Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion (Usage stats in post #944)

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p2

Banned deucer.
I think its far too early to jump to any conclusions on what should be suspected, you've got the powerhouses like Darm and Water fossil guy but we've not had any time to look at them in a non Dynamax meta yet, the meta is still new and I don't think they are completely outright broken to the point where it demands an immediate look at them. I think these fast strong as hell breakers are pretty welcome in the tier anyway fwiw, Darm works very nicely for offensive pressure vs Hatterene because that mon is very annoying. See how it goes in a few weeks, but I wouldnt expect anything to be leaving soon
 
Has trick room in this OU been discussed at all? With G-Max Hatterene and Copperajah, along with great setters from last gen like Reuniclus and new ones like Runerigus, I think Trick Room is going to end up being pretty viable. I've been using an offensive trick room team with a runerigus lead and sweepers like Crawdaunt, Reuniclus and Sirfetch'd and it's been going pretty good.

Also, sleep talk Dubwool is an excellent late game cleaner with cotton guard and body press. Get rid of the ghost types and you're set. I'm thinking it'll stay in UU though or rot in UUBL, I'm not sure.
Trick Room definitely has potential but is hampered by Dracovish and Darm pretty badly because you have to take a hit from mons that OHKO nearly the entire tier in order to setup TR. In Gen 7 trick room was extremely underrated and actually good enough to reach the top of the ladder but now we lost Mawile, Magearna, and Cresselia and have to deal with rain boosted 170 BP banded fiscious rend. Runerigus is just not good. If your opponent leads Dracovish or Darm you just lose a pokemon or maybe trade one pokemon just for TR. If you run sash Runerigus you get taunted. I haven't had much luck with reuniclus as it gets roost stalled by mandibuzz. Sirfetch'd sounds really good though.

With that said, there are three options anyone running trick room should try. The first is sash hatterene lead with TR / Dazzling Gleam / Psychic / Mystical Fire. With magic bounce and focus sash, you are near guaranteed setup and can usually prevent hazards from going up sans mold breaker excadrill leading against you. EVs and moveset are straight forward. The second option is Mimikyu. It's like the ditto of trick room, allowing you to tank a hit and get up trick room to stop you from being swept by almost anything. SD isn't that good on TR mimikyu and destiny bond does NOT seem to work against dmax. So I'd run either taunt, wood hammer, or shadow sneak for its last move. The last option to try is Cofagrigious:

563.png

@ Life Orb
Quiet Nature
168 HP / 72 Def / 252 SpA / 16 SpDef
- Trick Room
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Body Press

Cofag has amazing bulk to set up on physical attackers. Additionally, body press is fantastic here since it works off of your ~145 defense stat allowing you to OHKO dark types like tyranitar, and bisharp as well as excadrill and darm. Hydreigon takes a ton too, around 80%. 72 Def boosts your defenses and body press' power at the same time which is cool. It needs LO for power, it is too weak otherwise.
 
With the talk about suspect testing G-Darmanitan and Dracovish. I would like to bring up Dragapult.

I know that the Sub-Disable set is considered its most popular set right now. But Choice Item sets pokemon that can consistently revenge kill either of them, but even depends on what choice item it holds

With Choice Scarf it can still outspeed Scarfed G-Darm and kill it after Rocks and/or recoil damage.

It can nautrally outspeed even Scarfed Dracovish but it may need to run Specs to OHKO even with rocks damage, unlees you give it Draco Meteor. Dragon Darts can maybe do it on mixed or physical sets

I dont know the numbers on this but ypu can build a Dragapult that can possibly take both G-Darm and Dracovish and all their common builds down even if it cannot relaiably switch into either of them
 
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Trick Room definitely has potential but is hampered by Dracovish and Darm pretty badly because you have to take a hit from mons that OHKO nearly the entire tier in order to setup TR. In Gen 7 trick room was extremely underrated and actually good enough to reach the top of the ladder but now we lost Mawile, Magearna, and Cresselia and have to deal with rain boosted 170 BP banded fiscious rend. Runerigus is just not good. If your opponent leads Dracovish or Darm you just lose a pokemon or maybe trade one pokemon just for TR. If you run sash Runerigus you get taunted. I haven't had much luck with reuniclus as it gets roost stalled by mandibuzz. Sirfetch'd sounds really good though.

