Reuniclus does not get Volt Switch.
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Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion Thread v7 (Usage Stats in post #3539)
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
I think he’s mixing up reality and the gen 6 OU Theorymon thread.
Nah, I just mixed up the mons - the notable exception is actually my brain, which is very slow by default, but has the ability to pivot right out of this thread for a while. No Future Sight apparently though.
Regenerator+Pivot move:
Torn-T, Mienshao, Audino(Healing Wish).
With the addition of Flip Turn and Teleport this gen, the first pivot moves since Gen IV, I think it's worth discussing the role of switching in general. We've banned Arena Trap/Shadow Tag for making switching too hard, and Baton Pass was broken in part because it resolving after you saw your oppt's switch made switching into a counter too easy. Dynamax makes it impossible to switch your oppt out and was banned for having no counters. Endless Battles relied on Block to pull off. People have wanted rocks banned for generations for punishing switching too much, and this gen people want HDB banned for making pivoting around too safe. Even Sleep Clause exists partly to keep someone from sitting there spamming Sleep on an expected switch.
IDK, this is almost definitely a policy review discussion, but I just think there's a lot to unpack about switching and where we as a community want it to be vs where GF has it.
I would honestly rather have the slowtwins suspected before we even think about retesting Cinderace. Future sight I feel was the one thing that made it able to secure a lot of 2hkos or ohkos. At least with slowking-galar, it cannot teleport, thus it has to risk switching out and getting its teammate hit and potentially taken out due to the fact the opponent can attack on the next turn. But, honestly before suspect testing Pult, A Slowtwins test and a Cinderace retest should be done. However choosing between ace and slowtwins, slowtwins honestly come first. I would be all for sending those two to ubers prior to a cinderace suspect, as it could drastically change the result of the test and make Cinderace less overbearing. Also item clause and heavy-duty boots ban, I do not think it would do the metagame any favors, if anything it probably hurts a lot of pokemon and thus makes the metagame worse.
I'm glad that most people acknowledge pivot moves plus boots being a problem rather than boots itself. Boots make both rocks weak pokemon and pivot users better, but only the latter is potentially a problem. To add on the boots + pivot move discussion, here are the list of OU abusers versus the pokemon that just use boots without a pivot move.
boots + pivot:
(note zapdos does not always run a pivot move)
boots only: 
(torn-t is in both categories since both its nasty plot and u-turn set uses boots and moltres gets u-turn but i never see it use the move)
If boots is actually the problem, then why do most of OU's boots users carry a pivot move? Also, if you take a look at boots users that are not weak to rocks like blissey koko dragapult slowtwins and zeraora, why do almost all of them have a pivot move? There are stuff like ttar and pex that can make good use of boots, but why dont they run it as often?
It's starting to look like the only options we have is to ban an item, ban a set of moves, or have a clause. You can try to ban the most prominent abusers like slowtwins, dragapult, possibly torn-t but i think new users would just rise up. We've seen this with cinderace and pheramosa. they were banned yet the meta is still a switchfest. Either way it would be interesting to see what decision would be made since this is situation is more complex than trapping or luck based items. Im just happy that i see people point out that the specific problem is boots+pivoting so if a conclusion were to be made, every relevant aspect (boots, switching moves, possibility of a clause) has been considered.
boots + pivot:
(note zapdos does not always run a pivot move)boots only:
(torn-t is in both categories since both its nasty plot and u-turn set uses boots and moltres gets u-turn but i never see it use the move)If boots is actually the problem, then why do most of OU's boots users carry a pivot move? Also, if you take a look at boots users that are not weak to rocks like blissey koko dragapult slowtwins and zeraora, why do almost all of them have a pivot move? There are stuff like ttar and pex that can make good use of boots, but why dont they run it as often?
