Pet Mod SS OU Theorymon (Completed)

[Voden]

:i really like this, i wish megas were still around.
: good, not much to say
: BASED, Speed Boost goes HARD, discount edgequake w rock slide is really hard to wall after a SD.
: I don't get why early bird? for Rest sets? idk but Slack Off goes hard.
: Cool, Beast Boost boosting def could be cool, maybe even too annoying sets.

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

entei the mon who now fucks over half the tier with sacred fire burns cuz now +2 entei just nukes half the tier as usual with burns

 

[koista12]

Mega Altaria returns from the grave with a vengeance - this time with 110 Speed and Fire/Fighting coverage. Seriously though, this is much better than Dragon/Psychic. Notably improved match ups defensively include Landorus, Zeraora, Urshifu-R, Garchomp, Moltres-G, Hydreigon, Blacephalon, and especially Zarude and Dragapult. No more will Latias get bopped by Knock Offs or oblicerated by Shadow Balls. I think Latias can actually leverage its massive SpD to contribute to defensive cores rather than being a Defog bot. Offensively, Moonblast is obviously much better than Draco or Psychic, meaning you can run either Aura Sphere or Mystical Fire alongside Moonblast, and still have two moveslots for any utility.

All that said, Latias still has downsides. Losing STAB on Stored Power makes its weakness policy set a lot less reliable. It cant carry all the coverage options it wants to break through balance, and its best coverage options are actually the weakest. And while Dragon/Fairy is a much better typing than Dragon/Psychic, it still has issues with Fairies, and darks like Weavile and Bisharp can get around its Knock Off resistance.


An old favorite from Gen 6 theorymon, where it made S-rank on the viability rankings. Things are a little different now though. Burn damage is halved compared to Gen 6, which is massive. The chip you accumulate on your checks just doesn't come close to what it used to be. On the flip side, Defog is more widely distributed meaning you have more opportunities to come in and get a boost than the lati twins and zapdos. Additionally, Heavy Duty Boots is a far better item imo for Entei when it wants to be switching in midgame when both sides likely have hazards. Being able to E-speed a defogger and then Sacred Fire the turn after is an appealing prospect. Overall I do think this a lot weaker this Gen due to the burn nerf, and I dont think this will be quite as good as Raikou, who has a much better speed tier and key resistances.

I'll do the others later

 

[Cratersmash]

Makes it quite a decent answer to Zarude.Pretty nice.
Make Corv worse!Yaaaaay!Anyways,makes this thing pretty good.
hmmm,idk
Immunity+160/65/110 bulk+Recovery.Hmmmm.

Snorlax Vs Blissey

0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Snorlax: 211-249 (45.7 - 54%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blissey: 625-736 (96 - 113%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Snorlax in Electric Terrain: 142-168 (30.8 - 36.4%) -- 57.8% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blissey in Electric Terrain: 118-141 (18.1 - 21.6%) -- possible 5HKO

On top of this,it has 110 Attack+Body Slam.I don’t think I like this.
I don’t like this change,not because of an actual reason,but because I hate Celesteela as it is.

 

[VoolPool]

solid buff that will help latias a quite a bit as now it resists dark and is immune to dragon, eliminating two pretty big weaknesses for it. Scarf sets would see more usage as they provide more defensive utility now with being able to check chomp and hydreigon amazingly, but I feel as cm or defog sets would be used even more as you can get free turns on a lot of the Pokémon in their tier rn. Like lando, chomp. hydreigon, zarude some dnite sets, and rillaboom just to name a few.


Oh entei, seems like an ok buff but it could get annoying as surprisingly not much wants to switch in and those who do wanna switch in would hate burns. Still struggles with it's main core problems in ou but hey now you screw over defoggers even more! And L + ratio cause fini still hardwalls this shit and blocks any burns it wants to give. But besides that, I think it'd be a fine defog deterrent.


looks insane tbh speed boost is a broken ability paired with sd and 110 attack could make it a niche choice on screens as it also provides a nice electric immune. Steel birds will give it a pretty hard time though, so support like magnezone or another pokemon that wears down its checks will be needed to sweep instead of just plowing through teams like mega blaziken.


woo more fat normal types. A much less passive version of blissey that's also very dummy thicc on the special side. I find it funny that early bird basically like the opposite of its flavor, but that would be a huge buff to rest sets as you wont need to rely on sleeptalk as much to stay in the action. rest+curse sounds like a pain to kill if it can manage to 2 or 3 curses up. And yeah there's also slack off which would pair really well with immunity sets as you woidlnt need rest to get rid of your status anymore. Seems like it would be a solid B+ pick on paper as it's curse sets looks very threatening for some teams to face.


