Resource SS OU DLC2 Viability Ranking Thread [SEE: Page 105, Post 2618]

[Finchinator]

Thank you Finchy, very cool. Before I make my noms, I got a few questions.

-View attachment 425658 Veil is good but what was the reason it rose? Is it due to its mu against BO?

It enables a lot of the best win conditions in the tier to be even better, which is very challenging for all opposing playstyles to handle honestly.

-View attachment 425659 So happy that Ttar finally rose but I didn’t expect Drill? Is sand making a resurgence? Cause its been popping off in WCOP qualifiers rn.

See my response to Moyashi.

-View attachment 425660 Agreed that it being ranked was long overdue, but why such a huge rise? Doesn’t it struggle pretty badly with bulky waters and steels like Melm?

See my response to Totomon, but also, Hydro Pump is a good fourth and it can take out Melmetal from over half health, which is not hard for a HO team between the potential for SR, Hail, and other Pokemon like DD Dragapult, SD Dark types, Grasses like Kartana, etc. forcing chip onto it.

-View attachment 425661 Why’d Bulu drop but not Rilla?

See my response to Mimikyu Stardust when it comes to Tapu Bulu, but also Rillaboom has very little to do with it and we feel it had dropped enough previously to where the current rank reflects it properly.

-View attachment 425662 What was this thing doing in B- for so long lmao?

Not really answering questions about past slates here, but it is impossible to catch every single last Pokemon that could use a minor drop each time.

This time, we caught Rotom-H as a potential drop and it got the support, so we acted accordingly. That is all there is to it.

 

[Birdbrain103]

How did rise? I'm confused as to how it rose from the depths of UR

 

[Sp0oN1oRd]

I actually think lele could go to A+ as well. Has there been any use of 4 attacks sets? Recently I have been using calm mind sets but dropping cm for future sight. I also think cm is very strong when built around. Is it just too hard to fit?

 

[Red Raven]

What changed in the metagame that caused Garchomp to rise once more?

What about Tyranitar as well?

Also Slowking. What made it rise too?

Lastly, what about the Fini and Magnezone drops?

 

[Finchinator]

How did rise? I'm confused as to how it rose from the depths of UR

Fringe Rain option with a unique offensive profile, which was enough to give it a niche.

I actually think lele could go to A+ as well. Has there been any use of 4 attacks sets? Recently I have been using calm mind sets but dropping cm for future sight. I also think cm is very strong when built around. Is it just too hard to fit?

Partially answered mostly in response to clementinabroccolina, but regarding that, not really. If it pops up more and does well, we will happily reevaluate next slate like any other future development, so keep on fighting!

What changed in the metagame that caused Garchomp to rise once more?

Less people forcing it to run SR+SD, enabling a third attack and more focus on breaking. This coupled with it becoming a regular on HO, which provides it direct support in terms of Veil/Screens and indirect support in terms of synergistic attacking teammates, allows for it to maximize its offensive potential in this metagame.

What about Tyranitar as well?

Just more Sand teams -- disrupts other weather, provides chip, and so on. Tyranitar itself is also a nice Ghost resist and even Psychic immunity.

Also Slowking. What made it rise too?

Being able to stomach things like Heatran, Slowking-Galar, and Tapu Lele while being a practical pivot goes a long way. It also is not passive thanks to Teleport, Future Sight, Scald, and Regenerator.

Lastly, what about the Fini and Magnezone drops?

Tapu Fini always straddled the line between A+ and A, which it continues to do, but ultimately there is just too much competition among bulky waters for it to justify that ranking in A+.

Magnezone is still a solid option of course, but there is less demand for it as we see both Ferrothorn and Corviknight also take small drops. In addition, it is hard to fit on some structures as teams are more strapped for slots than ever before.

 

[clementinabroccolina]

Forgot to ask earlier lol but what was ultimately the reason Regidrago did not make it to C-? I agree with it being UR but it definitely had some controversy around it

 

[658Greninja]

One more thing to add about Fini’s drop.

It has the tragic flaw of being tasked with checking multiple threats (Weavile, Urshifu, Tran, Dnite, Rain, etc) which due to the fact that they are not only sometimes paired with each other, but due to its vulnerability to Knock and hazards, Fini ends up getting overwhelmed in practice. Stall has gotten better vs its sets with Shed Pex and Glowking. It also doesn’t appreciate Volcanion and Veil usage increasing. Thus, it dropped.

