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Smogon Simple Questions Thread
- Thread starter Quite Quiet
- Start date
lol @ calling PR "elites and their stooges". i have pr access because i laddered, got reqs, and voted 4 times. i know there are at least 200 other users in a same boat. shits really not that hard to get.
if you are really an active contributor to the community at large, you'll have a badge in a manner of weeks or months. from a cursory look at your posting history, i see you've started doing C&C for RBY. yes, this will get you a badge assuming good quality and/or volume of work and nonproblematic behavior in a relatively short period of time, and you, too, can join the smogon elite! getting your first badge has nothing to do with kissing ass and everything to do with contribution.
you mentioned proxy posting so i assume you're aware of how it works, but if you feel that you have a compelling opinion to add to a discussion, you can ask someone that has PR access to post for you. if they think your opinion is compelling and doesn't blatantly shit on people that have contributed 1000x the amount you have to "the community at large" (so, your post above), they'll post it. i don't know what the requirements are for PR access, but i would assume that if you repeatedly show that you have compelling contributions to discussions, you can ask a senior staff member for access.
as for your suggestion about the subforum mirroring PR but being open to unbadged members....if this is the type of post and you are the type of poster that is expected to populate this subforum, i would say that the subforum is going to be pretty uninformed and unproductive. so i wouldn't hold my breath on it happening.
Make it so if you get 4 infraction points for posting one-liners, you just get muted. If you have infraction points for other reasons, such as analysis plagiarism, or breaking forum rules, the normal ban still applies.
Why, what does that change from a regular ban?
I personally feel that a ban for simply making a short post is too harsh of a punishment.
Also eye-for-an-eye type stuff. If all of your infractions were caused by chatting, well... you cant chat. Also if you end up getting muted for the same reason 3 times in a row, on the third time, you get banned.
Also also, make it so forumbanned people can only see and post in ban appeals. You cant make an appeal if you cant use the forums.
Getting 4 infractions points from 4 separate infractions for example is not "a ban for simply making a short post".
Again, how's that a change from how it currently is?
Most get around this by making someone else proxy post for them, and I also don't know how XenForo limitations work if this is would even possible.
Got a flurry of questions.
What are points, how do you get them and why are they one of the main things displayed on a user's profile when 99% of the profiles I see have 0 points?
Also out of curiosity which user has the most points?
Why are banned profiles not available to view?
Lastly, how does one get negative amount of likes/reactions? I once saw a user with negative reactions.
What are points, how do you get them and why are they one of the main things displayed on a user's profile when 99% of the profiles I see have 0 points?
Also out of curiosity which user has the most points?
Why are banned profiles not available to view?
Lastly, how does one get negative amount of likes/reactions? I once saw a user with negative reactions.
They don't serve any purpose in terms of Smogon, they're a thing of XenForo that we don't utilize.
Don't know, the only ones that have them are those that got them just for the fun of it by some SS or gave them to themselves.
They're only accessible by mods and above, it's not something regular users need to interact with really.
That's done manually, usually to banned users trying to farm likes or something.
Lol @ typing this and following it up with a post as condescending as yours.
Since you've been through my posting history, I suppose you'll note that the analyses I've written have received absolutely no significant response whatsoever. Literally one person cared enough to give me feedback. Everything else got ignored, a pattern that persists across other RBY analyses, as many are/were languishing in that forum for months without anyone doing anything
When I research unearthed mechanics in RBY, my findings get ignored and buried for over 2 years before anyone seriously discusses them. When people do discuss them, discussion has unsurprisingly regressed to the point where I might as well have never done anything
Even when I try to help in other ways, like taking on the tedious task of linking every pokemon in the ORAS Ubers VR thread to their respective analysis, my post gets ignored (I think it's amusing that my bitchy edit hasn't been removed as of yet).
On the flipside, I've hosted tournaments regularly for years, written countless analyses and filled a prominent leadership role for the RBY community on Pokemon Perfect, which has only in recent years lost its mantle as the home of RBY. I daresay that you may scoff at claiming work contributed on another site as being substantial here, but that distinction means little in the context of the RBY community, which has historically migrated between various forums, often being active on several forums simultaneously. It's no exaggeration to say that RBY on Smogon would be nowhere close to what it is today without the work done on Pokemon Perfect, and I've played no small part in helping with that. I apologise for being the one to toot my own horn, but I really feel this is a reasonable representation of my role in the RBY community and accurately reflects the importance of non-Smogon communities within the broader RBY community.
Again, I understand that you may dismiss my past contributions to the community based on the fact that they mostly came on a site other than smogon, but as mentioned, that distinction is totally arbitrary in the context of RBY, and it's not as though I'm asking for a position of authority. I'm merely asking for a reasonable opportunity to voice my opinion, which I believe is of value based on my role within the community. When deprived of that opportunity (especially since contributing on Smogon consistently goes unrewarded and unrecognised), is it really any surprise that it feels like one's voice is being suppressed, and that views of smogon and its bureaucracy become antagonistic?
