Hey RU, leave pinsir alone, mmmk? In NU at the moment we're undergoing a rebuild where we're trying to get the tier back to BW2 as close as possible. We need Pinsir to make that possible.
-thanks
-thanks
-
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Smogon Usage-Based Tier Update: February 2015 (See Post 222 for April Quick Rises/Drops)
- Thread starter Antar
- Start date
- Status
On the other hand pinsir is now a lord in tier shift
Mega Pinsir still only gets a +5 in all of it's stats except for HP which is +10, as BL megas are given the UU stat boost
Antar, Molk, atomicllamas, Raseri, and Zebraiken I demand you all put a blacklist on Claydol rising until at least when the new games come out| 58 | Claydol | 3.975% |
We might get it back just as quickly as we got rid of it
What surprised me is that Tyranitar is getting more usage than both Charizard and Metagross. Huh.
19.812% (3rd place)
12.794% (13th place) >
10.885% (17th place)
10.041% (19th place)
And Sableye, one of the S-rank Pokes, gets a usage of....
6.391% (30th place)
lol
#KeldeoForUbers
And Sableye, one of the S-rank Pokes, gets a usage of....
lol
#KeldeoForUbers
Kind of makes sense though.
Serperior could break through any special wall in UU that didn't resist grass- Florges, Umbreon, even Blissey couldn't stop it. It destroyed pretty much every water type in the tier. Every team had to run something to deal with it: Goodra or Amoonguss, or something that can revenge kill it like Crobat, or Mega Aero/Pidgeot, or else it would screw you over. (And it can even get around Crobat by using Glare on the switch.)
Serperior definetely has checks and counters, but then again, so did Mega Gardevoir and Zygarde and Thundurus-T. That didn't stop them from being banned.
And its usage in OU isn't even that bad either:
42 | Serperior | 4.419
Zapdos can check Landorus-I, Birdspam teams, Lopunny, and many other mons. It's only use isn't defog.
Why is it that we lose Virizion and my camel friend, but the broken Gatr and Super Ty stay in the tier?
Some thoughts on NU usage:
| 53 | Prinplup | 3.675% - counter/check to Typlosion and Feraligatr (if not set up) as well as being a great defogger.
| 186 | Octillery | 0.132% |:(
| 136 | Zweilous | 0.340% | - needs waaay more usage, it's a great counter/check to some of the best threats in the meta that include, Typlosion, Gatr (if not set up), Xatu and others.
| 85 | Aurorus | 0.983% | - I thought that more people would get new toy syndrome with snow warning coming out.
| 133 | Rotom-Frost | 0.374% | - Basically goes along with Aurorus.
| 103 | Floatzel | 0.720% | - Water veil is an amazing ability that makes bulk up Floatzal a great threat and it needs to be used more because people need something for after Gatr leaves.
| 106 | Servine | 0.642% | - See Aurorus
| 59 | Klinklang | 3.078% | - Brilliant set up mon that is arguably the best steel type in the tier after steelix has left, but the usage isn't as terrible as Zweilous.
| 31 | Pyroar | 6.126% | - Why is this piece of garbage used so much when Typlosion exists? At least Floatzel has a niche in water veil.
| 12 | Mantine | 11.518% | - I haven't used mantine much personally, but is this basically only because of being a Typlosion check?
| 61 | Jynx | 2.741% | - Jynx is a versatile offensive threat that even gets a sleeping move to help it set up and should definetely be used more.