 

[Finchinator]

Forgot to ask earlier lol but what was ultimately the reason Regidrago did not make it to C-? I agree with it being UR but it definitely had some controversy around it

Regidrago being unranked is a no-brainer. It is a liability in far more games than not, effectively doing nothing in a tier where you need every team slot desperately as is. It also provides no defensive value, warrants massive support, and sees minimal-to-no serious usage in the tier.

The fact that this thread had so many serious posts about Regidrago was one of the more baffling and stupid things I have seen, and that says a lot seeing as I have been involved with leading this tier almost all generation and this thread all generation.

 

[Red Raven]

I also forgot to ask, what was the reasoning that Landorus is still S rank while Heatran and Weavile are S-? Weren't there that many agreements that the two rankings be merged?

 

[Finchinator]

I also forgot to ask, what was the reasoning that Landorus is still S rank while Heatran and Weavile are S-? Weren't there that many agreements that the two rankings be merged?

There may have been arguments, but none of them resonated enough. Landorus-T was voted on and it received more than enough support to remain by itself.

 

[Moyashi]

I've been reminded I forgot to ask about it so... Why didn't Rilla drop? Unless this was answered already in which case feel free to ignore this.

 

[Esca D. Sulphate]

I can sort of understand Zard going UR, with Sun already being a fringe archetype and Zard a fringe pick on it, but for what reason did only Zard get axed and not Darmanitan?

Edit so no double post: I also vaguely remember a Tyrantrum nom a while ago, did anything happen w that?

 

[Lord Xen III]

• from C- to UR

why did this sticky web setter drop, but not shuckle? Not a major point either way but genuinely curious as I saw a lot of people argue that shuckle is the worst one of the two.

 

[Fenghuang]

Lmao, so much regidrago discourse and it remains UR. I agree, the amount of regidrago discourse is rather baffling.

I don't see it asked but it's possible I missed it- why did steela rise? Was a new set discovered, or is it just people realizing that it was always good?

 

[Genhui]

Wondering why Garchomp rose, and why pex and fini fell.

 

[Cdijk16]

Quick question: Why did Hawlucha drop?

 

[Eeveeto]

Not a council but I can answer about Chomp. A well used SD Chomp can make progress against any kind of team. The best part is that it really only has 2 forced moves, SD and EQ. The other 2 slots are very flexible and while I think Fire Fang and Scale Shot are the superior moves, the options for not one but two slots are very flexible: Rocks, Sub, Fire Blast, Aqua Tail, Toxic, Protect, Endure, SE and pretty sure I am forgetting something. Item is also highly customizable, having Lefties, LO, several berries and Rocky Helmet to choose from. And this is just the SD set, but Chomp can also be Pdef and Sdef with many viable moves there too. To sum it up, with good typing, great Stats and enough movepool to fit and adapt to any team, A+ is clearly justified and honestly, the only reason for not being straight up S is competition with Lando.

 

[RedDiamond1024]

I have some questions myself:
Why did zard to UR and not Darm? I feel like that are about equal in terms of viability.(personally feel like zard should have stayed c-)

Where is ferro falling off? Is it in tournament games cause afaik its the second most used mon in the tier behind lando himself.

Finally, why didn't scizor drop any further from B?

 

[5camp]

Literally crying and vomiting in the club right now.

How high do I need to get on the ladder to get Alolan Raichu ranked? I'm sorry my goodest surfing boi, I failed you.

But really, why wasn't Alolachu ranked?

 

[Red Raven]

Where is ferro falling off? Is it in tournament games cause afaik its the second most used mon in the tier behind lando himself.

I'm gonna quote Finch on this one. " Ferrothorn was another borderline one, but a lot of common Defog users handle it and we see a lot of offensive teams that kind of ignore it without any issue, making it slightly less common and effective overall. "

Why did zard to UR and not Darm? I feel like that are about equal in terms of viability.(personally feel like zard should have stayed c-)

Probably because Zard is more difficult to support than Darm. I mean, regular rock weakness vs double rock weakness. Not only that, Zard also dies pretty fast with solar power. While Darm can also die just as easily, it also has access to u turn so it can pretty much choose when to kill itself or not. That's my guess anyway

 

[Eeveeto]

I have some questions myself:
Why did zard to UR and not Darm? I feel like that are about equal in terms of viability.(personally feel like zard should have stayed c-)

Where is ferro falling off? Is it in tournament games cause afaik its the second most used mon in the tier behind lando himself.

