Spelling and Grammar Standards

STAB is too ingrained as a term in and of itself that doesn't describe anything else. It may sound grammatically awkward if you read STAB as same-type attack bonus whenever it's used, but things like STAB option or STAB move sound wrong as well.
 
STAB is too ingrained as a term in and of itself that doesn't describe anything else. It may sound grammatically awkward if you read STAB as same-type attack bonus whenever it's used, but things like STAB option or STAB move sound wrong as well.
I think when you say something like "Draco Meteor is a good STAB option/move for Noivern" it sounds fine. I wouldn't know how else to word it to be honest.
 
i have little recall how smogon grammar works but the following makes sense in my head and i wrote most of this up hours ago so my thoughts are disjointed, i don't quite recall if I had a finisher sentence, and i'm unsure if my thoughts are there in full.

STAB needs to be paired with a variable - by itself, it doesnt make sense. "swampert's same type attack bonus deals good damage to heatran", a good player will place the "move" or "attack" right after 'same type attack bonus' but relying on the reader's mind to be knowledgable enough in both the english language and competitive battling is not always the case. if it was "swampert's STAB deals good damage to heatran" then STAB becomes a noun, something tangible swampert has access to that it itself can deal good damage to heatran, which is not the case

"swampert's same type attack bonus Water-type deals good damage to heatran" is technically correct I think, it just reads weirdly. when you make it 'STAB' it becomes more natural to read

I'm not sure what your issue is, CP?

"Fire-types such as Infernape and Heatran can deal a lot of damage to Ferrothorn with their STABs" - the STAB's variable is Fire-type. its talking about any attack that is fire-typed. sure, we'll never recommend fire fang heatran or flame wheel infernape, but these are things that are included in that sentence. The word "move" is never mentioned, because it doesn't talk about anything specific, it's discussing the entire arsenal of Fire-type moves the two Pokemon have at their disposal.

I would personally rewrite the sentence, however. "Infernape and Heatran can deal a lot of damage to Ferrothorn with their Fire-type STABs". With this sentence structure, instead of the reader having the read in between the lines to understand that Infernape and Heatran gain STAB from Fire-type, which would require (what they hopefully already have but better safe than sorry) a basic knowledge of what STAB is. Now, the information that Heatran and Infernape are Fire-type is the information not clearly present in the sentence, which is (in my opinion) the way it is better written.
Um, I think we are talking about the same thing? I too wanted STAB to be paired with a 'variable', as you put it: like "move" or "option" or whatever. The only difference is that I want this to be the standard way of writing it (if this is going to be made a standard) i.e., the variable you use is preferably move / attack / option. I just feel that "deal a lot of damage with their STABs" sounds a little awkward.

Also lol, I think you can expect readers to figure out that Heatran / Infernape are Fire-types, that they won't use Ember or Fire Fang or whatever :P

tbh I'm not really sold on having this added as a standard to the list. We can just point it out while GPing and be done with it.

STAB is too ingrained as a term in and of itself that doesn't describe anything else. It may sound grammatically awkward if you read STAB as same-type attack bonus whenever it's used, but things like STAB option or STAB move sound wrong as well.
Yeah, I know if you read it that way "same-type attack bonus move" sounds stupid, but we read "STAB move" and understand it as "a move that gets STAB".

And no, for the love of god no "STABM" or whatever, that just sounds worse >:( >:(

tl;dr "STAB move / option / attack" sounds better than "STABs / STAB" if you want to refer to "an attack that gets the same-type attack bonus", but I don't know if this is so big an issue that it needs to be added to the list.
 

Electrolyte

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STAB is an adjective describing a move. It is not a noun, so it should not be used as one. (It is only a noun when it represents the actual boost being given to the attack in question.) It not only requires a variable; it requires a noun variable for it to describe.

Thus, these are incorrect:

"Magma Storm is one of Heatran's most powerful STABs."
AND
"Fire-types hit powerfully with their STABs."**

I agree with Calm Pokemaster. In both cases, the word STAB is missing its noun- it isn't describing anything. To fix this, a noun must be added- "STAB moves" and "STAB attacks" are both grammatically correct.

**Note that, because STAB is an adjective, it should never be pluralized to "STABs". Plurality should always be expressed in the noun. (This is a helpful tip. If you're ever not sure if you're using STAB correctly, check if you're using "STABs"- if you are, odds are you're (incorrectly) using it as a noun.)
 

horyzhnz

[10:02:17 AM] flcl: its hory xD
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So does this mean we need to overhaul all the finished analyses?
I know we'll need to keep this in mind for future analyses and update the Grammar thread and whatnot, but I'm fairly certain 'STABs' has been used many times in already finished analyses.

edit: ot, yeah, I reckon electro's correct; STAB is used more often than not as an adjective so just for consistency's sake: STAB move / [name of move], not STABs ('-Pokemon-'s same type attack bonuses get good coverage' just sounds plain wrong too)
 
