-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Smogon University PO Statistics — April 2011
- Thread starter Rising_Dusk
- Start date
- Status
With such a large amount of Hp, leftovers is quite the big deal, and as for minimizing the effects of damage, Blissey after 3 turns is more efficient than chansey. They BOTH have access to Softboiled, one simply can't attack as well, and is better for the short term, and one can attack and is better for the long term.
If you need a pokemon to switch in, take a hit, and then pop it back out on their expected switch, go with chansey, but if you're looking for a wall, something with longevity, then you'll want Blissey. Leftovers; while on a single-turn basis might not seem like a big deal, adds up substantially very quickly.
If you need a pokemon to switch in, take a hit, and then pop it back out on their expected switch, go with chansey, but if you're looking for a wall, something with longevity, then you'll want Blissey. Leftovers; while on a single-turn basis might not seem like a big deal, adds up substantially very quickly.
A multiplier in both defenses is, for most intents and purposes, the same as an equivalent multiplier in HP.
So let's say Chansey has 640 HP. With Eviolite, she instead has the equivalent of 960 HP, or a 320 point boost. On the other hand, Leftovers heals 40 HP per turn. So if Chansey gets 8 turns of Leftovers recovery throughout the battle, she get an equivalent defensive bonus with both Leftovers and Eviolite, and if she gets more, Leftovers are better. And since she should get more turns of recovery than that if used properly, Leftovers are better. Right?
That was my mindset when I first figured all that out. However, it's wrong. There's the obvious fact that the substantial durability increase for the first few turns can be more important than the slight durability increase for the last few. But there's something even more solid than that.
Softboiled and Wish heal 50% of Chansey's HP. This is 50% of Chansey's overall durability, so the amount of durability restored is increased proportional to the boost in defenses from Eviolite (or, in this representation, the equivalent boost in HP). So with Eviolite, chansey essentially heals 160 more HP than without it. As a result, one Softboiled use is enough to make up for four turns of Leftovers recovery, and if Chansey is going to be surviving long enough for Leftovers to eclipse the initial durability boost from Eviolite, she's going to be using Softboiled enough to offset those turns and then some.
So as a result, either in the short term or the long term, Eviolite is just better.
So let's say Chansey has 640 HP. With Eviolite, she instead has the equivalent of 960 HP, or a 320 point boost. On the other hand, Leftovers heals 40 HP per turn. So if Chansey gets 8 turns of Leftovers recovery throughout the battle, she get an equivalent defensive bonus with both Leftovers and Eviolite, and if she gets more, Leftovers are better. And since she should get more turns of recovery than that if used properly, Leftovers are better. Right?
That was my mindset when I first figured all that out. However, it's wrong. There's the obvious fact that the substantial durability increase for the first few turns can be more important than the slight durability increase for the last few. But there's something even more solid than that.
Softboiled and Wish heal 50% of Chansey's HP. This is 50% of Chansey's overall durability, so the amount of durability restored is increased proportional to the boost in defenses from Eviolite (or, in this representation, the equivalent boost in HP). So with Eviolite, chansey essentially heals 160 more HP than without it. As a result, one Softboiled use is enough to make up for four turns of Leftovers recovery, and if Chansey is going to be surviving long enough for Leftovers to eclipse the initial durability boost from Eviolite, she's going to be using Softboiled enough to offset those turns and then some.
So as a result, either in the short term or the long term, Eviolite is just better.
Well i just calculated with simple calculating
Chansey take 15 % better in physical hit factoring lefties 9 %
Blissey take 2 % worse specially factoring leftied 4 % BETTER
For some confused players
50 % def boost = you take 3/4 of the damage youve got before
Example
A DD gyara use Waterfall LO to 252 def 236 HP chansey (without EVO)
It does 57 %
A DD gyara use the same move to same chansey with evo
it does 57 % - (1/4 x 57 = 14) = 42 %
Chansey take 15 % better in physical hit factoring lefties 9 %
Blissey take 2 % worse specially factoring leftied 4 % BETTER
For some confused players
50 % def boost = you take 3/4 of the damage youve got before
Example
A DD gyara use Waterfall LO to 252 def 236 HP chansey (without EVO)
It does 57 %
A DD gyara use the same move to same chansey with evo
it does 57 % - (1/4 x 57 = 14) = 42 %
Actually, 50% boost in defense makes you take 2/3 damage. (1/1.5)
Damage Calc said:
Damage Calc said:
That's 2/3 damage, not 3/4. Besides, if you don't take into account the rounding (which can make a pretty big differences sometimes) the damage formula is basically [Level/5*2+2]/50*Basepower*attack/defense*modifiers. So you have damage=x/defense and damage=x/(defense*1.5). Hence damage is reduce to 1/1.5 (2/3) with a +1 boost.