Finally, why didn't scizor drop any further from B?

Darmanitan is easier to fit in Sun teams not only due to not having the x4 rocks weakness, but also Darmanitan kills himself by attacking, while Zard kills himself by just being on the field in Sun. Also, Darm is better when Sun it's not present too, since Zard often runs Weather Ball as the main Fire Move, Solar Beam is another usable move, but only in Sun. Though I do agree that entirely unranking Zard is a mistake.

The guy above me already covered Ferro well enough, though in my book it would be even lower, B- or something like that, but I can understand why few people would agree on that.

Regarding Scizor, it's still a slow steel pivot that depending on the spread can check Lele, Weavile, Kartana, Melmetal, Clefable, Hail, Rillaboom and several other things, while providing Defog, Knock or sweeping potential with SD. Yes, he is not reliable at checking some of those threats, but he doesn't need to be, switching a couple of times in order to use a slow U-Turn to help your Dragapult, Lele or Weavile to come in safely to break might be enough. Being the only Steel apart from the birds, Jirachi and the rare Synthesis Kartana to be able to heal is another big plus Scizor has. B rank sounds right for a Mon like this one, you just need to know it's limits and don't over-rely on it. Kyurem's ban is very far from the end of Scizor.

 

[LudwigFrog]

What prevented Regieleki from rising?

 

[Eeveeto]

What prevented Regieleki from rising?

Literally the same thing that prevented (though I don't agree with this) Regidrago being ranked: every team has a Ground type, some have more than one. There are better screen setters as well, while Excadrill can Spin too with much better defensive (and in Sand offensive too) utility.

 

[Lord Xen III]

Darmanitan is easier to fit in Sun teams not only due to not having the x4 rocks weakness, but also Darmanitan kills himself by attacking, while Zard kills himself by just being on the field in Sun. Also, Darm is better when Sun it's not present too, since Zard often runs Weather Ball as the main Fire Move, Solar Beam is another usable move, but only in Sun. Though I do agree that entirely unranking Zard is a mistake.

The guy above me already covered Ferro well enough, though in my book it would be even lower, B- or something like that, but I can understand why few people would agree on that.

Regarding Scizor, it's still a slow steel pivot that depending on the spread can check Lele, Weavile, Kartana, Melmetal, Clefable, Hail, Rillaboom and several other things, while providing Defog, Knock or sweeping potential with SD. Yes, he is not reliable at checking some of those threats, but he doesn't need to be, switching a couple of times in order to use a slow U-Turn to help your Dragapult, Lele or Weavile to come in safely to break might be enough. Being the only Steel apart from the birds, Jirachi and the rare Synthesis Kartana to be able to heal is another big plus Scizor has. B rank sounds right for a Mon like this one, you just need to know it's limits and don't over-rely on it. Kyurem's ban is very far from the end of Scizor.

I'm gonna quote Finch on this one. " Ferrothorn was another borderline one, but a lot of common Defog users handle it and we see a lot of offensive teams that kind of ignore it without any issue, making it slightly less common and effective overall. "



Probably because Zard is more difficult to support than Darm. I mean, regular rock weakness vs double rock weakness. Not only that, Zard also dies pretty fast with solar power. While Darm can also die just as easily, it also has access to u turn so it can pretty much choose when to kill itself or not. That's my guess anyway

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...ad-see-page-90-post-2242.3674058/post-8959344

This is an old post by Finchinator, but from what i can tell Zard had those same disadvantages back then as it does now.

 

[Eeveeto]

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...ad-see-page-90-post-2242.3674058/post-8959344

This is an old post by Finchinator, but from what i can tell Zard had those same disadvantages back then as it does now.

And that's why I mentioned that I disagree with unranking Zard. However, the main goal of my post was to explain why Darmanitan is better than Zard and when one was chosen to be unranked, Zard made more sense for it. Btw, I also think Kanto Ninetales is a better Fire Mon in OU than Zard too, it can use NP and smash Pex and Tran with Scorching Sands, though dragon types are way tougher to break in exchange.