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Gotta make one of my own when I'm home from schoolmine
Lilligant does get Ice Spinner, so Mence, Amoonguss and Thundurus-T aren't an issue after a boost. But I can see bulky Moltres still walling it. I also think Vivillion probably does be NU because I don't think QD Oricorios are NU at all, outside of maybe Psychic. And finally Avalugg Hisui sucks ass man, it's typing is too horrible and it doesn't have any defensive utility not provided by other Pokémon (including base). I think otherwise the list is pretty Coolio.Thanks for the feedback! Some explanations for the mons you mentioned: Avalugg-Hisui, as opposed to base Avalugg, has a stellar offensive profile. Mountain Gale + Stone Edge + Earthquake is a nightmare to wall in lower tiers, and I can see this filling a role similar to Stakataka as a hazard-setting tank (except this one also gets spin!). Sure, its defensive typing is godawful, but that's why it's all the way down in PU. The only reason to use Vivillon over the Oricorios is Sleep Powder, and I really don't think that's enough to make up for its typing. Klawf's special bulk honestly kills the mon. I didn't realize it had Knock though, so I could maybe see a PU niche. Cyclizar was tough to rank when considering Shed Tail. RUBL made sense to me originally but I think as long as Shed Tail is legal this mon will be at least UUBL, possibly even banned from OU. Without Shed Tail I think it slots solidly into RU though. The UU meta is extremely unfavorable to Lilligant-H, as mons like Moltres, Salamence, Amoonguss, Ceruledge, and Thundurus-Therian all completely stop its sweep, and some of those can be very dangerous when given free turns, so I don't think it's worth the risk. Agreed on Noivern, but I'm not comfortable putting it any higher than RU long-term.
You think Golduck would have any viability as a rather niche swift swimmer this gen? It got access to Nasty Plot (only pokemon with Swift Swim + Nasty Plot I’m aware of), has reasonable coverage options (Ice Beam, Focus Blast, Psychic, also Flip Turn), and the same offensive stats as Kingdra (95 sp atk, 85 speed). By no means would it ever be OU I’m just wondering if it’d have any viability at all (I’m also saying this with the assumption terra is banned)In a meta where offence will be king, you need the offence killer. You need weather! Let me introduce you to your candidates!
Sun
Torkoal - Scovillain - Slither Wing - Chi Yu
Sun will obviously stick out at the start due to how it buffs up all the new caveman mons. Torkoal is your setter. It hates the lack of removal but hey what ya gonna do.
That weird ass pepper mon Scovillain has just about the right stats and movepool to work as a chlorophyll sweeper. 108 SpA ain't incredible, but it's good enough when sun boosted to smash hard. Growth, Fire Blast, Solar Beam/Giga Drain/Energy Ball/Grass Knot for grass stab to hit rocks and waters. Unfortunately its special movepool is pretty lacking so there's no good final move on a special set to hit fire types. But mixed works since you can run stomping tantrum. It's physical movepool is much better overall, including Zen Heatbutt and Crunch, but is stuck with fire fang so isn't worth it. Honestly you hit so hard with fire blast that you could run sub in the final slot.
Sun mons amongst the Caveman Mons are tough to pick out since the obvious candidates would be banned even without sun (Salamence and Misdreavus). From the remaining candidates, the extra floofy Volcarona looks promising. Its attack is so high so it can't realistically boost speed, but you do have flame charge as a genuinely terrifying option. +1 speed and +1 attack floofy bug will sweep a lot of teams.
Finally as just a fire type nuke, hard to go wrong with Chi Yu. I actually think this mon will take a while to get banned, since its 100 speed will look slow compared to the hyper offence at the start, it has no good speed boosting option, and hates the numerous dark types the starting meta has. Still, if you just want to click funny fire button go boom like Victini or Darm, Chi Yu is probably your best bet. (I guess there's Zard, but eeehhhhh with hazard control as difficult as it's going to be, not convinced Zard will be a good option).
Snow
Slowking - Cetitan - Abomasnow
I'm rushing in here excited to tell you all about my new favourite combo: Slowking + Cetitan! Slowking can do the frosty teleport move to bring in Cetitan for free under snow. Since you'll want to try bring in a physical attacker versus Slowking, and not one who is a fire or fighting type, Cetitan will be in a perfect place facing something that will do not that much damage to it with its defence boost in snow. From there, Cetitan clicks belly drum, runs the old ice+ground super duper Mamo combo and dunks on everything. You can't even revenge it in snow with mach punch Breloom since Cetitan can just click ice shard for its last move and out-priority the priority.