With that said, there are three options anyone running trick room should try. The first is sash hatterene lead with TR / Dazzling Gleam / Psychic / Mystical Fire. With magic bounce and focus sash, you are near guaranteed setup and can usually prevent hazards from going up sans mold breaker excadrill leading against you. EVs and moveset are straight forward. The second option is Mimikyu. It's like the ditto of trick room, allowing you to tank a hit and get up trick room to stop you from being swept by almost anything. SD isn't that good on TR mimikyu and destiny bond does NOT seem to work against dmax. So I'd run either taunt, wood hammer, or shadow sneak for its last move. The last option to try is Cofagrigious:

View attachment 211467
@ Life Orb
Quiet Nature
168 HP / 72 Def / 252 SpA / 16 SpDef
- Trick Room
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Body Press

Cofag has amazing bulk to set up on physical attackers. Additionally, body press is fantastic here since it works off of your ~145 defense stat allowing you to OHKO dark types like tyranitar, and bisharp as well as excadrill and darm. Hydreigon takes a ton too, around 80%. 72 Def boosts your defenses and body press' power at the same time which is cool. It needs LO for power, it is too weak otherwise.
My big issue with TR this Gen is that dexit really hurts it. Gen 8 has a lot of new abusers (like almost every gen 8 pokemon is ridiculously slow) so that felt really promising. But when team building, you run into the realisation that every pokemon just kinda loses to Dark/Ghost types since they all have the same typing. Whilst this was an issue in Gen 7 too (eg. most standard TR teams had a big ground weakness), you at least had Cresselia/Uxie that was super bulky and could set up TR fairly often. Gen 8 really shallowed the pool of pokemon that actually learn TR and that list becomes ultra small if you try and filter out psychic and ghost types. By ultra small, it's literally just a handful of pokemon. I found it really hard to create any sort of "bulky core" that could offer any type synergy and provide reliable switch ins to set up TR. If you're on the back foot, the lengths required just to set up TR makes it not really worth it for an effect that doesn't last very long.

A lot of great new abusers but it's just so hard to actually put them together into a decent team, whilst being pigeonholed into using a very limited selection of TR setters.
 
My big issue with TR this Gen is that dexit really hurts it. Gen 8 has a lot of new abusers (like almost every gen 8 pokemon is ridiculously slow) so that felt really promising. But when team building, you run into the realisation that every pokemon just kinda loses to Dark/Ghost types since they all have the same typing. Whilst this was an issue in Gen 7 too (eg. most standard TR teams had a big ground weakness), you at least had Cresselia/Uxie that was super bulky and could set up TR fairly often. Gen 8 really shallowed the pool of pokemon that actually learn TR and that list becomes ultra small if you try and filter out psychic and ghost types. By ultra small, it's literally just a handful of pokemon. I found it really hard to create any sort of "bulky core" that could offer any type synergy and provide reliable switch ins to set up TR. If you're on the back foot, the lengths required just to set up TR makes it not really worth it for an effect that doesn't last very long.

A lot of great new abusers but it's just so hard to actually put them together into a decent team, whilst being pigeonholed into using a very limited selection of TR setters.
Yea, it's difficult and very restraining to have TR setters form a core with any decent synergy. I've tried Aromatisse since it's a slow fairy for the dark resist, can be a decent pivot into ghost moves and can wish pass, but it's pretty weak overall. Maybe something like a Jellicent / Aromatisse core could work at keeping threats at bay while setting up TR reliably. But overall I'd say it looks like Gen 8 TR has to be played more like HO than having good pivots and cores.
 
