Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Usage Stats in post #581]

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A little tech I've been working on is this set for Cinderace that lets it function in a pivot role similar to Rotom-H, where it can check LO clef and Sylveon.

Cinderace @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 236 Atk / 84 SpD / 184 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pyro Ball
- Gunk Shot
- Hi Jump Kick / U-turn
- Sucker Punch / U-turn

Calcs:
236 Atk Cinderace Gunk Shot vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Clefable: 314-370 (94.5 - 111.4%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Clefable Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 84 SpD Cinderace: 129-152 (42.8 - 50.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO

The spdef investment allows cinderace to quite reliably avoid 2hkos from LO clef while OHKOing in return with Gunk Shot. The speed EVs give it 352 speed, a great tier that keeps it ahead of neutral Hawlucha and timid Gengar and Hydreigon. This set is more immediately threatening than Rotom-heat and the good coverage means you can actually get the odd sweep with it, but it's definitely less splashable. I think the main reason to run this is alongside Rotom-Mow or Rotom-Wash, when you can't run the toaster and want more power than Centiskorch or Flareon can offer.
 
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temp

kono sekai
is a Battle Simulator Driver


Conkeldurr @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
- Earthquake
- Bulk Up

I am just loving this set rn. It's an extremely solid breaker that is hard for bulky teams to take down. Pokemon such as Toxapex, Hippowdon or Seismitoad are set-up bait for Conk, and once it gets 1 Bulk Up off, its attack stat goes over 900. Here are a few calcs to illustrate its power:

+1 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 372-440 (114.4 - 135.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 403-475 (102.2 - 120.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mandibuzz: 306-360 (72.1 - 84.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 222-262 (55.5 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Barraskewda: 258-304 (98 - 115.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

+1 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Hatterene: 221-260 (69.4 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO • if you can chip the Hatterene, it's a perfect chance for Conk to Bulk Up as they hard switch it in

This set isn't invincible though since things like Dragapult or Orb Clefable will outpace and OHKO with Draco Meteor and Moonblast respectively. I use max speed to be faster than opposing Conkeldurr (lets you Bulk Up on their Drain Punch) and slower Pokemon like Seismitoad, Sylveon, Mandibuzz or Corviknight.
The boost from Bulk Up can actually sometimes let Conkeldurr 2HKO Gyarados with Drain Punch + Mach Punch, and +1 Drain Punch will beat Corviknight 1v1 too.

Despite Bulk Up, here are some VR Pokemon that still will beat it 1v1 depending on their set or sequence of plays:
1578116923860.png
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(iron defense)
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1578116976229.png
(life orb)
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(air balloon)
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I'd definitely like to see more Bulk Up usage on this mon over options like Close Combat, Thunder Punch, Facade or Defog. It turns it into a really devastating breaker and it can sometimes just win games alone. I also feel like the targets that the above moves have are also hit hard by either a +1 Drain Punch or EQ and if they aren't, Conk would usually die to their attack anyway (like Togekiss Air Slash or Dazzling Gleam, for example).

Conk gets free 6-0 on vs. 1578117214813.png1578117222459.png1578117228251.png1578117236544.png1578117246758.png1578117253948.png
Conk kills this entire team:
1578117453984.png1578117460120.png1578117236544.png1578117470651.png1578117479204.png1578117490558.png
 
Mew

Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Psychic
- Aura Sphere
- Giga Drain​

This ancient boi is actually being slept on right now, this is an interesting set that I've been using lately to pretty great effect. Mew's natural bulk with Leftovers and 328 speed with a Timid nature along with a massive movepool make for a wonderful sweeper. Nasty Plot boosts up Mew's Special Attack to staggering levels, and the lower defense level in Regional OU really helps with Mew's average 100 SpA well.

+2 252 SpA Mew Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 360-426 (118.4 - 140.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

STAB Psychic will be your main choice most of the time, it handles Pokemon such as Toxapex, Toxitricity, Kommo-O, and Conkeldurr. Aura Sphere gives you near perfect coverage against Pokemon likely to switch in such as Bisharp, Hydreigon, and Tyranitar. It also nails Pokemon like Ferrothorn and Excadrill super effectively. Giga Drain may seem like unusual coverage, but there's one main reason for it. Seismitoad. With all the various Water types running around in the Rain archetype infested metagame, Giga Drain is an absolute blessing.
 
