Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion Thread v7 (Usage Stats in post #3539)

Myzozoa

to find better ways to say what nobody says
is a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
The non HDB tour meta looked terrible from watching most of the games in that tournament. No thanks.
I think the no HDB meta advocators would also say that there would be a long iteration of suspect tests in the post-boots meta. I feel like the direction that has the most momentum behind it rn is that there will be no more suspect tests, unless new content is released, but I am not convinced that the meta we are playing rn is the best we could have and want to explore more bans. This is the main reason I'm sympathetic to a boots ban, if only for the sake of doing something that might get more centralization into this tier, where I feel team match-up is too determinant of results between skilled players atm.
 
the direction that has the most momentum behind it rn is that there will be no more suspect tests, unless new content is released,
To briefly elaborate on this, OU is not expecting new content any time soon. BDSP releases next Friday but it is expected to be isolated from SS for a long time, if not indefinitely, depending on what happens when Pokemon Home updates.

I don’t know what the council’s plans are, but to my knowledge, future suspects are not off the table despite the expectation of no new content. The most recent metagame survey alluded to that, anyway.
 
I'm the Creator of Chaos. Unless Asuma can assure me Megas or atleast mega Loppuny will be returning soon I'm gonna have to support Finch and say do the survey. I'm to chaotic not follow this decree and neither should any of you........

Ok so this post aint entirely about how great I am I do wanna say I'm glad Volcarona :Volcarona: is being looked at even if its just a cursory glance. Might just be my poor skill in gen 8 but the amount of pressure it puts on team builder and in battle is enormous. I always feel I'm 1 double switch away from auto losing and Thanks to boot's its even harder check then previous gens where it usually only got 1 shot at sweeping as opposed to now where it can come in multiple time's. Its only real hard switch ins are Tran or sap sipper water mons. Only true revenge killer is azumarill. Of those only heatran is really splashable. HDB, Quiver dance, roost + its typing really make a nasty combo.

As i said may just be me but I'm its getting looked at.
 
Hi, I would like to contribute my 2 cents, or not even that, with my opinion of Kyurem and how it weighs on the metagame. In fact I've been inactive recently but I hope my perspective of the last few days is somehow helpful, even if it's to disagree.
I will be commenting based on my experience of the past few days, both played and watched, in addition to relying on data/information from the October stats (1695);
| Choice Specs 34.980%
| Heavy-Duty Boots 20.201%
| Choice Scarf 14.255%
| Never-Melt Ice 10.217%
| Leftovers 9.185%
| Metronome 6.568%
| Other 4.594%

| Freeze-Dry 88.756%
| Earth Power 86.177%
| Ice Beam 64.070%
| Roost 41.938%
| Focus Blast 35.261%
| Substitute 29.794%
| Draco Meteor 17.053%
| Dragon Dance 12.465%
| Icicle Spear 12.149%
| Other 12.338%


:Kyurem: has respectable stats, its worst stats are 90 defenses. Huge HP of 125, both Attack of 130 and a decent Speed of 95, combined with ample movepool and useful ability, allows him to take not only defensive but offensive directions.
Its type is not the best defensively, mainly due to its weakness to Stealth Rock, which limits its switchs, but it has interesting resistances to Water and Electric (in addition to Grass), making Kyurem one of the best Substitute users.
Kyurem's flexibility places enormous weight on the metagame, in addition to the constraint that each set, common or niche, presents. Each answer for a set can be surpassed by another, making the risk of a wrong reading in certain cases irreversible.
Just to give you an example, Blissey, who while still at risk of suffering 2HKO for Specs Focus Blast, can be considered a “safe” answer, is setup bait for Dragon Dance set, while Melmetal, who responds to DD set, has no solid recovery and is gradually defeated by Choice Specs, although he hits predict and receives Ice-Type hits in switch.