Hi.. I wanna talk about Terrain in gen 8.
Terrain really started to be a thing in gen 7 thanks to the Tapus, wich all doesnt pass dexit cut.
In gen 8 we have another setter for each terrain:
Grassy Terrain: Tapu Bulu --> Rillaboom (his hidden ability saidly blocked until a future event)

Rillaboom_EpEc.png

Electric Terrain: Tapu Koko --> Pincurchin
Pincurchin_EpEc.png

Misty Terrain: Tapu Fini --> Galarian-Weezing
Weezing_de_Galar_EpEc.png
Psychic Terrain: Tapu Lele --> Indeedee

Indeedee.png
Each terrain has his effect, like Psychic blocking priority and Grassy working like Leftovers, but i really want to remark the 2 nerf of the terrain in Gen 8:
1) The damage increase is only 30% (same as Life Orb). In Gen 7 the boost was 50%.
2) Defog now remove terrain.

I think only Rillaboon and Indeedee-M will be offensive abuser of this terrain, instead, Pincurchin, G-Weezing and Indeedee-F being most a support in this reggard.

EDIT: Electric, Pyschic, Grass and Fairy max moves set terrain, but i post this bc dynamax is gonna be ban...
 
Hi.. I wanna talk about Terrain in gen 8.
Terrain really started to be a thing in gen 7 thanks to the Tapus, wich all doesnt pass dexit cut.
In gen 8 we have another setter for each terrain:
Grassy Terrain: Tapu Bulu --> Rillaboom (his hidden ability saidly blocked until a future event)

View attachment 211526

Electric Terrain: Tapu Koko --> Pincurchin
View attachment 211525

Misty Terrain: Tapu Fini --> Galarian-Weezing
View attachment 211527
Psychic Terrain: Tapu Lele --> Indeedee

View attachment 211524
Each terrain has his effect, like Psychic blocking priority and Grassy working like Leftovers, but i really want to remark the 2 nerf of the terrain in Gen 8:
1) The damage increase is only 30% (same as Life Orb). In Gen 7 the boost was 50%.
2) Defog now remove terrain.

I think only Rillaboon and Indeedee-M will be offensive abuser of this terrain, instead, Pincurchin, G-Weezing and Indeedee-F being most a support in this reggard.

EDIT: Electric, Pyschic, Grass and Fairy max moves set terrain, but i post this bc dynamax is gonna be ban...
I think the dynaban is going to hurt terrain teams a lot because some Pokémon like Pinchurchin and G-Weezing are very readily countered because of their typing, speed and or bulk. They won’t be able to stay around long enough to continually set terrain. Especially losing Pokémon like g-max Hatterene that set some terrains brilliantly.

I do think grassy and fairy have a good shot at staying around because their setters can likely hang in long enough. Fairy also helps counter the unholy demon himself Dracovish.

Also Defog corviknight.
 
I think the dynaban is going to hurt terrain teams a lot because some Pokémon like Pinchurchin and G-Weezing are very readily countered because of their typing, speed and or bulk. They won’t be able to stay around long enough to continually set terrain. Especially losing Pokémon like g-max Hatterene that set some terrains brilliantly.

I do think grassy and fairy have a good shot at staying around because their setters can likely hang in long enough. Fairy also helps counter the unholy demon himself Dracovish.

Also Defog corviknight.
Indeedee-M has the same speed, less Spa but better coverage as Lele being a good abuser. And Rilla is going to be a OU uppon the ability is realice (good coverage as Knock Off, U-turn), he will find a place in balance team and ground- weak time bc of thedmg red in EQ...
 
I think the dynaban is going to hurt terrain teams a lot because some Pokémon like Pinchurchin and G-Weezing are very readily countered because of their typing, speed and or bulk. They won’t be able to stay around long enough to continually set terrain. Especially losing Pokémon like g-max Hatterene that set some terrains brilliantly.

