Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Usage Stats in post #581]

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A couple of options:

- 124 EVs to hit 157 Speed, which outspeeds defensive Clefable, Sylveon and 0 speed Aegislash by one point
- 184 EVs to hit 172 Speed, which outspeeds min speed Corviknight by two points and those who outspeed that by one point (171 speed is common for LO Clefable). You'll also outspeed min speed Pelipper and Vaporeon/Umbreon/Flareon
- 236 EVs to hit 185 Speed, which outspeeds min speed Seismitoad

It depends on how offensively you want to play him and how the rest of your team looks (for example if defensive Clefable gives the rest of your team a headache then it can definitely be worth it to outspeed that).
Is there a reason to outspeed those? I figured a slow Drain Punch is usually better.
 
Is there a reason to outspeed those? I figured a slow Drain Punch is usually better.
I would say the main benefit is being able to check a ton of the aforementioned threats with Facade, whereas most of them would easily beat Conkeldurr 1v1 if they outspeed. Unfortunately, it's not the best as a last ditch effort because you never know when your opponent is going to be speed creeping.
 
Specs Aegislash is an absolute menace. Wanted to keep it a secret (lol) but might as well say it. Aegislash obviously has a lot of variety, but even a fully invested Mandibuzz is getting 2HKO'd cleanly by a specs Steel Beam.
 
Anybody knows a good counter to court change other than dugtrio. I have been giving some very spike heavy teams a go, but dugtrio, not only is a hinderance by occupying a very valuable team slot, but also becoming predictable and often having to rely on it's focus sash to counter cinderade. I'd like to know how you go about dealing with this new threat.
 

Jordy

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Anybody knows a good counter to court change other than dugtrio. I have been giving some very spike heavy teams a go, but dugtrio, not only is a hinderance by occupying a very valuable team slot, but also becoming predictable and often having to rely on it's focus sash to counter cinderade. I'd like to know how you go about dealing with this new threat.
Seismitoad's really splashable in the current metagame and one of the best checks to Cinderace. Toxapex is another great check; Cinderace can't really do anything against it and it can be poisoned by Baneful Bunker as well. Dragapult's pretty good at pressuring Cinderace, resisting most of its common moves and easily outspeeding it, though you have to be wary of Sucker Punch. Other, more niche Pokemon like Jellicent, Gastrodon, and Milotic are also good checks to Cinderace. However, I'm just going to say that with a Dugtrio, Cinderace should rarely be a problem if you don't hazardously bring it in.
 
Seismitoad's really splashable in the current metagame and one of the best checks to Cinderace. Toxapex is another great check; Cinderace can't really do anything against it and it can be poisoned by Baneful Bunker as well. Dragapult's pretty good at pressuring Cinderace, resisting most of its common moves and easily outspeeding it, though you have to be wary of Sucker Punch. Other, more niche Pokemon like Jellicent, Gastrodon, and Milotic are also good checks to Cinderace. However, I'm just going to say that with a Dugtrio, Cinderace should rarely be a problem if you don't hazardously bring it in.
I meant, is there a way to stop him from using court change? I had a toxapex and even a gyrados on top of dugtrio on my team. They often do kill it or at least heavilly preasure it and cause damage on whatever switches in. The real problem was that while I changed them in, court change made the stealth rock, 2 spikes, and 2 toxic spikes my mew had died laying turn against me, thus pretty much meaning a game over, and it has happened to me many times now to different lengths. What I mean is, is there any hope of making a spike heavy team work, or should I just give up and only use stealth rock due to court change being fundamentally unavoidable?
 
I meant, is there a way to stop him from using court change? I had a toxapex and even a gyrados on top of dugtrio on my team. They often do kill it or at least heavilly preasure it and cause damage on whatever switches in. The real problem was that while I changed them in, court change made the stealth rock, 2 spikes, and 2 toxic spikes my mew had died laying turn against me, thus pretty much meaning a game over, and it has happened to me many times now to different lengths. What I mean is, is there any hope of making a spike heavy team work, or should I just give up and only use stealth rock due to court change being fundamentally unavoidable?
You could try running court change Cinderace yourself and switch it in everytime your opponent goes into Cinderace and if they use court change on your switch you court change on the following turn
 
I meant, is there a way to stop him from using court change? I had a toxapex and even a gyrados on top of dugtrio on my team. They often do kill it or at least heavilly preasure it and cause damage on whatever switches in. The real problem was that while I changed them in, court change made the stealth rock, 2 spikes, and 2 toxic spikes my mew had died laying turn against me, thus pretty much meaning a game over, and it has happened to me many times now to different lengths. What I mean is, is there any hope of making a spike heavy team work, or should I just give up and only use stealth rock due to court change being fundamentally unavoidable?
It sounds like to me you’re playing the match up wrong. Why would you set up hazards so heavily if you see a cinderace in team preview? I feel that throughout my own play my game plan on hazard stacking teams is to bait in the cinderace and whittle it down. If you find yourself up against a lot of cinderace, I think the best plan for hazard stacking teams is to be patient when you see a cinderace on team preview. I find a lot of cinderace come in when they expect hazards or off a slow pivot. I would get into the habit of just attacking when you get an opportunity to set hazards on the expected cinderace switch in. I find cinderace switching into ferrothorn a lot, so I just got into the habit of hitting leech seed when I have a hazards opportunity. Is it the most convenient? Not really but I can’t just let the cinderace court change for free. Cinderace isnt super strong so its a matter of playing it slow if possible, obviously thats not always possible as it is used on almost exclusively hyper offensive, but knowing that it will want to court change is key to beating it. Obviously I can’t know for sure since I’m not you, but maybe try approaching it from a different perspective?

