Tournaments SPL XIV GSC Discussion Thread

[Siatam]

Hello GSC enthusiasts! With SPL XIV underway, this thread will be used to discuss GSC related topics, whether it's about the players, general metagame trends, matches, predictions and so on. This thread will be updated with each new week, player standings, and replays.
SPL XIV Commencement Thread
SPL XIV Spreadsheet (coming soon)
SPL XIV Administrative Decisions

Auction Results

Likely GSC Starters (in bold)
Likely Support and/or Substitute Players (not bolded)

Alpha Ruiners - Siatam / dice

Circus Maximus Tigers - Fear / Lily

Cryonicles - Conflict / Vileman

Congregation of the Classiest - Century Express / Garay oak

Dragonspiral Tyrants - RealJester

Ever Grande Bigs - M Dragon / BlazingDark

Indie Scooters - Hyogafodex

Stark Sharks -watashi / Raichy

Team Raiders - Aliss / false

Wi-Fi Wolfpack - D4 Repertoire / lax​

 

[giraffefromholland]

This could be one of the best tours we've had in a minute yet. Looking forward to seeing what new ideas Conflict, M Dragon(?), and Fear bring in particular, and hoping to see some exciting play from a number of the others here, too. Good luck to all!

 

[cherryb0ng]

Not gonna lie, in spite of the indignation many players have (I'm sure everyone of us has one friend they expected in this year) I see there is more than a fair amount of talent.
We should keep in mind that this year's SPL hax 4 current gen OU slots, which is pretty weird to me. The credit management would have suggested all of this going to the detriment of lower tiers, yet I believe that every team has a proficient GSC OU player so maybe we'll be lucky.

 

[FNH]

Siatam / dice

Lol you're not starting

 

[coco]

My personal thoughts about this GSCSPL:


Despite what people say about the pool this year, I found it quite interesting due to multiple aspects.
Conflict and Fear, basically are the players to beat.
I don’t think it needs to be explained how good they are in terms of the building process and in choices’ quality during the game .
They are highly experienced and I expect a super positive score from both and I’m looking forward to see their match.
In any case , I’m very excited to see how Jester and Siatam will perform.
They are very good players and I had the pleasure to share with both of them a conversation about GSC.
Especially Siatam, who was my mate in the GSCPL.
I really like how he builds and his creativity!
I think their drafts were more than deserved despite other people’ s opinion.
I’ve never seen Alis / D4 playing.
The first won the GSC inv. while the second one won like a GSC seasonal or global(?), maybe I could be wrong, not sure.
Speaking of CE, the ladder hero, I’m also excited and happy to see him playing SPL.
I think he’s one of the strongest player of the pool and I’m pretty sure he will do well.
Honestly, I’ve not seen him playing a lot and I never had the pleasure and the honor to interact with him but, for what I’ve seen, he impressed me a lot.
Last but not least, I’m not sure who will start for the Bigs. Maybe Mdrag? BDark? Idk, if MDrag will play, he could be a threat for everyone.
Not sure if we are the same level of Confilct/Fear, just because I consider them to be top notch.
Anyway, His experience is notable and I think he will perform well.
Watashi is an experienced player as well, who I’ve seen playing just just once , so idk.
In general, I liked the draft; it’s a mix between old veteran players and new ones who want to kick ass and takes name.
Best of luck to all players and may the best one win!

 

[gorgie]

Key: Threat level decreases the later a trainer's name is mentioned in the post

Conflict is the guy to beat in this pool. Every opponent going against him should be increasingly wrought with fear or excitement as the battle draws closer.

D4. Yeah. If he doesn't cave in to the big leagues pressure I have faith in this man causing a ruckus. His style allows him to flex easily between opponents and adapt on the fly, while maintaining his unique approach to building -- a key factor in a competitive bo1 environment like SPL.

Thrive dude. You have what it takes.

Century Express >= Fear. I'm not as big on these guys in today's game since they're so easily tilted. If they had the emotional discipline to stay solid during turbulence, I'd throw them up there with the Don.