I do think grassy and fairy have a good shot at staying around because their setters can likely hang in long enough. Fairy also helps counter the unholy demon himself Dracovish.

Also Defog corviknight.
How is dynaban going to hurt Pinchurchin or G-Weezing? If anything, it'll help them stand up to a powerful meta, and you contradict yourself; you said fairy has a good shot of staying around but then you said G-Weezing was readily countered earlier.
Honestly, all the terrain setters are extremely fringe picks, bordering or are unviable. Right now, especially, they're garbage, and Rillaboom and G-Weezing definitely don't have a chance of staying around.
Indeedee would actually be a notch above all the other terrain setters with a decent speed tier plus preventing priority and can hit harder. Pinchurchin... rip
tl;dr indeedee stays everything else jumps in a lake
 

Ruft

Dance first, think later
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Won OST Predictions
How is dynaban going to hurt Pinchurchin or G-Weezing? If anything, it'll help them stand up to a powerful meta,
They said the Dynaban is going to hurt terrain teams, not terrain setters. Terrain teams will be hurt because they will have to rely solely on these terrain setters, which as you said are kind of bad (though I personally do believe Rillaboom will hold a decent position in the metagame once it gets access to Grassy Surge).
 
How is dynaban going to hurt Pinchurchin or G-Weezing? If anything, it'll help them stand up to a powerful meta, and you contradict yourself; you said fairy has a good shot of staying around but then you said G-Weezing was readily countered earlier.
Honestly, all the terrain setters are extremely fringe picks, bordering or are unviable. Right now, especially, they're garbage, and Rillaboom and G-Weezing definitely don't have a chance of staying around.
Indeedee would actually be a notch above all the other terrain setters with a decent speed tier plus preventing priority and can hit harder. Pinchurchin... rip
tl;dr indeedee stays everything else jumps in a lake
I think you're underestimating just how much being able to set something like terrain or weather makes a mon that much better and valuable on a team. Look at Ninetales and Politoed, mons who are in reality, fucking terrible, but were OU in Gen 5 purely based on the fact that they could set weather. Even Pelipper was awful, but it shot up to OU in gen 7 because it sets rain, and it was only really ever good at setting rain (it did it better than Politoed at least). Being able to set terrain gives Pokemon like Pinchurin, Galar-Weezing, Rillaboom and Indedede extra life. It's impossible to say how good they will be in OU without their HAs being released, but I'm fully expecting to see a lot of them once they are released, especially Rillaboom, who actually looks like a somewhat decent setter.
 
Would you actually benefit from making an entire team based around a terrain? I don't really see how that would pan out. Weather has much more useful and plentiful options/abusers that terrain. Doesn't seem like all that would be worth a 30% attack boost when rain and sun give 50%. The only terrain with an actually more useful side benefit is psychic terrain blocking priority.
 
As much as I want to see auto-terrain setters see success in Generation 8 like they did in Generation 7, I feel there's a few things holding the options this generation back from that.

- All of the Tapus had the Fairy typing complimenting their superior stats, and had perfectly tailored movepools for the Generation 7 metagame.
- Generation 8 is far more of a stop gap and nuke the fucking shit out of things type of metagame. Whether it stays this way after the (probable) dynamax ban is completely up for speculation, but it's doubtful that with threats like Dracovish and such running around that it'll switch to favor the same playstyles as Generation 7.