Outside of that I’m shocked with how much success I am seeing with flareon at the moment. Having a wish support is nice and it has been great at checking most special threats in the tier at the moment with not a lot of trouble. Clefable and hatterene are everywhere and having the blanket check that also helps pressure Corviknight is really nice. It also helps with the special dragons in the tier, as it can take most timid-specs dragapult attacks and can break hydra subs with blitz meaning its not just set up fodder.

Also, with darm gone, I surprisingly think that bellossom is a pretty interesting niche choice. It has unique access to strength sap and quiver dance. Corviknight can’t kill it without previous bulk ups, meaning that it forces the defog set out once it gets up a single dance since it can outspeed and potentially get up leech seed too. I think its a super sleeper pick. Don’t get me wrong, its not insanely good, but with the popularity of bulky waters, especially ground/water types, I think bellossom has a cool niche that can partner well with something like dracovish
 
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Gary

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Shoutouts to Jordy for showing me this a few days ago.

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Dark Pulse
- Flash Cannon
- Draco Meteor

This set is 100% busted. Every defensive Pokemon that was once considered a good check to this thing is now no longer. Unless we are talking like, max max Sylveon, which still takes an absolute fuck load from this thing. The last slot has a couple of options like Dragon Pulse/Fire Blast but imo the best is Draco. You have a chance to OHKO Mandi from FULL, SpDef Clef is OHKOed by Flash, Milo drops, and like stray fat Kommo-o can no longer check it. It's legit impossible to wall. Unless you play like a complete monkey you will get 1-2 kills vs balance minimum. They just don't have anything for it. Your only way is to offensively pressure it as much as possible and keep it from coming in. You don't even need a boost to punch massive holes into fat, but it can get plenty of opportunities to setup. Not like much can switch into LO Pulses/Dracos anyway. I think this is definitely the best Hydreigon set right now. Sub NP/Specs are cool but those have more reliable counterplay. This does not. Pair with Volt/turn and something like Specs Pult which can just snack afterwards.
 
Shoutouts to Jordy for showing me this a few days ago.

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Dark Pulse
- Flash Cannon
- Draco Meteor

This set is 100% busted. Every defensive Pokemon that was once considered a good check to this thing is now no longer. Unless we are talking like, max max Sylveon, which still takes an absolute fuck load from this thing. The last slot has a couple of options like Dragon Pulse/Fire Blast but imo the best is Draco. You have a chance to OHKO Mandi from FULL, SpDef Clef is OHKOed by Flash, Milo drops, and like stray fat Kommo-o can no longer check it. It's legit impossible to wall. Unless you play like a complete monkey you will get 1-2 kills vs balance minimum. They just don't have anything for it. Your only way is to offensively pressure it as much as possible and keep it from coming in. You don't even need a boost to punch massive holes into fat, but it can get plenty of opportunities to setup. Not like much can switch into LO Pulses/Dracos anyway. I think this is definitely the best Hydreigon set right now. Sub NP/Specs are cool but those have more reliable counterplay. This does not. Pair with Volt/turn and something like Specs Pult which can just snack afterwards.
Depends on you teammates but SubHydre is still really damn good if you combine it with SpecsAegi.
 

Gary

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The point is, you can more reliably break balance without needing Aegi to help. Stuff like Mandi, SpDef Clef, Slyveon, and Milo can force out Sub NP, and will require additional support from Aegi to sweep/break. While that is definitely a good core, some teams would prefer the more aggressive nature of this set for its ability to destroy fat on its own. Sub NP usually requires a bit more support to fully achieve results where as this set is meant to just blow holes, and it doesn't need additional support to do so. It all depends on your team. Both have their uses, which is why both are good on certain team structures. Hydreigon is super splashable and won't always be paired with Aegi.
 
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I am not a top tier player, since I have been inactive from showdown for a few months (and also boycotted the dynamax-centered OU), with my rank being quite low, but I discovered a pretty underrated core that can work well against well built teams and is surprisingly effective.

This is Flareon and Seismitoad.

First, let's state the obvious that I am still shocked that Flareon, one of the most-well known underachievers in Pokemon history, is viable, even as a mid-ranker. But then I used it after curiosity overwhelmed me and it is true that it is a fully functional Wish passer, something rare for a Fire-type. Heavy Duty Boots are also a blessing for this, alongside every hazard-weak mon turned vianle thanks to HDB.

So anyways, Flareon helps Seismitoad by dealing with lots of huge threats that can nuke Toad, mostly special attackers, which are: Corvikinght, Rotom-Mow, Clefable, Hatterene, Ferrothorn and Sylveon. (It also checks Aegislash and walls Cinderace and Rotom-H but Toad can face them as well so this is why they are not listed). Also, it has Wish, which is a huge boon since it can pass it to Toad, who has no reliable recovery, and keep it healthy throughout the battle. Also, Will-O-Wisp allows it to weaken the physical attackers Toad checks. On the other hand, Toad is immune to Water and Rock attacks and has good physical bulk, which allows it to take on mons that threat Flareon, including Dracovish (duh), Vaporeon, Rotom-Wash (which it fully counters), Toxapex (more in the late game due to Regenerator), Dugtrio, Excadrill, Dracozolt and Barraskewda. Also, rocks and Toxic (the latter being rare) can also wear them down more easily.

Overall, this core is potent enough not only to deal well with FerroPex, but to also combat a variety of threats, both high and mid-rankers. It would really work with a decent team built around it.
 
