Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion Thread v7 (Usage Stats in post #3539)

Hello what do you think of volcarona now? Personally, I would say that we should give it a suspect test to see people's opinions on the pokemon, given that it has been debated for almost 11 years. Indeed it is manageable by a lot of pokemon like dragonite, dragapult or same heatran but suddenly it means that it forces to play its pokémons in addition to that the pokemon has a good movepool which can surprise pokémons supposed to check it like blissey with a set safeguard. in 7g is that each team is 6-0 by a set of volcarona.
 
Many teams can deal with it, setting up is a challenge since it has to avoid everything from being knocked into getting forced out, or getting toxic'ed halting its sweep, or just being pressured to hard by common pokemon. It has a hard time to set up against pokemon like urshifu-r, toxapex, landorus-t, tornadus-t and other pokemon. Sure it has ways to bypass by setting up on ferrothorn for ex. or a choice locked pokemon such as kartana. But that is what makes it good, it has its flaws, and its sometimes hit or miss
 
Hello what do you think of volcarona now? Personally, I would say that we should give it a suspect test to see people's opinions on the pokemon, given that it has been debated for almost 11 years. Indeed it is manageable by a lot of pokemon like dragonite, dragapult or same heatran but suddenly it means that it forces to play its pokémons in addition to that the pokemon has a good movepool which can surprise pokémons supposed to check it like blissey with a set safeguard. in 7g is that each team is 6-0 by a set of volcarona.
Honestly, I think Volcarona is far from the most oppressive mon. You’ve already brought up how Dragonite and Heatran can take on Volc, but that’s just the tip of the iceberg; Volc needs a bunch of boosts before it can break Blissey, which can permanently cripple it with TWave. If Volc is the Safeguard set, that means it’s running mono- Fire STAB, which combined with lower SpA investment allows bulky Fini, Tyranitar, Slowking and Pex to safely take it on (Pex can even Haze away its boosts). Volc also dislikes more SpD investment on Hippo and Lando, who along with Garchomp can smack it with EQ (also Hippo can just slack off any damage). Faster offensive mons like Pult, Torn and Zeraora force it out before it can boost, especially thanks to pivot support, and Scarf Fini can either Hydro it or ruin it with Trick. Even if it does get set up, you can revenge it with Urshifu Aqua Jet or Bisharp Sucker Punch. Volc has plenty of available counterplay and even with the offensive focus of the current meta can be handled by a variety of mons.
 
There is no value to sourcing input from muppets. No offense to individuals, but this place needs to either lock-up the decision making to the people who know what's what (the purported members of the councils) and stop the facade of community contribution, or otherwise move to a data-based framework that doesn't operate on feelings of problems. I'm happy to offer suggestions on how that can be done in the appropriate forum. There are plenty of metrics easily source-able or already existing in the Smogon/stats database.

And finchinator I get your pint, but there's no denying this thread is just dogpiling on "dissent". A problem's only a problem when it's demonstrably so.
 
There is no value to sourcing input from muppets. No offense to individuals, but this place needs to either lock-up the decision making to the people who know what's what (the purported members of the councils) and stop the facade of community contribution, or otherwise move to a data-based framework that doesn't operate on feelings of problems. I'm happy to offer suggestions on how that can be done in the appropriate forum. There are plenty of metrics easily source-able or already existing in the Smogon/stats database.

And finchinator I get your pint, but there's no denying this thread is just dogpiling on "dissent". A problem's only a problem when it's demonstrably so.
To be fair there's not really a facade of community contribution since anyone can vote in the suspect tests to make these decisions. Obviously the people higher up get to ultimately decide what is suspected in the first place, but there is still an extent of community contribution present here too. For example, the OU surveys that have been sent out definitely seem to inform suspect tests to an extent, and anyone can fill those out as well. You have a point in saying that discussions such as this thread may not ultimately contribute a ton to what is suspected/banned. However, don't forget the sole purpose of this specific thread is not just to discuss suspects. Further, even threads such as this one may slightly contribute to the suspect process in the sense that this thread 1) contributes to what's asked in the surveys, 2) allows "the purported members of the councils" to gauge community support for something they are considering, and 3) better informs the opinions of people who could potentially vote in a suspect. Regardless, community contribution and "executive council power" need to be balanced because many people are not well-enough informed to make good decisions and I personally think the OU council has done a good job balancing everything so far this generation and being transparent.
 
