Smogon University PO Statistics — October 2011

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LucaroarkZ said:
252 +1 Atk Dragonite Fire Punch vs 252 HP/252 Def Skarmory: 47.31% - 55.69%
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The standard Skarmory in the analysis uses an EV spread of 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spe. This allows it to outspeed max Speed+ Wobbuffet, who could Encore Skarmory.

Also, does this calculation assume that Skarmory runs a Defense-boosting nature, like Impish (+Def, -SpA)?
 
orbpom123 said:
I know, not trying to argue. Just thought its sad garchomp is pretty much owned in ubers.
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Garchomp is still very viable in Ubers. It is one of the best Scarfers in the tier, and its SubSD or Sub + 3 Attacks are very deadly, due to it being just above most of the Ubers in the speed tiers.
 
LucaroarkZ said:
To everyone saying Dragonite can get past Skarmory guaranteed:

252 +1 Atk Dragonite Fire Punch vs 252 HP/252 Def Skarmory: 47.31% - 55.69% (this is with Adamant, do the calc yourself if you don't believe me)

4 SpAtk Life Orb Salamence Fire Blast vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Skarmory: 98.2% - 115.57%

Dragonite can get past Skarmory? My ass. That shit's getting hit by a Whirlwind.
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If you whirlwind something you can't roost on, and D-night gets a DD up again? He can bust through you, he might not do it in one sitting, but he can. There is also the 65 million other things he does better then Salamance. I will leave explaining this too PK Gaming, as he would do a much better job then me.
 
Four Moveslot syndrome.

Dragonite simply can't afford to run a special attack with having DD, Outrage or Dragon Claw, and Roost or Extremespeed taking up the other three slots. It needs the extra physically offensive coverage, even if it does mean losing to Skarmory.

Losing to just Skarm is much better than losing to many, many more things just to beat Skarm.
 
Lesser Smaug said:
The standard Skarmory in the analysis uses an EV spread of 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spe. This allows it to outspeed max Speed+ Wobbuffet, who could Encore Skarmory.

Also, does this calculation assume that Skarmory runs a Defense-boosting nature, like Impish (+Def, -SpA)?
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I ran the calc with Impish.

Also, Salamence can get away with using Life Orb; Dragonite can't.
 
Lesser Smaug said:
Let's not be too hasty in thinking that Dragonite runs only physical attacks. It has an excruciatingly versatile special movepool as well, and can use Fire Blast and Thunderbolt to scare off and / or reduce to scrap the standard Skarmory.

Dragonite can defeat the flying metal menace with Fire Blast from the Mixed Attacker set, or Thunder from the Rain Tank set.
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"Excruciatingly versatile"? Weird word choice.


Anyway, while this is true, where are you going to fit it in? If you're using a DD set, are you going to forego Roost or Extremespeed or Earthquake for Fire Blast? And I'm not really sure why you'd use Thunderbolt unless you're using some extremely bizarre specs set.
 
Machamp is third in best Ubers sweepers. That is somewhat funny.
Also, Octillerry as top OU sweeper seems kinda weird as many people abuse DDnite and SD Scizor effectively.
 
reni said:
Machamp is third in best Ubers sweepers. That is somewhat funny.
Also, Octillerry as top OU sweeper seems kinda weird as many people abuse DDnite and SD Scizor effectively.
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As said about a bajillion times, the stats are hilariously off. It was fun lolzing at them for a while, but its a bit old now :/
 
Octillery was only due to someone Moody trolling. I doubt anyone could make a Baton Pass chain THAT effective.

Somebody was surprised that Dugtrio was OU range. Its most common set takes out every weather starter save Politoed and Hippowdon, and it rapes Heatran hardcore. Scizor can U-turn on the switch, send out Dugtrio to smoke Heatran, and have fun from there.

On top of that, Dugtrio smokes most Rock-types and many Steel-types. The only thing keeping it from climbing higher is Choice Scarf.
 
waterwarrior said:
As said about a bajillion times, the stats are hilariously off. It was fun lolzing at them for a while, but its a bit old now :/
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Try these on for size. I looked at a different metric: odds of getting at least one KO in a given battle.

Note that Octillery's still number 1. That's not wrong. That just tells you how broken Moody is. Listed in the last column is the avg. number of KOs per sweep, with standard deviation.