On a thread that will eventually link back to antagonism, your line of "just ladder for suspect tests, it's ez" is something that really doesn't apply, given that I predominantly play RBY- what suspect tests can I ladder for? I suppose I could pick up tiers for the sake of getting TC badges, but then am I really contributing to the community, or am I just whoring my way to PR access? It's a path I refuse to take, because I'm going to stick to what I'm truly passionate about- RBY (I also have a passing interest in ubers across all gens bar 1 and 4, for reference). The only thing resembling a suspect test that was held recently didn't even offer that kind of opportunity, instead it explicitly excluded prominent members of the community, which was nothing if not antagonistic.
Despite all that, I genuinely do want to contribute my insights and ideas to the competitive pokemon community, and I accept that despite my disgust for smogon, working with it is the only pragmatic possibility for this. Although my post was blatantly trolling, the core idea was a sincere suggestion, and people that well, know me better, know that I am still looking to develop ideas in a constructive manner, not merely to troll.
Obligatory note that this post is meaningless, since I know you're not the person to raise these concerns with, but man I just want to express it anyway
With all due respect Ortheore, I think you could channel this disillusionment into something greater. You've contributed a lot to PP, PO, and more, and nothing can take that away from you. However, you need to understand that like with every other site, you can't just automatically get status and such through others. It just doesn't work like that, and can even come off as entitled to an outsider. Badges are centred around the user's contribution to Smogon rather than the greater community. You may call it arbitrary based on how the RBY Community works, but once again, this is centred around Smogon.
So, why not contribute and earn the badges - which give PR access by the way - as you have elsewhere? Smogon isn't the greatest place for RBY tourneys, but you can host unofficial ones, there are whole channels for that. RBYPL and the Summer Seasonal are running right now thanks to the systems in place, they just need hosts. This is a common way people get Community Contributor. Why not apply and give it a shot?
In regards to the two analyses you've had going on for a while...have you asked the QC team to help? It's how my analyses got through so quickly, I asked Amaranth and FOMG every time I filled it out, then even went to the extent of asking specific GP members. Sure, this is certainly going out of your way, but if you're this frustrated it's not a bad idea.
Hell, if analyses aren't for you, why not try contributing RBY articles to The Flying Press? There's a submission section here, though be sure to read the details in the main forum. I've considered it myself, as I think there's a lot I could do, but since Disaster Area's ban there's not been much going on in terms of RBY content in articles. This is how you earn Smogon Media Contributor, I believe? I know there's one for it, anyway. There's even Facebook Spotlights which has channels for set submissions. This, once again, is a way to earn the badge, and you will very likely get Pre-Contributor on the way.
I'm throwing ideas at the wall here, but hey, I really want to see you become more established and I know you're capable of it. I know you can do it, you just need to swallow your pride and give it a shot. If you need help contributing, you can always message me and I can try to give advice.
I keep missing notifications for threads, so I could go a while without knowing those threads were updated. Is there a way to prevent this from happening?
afaik, it's a XenForo thing. One of the causes for that is someone made a post that was later deleted, so you were alerted, but the alert got removed and since you never responded to the alert, the forum doesn't bother notifying you till you check the new post(s).
Perhaps you can occassionally check your watched threads page to make sure you have not missed anything
I'm not asking for a badge or status though, and I don't want to go chasing them for their own sake. All I want is to get a chance to speak my mind without resorting to the excessive theatrics that I have previously. At present we don't even get that, despite the fact that smogon's role in rby was built off the backs of everyone who contributed at PP then migrated to smogon, only for smogon to bar many from any agency in decision-making processes that impacted their whole community. Sure, you could argue that technically decisions made on smogon technically only need to be adhered to within the context of smogon, but the notion of attempting to disagree with a smogon decision and make a competing ruleset as an external community is absurd in practice. The whole situation is absolutely disgusting and I sincerely believe we'd be better off fully investing in an alternative community.
That said, I had an idea that doesn't make me want to throw up. Maybe it will lead to something.
You can, and have, spoken your mind, and people like BKC and Troller have gotten PR access for special cases. Hell, some people have had their posts sent in by proxy if they're of particular notability, though apparently rules are a grey area there. You could well have gone through either of these processes by simply asking, but I'm not sure if you'd get PR access in this situation due to how they perceive you after the tirades you've gone on. There's nothing wrong with giving PR thoughts outside of the thread, people have done it before and some have even been cited in discussions before. You can make an impact outside of PR.
If you need a reason for Smogon not giving everyone PR access, you don't need to look much further than an average OU Suspect Test thread. Many posts get deleted or otherwise criticised for not being the most informed things in the world. Smogon is a much larger competitive community than something like PP or RBY 2k20. I understand your frustrations given the RBY Counter fiasco, hell, I even agree with you on most points. However, I think you need to rethink the scale here. It just isn't realistic.