MDragon is that old dog with strong opinions that are strongly held, which is a recipe for an average performance especially in the data-driven competitive environment of today. Obviously with his ability he could very easily super outperform this prediction, but from what I know and have seen for years, im sticking to my guns on this call.

Aliss is the true wildcard here. Obviously has the potential for upsets, but with a whole team riding on them most weeks coupled with their spontaneous urges to be erratic in the builder/during games, it's tough to predict what exactly tf you're gonna get every week. Imma just stay tuned and watch the chaos unfold.

Hyoga. Bro. I know I have you all the way at the bottom of this list but that's only because I think you're gonna let your team prevent you from going unhinged, which will result in below-average to mediocre performances. But if you truly trust in your gut and go AUTHENTICALLY WILD with the dual groundcores and HeraMolts and shit, i believe you will be one to pay attention to as a threat, win or lose.

RealJester MY BRO PLZ DONTTT

Raichy lol

 

[SoulWind]

Key: Threat level decreases the later a trainer's name is mentioned in the post

Conflict is the guy to beat in this pool. Every opponent going against him should be increasingly wrought with fear or excitement as the battle draws closer.

D4. Yeah. If he doesn't cave in to the big leagues pressure I have faith in this man causing a ruckus. His style allows him to flex easily between opponents and adapt on the fly, while maintaining his unique approach to building -- a key factor in a competitive bo1 environment like SPL.

Thrive dude. You have what it takes.

Century Express >= Fear. I'm not as big on these guys in today's game since they're so easily tilted. If they had the emotional discipline to stay solid during turbulence, I'd throw them up there with the Don.

MDragon is that old dog with strong opinions that are strongly held, which is a recipe for an average performance especially in the data-driven competitive environment of today. Obviously with his ability he could very easily super outperform this prediction, but from what I know and have seen for years, im sticking to my guns on this call.

Aliss is the true wildcard here. Obviously has the potential for upsets, but with a whole team riding on them most weeks coupled with their spontaneous urges to be erratic in the builder/during games, it's tough to predict what exactly tf you're gonna get every week. Imma just stay tuned and watch the chaos unfold.

Hyoga. Bro. I know I have you all the way at the bottom of this list but that's only because I think you're gonna let your team prevent you from going unhinged, which will result in below-average to mediocre performances. But if you truly trust in your gut and go AUTHENTICALLY WILD with the dual groundcores and HeraMolts and shit, i believe you will be one to pay attention to as a threat, win or lose.

RealJester MY BRO PLZ DONTTT

Raichy lol

ass rankings. you can and you should do better. stop armchairing and go back to play. lose.

 

[gorgie]

ass rankings. you can and you should do better. stop armchairing and go back to play. lose.

hell nah

 

[Jorgen]

I just hope we get some cool goofball tricks out of this.

And that all games actually end.

 

[cherryb0ng]

What are your thoughts on Hidden Power Water Gengar? For context, Century Express used it in this specific game where it chipped Steelix leaving it in range of getting it KO'd after spikes damage.
It had a 61% chance to KO it after the first hit and using Spikes so it's quite formidable not only against phazers that are quad weak to Water.

Water + Electric is a pretty underrated type combination and we only see instances of this on the occasional electrics, cloyster's secondary set (though it's very lacklustre against any Water type not named Cloyster), and Starmie with Tbolt which is sort of rare.

It can be hard in certain circumstances to run a move like that as it could come at the cost of ice punch or something else. Without an Ice Punch, Gengar can open up a team to Zapdos which isn't something that you would like very much, and you could still run into Tyranitar which could cause you problems regardless.

What would be a viable set and what would be further applications for this move?


(If any of you are interested, I will try to do a weekly GSC Recap of SPL XIV on Youtube)

 

[BeeOrSomething]

What are your thoughts on Hidden Power Water Gengar? For context, Century Express used it in this specific game where it chipped Steelix leaving it in range of getting it KO'd after spikes damage.
It had a 61% chance to KO it after the first hit and using Spikes so it's quite formidable not only against phazers that are quad weak to Water.

Water + Electric is a pretty underrated type combination and we only see instances of this on the occasional electrics, cloyster's secondary set (though it's very lacklustre against any Water type not named Cloyster), and Starmie with Tbolt which is sort of rare.