There is no value to sourcing input from muppets. No offense to individuals, but this place needs to either lock-up the decision making to the people who know what's what (the purported members of the councils) and stop the facade of community contribution, or otherwise move to a data-based framework that doesn't operate on feelings of problems. I'm happy to offer suggestions on how that can be done in the appropriate forum. There are plenty of metrics easily source-able or already existing in the Smogon/stats database.

And finchinator I get your pint, but there's no denying this thread is just dogpiling on "dissent". A problem's only a problem when it's demonstrably so.
Apologies to the mods if I'm just feeding a troll, but I'm genuinely curious as to what a "data-based framework" looks like to you. Smogon & PS do compile a bunch of data, but I'm don't see what easily lends itself to an objective measure of brokeness or uncompetitiveness
 
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Red Raven

I COULD BE BANNED!
With the metagame at the moment, I'm not a huge fan of it. To be honest, I find this generation as a whole to be the worst mechanically, although I am only gonna count six to eight since those are the only ones I've played. I play this gen mainly because I like the new moves the mons got but most of the time, I keep appreciating gen seven in a new light

If I had to describe the metagame in one word, it would have to be suffocating. There are just too many offensive threats to cover and for me, the best way to deal with them is to pivot around them rather than hard wall them. This comes at the risk as if you're not using a regenerator mon, you could end up dying to the mon you want to pivot around

Earlier I mentioned that I find this gen to have the worst mechanics. I'll start with teleport. This one move just greatly accentuates the offensive threats in the metagame because they are guaranteed not to take damage. The slowtwins might be the only ones that can fully abuse them but it does not change the fact that the precise positioning somewhat exaggerates the offensive threat. If that wasn't enough, there's boots. Dealing with guys like Rillaboom, Heatran, Garchomp and especially Dragapult is already strenuous enough but when you add in Dragonite, Volcarona and Weavile not being hindered whenever they get a free switch, it can be quite oppressive. This is why I find this metagame to be suffocating. These boots using mons are very annoying and it makes the switch moves too oppressive since the only thing you can really do is hope that the other guy uses u turn against your tank Garchomp. I can't even agree on the whole notion of 'oh that's easy. Just click knock off' because like, do you honestly believe that you will be able to remove the boots from these mons on a consistent basis?

When you have a mon that can just ignore hazard damage while its answers take them, it becomes suffocating eventually. That's why I just rage quit whenever I battle someone with more than two boots mons. I once said that Cinderace was wrongfully banned and that boots is what pushed it over the edge. Well, now we have a cult of mons dedicated to being as suffocating as Cinderace was. Also, let's not forget the clusterfuck to end all clusterfucks, dynamax. I mean, who's brilliant idea was it to merge z moves and megas into one mechanic?

At this point, I think the mechanics is what gives off the vibe that the tier is difficult to build in. The four I mentioned are just the tier's apex predators and that's not mentioning the other predators beneath them. The offensive power creep was a bit too much in this gen and not enough defensive mons were introduced. I mean we're still using the old guys for most of our backbone. Combine the lack of new defensive mons and the new mechanics, it really makes the tier difficult. With this in mind, I really don't think any of the pokemon are broken

That's what I think about the current metagame anyway
 
All these wanna-be game designers taking about "the problems"...

If you think OU is too high in power level, then play UU or a lower tier.

Maybe fill this thread with "solutions" instead of just asking to ban everything. :psywoke:
your opinions is looks like similar to koreans opinions to me.

they don't like a OU's ban policy. so, almost korean 6v6 players not playing a OU. and they apply a nintendo official Battle Stadium rules to 6v6.

but, official 6v6 is only AG.

all 6v6s except AG are artificial, unofficial.

smogon discussing a ban? who cares? official 6v6 is not exist except AG.
 
Red Raven thats a nice read, lol

But chiming in to say that I'm super happy with this metagame, much more fun than previous ones. The biggest reason why is it feels like almost everything is viable (even tho some of my favourites like sceptile are clearly not) and it also feels like games just have a nice rhythm to them. Tagging Mimikyu Stardust who hit 1900 with a Raboot.