Then there's the problems with the setters themselves:

- G-Weezing has the Fairy typing but that Poison typing hurts it defensively since it can't use Levitate if it wants to set terrain. Also 90 / 85 offensive stats mean it can't really put much pressure on the opposing team.
- Pinchurchin has fantastic coverage (Zing-Zap, Liquidation, Sucker Punch, etc) and a decent 101 attack stat, but that abysmal 15 base speed and horrifyingly low base 48 HP means that it's not going to get much done without Trick Room support. I don't need to tell you why having to have an additional setter for your setter is sketchy if you're building an electric terrain themed team. (For real though, use this thing on Trick Room, it puts in work there).
- Rillaboom looks relatively promising once its ability is unlocked, but there are still issues with it. While it might be worth using its signature move Drum Beating over Wood Hammer (that 100% speed drop really is quite nice), it still has the problem of weird coverage. While it has access to great moves like High Horsepower (Earthquake's BP is reduced by G-Terrain), Darkest Lariat, Knock Off, Drain Punch, etc it misses access to two of the crucial coverage moves that Tapu Bulu abused back in Gen 7 (Rock Slide / Stone Edge). That lack of coverage is a pretty big problem. It'll still most likely be the best of the setters however thanks to the advantages I mentioned along with it being surprisingly fast (who expected this thing to have base 85 speed? Seriously, it's a fucking Gorilla, they're not known for being too fast, just absurdly powerful)
- Indeedee (Male) [Don't use female, it loses SpA and Speed for pointless HP and Def buffs], has the honor of being the only Psychic type to be immune to the rampant ghosts running around OU thanks to its secondary Normal typing. However while 105 / 95 / 95 are great SpA, SpD, Spe stats, it comes off as a slower, weaker Alakazam with that 60 / 55 physical bulk. Probably the second best of the setters but bar access to Mystical Fire its coverage is pretty meh.
 
Dedicated Terrain teams weren't really a thing in Gen 7 either to be fair. It was more that Terrain users formed excellent cores with other Pokemon (such as BuluTran, LeleZam, or KokoLucha), or that your team in general benefitted from a Terrain but wasn't reliant on it. It's not like dedicated weather teams that oftentimes need their weather up to win.

We should also consider the fact that the Tapus were all pretty good Pokemon on their own right, whereas weather setters are garbage by themselves. Nobody is going to slap a Pelipper on their team, but if you want a fast Electric on a Gen 7 OU team, chances are you're putting Koko in that slot regardless of whether your team really benefits from Electric Terrain or not.
 
- Indeedee (Male) [Don't use female, it loses SpA and Speed for pointless HP and Def buffs], has the honor of being the only Psychic type to be immune to the rampant ghosts running around OU thanks to its secondary Normal typing. However while 105 / 95 / 95 are great SpA, SpD, Spe stats, it comes off as a slower, weaker Alakazam with that 60 / 55 physical bulk. Probably the second best of the setters but bar access to Mystical Fire its coverage is pretty meh.
While the loss in power and the only marginal increase in bulk are unfortunate, Female Indeedee has access to Healing Wish, which is a pretty decent reason to prefer it over her Male counterpart.
Not saying that it's better (because it isn't, especially since this isn't a Latios / Latias situation in which the two are great mons with some advantages over each other), but it's definitely an option to consider.
 
On the topic of terrain and weather, I think that rain is a total no skill play style. You get +2 speed and +1 attack on water moves just for sending Pelipper out. (that takes so much skill lmao). Then just bring in whatever sweeper and click the water move.

887.png

Dragapult @ Choice Scarf
Modest Nature
Infiltrator
252 SpA / 4 SpDef / 252 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- U-Turn
- Thunder / Thunderbolt
- Fire Blast

Scarfpult is a great anti-rain option. You outspeed Seismitoad, Drednaw and Mantine in rain. Thunder picks up KOs on Mantine and Drednaw from full, Thunderbolt does 88-95% minimum. Draco does a minimum of 70% to seismitoad. The only issues are Ferrothorn and Barrascewda.
 
Scarfpult is a great anti-rain option. You outspeed Seismitoad, Drednaw and Mantine in rain. Thunder picks up KOs on Mantine and Drednaw from full, Thunderbolt does 88-95% minimum. Draco does a minimum of 70% to seismitoad. The only issues are Ferrothorn and Barrascewda.
Ferro is a staple in rain team. all ferro run chople berry making difficult to take down.
 
