Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion Thread v7 (Usage Stats in post #3539)

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December usage stats are here! Credit to Kalalokki for the visual below:
Code:
Combined usage for OU (1695 stats)
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Percent |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| 1    | Landorus-Therian   | 28.378% |
| 2    | Clefable           | 24.506% |
| 3    | Pheromosa          | 22.638% |
| 4    | Urshifu            | 21.875% |
| 5    | Ferrothorn         | 21.861% |
| 6    | Magearna           | 21.578% |
| 7    | Toxapex            | 18.910% |
| 8    | Zapdos             | 18.766% |
| 9    | Heatran            | 18.041% |
| 10   | Spectrier          | 15.922% |
| 11   | Tapu Fini          | 15.881% |
| 12   | Cinderace          | 15.558% |
| 13   | Melmetal           | 13.674% |
| 14   | Rillaboom          | 13.636% |
| 15   | Garchomp           | 12.767% |
| 16   | Swampert           | 11.989% |
| 17   | Moltres            | 11.367% |
| 18   | Mandibuzz          | 10.878% |
| 19   | Pelipper           |  9.871% |
| 20   | Nidoking           |  9.390% |
| 21   | Slowbro            |  9.133% |
| 22   | Excadrill          |  9.008% |
| 23   | Tyranitar          |  8.839% |
| 24   | Blissey            |  8.699% |
| 25   | Tapu Koko          |  7.956% |
| 26   | Buzzwole           |  7.892% |
| 27   | Tornadus-Therian   |  7.252% |
| 28   | Latios             |  7.173% |
| 29   | Urshifu-Rapid-Strike |  6.702% |
| 30   | Dragapult          |  6.657% |
| 31   | Barraskewda        |  6.382% |
| 32   | Corviknight        |  6.307% |
| 33   | Kartana            |  6.230% |
| 34   | Hydreigon          |  5.482% |
| 35   | Tapu Lele          |  5.239% |
| 36   | Hippowdon          |  5.102% |
| 37   | Regieleki          |  5.097% |
| 38   | Slowking-Galar     |  4.644% |
| 39   | Zygarde            |  4.627% |
| 40   | Dragonite          |  4.615% |
| 41   | Blaziken           |  4.419% |
| 42   | Zapdos-Galar       |  4.294% |
| 43   | Kyurem-Black       |  3.579% |
| 44   | Crawdaunt          |  2.940% |
| 45   | Aegislash          |  2.844% |
| 46   | Victini            |  2.831% |
| 47   | Slowking           |  2.812% |
| 48   | Seismitoad         |  2.801% |
| 49   | Hawlucha           |  2.696% |
| 50   | Thundurus-Therian  |  2.664% |
| 51   | Dracozolt          |  2.412% |
| 52   | Chansey            |  2.257% |
| 53   | Mamoswine          |  2.222% |
| 54   | Volcarona          |  2.123% |
| 55   | Suicune            |  2.064% |
| 56   | Ditto              |  2.015% |
| 57   | Scizor             |  2.010% |
| 58   | Zarude             |  1.952% |
| 59   | Skarmory           |  1.914% |
| 60   | Grimmsnarl         |  1.804% |
| 61   | Magnezone          |  1.788% |
| 62   | Blacephalon        |  1.767% |
| 63   | Torkoal            |  1.740% |
| 64   | Bisharp            |  1.719% |
| 65   | Kingdra            |  1.707% |
| 66   | Celesteela         |  1.690% |
| 67   | Venusaur           |  1.665% |
| 68   | Kyurem             |  1.621% |
| 69   | Ninetales-Alola    |  1.509% |
| 70   | Quagsire           |  1.494% |
| 71   | Klefki             |  1.493% |
| 72   | Shuckle            |  1.439% |
| 73   | Volcanion          |  1.439% |
| 74   | Kommo-o            |  1.437% |
| 75   | Mew                |  1.436% |
| 76   | Porygon2           |  1.420% |
| 77   | Azumarill          |  1.392% |
| 78   | Gastrodon          |  1.330% |
| 79   | Latias             |  1.293% |
| 80   | Marowak-Alola      |  1.290% |
| 81   | Hatterene          |  1.266% |
| 82   | Moltres-Galar      |  1.246% |
| 83   | Zeraora            |  1.211% |
| 84   | Tangrowth          |  1.194% |
| 85   | Tapu Bulu          |  1.155% |
| 86   | Amoonguss          |  1.135% |
| 87   | Rotom-Wash         |  1.105% |
| 88   | Regidrago          |  1.098% |
| 89   | Shedinja           |  1.078% |
| 90   | Weavile            |  1.062% |
| 91   | Jirachi            |  0.963% |
| 92   | Cresselia          |  0.959% |
| 93   | Arctozolt          |  0.915% |
| 94   | Keldeo             |  0.884% |
| 95   | Ribombee           |  0.880% |
| 96   | Krookodile         |  0.875% |
| 97   | Nihilego           |  0.857% |
| 98   | Togekiss           |  0.842% |
| 99   | Weezing-Galar      |  0.774% |
| 100  | Nidoqueen          |  0.761% |
| 101  | Rotom-Heat         |  0.759% |
| 102  | Glastrier          |  0.713% |
| 103  | Reuniclus          |  0.695% |
| 104  | Salamence          |  0.685% |
| 105  | Gengar             |  0.682% |
| 106  | Rhyperior          |  0.644% |
| 107  | Obstagoon          |  0.635% |
| 108  | Diggersby          |  0.627% |
| 109  | Cloyster           |  0.611% |
| 110  | Primarina          |  0.560% |
| 111  | Druddigon          |  0.551% |
| 112  | Stakataka          |  0.467% |
| 113  | Alakazam           |  0.444% |
| 114  | Incineroar         |  0.403% |
| 115  | Poliwrath          |  0.399% |
| 116  | Aurorus            |  0.389% |
| 117  | Sandslash-Alola    |  0.347% |
| 118  | Arctovish          |  0.342% |
| 119  | Conkeldurr         |  0.330% |
| 120  | Toxtricity         |  0.320% |
| 121  | Mimikyu            |  0.318% |
| 122  | Lycanroc-Dusk      |  0.304% |
| 123  | Omastar            |  0.298% |
| 124  | Darmanitan         |  0.294% |
| 125  | Azelf              |  0.265% |
| 126  | Xurkitree          |  0.261% |
| 127  | Entei              |  0.261% |
| 128  | Articuno-Galar     |  0.259% |
| 129  | Vaporeon           |  0.251% |
| 130  | Gyarados           |  0.249% |
| 131  | Araquanid          |  0.243% |
| 132  | Uxie               |  0.236% |
| 133  | Zygarde-10%        |  0.229% |
| 134  | Archeops           |  0.225% |
| 135  | Dragalge           |  0.219% |
| 136  | Umbreon            |  0.215% |
| 137  | Porygon-Z          |  0.202% |
| 138  | Mantine            |  0.199% |
| 139  | Centiskorch        |  0.194% |
| 140  | Charizard          |  0.192% |
| 141  | Starmie            |  0.187% |
| 142  | Sandaconda         |  0.184% |
| 143  | Haxorus            |  0.183% |
| 144  | Metagross          |  0.178% |
| 145  | Aerodactyl         |  0.176% |
| 146  | Jellicent          |  0.171% |
| 147  | Comfey             |  0.169% |
| 148  | Slowbro-Galar      |  0.166% |
| 149  | Snorlax            |  0.164% |
| 150  | Guzzlord           |  0.163% |
| 151  | Registeel          |  0.157% |
| 152  | Articuno           |  0.156% |
| 153  | Pikachu            |  0.155% |
| 154  | Ninetales          |  0.151% |
| 155  | Salazzle           |  0.147% |
| 156  | Blastoise          |  0.146% |
| 157  | Diancie            |  0.144% |
| 158  | Heliolisk          |  0.141% |
| 159  | Whimsicott         |  0.136% |
| 160  | Audino             |  0.134% |
| 161  | Necrozma           |  0.133% |
| 162  | Zoroark            |  0.132% |
| 163  | Vanilluxe          |  0.130% |
| 164  | Eldegoss           |  0.129% |
| 165  | Raikou             |  0.128% |
| 166  | Flygon             |  0.127% |
| 167  | Scolipede          |  0.125% |
| 168  | Accelgor           |  0.124% |
| 169  | Milotic            |  0.123% |
| 170  | Indeedee           |  0.122% |
| 171  | Kabutops           |  0.121% |
| 172  | Slurpuff           |  0.120% |
| 173  | Thundurus          |  0.120% |
| 174  | Abomasnow          |  0.119% |
| 175  | Terrakion          |  0.114% |
| 176  | Altaria            |  0.111% |
| 177  | Tyrantrum          |  0.109% |
| 178  | Golisopod          |  0.108% |
| 179  | Gardevoir          |  0.106% |
| 180  | Regigigas          |  0.105% |
| 181  | Politoed           |  0.104% |
| 182  | Xatu               |  0.104% |
| 183  | Sceptile           |  0.101% |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
Changes to the Top 10:

#11 (17.189%) > #3 (22.63%)
Over the last month, Pheromosa has only grown more popular, in part to players picking up on the new Quiver Dance set. Choice Band Pheromosa was already a huge threat, especially when paired with Future Sight, but the Quiver Dance set of Quiver Dance + Focus Blast + Ice Beam + Shock Wave has proven to be a terrifying sweeper in the current metagame. Shock Wave allows Pheromosa to deal solid damage against Water-types like Toxapex, Slowbro and Tapu Fini, as well as Flying-types like Moltres, who would otherwise handle Pheromosa's Choice Band set. Beast Boost plays a decent role in both sets, as it makes Pheromosa much more difficult to revenge kill as it will most likely receive a Speed boost. It also resists the most common priority moves in Sucker Punch and Grassy Glide (Adamant Rillaboom's roll is 90-106%), which means that it's not always possible to revenge kill it with priority if Pheromosa is near full health.