  • It doesn't feel like trying to butt up against a brick wall when against stall, because there are good breaking options
  • It doesn't feel like you need to run certain defensive pokemon trios, just defensive types (teams need a ground, flying/levitating and steel type generally). To be fair I look forward to the day when you can get away with not having any of ground/flying/steel on your team. In the meantime good luck getting past 1800 without at least 2 of the 3 :(
  • There is no spammable move, except magma storm, that terrifies me about how annoying it is. The STAB pyro ball / gunkshot / HJK trifecta was the last time it was annoying trying to find something to switch into spammable moves
  • It doesn't feel like there are only specific OU breakers, tho to be fair there are still only a small list of viable OU wincons, that can reliably perform
If this comes at the cost of regenerator spam, so be it. I blame GF for giving toxapex knock off with the rest of its movepool, lol.

If running pokemon that previously were made unviable due to stealth rocks comes at the cost of making others broken/overbearing, so be it, they can be banned.

Everything comes with a cost

And perspective can be different for many!
 
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:ss/heliolisk:
Since there was some talk about sun lately, did anybody perhaps try using solar power heliolisk on such teams?
It does seem to have some merits which could theoretically give it a small niche on such teams. These merits are:
1. a relatively decent speed tier which lets it outspeed things like volc,chomp,lele,victini, tie with kartana...
2. good hitting power with specs+solar power
3. a strong STAB pivot move in volt switch letting it both get momentum and a decently nice chunk of damage in
4. pretty good coverage with solar beam(or grass knot for hippo), weather ball, focus blast,hyper voice,dragon pulse(for chomp) making ground types not that safe to switch in
5. this is an overlooked one, but its normal type is kinda useful, since sun struggles with pult, it means specs cannot just bowl over your team with locked shadow ball once you are weakened, letting you get good tempo and/or damage after a KO(basically doing some RKing on it)

from my personal experience(and sun is not my forte so take it with a grain of salt): in actual games it performed kinda okayishly; it wasnt amazing on a game to game basis, but it could hand in some respectable performances.

I guess the question is: did anybody else try it(or is willing to try), to share some experiences?
 
Heliolisk gets absolutely destroyed by dragapult, walled by most ground types and is very prediction reliant if you are using choice specs since otherwise it is to weak and life orb wears it down very quickly. There are much better electric types to use like zeraora or tapu koko since this just lacks defences to check dragapult. Stuff like hippo can come in and switch the weather, or using stuff like landorus-t, garchomp, and can make 50/50 and it cannot even ohko even in sun. I would not advise using heliolisk since venusaur is better speed control
 
:ss/heliolisk:
Since there was some talk about sun lately, did anybody perhaps try using solar power heliolisk on such teams?
It does seem to have some merits which could theoretically give it a small niche on such teams. These merits are:
1. a relatively decent speed tier which lets it outspeed things like volc,chomp,lele,victini, tie with kartana...
2. good hitting power with specs+solar power
3. a strong STAB pivot move in volt switch letting it both get momentum and a decently nice chunk of damage in
4. pretty good coverage with solar beam(or grass knot for hippo), weather ball, focus blast,hyper voice,dragon pulse(for chomp) making ground types not that safe to switch in
5. this is an overlooked one, but its normal type is kinda useful, since sun struggles with pult, it means specs cannot just bowl over your team with locked shadow ball once you are weakened, letting you get good tempo and/or damage after a KO

from my personal experience(and sun is not my forte so take it with a grain of salt): in actual games it performed kinda okayishly; it wasnt amazing on a game to game basis, but it could hand in some respectable performances.

I guess the question is: did anybody else try it(or is willing to try), to share some experiences?
Gave it a spin a while back; turns out that everything it does, other breakers like Tini/Tran/Darm/Zard do better (with the exception of Volt Switch). It is undoubtedly cool and I'm sure that a Sun squad built specifically around it would see some success, but if you're just slapping it onto a sun team as a breaker, the damage output just isn't... How should I put it... Nuclear enough to justify its frailty and only slightly above-average speed. Not getting any natural boosts on its STABs from Sun hurts its prospects...