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EviGaro

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Discussion that came out of the VR thread, but since I'm less interested in the actual rank - and more importantly, finding good replays is a pain - I'll just post it here cause it's about a fun mon that got really underrated in favour of options that aren't really better at much imo:

Comparing Arcanine to Flareon is weird cause Flareon performs it's specific niche better than Arcanine. Its Flare Blitz hits harder, wish support helps the whole team, etc. Technically, yes, in a vacuum, Arcanine is a more versatile Pokemon, but in the context of OU, it can't really do anything that other mons don't do better.
I strongly disagree with that, actually.

Flareon's issues are numerous, but the easiest one to note is still the same as always: its stats spread is godawful. It has the unholy trifecta of bad HP stat, bad phys def and bad speed. And that makes it super troublesome to pick it for the advantages you are quoting. No HP is obviously a no go as you need the investment to actually check the things somewhat decently and pass wishes that don't get wasted by hazards, no attack means that no you're not actually hitting harder than Arcanine, and no speed means you can't really outpace anything and leaves yourself open to many wallbreakers, ironically amongst them would be Clefable.

Arcanine meanwhile, benefits largely from a superb stats spread rn, and especially with regards to speed. I don't think it's necessarily good to portray Arcanine as a Clefable counter; rather it's a more than decent check to it that also outpaces significant threats like Excadrill, Gyarados, all Rotoms, Lucario, speed ties with Obstagoon... It can burn other threats like CB Dracovish / Dracozolt, Tyranitar if you're not running CC, Mandibuzz, that sort of thing. And all of that can be done with far more moveslots flexibility due to the nature of Wish needing protect, and very importantly far better flexibility on investment. Oh and also ability flexibility is pretty dope, as Intimidate boots its natural bulk significantly and Flash Fire is ok for offensive purpose too

To me Arcanine has been a pleasant surprise in this tier, as the offensive set with boots benefits highly from its natural attributes and doesn't need much tinkering. I also can't say I really thought about using Flareon or Centiskorch in its place either, as both mons, like I said above, are just dumb slow and don't actually check the things better to such a degree that I would want to waste all the good options Arcanine provides for them.
 
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chimp

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With December almost over, I'm sure many of us are eagerly awaiting this month's usage stats to drop. December is no doubt going to be a wonky month, since half of it was dedicated to the Dynamax suspect, so some Pokemon's usage are bound to be a bit more inflated than others. Despite this, I would like to take a crack at my future-gazing, prophet skills to see if I can predict what I expect to be the top 10 most used Pokemon.

#10) Rotom-Heat :Rotom-Heat:
I have a feeling Rotom-Heat is going to bake right through the usage stats, climbing up to the #10 spot. This 'mon has kinda been everywhere lately. Its one of the best stops to Galarian Darmanitan right now, but even beyond that, its just a really good Pokemon. Electric + Fire STAB is pretty wild, letting it rock typical defensive cores containing Pokemon like Ferrothorn, Toxapex, Corviknight, Clefable and Aegislash. Levitate is huge, too, letting it avoid being trapped by Dugtrio. Combine that with some utility with Will-o-wisp and potential offensive sets with Nasty Plot, and you have a fairly versatile and interestingly powerful threat. I've done a few RMTs lately, and I feel like Rotom-Heat has been the Pokemon I recommend the most. It just adds a lot to a team if played correctly, and I would not be surprised if it becomes to first Rotom form to eclipse Wash in usage, atleast since I can remember.

#9) Seismitoad :Seismitoad:
Toad has found its place on bulky offensive teams looking for a capable stealth rocker and reliable check to Dracovish all in one. I've used Seismitoad quite a bit, but I will admit I've been starting to lose the taste for it. Its pretty passive and easily worn down, but, I see it a hell of a lot, and dealing with it has become a key part of winning battles. #9th may seem pretty high considering its coming from ~16th, but its solid usage both before and after the Dynamax ban can definitely push it up.

#8 Aegislash :Aegislash:
A notable improvement for the once Uber, Aegislash has greatly appreciated not having to deal with Dynamaxed threats anymore. One of the most competent offensive Pokemon right now, I definitely expect this thing to rise to the top as the meta continues to develop around it.

#7 Clefable :Clefable:
Clefable wass fairly low last month, being sandwiched between shinier Fairy-types in Hatterene and Grimmsnarl. However, since then (and especially after the Dynamax ban) Clefable has really come into its own. LO Clef is a set that every team needs to be prepared for, because its coverage is fantastic and its hard to wear down. Not to mention the bulkier sets which have been making a comeback as of late. I hate to say it because I've been loving using Sylveon, but Clefable's defensive Magic Guard set sometimes seems like just a straight-up improvement. Clefable was around ~#13 last month, but I can definitely see it hitting the top 10. It seems like everyone is running this thing.

#6 Toxapex :Toxapex:
Its Toxapex.

#5 Ferrothorn :Ferrothorn:
Its Ferrothorn.

#4 Corviknight :Corviknight:
Already Top 5 before Dynamax got the boot, I think Corviknight is bound to maintain its high usage. A great pivot and check to big name threats, Corviknight seems like an inevitability on most teams in most team archetypes.

#3 Excadrill :Excadrill:
Its Excadrill.

#2 Darmanitan-Galar :Darmanitan-Galar:
It was a tough decision trying to decide whether or not this should take the #1 spot from Dragapult. While Darmanitan-Galar is certanly the more powerful of the duo, I think Dragapult's speed, coverage and versatility of sets will help it maintain the #1 spot. That said, we all know how incredible Darmanitan-G, and how dominate it has been both before and after the Dynamax ban.

#1 Dragapult :Dragapult:
Yes

Honorable Mentions:

:Ditto:Ditto: Obviously, Ditto is going to see a huge drop in usage. I still like Ditto and consider adding it to my team if I'm worried about set-up sweepers, like Dragapult, but its definitely no longer the absolute necessity that it was earlier this month. Its Dec. usage will definitely be inflated due to the suspect, but its definitely going to lose its #3 spot in favor of something more consistent.