#12 (16.571%) > #5 (21.86%)
Ferrothorn is doing what it usually does, with checking or blanket checking a ton of mons in the tier while being the best Spike user in the tier. Ferrothorn with Power Whip is a reliable counter for Calm Mind Tapu Fini, and it's also a decent answer to Magearna and Melmetal. Knock Off allows it to remove Heavy-Duty Boots from common Defoggers like Zapdos, Moltres and Mandibuzz, which is honestly pretty big considering how reliant those mons are on boots in order to consistently check offensive threats like Rillaboom. Spikes in general are better in the current metagame due to there being more mons prone to them, such as Magearna, Melmetal, and Heatran.

Other notable increases in usage:

#21 (9.415%) > #14 (13.636%)
Rillaboom is starting to pick up usage again, and it's still using the same Choice Band set as before. Knock Off + Grassy Glide is pretty solid, with Knock Off being useful at removing Heavy-Duty Boots from Mandibuzz, and Grassy Glide being helpful at revenge killing faster threats like Spectrier and Pheromosa after rocks. Grassy Glide in particular looks very reliable at this point in time, as there are several offensive mons in the tier with Speed boosting options. This includes Pheromosa with Quiver Dance or a Speed boost from Beast Boost, Scale Shot Garchomp, and weather mons like Baraskewda and Excadrill.

#24 (8.464%) > #15 (12.767%)
With Zygarde out of the picture, Garchomp has returned to being one of the best mons in the tier. Offensive Swords Dance and Mixed sets are what have brought it back to life, with the former using Swords Dance + Earthquake + Stone Edge/Fire Blast + Scale Shot, and the latter using Stealth Rock + Earthquake + Fire Blast + Draco Meteor. Both sets excel at breaking, and Garchomp's speed tier is actually really good as there aren't too many mons that can outspeed and immediately KO it outside of Pheromosa and Dragapult. Stone Edge is useful to immediately KO Mandibuzz and remove Moltres and Zapdos without fear of being status'd. Scale Shot is a really nice option that allows Garchomp to become difficult to revenge kill thanks to obtaining a Speed boost. Fire Blast is a reliable option to take out Ferrothorn and Melmetal more quickly, while also being able to lure and deal significant damage to Buzzwole. Draco Meteor is great at dealing good damage to physically defensive pivots like Lando-T that try to switch into Garchomp.

#30 (7.403%) > #17 (11.367%)
Moltres is an solid defensive pivot that's especially common for Sand teams. It's able to check physical attackers like Melmetal and Pheromosa, and threaten them as well as U-turn users like Cinderace with Flame Body. It still uses the same set of Roost + Defog + Scorching Sands + Mystical Fire/Flamethrower, and it most likely rose in order to try and combat the increased usage from Pheromosa's Choice Band set and Cinderace in general.

#40 (4.615%) >#20 (9.390%)
Nidoking has taken the metagame by storm and has turned into a solid pick for OU. With Sludge Wave + Earth Power + Flamethrower, it's able to threaten pretty much everything but Blissey. The final slot isn't set in stone, but the most common moves are Ice Beam, Taunt, and Substitute. Ice Beam deals additional damage to Mandibuzz and can 1HKO Landorus-T and Garchomp. Substitute can potentially force the opponent into having to sack an offensive mon in order to break the substitute before sending out a second mon to deal with Nidoking. Finally, Taunt is useful at preventing Blissey and other defensive mons from healing or using utility moves like Teleport. Nidoking is able to threaten and KO everything in the tier and it looks to remain a strong presence in the tier.

Notable decreases in usage:

#16 (11.234%) > #26 (7.892%)
With Kyurem-Black and Zygarde being banned from OU, Buzzwole is starting to lose its niche in OU, as it was one of the best answers to both of those mons. It still has some decent utility, as it's the best counter to Urshifu-S, and can potentially handle rising threats like Rillaboom and SD Garchomp lacking Fire Blast.

#20 (10.284%) > #37 (5.097%)
Regieleki managed to hold on and avoid the cutoff from falling out of OU. More and more teams are getting used to it, with Lando, Garchomp, Hippowdon seeing more usage this month. There's also a lot of priority users in the current metagame, most notably with Sucker Punch from Urshifu-S and Cinderace, as well as Rillaboom, who saw a decent increase in usage this month.

Rising to OU:

#57 (2.155%) > #34 (5.482%)
Hydreigon is back, but this time with a defensive Defog set. Hydreigon is running something similar to what it ran in SM OU, with a set of Defog, Roost and 2 attacks. Hydreigon is able to provide a defensive answer to Heatran and Spectrier (while providing hazard removal, and is fast enough to threaten a lot of offensive mons in the tier like Nidoking. Being a Spectrier answer is honestly worth emphasizing again, as not too many exist at this point in time, and Hydreigon being able to do additional things (Defog and checking Heatran) while handling Spectrier makes it a nice option to use in OU.

#41 (4.317%) > #35 (5.239%)
Tapu Lele started off slow, but it has finally returned to OU. The reason for returning is that Tapu Lele isn't fully checked by teams that try and get away by running an offensive Melmetal or Magearna as their only Steel-type. Both of them, Melmetal in particular, can take at least 30% or more from Choice Specs Tapu Lele's Psychic, and this can cause teams to get overwhelmed by Lele fairly quickly. Tapu Lele has 3 main sets, which are Choice Specs, Choice Scarf, and then a set with Heavy-Duty Boots. The first 2 sets are identical, with each one using Psychic + Moonblast + Focus Blast + Psyshock/Thunderbolt, and the last one is a bit different and utilizes Nature's Madness, Taunt, or Calm Mind in the final slot. Moon Blast allows Tapu Lele to hit Dark-types like Urshifu and Mandibuzz, while Focus Blast hits Steel-types and Thunderbolt hits Corviknight and can potentially 1HKO Slowbro. Nature's Madness allows Lele to immediately hit the likely Steel-type switch in for 50%, which most likely leaves it in range of being KO'd by 2 Psychics from Tapu Lele. Heavy-Duty Boots are nice to keep Tapu Lele healthy and to increase the number of times it can switch in while hazards are up.

#42 (3.373%) > #36 (5.102%)
Hippowdon most likely rose in order to act as a defensive wall that could provide an Electric-type immunity, Stealth Rock, and act as a solid switchin to Cinderace, who has been growing in usage as well. The set of Stealth Rock + Earthquake + Toxic + Slack Off can be annoying to some teams, as the only mons safe from this set are Clefable, Ferrothorn, Tapu Fini, Kartana and Corviknight. It helps that Corviknight, Hippo's best answer, is still a bit low in usage.

#80 (1.361%) > #38 (4.644%)
This one is probably the biggest surprise, but Slowking-Galar is actually kinda good in OU. It has solid coverage and power that can quickly annoy and threaten balance teams, while simultaneously providing solid defensive utility. It runs an Assault Vest set with Sludge Bomb + Flamethrower Scald/Hydro Pump + Future Sight/Psychic. This coverage allows it to threaten pretty much everything outside of Blissey, as Clefable and Toxapex are take care of with Sludge Bomb and Psychic respectively, while Steel-types like Ferrothorn hate Flamethrower. Scald and Hydro Pump threaten Ground-types like Landorus, and there's also the fact that Sludge Bomb and Scald's 30% status rates make them tough to switch into safely. Regenerator with Assault Vest allows Slowking to act as a defensive answer to Quiver Dance Pheromosa, Latios, and Calm Mind Tapu Fini. Overall I'd say this is a a pretty cool addition to the tier and it'll be interesting to see how it does in the future.

Fall from OU:

#38 (5.149%) > #41 (4.419%)
#32 (7.132%) >#42 (4.294%)

These 2 were close to dropping out last month and it seems this month they finally did. Both were hyped at first, but their actual performance in OU wasn't up to par, and this eventually caused them to fall from OU. Both of these physical attackers struggle in the current metagame, in which most of the physically defensive walls (Slowbro, Moltres, Zapdos, Lando-T), give them too much trouble for them to be used over other physical attackers like Pheromosa, Urshifu-S, and Cinderace.

Same questions as usual:

1. What surprised you the most from these stats?
2. Among the mons with increased usage, which ones do you believe will continue to see an increase in usage?
3. Among the mons with decreased usage, which ones do you believe will continue to see a decrease in usage?
4. What mons do you think are underrated and may see higher usage in the future?
5. What mons do you think are overrated and may see less usage in the future?
6. How do you feel about the most common offensive mons in the tier, and how do they impact the tier?
7. How do you feel about the most common defensive mons in the tier, and what are some common defensive cores you see?
8. How do you feel about team building? Does it feel like there are too many things to cover, or are there certain mons that restrict building?
9. What are your favorite mons to use in OU right now?
10. I hope you all have a wonderful rest of the day :)
 
Well here we go
1. Spectrier looks like it is dropping off now. Makaes sense though since every team has like 3 checks and counter each.
2. Nidoking most likely. I don't think I have to explain how good sheer force /w life orb is. I personally also use a scarf set, which is very good, and allows it to beat the things that would normally outspeed and OHKO it.
3. Spectrier is going to continue to drop. It was obvious since the start, that too many counters meant decrease in usage. Maybe there might be some other weird tech set that pops up, but I doubt it.
4. Specs Kuyrem most underrated mon change my mind.
5. Tapu Koko. It's an alright pokemon, but it struggles against a lot. Especially since we were all clickbaited that it was getting play rough. Think it's gonna drop.
6. Spectrier is over centralizing along with urshifu. Most of the other offensive pokemon don't have that big of an effect as these two do. Phermosa sucks ban when. Im excited to see new hydriegon tech to adapt to the meta. I've already seen some pretty cool sets running belch and stuff.
7. Personally none of the defensive pokemon are that hard to beat. They are annoying, but it's nothing that bad. Toxapex sucks, but it's not banworthy or anything. Just slap on a latios and your problems are solved.
8. Teambuilding isn't that bad. But it just doesn't give enough freedom right now. Its mandatory to have 1 thing to beat spectrier, pheromosa and urshifu. You also need to make sure you aren't walled by blissey or toxapex. In general you lose 2-3 slots at minimum trying to counter these things. It was much more free back during DLC1 and pre-DLC1. Overall its a lot more strict. Especially since spectrier and phermosa can run multiple sets.
9. I love using Alolan Ninetails. Having hail is great for changing weather against rain teams, and freeze dry is such a great move to spam. Veil is also pretty goated. Victini is also fun to play with because of it's spalshability.
10. You 2 :)
 
Okay, so I noticed Ferrothorn's growth, and thought that was pretty cool, as Ferrothorn is a tank. But imo, he's being misused as a setter. My personal set for him is
Ferrothorn @ Occa Berry
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 248 HP / 130 Def / 130 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Curse
- Gyro Ball

If you can take out the fire type on the opponents team, you can totally sweep, as ferrothorn can take basically anything else with ease. I've never been a fan of hazards, as all it takes is a good rapid spin, court change, taunt, or block/encore, and the entire thing falls apart. Especially in an OU where everyone chooses the fastest character, a tank like ferrothorn can rip right through. (It also goes well with trick room, if that's your cup of tea)
 
1. Eleki remaining in OU. Unlike something like spectrier, it is just kinda incapable of wearing down things immune to it. Feels like a non-threat honestly.