Mew

Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Psychic
- Aura Sphere
- Giga Drain​

This ancient boi is actually being slept on right now, this is an interesting set that I've been using lately to pretty great effect. Mew's natural bulk with Leftovers and 328 speed with a Timid nature along with a massive movepool make for a wonderful sweeper. Nasty Plot boosts up Mew's Special Attack to staggering levels, and the lower defense level in Regional OU really helps with Mew's average 100 SpA well.

+2 252 SpA Mew Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 360-426 (118.4 - 140.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

STAB Psychic will be your main choice most of the time, it handles Pokemon such as Toxapex, Toxitricity, Kommo-O, and Conkeldurr. Aura Sphere gives you near perfect coverage against Pokemon likely to switch in such as Bisharp, Hydreigon, and Tyranitar. It also nails Pokemon like Ferrothorn and Excadrill super effectively. Giga Drain may seem like unusual coverage, but there's one main reason for it. Seismitoad. With all the various Water types running around in the Rain archetype infested metagame, Giga Drain is an absolute blessing.
While Nasty Plot +3 attacks Mew is interesting, the coverage you chose is really unoptimized. I would run Flamethrower over Aura Sphere, which allows you to nail Pokémon like Corviknight or Aegislash that would otherwise wall this set, and Dazzling Gleam to round it off, since it can hit supereffectively every Dark type, including those that can take an Aura Sphere such as Mandibuzz and Grimmsnarl.
 
While Nasty Plot +3 attacks Mew is interesting, the coverage you chose is really unoptimized. I would run Flamethrower over Aura Sphere, which allows you to nail Pokémon like Corviknight or Aegislash that would otherwise wall this set, and Dazzling Gleam to round it off, since it can hit supereffectively every Dark type, including those that can take an Aura Sphere such as Mandibuzz and Grimmsnarl.
Np Fblast/fthrow psychic BUG BUZZ is a lot better imo , with lo it helps killing hydreigon behind his sub (same for rotom-cut)

Also it sounds memeish , but actually works thanks to Dugtrio being aids :

Kommo-o @ Leftovers
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 248 HP / 84 Def / 176 Spe
Impish Nature
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Dragon Tail
- Substitute

The amount of meta stuff this thing setups on is quite big , trap haze pex /clef/hat then HF , bulleproof EQ over dtail is also a thing if Aegi is a hell to handle for your team , the creep is meant to outspeed CB vish (base 75) it can be lowered to max speed Ttar but subbing on bulky utility / Nasty plot rotom form is hella good I guess , some spread-pro builder could go further into running some amount of spedef to make the sub live some stuffs idk .
 
While Nasty Plot +3 attacks Mew is interesting, the coverage you chose is really unoptimized. I would run Flamethrower over Aura Sphere, which allows you to nail Pokémon like Corviknight or Aegislash that would otherwise wall this set, and Dazzling Gleam to round it off, since it can hit supereffectively every Dark type, including those that can take an Aura Sphere such as Mandibuzz and Grimmsnarl.
Np Fblast/fthrow psychic BUG BUZZ is a lot better imo , with lo it helps killing hydreigon behind his sub (same for rotom-cut).
I'll give both of your variants a try and see which one I find more success with.

I'd like to bring attention to a Pokemon that I just started using yesterday, but already has done wonders for my team. A fighting type that can handle Fairies, set up in Toxapex's face, and isn't scared of Dragapult? It's downright insulting that this here croaky boi hasn't been used more.

Toxicroak

Toxicroak @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Gunk Shot
- Sucker Punch​