Tbh idk my stance on this but seems kinda iffy not really broken just like eh, do we really want to face this?

 

[Madam Monette]

Defiant Entei For Sure. Although, these idea pitches are all pretty solid.

 

[Ardy]

Snorlax Vs Blissey

0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Snorlax: 211-249 (45.7 - 54%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Blissey: 625-736 (96 - 113%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Snorlax in Electric Terrain: 142-168 (30.8 - 36.4%) -- 57.8% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blissey in Electric Terrain: 118-141 (18.1 - 21.6%) -- possible 5HKO

On top of this,it has 110 Attack+Body Slam.I don’t think I like this.

I think these calcs are misleading. Comparing anythings physdef vs blissey will make it seem like a defensive behemoth, Bliss literally has 10 defense. Snorlax also lacks the pure utility of Blissey. Lando is also a p bad example to use here, as sp.def lando is not very good in this meta. A better calc that more clearly shows its place in the meta would be this:

252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Zarude Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Snorlax: 483-568 (104.7 - 123.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Zarude Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Snorlax: 684-806 (130.5 - 153.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO



+2 252 SpA Raikou Aura Sphere vs. 0 HP / 0+ SpD Snorlax: 270-318 (58.5 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Guts Obstagoon Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Snorlax: 432-510 (93.7 - 110.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Snorlax: 398-468 (86.3 - 101.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

Of course, you can and will EV for bulk, but unless you want to leave yourself overly passive, this thing will always take hits less well than you want it to. Lets also not forget that it has to find turns to set up curses in the first place, which is p hard to do in a meta like this, and, even once it does, Mudsy kinda just walls it.

+1 252 Atk Snorlax Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mudsdale: 135-159 (33.4 - 39.3%) -- 11.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Im open to the suggestion that Lax is broken, but calcing its physdef vs blissey was just not the way to show it.

 

[G-Luke]

very cool.


Overhyped.


Broken on Screens


Beefy. Nothin like Blissey at all though.


Based.

My votes will be -> +

Actual Discussion and Analysis

Later

 

[shnowshner]

finally good subs. RIP my PH toad

I like this as a supplement to offense teams, not only is the STAB combo threatening, but Latias having a nice stat spread and gaining valuable coverage this gen is the real kicker. Fairy is so much better offensively and defensively on this mon; you could run this anywhere from a bulky defogger to a fast Choice spammer and it'd be great at both of those. More Zarude checks are also always welcome.

Good but I don't think it's needed. We have enough defog and Lando-T abusers as-is.

Between Megahorn, EQ, and Aqua Tail as coverage, this is very dangerous versus a lot of teams after it sets-up. I am biased and generally unfavorable towards HO builds so I don't want to have to add another matchup strain on builder.

Should have enough tools to work now, Slack Off is already a huge boon as it can actually serve as a potential Blace answer with Thick Fat, or just a wincon with its various slow setup builds. I don't this is a massive change but it makes running Lax a whole lot less of a meme.

SubSeed CM Air Slash Celesteela sounds like something from one of my nightmares. Surprisingly good submission.