Code: 
 + ---- + --------------- + ------ + ------- + ------- + --------- + 
 | Rank | Pokemon         | Usage  | Percent | KO %    | KOs/sweep | 
 + ---- + --------------- + ------ + ------- + ------- + --------- + 
 | 1    | Octillery       | 459    |  0.119% | 69.027% | 1.95±1.09 | 
 | 2    | Stoutland       | 1725   |  0.447% | 63.754% | 1.71±0.93 | 
 | 3    | Kyurem          | 4200   |  1.089% | 63.471% | 1.69±0.93 | 
 | 4    | Haxorus         | 35168  |  9.119% | 61.038% | 1.68±0.97 | 
 | 5    | Mightyena       | 285    |  0.074% | 60.638% | 1.69±0.97 | 
 | 6    | Terrakion       | 38216  |  9.909% | 60.448% | 1.63±0.88 | 
 | 7    | Excadrill       | 12602  |  3.268% | 59.544% | 1.72±1.00 | 
 | 8    | Azumarill       | 4402   |  1.141% | 59.256% | 1.56±0.82 | 
 | 9    | Tornadus        | 18813  |  4.878% | 58.431% | 1.69±0.98 | 
 | 10   | Medicham        | 1451   |  0.376% | 58.374% | 1.59±0.85 | 
 | 11   | Alakazam        | 12724  |  3.299% | 58.271% | 1.65±0.93 | 
 | 12   | Lucario         | 29145  |  7.557% | 58.188% | 1.58±0.89 | 
 | 13   | Sunflora        | 206    |  0.053% | 58.000% | 1.34±0.62 | 
 | 14   | Sharpedo        | 3266   |  0.847% | 57.943% | 1.60±0.85 | 
 | 15   | Entei           | 429    |  0.111% | 57.346% | 1.47±0.79 | 
 | 16   | Latios          | 48078  | 12.466% | 57.162% | 1.55±0.83 | 
 | 17   | Hydreigon       | 19412  |  5.033% | 56.171% | 1.58±0.86 | 
 | 18   | Weavile         | 6147   |  1.594% | 55.900% | 1.55±0.87 | 
 | 19   | Victini         | 7683   |  1.992% | 55.649% | 1.48±0.78 | 
 | 20   | Heracross       | 3708   |  0.961% | 55.647% | 1.54±0.82 | 
 | 21   | Dragonite       | 92954  | 24.102% | 55.371% | 1.66±0.98 | 
 | 22   | Mamoswine       | 12156  |  3.152% | 55.265% | 1.54±0.82 | 
 | 23   | Nidoking        | 6555   |  1.700% | 55.162% | 1.76±1.12 | 
 | 24   | Zweilous        | 169    |  0.044% | 54.938% | 1.44±0.75 | 
 | 25   | Honchkrow       | 2274   |  0.590% | 54.636% | 1.52±0.80 | 
 | 26   | Machamp         | 9628   |  2.496% | 54.366% | 1.47±0.75 | 
 | 27   | Zoroark         | 6200   |  1.608% | 54.301% | 1.46±0.76 | 
 | 28   | Sawsbuck        | 5189   |  1.345% | 54.254% | 1.59±0.87 | 
 | 29   | Kingdra         | 8528   |  2.211% | 54.147% | 1.65±0.94 | 
 | 30   | Conkeldurr      | 30419  |  7.887% | 54.041% | 1.60±0.90 | 
 + ---- + --------------- + ------ + ------- + ------- + --------- +
 
Well, while not much changed, gotta say it is quite a bit more accurate now :)

Also, when did the server's banlist go partially down for someone to use Moody Octillery? Did someone just forget to implement it and someone saw through?
 
Quick Note: I was not saying that Dragonite should find room for special attacks. I was conveying that you simply cannot assume that all Dragonite carry physical attacks. Just because all of the Dragonite you see have physical attacks does not mean you can mindlessly bring in your Steel-type and assume that Dragonite will be unable to break through it.

LucaroarkZ said:
Also, Salamence can get away with using Life Orb; Dragonite can't.
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Dragonite can use Roost. It usually doesn't have the time to, but it can hold a Life Orb and run Roost to re-activate Multiscale, which usually activates before Dragonite can even fire off an attack.

The mentality that Life Orb does not fit with Multiscale isn't generally true.
 
waterwarrior said:
Also, when did the server's banlist go partially down for someone to use Moody Octillery? Did someone just forget to implement it and someone saw through?
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The scripts have had some issues for a while, especially the ones banning abilities. Drizzle+SwSw gets through every now and again (if you see it, report it to a mod). The only way I actually managed to ban Moody was by making it an "unreleased dream world ability" (did the same with Drought on Vulpix).
 
Antar said:
Code: 
 + ---- + --------------- + ------ + ------- + ------- + --------- + 
 | Rank | Pokemon         | Usage  | Percent | KO %    | KOs/sweep | 
 + ---- + --------------- + ------ + ------- + ------- + --------- + 
 | 13   | Sunflora        | 206    |  0.053% | 58.000% | 1.34±0.62 |
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Evidently Octillery wasn't the only thing people were trolling with.
 
In November's stats Terrakion will be in the top 5 for sure. I've seen more and more of Dragonite in HO and Stall teams, those are the perfect places for him to abuse Multiscale.
 
Lesser Smaug said:
Quick Note: I was not saying that Dragonite should find room for special attacks. I was conveying that you simply cannot assume that all Dragonite carry physical attacks. Just because all of the Dragonite you see have physical attacks does not mean you can mindlessly bring in your Steel-type and assume that Dragonite will be unable to break through it.



Dragonite can use Roost. It usually doesn't have the time to, but it can hold a Life Orb and run Roost to re-activate Multiscale, which usually activates before Dragonite can even fire off an attack.