Next, I would like to comment on the main sets;
Kyurem @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest /Timid Nature
- Freeze-Dry
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
- Earth Power / Draco Meteor

:Choice Specs:
The most common and with immediate destructive power, wide coverage and with minimal need for moveset variation. Kyurem can consistently abuse (cough 70% acc Focus Blast). Ice + Ground has near-perfect coverage except for rarely seen things like Rotom-H, Shedinja, and Levitate Bronzong. Draco Meteor is an absurd nuke while Focus Blast lets you check even the best answers, like Blissey (252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 332-392 (46.4 - 54.9%) -- 64.5 % chance to 2HKO) and Scizor (252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Scizor: 179-211 (52.1 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO).
Slowking-Galar is a solid and durable answer thanks to Regenerator, but surprise;
| Modest:248/0/12/204/44/0 14.865%
| Calm:252/0/12/124/120/0 12.798%
| Calm:252/0/0/176/80/0 5.094%
| Bold:252/0/252/4/0/0 5.076%
| Modest:252/0/0/252/4/0 4.064%
| Sassy:252/0/12/124/120/0 2.943%
| Other 55.159%

Max SpDef+ is not among the most common spreads.
| Sludge Bomb 89.702%
| Future Sight 84.564%
| Flamethrower 78.747%
| Ice Beam 46.107%
| Scald 26.545%
| Earthquake 25.148%

Only 26.5% use Scald, which would be highly recommended to thaw Slowking-Galar in an eventual and almost unavoidable Freeze.
Volcarona is a necessary mention for resisting Ice-moves and not taking super effective from Ground/Fight, but that would mean using the Roost set, sacrificing coverage, and, although problematic and restrictive, being totally neutralized by a potential Heatran partner.

Kyurem @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Freeze-Dry
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
- Earth Power / Draco Meteor

:Choice Scarf:
Here Kyurem stands out against offensive teams, surprising opponents who are tempted to stay and try a “free” U-turn damage, such as Tornadus-T, Dragapult, Tapu Koko and others. I won't deny that 14% was something that surprised me, which makes it equally interesting to share.

Kyurem @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Metronome / Never-Melt Ice
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 56 HP / 200 SpA / 252 Spe /other
Timid /other Nature
- Roost
- Freeze-Dry
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam / Substitute

:Heavy-Duty Boots::Metronome::Never-Melt Ice:
More flexible and customizable set, can be more offensive with 3 attacks and an item that increases its power, or more defensive abusing its Substitute that resists Seismic Toss and Scald easily, with HDB to maximize its switchs. “Pressing” (I tried to avoid this pun as much as I could) on both defensive and offensive teams.

Kyurem @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 76 Def / 52 SpD / 132 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Icicle Spear

:Leftovers:
The set I really want to comment on because I see how underrated it is with only 12% usage lol. The spread is my own customization so let me explain;
248 HP, Speed to pass any non-Scarf Heatran and Buzzwole variants, plus Dragapult and Zeraora after a single Dragon Dance. SpDef to withstand 2 Clefable Moonblast without SpA EVs, and Defense for Zeraora never breakers the Substitute with Knock Off.
This set takes advantage of Blissey and bulk Water that come in predicting the Specs set.
It's possible to drain all PP from things like Close Combat, Gyro Ball, Focus Blast, V-Create and Magma Storm, still allowing for a fifth Substitute thanks to Leftovers. Either the only move the defensive opponent has or an offensive opponent locked in Choice item, after being outspeeded by Dragon Dance.
Even Corviknight without setup is easy prey, as Body Press is far from 2HKO;
168+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 248 HP / 76 Def Kyurem: 156-184 (34.4 - 40.6%) -- 47.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery.
What I have to say is that this set alone invalidates several teams balanced or even offensive.
I play totally careless and impatient but still 6-0 just for Kyurem reasons. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1457382745-2p7a0x6o7nhkxzdqgvp8k0bz9e6r3k9pw

Other Options and Mentions
Weather Ball (Fire), niche in Sun teams, with choice Specs disintegrates Ferrothorn, Corviknight and even Bronzong, as well as Shedinja.
Rock Slide, bye Volcarona and Shedinja.