:Dugtrio:Dugtrio: has been a real contentious threat lately, unsurprisingly. Now that Dynamax is gone it can much more reliably trap its targets, which is a huge boon for both offense and stall. For a Pokemon who, last month, was teetering on the edge, Dugtrio will dig its way comfortably into OU, and will probably hit the top #10 by the end of the month... provided its not banned by then.

:Hydreigon:Hydreigon: Hydreigon is big big threat, but I'm not sure it will break the top #10. Definitely will hover around there, though.

:Bisharp:Bisharp has been coming up since the Dynamax ban, with less Pokemon to absorb its Steel + Dark coverage. It was fairly low on the usage stats last month, teetering on the edge right there with Togekiss, but I am definitely expecting a large jump at the turn of the decade.

Anyone else have any predictions? Would like to hear your thoughts. I'll probably revisit this post in a few weeks when the usage stats drop, hopefully I'm not too off the mark.
December Usage stats are up!

OU (1695 stats)
Code:
Combined usage for OU (1695 stats)
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Percent |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| 1 | Dragapult | 39.262% |
| 2 | Corviknight | 34.130% |
| 3 | Darmanitan-Galar | 32.192% |
| 4 | Seismitoad | 28.347% |
| 5 | Excadrill | 26.844% |
| 6 | Ferrothorn | 23.813% |
| 7 | Clefable | 23.664% |
| 8 | Hydreigon | 20.204% |
| 9 | Ditto | 19.421% |
| 10 | Toxapex | 18.645% |
| 11 | Rotom-Heat | 17.634% |
| 12 | Aegislash | 16.929% |
| 13 | Hatterene | 15.906% |
| 14 | Cinderace | 15.198% |
| 15 | Mandibuzz | 14.936% |
| 16 | Dracovish | 14.245% |
| 17 | Grimmsnarl | 12.191% |
| 18 | Rotom-Wash | 11.159% |
| 19 | Tyranitar | 10.998% |
| 20 | Toxtricity | 10.151% |
| 21 | Conkeldurr | 10.149% |
| 22 | Bisharp | 8.680% |
| 23 | Dugtrio | 8.411% |
| 24 | Corsola-Galar | 8.316% |
| 25 | Gyarados | 7.910% |
| 26 | Togekiss | 6.745% |
| 27 | Mimikyu | 6.189% |
| 28 | Pelipper | 5.594% |
| 29 | Kommo-o | 5.341% |
| 30 | Sylveon | 5.326% |
| 31 | Mew | 5.122% |
| 32 | Dracozolt | 4.869% |
| 33 | Obstagoon | 4.494% |
| 34 | Hawlucha | 4.433% |
| 35 | Jellicent | 4.162% |
| 36 | Barraskewda | 4.139% |
| 37 | Hippowdon | 3.759% |
| 38 | Cloyster | 3.613% |
| 39 | Crawdaunt | 3.446% |
| 40 | Gengar | 3.384% |
| 41 | Gastrodon | 3.369% |
| 42 | Snorlax | 2.867% |
| 43 | Vaporeon | 2.474% |
| 44 | Rotom-Mow | 2.398% |
| 45 | Ribombee | 2.156% |
| 46 | Centiskorch | 2.135% |
| 47 | Reuniclus | 2.132% |
| 48 | Polteageist | 2.065% |
| 49 | Avalugg | 1.764% |
| 50 | Sirfetch'd | 1.727% |
| 51 | Milotic | 1.723% |
| 52 | Chandelure | 1.630% |
| 53 | Mamoswine | 1.504% |
| 54 | Lucario | 1.353% |
| 55 | Copperajah | 1.337% |
| 56 | Diggersby | 1.284% |
| 57 | Mantine | 1.278% |
| 58 | Arcanine | 1.273% |
| 59 | Drednaw | 1.227% |
| 60 | Araquanid | 1.167% |
| 61 | Golisopod | 1.133% |
| 62 | Charizard | 1.127% |
| 63 | Weezing-Galar | 1.071% |
| 64 | Runerigus | 1.071% |
| 65 | Glalie | 1.014% |
| 66 | Indeedee | 0.958% |
| 67 | Duraludon | 0.943% |
| 68 | Coalossal | 0.933% |
| 69 | Galvantula | 0.920% |
| 70 | Salazzle | 0.873% |
| 71 | Pyukumuku | 0.853% |
| 72 | Sigilyph | 0.851% |
| 73 | Heliolisk | 0.841% |
| 74 | Rhyperior | 0.833% |
| 75 | Quagsire | 0.810% |
| 76 | Shuckle | 0.802% |
| 77 | Haxorus | 0.791% |
| 78 | Xatu | 0.779% |
| 79 | Durant | 0.753% |
| 80 | Torkoal | 0.752% |
| 81 | Eldegoss | 0.741% |
| 82 | Gardevoir | 0.715% |
| 83 | Appletun | 0.643% |
| 84 | Pincurchin | 0.606% |
| 85 | Whimsicott | 0.592% |
| 86 | Goodra | 0.591% |
| 87 | Steelix | 0.573% |
| 88 | Morpeko | 0.509% |
| 89 | Frosmoth | 0.484% |
| 90 | Shiftry | 0.479% |
| 91 | Eiscue | 0.472% |
| 92 | Alcremie | 0.469% |
| 93 | Bewear | 0.469% |
| 94 | Sandaconda | 0.452% |
| 95 | Roserade | 0.440% |
| 96 | Flygon | 0.428% |
| 97 | Lapras | 0.425% |
| 98 | Machamp | 0.415% |
| 99 | Vanilluxe | 0.406% |
| 100 | Vikavolt | 0.395% |
| 101 | Orbeetle | 0.388% |
| 102 | Flareon | 0.382% |
| 103 | Rillaboom | 0.374% |
| 104 | Umbreon | 0.370% |
| 105 | Gigalith | 0.360% |
| 106 | Flapple | 0.358% |
| 107 | Noivern | 0.352% |
| 108 | Bronzong | 0.350% |
| 109 | Ludicolo | 0.336% |
| 110 | Falinks | 0.324% |
| 111 | Dhelmise | 0.321% |
| 112 | Toxicroak | 0.319% |
| 113 | Weavile | 0.313% |
| 114 | Inteleon | 0.309% |
| 115 | Ninetales | 0.305% |
| 116 | Mr. Rime | 0.289% |
| 117 | Tsareena | 0.280% |
| 118 | Braviary | 0.277% |
| 119 | Espeon | 0.276% |
| 120 | Arctozolt | 0.268% |
| 121 | Cursola | 0.262% |
| 122 | Jolteon | 0.252% |
| 123 | Indeedee-F | 0.250% |
| 124 | Cinccino | 0.228% |
| 125 | Froslass | 0.227% |
| 126 | Gallade | 0.225% |
| 127 | Hitmontop | 0.225% |
| 128 | Boltund | 0.221% |
| 129 | Rapidash-Galar | 0.199% |
| 130 | Shedinja | 0.188% |
| 131 | Cramorant | 0.184% |
| 132 | Malamar | 0.181% |
| 133 | Octillery | 0.174% |
| 134 | Claydol | 0.172% |
| 135 | Rotom-Fan | 0.162% |
| 136 | Grapploct | 0.161% |
| 137 | Accelgor | 0.148% |
| 138 | Drapion | 0.144% |
| 139 | Arctovish | 0.130% |
| 140 | Dusclops | 0.125% |
| 141 | Sableye | 0.123% |
| 142 | Silvally-Steel | 0.123% |
| 143 | Dubwool | 0.120% |
| 144 | Hitmonlee | 0.116% |
| 145 | Pangoro | 0.116% |
| 146 | Scrafty | 0.113% |
| 147 | Cofagrigus | 0.112% |
| 148 | Passimian | 0.106% |
| 149 | Butterfree | 0.102% |
| 150 | Togedemaru | 0.101% |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +

Seems my rankings were a little off. Though I was right with Clefable being #7. That's a win in my book.
A couple of notable things, I think:

:Seismitoad: Toad is a looot higher than I expected. Can't help but wonder if this is indictive of how good it is or how threatening Dracovish is.

:Hydreigon: I wasn't expecting it to be higher than Aegislash, honestly. However, I'd say it's bound to continue rising now that Darmanitan-G is banned.

:Gyarados: Gyarados has fallen quite a bit, from top 10 in November to 25th this month.

:Sylveon:Sylveon, :Kommo-o:Kommo-o and :Mew:Mew also rose from UU, and I'd expect all of them to continue rising next month, honestly.
 
Discussion that came out of the VR thread, but since I'm less interested in the actual rank - and more importantly, finding good replays is a pain - I'll just post it here cause it's about a fun mon that got really underrated in favour of options that aren't really better at much imo:



I strongly disagree with that, actually.

Flareon's issues are numerous, but the easiest one to note is still the same as always: its stats spread is godawful. It has the unholy trifecta of bad HP stat, bad phys def and bad speed. And that makes it super troublesome to pick it for the advantages you are quoting. No HP is obviously a no go as you need the investment to actually check the things somewhat decently and pass wishes that don't get wasted by hazards, no attack means that no you're not actually hitting harder than Arcanine, and no speed means you can't really outpace anything and leaves yourself open to many wallbreakers, ironically amongst them would be Clefable.

Arcanine meanwhile, benefits largely from a superb stats spread rn, and especially with regards to speed. I don't think it's necessarily good to portray Arcanine as a Clefable counter; rather it's a more than decent check to it that also outpaces significant threats like Excadrill, Gyarados, all Rotoms, Lucario, speed ties with Obstagoon... It can burn other threats like CB Dracovish / Dracozolt, Tyranitar if you're not running CC, Mandibuzz, that sort of thing. And all of that can be done with far more moveslots flexibility due to the nature of Wish needing protect, and very importantly far better flexibility on investment. Oh and also ability flexibility is pretty dope, as Intimidate boots its natural bulk significantly and Flash Fire is ok for offensive purpose too

To me Arcanine has been a pleasant surprise in this tier, as the offensive set with boots benefits highly from its natural attributes and doesn't need much tinkering. I also can't say I really thought about using Flareon or Centiskorch in its place either, as both mons, like I said above, are just dumb slow and don't actually check the things better to such a degree that I would want to waste all the good options Arcanine provides for them.
I think you're misunderstanding me here. There's no denying that Arcanine is an all-around better Pokemon than Flareon. But we're talking specific niches here. Flareon's niche is to check special hitters like Clefable. In this one specific niche, it is superior to Arcanine due to higher special defense, attack, and recovery that isn't neutered by weather and can be spread to teammates. Outside of this niche, you are correct that Arcanine is better in every way, but outside of this niche, comparing to Flareon is irrelevant. Arcanine instead has to compare to everything else in the tier, and it's just an unfortunate case of jack of all trades that's outclassed by other options.
 
Shoutouts to Jordy for showing me this a few days ago.