I completely agree with you Plague von Karma and to be honest something bigger than smogon? is completely impossible now at least I think so. It's good that you want to steer that course but without that base and the RBY 2k20 Fiasco it will not be possible but I encourage you. Things are changing a lot and more in these Times where any point makes a difference
I might reply properly via pm when I have time because this is increasingly a 2 person convo that isn't the focus of the thread, but I absolutely dispute that you are free to speak your mind. Speaking your mind about PR matters as a non-PR poster is not a matter of taking part in a regular conversation in a different place, and there are severe limitations on how you're able to contribute your perspective, so it absolutely feels like you're deprived of a voice. Furthermore, at no point did I ask for PR to be fully open. The only thing I mentioned being fully open was a separate space that mirrors what goes on in PR- this mirrored space could theoretically have zero impact on PR, it would literally just be for everyone else to react and discuss among themselves. That's not to say I don't have issues with how PR access is granted, but I definitely am not advocating for it to be fully open
Also I asked for PR access prior to my recent dramas, and I think my case at the time was pretty bloody reasonable. No luck, and here we are.
sawamura I must've missed something- RBY2K20 fiasco? Is this something I missed bc I barely use Discord or something? Because I don't know anything about it
I'm not disputing that you may feel alienated or don't have a voice, but I'm talking about the here and the now. I personally doubt PR would change because there's so many ways to get access: be a council member (even RBY, Troller got there through it), contributing tourneys, stuff we've gone over before. All of these show that PR users have investment in the community and want to contribute to the growth of it.
Well, if you couldn't get PR access by asking, why not earn it like others have? It's a lot easier to get a badge than you would initially think, so long as you're dedicated. As mentioned before, Smogon centers contributions around itself. You've hosted tourneys on PP, why not try hosting some here? I know damn well there would be at least a few participants. You could start there, surely? If you just don't want to earn a badge through contributions, which can happen naturally by the way, you can always DM the OP as people do. Not to mention there's cases like ADV Sand Veil which have straight up had mirror posts in other areas, in this case Ruins of Alph. Give it a look, maybe you can even make something of it.
To note, I didn't even expect to get my Researcher badge, but within a week or two of reporting issues with the Stadium sim in a single thread it just kind of happened? I sometimes wonder if I even deserve it. Sure, this is personal experience, but maybe it'll help you.
It feels like you're missing the point. This suggestion does more than let one salty person sort of get into PR. This is a way for ANYONE to speak on PR matters without flooding PR with uninformed posts. I remember before and during the Cinderace retest, the metagame discussion thread was flooded with posts talking about whether or not Cinderace should be retested. The thread got locked several times because it wasn't the right place for that discussion, but for most of the users involved, there WAS no right place for that discussion.
At the time of Cinderace's initial ban, they literally said they were going to retest Cinderace later. The decision was already made, so discussion at that point was meaningless. I don't fault the thread being locked multiple times at all.
People can already discuss most, if not all PR topics in metagame discussion threads, that's the point of them a lot of the time. This has been the usual way of going about it a lot of the time, and hell, sometimes they get cited in discussions as I outlined before. And once again, sometimes threads like ADV Sand Veil are directly made for the express purpose of gauging non-PR opinion. If you make a subforum for less informed discussion, I mean, ok? I'm not disputing the creation of it, but what would it really change that doesn't already have places for it?
They said they would retest Ace, and then a ton of people thought "wait that's really dumb" and tried to talk the council out of it. Except apparently it was due to tiering policy and not a decision just made by the OU council, so there was nothing that could be done in that thread.
Sure, someone can PM a policy maker to say why the Ace situation was dumb, but that only reaches an audience of one unless they decide to share the PM with other policy makers. And even if you PM all the policy makers at once, non-policy-making badge holders aren't able to see your message and comment on it.
Tiering policy encourages threats to be retested after a quickban to ensure that it gets due process. There's plenty of documentation on it.
You can DM the council + policy makers if you really want to, there's always the option of adding multiple people. It's not necessarily an audience of one, and it ensures you get the most educated response possible.
Except most of the discussion was about how the old tiering policy and documentation doesn't work anymore because of DLC. Also,
Yes, the DLC does in fact exist and tiering policy has to adapt. It's far from non-functional as you're saying though, and it still needs to be followed while it exists in its current form. You may disagree, but that's how it went. I'm not sure what more you want here.
As for the DM thing, yes I did read that, and I still believe my point is valid. I don't see why having others see what could be misinformed is important regarding tiering policy. You can always voice it somewhere, people have made threads debating bans with extensive posts before with permission from council members. But, you can also contact the council and policy-makers with queries regarding tests. This is common procedure. There's historically been a lot of misinformation regarding how tiering policy works, and while that definitely could be fixed, I think the current system works fine? Once again, I'm not opposing it, I just don't see why it's necessary?
Anyway, I'm gonna leave this discussion as-is, since it's deviating far from the thread's purpose. If you want to converse further my DMs are always open.
I straight up cited areas where you can in my previous posts, but ok.
Once again, my DMs are open if you want to discuss this further.