I'd like to talk about a specific Pokemon that's put in a LOT of work for me lately, something that's been a fair bit overlooked but frankly shouldn't be. Vaporeon.


Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Scald
- Haze (People have also suggested using Yawn instead)
- Protect​

I can't state enough how much work this thing has put in for my team. A lot of you are probably wondering (well why not choose Toxapex? It fulfills the same role). Because Vaporeon has the following wonderful traits that Toxapex doesn't have.

- Water Absorb grants immunity to Dracovish's Fishious Rend and all other Water moves in the Rain / Dynamax-laden metagame, along with punishing endless Fishious / Water spam by healing Vaporeon
- Neutral damage from Excadrill's Earthquake, Hatterene's Psychic, etc (things that Toxapex hates taking due to its secondary Poison typing)
- Access to Wish coming off of a beefy 130 HP stat, the biggest Wish available in OU

Using Vaporeon is simple; pass massive Wish heals off to restore your team, use Scald to whittle down your opponent and spread Burns. Haze away boosts (particularly from annoying Pokemon such as Dragon Dance Dragapult, Dragon Dance Gyarados [Be wary of Power Whip], Dragon Dance Tyranitar, etc). Use Protect to scout for moves and stall for Wish time should you need to heal yourself.

+1 252 Atk Gyarados Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 157-185 (33.8 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252 Atk Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 228-270 (49.1 - 58.1%) -- approx. 98.8% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 166-196 (35.7 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

EVs are max HP for Wish passing, max Defense for that nice physical bulk. 0 IVs in Attack is so that Strength Sap Pokemon like G-Corsola and Polteageist don't annoy you as much.

The metagame is really kind to Vaporeon right now, and you all shouldn't sleep on it.
 
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I'd like to talk about a specific Pokemon that's put in a LOT of work for me lately, something that's been a fair bit overlooked but frankly shouldn't be. Vaporeon.


Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Scald
- Haze
- Protect​

I can't state enough how much work this thing has put in for my team. A lot of you are probably wondering (well why not choose Toxapex? It fulfills the same role). Because Vaporeon has the following wonderful traits that Toxapex doesn't have.

- Water Absorb grants immunity to Dracovish's Fishious Rend and all other Water moves in the Rain / Dynamax-laden metagame, along with punishing endless Fishious / Water spam by healing Vaporeon
- Neutral damage from Excadrill's Earthquake, Hatterene's Psychic, etc (things that Toxapex hates taking due to its secondary Poison typing)
- Access to Wish coming off of a beefy 130 HP stat

Using Vaporeon is simple; pass massive Wish heals off to restore your team, use Scald to whittle down your opponent and spread Burns. Haze away boosts (particularly from annoying Pokemon such as Dragon Dance Gyarados, Dragon Dance Dragapult, etc). Use Protect to scout for moves and stall for Wish time should you need to heal yourself.

+1 252 Atk Gyarados Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 157-185 (33.8 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252 Atk Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 228-270 (49.1 - 58.1%) -- approx. 98.8% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 166-196 (35.7 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

The metagame is really kind to Vaporeon right now, and you all shouldn't sleep on it.
idk if you want to put Vaporeon in front of Gyarados when many are running Power Whip as coverage againt Washtom and company.. you need to cheeck is coverage move first

EDIT: +1 252 Atk Gyarados Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 374-442 (80.6 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
I'd like to talk about a specific Pokemon that's put in a LOT of work for me lately, something that's been a fair bit overlooked but frankly shouldn't be. Vaporeon.


Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Scald
- Haze
- Protect​

Just posting to mention that a team with Vaporeon (and that exact set) was the one that finally allowed me to get the reqs of the Suspect (with a horrible record anyway, tho). For Stall teams its in my opinion the best Dracovish (and some other Rain sweepers, like Barraskewda) counter, better than Seismitoad or Jellicent due to reliability of Wish, which by the way is the biggest one available. It can take some special Attacks too, and unlike Toxapex it outspeeds Hatterene, Reuniclus and Clefable, so CM versions of that Mons lose to it unless they all start using Thunder (Gigadrain in the case of Hatterene).