The fact that Toxicroak is all the way down in RU now even with Dexit sorely disappoints me. Let's jump into why this Pokemon is actually extremely underrated.
  • Not a single Toxapex variant can touch Toxicroak courtesy of its typing and ability. Toxicroak can then proceed to set up Swords Dance in Toxapex's face.
  • Dry Skin allows Toxicroak to fit on Rain teams wonderfully, and take advantage of opposing rain as well with free HP recovery.
  • Dry Skin ALSO allows Toxicroak a valuable immunity to Water type moves, including the always horrifying Fishious Rend.
  • STAB Gunk Shot and its Poison typing means that it's the only Fighting type in OU that can reliably deal with obnoxious faeries such as Clefable and Grimmsnarl. It also outspeeds most Fairies in OU.
  • 252 Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 221-260 (69.7 - 82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. Assured OHKO with a Swords Dance boost up.
  • 85 Speed is more than enough to deal with a lot of the slower threats that it preys on, especially since it has access to Sucker Punch to help with all the Ghost types running around.
  • Earthquake allows Toxicroak to take on Aegislash without worrying about a King's Shield attack drop.
  • Also has access to Fighting STAB such as Drain Punch, Low Kick and Cross Chop for different sets in need of other types of coverage.
  • Useful array of other coverage options including Ice Punch, Thunder Punch, Rock Slide, Throat Punch, and X-Scissor.
  • Useful tech options + attacks such as Fake Out, Toxic, Bullet Punch, Nasty Plot, Encore, and Taunt.
So, what are you all waiting for? Go give Toxicroak a try. The advantages are there, and they are SWEET.

Edit: Here's a replay of Toxicroak assuring my win in a particularly fun match - https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1041181467
 
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Using Conkeldurr (with Latios suggested set) and Sylveon (using Stefcio set) seems like a great core.
Conkeldurr can hit a lot of opponents, and can easily break unprepared stallers (Toxapex or Corviknight or Ferro) and most sweepers with mach punch. It doesn't fear ditto since it doesn't take that much from its own moves but ditto has a lot les hp than Conk.
The main counter I've seen so far (an excellent one) is Clef : one shot by moonblast, doesn't take much from mach punch, faster than Conk (no drain punch or earthquake cause OHKO by Moonblast).
However, switching to Sylveon lets you absorb the hits, wish and sweep. I've never been in position to sweep cause the opponents switch to a mon like Excadrill. Which is weak to mach/drain, so i switch too.
So far, I've accumulated chip damage faster than my opponents, thus proving the viability of this core against Clef+Excadrill/Bisharp...

It's also potentially walled by Dragapult if the set is unkown, but special sets are walled by Sylv and physical ones can be dealt with Earthquake.

Is this core good in itself ot is it just the meta ? Is there a third mon that could help ?
 
Using Conkeldurr (with Latios suggested set) and Sylveon (using Stefcio set) seems like a great core.
Conkeldurr can hit a lot of opponents, and can easily break unprepared stallers (Toxapex or Corviknight or Ferro) and most sweepers with mach punch. It doesn't fear ditto since it doesn't take that much from its own moves but ditto has a lot les hp than Conk.
The main counter I've seen so far (an excellent one) is Clef : one shot by moonblast, doesn't take much from mach punch, faster than Conk (no drain punch or earthquake cause OHKO by Moonblast).
However, switching to Sylveon lets you absorb the hits, wish and sweep. I've never been in position to sweep cause the opponents switch to a mon like Excadrill. Which is weak to mach/drain, so i switch too.
So far, I've accumulated chip damage faster than my opponents, thus proving the viability of this core against Clef+Excadrill/Bisharp...

It's also potentially walled by Dragapult if the set is unkown, but special sets are walled by Sylv and physical ones can be dealt with Earthquake.

Is this core good in itself ot is it just the meta ? Is there a third mon that could help ?
Run Facade, it smashes fairies and keeps them from switching in for free. Rotom-H is a good partner as it can switch into steel/poison moves aimed at Sylveon and fairy/flying moves aimed at Conkeldurr. It can also pressure Jellicent and Corsola which Conkeldurr struggles with, weaken a lot of things for Conkeldurr to finish off (or vice versa as Rotom-H is a scary wallbreaker in itself), and bring Conk in through volt switches. Conkeldurr also beats Seismitoad which is Rotom-H's main counter while Rotom-H benefits from Sylveon's wishes as it lacks recovery.
 
Hey there, I'm back yet again with another Pokemon that's been doing some hella wonders for me as of late. When Rotom possesses the tool utilized by dads everywhere we get... Rotom Mow

Rotom-Mow

Rotom-Mow @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Thunderbolt
- Trick
- Volt Switch​

Now you're probably wondering (why would I use Rotom-Mow? Aren't Rotom-Heat and Rotom-Wash better)? To answer that hypothetical question, it entirely depends on what you're using each Rotom form for. If you're trying to use Mow like Heat or Wash, then yes you're gonna have a bad time. If you're trying to use it for its specific form benefits (like being the only Rotom form to reliably OHKO Seismitoad and having the ability to handle Rotom-Wash), then Rotom-Mow will do you well.