 

[abismal]

Latias ///

im just going to say what's on my mind. I think it'd be cool as a defogger, Dragon/Fairy has some interesting resists and its also a type combination that doesn't exist on a normal pokemon. maybe it could run Earthquake to hit heatran, but i'd see it running thunderbolt too for toxapex, corviknight, tapu fini, and anything it can't touch with fairy STAB (pls change soul dew to match its new typing, i know that item probably never gets used but still)
Entei ///

I think entei could deserve a bit more. Extreme Speed + Sacred Fire is a nice combination, maaaybe if it was part normal too? Gives it a stronger Extreme Speed and it could work as a nice revenge killer. It'd also be nice for a ghost immunity. I'm almost more than positive this was done so it could be symmetrical to Raikou
Scolipede ///

everyone seems to be hyped abt this personally i dont know! I've seen a similar Bug/Ground scolipede put in some nasty work before so it'll be interesting seeing what this does. also im happy its bug/ground. I guess now it has more room for coverage, like it can do EQ, Rock Slide, Superpower or Megahorn. And defensively it'd still have Spikes
Snorlax ///

Early Bird's hype. Slack Off sounds terrifying just because its snorlax. It can now run Curse/Amnesia/Facade/Slack Off with Immunity to become beefy as hell and utilize burns or paralysis to its own advantage, and not worrying about chip from toxic.
Celesteela ///

Because of the way this thing is used, I don't see it as anything exciting

 

[ImpSquare]

The sleepy bear ran a tired hand past the trophies he earned through the generation. He was powerful, he was beloved, and now he couldn’t stand against the strongest titans.

The bear, even clawing his way fell to the ravages of time, only to be seen by a select few.

It was in the depths of the lowest tiers that the bear was met by a specter who offered the bear one last look at his home.

With broken body and heart the hungry bear beheld the Overused and what he saw angered him. He saw ghosts rampaging through the streets. He saw powerful breakers running off the rails, destroying all in their path.

The sleepy bear, with fire in his eyes, steel in his soul, and churros in his belly spoke four words to the specter of death.

“I am not done.”

 

[Gekokeso]

Essay time, cool subs this time

Ugh, I'm not exactly a fan of this thing but I will admit it really helps the metagame. Its typing makes it a really good defogger which is kinda needed right now, but it is it's calm mind sets that concern me, especially since it's a dragon type that switches into dragons, and a fairy type not scared of psychics. Should be really healthy for the meta though.

This makes entei an excellent mon that is way harder to check, and therefore provides a really good physical fire type for Ou. However I would seriously incline people to NOT vote this sub. At least not right now. I'm about to go offtopic but it is really important for people to understand why this guy is bad for the meta:

How competitive Raikou has impacted the metagame and why adding another competitive /defiant Mon has to wait for later.

When raikou made it through I thought little of it, just another electric type that would have extreme competition due to zapdos and Koko and would be b at best. I couldn't be more wrong.
Raikou has become a staple in a large amount of teams, with a particular preference in spike stack teams. With how omnipresent Defog is, raikou has become a massive threat that every team must respect not only in the builder, but even when fighting it. Raikou makes defogging an extremely stressful task, as with its coverage it can power through teams pretty easily.
Even outside of it's anti-defog fear, it is a pretty damn good Mon, with it's calm mind set being a really good sweeper and other sets like scarf and specs being enabled by its excellent stats.
The meta already is trying to adapt to raikou, if we add Entei on top of it, the meta could really get destabilised.

I would recommend leaving Entei for future slates, as it is a really nice Mon, but could be really toxic to add as long as our hazard removal options are as limited right now.

Words from the creator of this sub

As the one who submitted scolipede, it would be good for me to elaborate on it.

1. What makes Bug Ground scolipede good?
Scolipede is a Mon who is known for being a lower tier version of blaziken, sweeping teams with its swords dance set. In ou however, it's stab combination has always being terrible, so to buff it I decided to go with arguably one of the coolest unexplored typings: bug ground.

Bug ground is a fun combination that resists volt-turn, gives a rocks neutrality, and a really decent offensive typing.

This makes scolipede a better sweeper that no longer is limited to heavy duty boots and can do actual meaningful damage. It allows it to deal meaningful damage to walls like toxapex, heatran

Even then, this doesn't scolipede from running strictly swords dance sets as it has spikes to support its team.

Does that mean that scolipede is completely busted? Well, not really.