It can be hard in certain circumstances to run a move like that as it could come at the cost of ice punch or something else. Without an Ice Punch, Gengar can open up a team to Zapdos which isn't something that you would like very much, and you could still run into Tyranitar which could cause you problems regardless.

What would be a viable set and what would be further applications for this move?


(If any of you are interested, I will try to do a weekly GSC Recap of SPL XIV on Youtube)

I've used water gar quite a bit, and I quite like it, although I drop the third slot instead of ice punch (no extra utility can be annoying but usually gar is still fine). It's able to drop golem from 90%, who is sometimes switched into gar on a tbolt, and doing about 50 to steelix is very nice. While a bit less useful, the extra 10% it does to ttar compared to tbolt is also quite nice. But hp water can really only be "quite nice" as it doesn't really do much beyond hitting those like 3 pokemon for more damage, and if you want there's always dynamic punch for ttar too. Overall, it's a fine option, but not anything special. I would say it's worth considering on teams though.

 

[zf]

Another gar set worth exploring is…
Genger @ leftovers
-ice punch
-fire punch
-giga drain
-hypno

 

[cherryb0ng]

Another gar set worth exploring is…
Genger @ leftovers
-ice punch
-fire punch
-giga drain
-hypno

Free lax setup, Nidoking, Starmie and Raikou are all pretty happy to see this especially after the Hypnosis has been used. You at the very least need Explosion.

On another note, I've seen two tbolt tyrantiars this week

Rock slide seems better than tbolt to me but alas, I'm hoping the players who used this will enlighten us eventually on their choice once the season is over.

 

[ABR]

Free lax setup, Nidoking, Starmie and Raikou are all pretty happy to see this especially after the Hypnosis has been used. You at the very least need Explosion.

On another note, I've seen two tbolt tyrantiars this week

Rock slide seems better than tbolt to me but alas, I'm hoping the players who used this will enlighten us eventually on their choice once the season is over.

it’s usually alongside rock slide, full set = rs eq tbolt dpunch

 

[cherryb0ng]

Modern offense teams be like

 

[zf]

Free lax setup, Nidoking, Starmie and Raikou are all pretty happy to see this especially after the Hypnosis has been used. You at the very least need Explosion.

this is primarily for balanced teams that are looking to win the spikes game… not. Boom offenses, where u are likely to use an alternative sleeper and need the utility boom from gar

giga ensures that gar is tough to wear down and relatively immune to spikes chip. Also pressures ttar quite hard and beats non EQ and non crunch tar (also adds a layer of complexity to trapping gar even with access to crunch/eq).This can be devastating for teams looking to pursuit trap gar to get spin off with forre, for example.

coverage is also quite optimal into boom offenses, hitting lix, ttar, golem for superffective damage where boltbeam would not.

lax still doesnt like taking sleep, no matter the set… dont really get your point there since gar isnt gonna beat lax without trading with boom or freezing anyway

but whatever. I think gar has a lot more flexibility than people r using… meanlook + boom, tox, rest, meanlook + psong, haze all have neat applications. Gar does most thing missy wants to do, just better. Lots of customization is available

 

[cherryb0ng]

giga ensures that gar is tough to wear down and relatively immune to spikes chip. Also pressures ttar quite hard and beats non EQ and non crunch tar (also adds a layer of complexity to trapping gar even with access to crunch/eq).This can be devastating for teams looking to pursuit trap gar to get spin off with forre, for example.

Debatable that it beats non crunch and eq tar. I did the calcs and even if you took no spikes damage from Gengar and dealt max damage rolls while taking minimum rolls from Rock slide you might just make up enough hp back to survive a 3HKO from rock slide (you'd need to be really lucky) but fail to 4HKO back. Plus Dynamic Punch already adds a layer of complexity to trapping ttar. If you click Dynamic punch both on the turn tyranitar switches in and on the turn you stay in you have a 75% chance of landing a 4 times super effective hit for more than half guaranteed.