There's also the option of Abomasnow, which isn't as laughable as it sounds originally. The defence boost goes a long way to making it much bulkier. It means it switches in pretty freely versus the Chad Dolphin. Plus it's going to be one of the few mons that take not much damage from Future Delibird, since it resists hydro and takes little from freeze dry. Considering how good Veil is, it's not a terrible option. However if you want screens + hail for the optimal Cetitan setup, Slowking can actually do that too. Run Oblivious over Regenerator if you are going dual screens to hard commit to the strategy. A bit silly but definitely viable.
Sand
Tyranitar - Hippowdon - Houndstone
I don't see a huge amount of space for Hippowdon in OU right away, but TTar definitely can fit in. But what is he going to do without his best buddy Excadrill? Team up with a good doggy! Not Lycanroc you silly, although I suppose if you squint really hard you can see a niche for it. No, it's with Houndstone. What does Houndstone do? Well, you know how Dracovish couldn't have Strong Jaw and Sand Rush at the same time, so you were "stuck" with "only" the 170 base power version? Well fear no more, because Houndstone has Last Respects, the 50 bp move that gets an extra 50bp for every mon of yours that faints. Meaning it's not difficult to see a last mon Houndstone under sand easily sweeping teams with its funny 300bp kill everything move.
It technically has coverage for all the darks with Play Rough, but let's be honest here. You might as well only run two moves on this mon, and the second should be Sleep Talk.
Rain
Pelipper - Barraskewda - Drednaw - Palafin
Rain is kinda shit out of luck. Yeah you have Pelipper, but Barraskewda lost flip turn in the generational shift, and Skewda without flip turn dropped to RU in Gen 8. Your best swift swim sweeper is Drednaw. Drednaw! I've actually used Drednaw in UU and it's not that bad. It's pretty much exactly the same as Kabutops (SD + Liquidation + Head Smash + Megahorn). Your best bet would be using rain to boost hard hitting water types like Palafin or maybe Quaquaval? That is, until Home is released and we get the Hisui mons. There's Overquil, but you also get the unholy abomination that is Basculegion for the brief 5 seconds before it's banned.
Late but probably still on time, I also agree with this sentiment. Tera Blast giving mons Hidden Power v2.0 if they have used Tera is strong, but I think this needs a bit more looking into.I agree with the view that if Terastallization is deemed broken, that Tera Blast should be suspected before Terastallization is suspected, because i think that there are quite a few mons that are broken with terablast that wouldnt be broken without it, like palafin, kartana or volcarona.
I can't believe you've got me looking through Golduck's movepool on a Thursday night.You think Golduck would have any viability as a rather niche swift swimmer this gen? It got access to Nasty Plot (only pokemon with Swift Swim + Nasty Plot I’m aware of), has reasonable coverage options (Ice Beam, Focus Blast, Psychic, also Flip Turn), and the same offensive stats as Kingdra (95 sp atk, 85 speed). By no means would it ever be OU I’m just wondering if it’d have any viability at all (I’m also saying this with the assumption terra is banned)
w discussion about whether tera blast is the broken element going on now, I definitely could see that being the true cause of my issues w it above. w/o tera blast, your movepool restricts your ability to change your answers greatly (you could compare this to z-moves letting you beat traditional checks but only in a way limited by movepool perhaps?).I think people are overrating defensive terastellization and not realizing the true brokenness of offensive terastellization and here's why.
As a refresher on a couple absolutely key aspects- 1) you must choose the tera type (for each mon) BEFORE battle (in the teambuilder) and it cannot change 2) you can only use it once per battle. 3) you cannot retract the tera (i.e. you cant change back to normal)
So, let's say there's something like a dozen-2 dozen huge offensive threats in the metagame. When building a team (that you want to be able to switch into most stuff- extremely offensive teams aren't so much affected), not only do you have to account for them non-tera'd (already a difficult task) you have to make sure you dont lose to any of their teras - remember basically every offensive mon can take use of terastellization (tera blast and if nothing else just boosting stab). This is hard enough as-is because it kinda requires you to bring multiple answers for most pokemon in the metagame due to every pokemon learning tera blast (for a concrete example, you cannot rely on just torn/corv/skarm anymore for a defensive answer to kartana due to electric tera blast, but you also can't just rely on buzzwole or dragonite because what if it has fire/ice tera blast, so if you want to not just instalose to half of kartana sets you need to run multiple answers). defensive teratyping helps, but not enough to alleviate this undue burden on teambuilding.