2.How to answer scolipede
As powerful as scolipede may look, it still suffers from a bit of 4mss. Its mandatory swords dance and earthquake slot makes it have to choose between superpower, rock slide, aqua tail and protect, which means that it cannot check everything. Loss of poison typing makes it vulnerable to toxic chip, and pretty much every sort of chip screws with it immensely, as does pretty much every other status.

Counterplay
Unaware as a whole completely screws scolipede, even clef can now reliably counter it as it loses its poison stab.
Completely walls scolipede and it is not like you are running something unviable, especially with how good buzz is in the meta ATM. Some other bugs like goli also do a good job.
Priority as a whole hits scoli hard, especially with its ice shard and aqua jet weakness.
All flying steels check it pretty good as well. Other flyings such as torn-t and lando also do a great job at checking it.

There is also the fact that it's frail as hell, so it needs the right conditions to make it into the field, as even if it beats things like pex or heatran after some boosts, scald burns annoy it and magma storm kills it. And that its strongest stab and coverage have shitty accuracy.

Overall scolipede is a fun Mon that makes uses
A cool typing effectively, and I hope that it at least get enough attention to make a comeback in a future slate.

Don't SLEEP on this Mon (hehe). No this is not just a shitty pun, snorlax is actually a pretty threatening sweeper when it has reliable recovery. Curse sets can actually be pretty had to take out one fighting types get out out of commission, but even then a curse can make it so that even most fighting attack don't ohko it, while delivering back some very annoying body slams. Add slack off to the mix and you got one of the most down right horrifying bulky sweepers in existence, with either thick fat to annoy mons like heatran or volcarona, or inmunity to never have to deal with toxic chip . I was actually the one who suggested marigold to consider early bird as an ability, and it does allow some extremely good sleep talk-less sets on it.

Because of the way this thing is used, I don't see it as anything exciting

I HATE STEELA I HATE STEELA I HATE STEELA

Edit: This goes regarding the removal of attack on scolipede on the submission. After seeing the amount of concern surrounding the Mon and doing some more calcs myself, I've come to realise how overoptimized scolipede becomes with the added attack and earthquake stab. I was on the erroneous belief that if the meta could handle blaziken well, it could handle scolipede. But the more I think about it, ground stab on earthquake is a significantly enough buff for the Mon. The added attack makes it a very one dimensional mon that can sometimes feel like a matchup fish, which is not necessarily something I would like the meta to endure, and I would not like for a mega like mine to make it through if a large part of the playerbase thinks it's too broken, as to not repeat the electvire situation. I do believe removing the attack buff is good enough to allow it to be a significant improvement while not pushing it over the edge, and that this sub will no longer become too unbearable for the meta.

 

[BriefMarigold4]

Dragon+Fairy+Levitate is so stupidly good defensively. It's also a fast Shifu counter that is not immediatly threatened out by U-Turn now. Being able to switch into Knock Offs is very nice too! Calm Mind-Moonblast-Mystical Fire-Roost/Surf sounds incredibly threatening, and Defog-TWave-Roost-Moonblast makes it a fast defogger that is not immediatly threatened out by Raikou; incredible sub!


Raikou got Competitive so you all had to give Entei Defiant huh? At least there are good Fire resists/immunities now, and Entei doesn't exactly have the best coverage. However, it has a very spammeable STAB and decent-ish speed. It also has a very good MU against most of the defogers in the tier. However, I can't say WHY I would need it on my team. Really good choice, but it still feels like it's lacking... something.


ayooOOOOO DUDE this sounds AMAZING. Bug/Ground is surprisingly good coverage. Ground covers Fire, Steel and Poison, while Bug covers Grass types. Getting an immunity to Electric is also very good; this paired with Rock Slide to take care of Flying types and Speed Boost to quickly snowball out of control would make it one of the best setup sweepers on HO and some more offensively oriented balances. It still has thin-paper bulk, but its STABs and offensive setup choices completely make up for it.