It's starting to look like the only options we have is to ban an item, ban a set of moves, or have a clause. You can try to ban the most prominent abusers like slowtwins, dragapult, possibly torn-t but i think new users would just rise up. We've seen this with cinderace and pheramosa. they were banned yet the meta is still a switchfest. Either way it would be interesting to see what decision would be made since this is situation is more complex than trapping or luck based items. Im just happy that i see people point out that the specific problem is boots+pivoting so if a conclusion were to be made, every relevant aspect (boots, switching moves, possibility of a clause) has been considered.
I personally think that the current meta is OK, and specifically that boots are fine. I do not believe that the slowtwins are at all broken, although I can understand the reasoning. Dragapult is my main gripe with the metagame at present, however. It's just so damn hard to deal with defensively, and I've found that I feel forced to put Mandi on every team or get destroyed
The problem with this line of reasoning is that boots+pivot move isn’t broken on every mon with a pivot move. Since boots is an item, there isn’t really a precedent for this since as far as I‘m aware (correct me if I’m wrong), no item has ever been banned on the grounds of being completely broken on (Other than mega stones and soul dew which have specific users). However, if we compare boots+pivot move to broken abilities, then I can’t see boots+pivot move being broken. Moody made Glalie and Octillery broken, Arena Trap and Shadow Tag made Dugtrio and Gothitelle broken, but all other these mons are garbage otherwise. Boots+pivot move doesn’t automatically make garbage stuff broken-take Ninjask, a 4x rock weak mon with U-turn. It isn’t broken with boots+pivot move. The problem here, if there is one, are the mons themselves, therefore a clause or complex ban isn’t the answer. I personally think the meta is fairly stable atm-the only things I would support a suspect for are Heatran and maybe Dragapult.Tacotaco said:I'm glad that most people acknowledge pivot moves plus boots being a problem rather than boots itself. Boots make both rocks weak pokemon and pivot users better, but only the latter is potentially a problem. To add on the boots + pivot move discussion, here are the list of OU abusers versus the pokemon that just use boots without a pivot move.
boots + pivot:
boots only:
If boots is actually the problem, then why do most of OU's boots users carry a pivot move? Also, if you take a look at boots users that are not weak to rocks like blissey koko dragapult slowtwins and zeraora, why do almost all of them have a pivot move? There are stuff like ttar and pex that can make good use of boots, but why dont they run it as often?
It's starting to look like the only options we have is to ban an item, ban a set of moves, or have a clause. You can try to ban the most prominent abusers like slowtwins, dragapult, possibly torn-t but i think new users would just rise up. We've seen this with cinderace and pheramosa. they were banned yet the meta is still a switchfest. Either way it would be interesting to see what decision would be made since this is situation is more complex than trapping or luck based items. Im just happy that i see people point out that the specific problem is boots+pivoting so if a conclusion were to be made, every relevant aspect (boots, switching moves, possibility of a clause) has been considered.
Red Raven
I COULD BE BANNED!
When it comes to this metagame, I'm not exactly that fond of it. I do find it incredibly balanced but my favorite is still the time when Spectrier was around. That horse reminded me of attacking Dalaran in Warcraft III and how satisfying that mission was but that's just me
About boots, everyone already knows what I think. It makes switch moves brainless and too risk free to use and it sometimes makes battles drag on for no god damn reason. I don't even think that if it gets banned then the game would be hazard centric. There are a lot of defog users in the tier and all of them do a lot more than just clicking defog. I even think that regenerator somewhat balances the effects of hazards because defensive mons are not hard pressed to click a recovery move just so they can continue checking the threats they're supposed to check. Honestly, like with teleport, I think it reduces the skill ceiling because you don't have to be that smart about using hazard vulnerable pokemon like Volcarona and you can just spam switch moves far too riskless. Oh and let's not start another three page argument about this unless we're willing to drive the mods mad. I know I am :P
I don't find the slowtwins that problematic at all. I think it would be a mistake to ban them because they are such good defensive pillars. They have their own shortcomings but really, what mon doesn't. I would say that the biggest offender for the slowtwins is teleport. They have access to the unholy trinity of future sight, teleport and regenerator but I think that far too precise positioning of teleport makes this too powerful. Galarian Slowking has access to fs and regenerator but isn't problematic at all. The ability to fire off fs and get in an appropriate breaker is what makes this strategy so strong for me. I already said this before, I think teleport also reduces the skill ceiling because you don't have to predict how your opponent will respond because you will see it. To be honest, this near risk free nature is a bit too much for my taste. Besides, if the slowtwins get banned, are we really gonna give Toxapex the satisfaction of being on every single team?