To demonstrate,
252 SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Heliolisk Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar in Sun: 139-165 (35.2 - 41.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Heliolisk Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 56+ SpD Clefable in Sun: 273-322 (69.2 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Definitely not bad in terms of damage output, but given how much residual damage you'll be taking from Solar Power, Rocks, etc plus the susceptibility to revenge killing, you'd rather be picking up OHKOes with Specs Tran Eruption or repeatedly dropping V-creates from the much more reliable Victini. Heliolisk just doesn't bring enough power or utility compared to its potential Sun-abusing teammates.
 
Lmao!

Specs dragapults shadow ball is at least a locked in move and despite being strong enough to win games, it’s not strong enough that you can’t take advantage of the locked in aspect. Tho agree it’s a top threat!

The difference is with 3x STAB 120+ base power moves and really good coverage, is that you had to be able to come in on a threat that can just switch to a new high base power move... or then u turn out (or carry zen headbutt if you have pex). And high incidence of poison from gunk shot meant sometimes those switch ins could be 2hkoed!

the difference with magmastorm is it traps you, obviously..
 
:ss/heliolisk:
Since there was some talk about sun lately, did anybody perhaps try using solar power heliolisk on such teams?
It does seem to have some merits which could theoretically give it a small niche on such teams. These merits are:
1. a relatively decent speed tier which lets it outspeed things like volc,chomp,lele,victini, tie with kartana...
2. good hitting power with specs+solar power
3. a strong STAB pivot move in volt switch letting it both get momentum and a decently nice chunk of damage in
4. pretty good coverage with solar beam(or grass knot for hippo), weather ball, focus blast,hyper voice,dragon pulse(for chomp) making ground types not that safe to switch in
5. this is an overlooked one, but its normal type is kinda useful, since sun struggles with pult, it means specs cannot just bowl over your team with locked shadow ball once you are weakened, letting you get good tempo and/or damage after a KO(basically doing some RKing on it)

from my personal experience(and sun is not my forte so take it with a grain of salt): in actual games it performed kinda okayishly; it wasnt amazing on a game to game basis, but it could hand in some respectable performances.

I guess the question is: did anybody else try it(or is willing to try), to share some experiences?
I tried out assault vest Heliolisk with dry skin on a rain team as a Pult check and it wasn’t awful. AV lets it check a decent amount of special attackers since a base 94 sp def isn’t frail and rain gives it recovery. I used a set of Thunder/Volt Switch/Weather Ball/Focus Blast and it performed decently well since it has reasonable speed, power, special bulk, and two immunities. I didn’t use it enough to comment any further, but if you really want to try Heliolisk in OU that set’s worth looking into.
 
Hi! Nice to meet you all!



I’m here to talk about my thoughts about the current meta in OU currently, and why I believe that some of us might be frustrated on some things that are present on it.

Gen 8 introduced us to a lot of new things, with some of them being broken from the getgo (Dynamax being the most outrageous example). A few things are kinda cool conceptually and do give us a breath of fresh air into the meta - namely the new Teleport mechanic from Let’s Go and Heavy Duty Boots.

These, coupled with other things (namely Future Sight), end up creating a whole new experience that feels like it negates possible outcomes related to counteplay of some gameplay elements. And I will talk about how Heavy Duty Boots, Teleport and Future Sight did that, in my personal view:



Heavy Duty Boots:

VoltTurn teams are not new, being present ever since Gen 5. It is a healthy and valid playstyle that forces you to be proactive if you want to swing momentum back to your side.

One of the common weakness to teams that rely to VoltTurn entirely was entry hazards, especially hazard stacking. You could punish the switch ins via hazards and heavily pressure the spinner/defogger once you laid your Stealth Rock and/or Spikes. However:

Heavy Duty Boots negates this aspect somewhat. The risk of using VoltTurn is lessened, since a good deal of Pokémon that partake in VoltTurn teams have Heavy Duty Boots as their item of choice.


(relevant) Volt Switch users in OU:
Tapu Koko, Zeraora, Magnezone, Zapdos.


Of these, three of them have Heavy Duty Boots as their prime item of choice. Rotom-H is the only one not in OU by usage that, if used, will favor Heavy Duty Boots most of the time while having Volt Switch in its moveset.