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Dark Pulse
- Flash Cannon
- Draco Meteor

This set is 100% busted. Every defensive Pokemon that was once considered a good check to this thing is now no longer. Unless we are talking like, max max Sylveon, which still takes an absolute fuck load from this thing. The last slot has a couple of options like Dragon Pulse/Fire Blast but imo the best is Draco. You have a chance to OHKO Mandi from FULL, SpDef Clef is OHKOed by Flash, Milo drops, and like stray fat Kommo-o can no longer check it. It's legit impossible to wall. Unless you play like a complete monkey you will get 1-2 kills vs balance minimum. They just don't have anything for it. Your only way is to offensively pressure it as much as possible and keep it from coming in. You don't even need a boost to punch massive holes into fat, but it can get plenty of opportunities to setup. Not like much can switch into LO Pulses/Dracos anyway. I think this is definitely the best Hydreigon set right now. Sub NP/Specs are cool but those have more reliable counterplay. This does not. Pair with Volt/turn and something like Specs Pult which can just snack afterwards.
Thanks for posting this set, I had been using a similar NP + 3 attacks set on a HO team I'm messing with but I hadn't actually considered meteor on it. The KO on Mandibuzz is really great, I'll definitely give this a try.
 

TPP

FINCHTOUR30
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I'll post the OU usage stats just for the mons that survived the cutoff for OU. The full stats can be found in chimp's post above. I'll put the visual (credit goes to kalolokki) below as well and then talk about a few changes.

Code:
Combined usage for OU (1695 stats)
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Percent |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| 1 | Dragapult | 39.262% |
| 2 | Corviknight | 34.130% |
| 3 | Darmanitan-Galar | 32.192% |
| 4 | Seismitoad | 28.347% |
| 5 | Excadrill | 26.844% |
| 6 | Ferrothorn | 23.813% |
| 7 | Clefable | 23.664% |
| 8 | Hydreigon | 20.204% |
| 9 | Ditto | 19.421% |
| 10 | Toxapex | 18.645% |
| 11 | Rotom-Heat | 17.634% |
| 12 | Aegislash | 16.929% |
| 13 | Hatterene | 15.906% |
| 14 | Cinderace | 15.198% |
| 15 | Mandibuzz | 14.936% |
| 16 | Dracovish | 14.245% |
| 17 | Grimmsnarl | 12.191% |
| 18 | Rotom-Wash | 11.159% |
| 19 | Tyranitar | 10.998% |
| 20 | Toxtricity | 10.151% |
| 21 | Conkeldurr | 10.149% |
| 22 | Bisharp | 8.680% |
| 23 | Dugtrio | 8.411% |
| 24 | Corsola-Galar | 8.316% |
| 25 | Gyarados | 7.910% |
| 26 | Togekiss | 6.745% |
| 27 | Mimikyu | 6.189% |
| 28 | Pelipper | 5.594% |
| 29 | Kommo-o | 5.341% |
| 30 | Sylveon | 5.326% |
| 31 | Mew | 5.122% |
| 32 | Dracozolt | 4.869% |


I'll put the previous month's usage stats below just to make it easy for us to compare them:

Code:
 + ---- + ------------------ + --------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Usage %   | Raw    | %       | Real   | %       |
+ ---- + ------------------ + --------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- +
| 1    | Dragapult          | 34.77819% | 921374 | 35.663% | 660270 | 34.170% |
| 2    | Darmanitan-Galar   | 34.63651% | 845528 | 32.727% | 639910 | 33.117% |
| 3    | Ditto              | 33.01591% | 485493 | 18.792% | 324063 | 16.771% |
| 4    | Excadrill          | 32.75617% | 647707 | 25.070% | 503401 | 26.052% |
| 5    | Corviknight        | 32.13087% | 624516 | 24.173% | 464274 | 24.027% |
| 6    | Ferrothorn         | 28.40382% | 601620 | 23.286% | 499486 | 25.849% |
| 7    | Rotom-Wash         | 19.51660% | 346122 | 13.397% | 286766 | 14.841% |
| 8    | Gyarados           | 18.54957% | 386563 | 14.962% | 271719 | 14.062% |
| 9    | Hydreigon          | 17.63615% | 282357 | 10.929% | 212233 | 10.984% |
| 10   | Toxapex            | 17.42956% | 333812 | 12.921% | 262702 | 13.595% |
| 11   | Aegislash          | 15.62743% | 332485 | 12.869% | 241280 | 12.487% |
| 12   | Hatterene          | 15.49125% | 318647 | 12.334% | 238932 | 12.365% |
| 13   | Clefable           | 15.28517% | 162871 |  6.304% | 125676 |  6.504% |
| 14   | Grimmsnarl         | 13.80130% | 396861 | 15.361% | 297956 | 15.420% |
| 15   | Cinderace          | 13.63177% | 405609 | 15.700% | 304119 | 15.739% |
| 16   | Seismitoad         | 13.20005% | 162603 |  6.294% | 134726 |  6.972% |
| 17   | Corsola-Galar      | 12.69631% | 388387 | 15.033% | 311135 | 16.102% |
| 18   | Dracovish          | 12.43686% | 287527 | 11.129% | 218752 | 11.321% |
| 19   | Tyranitar          |  9.94552% | 210848 |  8.161% | 166683 |  8.626% |
| 20   | Mandibuzz          |  9.42030% | 115892 |  4.486% | 88759  |  4.593% |
| 21   | Toxtricity         |  9.22502% | 290826 | 11.257% | 205602 | 10.640% |
| 22   | Pelipper           |  7.76577% | 198975 |  7.702% | 178933 |  9.260% |
| 23   | Barraskewda        |  7.05556% | 251096 |  9.719% | 173026 |  8.954% |
| 24   | Conkeldurr         |  6.58137% | 140911 |  5.454% | 107156 |  5.546% |
| 25   | Hawlucha           |  6.27095% | 154211 |  5.969% | 105540 |  5.462% |
| 26   | Rotom-Heat         |  5.75952% | 87298  |  3.379% | 71794  |  3.715% |
| 27   | Dracozolt          |  5.66516% | 143643 |  5.560% | 105355 |  5.452% |
| 28   | Mimikyu            |  5.54591% | 97463  |  3.772% | 69012  |  3.572% |
| 29   | Dugtrio            |  5.43636% | 101633 |  3.934% | 77751  |  4.024% |
| 30   | Bisharp            |  5.33964% | 85092  |  3.294% | 61439  |  3.180% |
| 31   | Togekiss           |  5.29094% | 113864 |  4.407% | 84388  |  4.367% |
+ ---- + ------------------ + --------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- +