With the topic of Dragapult, while I don't think it is broken, I can understand where everyone is coming from. This mon is the incarnation of offensive irritation. I mean that literally because Ferrothorn is still the incarnation of absolute irritation. I'm even spamming scarf Garchomp just because it is so satisfying to get rid of this irritation on the first turn, even if I end up losing the battle at least I've had the satisfaction to render this mon useless
I feel like how the metagame plays is that you get to choose which mons you are defensively safe from and which mons you need to offensively check. There's always gonna be one or two mons that a defensive core won't be able to cover and your offensive threats should be able to deal with them so you need to get timings right and get your own check the moment that undefended threat comes in. If I had to describe this metagame, I'd say there is too many offensive threats but that just promotes aggressive play and predictions which I absolutely love
On the chatter about dark Urshifu being retested, just no, please no. That mon is far too overcentralizing in the game. With Cinderace, I didn't think it was broken at all and while it was so annoying with that dumbass boots, I didn't find it overwhelming personally. However, I honestly think that before any suspects or retests happens, futureport should be looked at first, both individually and the abusers, which I guess are only the slowtwins
About boots, everyone already knows what I think. It makes switch moves brainless and too risk free to use and it sometimes makes battles drag on for no god damn reason. I don't even think that if it gets banned then the game would be hazard centric. There are a lot of defog users in the tier and all of them do a lot more than just clicking defog. I even think that regenerator somewhat balances the effects of hazards because defensive mons are not hard pressed to click a recovery move just so they can continue checking the threats they're supposed to check. Honestly, like with teleport, I think it reduces the skill ceiling because you don't have to be that smart about using hazard vulnerable pokemon like Volcarona and you can just spam switch moves far too riskless. Oh and let's not start another three page argument about this unless we're willing to drive the mods mad. I know I am :P
I don't find the slowtwins that problematic at all. I think it would be a mistake to ban them because they are such good defensive pillars. They have their own shortcomings but really, what mon doesn't. I would say that the biggest offender for the slowtwins is teleport. They have access to the unholy trinity of future sight, teleport and regenerator but I think that far too precise positioning of teleport makes this too powerful. Galarian Slowking has access to fs and regenerator but isn't problematic at all. The ability to fire off fs and get in an appropriate breaker is what makes this strategy so strong for me. I already said this before, I think teleport also reduces the skill ceiling because you don't have to predict how your opponent will respond because you will see it. To be honest, this near risk free nature is a bit too much for my taste. Besides, if the slowtwins get banned, are we really gonna give Toxapex the satisfaction of being on every single team?
With the topic of Dragapult, while I don't think it is broken, I can understand where everyone is coming from. This mon is the incarnation of offensive irritation. I mean that literally because Ferrothorn is still the incarnation of absolute irritation. I'm even spamming scarf Garchomp just because it is so satisfying to get rid of this irritation on the first turn, even if I end up losing the battle at least I've had the satisfaction to render this mon useless
I feel like how the metagame plays is that you get to choose which mons you are defensively safe from and which mons you need to offensively check. There's always gonna be one or two mons that a defensive core won't be able to cover and your offensive threats should be able to deal with them so you need to get timings right and get your own check the moment that undefended threat comes in. If I had to describe this metagame, I'd say there is too many offensive threats but that just promotes aggressive play and predictions which I absolutely love
On the chatter about dark Urshifu being retested, just no, please no. That mon is far too overcentralizing in the game. With Cinderace, I didn't think it was broken at all and while it was so annoying with that dumbass boots, I didn't find it overwhelming personally. However, I honestly think that before any suspects or retests happens, futureport should be looked at first, both individually and the abusers, which I guess are only the slowtwins
to preface the idea of urshifu-single being freed in part of this discussion especially without the relevance of teleport / fs which heavily limits its defensive counterplay is laughably heinous, as the meta will be again forced into a merry-go-round of clefable, buzzwole n such and the same timelapse of the urshifu-single meta will be on loop.