(relevant) U-Turn users in OU:
Tapu Koko, Dragapult, Corviknight, Landorus-T, Tornadus-T, Rillaboom, Urshifu-RS, Zapdos-G, Scizor, Victini


Here we have a more varied pool of Pokémon. Not all of them run Heavy Duty Boots, though.

Corviknight doesn’t need it since it acts as a Defogger and uses U Turn after doing standard Corviknight things to gain a little momentum. Rillaboom negates a bit of hazard damage via Grass Terrain, Urshifu-S resists Stealth Rock.

Zapdos-G and Dragapult are still mostly used with their Choice items of choice, but Heavy Duty Boots on them are getting popular, due on how easily they force switchs and keep momentum to their side. Landorus-T is not a Heavy Duty Boots user, almost always using Leftovers if bulky, or another item if suicide lead or Swords Dance.
Tapu Koko, Scizor, Victini and Tornadus-T are the ones that will most likely have Heavy Duty Boots as their items.


Other (relevant) Heavy Duty Boots users in OU:
Blissey, Kyurem, Volcarona, Dragonite, Mandibuzz, Slowbro/Slowking, Buzzwole, Weavile


Outside Buzzwole, who uses Leftovers/Rocky Helmet as item choices in equal viability, and Kyurem, who can also rip apart teams with Choice Specs most of the time, all of them favor Heavy Duty Boots as an item choice due to it negating some of their major weakness.

Blissey is used do stomach special hits and Teleport afterwards, swinging momentum back to its team. Same with Slowbro/Slowking, but better, because of Regenerator (and Future Sight).

Mandibuzz is a Defogger. Volcarona now does not give a damn about Stealth Rock and can come and go as it pleases to set up in your face. Same with Dragonite, keeping its Multiscale intact is way easier than before.

Weavile is a powerhouse that can also come and go without any drawbacks at all, especially if you slow pivot it via Teleport/VoltTurn. You enter safely regardless of Stealth Rock being present, and either you setup a Swords Dance or heavily damage/kill the switch in. With Future Sight in play, it is even easier (more on that later).


Is Heavy Duty Boots a broken item?


If we analyze Heavy Duty Boots by itself, without taking other things into consideration, most likely not.
It may be something that makes VoltTurn teams even better (which I agree wholeheartedly) because it negates the entry hazard weakness that such teams do have.

However, as annoying it may be facing a VoltTurn team with +2 Heavy Duty Boots user (especially the fatter you are), the game is far from decided at the team preview. You don’t autolose because you saw that your opponent has Tapu Koko+Zeraora, for example (unless your team is directly weak to them). If you play a fatter team, it just takes (way) longer to make progress.

The biggest deal is, however, the fact that Heavy Duty Boots negate a significant weakness on strong Pokémon (Volcarona, Weavile, Dragonite), making using them almost low risk, with their usual good reward. You can ignore hazards most of the time if you have their Heavy Duty Boots intact.



Teleport:

Let’s Go brought to us a welcome change in Teleport, acting like a dry pass. Its distributcion is way more restricted than Baton pass, however.

Regarding the Pokémon that do learn it, Teleport brings their usability to a level unimaginable before Gen 8/Gen7Let's Go - due enabling them to swing momentum to their side.


(relevant) Teleport users in OU:
Clefable, Slowbro, Slowking, Blissey, Magnezone.


Teleport Magnezone is a niche option on some sets that work well if your team supports it.

Clefable not only can use Teleport for momentum, but also to safely recover a teammate via Wish.
Blissey is something that no one imagined that would gain traction, but here we are.

Blissey is now a staple outside stall teams, and for good reason. You enter into something that you can take a hit, and you most likely Teleport to bring momentum back to your side. And Chansey/Blissey were the premier Pokémon known as the momentum sink. Heavy Duty Boots, of course, is a huge factor for this - enabling Blissey to repeteaedly ignore hazards. While Chansey is still a better pink blob due her higher tankiness, Blissey is now popular and more effective because it now brings momentum instead of losing it in a switch in, plus ignoring hazards, making it a better general fit to the metagame.

Slowbro and Slowking... I’ll talk more about them below when adressing Future Sight.