I won't go into as much detail before, but I'll try and talk about some notable rises/drops.

Rises

#5 (32.13%) > #2 (34.13%)
Corviknight gained a little bit more usage and is now sitting at the #2 spot. While Corviknight is getting more common thanks to the excellent utility it provides, it may also be fair to say that it rose to #2 because the mons in between it and Dragapult (Darmanitan, Ditto and Excadrill) dropped in usage a bit.

#16 (13.20%) > #4 (28.34%)
Seismitoad took a huge jump in usage stats and it is largely because of how it is a great Stealth Rock user that provides key defensive utility, most notably being able to switch into Rotom-Heat and both Dracovish and Dracozolt.

#13 (15.28%) > #7 (23.66%)
Clefable started getting more traction as a wallbreaker thanks to its Life Orb set, and now it is one of the best utility mons, being able to set Stealth Rock, act as a switch into special threats like itself and Dragapult, and provide Wish support to heal up itself and teammates in a single slot.

#26 (5.76%)> #11 (17.63%)
Rotom-Heat gained usage due for both offensive and defensive reasons. Offensively it can pose a huge threat with Nasty Plot + Overheat + Volt Switch/Discharge, which has a rather good matchup against the common defensive backbone of Seismitoad + Clefable + Corviknight. Defensively, it can switch into Clefable, Corviknight and the recently banned Darmanitan. From there it would have an opportunity to set up and deal massive damage to whatever switches in.

#32 (4.42% and previously not OU by usage) > #29 (5.34%)
Kommo-o can be found on hyper offense teams using a Clangorous Soul + 3 attacks set. Kommo's typing and natural bulk can create set up opportunities against threats like Rotom-Heat, while its abilities, Bulletproof and Soundproof, may allow it to set up against Choice Specs Aegislash/Dragapult locked into Shadow Ball or Toxtricity/Sylveon respectively. Kommo-o can also run a defensive set in order to provide Stealth Rock that can check Excadrill, Sub + Nasty Plot Hydreigon, and prevent Ferrothorn from staying in thanks to Body Press. It may also switch into Dracovish's Fishious Rend if necessary.

#64 (1.35% and previously not OU by usage)> #30 (5.326%)
Sylveon gained usage in order to help teams against special attackers, most notably Life Orb Clefable, Dragapult, and Hydreigon. Sylveon, unlike Clefable, can bypass Substitute in order to hit Hydreigon, who commonly runs Substitute on its main set, and Dragapult, who uses Sub + Hex as one of its regular sets. Sylveon does have higher special defense than Clefable, allowing it to tank hits from Dragapult and Hydreigon with a little more easily than Clefable.

#37 (3.52% and previously not OU by usage) > #31 (5.122%)
Mew can make be a good dual hazard setter on hyper offense teams, as it gained access to Spikes this generation. It can Taunt opposing Defog users to keep hazards up and then Self-destruct to prevent a Rapid Spin/Defog. Alternatively, it may use Flare Blitz to pressure Excadrill and use Red Card to phase out threats like Excadrill and Dragapult.

Drops

#3 (33.01%) > #9 (19.42)
Ditto took a huge hit with dynamax being banned, as that previously increased the chances of Ditto encountering an opposing sweeper to abuse by a significant amount. Due to Darmanitan running Scarf as a common set, Ditto would have to win a speed tie against it in order to revenge kill it, which made it a little less reliable as well. Overall, less offensive sweepers to abuse has led to Ditto's usage dropping and it may be a continuing trend.

#7 (19.51%) > #18 (11.15%)
Rotom-Wash having competition with the superior Rotom-Heat along with being unable to bypass Seismitoad itself has caused it to lose quite a bit of usage. While it can use Sub + Nasty Plot + Dark Pulse to abuse and set up against Seismitoad, the potential of that set is far lower than the Nasty Plot sets of both Rotom-Heat and Rotom-Mow. Rotom-Heat and Rotom-Wash cannot be run on the same team, and Rotom-Heat providing better offensive and defensive utility have resulted it in, not Rotom-Wash, being the best Rotom form in OU.

#8 (18.54%) > #25 (7.91%)
Gyarados went from a top level threat to a decent sweeper with the loss of dynamax. Gyarados needing to use 2 turns to attack with Bounce with significantly less power than Max Airstream makes it far easier to handle defensively, and much harder to get a lot of value out of offensively.

#23 (7.05%) > #36 (4.14% and no longer OU by usage)
Barraskewda being unable to provide its own rain through Max Geyser lowered it's viability and caused it to decline in usage a bit. While it may be the fastest mon in the tier under rain, it struggles immensely with getting KO's as every team that prepares for Dracovish will most likely have indirectly prepared for Barraskewda. The most common example would be Seismitoad, who is extremely common at this point in time.