Snorlax has yearned for reliable recovery ever since its introduction, and now it's given the chance to finally get it! With max defense and max HP, Snorlax has Toxapex's physical bulk on both sides, while max SpD max HPhas more special bulk than what Buzzwole has for physical bulk.
Early Bird is very anti-thematic, I know: it's completely the opposite of what Snorlax is supposed to do. However, it allows people to play Snorlax on very different ways, since although Slack Off is more easy to control and doesn't leave you absurdly passive for 1 turn, it does make Snorlax incredibly vulnerable to status effects (except Poisoning if you're running Immunity). Slack Off Immunity, Slack Off Thick Fat, Rest Early Bird and, hell, even good ol' Rest Thick Fat feel like sets that would be on very different playstyles. We might finally get to see 3 attacks Rest/SlackOff Snorlax once again! Who knows what Snorlax could run, it's just very flexible.
I see this being paired commonly with Tapu Bulu and Rillaboom in Thick Fat sets, and Tapu Fini and Clerics in non-Immunity or non-Facade Slack Off sets. Thick Fat sets in general would be appreciated by Sun teams since Snorlax gets a STAB Heat Crash and a resistance to Water, while offering Sun a decent Fire type switch in that is not Pex. best sub out of the 5 you can't fight me


Calm Mind Automatize sounds crazy ngl, increase your bulk and power while not being rendered useless for two entire turns. Far from being one of my favorites sub as of now, tho.

My votes right now go for Latias and Snorlax.

also 252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Close Combat vs. +1 252 HP / 184 Def Snorlax: 438-516 (83.5 - 98.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[ViZar]

Servus, here are my thoughts that nobody asked for.



Replacing the not-so-good-anymore Psychic-type with Fairy is a really big buff, especially on something like Latias. It has its great offensive use for sure, but its defensive profile makes it really good. For starters, it checks Zarude, Garchomp, Landorus-T and Rillaboom while soft checking Kartana and Dragapult. It already checked Urshifu and Zeraora (to an extend) but know it doesn't have to fear U-turn and Knock Off respectively. It is really great for a Dragon to check other Dragons and also being immune to Ground. For the offensive side, While it still struggles with coverage, its new Fairy STAB allows it to hit more Pokemon and it can now afford to drop Draco Meteor on its sets.

Defensive differences

New vs. Old
+ Ground immunity for both


As we can see, it lost two crucial weaknesses in Ghost and Dark, while also loosing a weakness to U-turn and gaining an immunity to Dragon. It also trades a Psychic resistance for an Electric and Dark resistance, which is better for the overall meta. It is now weak to Poison and Steel, but aside from Nidoking and Melmetal, they aren't as common as Ghosts, Knock Offs and U-turns.

This Pokemon is honestly scary. It would've been probably fine with just a type change, but an attack boost makes it even scarier. While it looses a STAB to hit Clefable, Fini and Lele and loosing a valuable resistance to one of their STABs, its new STAB on Earthquake with the attack buff and a potential SD boost helps out with that. The only Pokemon that can check it reliably are Buzzwole and Corviknight and both can be overwhelmed since they also check stuff like Zarude, Garchomp, Lando and others. I have to be fair and mention that it will loose many oppotunities to set up SDs with its loss of a Fairy resistance and a new Water weakness, but when it manages to get a boost, it will be able to sweep many teams.

Calcs

vs
Old:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Scolipede Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Clefable: 577-681 (146.4 - 172.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Scolipede Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Clefable: 240-283 (60.9 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

New:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Scolipede Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Clefable: 411-484 (104.3 - 122.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Scolipede Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Clefable: 386-454 (97.9 - 115.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

vs
Old:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Scolipede Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 133-157 (33.3 - 39.3%) -- 17.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

New:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Scolipede Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 142-168 (35.5 - 42.1%) -- 89% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

vs
Old:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Scolipede Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ferrothorn: 335-395 (95.1 - 112.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Scolipede Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 140-166 (39.7 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Scolipede Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 253-298 (71.8 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

New:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Scolipede Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ferrothorn: 359-422 (101.9 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Scolipede Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 224-265 (63.6 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Scolipede Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 269-317 (76.4 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

vs
Old:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Scolipede Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hippowdon: 368-434 (87.6 - 103.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

New:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Scolipede Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hippowdon: 394-464 (93.8 - 110.4%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

vs
Old:
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Scolipede Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Landorus-Therian: 133-157 (34.8 - 41%) -- 71.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