Some thoughts on NU usage:
| 53 | Prinplup | 3.675% - counter/check to Typlosion and Feraligatr (if not set up) as well as being a great defogger.
| 186 | Octillery | 0.132% |:(
| 136 | Zweilous | 0.340% | - needs waaay more usage, it's a great counter/check to some of the best threats in the meta that include, Typlosion, Gatr (if not set up), Xatu and others.
| 85 | Aurorus | 0.983% | - I thought that more people would get new toy syndrome with snow warning coming out.
| 133 | Rotom-Frost | 0.374% | - Basically goes along with Aurorus.
| 103 | Floatzel | 0.720% | - Water veil is an amazing ability that makes bulk up Floatzal a great threat and it needs to be used more because people need something for after Gatr leaves.
| 106 | Servine | 0.642% | - See Aurorus
| 59 | Klinklang | 3.078% | - Brilliant set up mon that is arguably the best steel type in the tier after steelix has left, but the usage isn't as terrible as Zweilous.
| 31 | Pyroar | 6.126% | - Why is this piece of garbage used so much when Typlosion exists? At least Floatzel has a niche in water veil.
| 12 | Mantine | 11.518% | - I haven't used mantine much personally, but is this basically only because of being a Typlosion check?
| 61 | Jynx | 2.741% | - Jynx is a versatile offensive threat that even gets a sleeping move to help it set up and should definetely be used more.
Last edited:
Gonna shamelessly steal these ideas next time I delve back into NU.
Honestly if Gatr and Typlosion are still there, than you should focus on using those over Pyroar/Floatzel, but my other suggestions are pretty good too.
Ferraligatr was still a decent theat in the tier before SF that was honestly an A rank mon, and I might do calcs later, but I want to focus on Typlosion. Specs Eruption can basically nuke everything in the tier that ISN'T IMMUNE to it and becomes even more broken if it switches in on the right move, or you could run blaze and have a move that hits harder than full power eruption when you are under 33% HP. Lemme show you some calcs.
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Extrasensory vs. 0 HP / 128 SpD Hariyama: 290-342 (67.5 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Hidden Power Grass vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Prinplup: 146-172 (44.1 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 40 SpD Mesprit: 298-352 (99 - 116.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Flash Fire Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Typhlosion: 279-328 (93.9 - 110.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (blaze over FF)
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Audino: 265-313 (64.6 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Blaze Typhlosion Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Audino: 291-343 (70.9 - 83.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 160 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Kangaskhan: 261-307 (66.7 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Blaze Typhlosion Fire Blast vs. 160 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Kangaskhan: 288-339 (73.6 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Garbodor: 382-451 (104.9 - 123.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Blaze Typhlosion Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Malamar: 309-364 (82.1 - 96.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mismagius: 312-367 (96.2 - 113.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Eviolite Rhydon: 292-348 (70.5 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Hidden Power Grass vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Samurott: 234-276 (70.6 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Blaze Typhlosion Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Samurott: 239-282 (72.2 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Hidden Power Grass vs. 200 HP / 56 SpD Seismitoad: 408-484 (101.7 - 120.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Xatu: 292-345 (87.4 - 103.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Blaze Typhlosion Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Xatu: 322-379 (96.4 - 113.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Hidden Power Grass vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Prinplup: 146-172 (44.1 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 40 SpD Mesprit: 298-352 (99 - 116.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Flash Fire Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Typhlosion: 279-328 (93.9 - 110.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (blaze over FF)
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Audino: 265-313 (64.6 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Blaze Typhlosion Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Audino: 291-343 (70.9 - 83.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 160 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Kangaskhan: 261-307 (66.7 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Blaze Typhlosion Fire Blast vs. 160 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Kangaskhan: 288-339 (73.6 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Garbodor: 382-451 (104.9 - 123.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Blaze Typhlosion Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Malamar: 309-364 (82.1 - 96.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mismagius: 312-367 (96.2 - 113.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Eviolite Rhydon: 292-348 (70.5 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Hidden Power Grass vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Samurott: 234-276 (70.6 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Blaze Typhlosion Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Samurott: 239-282 (72.2 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Hidden Power Grass vs. 200 HP / 56 SpD Seismitoad: 408-484 (101.7 - 120.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Xatu: 292-345 (87.4 - 103.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Blaze Typhlosion Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Xatu: 322-379 (96.4 - 113.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
Better speed, secondary STAB, and Taunt are all reasons to use this over Typhlosion, and those are much better niches than Floatzel's, as Gatr can just run Lum Berry if your that scared of status.