fs + wallbreaker is literally the way to play, being utilized as a clear-cut offensive tool and being easily definitive (teleport is always a 1up). i would personally be okay with suspecting fs as a mechanic and scrolling through feedback in the thread for people who voiced their thoughts. relevance of boots in the meta would add a layer of identity to the meta (which could be completely irrelevant if we're voicing what to susp and what not to) and there's already some consistent knock off counterplay which is an extremely splashable move offensively and defensively.
theres been a lot of frequency of pult ban discussions recently, a suspect could be ideal, but i dont have that many views on it currently. personally feel it's ok but i can understand other people's views on it.
fs + wallbreaker is literally the way to play, being utilized as a clear-cut offensive tool and being easily definitive (teleport is always a 1up). i would personally be okay with suspecting fs as a mechanic and scrolling through feedback in the thread for people who voiced their thoughts. relevance of boots in the meta would add a layer of identity to the meta (which could be completely irrelevant if we're voicing what to susp and what not to) and there's already some consistent knock off counterplay which is an extremely splashable move offensively and defensively.
theres been a lot of frequency of pult ban discussions recently, a suspect could be ideal, but i dont have that many views on it currently. personally feel it's ok but i can understand other people's views on it.
I'm nowhere near on board with action being taken on the Slowtwins - on the contrary, I appreciate what they add to the metagame - but if action is to be taken we have to recognise that the concerns raised by people in this thread centre solely on the Pokemon themselves. They possess a unique assortment of traits that make them stand out from any other Pokemon, namely: stats, typing, ability, movepool, and their place in the metagame. Isolating any one of these factors is incoherent, just as it would be incoherent in previous generations to isolate Speed Boost when dealing with Blaziken, or Sheer Force when dealing with Landorus-I.
I do not think we should look to retest anything at this exact moment in time. This includes Urshifu-S, Darmanitan-G, Dracovish, and anything else mentioned recently. There may be a time for them in the future, but I am not on board yet.
That was me. Way to give the jellyman some love. Marvelous set and break down of its positive attributes.
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But I thought I’d pipe in on the subject of Dragapult:
I see all the saber rattling, but I counter with the notion that I rather enjoy the fact that the OU meta is not full of cancerous Substitute antics like Toxic Aegislash and Pressure Kyruem/Suicune and paralysis spam + any set up sweeper. We largely have Infiltrator Dragapult to thank for that.
I ask you, what’s the alternative counterplay to Substitutes?
Phasing is not a reliable way to deal with Substitute, because it always requires the phaser to take a hit, and push out the sub user, and ultimately, this can even be a moot point in the event the sub user is the last member of the opponent’s team.
Offensive counterplay is difficult, as sound moves are rare (and the users like Kommo-O and Sylveon and Toxitricity aren’t all that great) and multi-hit moves can be resisted by the best Sub users.
Chew on that for a bit.
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I’m also going to continue to play devil’s advocate and say people are severely understating counterplay to Specs Dragapult.
On the defensive end, Specs, or any choiced mon actually, can absolutely be played around with Protect (or its various counterparts). In this way, it’s coverage can easily be played around.
And you might counter that with, using Protect against Dragapult leads to its Substitute sets being free to set up, but come on, people aren’t complaining about Sub Dragon Dance Pult or Sub Hex because these sets are far less mindless and have ample counterplay.