New:
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Scolipede Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Landorus-Therian: 142-168 (37.1 - 43.9%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

vs
Old:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Scolipede Earthquake vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 348-411 (82.6 - 97.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

New:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Scolipede Earthquake vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 554-655 (131.5 - 155.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

vs
Old:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Scolipede Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Tapu Fini: 161-191 (46.8 - 55.5%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

New:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Scolipede Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Tapu Fini: 259-305 (75.2 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

vs
Old:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Scolipede Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 252-299 (82.8 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

New:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Scolipede Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 400-476 (131.5 - 156.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

vs
Old:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Scolipede Megahorn vs. 248 HP / 220 Def Zapdos: 191-226 (49.8 - 59%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Scolipede Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 220 Def Zapdos: 322-380 (84 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

New:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Scolipede Megahorn vs. 248 HP / 220 Def Zapdos: 204-242 (53.2 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Scolipede Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 220 Def Zapdos: 343-406 (89.5 - 106%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

I won't talk about since I find them boring ngl

I will probably vote for and , eventhough I just called it boring, but I don't want

That's it, gonna sleep now
Ciao Servus

 

[Ardy]

Gekokeso has requested that the +10 attack be removed from the Scolipede sub, so take that into consideration moving forward. I'll leave it to them to explain their reasoning (if needed).

Just so this isnt a one liner, Id just like to throw my support behind Latias. I think this mon will really be healthy for the meta we've set up here. For one, it is a fantastic check to the current Zarude and Raikou sets, and will probably replace Mandi as a defensive Zarude counter. Zarude can theoretically get around it by running Iron Tail, but that means it gives up either Close Combat, and is worse off against Ferro and Tran, or U-Turn, and losing its fantastic pivoting abilities. Similarly, Raikou can 2HKO Lati with Shadow Ball at +2, but this makes it necessary to drop Aura Sphere, leaving it walled by Zarude, or Scald, leaving it walled by every ground (realistically you arent dropping thunderbolt and you still want your choice of either CM or Volt Switch). However, as a defogger, it doesnt really beat any hazard setter 1v1, losing to Heatran, Ferro, Clef, and probably Mudsdale if it starts running Iron Head. I think its healthy in part because of how it forces the top dogs in the meta to adapt to it, while providing an insane amount of diversity in sets. I really, really like this sub, scorbunnys knocked it out of the park with this one.

 

[shadowpea]

first how did i not get pings for this at all since last month im only here because i remembered it existed lol

second Tapler and i managed to propel golisopod to first place last time i was here yaaaaaaay :D

now thoughts

just a generally a good buff since psychic these days isn't doing that much for anybody apart from breaking pex. fairy type and solid special bulk helps beat sooo much rn like lando, shifu, goliso, raikou, volcarona etc. beats zarude and cm sets uses it as fodder. however its still kinda weak and cm sets cannot run nearly enough coverage as it wants (it will prolly run cm+moonblast+roost leaving it with enough room for only one coverage option). pex only drops to psychic/tbolt, corvi to tbolt, heatran to aura, ferro isnt even 2hkoed by +1 252 aura and rips a large chunk off with gyro (if its not running gyro its in for a tough time but still). also, just use fini damnit, this thing gets toxicd by anything fat that it cant instantly kill (aka 90% of them). i do like it though, defensive support sets actually look nice with the vastly improved typing, scarf support sets aren't bad outside of the fact that they are weak af, specs can do considerable amounts of damage but is very very prediction reliant because latias's lack of power is very very noticable even if its specs. just dont run calm mind, use fini.

balls until you get your +2 in which case you fuck over half the tier with banded +2 sacred fire that has a 50% burnrate. do i really want this though? raikou is great already (i was right >:)) and gapdos has been rising for the past few weeks and now if entei is thrown in the hazards game is going to be a lot more tricky. not to mention, man, i dont want coinflip burn dog either on my team or my opponent's. sounds annoying af to play against and happy that it isnt ou viable rn so selfishly i dont want people to actually start using this thing. also it has espeed. yep.