2. I think Tapu Lele will keep rising. It’s still just super strong and hard to check.

3. Eleki for the reasons mentioned above.

4. Kartana is very underrated according to usage, but people are catching onto how strong SD sets still are.

5. Not sure, maybe swampert? It’s definitely good, but I wonder if it’ll really stay this high. I think partially it’s just fun to use it right now, which is a good thing of course.

6. I’m honestly fine with pheromosa/urshifu and I think they make the tier much more fun by existing in it. I’m sure that’s an unpopular opinion lol, but I like having things that feel slightly too strong.

7. Kinda feels like the tier would fall apart without toxapex’s defensive utility. I don’t think that’s really a bad thing though personally. I just can’t imagine teambuilding without it as an option right now, sounds very difficult lol.

8. Teambuilding is absolute hell right now and that’s my biggest gripe with OU. Spectrier forces you to run subpar mons if you want to have a team strong against it - some of these subpar mons even requiring extra support to properly beat spectrier. Not-so-great sets like shadow ball blissey and defensive hydreigon being somewhat common just makes this incredibly clear. I honestly just can’t wait for spectrier to go away lol so I can properly enjoy teambuilding again.

9. My favorite mons to use are pheromosa, zapdos, and toxapex right now. They just do so much for a team, it’s hard for me to build something without at least two of them.
 
Last edited:
Before giving off my answers to the above usual questions, I want to bring attention to specific mons.



Lando-T being #1 with 28.37% usage is probably the most surprising thing on the surface, especially since no one has been talking about this mon being a top tier threat. Heck, it even got a mere A tier in the recent official VR.
However, it is so dang versatile on what it can do. With Intimidate, the lack of HP Ice, and it's great typing, the mon switches in and applies rocks very easily. The scarf sets are also pretty good in the metagame, and there are a few sub-toxic sets being used, although more niche in comparison to the defensive and scarf sets.
In other words, aside from losing Z-moves, which does hurt in the grand scheme of things (which is why it will likely never reach the peak of usage gen 7 Lando-T had), it does pretty much the same things it did in gen 7, with no HP Ice to worry about, and Intimidate spreading being more important considering all the powerful physical attackers in the tier.



Considering that this mon is currently in the conversation of being potentially banworthy (which it still may be), seeing it merely be #10 with only a 15.92% usage rate is bit disappointing. It is a drop from the 18.09% usage it was in the first-half of the month. It is still an amazing mon, with the ability hit all non-Ghost resists hard, and pass wisps to all of its checks.
However, a reason to why I think it's usage dropped, is likely due to more teams running Spectrier checks to deal with it. It may be suspected later for being potentially too overcentralizing to the meta, but I don't quite feel that way right now.



Speaking of mons with disappointing usage for being such controversial mons in the thread (and highly ranked in the VR), the Kanto Slowtwins are quite a big talking point thanks to the powerful combination of Future Sight + Teleport + Regenerator. It is combined even further when using powerful breakers like Urshifu, who has risen in usage this time around.
However Slowbro, while it is higher than its #28 usage in the previous usage rankings, is still not even top 20 in usage, being ranked just outside of it at #21. Slowking didn't even make the cutoff, being #47 at 2.812% usage (still stuck at RU), while it's Galarian counterpart did make the cutoff, more on that later.
I personally think the threat of FuturePort, while great, is being a bit overblown by this thread. I think Gingy earlier in the thread kinda covered it already, but none of the top breakers in the meta has been pushed over the edge thanks to FuturePort, and be consistent enough to be considered banworthy. They may have been pushed over the edge, but FuturePort is far from the reason why that is. FuturePort is simply of good component of offense that has a bunch of already established strategies.
Slowbro is a very great mon, and I could see this mon eventually reach top 20 in usage, but I think it is being a bit overblown.
Slowking is also a solid mon, and deserves a place in the OU meta despite not being OU, but I think that its place in the meta is being overblown as well, especially since bulky water competition in Slowbro, Tapu Fini, and Swampert is very strong right now.



Speaking of Galarian counterpart, the black sheep of the rankings this time around is this mon. Nidoking and Barraskewda was in the previous rankings, before being established as true powerful threats in the OU meta (especially the former), but Glowking barely crept in the OU usage rankings, even over its Kantonian counterpart which a lot of people put in much higher praise.
However, when you look on what it does, then things become crystal clear. To put it simply as said by Jordy:
Galarian Slowking's Assault Vest set is quite potent as a balance breaker; it puts a dent into cores like Clefable + Toxapex + Mandibuzz really well, and it is one of the best checks to Quiver Dance Pheromosa as well as some other miscellaneous threats like Tapu Lele, Latios, and Tapu Fini.
In comparison to Slowking, Glowking trades 10 less points in attack (which is useless to it) and applies it to special attack. Not only it a very good mon defensively thanks to retaining base 110 special defense + Regenerator + can afford to run AV, but it also puts in some great damage thanks to its base 110 special attack, the best attacking stat of all the Slow-kuza.
In comparison to Slowking, Glowking is not quite as potent defensively and as a support, due to Water/Psychic > Poison/Psychic defensively and the lack of Teleport, Glowking is still very good in these aspects, while being far more potent offensively thanks to it's higher special attack. It's bulk is also helped out that it can afford to run AV, while Slowking needs the support moves in order to function in OU.
Being immune to Toxic + eating up Toxic Spikes is also a very desirable quality to have, especially since it is easier than ever to place Toxic Spikes on front of people's faces.
Overall, while it took a while to get the ball rolling for this mon, although it understandably didn't exist in the Zygarde meta, this mon is very potent in the right teams, and currently does deserve a spot in the OU usage rankings.



As I predicted, Moltres exploded in usage. Defensive Moltres is extremely potent right now, but I have also seen offensive Moltres being run occasionally, with some good success. Nothing else to add... to this mon is here to stay.



I had a feeling this may happen, but this mon's time in OU seems to be almost up. It will always have a nice niche in the tier, with its unmatched speed tier, destructive electric STAB, and being arguably the dual screen setter in the tier. However, it's glaring flaws are also very prevalent as well.
I thought it would do better with Zygarde being gone. However, Landorus-T rose to be the #1 mon in the tier (in terms of usage), and mons like Garchomp, Nidoking, and Hippowdon rose in usage since the ban, while mons like Swampert and Excadrill remain popular. The current climate is simply very unfavorable to Regieleki to exist in.
It may drop to UU next shift, but considering the lower power level, and that Nidoqueen, Krookodile, and Mamoswine are literally the only ground types in the tier, I doubt its stay in UU is going to last very long.


That is all I have so far.
 
1. What surprised you the most from these stats?
2. Among the mons with increased usage, which ones do you believe will continue to see an increase in usage?
3. Among the mons with decreased usage, which ones do you believe will continue to see a decrease in usage?
4. What mons do you think are underrated and may see higher usage in the future?
5. What mons do you think are overrated and may see less usage in the future?
6. How do you feel about the most common offensive mons in the tier, and how do they impact the tier?
7. How do you feel about the most common defensive mons in the tier, and what are some common defensive cores you see?
8. How do you feel about team building? Does it feel like there are too many things to cover, or are there certain mons that restrict building?
9. What are your favorite mons to use in OU right now?
10. I hope you all have a wonderful rest of the day :)
1. Yeah, I have to say Glowking was the most surprising thing for me too. Spectrier and Heatran dropping in usage was also surprising but maybe that’s just because people were using more of Zygarde and Black Kyurem (before they got banned lol). Finally Fini being #11 really surprises me with it being this close to top 10. It’s a great mon, but I was definitely expecting something else (actually multiple something elses) in front of it, and I thought that it won’t be too close to top 10.

2. Clef. It’s now back to number two and I have no doubt that it is going to make it back to number one. Lando-T does give it competition (hey, it was the king of OU last gen), but Clef brings so much to the table that there is near no opportunity cost in using it. Also Moltres is just an amazing defensive birb.

3. Regieleki cuz duh.

4. Buzzwole lost a bit of its appeal due to Zygarde and Black Kyurem getting the boot, but I think it will come back as a fantastic defensive mon. Also with Zygarde and Black Kyurem getting out Blaziken has more of a chance to shine and although I’m not too sure if it will come back to OU its usage will surely rise. Latios dropped a bit but it is still a phenomenal wallbreaker and has great coverage. Finally Spectrier will go back up again as well as motherf*cking Heatran

5. Lando-T will probably drop one place to second below Clef. Other than that I’m not too sure because nothing seems too overrated that isn’t dropping already.

6. Most of what I have to say about Spectrier, Magearna, and Pheromosa (among others) has already been said so I won’t bother adding on anything about them. Cinderace is still a powerful and versatile threat that is really good at making progress, whether it is “setting” and “removing” hazards with Court Change, gaining momentum with U-Turn, or just firing off attacks. As said, it can easily make progress in just about any matchup that involves Toxapex, and it even has Zen Headbutt to help with that too. With the impact thing, Toxapex is used on a lot of teams partly because Cinderace exists, and Moltres and Zapdos are also rising partly because Static/Flame Body greatly punishes Cinderace and takes advantage of Libero.