Is Teleport a broken move?


In my opinion, no. It is like U Turn, but for fatter Pokémon in general. What makes it a little bit obnoxious, however, is Teleport when coupled with other things, namely... Future Sight and/or Regenerator (which only Slowbro and Slowking can both learn).



Future Sight:

And we have Future Sight.
I do believe that Future Sight, of all of the elements of the current metagame, is the one that, at the very minimum, is kinda unfun to be on the receiving end.

Why?

Because it negates some portion of counterplay, especially switch ins to a check/counter. So you have something to stomach a hit from a Rillaboom and threaten it out? Either you’ll take Future Sight damage, being either KOd by it + being hit by the opposing Pokémon, or being heavily damaged - thus unable to come for a second time, unless you sac something else.

Future Sight was a 120 base power move since Gen 6. No one paid attention to it, despite being a somewhat cheesy move. What makes Future Sight a threat now?

Future Sight being “discovered” is a likely byproduct of Heavy Duty Boots being introduced.
Remember: Heavy Duty Boots negates hazard damage, one common way to do chip damage against the opponent, and keeping dangerous Pokémon at bay. In a need of being able to do some chip damage, Future Sight came and fulfilled that part.

And that’s where Slowbro/Slowking shines. They are the premium Future Sight users for a good number of reasons:

Slowbro/Slowking both have Regenerator, plus Heavy Duty Boots, making the process almost risk-free. They enter, use Future Sight, Teleport out while recovering some of the damage taken in the process.
While they are not the only Pokémon that can use Future Sight, they're the premium users due on how easy is to pilot them


Future Sight becomes even more scary when you construct solid cores based solely on that.
It is especially deadly on offensive Dark and Fighting types, since Future Sight will either hit for super-effective on their most common answers or you’ll hit them for super-effective damage if they send a Psychic/Dark/Steel to take the Future Sight hit.

And, of course, VoltTurn users. You can simply retreat, chipping them down without much risky.

Good Future Sight cores are really scary for these factors. For example, let's take some common Urshifu-RS answers that can actually switch on it:
Paired with Future Sight support, Toxapex, Kommo-o and Buzzwole are KOed if they switch in. Tangrowh is also KOed if chipped a bit prior or if U-Turn is used. Tapu Fini is heavily damaged and lacks reliable recovery, so it can't really switch more than once.

And it is not the only case. You can pretty much support every Pokémon with Future Sight to good results.



Is Future Sight a broken move?



I really do not know. Most likely no. At least, by itself.

What I know, at least, is that Future Sight is one the the things that can really dictate a match if played well. Especially when paired with some Pokémon that used Future Sight to KO its checks/counters.

And, like I pointed above, we have the holy combo of Heavy Duty Boots + Regenerator + Teleport, on Slowbro/Slowking. that makes clicking Future Sight almost risk-free with decent payoff at very worst, and winning you the game at the very best.

While there’s zero urgency at the moment regarding anything (which is a good thing!), I do believe that, at the very minimum, we can analyze these points to actually know and understand the beast that is the Gen 8 metagame, and how different it is compared to the previous ones. I also trust the OU Council to make the right call if there is need for one.


Sorry for the long ass wall of text. I just wanted to share my views about what I believe to be a very interesting metagame, despite its flaws.



Thank you! :heart:
 
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Aberforth

is a Top Social Media Contributoris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Ubers Leader
Personal take: Future sight is absolutely hot garbage unless its being used by one of the slowmons, and even then I'd be inclined to say its only really on the Kantonian ones that its even potentially a problem. There's a good reason why you dont see Tapu Lele using Future Sight very often (WCOP Usage stats saying it's used the move in two games out of 43, and won neither), despite it being the strongest user of the move, even compared to Calyrex-SR and Mewtwo. Similarly Doom Desire Jirachi has not lit the world on fire, in spite of it offering an even stronger move, with no immunities, and with U-Turn and Wish Support.

The momentum sink of the move doesnt make it balanced, it makes it outright a bad option on almost every pokemon that can learn it imo. The ability to heal off the damage you take setting up the Future Sight is outright necessary to make it an effective long term gameplan, because otherwise the move gets used once, a pokemon is killed and the move cannot be reliably used again, and if the mon gets killed then it really should be chosen such that the rest of the team doesnt collapse after it dies.