Landorus-Therian 45.548%
Corviknight 35.196%
Heatran 20.353%
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike 19.020%
Tapu Fini 17.039%


Teammates; Now I want to briefly comment on how Kyurem synergizes and is supported by the most common Pokémon in the metagame.
:Landorus-Therian:
The most used Pokémon would obviously be the most used partner, Fight resistance, Defog and Rocks support in addition to U-Turn.
:Corviknight:
Support Defog, Dragon, Fairy and Steel Resistances, Pressure core, drains limited PP from Melmetal's Double Iron Bash.
:heatran:
Double resistance to Fairy and Steel, can remove Slowking-Galar without Earthquake, plus bulk Waters and Volcarona.
:Urshifu-Rapid-Strike:
Here Kyurem is a good partner for Urshifu, taking advantage of the opportunities that U-Turn provides.
:Tapu Fini:
The best partner Kyurem could have; Removes AV from Slowking-Galar with Trick or Knock Off, Defog, limits Toxapex, Ferrothorn and Slowbro/king with Trick https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1458511962-znofq7g28y69eic5zt77hn8erxawb37pw, but mostly, Misty Terrain. Allowing Kyurem to not mind Scald Burn https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1457446712-9nnexxl1rwjv5huyqnf7rg1vvgq26gqpw and even cutting damage taken from Dragon-moves in half, so Kyurem can stay ahead of, for example, Dragapult even after having spent HP on Substitutes. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1456848190-xxbnj2i1fyiyim0ty40gruw18072ypspw
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 52 SpD Kyurem in Misty Terrain: 272-324 (60 - 71.5%)
:Magnezone:
Removing Melmetal and Bulk Up/Iron Defense Corviknight is awesome for the Dragon Dance set.

:Clefable::Latias::Blissey:Healing Wish
You can save the game in case like me you end up playing recklessly just wanting to abuse Kyurem.

In conclusion, in my opinion (TL;DR); Kyurem is spammable, flexible, forcing limited counters with limited sets. I support Kyurem being discussed/suspected. And I'm ok if Finchinator announces Quick Ban tonight, making all this writing a waste of time.
 
Can anyone explain to me why people think magnet pull should be banned and not magnezone itself? Imo magnet pull seems like a balanced ability, only being able to trap steels, many of which can hit opposing steel types super effectively (tran, and melm) or can pivot out of it (scizor).
 
Can anyone explain to me why people think magnet pull should be banned and not magnezone itself? Imo magnet pull seems like a balanced ability, only being able to trap steels, many of which can hit opposing steel types super effectively (tran, and melm) or can pivot out of it (scizor).
It's a combination of some people arguing that trapping abilities in general should be banned (usually as a response to the common arguments made during Arena Trap's suspect, and sometimes even extends to trapping moves; honestly most of these arguments seem in bad faith to me, but they exist) and then also because we saw during the Dugtrio suspect in Gen 7 that Diglett and Trapinch were still problems, and Magneton is way closer to Magnezone than Diglett is to Dugtrio.
 
Can anyone explain to me why people think magnet pull should be banned and not magnezone itself? Imo magnet pull seems like a balanced ability, only being able to trap steels, many of which can hit opposing steel types super effectively (tran, and melm) or can pivot out of it (scizor).
The main argument brought by pro-ban people is that trapping abilities are uncompetitive by nature. "Trapping abilities prevent a basic, fundamental action of play with little to no possible means to avoid that" that's roughly the main argument.
From this observation also comes the need to decide a general line of action when it comes to all trapping abilities, or not: since magnet pull is the only one still allowed, it technically creates inconsistencies with the main argument of "trapping abilities are uncompetitive", so voices have been heard for this reason as well.

Obviously, this type of thought process - whether you agree with it or not at any point - doesn't really warrant any special attention to be given to magnezone, which is why the discussion is never about the Pokémon and always about the ability.

I tried to keep it short and impartial, hope you got the idea :)
 
It's a combination of some people arguing that trapping abilities in general should be banned (usually as a response to the common arguments made during Arena Trap's suspect, and sometimes even extends to trapping moves; honestly most of these arguments seem in bad faith to me, but they exist) and then also because we saw during the Dugtrio suspect in Gen 7 that Diglett and Trapinch were still problems, and Magneton is way closer to Magnezone than Diglett is to Dugtrio.
I've heard about diglett and trapinch coming in to take dugtruo's place, and I understand zone is far closer to ton than diglett is to Dugtrio, its just that I don't see magnemite being able to do what either of them do in gen 8 ou.

