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Smogon Usage-Based Tier Update: May 2016
- Thread starter Antar
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OU:
| 51 | Tangrowth | 3.562% |
Uh oh, I was fine with Amoongus going but don't take this.
UU:
| 1 | Sylveon | 19.902% |
| 3 | Conkeldurr | 15.116% |
Whoa, even for new toy syndrome that's pretty heavy.
| 68 | Goodra | 3.276% |
Please keep going down, RU needs a decent special tank/wall.
RU:
| 55 | Ambipom | 3.759% |
| 59 | Typhlosion | 3.447% |
| 60 | Cinccino | 3.394% |
| 62 | Togetic | 3.070% |
| 67 | Trevenant | 2.197% |
Good, let's keep this up.
| 56 | Garbodor | 3.647% |
NOOOOOOOOO!
| 51 | Tangrowth | 3.562% |
Uh oh, I was fine with Amoongus going but don't take this.
UU:
| 1 | Sylveon | 19.902% |
| 3 | Conkeldurr | 15.116% |
Whoa, even for new toy syndrome that's pretty heavy.
| 68 | Goodra | 3.276% |
Please keep going down, RU needs a decent special tank/wall.
RU:
| 55 | Ambipom | 3.759% |
| 59 | Typhlosion | 3.447% |
| 60 | Cinccino | 3.394% |
| 62 | Togetic | 3.070% |
| 67 | Trevenant | 2.197% |
Good, let's keep this up.
| 56 | Garbodor | 3.647% |
NOOOOOOOOO!
It was RU for a time before it moved up, Escavalier can check it well, as can Assault Vest Slowking.
Pretty sure this would be quickbanned, as after a Dragon Dance it's damn near unstoppable. Defensive Granbull is pretty much the only good check, and even then it still gets 2HKOed by a Choice Band Iron Tail. -1 252 Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Haxorus Iron Tail vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 206-244 (53.7 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I'm interested in seeing how this does, RU doesn't have a Special Dragon, although Flygon can run a Special set with its mighty base 80 Special Attack. Its average Speed and physical frailty will prevent it from being too overpowered in my opinion, but of course we'd have to wait and see.
I think this might have already been RU but either got banned or moved up on its own (don't quote me on that, I'm not 100% sure). Either way if it moved down it would be massively threatening, as Seed Flare's stat drops make it extremely difficult to reliably wall.
This is BL2 anyway
I'm not worried about this one. Most bulky Water types can stop it, and its pitiful Special Defence makes setting up tricky in the first place. Many players run Focus Sash, and of course that costs it valuable power.
Oh well I didn't know that
Dude Milotic will never drop. It's too good for RU, it'd just get quickbanned
The thing is that Alomomola is in RU, not UU and Milotic has great bulk which puts pressure on a lot of teams due to Scald and Recover and also Leftovers. I think Milotic will be UU forever LOL. And the only reason Gurdurr is in RU is because of Mega Steelix and Tyrantrum. Those two are getting suspect tested now so if the off chance they both got banned. there won't be any reason to use Gurdurr and it would drop to NU but for now keep it in RU
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Reuniclus is actually BL2, not long before UU decided to snatch it up.
Milotic won't be at all threatening enough in RU to warrant a quickban (RU handled Slowking without too much trouble), plus Milotic was actually RU for a couple of months after XY RU's incpetion and it was completely fine. Also if you want to make consecutive comments, you can just edit your initial post.
Can we actually disassociate usage and tiering in doubles, it's actually disgusting how many terrible things are actually eligible to rise to DOU, and how many things are in DOU that are bad. This includes things like Scizor, Chandelure, Greninja, Dragonite, Tyranitar, Meowstic, Tornadus, Regular Metagross, Garchomp, Mawile-Mega, Whimsicott, Tornadus, Sableye, Ninetails, etc. When there are things like Deoxys-Attack, Mega-Metagross, Rotom-Heat, Mega-Charizard-X, Volcarona, and Salamence that are DUU but should be DOU because they are really good, but are forgotten by most of the ladder which don't have smogon accounts.
So the usage stats show Zapdos being used in UU, Amoonguss being used in RU and Quagsire in NU. Aren't all three of them OU at the moment?
Also, Zapdos has over 5% usage in OU... seriously?
Also, Zapdos has over 5% usage in OU... seriously?
Meowstic, Tornadus, Metagross, Sableye, and Ninetales are all used more than they should be, but still DUU. Also, if you look at the usage stats in the seasonal, which is mostly solid players, things like Deo-A would actually still be DUU so it's not as cut-and-dry to say what should be DOU / DUU and what shouldn't.
While there are definitely some changes that could be made, it wouldn't be without a lot of policy discussion. There's only one real option going forward before this change in generation: changing the tiering of those mons by getting them to rise from usage. So, in July, the month before normal rises, just use those mons as much as you can and ask your friends to do the same!
Also, if you look at Pokemon like Ambipom, it's clear that Doubles is not the only metagame that wishes it could deviate from usage-based tiering.
Ummmm..........