If there is action to be taken on FuturePort teams with HDB, it should (imo) be on the only things that actually enable the structure in question, aka Slowking (and Bro). They have the best combination of traits to enable the structure to work, and replacing them with other Future Sight users, even with HDB, will not get anywhere close to the same success. It might seem weird to think that the Slow Twins are broken, but if you genuinely think that Future Sight VolTurnPort teams are broken, then that's the only real conclusion in my mind. Nothing else can offer the same level of team support, longevity and momentum that those team styles kind of rely on.
 
Hi! Nice to meet you all!


Heavy Duty Boots:

VoltTurn teams are not new, being present ever since Gen 5. It is a healthy and valid playstyle that forces you to be proactive if you want to swing momentum back to your side.

One of the common weakness to teams that rely to VoltTurn entirely was entry hazards, especially hazard stacking. You could punish the switch ins via hazards and heavily pressure the spinner/defogger once you laid your Stealth Rock and/or Spikes. However:

Heavy Duty Boots negates this aspect somewhat. The risk of using VoltTurn is lessened, since a good deal of Pokémon that partake in VoltTurn teams have Heavy Duty Boots as their item of choice.


(relevant) Volt Switch users in OU:
Tapu Koko, Zeraora, Magnezone, Zapdos.


Of these, three of them have Heavy Duty Boots as their prime item of choice. Rotom-H is the only one not in OU by usage that, if used, will favor Heavy Duty Boots most of the time while having Volt Switch in its moveset.
I disagree with this idea I see a lot that Heavy Duty Boots are objectively good for voltturn. While they do help you not worry about hazards, an important way voltturn teams get damage is by racking up hazard damage on opponents. And since their opponents can often ignore that, switching around voltturn becomes much more free and forces the voltturn user to actually attack. This is most noticeable with Blissey, who can eat any volt switch and most weaker U-turns, and Tport out to beat your switch move.
 
You know, I think it’s important to mention also that while Slowking is still very good, the metagame has definitely been adapting to it, or at least there have been certain trends that it tends to struggle with like Weavile and Urshifu. Granted, I know that the controversy surrounding Slowking, (and Slowbro to a lesser extent), is the consistency in the support they provide and not their ability to defensively 1v1 large portions of the metagame like Toxapex, but I think it can’t be denied that the more hostile the metagame is offensively to the Slowtwins, the harder it is for them to consistently pivot in and out multiple times a game, which in turn lessens the overall effectiveness of their support. I’ve always been iffy on the idea that any kind of action needs to be taken here to begin with, but given certain metagame trends, I’m even less sure that they’re actually a “problem” so much as just a very consistent new form of support that teams should be accounting for. Of course, it’s entirely possible that the metagame will shift again in a way that benefits the Slowtwins. I guess what I’m trying to say here is that given current metagame trends, I think that talk of a suspect seems a bit unnecessary as of right now, and instead, I think further observation as to whether the Slowtwins either bounce back or still prove to be “problematic” in a more openly hostile metagame towards them is warranted.
 
So a little off-kilter, but I've been having a lot of fun with this Blaziken set lately (still workshopping the moveset a little)


Blaziken @ Leftovers
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Knock Off
- Bounce
- High Jump Kick​

Natural 80 / 70 special bulk fully invested is 364 / 262, which is not bad at all and can easily survive hits that normal offensive variants cannot take properly. The key that makes this kind of set work is access to Bulk Up and Speed Boost, allowing Blaziken to acquire boosts, passively recover health and snowball out of control with near-perfect coverage in HJK, Knock Off, and Bounce.

Bounce has been more helpful here instead of Fire STAB throughout my testing because it allows Blaziken to extend Leftovers recovery while still hitting most of the same things that Blaziken's fire coverage does. Bounce also has a high paralysis chance and allows Blaziken to hit Fighting-types super effectively. In this metagame, Blaziken's Fire coverage isn't exactly necessary other than for additional STAB power.