The thing is Pokemon need to move up to a different tier by their usage in said tier, Typhlosion is garbage in RU, and probably will never move up there unless it is suspected and banned to BL3.
Though Gatr is more reasonable, it just didn't get enough usage in RU.
The speed doesn't really matter because there aren't really any important mons that pyroar outspeeds over Typlosion. The secondary STAB of normal isn't very useful when Typlosion has super effective coverage against the things that resist its primary STAB in the tier, so that isn't a very good argument either. Typlosion will also probably gain usage in ru with Moltres gone and its new toy that people want to try out. Taunt may be a half decent option on Pyroar, but the meta is so offensive right now that the only things that taunt stops are set-up sweepers, and the turn that pyroar takes to switch in is all the time that they need to become faster than it and kill it anyways. (see Feraligatr)
Typhlosion actually just got blacklisted to E Rank in the RU viability rankings, sure it will get usage, but not near enough to raise(hopefully). The speed is handy to outspeed things like Timid Mismagius, and being scarf means you outspeed everything up to +2 Fraxure, which hits 512 speed, while Scarf Pyroar hits 513. The additional STAB is good for hitting Fire resists harder as a super effective Hidden Power, this is useful against things like bulky water types, opposing fire types, and Dragons, be them a bit rare. And Taunt makes you a cool anti-lead, stopping Pokemon from setting up rocks on you, set-up sweepers, and just generally being annoying to walls.
Antar said:
Sorry if you already explained that, but how these ratio were calculated ? I mean why aren't they the same, they didn't long the same amount of time ?
UU started their suspect 10 days ago, while RU and NU started it 3 weeks ago, so the suspect ladder was a bigger part of the total ladder in february for NU and RU.
Still RU and NU Standard don't have the same weight vs their respective suspects
I tried to weight the stats such that each battle had roughly equal contribution. So I took the number of non-suspect battles in February and compared that to the number of suspect battles in February.
Hey Antar, thanks for generating the stats n_n
You said you weighted RU standard 7:5 vs RU suspect, yet RU suspect had roughly 43000 games, and RU standard had only ~31000 games. Doesn't this mean RU Standard should have been weighted 5:7 against RU suspect? Was your post just a typo, or am I doing my math wrong or something? Thanks in advance for the answer.
edit: doing some ~math~ your stats are weighted using the 7:5 weighting (the incorrect one as far as I can tell), using the 5:7 weighting (standard:suspect) Qwilfish also saw enough usage to quick rise to RU (7.1% usage). Another significant change is that Mega Camerupt / Camerupt should still be NU (6.5% usage).
edit2: checked just cause, your other weighting's seem to be right.
Last edited:
atomicllamas, good catch. Sorry, folks. I screwed the pooch on that one. Here's the updated combined RU usage, and, as atomicllamas said, Qwilfish is now RU while Camerupt is still NU.