I also would like to point out that there are many good defensive mons that are underutilized that can fully handle Dragapult. Besides the obvious ones like Teleport Blissey, Sp Def Hippowdon and Mandibuzz, Umbreon and Porygon 2 handle every variation Pult can come out with, and Sp Def Curse Snorlax can set on on Pult while being a nice win con. You can get a little creative. You don’t have to get triggered Pult U-Turned on your T-Tar again. :/
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Offensively, priority is a fairly obvious way to put Pult in a checkmate, but I haven’t seen scarfs brought up often. Landorus, Kartana, Garchomp, Tapu Lele, Hydregion and Gengar all are great scarfers that can out speed and kill Pult besides being generally useful in the meta.
Hell, I’m actually a fan of Scarf Indedee because it checks priority users like Rillaboom and Scizor, can spam absurdly powerful Exploding Force/Future Sights, catch Steels on the switch in with Mystic Fire, Trick Scarf special walls, AND... it’s immune to Shadow Ball.
Take that Pult.
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In summary, I think Dragapult is a great Pokémon, but it is by no means broken.
Honestly, I have a more difficult time switching into Magma Storm Heatran outside of Shed Shell water types and, ironically, Air Balloon Heatran, yet I see far less people complaining about that.
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First of all, most of the scarfers you listed are shit like garchomp and gengar
also most of the scarfer can’t even switch on pult meaning you have to use a reliable pivot to get it in.
grassy glide isn’t a priority move unless under terrain, also ur indeedee is gonna die to a specs draco.
252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Indeedee: 294-346 (112.6 - 132.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Nice Rillaboom check
umbreon, snorlax and p2????? What is this spectrier meta? These mons are unviable and they are really shit in this meta.
you can’t play around dragapults coverage, it legit has unresisted stab and has access to uturn
protect is only viable on shit like tank lefties chomp and are you gonna use some banded kartana protect shit to scout specs pult??? that’s dumb
Mystical fire indeedee prob gonna do 30 to corv and it’s a bad pick at least you getting “creative”
Here’s a thing abt pults checks, Mandi dies to uturn and then a draco
Let’s say ur tport blissey is ur only check to pult but oh noooo!!! It’s sub ddarts gz u are now walled and can’t to shit
Also sylveon is great
Spdef hippo is too passive and dies after a sball
In conclusion, these examples u said abt pult are just really bad and most of the things u listed are unviable, sorry for making this post
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There is so many things wrong here. Firstly, nothing ever really runs Protect in this meta except the rare Baneful Bunker Toxapex, since Substitute antics are just better. Also, Substitute antics are easy to play around even w/o Infiltrator. No one is putting Pult on their team to specifically beat Sub users. It can’t even switch in to your said examples without a Teleport user, so I don’t get the point of this. Substitute isn’t even hard to deal with. Pressuring the Pokemon that can beat isn’t really an excuse. I could say “ban stall because it cripples most wall breakers and is more or less unbeatable at an endgame point” and it would give off the same kind of energy.
Second, these checks that you listed are otherwise niche or unviable within the OU metagame, so having to slap them on just to deal with one mon shows the restrictiveness Pult pressures the tier with. Also, no one will run these Pokemon just for Pult anyways due to their flaws, such as P2 being Knock fodder, or Snorlax just being flat out bad right now. I don’t care if people 6-0 with it, it’s still bad. Special Defensive Hippo can’t take a Shadow Ball, and Mandibuzz dies to minor chip to Draco Meteor. I feel like if you really want to check something, you need to be able to do something else in the meta, which none of the RU mons do.
Thirdly, many of these offensive counterplay choices aren’t great. Who in their right mind is running Scarf Garchomp? Its an unviable set right now, and there’s more or less no reason to run it. None of these scarfers can switchin either. Landorus Therian takes 70 from Shadow Ball, Scarf Kartana is a mid tier in its own right, Scarf Lele perishes to Shadow Ball, and Gengar perishes in general. Scarf Indeedee is a joke. It doesn’t even beat Rilla, since it just dies to Grassy Glide, which isn’t priority in Psychic Terrain, and it doesn’t even guarantee an OHKO on Pult.