7. Toxafreakingpex, Ferrof*ckingthorn, and motherfreaking Heatran are all over the place and are a hassle to fight on the battlefield. I’m not saying that they are broken or anything (though I want Pex gone more than anything), but they generally make battles… less fun. Look at the top 10. We have Clef, Ferro, Heatran, Toxapex, Zapdos, and even Magearna and Lando-T to an extent. Defensive mons are really getting hold of this meta. For cores, well we have BlissBro, ClefPex, and stuff like that. I have also seen a couple of the Bulu+Heatran cores (both defensive, mind you).

8. You need a way to deal with Pheromosa, Spectrier, and a few other big offensive threats, but otherwise… to me, it’s not as much of a hassle as some people say. Spectrier is annoying to prep for but other than that I think that the offensive threats are not way too hard to handle and it frees you up more to deal with common defensive cores and whatever else you need.

9. See: all the posts I made about certain Pokemon, but if I had to pick one, I would pick Volcarona. It’s a great fun sweeper, and the only real complaint I have about it is that it is utterly walled by Heatran and Blissey. After a QD, if the opponent does not have a few select mons it’s game over (unless you are unlucky for an attack to miss, though this only really applies to Fire Blast). There is just something about boosting attack and speed at the same time, so that’s why I’m quite fond of Dragon Dance sweepers. However, Volcarona have the rare Quiver Dance (which also boosts SpD), amazing offensive typing, phenomenal base 135 SpA, and nice coverage. It is just a bit matchup dependent (mostly on whether Blissey and Heatran is on the opposing team), but I love playing with it and it doesn’t disappoint.

Edit: No, go away Pheromosa. I don't need your paper-thin bulk and stupid Focus Misses.

10. You too! And wow, it’s December! 2020 is almost ending! 2021 can’t possibly be any worse!
 
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Okay, so I noticed Ferrothorn's growth, and thought that was pretty cool, as Ferrothorn is a tank. But imo, he's being misused as a setter. My personal set for him is
Ferrothorn @ Occa Berry
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 248 HP / 130 Def / 130 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Curse
- Gyro Ball

If you can take out the fire type on the opponents team, you can totally sweep, as ferrothorn can take basically anything else with ease. I've never been a fan of hazards, as all it takes is a good rapid spin, court change, taunt, or block/encore, and the entire thing falls apart. Especially in an OU where everyone chooses the fastest character, a tank like ferrothorn can rip right through. (It also goes well with trick room, if that's your cup of tea)
Cool set, however is definitely not as good as the defensive variant. This is a potential trick room set, but it just gets outdone by stackatacka. And since everyone and their mothers are running fire moves, I find it hard for this to set up curses. It also has no recovery, so a crit flamethrower easy ends its spree.
 

Monky25

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I haven’t seen anyone echo my perspective on the metagame as of yet, so I thought I’d throw my two cents in.

Spectrier
:Spectrier:

Spectrier does not appear to be limiting at first glance, with its premier checks being Mandibuzz, Tyranitar and Blissey. If you’re willing to dip into lower tiers, you can get away with Hydreigon, Incineroar, Obstagoon or Zarude or Scrafty the counter, which all check Spectrier nicely. OU does have other situational checks like SpDef Unaware Clefable, Urshifu-SS and AV Magearna/Melmetal that can come in once or twice to check certain sets, plus some options to revenge kill it (Triple Axel Pheromosa, Jolly/Scarf Dragapult, etc).

There are three problems with Spectrier notwithstanding everything I just said. First, its ability, power and speed tier mandate the use of a sturdy Ghost resist in a way other ghost types do not. While running a Ghost resist was always a noteworthy part of your teambuilding checklist even in prior metagames, Gengar, Aegislash and even Dragapult simply do not snowball out of control the way that Spectrier can (and often does) if you do not run dedicated defensive answers to them. This is the case even if Gengar/Dragapult ran the exact same HexWisp sets that Spectrier often runs. It isn’t any single trait that pushes Spectrier over the edge, but arguably the totality of what it offers that does so.

Second, most of these checks are flawed in some way. They are either forced to check other prominent threats and get worn down easily (Mandibuzz, Tyranitar), are somewhat passive and create free turns for the opponent (Rest Tyranitar), or are taken advantage of by Spectrier itself (Blissey). You could argue that the pokemon best equipped to handle Spectrier are actually the lower-tier mons I noted earlier, and while I am all for experimentation and breaking away from conventional habits, these pokemon do not see consistent usage in OU for a reason and forcing them onto teams to check Spectrier is problematic itself.

Urshifu
:Urshifu:

The third issue I have with Spectrier is actually the same issue I have with Urshifu, and it lays the foundation for why I don’t think Pheromosa could be viewed as problematic in the future. Put simply, while each pokemon has viable checks in the metagame, they each require those checks to be tailored in a way that makes them worse against the other, and vice versa. When you say you need a “Dark” resist in this metagame, you are almost always referring to an Urshifu resist, which consist of Buzzwole, Mandibuzz+Toxapex, or Physically Defensive Clefable. Every other Spectier answer loses to Urshifu, and every Urshifu answer bar Mandibuzz loses to Spectrier. Even Mandibuzz can ultimately be overwhelmed with burn chip damage to a point that it doesn’t check Urshifu as well, and if you don’t run Mandibuzz then you have resigned yourself to dedicating 2+ slots on your team just for these two pokemon. Both of these two pokemon have less than a half-dozen checks which must be tailor made to check them specifically, in a way that few other pokemon in the tier (if any) equally require.

Pheromosa
:pheromosa:

For at least these reasons, I feel we are playing the Spectrier/Urshifu metagame more than the Pheromosa metagame, which has serious implications when it comes to Pheromosa’s impact on the tier. Pheromosa is undoubtedly a great pokemon and it can viably run several different sets, but the issue is that most of the checks you need to cover Pheromosa are made worse by the presence of Spectrier and Urshifu. SpDef Clefable checks QD Pheromosa nicely and soft-checks Spectrier, but loses to Urshifu. Buzzwole checks physical Pheromosa and Urshifu, but loses to Spectrier. Toxapex checks any two of these depending on whether it’s physical or special, but can never check all 3 well at all. The other checks to QD Pheromosa such as Aegislash, G-Slowking, even Victini or AV Magearna are just not as viable at the moment due to being poor options against Spectrier and Urshifu. Without even one of Spectrier or Urshifu, you could probably get away with running a core like Buzzwole+Toxapex, or Mandibuzz+SpDef Clefable, and so on, without getting inevitably and consistently overwhelmed by having to check all three.

This does beg the question as to why we shouldn’t just remove Pheromosa to solve this problem instead of either Spectrier or Urshifu. I strongly disagree with that course of action. First, getting rid of Pheromosa does not actually solve the problem I noted earlier about needing at least 2+ slots for Urshifu and Spectrier – one could even argue it makes it worse. Where I think the metagame still has room to adapt to Pheromosa, I think we have come as far as we can regarding defensive counterplay for Spectrier and Urshifu. Urshifu has had months to develop and we have the answers we have for it, and unless we see an influx of Incineror or something else from lower tiers, I feel we have come as far as we can to handle Spectrier. In the alternative, I think Pheromosa's checks only stand to get better if one of Spectrier/Urshifu are removed.

Second, I think it’s worth looking into what each of these mons adds to the tier. Spectrier really doesn’t add anything more than it takes – there are other ghost types that can take its place, and it tends to function as a self-sufficient breaker for itself anyway. Urshifu probably adds as much as it takes from the tier, but at least it is a nice progress-forcing breaker that I don’t think is independently broken itself. Pheromosa I feel adds a lot to the tier, and I think at this point in the metagame it would be a big mistake to get rid of it. It supports frail/slower breakers with U-turn support to get into play, removes hazards, and helps revenge kill or offensively pressure things like Cinderace, Magearna, +1 Spe Blaziken, Tornadus-T and even opposing Modest Pheromosa with its speed tier. It is precisely this role compression that I find overwhelmingly healthy for the tier (in a way that I don’t feel is necessarily broken), and without its presence I feel the tier will struggle a ton to defensively handle these aforementioned breakers in the long-haul. If you already want some or all of these pokemon to get banned as is, then this probably won’t resonate with you, but I personally do not want to see 5-7 more bans if they could have been avoided by a potentially more optimal order of operations.

Public opinion probably isn’t on my side with this one, but that’s cool, it’s just my opinion as of right now. I enjoy the current metagame, but if there must be imminent tiering action then I would personally suggest Spectrier > Urshifu > Pheromosa, or at least Spectrier first, for all the aforementioned reasons about increased breathing room in teambuilding.
I just want to say your post is very well worded and convinced me that spectrier is the most unhealthy mon in the metagame at the moment. It reaches dracovish levels of centralizing where if you don’t have a check you lose. Before people start to say things about spectrier’s lower usage, let me say the dracovish had lower usage when it was still here even though it was broken because the tier had just adapted to it. Spectrier might not be the best or most used mon in OU, but it has an effect on the tier like no other. I also agree that the removal of spectrier, which offers nothing positive to the metagame unlike urshifu which somewhat threatens fatter builds, will allow urshifu and pheromosa to be checked easier and not be as problematic as it may seem.

Also, for anyone who can answer this, when would it be appropriate to have a suspect test for something in OU? I know I told people to chill with the ban talk, but that was 2 days after zygarde was banned. It’s now been 2 weeks, and I think that we’ve had plenty of time to determine what is problematic or not. We’ve tried different methods for curbing spectrier, some of which are useless mons otherwise and others it can even get around. At least with urshifu I could still beat it even if I didn’t have a defensive switch in but with spectrier it really emphasizes the auto lose factor should you be unable to check it. Anyway, hope someone important reads this and hopefully we can get a spectrier suspect in a week or 2 because my goodness I hate that piece of shit. Lastly, I find it funny how we all thought it would be dogshit from its move pool but it’s now another dracovish lmao.
 
I haven’t seen anyone echo my perspective on the metagame as of yet, so I thought I’d throw my two cents in.