#25 (6.27%) > #34 (4.43% and no longer OU by usage)
Hawlucha is another mon that lost a lot of potential from dynamax being banned. Before, it could KO Toxapex and Aegislash with Max Quake, and could boost its own Attack and Speed with Max Knuckle and Max Airstream respectively. It was also immune to Ditto punishing it, and this caused it to be a very dangerous threat in the tier. However, it currently struggles with breaking Toxapex and Aegislash, and has to rely on White Herb with Close Combat to activate Unburden, which may not be the easiest thing to do at times.

As usual, I'll leave some questions below:

1. How do you guys feel about the usage stats?
2. Outside of the ones I discussed above, are there any rises/drops that you expected or think are noteworthy?
3. Do you have an idea as to why other mons are higher in usage and why others have decreased or increased usage?
4. Which mons do you think will continue rising and which mons will continue dropping?
 

Estronic

juiced up
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Although the usage stats say otherwise, I don’t see Togekiss being as high in usage in the future. It’s whole thing was how amazing it was at taking advantage of Dynamax. The combination of Nasty Plot and spamming Max Airstream was very overwhelming, not to mention its really good coverage it has, not to mention Air Slash spam being even more annoying with its chance to flinch. Without Dynamax, there’s just better Pokémon to fulfill the role it would be playing in the current metagame. I could potentially see it keeping somewhat afloat with Choice Scarf, but I definitely think it’ll be falling off pretty soon.
 

Floss

COYS!
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2. Outside of the ones I discussed above, are there any rises/drops that you expected or think are noteworthy?
One that caught my eye was an increase in the usage of Conkeldurr. It increased in usage by 3.5%, indicating that more people view it as a threat. In conjunction with the drop of Galarian Corsola by more than 4% (from 12.7% to 8.3%), as well as the lack of Jelli usage set to be compounded by the Darm-G ban, Conk has the chance to assert itself as a real threat. It can freely switch into Mandibuzz (one of the two popular Defoggers in the meta) and prevent it from Roosting with the threat of Drain Punch, while also threatening popular hazard setters such as Seismitoad and Ferrothorn. With Mach Punch, it can force out Hydreigon and Excadrill, and the threat of Facade forces the opponent to decide whether they want to risk switching their Fairy in. Relevant calcs below -

252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mandibuzz: 204-241 (48.1 - 56.8%) -- 89.8% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sylveon: 249-294 (63.1 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 232-274 (58.8 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 344-408 (95 - 112.7%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 252-296 (77.5 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 240-283 (75.7 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
I ran into this set on the OU ladder and was really caught off guard by it and was super impressed as it picked apart my top tier defensive core with ease, so I started playing around with it and boy is it actually pretty damn good! Now that Dynamax is gone this set seems like a real threat to a lot of the top tier defensive cores:

Golurk @ Assault Vest
Ability: Klutz
EVs: 252 HP/ 56 Atk / 136 SpD / 64 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Trick
- Earthquake
- Heat Crash
- Heavy Slam



Tricking Assault Vests onto defensive Pokemon never gets old, trust me. Besides being great fun to use and kind of bulky in it's own right (even with it's unfortunate number of common weaknesses) Golurk also has the capability to pressure or take out other key defensive Pokemon after crippling whichever one you decide was the biggest threat to your offensive team with Trick:

Calcs:

56+ Atk Golurk Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 162-192 (53.2 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

56+ Atk Golurk Heat Crash (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 192-228 (54.5 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

56+ Atk Golurk Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 210-248 (53.2 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

56+ Atk Golurk Heat Crash (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 76+ Def Corviknight: 162-192 (40.5 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
56+ Atk Golurk Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 76+ Def Corviknight: 242-288 (60.5 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (if it dares to Roost)

The EVs above are to speed creep and ensure the 2HKO on even the bulkiest physically defensive Clefable, as this would allow me to deal with teams running both Corviknight and Clefable more easily.

I don't think this will be exactly meta-defining, but I think that it's a unique and certainly interesting niche that another player can probably exploit much better than I can, so I'm putting the idea out there just in case someone else wants to run with it. Sorry if this was the wrong thread for this.
 
Last edited:
Weavile

Weavile @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Throat Chop
- Ice Shard
- Low Kick​

One of the new key players on my team as of late since the nuke of G-Darm (RIP). There is nothing in OU that resists all of Weavile's coverage. STAB Ice / Dark + Ice Priority is absolutely incredible in the Ghost / Mandibuzz / Hydreigon infested metagame. Icicle Crash in particular is powerful enough to where would be answers like Clefable don't want to switch into it. Throat Chop has the added benefit of completely shutting down Toxitricity's Punk Rock boosted STAB Overdrive and Punk Rock Boomburst, Sylveon's Pixilate boosted Hyper Voice, any of Kommo-O's Clangorus moves (preventing it from setting up), and any Pokemon with the dreaded Bug Buzz + has 10 more base power than Night Slash. Pokemon like Ferrothorn, Copperajah, Bisharp, etc are afraid to switch into Low Kick. Ice Shard allows you to pick off Pokemon like Dragapult, and weakened set-up sweepers. Jolly nature is for doing stuff like outspeeding Dugtrio, with LO the neutral Attacking nature still hits hard thanks to base 120 attack (same as Dragapult I'd like to add).
 
Last edited:
Hi all,

Still getting to grips with this meta but really happy to see Sylveon climb. I was running the standard Wish/Protect/HV/MF set until recently. For me, MF is just underwhelming. You don't really need the fire coverage, so I've started running Fake Tears as the 4th move. This forces switches, allowing you to wishpass, or heal yourself, or even drop the SpD of something coming into your Sylveon.

Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Hyper Voice
- Wish
- Fake Tears
 
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