I am really enjoying the fact that every Eeveelution (except maybe Jolteon, but I have to try that in Rain/Sun/Hail with Weather Ball) have found some kind of niche in OU. Didn,t happen since GSC.
 
I'd like to talk about a specific Pokemon that's put in a LOT of work for me lately, something that's been a fair bit overlooked but frankly shouldn't be. Vaporeon.


Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Scald
- Haze
- Protect​

I can't state enough how much work this thing has put in for my team. A lot of you are probably wondering (well why not choose Toxapex? It fulfills the same role). Because Vaporeon has the following wonderful traits that Toxapex doesn't have.

- Water Absorb grants immunity to Dracovish's Fishious Rend and all other Water moves in the Rain / Dynamax-laden metagame, along with punishing endless Fishious / Water spam by healing Vaporeon
- Neutral damage from Excadrill's Earthquake, Hatterene's Psychic, etc (things that Toxapex hates taking due to its secondary Poison typing)
- Access to Wish coming off of a beefy 130 HP stat

Using Vaporeon is simple; pass massive Wish heals off to restore your team, use Scald to whittle down your opponent and spread Burns. Haze away boosts (particularly from annoying Pokemon such as Dragon Dance Gyarados, Dragon Dance Dragapult, etc). Use Protect to scout for moves and stall for Wish time should you need to heal yourself.

+1 252 Atk Gyarados Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 157-185 (33.8 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252 Atk Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 228-270 (49.1 - 58.1%) -- approx. 98.8% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 166-196 (35.7 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

The metagame is really kind to Vaporeon right now, and you all shouldn't sleep on it.
This thing was a massive pain during my suspect run since I was almost solely relying on Dracovish as a breaker. Personally, I think it's better than Pex atm since Pex actually loses to a lot of things as you mentioned, making it much more vulnerable to being doubled on. You do need to avoid status / keep t-spikes off the field though.

I mentioned earlier when Gen 8 came out but I think both Umbreon and Vaporeon are really good meta picks right now. Defensive dark typing is really useful in this meta and due to dexit, these are some of the only viable wish passers in existence. Losing out on Toxic sucks for both them, but I'm really liking the utility of Yawn anyway (or Haze ofc, which is always useful).
 
idk if you want to put Vaporeon in front of Gyarados when many are running Power Whip as coverage againt Washtom and company.. you need to cheeck is coverage move first

EDIT: +1 252 Atk Gyarados Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 374-442 (80.6 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Thanks for the heads up, no idea why that slipped my mind. I added a little disclaimer about Power Whip + some additional information.
Just posting to mention that a team with Vaporeon (and that exact set) was the one that finally allowed me to get the reqs of the Suspect (with a horrible record anyway, tho). For Stall teams its in my opinion the best Dracovish (and some other Rain sweepers, like Barraskewda) counter, better than Seismitoad or Jellicent due to reliability of Wish, which by the way is the biggest one available. It can take some special Attacks too, and unlike Toxapex it outspeeds Hatterene, Reuniclus and Clefable, so CM versions of that Mons lose to it unless they all start using Thunder (Gigadrain in the case of Hatterene).

I am really enjoying the fact that every Eeveelution (except maybe Jolteon, but I have to try that in Rain/Sun/Hail with Weather Ball) have found some kind of niche in OU. Didn,t happen since GSC.
I forgot that 130 is the biggest Wish passing level in OU, added to my post. Congrats on getting reqs btw! Honestly I've tried testing out Jolteon in OU to varying degrees of success. Specs STAB Thunder under Rain hits like a truck, and having access to a Water type Weather Ball with Shadow Ball allows you to really nail some things that would otherwise be a pain. Not to mention STAB Volt Switch is absolutely wonderful so you don't become a momentum sapper with Jolteon.