You are opening yourself up to Starmie and will likely lose your vital advantage you otherwise had against stall (sub starmie will successfully blank all of this gengar's moves but I guess that doesn't add a layer of complexity to the spin blocking. Just using your words.)

Anyways I agree that Gengar has LOTS of customizability. I'm not saying that Giga Drain is entirely a bad move, nor that you couldn't find some success with a moveset like that but a team can play around coverage moves that aren't really that strong and the benefits of giga drain aren't in all cases THAT great.
I strongly advocate for using as many different sets of Gengar whereever applicable because it has the potential of really getting the jump on an unready opponent and can get such a juicy advantage. My only real issue with the whole no-boom thing is that in certain ways you could become a liability against sleep talking Zapdos who find an opportunity to replenish their health or Raikous that straight up try to 1v1 or teams that try and respect a set that isn't too threatening offensively against very bulky pokemon could end up preserving their Snorlax without too much trouble.

I am always interested in seeing replays of alternative gengar sets.

 

[16bit]

Key: Threat level decreases the later a trainer's name is mentioned in the post

Conflict is the guy to beat in this pool. Every opponent going against him should be increasingly wrought with fear or excitement as the battle draws closer.

D4. Yeah. If he doesn't cave in to the big leagues pressure I have faith in this man causing a ruckus. His style allows him to flex easily between opponents and adapt on the fly, while maintaining his unique approach to building -- a key factor in a competitive bo1 environment like SPL.

Thrive dude. You have what it takes.

Century Express >= Fear. I'm not as big on these guys in today's game since they're so easily tilted. If they had the emotional discipline to stay solid during turbulence, I'd throw them up there with the Don.

MDragon is that old dog with strong opinions that are strongly held, which is a recipe for an average performance especially in the data-driven competitive environment of today. Obviously with his ability he could very easily super outperform this prediction, but from what I know and have seen for years, im sticking to my guns on this call.

Aliss is the true wildcard here. Obviously has the potential for upsets, but with a whole team riding on them most weeks coupled with their spontaneous urges to be erratic in the builder/during games, it's tough to predict what exactly tf you're gonna get every week. Imma just stay tuned and watch the chaos unfold.

Hyoga. Bro. I know I have you all the way at the bottom of this list but that's only because I think you're gonna let your team prevent you from going unhinged, which will result in below-average to mediocre performances. But if you truly trust in your gut and go AUTHENTICALLY WILD with the dual groundcores and HeraMolts and shit, i believe you will be one to pay attention to as a threat, win or lose.

RealJester MY BRO PLZ DONTTT

Raichy lol

A month removed these predictions have aged near impeccably

 

[D4 Repertoire]

Key: Threat level decreases the later a trainer's name is mentioned in the post

Conflict is the guy to beat in this pool. Every opponent going against him should be increasingly wrought with fear or excitement as the battle draws closer.

D4. Yeah. If he doesn't cave in to the big leagues pressure I have faith in this man causing a ruckus. His style allows him to flex easily between opponents and adapt on the fly, while maintaining his unique approach to building -- a key factor in a competitive bo1 environment like SPL.

Thrive dude. You have what it takes.

Century Express >= Fear. I'm not as big on these guys in today's game since they're so easily tilted. If they had the emotional discipline to stay solid during turbulence, I'd throw them up there with the Don.

MDragon is that old dog with strong opinions that are strongly held, which is a recipe for an average performance especially in the data-driven competitive environment of today. Obviously with his ability he could very easily super outperform this prediction, but from what I know and have seen for years, im sticking to my guns on this call.

Aliss is the true wildcard here. Obviously has the potential for upsets, but with a whole team riding on them most weeks coupled with their spontaneous urges to be erratic in the builder/during games, it's tough to predict what exactly tf you're gonna get every week. Imma just stay tuned and watch the chaos unfold.

Hyoga. Bro. I know I have you all the way at the bottom of this list but that's only because I think you're gonna let your team prevent you from going unhinged, which will result in below-average to mediocre performances. But if you truly trust in your gut and go AUTHENTICALLY WILD with the dual groundcores and HeraMolts and shit, i believe you will be one to pay attention to as a threat, win or lose.