STAB Grass is exceedingly rare in SS OU, with Ferrothorn being the only Grass type currently in the tier. This means that a lot of cores are actually blown open by STAB Leaf Storm due to the excess of powerful Rain abusing Pokemon running around. Along with this, two Water types able to handle all the other Rotom forms (Seismitoad and Gastrodon) are always cleanly OHKO'd by Mow. Thunderbolt is for reliable STAB, although if you're just fine with Volt Switch for Electric STAB you could swap it out for Will-O-Wisp, or swap out Volt Switch for Will-O-Wisp. It depends on whether having momentum, an extra attack, or extra tech is more important to you. Trick is the second crux of this set, and allows Rotom-Mow to cripple set up sweepers or bulky support mons such as Toxapex.
 


Conkeldurr @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
- Earthquake
- Bulk Up

I am just loving this set rn. It's an extremely solid breaker that is hard for bulky teams to take down. Pokemon such as Toxapex, Hippowdon or Seismitoad are set-up bait for Conk, and once it gets 1 Bulk Up off, its attack stat goes over 900. Here are a few calcs to illustrate its power:

+1 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 372-440 (114.4 - 135.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 403-475 (102.2 - 120.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mandibuzz: 306-360 (72.1 - 84.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 222-262 (55.5 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Barraskewda: 258-304 (98 - 115.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

+1 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Hatterene: 221-260 (69.4 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO • if you can chip the Hatterene, it's a perfect chance for Conk to Bulk Up as they hard switch it in

This set isn't invincible though since things like Dragapult or Orb Clefable will outpace and OHKO with Draco Meteor and Moonblast respectively. I use max speed to be faster than opposing Conkeldurr (lets you Bulk Up on their Drain Punch) and slower Pokemon like Seismitoad, Sylveon, Mandibuzz or Corviknight.
The boost from Bulk Up can actually sometimes let Conkeldurr 2HKO Gyarados with Drain Punch + Mach Punch, and +1 Drain Punch will beat Corviknight 1v1 too.

Despite Bulk Up, here are some VR Pokemon that still will beat it 1v1 depending on their set or sequence of plays: View attachment 216668View attachment 216669View attachment 216670View attachment 216671View attachment 216672
(iron defense)View attachment 216674View attachment 216675View attachment 216676(life orb)View attachment 216677View attachment 216678(air balloon)View attachment 216679

I'd definitely like to see more Bulk Up usage on this mon over options like Close Combat, Thunder Punch, Facade or Defog. It turns it into a really devastating breaker and it can sometimes just win games alone. I also feel like the targets that the above moves have are also hit hard by either a +1 Drain Punch or EQ and if they aren't, Conk would usually die to their attack anyway (like Togekiss Air Slash or Dazzling Gleam, for example).

Conk gets free 6-0 on vs. View attachment 216680View attachment 216681View attachment 216682View attachment 216683View attachment 216684View attachment 216685
Conk kills this entire team:
View attachment 216686View attachment 216687View attachment 216683View attachment 216688View attachment 216689View attachment 216690
Adding onto the Conkeldurr discussion i've been trying out Assault Vest on him lately and it's been working better than expected, with the drawback being the capability of going through Corviknight and being susceptible to will-o-wisp/scald burns but the positive side is being able to survive a fully invested moonblast from Clefable(80%~) and possibly killing it if Clefable was switch unto a Drain Punch following with Poison Jab.

This is the set i've been running:

Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
- Poison Jab
- Thunder Punch / Ice Punch

Assault Vest + Drain Punch makes Conkeldurr a lot more durable than his Guts counterpart and harder for the enemy team to take down.
 
Adding onto the Conkeldurr discussion i've been trying out Assault Vest on him lately and it's been working better than expected, with the drawback being the capability of going through Corviknight and being susceptible to will-o-wisp/scald burns but the positive side is being able to survive a fully invested moonblast from Clefable(80%~) and possibly killing it if Clefable was switch unto a Drain Punch following with Poison Jab.