The mentality that Life Orb does not fit with Multiscale isn't generally true.
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Well what happens when you use Outrage, you take Life Orb recoil, and then Mamoswine comes in? You die, that's what.

At that point you're basically just using Dragonite as an inferior Salamence.

Either way, that's what I'm trying to say. Salamence doesn't have to worry about "OH MULTISCALE WAH WAH WAH" and using Life Orb on it isn't a really stupid thing to do like it is on Dragonite.
 
LucaroarkZ said:
Well what happens when you use Outrage, you take Life Orb recoil, and then Mamoswine comes in? You die, that's what.

At that point you're basically just using Dragonite as an inferior Salamence.

Either way, that's what I'm trying to say. Salamence doesn't have to worry about "OH MULTISCALE WAH WAH WAH" and using Life Orb on it isn't a really stupid thing to do like it is on Dragonite.
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or point being??????? Salamance dies there as well....tossing around a play, that both the pokemon die in proves nothing at all. Also, you assuming an offensive spread on D-night. I presonally prefer a bulky one which allows easier setup, which btw, if I do run LO, mamo still can't oko.

mamo-adamant-choice band 252 attack, 252 speed vs d-night 252 hp. 252 defense- 81.9% max, which means, even with life orb damage I can live.
I deal 98% back, which means if I have rocks ups you lose mamo, this of course assumes you don't have rocks up, but considering you were speaking of LO breaking multi-scales this is safe beat me thinks. Also you forget, D-night doesn't have to run outrage :D do to being much much better at getting up more then 1 DD then salamance, he can afford to run D-claw, which means I can get away from your mamo!
 
pharaohcalvin said:
or point being??????? Salamance dies there as well....tossing around a play, that both the pokemon die in proves nothing at all. Also, you assuming an offensive spread on D-night. I presonally prefer a bulky one which allows easier setup, which btw, if I do run LO, mamo still can't oko.

mamo-adamant-choice band 252 attack, 252 speed vs d-night 252 hp. 252 defense- 81.9% max, which means, even with life orb damage I can live.
I deal 98% back, which means if I have rocks ups you lose mamo, this of course assumes you don't have rocks up, but considering you were speaking of LO breaking multi-scales this is safe beat me thinks. Also you forget, D-night doesn't have to run outrage :D do to being much much better at getting up more then 1 DD then salamance, he can afford to run D-claw, which means I can get away from your mamo!
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Did you run that calc from full health on Dragonite? That looks like a Multiscale calc to me, considering that LO Weavile's Ice Shard does more than 100% to Dragonite without Multiscale. And yes, I'm assuming an offensive spread on Dragonite because that's the only Dragonite that exists nowadays bar rain abuser.

Also, you could use the "It doesn't have to use Outrage" argument for just about any dragon, really. Also, if you don't think arguing with Dragonite vs. Salamence is valid, then Haxorus can also get more than 1 Dragon Dance with dual screens support, which just about every Haxorus has nowadays (it doesn't even need Multiscale to do it!)
 
That was done with an inner focus d-night... :/ I didn't bother even swapping the ability. and I was using a defensive spread (As I was comparing it too my D-night I use), and no it isn't only offensive ones. Also I can use the Dragon Claw, because unlike salamance, d-night can afford to get the extra dds up do to multi=scales, which means he does not miss out on any okoes. As far as haxorus goes, now think how many dd dances d-night can get up with those screens! Will will stay Hax does have its niche, but salamance is just outclassed ^^
 
pharaohcalvin said:
That was done with an inner focus d-night... :/ I didn't bother even swapping the ability. and I was using a defensive spread (As I was comparing it too my D-night I use), and no it isn't only offensive ones. Also I can use the Dragon Claw, because unlike salamance, d-night can afford to get the extra dds up do to multi=scales, which means he does not miss out on any okoes. As far as haxorus goes, now think how many dd dances d-night can get up with those screens! Will will stay Hax does have its niche, but salamance is just outclassed ^^
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You obviously didn't see the calc I did. Dragonite is barely 2HKOing Skarmory with a +1 Fire Punch; not like a +2 Fire Punch will be a whole lot different. On the other hand, Salamence has a high chance to OHKO with Fire Blast.

Also, you have no idea how unlikely it is to get 2 Dragon Dances without screens, even with Dragonite.

If Salamence were "completely outclassed", it would be UU. Alas, it isn't.
 
I find it really funny that the top five Mons that are most used can be used on a team together.

So....

Nite, Rotom W, Scizor, Toed and Ferro can pretty much be used in every Rain team.
 
Things that are completely outclassed, can be kept in by bad players, look at Electivire in gen 4 OU. In all honestly the only thing Salamance has going for it is the ability to take down Skar easier, which isn't all that much. And he would be BL if he dropped out of OU, because he sure wouldn't be UU for long.
 
Mixmence and 3 atk mence still outclasses dragonite in immediate power. Besides after stealth rock dmg nite is just a slower, albiet bulkier version of mence.
 
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