RealJester MY BRO PLZ DONTTT

Raichy lol

Ruckus = caused

 

[Century Express]

Since SPL is over for me, I'd like to take my time to share some ideas / takes that I've been theorymonning & enjoying a lot in the current GSC OU metagame:

---

Spikes Forretress + Back-Up Spinner: Gengar is probably at its peak in GSC OU, meaning that teams relying on Forretress as their only spinner find themselves playing uphill battles against a lot of teams featuring Gengar (and Misdreavus to a lesser extent). In theory, you could pair Tyranitar or Umbreon to alleviate this issue, but this plan becomes harder, when the opponent becomes aware of the telegraphed Tyranitar switch-in, and they suddenly they decide to pull an agressive double switch / click DynamicPunch / click Hypnosis, and then you find yourself in a tricky, near non-recoverable spot. However, I've been enjoying a lot the combination of Forretress with a "secondary" Spinner, in offensive and defensive teams alike. Unlike Cloyster, you have the Toxic-immunity, a plethora of resistances (having the ability to pivot around Jynx, Skarmory, Exeggutor, without losing momentum to non-FireLax is awesome). Between Giga Drain, HP Bug / Ghost / Fire / Ground, Protect and Rest, you have a plethora of viable tools to gain a generous advantage position against many Spikers and Rapid Spin users alike.

Solid Pokémon with access 32 PP Recover: Here, i'd like to give a massive emphasis to Starmie - and personally, I believe well-crafted Starmie teams are one of the most reliable picks in the current metagame. Since a lot of Snorlax movesets are composed of Double-Edge / Earthquake or Flamethrower / Rest / Sleep Talk, that means you can unironically pivot your Starmie, and fulfill your job quite safely (as long as you don't take a well-timed Double-Edge crit) - hard checking non-Crunch Tyranitar, Jynx, Machamp alleviates a lot of issues for Starmie's teammates, meaning that you won't need to over-rely in your own Snorlax / Zapdos to pivot around these threats. Alongside Starmie, I believe that Porygon2 has a legitimate potential to become a reliable anti-metagame pick in GSC (it not only denies non-CurseLax, but it checks a huge portion of metagame as well, as long as it doesn't take random status), but personally, I've been having a lot of trouble to craft a good team featuring Porygon2...

Tyranitar + Back-Up Phazers: Since Steelix or Golem are usually fulfilling their anti-Snorlax duties, it feels great to use Tyranitar for pure wallbreaking purposes. Given how a lot of modern offensive teams are composed of: Snorlax / Zapdos / Cloyster / Gengar / Golem or Tyranitar or Steelix / filler, Tyranitar is a great pick to find openings to suffocate the opposition, especially when you manage to make the right reads (punishing Zapdos, Raikou and Snorlax under RestTalk cycles feels awesome). Personally I dislike using DynamicPunch - but I've been enjoying a lot Curse + Roar, and Screech variants, to dismantle EQ + RestTalk Snorlax trying to recover their momentum. The Pursuit-oriented approach is perfectly fine as well: Earthquake + Pursuit does an excellent job at chipping / breaking Raikou for Zapdos, Crunch + Pursuit removes Starmie or Exeggutor for Steelix or Rhydon, or Ghost-types for Snorlax, and so and on.

Offensive teams with Raikou + Skarmory backbone: Although I barely brought Skarmory in this SPL, I believe this combination has a genuinely good potential in certain team structures. As opposed to Zapdos, Raikou has the perfect combination of bulk, speed tier, and stats to pivot around a lot of Special / niche Mixed threats (e: Gengar, Jynx, Starmie, and the sporadic lastmon Espeon / Vaporeon / Tentacruel / Charizard), while Skarmory covers the Snorlax match-up handily, meaning that you will naturally find more room to customize the way you're going to use your own Snorlax (e: you won't need to engage in Snorlax vs. Snorlax mirrors so many times, since you have Skarmory + Gengar to pivot around it with their resistances; having Snorlax + Raikou gives you a great comfort zone vs. other Electric-types, etc.). A well-played Nidoking could be a significant issue, meaning that Snorlax probably needs to run RestTalk variants in this kind of approach.