This is the set i've been running:

Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
- Poison Jab
- Thunder Punch / Ice Punch

Assault Vest + Drain Punch makes Conkeldurr a lot more durable than his Guts counterpart and harder for the enemy team to take down.
I don,t like the set, but if it works for you, you could just use Guts on AV too, so that Scald burns and Wows don,t make the set useless.
 

Prime2049

Banned deucer.
Adding onto the Conkeldurr discussion i've been trying out Assault Vest on him lately and it's been working better than expected, with the drawback being the capability of going through Corviknight and being susceptible to will-o-wisp/scald burns but the positive side is being able to survive a fully invested moonblast from Clefable(80%~) and possibly killing it if Clefable was switch unto a Drain Punch following with Poison Jab.

This is the set i've been running:

Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
- Poison Jab
- Thunder Punch / Ice Punch

Assault Vest + Drain Punch makes Conkeldurr a lot more durable than his Guts counterpart and harder for the enemy team to take down.
Assault Vest is truly awesome right now, it helps a lot with easing the pressure that Dragapult can put on a more offensive team. Please consider this spread that I've been running:

Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 132 SpD / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature

The creep is mostly for fairies. Now you can outspeed Clefable and Sylveon and hit both of them with a Poison Jab! Guts is great because it lets you switch in on Seismitoed with impunity, also matching up better against Rotom and WoW Hex Dragapult. I recomment Earthquake over the elemental punches for Aegislash coverage.
 
Yo again

Been at it with the weird tech again. This time it's my good boi Heliolisk. Absords Fishous Rend like a boss, is fast, go either volt switch or u-turn and is just a good boi.

I was running VS/TBolt/Surf/DP but the coverage wasn't great and my team was killed by Clangerous Soul Kommo'o, so here's the new tech.

heliolisk.gif

Heliolisk @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Focus Blast
- Glare
- Surf/Dark Pulse/Dragon Pulse/Tbolt​

Scarf glare cripples Kommo'o once it's set up and cripples scarfers. Also, noticed seismitoad/excadrill coming in on my Heliolisk lead expecting volt switch only to be crippled from turn 1.

Ignore my horrible misplays but it catches people out and does work.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1041846210
 
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One thing people are overlooking with Hydregion is its physical capabilities.



Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Throat Chop
- Stone Edge/Iron Tail
- Earthquake

With the addition of Dragon Dance to Hydregion’s movepool, it can become a fearsome physical sweeper.
After +1 Spe, Adamant Hydregion (442) is capable outspeeding Timid nature Dragapult lacking Scarf (421), letting it use its maximum damage output and lets it open up its coverage options.
Throat Chop ties Crunch in BP, PP, and Accuracy, but can prevent Pokemon from using sound based moves, shutting down Pokemon like Kommo-o, Toxtricity, and Phasers that only have roar, making it the preferred choice.
Stone Edge is capable of dealing with Togekiss, Mandibuzz, and other Hydregion.
Iron Tail is also usable over stone edge, which still hits Mandibuss and Hydregions hard, while hitting Fairy types hard, although has even lower accuracy and only hits Fairy types hard.
Lastly it has Earthquake, which allows Hydregion to always 2HKO Toxapex, Tyranitar, and Bisharp, while 3HKOing Conkeldurr, without DD boosts.

Thanks to Hydregion’s resistances, immunities, and bulk, it can find itself setting up on passive Pokemon or abuse choice lock, similar to its Nasty Plot set.
However, this version of Hydregion trades off safety from Leech Seed and Toxic, it makes up for with being harder to revenge kill and “cheese”, like with Bulletproof Kommo-o or Infiltrator Dragapult. Also, like when Darmanitan-G was legal (or when Mega Lucario existed in OU), it can use the surprise factor to get an easy free turn, as even if the opponent is aware this set exists, they will have to guess which set it is using since NP and DD Hydregion don’t have any overlapping switch-ins or 1 universal (besides maybe Conkeldurr).
 

Jordy

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I really can't see the appeal to Dragon Dance Hydreigon. I suppose it's a slightly better cleaner, but it's a much worse wallbreaker, especially when considering that it gets burned quite often because it mostly wants to be taking advantage of bulky Water-types and Rotom.
 