Spectrier
:Spectrier:

Spectrier does not appear to be limiting at first glance, with its premier checks being Mandibuzz, Tyranitar and Blissey. If you’re willing to dip into lower tiers, you can get away with Hydreigon, Incineroar, Obstagoon or Zarude or Scrafty the counter, which all check Spectrier nicely. OU does have other situational checks like SpDef Unaware Clefable, Urshifu-SS and AV Magearna/Melmetal that can come in once or twice to check certain sets, plus some options to revenge kill it (Triple Axel Pheromosa, Jolly/Scarf Dragapult, etc).

There are three problems with Spectrier notwithstanding everything I just said. First, its ability, power and speed tier mandate the use of a sturdy Ghost resist in a way other ghost types do not. While running a Ghost resist was always a noteworthy part of your teambuilding checklist even in prior metagames, Gengar, Aegislash and even Dragapult simply do not snowball out of control the way that Spectrier can (and often does) if you do not run dedicated defensive answers to them. This is the case even if Gengar/Dragapult ran the exact same HexWisp sets that Spectrier often runs. It isn’t any single trait that pushes Spectrier over the edge, but arguably the totality of what it offers that does so.

Second, most of these checks are flawed in some way. They are either forced to check other prominent threats and get worn down easily (Mandibuzz, Tyranitar), are somewhat passive and create free turns for the opponent (Rest Tyranitar), or are taken advantage of by Spectrier itself (Blissey). You could argue that the pokemon best equipped to handle Spectrier are actually the lower-tier mons I noted earlier, and while I am all for experimentation and breaking away from conventional habits, these pokemon do not see consistent usage in OU for a reason and forcing them onto teams to check Spectrier is problematic itself.

Urshifu
:Urshifu:

The third issue I have with Spectrier is actually the same issue I have with Urshifu, and it lays the foundation for why I don’t think Pheromosa could be viewed as problematic in the future. Put simply, while each pokemon has viable checks in the metagame, they each require those checks to be tailored in a way that makes them worse against the other, and vice versa. When you say you need a “Dark” resist in this metagame, you are almost always referring to an Urshifu resist, which consist of Buzzwole, Mandibuzz+Toxapex, or Physically Defensive Clefable. Every other Spectier answer loses to Urshifu, and every Urshifu answer bar Mandibuzz loses to Spectrier. Even Mandibuzz can ultimately be overwhelmed with burn chip damage to a point that it doesn’t check Urshifu as well, and if you don’t run Mandibuzz then you have resigned yourself to dedicating 2+ slots on your team just for these two pokemon. Both of these two pokemon have less than a half-dozen checks which must be tailor made to check them specifically, in a way that few other pokemon in the tier (if any) equally require.

Pheromosa
:pheromosa:

For at least these reasons, I feel we are playing the Spectrier/Urshifu metagame more than the Pheromosa metagame, which has serious implications when it comes to Pheromosa’s impact on the tier. Pheromosa is undoubtedly a great pokemon and it can viably run several different sets, but the issue is that most of the checks you need to cover Pheromosa are made worse by the presence of Spectrier and Urshifu. SpDef Clefable checks QD Pheromosa nicely and soft-checks Spectrier, but loses to Urshifu. Buzzwole checks physical Pheromosa and Urshifu, but loses to Spectrier. Toxapex checks any two of these depending on whether it’s physical or special, but can never check all 3 well at all. The other checks to QD Pheromosa such as Aegislash, G-Slowking, even Victini or AV Magearna are just not as viable at the moment due to being poor options against Spectrier and Urshifu. Without even one of Spectrier or Urshifu, you could probably get away with running a core like Buzzwole+Toxapex, or Mandibuzz+SpDef Clefable, and so on, without getting inevitably and consistently overwhelmed by having to check all three.

This does beg the question as to why we shouldn’t just remove Pheromosa to solve this problem instead of either Spectrier or Urshifu. I strongly disagree with that course of action. First, getting rid of Pheromosa does not actually solve the problem I noted earlier about needing at least 2+ slots for Urshifu and Spectrier – one could even argue it makes it worse. Where I think the metagame still has room to adapt to Pheromosa, I think we have come as far as we can regarding defensive counterplay for Spectrier and Urshifu. Urshifu has had months to develop and we have the answers we have for it, and unless we see an influx of Incineror or something else from lower tiers, I feel we have come as far as we can to handle Spectrier. In the alternative, I think Pheromosa's checks only stand to get better if one of Spectrier/Urshifu are removed.

Second, I think it’s worth looking into what each of these mons adds to the tier. Spectrier really doesn’t add anything more than it takes – there are other ghost types that can take its place, and it tends to function as a self-sufficient breaker for itself anyway. Urshifu probably adds as much as it takes from the tier, but at least it is a nice progress-forcing breaker that I don’t think is independently broken itself. Pheromosa I feel adds a lot to the tier, and I think at this point in the metagame it would be a big mistake to get rid of it. It supports frail/slower breakers with U-turn support to get into play, removes hazards, and helps revenge kill or offensively pressure things like Cinderace, Magearna, +1 Spe Blaziken, Tornadus-T and even opposing Modest Pheromosa with its speed tier. It is precisely this role compression that I find overwhelmingly healthy for the tier (in a way that I don’t feel is necessarily broken), and without its presence I feel the tier will struggle a ton to defensively handle these aforementioned breakers in the long-haul. If you already want some or all of these pokemon to get banned as is, then this probably won’t resonate with you, but I personally do not want to see 5-7 more bans if they could have been avoided by a potentially more optimal order of operations.

Public opinion probably isn’t on my side with this one, but that’s cool, it’s just my opinion as of right now. I enjoy the current metagame, but if there must be imminent tiering action then I would personally suggest Spectrier > Urshifu > Pheromosa, or at least Spectrier first, for all the aforementioned reasons about increased breathing room in teambuilding.
Yeah I'd agree, but I'd say take pheromosa out before urshifu. Everything you said about it being able to beat a lot of threats. Yeah thats the issue. I doubt the tier will struggle against those things, since all of them already have defensive checks. Pheromosa is an offensive preasure on those. Since most of them have defensive counters it's not a big issue if it goes. As for the meta adapting to pheromosa... thats the problem. The meta can't find a counter for all the sets it can run. Its pretty much genesect, but slightly less coverage. I doubt, there is one set, that can counter all pheromosa sets. Really the only thing you can do against pheromosa, is hope that its a set you counter, or spam priority.
 
1. What surprised you the most from these stats?
The continued decline of Zapdos-G. I think a lot of people are egregiously underestimating the offensive pressure that Thunderous Kick can put on opposing teams once Ghost types and Intimidate users have been taken care of. I'd like to also point out that Zapdos-G gets access to Throat Chop, which is an extra way to deal with weakened ghosts. In addition to this, STAB Fighting / Flying-type coverage is impeccable and nails key threats in the metagame. I think people are seeing its average 100 base speed and underestimating its potential. Please, look into this mon more.

2. Among the mons with increased usage, which ones do you believe will continue to see an increase in usage?
Garchomp, easily. This Pokemon has so many fantastic qualities that make it unpredictable and extremely splashable onto many different team archetypes. Need something that can punish physical attackers while setting up hazards and hitting hard back? Garchomp time. Want a physical attacker who both hard counter Regieleki while also running mixed Fire Blast to yeet Ferrothorn? Time for Garchomp. Need a solid set-up sweeper with great STAB moves and solid coverage? Garchomp. I predict Garchomp will break into the top 10, or at least reach as high as 12 in usage.

3. Among the mons with decreased usage, which ones do you believe will continue to see a decrease in usage?
Regieleki, this Pokemon has not acclimated well to the Ground heavy metagame, especially with Landorus-T's prominence as the #1 choice and Garchomp's continued rise to fame. STAB Electric with Normal-type coverage is just not cutting it in a metagame absolutely dominated by both Ground and Ghost types. While its double screens set and access to Rapid Spin still give it a usable niche in OU, the metagame will continue to adapt to it even better.

4. What mons do you think are underrated and may see higher usage in the future?
Zapdos-G for the reasons that I mentioned above. Easily the most underrated Pokemon right now.

5. What mons do you think are overrated and may see less usage in the future?
Pheromosa. Now, I know people might bite my head off here, but I think the only reason that people are so freaked out by this Pokemon right now is because of the Quiver Dance set discovery still being relatively new. There are many options to handle it, and while I still think it will always be S or A+ ranked, I don't think it will stay as high as it is forever. In the top 10? Most likely, but not where it's at currently.

6. How do you feel about the most common offensive mons in the tier, and how do they impact the tier?
I feel as though right now the tier is what Gen 7's OU metagame should have been. The removal of Z-moves as an offensive option was nothing but a blessing for so many different types of strategies and opened up a lot of room for experimentation, and (my favorite thing in all of Pokemon) using lower-tiered Pokemon in OU.

7. How do you feel about the most common defensive mons in the tier, and what are some common defensive cores you see?
I honestly have no opinion on this.

8. How do you feel about team building? Does it feel like there are too many things to cover, or are there certain mons that restrict building?
I feel that Ghost-type offense as a whole (not just Spectrier) including the necessity for Ghost or Dark coverage places a strain on teams, but that it will acclimate in time.

9. What are your favorite mons to use in OU right now?
Honestly, a lot of non-OU Pokemon such as Stonjourner, Audino, Hatterene, Shiftry and Torkoal. If we're specifically talking about OU Pokemon however, I would say that Melmetal, Zapdos-G, Urshifu-SS, and Heatran are my current favorites to use!

10. I hope you all have a wonderful rest of the day :)
You too :)
 

earl

forced 2 wipe
is a Community Contributor
1. What surprised you the most from these stats?I think a lot of people are egregiously underestimating the offensive pressure that Thunderous Kick can put on opposing teams once Ghost types and Intimidate users have been taken care of.
Gapdos appreciates Intimidate users being alive for the attack boost from defiant.

Regardless, the omnipresence of Zapdos/Moltres makes it hard for Gapdos to be truly threatening in the balance matchup, and that 100 speed (alongside Brave Bird chip) makes it more than easy enough to revenge kill for offense. I never struggled against it when I laddered up to 1950 or so and I think the drop is well deserved. If I wanted a nuclear Fighting-type with a spammable secondary STAB, Urshifu is right there.
 