---​

I know I won't win any awards for creativity, especially given how it's not easy to innovate in GSC, but tried to conciliate a little but the idea of: 1) bringing no-nonsense, synergistic team concepts, and 2) trying to stay ahead at least in a specific aspect of my opponent's in-game habits and / or team preferences, without handicapping myself too much in the process. Practicing a lot, and staying honest to my own teambuilding "heuristics" helped me a lot to improve in these last months. I hope this post was an enjoyable read - take care

 

[cherryb0ng]

A month removed these predictions have aged near impeccably

Gorgie with predictions like he's 2014 McGregor

 

[cherryb0ng]

gorgie's prediction continues to baffle me. He got basically everything besides Jester>Hyoga and Century = D4 but each of the top 4 are easily able to take first place. He even got Raichy last for Christ's sake
Conflict

D4

Century Express >= Fear.

MDragon

Aliss

Hyoga

RealJester

Raichy lol

 

[zf]

A few comments on the meta (rly wanted to gsc this year):

1) resttalk 2 atks lax is everywhere.

This has been a trend for a while now, since jynx really picked up steam ~5 years ago. i'd say resttalk 2 atks lax has become the defacto snorlax set on offenses - it's very splashable, covers ice type mons/coverage in a way zapdos cannot, and provides general insurance against mixed and special threats that historically perform well in bulky offense mirrors. This trend leads directly into my next few observations...

2) new ways to generate offense.

lax is one of the most threatening mons in gsc, largely because it has the stats and movepool to do whatever it wants. Curse + stab + flexslot + rest has historically been a great piece to advance gamestates. however as mentioned above, Lax has been moving closer to a supporting piece in many current builds. No longer can u force it asleep and rely on rest turns for momentum. likewise, these resttalk lax sets have a bigger problem of killing mons w/ reliable recovery... something like starmie can sit in front of edge / eq / resttalk lax with little to no fear. this aspect changes how teams need to apply pressure... because u need to ability to threaten out a +0 resttalking lax more more than previous metas. I believe this is partially the reason for starmie's rise, as well as structures we've seen frequently with offensive cores such as mixtar + steelix. it's also a reason the meta has shifted away from jynx + gar special structures...


obviously, resttalk lax structures are pretty solid. a few mons i've really been enjoying to get an edge in these matchups are:


Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
IVs: 6 HP / 28 Atk / 24 Def
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Toxic
- Spikes
- Rest

spinless forre. obviously u can still use spin, and get a lot of free turns vs a resttalk eq lax, but forre isn't spinning vs a gar team... like ever. anyway, spinless forre is a much more reliable spiker than non-rest variants, and has no problems just sitting in front of curse-less laxen. it also forces eq curselax to rest at which pt u can swap to a phazer. good set.


Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Rock Slide
- Curse
- Roar / Sleep Talk / Surf / Earthquake
- Rest / Roar

CurseTar is really good right now. rest variants are great punishes to a curseless lax, and can easily apply pressure to most common structures at +1 with a coverage move. Roar is ok if you need a phazer but personally i prefer using coverage moves. EQ is nice in generally - Edgequake coverage = good, hits rocks, hits gar, yadda yadda. Surf is for hitting those golem spammers and maintains decent hits into steelix as well. resttalk can be very nice on fatter teams. Really hits a wall into Steelix but it also crazy tough to force out using conventional means... for example, zap and raikou are gonna have a tough time breaking your resttalk loops if it comes down to it.


Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Surf
- Substitute
- Nightmare
- Recover

this mon should honestly be the new payoff for special offenses, as it's one of the few special attackers that gives resttalk lax fits. you get all the 32 pp recover + sub benefits, but nightmare really racks up damage vs lax and rest zap. very underrated set imo.


Gengar @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Ice Punch
- Dynamic Punch
- Thunderbolt
- Nightmare

yeah i'm continuing the nightmare trend. I think it's great on 3 atks gar. Lax hates taking on this set, and ironically resttalk raikou doesn't love it either. obviously giving up explosion is pretty huge, and explosion is a great reason to use gar... but nightmare turns him into a ferocious mixed attacker.