I really can't see the appeal to Dragon Dance Hydreigon. I suppose it's a slightly better cleaner, but it's a much worse wallbreaker, especially when considering that it gets burned quite often because it mostly wants to be taking advantage of bulky Water-types and Rotom.
On the other hand it completely cripples sylveon as a counter since hyper voice is blocked by throat chop giving you at least a +2/+2 since sylveon can’t realistically do anything and has to switch out (i’m considering a case where hydreigon statups once and sylveon comes in).
 

McCoolDude

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On the other hand it completely cripples sylveon as a counter since hyper voice is blocked by throat chop giving you at least a +2/+2 since sylveon can’t realistically do anything and has to switch out (i’m considering a case where hydreigon statups once and sylveon comes in).

Not sure I'd click a second DDance because if they call it, you die.

Be aware that it makes conk a much stronger counter. At +1 none of those moves 2HKO (and you don't have a sub to absorb a Mach punch and drop a Draco), so it's rather safe clicking drain punch. Partnering with a strong ghost (aegi - pult might be inconsistent due to ice punch being run sometimes) might help.
 
Not sure I'd click a second DDance because if they call it, you die.

Be aware that it makes conk a much stronger counter. At +1 none of those moves 2HKO (and you don't have a sub to absorb a Mach punch and drop a Draco), so it's rather safe clicking drain punch. Partnering with a strong ghost (aegi - pult might be inconsistent due to ice punch being run sometimes) might help.
Throat chop disables sound moves for 2 turns so it’s safe to ddance a second time (or predict a switch). It’s true that this makes conk a bigger counter.
 

McCoolDude

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Throat chop disables sound moves for 2 turns so it’s safe to ddance a second time (or predict a switch). It’s true that this makes conk a bigger counter.

I could have sworn that was a single turn effect! That's definitely interesting, then.
 
What boosting Mew sets are you guys using?
I've been running NP with Psychic, Flamethrower, and Bug Buzz (tried a lot of other stuff instead of Bug Buzz like Focus Blast, Tbolt etc etc but Bug Buzz is nice for Hydreigon behind a substitute)
On DD sets I run Psychic Fangs, Close Combat and Flare Blitz but it doesn't seem anywhere close to optimal coverage lol.
 

Finchinator

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BW Circuit Champion
I like that this thread has an ongoing dialogue about more niche options and new Pokemon that may be able to circulate throughout the metagame. While the tier is a far cry from stagnancy due to it being relatively new, teambuilding conventions have quickly grown on individuals who frequent the tier and a sense of safe standardization has developed. To highlight this, I made a video explaining what is "in" and why. I hope that this gives newer players to the metagame a resource to help learn how to teambuild and why specific things are used/what they are used for.

Please note that this is not a green-light to advertise your own videos/media. I am in charge of a lot of different projects and I have grown tired of typing out each individual, drawn out post, so I changed it up for once and made a video. I do not monetize off of YouTube and I do not intend to do so. Seeing as moderators frequently post resources for community benefit, there should be no issue with this.
 
I like that this thread has an ongoing dialogue about more niche options and new Pokemon that may be able to circulate throughout the metagame. While the tier is a far cry from stagnancy due to it being relatively new, teambuilding conventions have quickly grown on individuals who frequent the tier and a sense of safe standardization has developed. To highlight this, I made a video explaining what is "in" and why. I hope that this gives newer players to the metagame a resource to help learn how to teambuild and why specific things are used/what they are used for.

Please note that this is not a green-light to advertise your own videos/media. I am in charge of a lot of different projects and I have grown tired of typing out each individual, drawn out post, so I changed it up for once and made a video. I do not monetize off of YouTube and I do not intend to do so. Seeing as moderators frequently post resources for community benefit, there should be no issue with this.
Thank you for the acknowledgement of everyone in the thread (myself included) talking about these niche options. I like to bring them up because I feel as though a lot of these options have a great possibility of going beyond just being niche if people discover them and use them. (Particularly with Pokemon I've talked about such as Toxicroak and Silvally-Steel which have valuable niches in OU, but are ignored because new toy syndrome didn't hit them).

In spirit of this, I'd like to bring up another new Pokemon that I've had some unexpected but more than welcome success with in OU. Eldegoss.