Qwilfish moved from NU to RU
Steelix moved from NU to RU
Virizion moved from NU to RU
Pinsir moved from UU to RU
Camerupt stayed in NU
Code:
Combined usage for RU
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Percent |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| 1 | Cresselia | 19.062% |
| 2 | Doublade | 18.949% |
| 3 | Cobalion | 17.851% |
| 4 | Pangoro | 17.638% |
| 5 | Moltres | 15.843% |
| 6 | Tyrantrum | 15.175% |
| 7 | Hitmonlee | 14.683% |
| 8 | Meloetta | 14.568% |
| 9 | Rhyperior | 14.064% |
| 10 | Emboar | 13.977% |
| 11 | Slowking | 13.854% |
| 12 | Golbat | 13.598% |
| 13 | Alomomola | 13.456% |
| 14 | Drapion | 12.975% |
| 15 | Amoonguss | 12.640% |
| 16 | Steelix | 12.309% |
| 17 | Jolteon | 11.583% |
| 18 | Abomasnow | 9.826% |
| 19 | Virizion | 9.541% |
| 20 | Glalie | 9.296% |
| 21 | Rotom-Mow | 8.709% |
| 22 | Druddigon | 8.690% |
| 23 | Clawitzer | 8.467% |
| 24 | Slurpuff | 8.377% |
| 25 | Houndoom | 8.369% |
| 26 | Bronzong | 7.948% |
| 27 | Whimsicott | 7.805% |
| 28 | Durant | 7.779% |
| 29 | Hitmontop | 7.516% |
| 30 | Eelektross | 7.472% |
| 31 | Exploud | 7.300% |
| 32 | Qwilfish | 7.097% |
| 33 | Aromatisse | 7.080% |
| 34 | Camerupt | 6.519% |
| 35 | Registeel | 6.508% |
| 36 | Escavalier | 6.213% |
| 37 | Ambipom | 6.189% |
| 38 | Tangrowth | 6.142% |
| 39 | Delphox | 6.100% |
| 40 | Reuniclus | 6.084% |
| 41 | Banette | 6.059% |
| 42 | Braviary | 5.675% |
| 43 | Feraligatr | 5.631% |
| 44 | Fletchinder | 5.607% |
| 45 | Heliolisk | 5.279% |
| 46 | Jellicent | 5.151% |
| 47 | Skuntank | 5.016% |
| 48 | Omastar | 4.947% |
| 49 | Dugtrio | 4.929% |
| 50 | Kabutops | 4.839% |
| 51 | Medicham | 4.750% |
| 52 | Quagsire | 4.645% |
| 53 | Magneton | 4.612% |
| 54 | Spiritomb | 4.549% |
| 55 | Cinccino | 4.300% |
| 56 | Shiftry | 4.180% |
| 57 | Cofagrigus | 4.123% |
| 58 | Lanturn | 3.831% |
| 59 | Gastrodon | 3.613% |
| 60 | Claydol | 3.522% |
| 61 | Hitmonchan | 3.346% |
| 62 | Sigilyph | 2.930% |
| 63 | Mesprit | 2.907% |
| 64 | Accelgor | 2.716% |
| 65 | Seismitoad | 2.115% |
| 66 | Audino | 2.096% |
| 67 | Uxie | 1.941% |
| 68 | Crustle | 1.801% |
| 69 | Mawile | 1.651% |
| 70 | Gurdurr | 1.590% |
| 71 | Weezing | 1.531% |
| 72 | Pidgeot | 1.523% |
| 73 | Xatu | 1.385% |
| 74 | Bouffalant | 1.236% |
| 75 | Granbull | 1.226% |
| 76 | Archeops | 1.186% |
| 77 | Mismagius | 1.120% |
| 78 | Liepard | 1.079% |
| 79 | Lickilicky | 1.060% |
| 80 | Sawk | 1.036% |
| 81 | Regirock | 1.006% |
| 82 | Togetic | 0.995% |
| 83 | Combusken | 0.994% |
| 84 | Gligar | 0.992% |
| 85 | Zangoose | 0.990% |
| 86 | Sandslash | 0.980% |
| 87 | Dragalge | 0.927% |
| 88 | Sceptile | 0.917% |
| 89 | Golurk | 0.866% |
| 90 | Typhlosion | 0.835% |