Gengar @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Ice Punch / Thunderbolt
- Protect / Confuse Ray
- Mean Look
- Perish Song

pretty cheesy set... but perishtrap gar is pretty great into a number of bulkier structures rn. I also think meanlook + boom is a really really strong enabler for offense as well. underexplored options.


Heracross
Ability: No Ability
- Megahorn
- Seismic Toss
- Thief
- Rest
i think hera is pretty good right now. megahorn hitting starmie, ttar, and threatening unboosted lax are 3 qualities to have in this meta. the drop in resttalk zap is also beneficial. I like thief as the flexslot on hera, because u can get some nice targets with it - zap, skarm, gar... even when hera's "dead" it still has utility.



physical attackers that actually threaten resttalk lax are pretty good rn too... obviously something like nidoking has fallen off since it really wants prey on talkless lax structures. these guys do a pretty good job of applying pressure thru lax, just like they always have. but these days, resttalk zap isnt there to greet them on every offensive structure, meaning they have a window to do a lot more work.



lastly, ive been exploring alternative ground type options (vs common lix and golem). personally, i think quag and swine can open up teambuilding to support more offensive lax sets that aren't resttalk. swine in particular loves to be punished by curselax less, as eq and higher base speed are actually quite annoying for lax when hazards, thief, spikes could be a factor (spikes + eq + eq crit kills lax). quag is also p good insurance vs electrics - i've been a fan for a while and built our team vs d4 with quag. nidoqueen has been kind of mid in testing... but ive liked it more than king in the current meta. unfortunately requires thief on zap to get the 3hko w icebeam... but eats hp ice well enough that morning sun is actually a viable option.

looking forward to explore this meta more in gsc cup

 

[cherryb0ng]

A few comments on the meta (rly wanted to gsc this year):

1) resttalk 2 atks lax is everywhere.

This has been a trend for a while now, since jynx really picked up steam ~5 years ago. i'd say resttalk 2 atks lax has become the defacto snorlax set on offenses - it's very splashable, covers ice type mons/coverage in a way zapdos cannot, and provides general insurance against mixed and special threats that historically perform well in bulky offense mirrors. This trend leads directly into my next few observations...

2) new ways to generate offense.

lax is one of the most threatening mons in gsc, largely because it has the stats and movepool to do whatever it wants. Curse + stab + flexslot + rest has historically been a great piece to advance gamestates. however as mentioned above, Lax has been moving closer to a supporting piece in many current builds. No longer can u force it asleep and rely on rest turns for momentum. likewise, these resttalk lax sets have a bigger problem of killing mons w/ reliable recovery... something like starmie can sit in front of edge / eq / resttalk lax with little to no fear. this aspect changes how teams need to apply pressure... because u need to ability to threaten out a +0 resttalking lax more more than previous metas. I believe this is partially the reason for starmie's rise, as well as structures we've seen frequently with offensive cores such as mixtar + steelix. it's also a reason the meta has shifted away from jynx + gar special structures...

Is this supposed to be a discussion of GSC OU or SPL? I like what you have to say about the first 5/6 sets. I think perish gengar is especially good against bulkier teams that lack access to rapid ways of dealing damage. I believe that what you have to say about Starmie pseudo-walling rest talk lax is mostly applicable to the Nightmare set because any other set in reality lacks a good way to pressure snorlax when it's asleep and it's pretty simple to see how a special attacker that fails to 6HKO is unreliable when it comes to stalling out snorlax of its PP while on the other hand it only needs a single crit to OHKO mie.

You're also probably right about Starmie pairing well with other kinds of offence.

Not only Curse but Mixed tar is much more effective against many Curse-less lax sets and steelix has proven to be an excellent enabler of Mixed tar since now it can more reliably do whatever the builder designed for it to do offensively (wallbreaking or pursuit trapping) without too much concern for how the opponent will break through with Snorlax.

But anyways if we aren't going to talk about specific SPL sets then I just think it would be better to post this stuff in the GSC OU discussion or the viability rankings thread.