Gapdos appreciates Intimidate users being alive for the attack boost from defiant.

Regardless, the omnipresence of Zapdos/Moltres makes it hard for Gapdos to be truly threatening in the balance matchup, and that 100 speed (alongside Brave Bird chip) makes it more than easy enough to revenge kill for offense. I never struggled against it when I laddered up to 1950 or so and I think the drop is well deserved. If I wanted a nuclear Fighting-type with a spammable secondary STAB, Urshifu is right there.
Gapdos is just another ultra-powerful breaker with unwallable stabs, like Aegislash, Crawdaunt, and to a lesser extent Gengar, Bisharp, and Galarian Moltres. All bring something great to the table that prompt niche usage, like Gapdos's and Bisharp's defog punishing, Aegislash's defensive utility, Gengar's speed, and Galarian Moltres's unpredictability but they are too niche (and still suffer from 1 or 2 hard counters) to see consistent usage, unless they beat so much of the metagame that building around them becomes consistently rewarding.
 

Finchinator

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I think it makes the most sense to tackle Pheromosa first if anything happens to be suspected.

Pheromosa's Quiver Dance set alone makes it one of the strongest Pokemon in the tier, but then you pair it with the potential for the other sets and it's really impossible to cover without resorting to constant usage of Toxapex or Clefable, which obviously alone is insufficient. Nobody whatsoever is trying to resort to this (not to mention it is possible to bypass Toxapex with QD + Shock Wave sets).

Yes, Spectrier is dangerous and I agree it should be looked into if all else holds as well, but the limitations it applies on teambuilding are the main selling point of suspecting it above others right now and we are starting to realize Pheromosa becoming adaptable enough to mimic that characteristic itself in the metagame, warping how we approach it in building as well. I feel like Pheromosa is simply the more problematic of the two because of this and I have felt this way ever since the Quiver Dance set became prevalent. I do believe we should keep a close eye on Spectrier, however.

This does beg the question as to why we shouldn’t just remove Pheromosa to solve this problem instead of either Spectrier or Urshifu. I strongly disagree with that course of action. First, getting rid of Pheromosa does not actually solve the problem I noted earlier about needing at least 2+ slots for Urshifu and Spectrier – one could even argue it makes it worse. Where I think the metagame still has room to adapt to Pheromosa, I think we have come as far as we can regarding defensive counterplay for Spectrier and Urshifu. Urshifu has had months to develop and we have the answers we have for it, and unless we see an influx of Incineror or something else from lower tiers, I feel we have come as far as we can to handle Spectrier. In the alternative, I think Pheromosa's checks only stand to get better if one of Spectrier/Urshifu are removed.
I love a lot of the points you bring up and I think your post has a ton of accurate metagame insight, but I disagree with the core of this argument and I do not think it is in-line with how we approach tiering. You cannot base your priorities for handling the current metagame on potential adaptation of the future metagame; this is essentially a more eloquent way of applying theorymon to arguments. I do not even necessarily think your theory would be wrong, but rather that it should not apply here whatsoever.

Perhaps the case for Pheromosa is less black-and-white than Spectrier (and Urshifu, but I do not view Urshifu as being on the same level as these two yet) moving forward if your logic holds true, but the current picture of counterplay is bleak and limited, which I do not believe even you deny. Considering how punishing Pheromosa is coupled with it being as restrictive as anything else, which I tried to touch on above, leads me to believe that it is the most pressing issue right now. I feel like Pheromosa makes the tier close to unplayable honestly.
 

Red Raven

I COULD BE BANNED!
Well, here's my answers

1. What surprised you the most from these stats?

:Landorus-Therian: being number one. I feel like it's pretty meh this generation so I'm still surprised it is among the top ten

:Hydreigon: using a defensive set. I'm legit surprised at this one then again, I guess I should have seen it coming



2. Among the mons with increased usage, which ones do you believe will continue to see an increase in usage?

:Nidoking: Without the right prediction or Blissey teleport, this thing is a nightmare to switch into and take out. Ice beam, thunderbolt + stabs are more than enough to pressure over have the game

:Slowbro: I said it before, future sight just catapults this pokemon to new levels of annoyance

:Moltres: Just a reliable bird. It's burn is sometimes even more valuable than Zapdo's paralysis



3. Among the mons with decreased usage, which ones do you believe will continue to see a decrease in usage?

:Spectrier: This was my same answer as before and I will say it again. I'm still surprised it is in the top ten but honestly, I think this would continue to drop in usage as the game just adapted to it

:Zapdos-Galar:
Not surprised. The other birds are more useful because of the defensive utility. There is a reason why Staraptor isn't that good in ou and this one just proves that

4. What mons do you think are underrated and may see higher usage in the future?

:Tapu Lele: This thing was a nightmare to switch into without a steel type last gen. I think this is the same as well and it having the ability to check Dark Urshifu when scarfed is incredibly useful

5. . What mons do you think are overrated and may see less usage in the future?

:Landorus-Therian: I just don't understand why this thing is even in the top ten. It's intimidate isn't as useful anymore and as a defensive flying type, the birds does that better. It does get a role compression but it is incredibly prone to being worn down. I think it is overrated but I don't think the usage will drop

6. How do you feel about the most common offensive mons in the tier, and how do they impact the tier?

Absolute bullshit. Buzzwall is now almost mandatory otherwise Dark Urshifu will literally blow a hole in your team. Pheromosa is even more bullshit as you can never tell what set it's running until it reveals itself. Despite the decreased usage, Spectrier is still annoying as hell. Magearna with it's annoying shift gear stored power makes me wanna dismantle that robot mon. Garchomp just threatens to rip apart entire teams after a swords dance if they lack physical priority

7. How do you feel about the most common defensive mons in the tier, and what are some common defensive cores you see?

Buzzwall + bird / Blissey. It's no surprise as Buzzwall just straight up walls many of the most threatening physical mons while special attackers get walled by Blissey

8. How do you feel about team building? Does it feel like there are too many things to cover, or are there certain mons that restrict building?

Somehow I feel like building a team against Zygarde and Kyurem was easier. Every single game I have to put Buzzwall since it is the only pokemon I can think of that walls Urshifu and doesn't instantly lose to swords dance Garchomp. In short, it is still restrictive and I find it unhealthy as I still have only four mons to choose from with two being taken up by Buzzwall and my choice of Spectrier counter, which are very limited on its own

9. What are your favorite mons to use in OU right now?

I just love it when I go up against teams without any physical priority or unaware Clefable

:Moltres: This one has definitely overtaken Zapdos as my favorite bird. I feel like Moltres' presence instantly invalidates Melmetal on a team. It can just spam roost as it fishes for burns, doesn't instantly die to thunder punch and once Melmetal is burned, it can shoot flames at it

:Swampert: Somehow I find this one to be my current favorite bulky water. It doesn't instantly lose to a non stab unboosted grass move and has access to stealth rock while at the same time, not instantly dying to Tapu Koko

:Buzzwole: This is almost a requirement on every team I make. It completely walls Garchomp and Landorus and threatens to poison any switch ins, especially the birds. It also stuffs Urshifu, which is always welcome

:Tyranitar: Good old Tyranitar. Being one of the only few pokemon that counters Spectrier, it's just fun to use it especially since I use a sand team as one of my main teams
 
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Katy

Banned deucer.
Hello everyone, I wanna talk more about the different offensive archetypes in SSOU because there are plenty of them running around in the current metagame and I want to talk about them why they are worth trying or why they could face issues in the current metagame in Sword & Shield OU!

To kick this thread off, I want to talk about Trick Room first.

Trick Room in SSOU:

What I've recognized is that Trick Room isn't that much used like it used to be in the past, as I feel it has a really tough time currently with metagame staples like Pheromosa, Spectrier, Urshifu-S and Magearna running the place currently. It's hard to set the Trick Room, when every team has at least 1 of the aforementioned Pokemon to tackle the setters immediately. Even Taunt versions of Heatran and Tapu Fini can shut down a TR-setter with taunt and Hydreigon also flourishes in usage due to how common Spectrier is right now.

The Trick Room Setters and Abusers are usually:
:Cresselia: :porygon2: :magearna: :uxie: :hatterene:
:glastrier: :conkeldurr: :marowak-alola: :mimikyu: :stakataka: :magearna: :hatterene:

But they all face the 1 issue, that Pheromosa, Spectrier and Urshifu-S are really common and they are able to threaten them from the get go.
Magearna is a more safe approach to Pheromosa and Spectrier due to how bulky it is, but it still faces the weakness of getting Taunted by Heatran to shut down Trick Room-settings. I feel like because the Metagame is so fast and offensive that archetype has a tough time currently to thrive and it doesn't feel as reliable as it was. Another big part is the fact that people start to calm down with the new toys they've been given, which results in less and less Trick Room-usage on the ladder.

Rain in SSOU:

:pelipper:

Rain currently is a strong archetype with plenty of new useful tool it gaines, be it Heavy-Duty Boots Zapdos with Weather Ball to reliably tackle bulky Rock- and Ground-types or with Hurricane which furthers Zapdos breaking potential in rain. Thunder is also a high BP STAB move and hits non-resists like a truck as Zapdos profits from a high SpA-stat. Tornadus-T is also a key member and finds itself in various rain teams with its new toy in Nasty Plot which can turn Tornadus-T into a deadly breaker with nearly unresistet coverage-options in Hurricane, Heat Wave, and Focus Blast with the latter being able to tackle strong Steel- and Rock-types such as Heatran and Tyranitar for super effective damage.

Rain in general is thriving in usage because it has plenty of great abusers and plenty of utility options in Ferrothorn and Swampert, which gives these teams sturdy resists to common attacks like electric and grass. Furthermore Ferrothorn and Swampert both can lay out Stealth Rocks and Swampert even has Flip Turn to bring a partner in safely. Such partners are Barraskewda, Urshifu-R, Zapdos, Tornadus-T, and occosionally Kingdra / Azumarill.