like g-luke said this is just a menace on screens, you straight up just spam sd on whatever unlucky soul that you can set up on. on the other hand its still kinda frail behind screens but who cares if they cant ohko you (if they can tank you they cannot ohko you). quite a strong cleaner too, but rather useless before the endgame. sash will scare out heatran t1 to get 2 sds and autowin. basically its still funny but no longer a meme, and i say sure why not.

im sure anyone can dig up some theorymonning on snorlax with slack off wherever (mostly associated with "how the actual fuck does this thing not get slack off"). simply put, snorlax is now blissey but trades bulk for ability to actually hurt things. and thats what it will do, since it doesn't really get utitily that makes defensive mons worthwhile. curselax may be an actual viable wincon since its afraid of nothing fat (immunity woooooo) and even +1 body slam can and will really hurt. you still get broken by specs lele and a few other ridiculously strong breakers but aside from that you are set to do damage before going down.

fat cm sets are in the same camp as latias in that they are not strong enough and cannot have nearly enough coverage. and for something so slow its got longetivity issues. auto+cm looks cool though especially under screens which nets you more turns to set up and possibly weakness policies to abuse. coverage is still a problem, but airslash covers pretty much most of the tier, and with your kind of bulk and possibly screens support and wp boosts you don't need to take too much damage before becoming incredibly destructive. translation? goltres but probably better.

decent/good slate overall, vote probably goes to latias and literally anything besides entei, theyre all pretty nice, i just dont want to deal with sacred fire bs. peace.

 

[cheru]

Just gonna talk about the 2 I wanna throw out my support towards.

Latias gaining the Fairy typing and Moonblast is such as fitting theme for it, and its movepool also benefits from that typing excellently. Its access to both Aura Sphere and Mystical Fire is fantastic for dealing with those pesky Steel-types like Heatran and Corviknight. Choice Specs can act as an immediate breaker or revenge killer for fast threats like Weavile, Dragapult, and Choice Scarf Kartana. Even Calm Mind sets can be a dangerous wincon at the end once all its checks are weakned.

potential sets

Latias @ Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Moonblast
- Aura Sphere / Mystical Fire
- Trick / Healing Wish

Latias @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Moonblast
- Aura Sphere / Mystical Fire
- Roost

Latias @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Aura Sphere / Roost
- Mystical Fire / Roost

Thank God this didn't get the Attack boost as well, it would have been really shitty to check. Anyway, Scolipede gaining the Ground instead of Poison gives it much better STAB coverage and a slightly better defensive typing. The Ground resistance lets it set up on and its Stealth Rock neutrality. However, it does end up gaining a Water weakness, losing out on setup opportunities, but it can still OHKO it with a +2 Earthquake. It also does need additional support in to break through Corviknight and finding a way to pivot in safely. This will be a fine addition to the cycle.

All of the other ones felt really boring tbh.

 

[Ardy]

24 hour warning! Get in any last bits of discussion you want now!

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

I definitely shit posted on entei a while ago... but entei sounds good but sounds way more annoying than raikou as your counterplay esp if u defog with smth like torn-t, lando-t, corv, and zapdos you are really screwed over and playing a game of sack a mon at that point esp if entei is banded your counterplay is heatran, or phys def chomp cuz...

+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 131-155 (43 - 50.9%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Yeah.....

Ok... CM sounds better... defensively it handles pult, drei, zarude, raikou, and some more. CM sets are still going to be shit so its prob just going to be a fogger or some type of offensive set with offensive CM as the coverage on paper sounds nice, esp with aura sphere hitting steels for it.

This sounds scary... esp with phys def EV's it sounds like it can boost to a pretty good amount and flat out 6-0 some teams esp since pokemon like like corv, mandibuzz, zarude. Double dance sounds scary esp at +2+2 +2 with auto where it can run WP to even boost further

 

[lavarina]

time to vote!! as always, vote for the two pokemon you want to see in the metagame. you're also allowed to pick just one!​

 

[Beaf Cultist]

scolipede is nice and all, but i don't really want to play against it in the current meta. same with steela and entei, but even more.

 

[koista12]

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

God no i dont want to play against CF burn go brrr

 

[Gravity Monkey]

 

[ViZar]

&