Eldegoss

Eldegoss @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leech Seed
- Rapid Spin
- Sleep Powder
- Leaf Storm / Aromatherapy​

You're probably wondering, what the hell can this thing do? Doesn't it have weird stats and a limited movepool? Well, those weird stats and limited movepool just meant that it was a bit harder for people to find a use for it. But here's what I've discovered with my time with this flying cotton ball, it's actually one of the most specifically tailored Rapid Spin Pokemon ever created by Game Freak.

  • Eldegoss (and its pre-evolution) is the only Pokemon in the entire game to have access to the uniquely deadly combination of Sleep Powder and Rapid Spin.
  • Eldegoss is also the only Pokemon in the entire game to have access to both Rapid Spin and Regenerator, giving Eldegoss a specific longevity that other spinners just don't have.
  • Eldegoss is ALSO the only Pokemon in the entire game to have access to both Rapid Spin and Leech Seed, allowing them to set up along with breaking down bulkier switch ins.
  • Having access to all these unique niches gives Eldegoss its best reason for existing in OU, unique role compression in a way that no other Pokemon can do.
  • 60 / 90 / 120 bulk is solid especially with Regenerator and Leech Seed backing it up. There are a wide variety of Pokemon on the Special side that cannot break Eldegoss.
  • Eldegoss has access to a variety of other options if your set requires specific tailoring such as Synthesis for more reliable recovery, Aromatherapy to act as a cleric, Protect and Substitute for scouting, and Stun Spore to spread paralysis.
  • Cinderace cannot Court Change Leech Seed, as many players who have come against my Eldegoss have tried to do with no avail.
  • Eldegoss has additional offensive coverage options such as Pollen Puff, Hyper Voice, and Weather Ball for 100 BP Fire STAB on Sun Teams.
  • Eldegoss can handle Pokemon that Rapid Spinners like Excadrill cannot handle, such as Seismitoad and Gastrodon
Give Eldegoss a try if you need the unique niche of a Rapid Spinner that can set up Leech Seed and put your enemy's Pokemon to sleep.
 
Thank you for the acknowledgement of everyone in the thread (myself included) talking about these niche options. I like to bring them up because I feel as though a lot of these options have a great possibility of going beyond just being niche if people discover them and use them. (Particularly with Pokemon I've talked about such as Toxicroak and Silvally-Steel which have valuable niches in OU, but are ignored because new toy syndrome didn't hit them).

In spirit of this, I'd like to bring up another new Pokemon that I've had some unexpected but more than welcome success with in OU. Eldegoss.

Eldegoss

Eldegoss @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leech Seed
- Rapid Spin
- Sleep Powder
- Leaf Storm / Aromatherapy​

You're probably wondering, what the hell can this thing do? Doesn't it have weird stats and a limited movepool? Well, those weird stats and limited movepool just meant that it was a bit harder for people to find a use for it. But here's what I've discovered with my time with this flying cotton ball, it's actually one of the most specifically tailored Rapid Spin Pokemon ever created by Game Freak.

  • Eldegoss (and its pre-evolution) is the only Pokemon in the entire game to have access to the uniquely deadly combination of Sleep Powder and Rapid Spin.
  • Eldegoss is also the only Pokemon in the entire game to have access to both Rapid Spin and Regenerator, giving Eldegoss a specific longevity that other spinners just don't have.
  • Eldegoss is ALSO the only Pokemon in the entire game to have access to both Rapid Spin and Leech Seed, allowing them to set up along with breaking down bulkier switch ins.
  • Having access to all these unique niches gives Eldegoss its best reason for existing in OU, unique role compression in a way that no other Pokemon can do.
  • 60 / 90 / 120 bulk is solid especially with Regenerator and Leech Seed backing it up. There are a wide variety of Pokemon on the Special side that cannot break Eldegoss.
  • Eldegoss has access to a variety of other options if your set requires specific tailoring such as Synthesis for more reliable recovery, Aromatherapy to act as a cleric, Protect and Substitute for scouting, and Stun Spore to spread paralysis.
  • Cinderace cannot Court Change Leech Seed, as many players who have come against my Eldegoss have tried to do with no avail.
  • Eldegoss has additional offensive coverage options such as Pollen Puff, Hyper Voice, and Weather Ball for 100 BP Fire STAB on Sun Teams.
  • Eldegoss can handle Pokemon that Rapid Spinners like Excadrill cannot handle, such as Seismitoad and Gastrodon
Give Eldegoss a try if you need the unique niche of a Rapid Spinner that can set up Leech Seed and put your enemy's Pokemon to sleep.
I haven't used Eldegoss myself but it's an outside pick that can actually be quite annoying. Grass typing is both extremely rare and extremely good right now, so every grass type with remotely decent stats can find utility sheerly from walling the huge glut of water types in the tier right now. I've seen a handful of weird grass mons filling defensive/support niches all the way up through OU and I think Eldegoss is probably the best among the less common picks. It's definitely more effective than Appletun, which I've seen on a few stall teams. I feel like Eldegoss would fit ok on stall as well.
 