Hail-Veil in SSOU:

:ninetales-alola: :arctozolt:

With Arctozolt gaining the Hidden Ability Slush Rush Hail-Veil-teams are really popular not only on ladder but also in Tournament games.
Ninetales-Alola is the Setter of choice with shutting down many Pokemon with the incredible annoying Hypnosis, to grant its teammates a free setup opportunity. A newly found member is Arctozolt as mentioned above with its newly gained HA, it sees usage on these kind of teams as well. With a hard hitting Bolt Beak and aother common attacks like Icicle Crash and Freeze-Dry it profits from a physical variant of the so called superb BoltBeam-coverage and Freeze-Dry hits everything, which is able to resist its coverage pretty hard, such as Swampert, Kingdra, and occosionally Quagsire. I feel like this archetype with partners such as Spectrier, Cinderace, Magearna, and other great setup Pokemon such as Garchomp, Urshifu-S, and Suicune it will definitely be a great Hyper Offensive options on the ladder and I feel like this archetype might have potential in the and is worth to explore more.

Sand in SSOU:

:Tyranitar: :Excadrill: :Dracozolt:

Sand is really an interesting part of the metagame, as it is always relaible and conistent at what it does. Teammates such as tyranitar which is the Setter and Excadrill and Dracozolt, which profit from each otehrs breaking power are really great options, Even :Hippowdon: found its way in OU once again. I feel like Dracozolt and Excadrill combined with other teampartners like Urshifu-S, Ferrothorn, and Slowking are great options. Slowking and Ferrothorn can tackle the 1 big issue Sand has and this is Rain. But with Slowking threatening such abusers Urshifu-R and Kingdra with a Future Sight and being able to switch out slowly via Teleport it is a great support option for Sand. Furthermore Ferrothorn can tackle Barraskewda, which is highly threatening to that archetype. I feel that Sand is very strong and consistent in the current metagame and is in my opinion the second best archetype behind rain, when it comes to weather reliant ones.

General Conclusion on Offensive Playstyles:

I think that both, rain and sand, are currently very strong in the metagame, as they have the tools to tackle their weak spots with utilizing great teammates which are listed above. Trick Room fell down in usage, as the metagame currently is too fast paced and too offensive to reliably set the Rooms but it can easily revive itself, as soon as a great metagame trend happens, however I feel like the usage will stay in the lower end of the card, but it could get a slight uptick.
Hail-Veil on the other hand seems like an archetype to dive further into with Arctozolts BoltBeam-Coverage and its Hidden Ability in Slush Rush and a good setter in Ninetales-Alola.

General Metagame conclusion:

:Pheromosa: easily is the best Pokemon in the tier with reliable Sets and plenty of options to counter its checks with the Quiver Dance-Set and even the Choice Band-set. QD profits from a strong Shock Wave, which wears down its check in Moltres, Tapu Fini, and Toxapex, whereas Poison Jab found its way on the CB-Set to dish out a lot of damage to Tapu Fini and Clefable.
:Blaziken: It is such an awkward Pokemon with having plenty of issues currently, first of all, its issue lies on the 4MSS, it can't hit everything, what it wants to hit and second of all, its the nature, being Jolly means you outpace certain threats such as Spectrier but you lack the immediate breaking power. And with the metagame that fast and offensive it has a tough time to come in all the time, as it has a low initial Speed being 80 which means it gets oputsped naturally by a lot of Pokemon. I just feel this Pokemon doesn't have the potential to be a top tier threat right now, but still will find a place on some teams with support for it.
:zapdos-galar: this Pokemon has a great typing, however it struggles to break consistently because it lacks the reliable recovery in form of Roost so dishing out hard hitting Brave Birds hurts it more often than not. Its being held back by this fact and it just doesn't have a great time in OU with plenty of Pokemon, which are able to wear it down easily be it with entry hazards or with occosional Rocky Helmet-chip.

Thank you for reading and have a great day everyone!
 
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Back to spamming Toxapex and Clefable as that's clearly all I want the metagame to evolve into~
You forgot Mandibuzz. Thanks for this post, though, gave me some great ideas!

I haven’t seen anyone echo my perspective on the metagame as of yet, so I thought I’d throw my two cents in.

Spectrier
:Spectrier:

Spectrier does not appear to be limiting at first glance, with its premier checks being Mandibuzz, Tyranitar and Blissey. If you’re willing to dip into lower tiers, you can get away with Hydreigon, Incineroar, Obstagoon or Zarude or Scrafty the counter, which all check Spectrier nicely. OU does have other situational checks like SpDef Unaware Clefable, Urshifu-SS and AV Magearna/Melmetal that can come in once or twice to check certain sets, plus some options to revenge kill it (Triple Axel Pheromosa, Jolly/Scarf Dragapult, etc).

There are three problems with Spectrier notwithstanding everything I just said. First, its ability, power and speed tier mandate the use of a sturdy Ghost resist in a way other ghost types do not. While running a Ghost resist was always a noteworthy part of your teambuilding checklist even in prior metagames, Gengar, Aegislash and even Dragapult simply do not snowball out of control the way that Spectrier can (and often does) if you do not run dedicated defensive answers to them. This is the case even if Gengar/Dragapult ran the exact same HexWisp sets that Spectrier often runs. It isn’t any single trait that pushes Spectrier over the edge, but arguably the totality of what it offers that does so.

Second, most of these checks are flawed in some way. They are either forced to check other prominent threats and get worn down easily (Mandibuzz, Tyranitar), are somewhat passive and create free turns for the opponent (Rest Tyranitar), or are taken advantage of by Spectrier itself (Blissey). You could argue that the pokemon best equipped to handle Spectrier are actually the lower-tier mons I noted earlier, and while I am all for experimentation and breaking away from conventional habits, these pokemon do not see consistent usage in OU for a reason and forcing them onto teams to check Spectrier is problematic itself.

Urshifu
:Urshifu:

The third issue I have with Spectrier is actually the same issue I have with Urshifu, and it lays the foundation for why I don’t think Pheromosa could be viewed as problematic in the future. Put simply, while each pokemon has viable checks in the metagame, they each require those checks to be tailored in a way that makes them worse against the other, and vice versa. When you say you need a “Dark” resist in this metagame, you are almost always referring to an Urshifu resist, which consist of Buzzwole, Mandibuzz+Toxapex, or Physically Defensive Clefable. Every other Spectier answer loses to Urshifu, and every Urshifu answer bar Mandibuzz loses to Spectrier. Even Mandibuzz can ultimately be overwhelmed with burn chip damage to a point that it doesn’t check Urshifu as well, and if you don’t run Mandibuzz then you have resigned yourself to dedicating 2+ slots on your team just for these two pokemon. Both of these two pokemon have less than a half-dozen checks which must be tailor made to check them specifically, in a way that few other pokemon in the tier (if any) equally require.

Pheromosa
:pheromosa:

For at least these reasons, I feel we are playing the Spectrier/Urshifu metagame more than the Pheromosa metagame, which has serious implications when it comes to Pheromosa’s impact on the tier. Pheromosa is undoubtedly a great pokemon and it can viably run several different sets, but the issue is that most of the checks you need to cover Pheromosa are made worse by the presence of Spectrier and Urshifu. SpDef Clefable checks QD Pheromosa nicely and soft-checks Spectrier, but loses to Urshifu. Buzzwole checks physical Pheromosa and Urshifu, but loses to Spectrier. Toxapex checks any two of these depending on whether it’s physical or special, but can never check all 3 well at all. The other checks to QD Pheromosa such as Aegislash, G-Slowking, even Victini or AV Magearna are just not as viable at the moment due to being poor options against Spectrier and Urshifu. Without even one of Spectrier or Urshifu, you could probably get away with running a core like Buzzwole+Toxapex, or Mandibuzz+SpDef Clefable, and so on, without getting inevitably and consistently overwhelmed by having to check all three.

This does beg the question as to why we shouldn’t just remove Pheromosa to solve this problem instead of either Spectrier or Urshifu. I strongly disagree with that course of action. First, getting rid of Pheromosa does not actually solve the problem I noted earlier about needing at least 2+ slots for Urshifu and Spectrier – one could even argue it makes it worse. Where I think the metagame still has room to adapt to Pheromosa, I think we have come as far as we can regarding defensive counterplay for Spectrier and Urshifu. Urshifu has had months to develop and we have the answers we have for it, and unless we see an influx of Incineror or something else from lower tiers, I feel we have come as far as we can to handle Spectrier. In the alternative, I think Pheromosa's checks only stand to get better if one of Spectrier/Urshifu are removed.

Second, I think it’s worth looking into what each of these mons adds to the tier. Spectrier really doesn’t add anything more than it takes – there are other ghost types that can take its place, and it tends to function as a self-sufficient breaker for itself anyway. Urshifu probably adds as much as it takes from the tier, but at least it is a nice progress-forcing breaker that I don’t think is independently broken itself. Pheromosa I feel adds a lot to the tier, and I think at this point in the metagame it would be a big mistake to get rid of it. It supports frail/slower breakers with U-turn support to get into play, removes hazards, and helps revenge kill or offensively pressure things like Cinderace, Magearna, +1 Spe Blaziken, Tornadus-T and even opposing Modest Pheromosa with its speed tier. It is precisely this role compression that I find overwhelmingly healthy for the tier (in a way that I don’t feel is necessarily broken), and without its presence I feel the tier will struggle a ton to defensively handle these aforementioned breakers in the long-haul. If you already want some or all of these pokemon to get banned as is, then this probably won’t resonate with you, but I personally do not want to see 5-7 more bans if they could have been avoided by a potentially more optimal order of operations.

Public opinion probably isn’t on my side with this one, but that’s cool, it’s just my opinion as of right now. I enjoy the current metagame, but if there must be imminent tiering action then I would personally suggest Spectrier > Urshifu > Pheromosa, or at least Spectrier first, for all the aforementioned reasons about increased breathing room in teambuilding.
Just want to say that I really like your post. One thing I like about it is that it avoids the typical trap of describing the Pokemon before talking about its metagame position.

Every single time someone posts about Spectrier or Slowbro or whatever, they'll say something like,

"This Pokemon's access to Regenerator, Teleport, and Future Sight make it one of the best options for bulky offense teams. Teleport gains its team momentum because you can Future Sight, then Teleport on the next turn..."

and also then something like "Regenerator means that coupled with its amazing/solid/spectacular/[insert unnecessary descriptive adjective here], Slowbro can..."
...Just a laundry list of qualities with the actual point at the end.