252 SpA Indeedee Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragapult in Psychic Terrain: 277-327 (87.3 - 103.1%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
Sure, “minor chip”, but how are you getting that reliably if it gets in by means of a slow pivot? Also it dies to Draco Meteor, and takes 70 from U-Turn.
0- Atk Dragapult U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Indeedee: 170-202 (65.1 - 77.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This post felt somewhat misinformed from the reactions of people around me, so it felt right to discuss the issues here.
Oh boy, here we go.
For one, Dragapult is never put on the team as an answer to Substitute. Dragapult is used because it is good offensively and can win the game quickly once their check is dealt with. It CAN beat Substitute Aegislash and Kyurem, but that's only a realistic option if you have Teleport Blissey or Teleport Slowking on your team, as Dragapult never wants to switch into either of Aegislash or Kyurem.
Having a Pokemon that forces out Substitute users is a valid argument, assuming the Pokemon fits the role well. If you're running a Pokemon without recovery to deal with Substitute, that's on you.
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Protect is absolutely not a good choice to put on a lot of the OU Pokemon. The only three that would ever consider using it is Swampert, Heatran and Garchomp. Running Protect on your Mandibuzz to scout for a single Choiced threat probably means that the threat in question is overwhelming.
The Substitute Dragapult sets indeed have more counterplay than the Specs counterpart, but that counterplay is not going to be present on every team. If anything, my profile picture should remind you that a good Pokemon with multiple great sets that don't have similar counterplay can lead to being banned from a tier.
Each one of those options are good at not much more than switching into Specs Dragapult, bar Teleport Blissey, who loses if the Dragapult is anything but Specs. Mandibuzz in specific has taken a large fall due to not switching into Dragapult after taking anything over 20%. Forcing people to run Pokemon outside of OU for counterplay seems a little familiar, right?
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In terms of priority, Sucker Punch, Shadow Sneak, Bullet Punch and Ice Shard are the only priority moves Dragapult does not resist, Sucker Punch and Ice Shard being the most popular of them. However, not every team can run a Mamoswine or a Bisharp to answer Dragapult offensively (and neither can switch into Specs Pult, either.
Choice Scarf Indeedee, huh? Well, for one, Scarf Indeedee can't switch in on Rillaboom at all, assuming it's male. Banded Grassy Glide would still kill even without the terrain boost (not mentioning Scarf Expanding Force almost never would OHKO).
Second, Indeedee is a much worse option than, say, the actual OU Psychic Terrain setter, Tapu Lele. Expanding Force from Male Indeedee is certainly stronger than a Lele Psychic, but use anything else besides Expanding Force, and Indeedee hits like a wet paper bag. Indeedee can't switch into any of the threats it wants to neutralize without Pivot support.
Choice Scarf Pokemon are not always going to be a ready answer to Dragapult, as one U-turn on the pivot you use to get said Choice Scarf Pokemon in to let in something like Heatran or Rillaboom is sometimes all your opponent needs to get a massive lead.
imma use this fella just to handle pult now at this point. Rocks + teleport seems legit.
...how dare I just say "handle"? This doesn't just merely handle pult, it dominates it lol
Jokes aside, There aren't many good ghost resists at the moment that are good in the meta, it's more or less the same situation when we were trying to figure out how to counter Spectrier. Except this Spectrier is faster and has stab draco, actual coverage and U-turn. It's vastly weaker but that doesn't seem to be much of a problem.
#BringBackPursuit
There aren't any "good" Dragapult answer, the best you can get from Dragapult check is spdef Clefable. Every Dragapult checks have huge flaws against Dragapult;
- Blissey = get U-turn'd and lost to sub + DD unless it has Shadow Ball or Ice Beam.
- Mandibuzz = get U-turn'd, it easily takes a damaged chip and Draco Meteor will eventually 2HKO it. It can't take Spec Thunder.