To start, this is my first post, and I’m new to competitive Pokémon. I have a couple of questions to start off with:
1: Galarian Corsola is already stupid bulky, but it also gets light screen and reflect. Why have there been no sets running this? Ik it’s probably because corsola only really has one move slot it can change around, as 3 moves are basically required (Nightshade, Will’O’Wisp, and Strength sap,) so why haven’t people put light screen in the final slot because corsola is already great at destroying physical Pokémon, so a 50% decrease from special moves means that corsola won’t die. Also, if you have a prankster grimmsnarl use light screen and reflect before you send out corsola, you don’t need those moves on corsola.
2: Why has no one used galarian corsola against the fish himself? Scarf fish is a 2HKO, so if you use strength sap you will lower the fish’s attack by 33.3%, and heal back all health from fishious rend. Use it again to guarantee living the next hit + make his attack half of normal (142 to 71) and you can wear him down from there with night shade. If it’s banded fish, it’s around a 40% to OHKO, so use strength sap 2-3 times to lower the fish’s attack enough to where you are safe. Ik that water absorb and storm drain Pokémon are way better, but not everyone is going to have a Pokémon with either of those abilities, while corsola is a Pokémon most people have.
3: Because I am new to competitive Pokémon, I would like to know some sets using clefable. I had no idea that clefable is one of the best Pokémon in the game, so some sets would be helpful.
4: With all of the talk about flinching with galarian darmanitan using icicle crash, it made me think of para-flinch togekiss. Use thunder wave and a move that flinches, and, if you have serene grace, there is a 85% chance of either paralysis or flinching. Idk if bright powder and lax incense are legal, but, if they are, holding either of those will make it a 86.5% chance of not attacking, and that’s if they use 100% accurate moves. For the EVs of my togekiss, I put 252 HP/252 SPE/4 ATK, so it would be fast and bulky.
5: I haven’t seen anything with toxtricity, so I will talk about a set for him. Get a toxtricity that’s amped form, and teach it overdrive, boom burst, toxic, and veno shock. It’s ability should be punk rock, and have it hold either throat spray or a magnet. EVs should be 252 SPA/252 SPE/4 HP, so that it is as fast as possible and plenty of special attack for sound moves. There are some counters, such as excadrill and seismitoad, galarian darmanitan, the fish, and bulky Pokémon. However, these attacks are ridiculously strong, and the base power of a boom burst off the get go is 210, while overdrive is 270 base power if you have a magnet. Toxtricity isn’t the best Pokémon, but it’s a good gimmick Pokémon if they don’t have anything to deal with it.
6: An idea for a prank dracovish set is make it have water absorb, so when they use their fish, it won’t do anything. This is just a thought tho, and probably won’t happen. Use moves that would be supereffective against the fish, such as dragon moves.
7: Galarian mr. mime has a gimmick of being able to OHKO the fish, gyrados, seismitoad, and more. It learns the move freeze dry, which is an ice move that is supereffective against water types. The 3 Pokémon listed above are 4x weak to this move, so it effectively has a base power of 480 against those 3, all of which are very prominent in the meta. The reason you would use galarian mr. mime instead of mr. rime is because mr. mime is faster. The set would be choice scarf held item, screen wiper for ability, and move set just has to have freeze dry. EVs should be 252 SPA/252 SPE/4 HP. This is a potential dracovish counter.
8: Ik that corsola is probably one of the best tanks, but what about shuckle? Shuckle has worse stats overall than corsola, but his purpose is to be a tank, and, with 230 defense and special defense, he tanks everything. Can anyone tell me why shuckle isn’t used at all (aside from his other terrible stats)
Thanks for reading this post, and I hope my ideas weren’t too idiotic.
 
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