I have no idea why, but about 60-70% of the longer posts discussing individual Pokemon in this thread follow this format. More than half the post ends up being things that we all know already and are repeated even if the post immediately above just did that.

You avoided that entirely and got right to the meat of your argument. Well worth a read, and saves everybody time. Cheers.

pls ban pheromosa tho
 
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1. What surprised you the most from these stats?
2. Among the mons with increased usage, which ones do you believe will continue to see an increase in usage?
3. Among the mons with decreased usage, which ones do you believe will continue to see a decrease in usage?
4. What mons do you think are underrated and may see higher usage in the future?
5. What mons do you think are overrated and may see less usage in the future?
6. How do you feel about the most common offensive mons in the tier, and how do they impact the tier?
7. How do you feel about the most common defensive mons in the tier, and what are some common defensive cores you see?
8. How do you feel about team building? Does it feel like there are too many things to cover, or are there certain mons that restrict building?
9. What are your favorite mons to use in OU right now?
10. I hope you all have a wonderful rest of the day :)
Alright, let's do this.

1. Definately Glowking. I actually used Glowking for a little bit very early in the new meta (like, the first week,) and while i found it to be ok, I dropped it in favor of slowbro shortly after. I think it has potential, with good bulk and SpA as well as a fantastic move pool. It'll play a different role from the original slowtwins due to it not having teleport, but it can still be pretty good. I just didn't expect it to rise to OU.

2. Garchomp will probably continue to rise, especially now that zygarde is gone. My favorite set is SD but it can also function as a mixed attacker or a stealth rock setter. Slowbro is also likely to rise with how good futureport is. I'm honestly surprised that thing is outside the top 20.

3. Regileki, easily. It has a good niche because of its speed and powerful STABs, but its just to hard for an electric type with no coverage to find a place in a meta with plenty of good ground types.

4. I honestly can't believe Dragonite is all the way down at #40. HDB+Multiscale basically guarantees it gets a turn to dragon dance, and it has great coverage. It was outclassed by Kyub and Zygarde, so now that they're gone, Dragonite will likely rise. I also think dragapult should be higher, as it is able to outspeed and ohko non-scarfed Spectrier, and can hit it through sub.

5. I like Swampert, flip turn is great, it's got good bulk and it checks a lot of things, but honestly, I think #16 is a bit to high. Being a defensive mon without recover means it gets worn down easily and neither of its abilities are that good.

6. I did a post on this before where I talked about this, right now the tier is dominated by the big 3 of Pheromosa, Spectrier and Urshifu. These guys are easily the 3 best offensive threats in the tier. Magearna is also very dangerous, having multiple great sets and basically a better version of spectrier's snowballing ability. Cinderace and Nidoking are also great.

7. Clefable and Toxapex are still the top defensive pokemon, both are great to use and very annoying to play against. The Kanto birds are great, they check plenty of things and can spread status with their abilities. I think those two (sorry Articuno) are one of the main reasons Blaziken fell off. I also like Buzzwall a lot, even after Zygarde got banned. It's arguably the best Urshifu check in the tier, it can check Garchomp and Lando with ice punch and because of its high attack stat it can both take hits and dish them out.

8. I don't like how restricting spectrier is. It sucks that if you don't dedicate a slot on your team to a ghost resist, you'll essentially autolose to any team that runs spectrier. Other than that, I don't really have much of a problem with team building. Most of the other big threats allow you to get somewhat creative with how you check them, or they have multiple sets like Pheromosa, and you can't really game plan for them.

9. Cinderace is fun as hell to use, its fantastic coverage and STAB everything from libero makes it one of my favorites. Nidoking is a rising star and another favorite of mine. I did a post on Nido before where I go into detail, but basically, Its sheer force moves hit like a truck and it has winning matchups against a bunch of the good defensive mons in the tier. I also like Dragonite a lot for reasons stated above, and slowbro because regen futureport.

10. Thanks, and happy holidays!
 

Cri

The Unbeatable
I found out while making teams that this Nidoking's Revenger set is amazing!


name: Revenger
move 1: Earth Power
move 2: Sludge Wave
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Fire Blast
item: Choice Specs
ability: Sheer Force
nature: Modest
EVS: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe

And hoping to reserve it for OU analysis:)
 
I found out while making teams that this Nidoking's Revenger set is amazing!


name: Revenger
move 1: Earth Power
move 2: Sludge Wave
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Fire Blast
item: Choice Specs
ability: Sheer Force
nature: Modest
EVS: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe

And hoping to reserve it for OU analysis:)
scarf is a crazy revenger too
 
I found out while making teams that this Nidoking's Revenger set is amazing!


name: Revenger
move 1: Earth Power
move 2: Sludge Wave
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Fire Blast
item: Choice Specs
ability: Sheer Force
nature: Modest
EVS: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe

And hoping to reserve it for OU analysis:)
In mostly every case Life Orb outclasses Specs. You have around the same damage output except now you can't be taken advantage of by Slowbro and other regenerator mons who can switch in once and then regen out into an immunity, which to Ground and Poison is on nearly every team. Of course, if you click Ice Beam or Fire Blast bro resists it and can Scald or set up a Future Sight on you. The only relevant damage different that I can think of off the top of my head is 100% chance to 2HKO Max Max Calm AV Glowking versus 78.5% chance to 2HKO, but the fact that you are specs means they can just pivot out into a Hydreigon or Corviknight or something and gain everything back from Regenerator.

Edit: Also, you mention the nickname "Revenger," but unless it's a Movie/Culture reference I'm not aware of Modest Nidoking with no bulk has very little revenge killing prowess, seeing as so many mons are faster and can OHKO/nearly OHKO (and render King useless). Scarf Nidoking works as a revenger better as it still dishes out damage and is faster so it doesn't need to take a hit.

please correct me if i missed something somewhere
 

Cri

The Unbeatable
In mostly every case Life Orb outclasses Specs. You have around the same damage output except now you can't be taken advantage of by Slowbro and other regenerator mons who can switch in once and then regen out into an immunity, which to Ground and Poison is on nearly every team. Of course, if you click Ice Beam or Fire Blast bro resists it and can Scald or set up a Future Sight on you. The only relevant damage different that I can think of off the top of my head is 100% chance to 2HKO Max Max Calm AV Glowking versus 78.5% chance to 2HKO, but the fact that you are specs means they can just pivot out into a Hydreigon or Corviknight or something and gain everything back from Regenerator.
That is known, after studying this.. they fear u would fire blast corvi so they switch to slowbro, and then u use sludge wave, they go to Corvi and so forth. And Nido ends up losing health from life orb. :blobthumbsup:
plus since both cases depend on prediction, so specs is better generally.
 
That is known, after studying this.. they fear u would fire blast corvi so they switch to slowbro, and then u use sludge wave, they go to Corvi and so forth. And Nido ends up losing health from life orb. :blobthumbsup:
Nidoking doesn't lose health from Life Orb because of its Sheer Force Ability, meaning Life Orb has 0 drawbacks whatsoever and you can keep sitting there firing off attacks and they're the ones taking damage from Rocks and your attacks. With Specs once you miss that first prediction it's over, but with Life Orb the Corv/Bro has to switch out again (taking more chip) fearing your coverage move
 
Some thoughts on more niche pokemon that I've been experimenting with:

Victini :victini: has a good defensive typing, and can be useful attacking from either side. Like most Fire types, it benefits from heavy duty boots. On the physical side, I've been running V-Create / Bolt Strike / ZenButt, with U-Turn as a last slot. On the special side, Blue Flare / Psychic / Scorching Sands is surprisingly effective, hitting Heatran along with threatening Tyranitar. I've tried Searing Shot over Blue Flare, but Searing Shot really doesn't have enough PP to justify the burn chance. For a last slot on Special-based Tini, Future Sight is a cool technique. In fact, I've found Victini and Tapu Lele :tapu lele: are both very effective Future Sight users (shoutout Dread for the Future Sight Lele tip). Future Sight under Psychic Terrain in particular is a hugely underappreciated threat. Lele has a lot of set versatility in general, being able surprise checks with coverage and Choice sets.

Tapu Koko and Zapdos are the king of the Electrics, but Thundy-I :thundurus: and Thundy-T :thundurus-therian: certainly have their place. Thundy-I with Heavy Duty Boots, Prankster and TWave returns as a emergency sweeper stop, crippling threats like Phero, Scarf Spect and Barra. I've tried a couple different sets, with the most useful being NP + TWave + 2 attacks and a mixed set with Knock, TWave, TBolt and a free slot. With Thundy-T I've found some success with an Agility set, with Thunderbolt / Focus Blast / Sludge Wave or other coverage. On a Rain team, Agility w/ Thunder, Weather Ball and Focus Blast is a decent set, providing an Electric immunity as well. I thought Raikou would do better due to ganining Scald and a non-restricted Aura Sphere, but as of right now its underwhelmed. In the event Phero and / or Spect leave the tier, Raikou might find a bit more of a foothold but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Togekiss :Togekiss: is a great member on balance and bulky offense teams, with a set of Air Slash / Roost / Nasty Plot / Heal Bell proving to be valuable. It can stallbreak pretty effectively, provides a solid defensive typing, and Heal Bell support is hugely underrated. Heal Bell allows me to play a little more fast and loose with wallbreakers that are otherwise crippled by Scald, TWave and other status, and give them another shot at beating up on fat walls. Another somewhat underrated Fairy is Tapu Bulu :Tapu Bulu:. Rilla is a much better wallbreaker and the priority Grassy Glide provides is well worth it in a lot of situations. Bulu excels over Rilla defensively though due to its Fairy typing and access to Horn Leech and Synthesis. A bulky SD set with Leftovers enjoys a lot of passive recovery even in the event it forgoes Synthesis, and an Assault Vest set is incredibly bulky and can net some recovery via Horn Leech. I have found Bulu a lot less notable in the post-Zygarde meta, but it can still play a decent role.
 

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