The main argument brought by pro-ban people is that trapping abilities are uncompetitive by nature. "Trapping abilities prevent a basic, fundamental action of play with little to no possible means to avoid that" that's roughly the main argument.
From this observation also comes the need to decide a general line of action when it comes to all trapping abilities, or not: since magnet pull is the only one still allowed, it technically creates inconsistencies with the main argument of "trapping abilities are uncompetitive", so voices have been heard for this reason as well.

Obviously, this type of thought process - whether you agree with it or not at any point - doesn't really warrant any special attention to be given to magnezone, which is why the discussion is never about the Pokémon and always about the ability.

I tried to keep it short and impartial, hope you got the idea :)
Thanks for responding and clearing things up. I want to clarify why I would think zone would be more worthy of a suspect test than magnet pull is at least imo for an ability to be broken, any pokemon that gets that ability becomes broken i.e. bidoof in gen 5 ubers(moody), cacnea in gen 3 ou(sand veil), and trapinch and diglett every ou since gen 4(arena trap) iirc. Tbh I don't see magnemite pulling off what zone and tone can do.
 
I will admit I am surprised to see Kyruem being tested I have never had much of an issue with it. Though I will fully admit that is likely due to me using Blissey and/or Clefable on most of my teams, If you run that core it shuts down Kyruem pretty hard.
 
Hi to anyone reading this, I hope you are having a good day c:

I recently got low reqs for the Kyu suspect, so I've been messing around with some other stuff trying to get a better record. In the middle of that I decided to try out ttar ho, but wasn't sure of what to use as last. Enter BRIGHTPOWDER + SAND VEIL GARCHOMP. I've talked about brightpowder being dumb, and I know sand veil was even in the last survey, but I really wanted to make the post cause I can't understand how this awful and unhealthy strat is still allowed. As stated, I just started playing from a fresh acc and thus only have 6 games with my team. Out of those 6, 4 got the spotlight:
Keep in mind that these weren't long games, so Garchomp didn't get too much chances to dodge nor to get hit. In the first two games, it dodged 1/3; in the third one it dodged 1/4; in the last one it dodged 3/3. I'll now talk about some points of contention:

a) This happens everywhere and not just in low ladder: Ofc the teams not being the best helped garchomp sweep in most of the games. However, how much would it have changed if it had been on high ladder? The Hitmontop missed mach punch, so what if Weavile had missed an ice shard? Idt this makes a real difference, as accuaracy is the same across all parts of the ladder. I would like to share a replay I got while doing my reqs run:

Garchomp dodges 2 Hexes + Double Iron Bash, both outside of sand: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1462701688

Ofc I am OUTH 4Aqours. Is this game the best example? Ofc not, but it goes to show that you are never out of the woods against this, as I was up 4-2 and ready to click the last moves, but only won cause Garchomp missed it's own attack at the end.

b) Is not unreliable: I mean, it probably is unreliable, but is it? As I said, I've only played 6 games with the team and 4 of those replays are featured here. I didn't even include the one where a Rotom-H missed a toxic, cause that moves can miss with or without dodging abilities/items. If you have some replays to share, please do so.

c) Is unhealthy: Idk if it's just me, but as you saw in the replays, I sacked ttar just so garchomp could have 1-3 turns on sand. I didn't even think about using the team like that, but as the game started, I thought that was my best shot everytime. Also, how is this any different that back when players were trying to win games outright by getting 3-4 flinches in a row?

-----------------

All in all, this item and this ability are just dumb. No one is using them over Rough Skin for any reason other than trying to cheese their opponent. I'll keep on playing with this team for a little bit and may post replays if I think is worth it. I look forward to reading everyone's opinions.

Edit:

After playing some more, it worked around a 50-50, still these replays shouldn't be a thing. There are the ones I feel comfy sharing but ofc there's more. I felt like adding a ss of the last one cause it was against a reqs acc that finished with a really good run, but I don't feel comfy sharing the link.