Fire hits the following types super effectively - Grass, Ice, Steel, and Bug.
Flying hits the following types super effectively - Grass, Fighting, Bug

STAB High Jump Kick nails Ice and Steel super effectively anyways. Also, Fire as an attacking type is way more limited than Flying.

You're probably wondering, "Blaziken gets Brave Bird, why not that instead of Bounce?" Recoil damage, that simple. Bounce being a two-turn move obviously requires more prediction, but the benefits of extra Leftovers recovery, the paralysis chance, and Speed Boost stacking up, even more, cannot be understated.

This is a very utility-heavy Blaziken and appreciates things like hazards and Wish support, but honestly, it can work quite well! Being a setup physical attacker completely immune to burns is also a huge bonus for it.
 
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So a little off-kilter, but I've been having a lot of fun with this Blaziken set lately (still workshopping the moveset a little)


Blaziken @ Leftovers
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Knock Off
- Bounce
- High Jump Kick​

Natural 80 / 70 special bulk fully invested is 364 / 262, which is not bad at all and can easily survive hits that normal offensive variants cannot take properly. The key that makes this kind of set work is access to Bulk Up and Speed Boost, allowing Blaziken to acquire boosts, passively recover health and snowball out of control with near-perfect coverage in HJK, Knock Off, and Bounce.

Bounce has been more helpful here instead of Fire STAB throughout my testing because it allows Blaziken to extend Leftovers recovery while still hitting most of the same things that Blaziken's fire coverage does. Bounce also has a high paralysis chance and allows Blaziken to hit Fighting-types super effectively. In this metagame, Blaziken's Fire coverage isn't exactly necessary other than for additional STAB power.

Fire hits the following types super effectively - Grass, Ice, Steel, and Bug.
Flying hits the following types super effectively - Grass, Fighting, Bug

STAB High Jump Kick nails Ice and Steel super effectively anyways. Also, Fire as an attacking type is way more limited than Flying.

You're probably wondering, "Blaziken gets Brave Bird, why not that instead of Bounce?" Recoil damage, that simple. Bounce being a two-turn move obviously requires more prediction, but the benefits of extra Leftovers recovery, the paralysis chance, and Speed Boost stacking up, even more, cannot be understated.

This is a very utility-heavy Blaziken and appreciates things like hazards and Wish support, but honestly, it can work quite well! Being a setup physical attacker completely immune to burns is also a huge bonus for it.
I think the most optimized way to use blaziken is still inside dual screen plus swords dance, it is perfect to break walls that otherwise would make your team hard to deal with, I think trying to make it live longer will never work in this meta where we have so many things that triggers its move slot syndrome, i mean thunderpunch for pex/fini/mandi, or knock off for nite/pult. Blaziken just has bad defenses and will die before getting chance to setup bulk up twice (the amount that will make it resist 2ko from aqua jet).

Let's see some calcs in your bulk up set:
Urshifu VS blaziken:
252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Aqua Jet vs. +1 252 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 176-210 (48.3 - 57.6%) -- 50.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 0 Atk Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: 244-288 (71.5 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

(Urshifu will never stay in front of bounce, so this scenario is out of question)
Yeah it looks fun but a bit risky since its still 50/50 for urshifu

Blaziken VS pex:
+2 252 Atk Blaziken Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 107-126 (35.1 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Toxapex Scald vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Blaziken: 102-122 (33.8 - 40.5%) -- 45.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Althrough the scenario is favorable to blaziken on calcs, pex will haze and recover before blaziken can deal a better hit(weaker without item), making it die faster to scald.

And well man... bounce just doesnt work, I can't see a single situation someone can be cornered by bounce in this set, just look how people prefer use special pult because phantom force is subpar (even when having protect bypassing and huge bp). And bounce has low bp and no stab, it wont help blaziken at all. Two turn moves are still hard to find a use.

But mad props for you in giving up one of its stab, actually ive been thinking too that blaziken stabs doent really slaps too well and maybe giving up one of them can be a lot better for coverage the common mons that switch in. Blaziken definitively can be very useful, but it still depends a lot on its team for be really useful.

Seeing blaziken usable and perfectly balanced in OU tier (and sometimes even subpar) makes me wonder the tiering decisions in XY era when megas were running wild, there was no z moves, most of its counters that exist today already existed and still normal blaziken was banned...
 
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