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So does this mean we need to overhaul all the finished analyses?
I know we'll need to keep this in mind for future analyses and update the Grammar thread and whatnot, but I'm fairly certain 'STABs' has been used many times in already finished analyses.
Likely. It would be inefficient, but (I think) necessary. We can't just leave all analyses with a simple grammatical error due to the lack of previous discussion. This means that all analyses need going through (from RBY too) but it isn't way too difficult. Just use the find in page function, go through, and make the correction. The only real issue is the amount of time it will take.
 

horyzhnz

[10:02:17 AM] flcl: its hory xD
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We shouldn't be needing to go back and change ALL analyses, only the ones that are actually relevant at this time; basically only the XY ones which most people will be viewing, since what's done is done, and there's not much point to necroing analyses that nobody will be looking at. Just my two cents.
 
lol no we don't need to go back and fix all the instances of "STABs". I know it's wrong, but just fix it when you come across it in the future. This is what we follow for most conventions we frame: fix it in future analyses, but don't waste time going back and fixing all its occurrences in previously written stuff.
 

Electrolyte

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I don't find it necessary to actively go back and fix this because it isn't as widespread of a problem as the "crux" and "first glance" issues were. (Of course, if you see the mistake, you are obligated as not only a GP member but also a badged user to fix it, but you don't have to actively look for the errors.) Also, as far as I know, I have always corrected for the use of "STAB" as anything besides an adjective anyway, and will just continue to do so.

This isn't a major rule change; this rule has always existed, unlike the rules against prose repetition in the past. People have just overlooked it, so we'll be fine as long as everyone is aware and fixing it again.
 

bugmaniacbob

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wait I've been changing "STABs" to "STAB attacks" since I started GP

Has nobody else been doing so? Really? (I mean aside from Electrolyte and the others here)

I was very much under the impression that this was, if not a standard, at least correct English. If it isn't clear to everybody, it should be made explicit.
 

Oglemi

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Also remember it's about 1000x easier to do mass sweeps and correct stuff like that with the SCMS. For now don't bother with doing it with the current "finished" analyses since they're in thread form, just know that it's the current standard and focus on fixing ones from here on out.

I standardized the no accent on the e in Pokemon for the entire site bar The Smog in 2 days a couple years ago, and Honko and a couple others eliminated "crux" in about the same timespan. Mass sweeps are doable, just have to remember to do them. 9.9
 

GatoDelFuego

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I've always been changing STAB when talking about a move to STAB moves or whatever, but I just noticed a big increase in its use so I wanted to start a discussion about it.

I have to disagree that STAB is ALWAYS incorrect--LS's thoughts are exactly what mine are. STAB is usually an adjective, as in "STAB move--a move that gets STAB". When you break it down though: same type attack bonus. In this case it's a noun. I've always interpreted there to be one "STAB" for each type in the game. In that sense, I've always thought a sentence like "Terrakion has two of the best STABs in the game" was perfectly correct, in that it gets a Fighting STAB and a Rock STAB. I know that this form has been used quite a bit and is kind of a "staple" in Smogon writing or something like that? I just don't believe that STAB when used to describe the bonus for a certain type is wrong.

90% of the time though I agree STAB is being used wrong to describe a STAB move.
 
I don't know if I'm allowed to post here, or not, but should Arceus holding a different plate be considered a "forme" difference or a "type" difference? I've heard people referring to them as different formes, but the official Pokédex recognizes all of them as just Arceus, and not Grass Arceus, Fire Arceus, Flying arceus, etc. Which one should we use?
 
I don't know if I'm allowed to post here, or not, but should Arceus holding a different plate be considered a "forme" difference or a "type" difference? I've heard people referring to them as different formes, but the official Pokédex recognizes all of them as just Arceus, and not Grass Arceus, Fire Arceus, Flying arceus, etc. Which one should we use?
We say Arceus formes e.g., "support Arceus formes such as Fairy Arceus"
 

GatoDelFuego

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Attack control vs attack control

I've seen two uses for this: the first being Attack control; controlling the opponent's Attack stat, by use of burns or Intimidate. The other is absorbing/redirecting attacks, such as with Follow Me or Rage Powder, which would be "attack control". Because we added in speed control, I'll add this one as well in a bit.
 

GatoDelFuego

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For a sentence such as "Heatran can hit Lucario hard on the switch in," what form of "switch in" should we use? I've been using the two-word version, as it would be the same as "hit hard on the switch". I only ask because "switch-in" is a noun in itself, but usually refers to "something that switches in". Thoughts?
 

fleurdyleurse

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hyphen. It's optimal to just use 'hit hard on the switch' rather than 'hit hard on the switch-in', imo, as it causes less confusion.
 
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Oglemi

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Switch-in is strictly a noun:

"Scizor is a great switch-in to counter Whimsicott."

Switch in is two words, meaning you are actively switching a Pokemon in:

"Try to switch in Heatran on Fire-type attacks."
"Heatran easily switches in on Steel-type attacks."

Switch into is also acceptable:

"Try to switch into Fire-type attacks if using Heatran."
"Do not switch into Stealth Rock if you need Shuca Heatran to take an Earth Power."
 

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