Garchomp dodges an unburden +2 Sceptile leaf blade to reverse sweep: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1464618845

Garchomp dodges a Fini Moonblast: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1465082510-mf323mhfxznl202gyzlwwspl4ub46adpw

Garchomp dodges a Dragapult Shadow ball: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1464754149

Garchomp dodges a Lele Moonblast: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1465062537-ii3207hicsnphq9q0llhn1xo22tr7e4pw

Garchomp dodges a Pult u-turn and a LandoT eq (but only gets 2 scale shot hits twice :c): https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1465071382-a1fg4x13tmv8ws2q714kmtcq1evadwlpw

Garchomp dodges a u-turn from TornT, and a Dazzling Gleam from Koko:

chompdazzlinggleam.png
 
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Hi to anyone reading this, I hope you are having a good day c:

I recently got low reqs for the Kyu suspect, so I've been messing around with some other stuff trying to get a better record. In the middle of that I decided to try out ttar ho, but wasn't sure of what to use as last. Enter BRIGHTPOWDER + SAND VEIL GARCHOMP. I've talked about brightpowder being dumb, and I know sand veil was even in the last survey, but I really wanted to make the post cause I can't understand how this awful and unhealthy strat is still allowed. As stated, I just started playing from a fresh acc and thus only have 6 games with my team. Out of those 6, 4 got the spotlight:
Keep in mind that these weren't long games, so Garchomp didn't get too much chances to dodge nor to get hit. In the first two games, it dodged 1/3; in the third one it dodged 1/4; in the last one it dodged 3/3. I'll now talk about some points of contention:

a) This happens everywhere and not just in low ladder: Ofc the teams not being the best helped garchomp sweep in most of the games. However, how much would it have changed if it had been on high ladder? The Hitmontop missed mach punch, so what if Weavile had missed an ice shard? Idt this makes a real difference, as accuaracy is the same across all parts of the ladder. I would like to share a replay I got while doing my reqs run:

Garchomp dodges 2 Hexes + Double Iron Bash, both outside of sand: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1462701688

Ofc I am OUTH 4Aqours. Is this game the best example? Ofc not, but it goes to show that you are never out of the woods against this, as I was up 4-2 and ready to click the last moves, but only won cause Garchomp missed it's own attack at the end.

b) Is not unreliable: I mean, it probably is unreliable, but is it? As I said, I've only played 6 games with the team and 4 of those replays are featured here. I didn't even include the one where a Rotom-H missed a toxic, cause that moves can miss with or without dodging abilities/items. If you have some replays to share, please do so.

c) Is unhealthy: Idk if it's just me, but as you saw in the replays, I sacked ttar just so garchomp could have 1-3 turns on sand. I didn't even think about using the team like that, but as the game started, I thought that was my best shot everytime. Also, how is this any different that back when players were trying to win games outright by getting 3-4 flinches in a row?

-----------------

All in all, this item and this ability are just dumb. No one is using them over Rough Skin for any reason other than trying to cheese their opponent. I'll keep on playing with this team for a little bit and may post replays if I think is worth it. I look forward to reading everyone's opinions.
I disagree with point B. Though I agree with the ultimate conclusion from this point. The strategy banks on relatively slim chances of favorable randomized outcomes in pivotal turns. This imo is the definition of unreliable. But to me that's even more reason to ban it. What is different between this and inherently less accurate moves is the intentional tradeoff the player makes in that instance. There is no real counterplay to this other than ridiculous sets like Wide Lens Mamoswine so the strategy is just hoping for a good matchup or good luck. It sometimes doesn't even need both.

Snow Cloak has no place either though that strategy is ameliorated a bit by being horrible.

TLDR: Yes it should be banned.
 

Red Raven

I COULD BE BANNED!
Hi to anyone reading this, I hope you are having a good day c:

I recently got low reqs for the Kyu suspect, so I've been messing around with some other stuff trying to get a better record. In the middle of that I decided to try out ttar ho, but wasn't sure of what to use as last. Enter BRIGHTPOWDER + SAND VEIL GARCHOMP. I've talked about brightpowder being dumb, and I know sand veil was even in the last survey, but I really wanted to make the post cause I can't understand how this awful and unhealthy strat is still allowed. As stated, I just started playing from a fresh acc and thus only have 6 games with my team. Out of those 6, 4 got the spotlight:
Keep in mind that these weren't long games, so Garchomp didn't get too much chances to dodge nor to get hit. In the first two games, it dodged 1/3; in the third one it dodged 1/4; in the last one it dodged 3/3. I'll now talk about some points of contention:

a) This happens everywhere and not just in low ladder: Ofc the teams not being the best helped garchomp sweep in most of the games. However, how much would it have changed if it had been on high ladder? The Hitmontop missed mach punch, so what if Weavile had missed an ice shard? Idt this makes a real difference, as accuaracy is the same across all parts of the ladder. I would like to share a replay I got while doing my reqs run:

Garchomp dodges 2 Hexes + Double Iron Bash, both outside of sand: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1462701688

Ofc I am OUTH 4Aqours. Is this game the best example? Ofc not, but it goes to show that you are never out of the woods against this, as I was up 4-2 and ready to click the last moves, but only won cause Garchomp missed it's own attack at the end.

b) Is not unreliable: I mean, it probably is unreliable, but is it? As I said, I've only played 6 games with the team and 4 of those replays are featured here. I didn't even include the one where a Rotom-H missed a toxic, cause that moves can miss with or without dodging abilities/items. If you have some replays to share, please do so.

c) Is unhealthy: Idk if it's just me, but as you saw in the replays, I sacked ttar just so garchomp could have 1-3 turns on sand. I didn't even think about using the team like that, but as the game started, I thought that was my best shot everytime. Also, how is this any different that back when players were trying to win games outright by getting 3-4 flinches in a row?

-----------------

All in all, this item and this ability are just dumb. No one is using them over Rough Skin for any reason other than trying to cheese their opponent. I'll keep on playing with this team for a little bit and may post replays if I think is worth it. I look forward to reading everyone's opinions.
Have to agree with this. Personally, I find sand veil even more broken than Kyurem. At least with Kyurem you have some options readily available no matter how limited. Against sand veil, your only option is either reset the weather or wait it ou, both of which are not that readily available. Sand veil and brightpowder were mentioned a bunch of times in the surveys but dunno why nothing is being done about it
 
Yh, it seems the only reason these things are not banned are because they are not consistently good/used enough; and every gen if they get good/used enough they get banned, so there is not point in not banning them if they are only not banned because they are not used,and will probably get banned immediately if they do get used to any meaningful degree. I do agree with bans on those since they are about turning games into luck based rngfests, and trying to circumvent player skill
 
If I remember correctly, Sand Veil was one of the reasons that pushed Garchomp over the top and got it banned in DPP OU, right? This indicates back in that time, Sand Veil had a meaningful impact on Garchomp's perfomance. I'm totally on board for getting rid of the evasion-raising abilities.
 
If I remember correctly, Sand Veil was one of the reasons that pushed Garchomp over the top and got it banned in DPP OU, right? This indicates back in that time, Sand Veil had a meaningful impact on Garchomp's perfomance. I'm totally on board for getting rid of the evasion-raising abilities.
With perma-sand. Let's keep that in mind. Also DDP Chomp OHKOed the whole metagame bar 3-4 mons with just its STABs. It was thoroughly broke without Sand Veil.

As for Sand Veil in Gen 8:
1. Yes it's kinda dumb and probably deserves looking at once certain broken stuff is sent to Ubers or at least tested.
2. Leftovers>Bright Powder in every case. Especially with Sand Veil since Lefties gives you an extra chance to fish for a miss, and is more useful outside Sand.
3. Keep in mind it pretty much mandates weather being up. Is Sand Garchomp significantly more silly than Sun Venusaur or Hail Arctozolt? No. Not even close. Especially with Sand being in a decline in general ever since DLC 2, and debatably being the worst weather in the tier to try and build around.

I understand the argument isn't about if Sand Veil is broken, but you have to stop and ask "is it even worth trying to abuse right now?" And the answer is "not really, Smooth Rock Ttar/Hippo sucks". And as for no Smooth Rock, saying one turn of Sand Veil or having to go hard Chomp into things Chomp should not be switching into ever is worth throwing a teamslot for is laughable. The only reason you'd do it is to fish for replays of you dodging things. The set needs Sub to work because without it you are literally playing standard Chomp 5/6 times, you're throwing a teamslot away on a 1/6 chance. Like this deserves to be banned, but some of the above feels disingenuous.
 

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