In the OU usage stats for May.
| 80 | Hawlucha | 1.95808% | 82846 | 1.958% | 58234 | 1.841% |
| 81 | Galvantula | 1.93033% | 81672 | 1.930% | 69352 | 2.193% |
| 82 | Snorlax | 1.92040% | 81252 | 1.920% | 57890 | 1.830% |
| 83 | Celebi | 1.88935% | 79938 | 1.889% | 61451 | 1.943% |
| 84 | Forretress | 1.88824% | 79891 | 1.888% | 68420 | 2.163% |
| 85 | Nidoking | 1.86722% | 79002 | 1.867% | 59380 | 1.877% |
In the OU usage stats for May.
| 80 | Hawlucha | 1.95808% | 82846 | 1.958% | 58234 | 1.841% |
| 81 | Galvantula | 1.93033% | 81672 | 1.930% | 69352 | 2.193% |
| 82 | Snorlax | 1.92040% | 81252 | 1.920% | 57890 | 1.830% |
| 83 | Celebi | 1.88935% | 79938 | 1.889% | 61451 | 1.943% |
| 84 | Forretress | 1.88824% | 79891 | 1.888% | 68420 | 2.163% |
| 85 | Nidoking | 1.86722% | 79002 | 1.867% | 59380 | 1.877% |
Idk if it is too late to revamp the doubles tiering process before the end of the generation, but I think having a VR based system for doubles similar to what they are doing for RBY atm (i.e. below a certain cutoff marks where the next tier sits) would be a good idea going into SuMo given the atrocious quality of the ladder and the stupid placements that have occurred as a result of this.
I am not sure if that is such a good idea. RBY is a vastly different metagame where your realistic options in OU are just a handful of mons instead of the dozens of mons you can pick in today's metagames. The debatable ones are the niche mons that you'd see from time to time but still rarely and because there is a much smaller player base it can allow for more direct approach to decide what mon should belong in what tier so this approach is realistically plausible in a more stale metagame, preferable past ones where the player base is smaller but experienced. But this approach is really subjective to players opinion and even in RBY people aren't in complete agreement which mon belongs in OU so even in RBY these problems pop up that would only be worse when the playerbase is larger and is still room to be explored. I am not experienced at all in Doubles but I am pretty sure it isn't blatantly obvious what deserves to be OU and what isn't so it'd be opening a can of worms to let players directly decide a mon's tier placement, even if just to get rid of the trash.
Here's the labels for what each column is for.
| Rank | Pokemon | Usage % | Raw | % | Real | % |
The Raw % and the Real % are not identical, to be qualified to be included in Real % there's different criteria (Antar would be best at explaining exactly what goes into a "real" usage), which is also why you'll see that a Pokemon appears to have two different numbers for uses - and Real usage numbers are basically always lower than the Raw usage numbers. Usage % is also based on Raw % usage, not Real % usage.
You can also see this at the top of the ou-0 stats you used, with Ferrothorn, Rotom-Wash, and Heatran.
| 1 | Landorus-Therian | 16.23950% | 687091 | 16.240% | 573652 | 18.137% |
| 2 | Garchomp | 12.94270% | 547604 | 12.943% | 436632 | 13.805% |
| 3 | Ferrothorn | 12.51016% | 529303 | 12.510% | 441619 | 13.963% |
| 4 | Talonflame | 12.13443% | 513406 | 12.134% | 370235 | 11.706% |
| 5 | Gengar | 12.02656% | 508842 | 12.027% | 355318 | 11.234% |
| 6 | Rotom-Wash | 11.69054% | 494625 | 11.691% | 405301 | 12.814% |
| 7 | Heatran | 11.68201% | 494264 | 11.682% | 399774 | 12.640% |
| 8 | Clefable | 11.54409% | 488429 | 11.544% | 362037 | 11.446% |
| 9 | Excadrill | 11.25047% | 476006 | 11.250% | 346736 | 10.963% |
Honestly, the best part is that Zapdos is still in the UU usage
Code:
| 61 | Zapdos | 3.858% |
Q10jj34eeDnK Merritt, all of the information about the columns is in the FAQ of the usage stats thread. (It's #3)
Tornadus is in BL2, so it'll never drop to RU| 66 | Reuniclus | 3.476% |
| 67 | Haxorus | 3.405% |
| 68 | Goodra | 3.276% |
| 69 | Shaymin | 3.274% |
| 70 | Tornadus | 3.004% |
| 71 | Cloyster | 2.991% |
Daaamn, we're gonna get a lot of drops for August. I'm surprised that not many people are using Goodra or Reuniclus a lot considering they're both very strong
Reuniclus is good, and I'm surprised its usage is so low, but the UU metagame really isn't very kind to Goodra.
Wow Quagsire's usage dropped quickly eh? What happened?
I realised that Reuniclus got banned from RU before so it won't drop, neither will Tornadus or Shaymin, but Goodra, Cloyster and Haxorus will probably drop. But I bet Haxorus will get quickbanned
People realised it was crap in OU
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