Equally importantly, what happens even if you manage to get in a matchup where you're sure you can beat every opposing mon (regardless of whether it teras or not), albeit possibly at the very real cost of your tera. Maybe you need two of your defensive pokemon to tera to take on the other team and have to choose which you'd rather lose a mon to every time it comes in. Maybe your only check to one mon can only check it while unterad but needs to tera to answer another huge threat. Finally, using your tera just to stave off a huge offensive threat kinda sucks because it's not nearly as much of an impact as making a similar threat yourself.
However, most importantly, due to every pokemon being able to change it's set of answers at the drop of a hat, you cannot safely swap into anything because it could just get blown up by random tera blast (or tera boosted stab, which is especially important due to it's ability to just blanket deny pivoting around it with smth like torn-t or rotom-w by just killing) and congrats! it's 5-6. sure hope you didn't need that for something else! Having to just blindly guess what tera type something is to know what could possibly deal with it is not a good thing. Of course, you can somewhat tell from the team (a magnezone kart team isn't gonna be using electric tera blast) but it's still a shitty guessing game.
anyway thats most of my thoughts thanks for reading have a great day
I'm curious both why Enamorus is on your tier list given it's not in the game yet and why you feel both forms will be immediately Uber, more so than terrifyingly optimised threats like Flutter Mane.here is a quick tier list.
what are these takes lol. what is bellibolt doing in UU with that defensive typing and gastrodon existing? why would wo-chien be any different from zarude? why would enamorus-therian (moonblast+ep bot) be Ubers in a meta with corviknight? have you seen meowskarada's movepool? what on earth is walling quaquaval in NU, and why would it not be higher??? very confusing stuff all-aroundOk, before I do the Tera list for all the new Pokemon, here is a quick tier list. Keep in mind that some Pokemon like Cyclizar are only OU because of a move they have that may or may not be banned.
Third is that Mold Breaker actually has a ton of applications for its.
Also abilities aren’t great
Gl hitting 10 times with Popu Bomb. It is strong but normally gonna hit around 5 times especially whitout skill linkAlso so this isn’t a 1 liner here’s a Maushold calc
+1 252+ Atk Technician Maushold Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 210-250 (52.5 - 62.5%) -- approx. 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Not 100% accurate since I used Tail Slap as a base since there is no move that hits 10 times, but this is a general idea.
It's not like fury attack, it's like triple axel where it will always hit 10 times unless you miss. With wide lens it has 99% accuracy so you will usually get 10 hitsGl hitting 10 times with Popu Bomb. It is strong but normally gonna hit around 5 times especially whitout skill link
My bad.. i think it was mostly a roll betwen 1 and 10 instead of each hit having his own acc roll.It's not like fury attack, it's like triple axel where it will always hit 10 times unless you miss. With wide lens it has 99% accuracy so you will usually get 10 hits
5 bucks walls itOne likely trashmon that's got potential to be useful during the early-meta chaos, even if it probably won't be later:
Flamigo is, by far, the fastest Scrappy Fighting type we've ever had, and there are gonna be a lot of ghost types (tera and otherwise) floating around trying to protect the many dark types. Being able to just click CC and win is a nice trait to have, and Flying coverage is gonna be nice to have in this meta, too. It wishes it had a bit more speed, but with Scarf, it might be a great cleaner (hates Tox and Slowbro, obviously):
252 Atk Flamigo Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Iron Treads: 306-362 (79.6 - 94.2%)
252 Atk Flamigo Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gholdengo: 270-318 (71.4 - 84.1%)
252 Atk Flamigo Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Great Tusk: 284-336 (65.4 - 77.4%)
252 Atk Flamigo Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 229-270 (72.2 - 85.1%)
Or, as long as you're playing with a meme mon, go straight for the meme set:
CC/Acrobatics/SD/(Taunt/Roost/Electric Tera Blast)@Mirror Herb. Pop in to steal an obvious Rapid Spin or Tidy Up boost and just straight go to town. Just watch out for Chien-Pao.
Lord, I can't wait until midnight.
I mean, a 4x flying weakness is pretty hard to overcome:5 bucks walls it
Yeah, I was checking out their Github to see if there were any open PRs or Feature Requests I could help with, but there's understandably nothing publicly visible re: the progress there. There are are so many new interactions to add, the majority of which have only been (kinda) figured out in the past few days, that I would assume it will take at least through the weekend if not another week. I have no recollection of how long it took for Gen 8 to be available.but on another topic, how much do you guys think PS! will take to update to the new gen? because i dont think they are gonna have it all by midnight, that sounds impossible