| 91 | Cryogonal | 0.818% |
| 92 | Vivillon | 0.814% |
| 93 | Garbodor | 0.806% |
| 94 | Swellow | 0.762% |
| 95 | Gorebyss | 0.759% |
| 96 | Leavanny | 0.749% |
| 97 | Serperior | 0.735% |
| 98 | Kricketune | 0.720% |
| 99 | Torkoal | 0.694% |
| 100 | Lilligant | 0.690% |
| 101 | Magmortar | 0.673% |
| 102 | Cacturne | 0.651% |
| 103 | Pyroar | 0.579% |
| 104 | Malamar | 0.579% |
| 105 | Miltank | 0.566% |
| 106 | Electivire | 0.493% |
| 107 | Ferroseed | 0.483% |
| 108 | Mantine | 0.482% |
| 109 | Rhydon | 0.457% |
| 110 | Scyther | 0.445% |
| 111 | Ludicolo | 0.430% |
| 112 | Kecleon | 0.426% |
| 113 | Roselia | 0.423% |
| 114 | Primeape | 0.390% |
| 115 | Vileplume | 0.384% |
| 116 | Ariados | 0.378% |
| 117 | Cradily | 0.363% |
| 118 | Linoone | 0.355% |
| 119 | Articuno | 0.355% |
| 120 | Gourgeist-Super | 0.351% |
| 121 | Hariyama | 0.350% |
| 122 | Masquerain | 0.344% |
| 123 | Huntail | 0.340% |
| 124 | Muk | 0.332% |
| 125 | Exeggutor | 0.331% |
| 126 | Torterra | 0.323% |
| 127 | Servine | 0.302% |
| 128 | Aurorus | 0.296% |
| 129 | Ursaring | 0.281% |
| 130 | Meowstic | 0.272% |
| 131 | Marowak | 0.265% |
| 132 | Rampardos | 0.263% |
| 133 | Sneasel | 0.263% |
| 134 | Barbaracle | 0.239% |
| 135 | Ditto | 0.231% |
| 136 | Leafeon | 0.226% |
| 137 | Vullaby | 0.225% |
| 138 | Tauros | 0.225% |
| 139 | Poliwrath | 0.221% |
| 140 | Rotom-Fan | 0.217% |
| 141 | Flareon | 0.215% |
| 142 | Victreebel | 0.208% |
| 143 | Ninjask | 0.207% |
| 144 | Probopass | 0.201% |
| 145 | Armaldo | 0.199% |
| 146 | Jynx | 0.189% |
| 147 | Shedinja | 0.187% |
| 148 | Dusclops | 0.186% |
| 149 | Swanna | 0.176% |
| 150 | Whirlipede | 0.175% |
| 151 | Slaking | 0.170% |
| 152 | Diglett | 0.168% |
| 153 | Carracosta | 0.166% |
| 154 | Tangela | 0.165% |
| 155 | Pikachu | 0.165% |
| 156 | Kingler | 0.158% |
| 157 | Samurott | 0.158% |
| 158 | Rotom | 0.150% |
| 159 | Avalugg | 0.146% |
| 160 | Swoobat | 0.144% |
| 161 | Gogoat | 0.144% |
| 162 | Prinplup | 0.139% |
| 163 | Dusknoir | 0.136% |
| 164 | Klinklang | 0.131% |
| 165 | Chatot | 0.130% |
| 166 | Magcargo | 0.128% |
| 167 | Glaceon | 0.127% |
| 168 | Regice | 0.126% |
| 169 | Ninetales | 0.124% |
| 170 | Drifblim | 0.122% |
| 171 | Pelipper | 0.121% |
| 172 | Lapras | 0.116% |
| 173 | Piloswine | 0.116% |
| 174 | Luxray | 0.113% |
| 175 | Throh | 0.113% |
| 176 | Basculin | 0.112% |
| 177 | Kangaskhan | 0.110% |
| 178 | Rapidash | 0.109% |
| 179 | Mightyena | 0.102% |
| 180 | Carbink | 0.101% |
| 181 | Haunter | 0.100% |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +Qwilfish moved from NU to RU
Steelix moved from NU to RU
Virizion moved from NU to RU
Pinsir moved from UU to RU
Camerupt stayed in NU
- Status