This thing was a massive pain during my suspect run since I was almost solely relying on Dracovish as a breaker. Personally, I think it's better than Pex atm since Pex actually loses to a lot of things as you mentioned, making it much more vulnerable to being doubled on. You do need to avoid status / keep t-spikes off the field though.

I mentioned earlier when Gen 8 came out but I think both Umbreon and Vaporeon are really good meta picks right now. Defensive dark typing is really useful in this meta and due to dexit, these are some of the only viable wish passers in existence. Losing out on Toxic sucks for both them, but I'm really liking the utility of Yawn anyway (or Haze ofc, which is always useful).
Yeah I haven't liked Pex as much during Gen 8's run so far. Vaporeon just has more situational utility right now. Not to mention it has a plethora of options. I actually completely forgot Yawn was an option! I still need to test out Umbreon as well. Pure Dark typing seems like it would be a boom for the Ghost spam running around everywhere.
 
I think you're underestimating just how much being able to set something like terrain or weather makes a mon that much better and valuable on a team. Look at Ninetales and Politoed, mons who are in reality, fucking terrible, but were OU in Gen 5 purely based on the fact that they could set weather. Even Pelipper was awful, but it shot up to OU in gen 7 because it sets rain, and it was only really ever good at setting rain (it did it better than Politoed at least). Being able to set terrain gives Pokemon like Pinchurin, Galar-Weezing, Rillaboom and Indedede extra life. It's impossible to say how good they will be in OU without their HAs being released, but I'm fully expecting to see a lot of them once they are released, especially Rillaboom, who actually looks like a somewhat decent setter.
Only Rillaboom's HA is unreleased.
And Pelipper was far from terrible; it was definitely not dead weight other than setting rain; it provided U-Turn support, a defogger, and a defensive check to fire types in a pinch. It also possessed strong STABs in Hurricane and Scald/Hydro Pump that could hit quite hard in rain.
 
I'd like to talk about a specific Pokemon that's put in a LOT of work for me lately, something that's been a fair bit overlooked but frankly shouldn't be. Vaporeon.


Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Scald
- Haze
- Protect​

I can't state enough how much work this thing has put in for my team. A lot of you are probably wondering (well why not choose Toxapex? It fulfills the same role). Because Vaporeon has the following wonderful traits that Toxapex doesn't have.

- Water Absorb grants immunity to Dracovish's Fishious Rend and all other Water moves in the Rain / Dynamax-laden metagame, along with punishing endless Fishious / Water spam by healing Vaporeon
- Neutral damage from Excadrill's Earthquake, Hatterene's Psychic, etc (things that Toxapex hates taking due to its secondary Poison typing)
- Access to Wish coming off of a beefy 130 HP stat, the biggest Wish available in OU

Using Vaporeon is simple; pass massive Wish heals off to restore your team, use Scald to whittle down your opponent and spread Burns. Haze away boosts (particularly from annoying Pokemon such as Dragon Dance Dragapult, Dragon Dance Gyarados [Be wary of Power Whip], Dragon Dance Tyranitar, etc). Use Protect to scout for moves and stall for Wish time should you need to heal yourself.

+1 252 Atk Gyarados Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 157-185 (33.8 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252 Atk Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 228-270 (49.1 - 58.1%) -- approx. 98.8% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 166-196 (35.7 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

EVs are max HP for Wish passing, max Defense for that nice physical bulk. 0 IVs in Attack is so that Strength Sap Pokemon like G-Corsola and Polteageist don't annoy you as much.

The metagame is really kind to Vaporeon right now, and you all shouldn't sleep on it.
Would also recommend Yawn as an alternative over Haze. Forces out a lot of set up sweepers and causes switches like crazy (great if you have hazards up). It synergizes well with Wish/Protect (you can Yawn as something like Rotom comes in and protect their against their attempt to Volt Switch/U-Turn out) and can help with stalling out turns of Trick Room/Weather/etc.
 
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