I guess it's because the OU metagame apparently isn't right for Espeon, and Espeon might counter some of the unreleased stuff well? Also, Dream World is more of a "just for fun" thing rather than jockeying for power on Smogon, so maybe people just play less conservatively there and want to try more stuff.
For the people arguing Blissey vs Chansey, the calculations are wrong for every one I have seen on this page because Chansey does not recieve the 1.5 times boost. Happiny is the base form, so Chansey gets 1.3, which may or may not change the argument, I am too lazy to find a damage calculator for Gen V.
This is a mistake that was made by someone doing the calculations for the item. In reality, it's a x1.5 boost for all NFE Pokemon.
It's unbelievable that it's been able to persist for this long. Don't let the mistake spread any further.
Swampert>Terrakion in Ubers.
Swampert>Deoxys-S in OU.
What an intelligent group we are!
Swampert>Deoxys-S in OU.
What an intelligent group we are!
Soo... I dunno if this has been asked here already (10 pages at 40 posts per page = lol tl;dr), but when can we expect detailed statistics like those from last gen (giving percentages on natures, movesets, items, ev spreads, etc)?
I believe next month. Use SQSA next time.
It's the same way on Wifi. I don't recall fighting a Speed Deoxys in any of my 35 or so BW Wifi battles. (Yes, Wifi is slower paced; I have to breed and level grind my Pokemon). I write down all teams, but not the user names of the owners for each team. A lot of people use legit hacks; you'd think more of them would hack a Pokemon that gives reliable fast dual screens. . .
Yes, Swampert is occasionally seen on Wifi, though there is quite a competition for bulky Waters (even if Swampert is more like a bulky Ground). The most popular one there seems to be Vaporeon.
I haven't seen that many dedicated weather teams either, and non-weather seems to be far more common in that setting, based on my mediocre data.
Just a brief perspective from the non-simulator angle. :)
Equally possible people don't hack at all, too.
Which would put a slight kibosh on getting event things like Deoxys.
Standard Espeon lacks Baton Pass due to it being a Pre-evo move. That means it has no way to escape Pursuit & can't BP Calm Mind boosts.
DW Eevee is being released on May 25th (This Wednesday) and from the looks of it, Pokemon Cafe is just like the Dream World Courses meaning there should be Female Eevee so the Egg moves (notably Wish & Yawn) should be legal as well.
So yeah, expect Espeon & Vaporeon's usage to increase dramatically next week. (Or whenever Smogon implements DW Eevee into OU...they're kinda slow on that.)
The lack of Deoxys-D in top 20 is confuseing me.....also its ok to ban ban Polly but not TTar?
Gen 4 mentality FTL....
Gen 4 mentality FTL....
Tyranitar is just one of those Pokemon that is hard to place. Those stats and that ability on any other Pokemon, yeah, that would be ban material. But Tyranitar's typing is what keeps it at bay. Rock/Dark is not exactly a 5-star typing. Weakness to some of the most common types; Fighting, Ground, Bug, Steel, Water, & Grass, only made up for by resisting some of the least common types in the game; Normal, Flying, Poison, Ghost, & Dark, with an immunity to Psychic.
Banning Tyranitar wouldn't exactly solve much anyway as Hippowdon is still around to put up Sand Storm. Hell, as long as Excadrill exists, people would even use Hippopotas if Hippowdon somehow got the shaft. Tyranitar is scarcely the problem, hell Sand Stream isn't even the problem.
The problem with Sand is that a 405 Attack power Steel/Ground-type Pokemon with Swords Dance and perfect Type coverage becomes faster than Deoxys-S when Sand Stream is active.
Aside from Garchomp, that's about the biggest change to Sand in 2 Gens.
Even if Excadrill isn't #1 on the statistics, you have to admit that on & even off paper, Excadrill defines broken.
But back on topic, Politoed makes the #1 Pokemon damn near impossible to OHKO & makes an already strong type of Pokemon even stronger. So yes, Politoed is kind of ban-able but, in reality, he's more of just a scapegoat for Ferrothorn is what I've come to realize. It's basically this:
"We don't don't want to ban Ferrothorn because we like using him, even if he has completely centered the metagame around himself making a lot of Pokemon completely nonviable."
That right there is why Ferrothorn will never be banned even though he fits the ban criteria even more than Excadrill and why people will always bitch about Rain. This is all coming from someone that uses Sun Teams. I'm giving Rain a pass and coming after the real issues to the rest of the metagame.
- Status