- Hippowdon = take a lot of damage from Spec Shadow Ball and Draco Meteor. It gets crippled by WoW + Hex set.
- Umbreon = It basically takes 30-40% chips from U-turn + Stealth Rock then died to Spec Draco Meteor twice.
- Porygon-2 is a garbage pokemon to use.
All of the pokemon that is supposed to check Dragapult, but gets U-turn'd and lost to the coverage move/another set. Toxapex is another 'good' Dragapult check but it can't take Spec Thunder. It's not a good answer, it's an okay answer.
It's hard to punish Dragapult because we don't have Pursuit. It freely switches into any pokemon via U-turn/Teleport and threatening OHKO. Dragapult can punish everything that tries to beat it, it doesn't have any good counterplay due to the nature of U-turn + lack of a good ghost resists. Dragapult is basically Spectrier that is faster, better move pool and access to U-turn. I would be very interested in a Dragapult suspect test before anything.
I think dragapult should be tested. It is just to good and you cannot build a good team without having 1-2 pokemon that counter it. Like most of its checks lose to either specs, or hex and if not just get u-turned on like blissey, mandibuzz, and sp def pex just get taken advantage of by a teammate like weavile, kartana, and landorus-t. Specs can easily break teams lacking blissey and with team support it can easily even break blissey and mandibuzz with rocks and u-turn spam forcing them without an oppurtunity to heal. You cannot check it offensively to since its one of the fastest pokemon in the tier and none of them can switch in more than once or twice like bisharp, weavile, and heatran. It just seems to strain teambuiling so much and even would be checks and counters are just taken advantage of or are just brute forced through.
There is one way to actually check dragapult, but it really is not easy you could run something like banded weavile/bisharp with sucker punch. I am not sure if it OHKOs though. Dragapult as far as I know does not have priority moves so you can possibly take it out prior to u-turning if you are lucky. (It is unreliable however.)
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252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 236-278 (74.4 - 87.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Weavile doesn't learn Sucker Punch, as far as I know, so this is as close as you're gonna get. Bisharp, on the other hand...
252+ Atk Black Glasses Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 372-440 (117.3 - 138.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
You can definitely take Dragapult out with priority, but the difficulty of it comes to getting these Pokemon in front of Pult in the first place.
Also, Dragapult does have Sucker Punch itself, though I don't think anyone runs that on any set.
not just that, Pult can run wisp or Twave to cripple Bisharp and create 50/50 with Sucker in a pinch, and some sets run sub or disable
Gastrodon is a solid check to Specs Pult that people seem to be overlooking-you can even run Rocky Helmet if you want to punish U-Turn. I’m undecided about whether a Dragapult suspect would be a good thing or not atm. It lacks the raw power to make it obviously broken, but it’s offensive typing is very good. I suspect one of the reasons Dragapult’s speed is such an advantage for it is because there aren’t that many prominent scarfers in this gen-Kart and Lando-T are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head, and they don’t run scarf all the time.
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 135-159 (31.6 - 37.3%) -- 14.8% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor over 2 turns vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 326-385 (76.5 - 90.3%) -- not a KO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 135-159 (31.6 - 37.3%) -- 14.8% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor over 2 turns vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 326-385 (76.5 - 90.3%) -- not a KO
Gastrodon is not a very good check, if it even eats a bit of chip such as spikes, rocks it is now in 2hko range and has to switch out meaning it is weakened from its previous encounter and is not going to check it, plus shadow ball can drop and eventually beat it 1v1
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor over 2 turns vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 326-385 (76.5 - 90.3%) -- 18.8% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery
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Gastrodon gets U-turn'd + hazard entry, it takes about 25% damage chips and will be force to switch out after U-turn'd without using recover. Despite Dragapult have a 100 SpA base, it's still hit really hard because we have a lack of good counterplays for it. Dragapult has a massive effect on teambuilding. If your team don't have Dragapult and you slap Dragapult for something, your team is likely to get better while Dragapult demands 2 pokemon that can 'check' it on your team.