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Pet Mod SS OU Theorymon (Completed)
- Thread starter Ardy
- Start date
almost voted for celesteela but remembered we already have skarm and corv man fts
lax bad tbh
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council can tiebreak pick the right one >:)
pls tiebreak
and with that, we have our newest additions to the mod! here is the tally !
latias: 16
scolipede: 7
celesteela: 5
snorlax: 6
entei: 2
now we're onto the next slate!
+ Drought + Morning Sun
+ Protean (replaces Cute Charm)
+ Corrosion (replaces Clear Body)
+ Rapid Spin
+ Dual Wingbeat + 10 Speed
as usual, discussion lasts for 5 days!
latias: 16
scolipede: 7
celesteela: 5
snorlax: 6
entei: 2
now we're onto the next slate!
as usual, discussion lasts for 5 days!
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overall this is one of my favorite slates so far and I’m excited to see how this one pans out!
Pelipper for Sun. Definitely a huge buff, but Sun still sucks even with it so lol.
I've been wondering when this was going to get slated. Very fun mon; lacks recovery but makes up for it by being one of the best status spreaders, period. Super scary against teams that rely on their Steels to be Toxic absorbers, and can really break open defensive cores if given the chance. Also gets spin, which is nice. Plus, if this gets in Merciless subs might actually be usable.
Pretty obvious why this was made. Just wanna say that this probably slots spin over rocks, since it isn't a particularly good rocker anyway.
Not feeling this one. My thoughts on it have mostly been stated already, so I'll just leave it at that.
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Beaf Cultist i just need u to know i rly rly did fight for ur pure power milotic
Wanted to drop thoughts:
what a great sub, Incineroar buffs sun in a great way by being a pivoting sun setter with respectable bulk and now with recovery. I think Incineroar fills an important role on sun teams as a spdef mon that can actually switchin to the likes of dragapult and most strong fire types like blace, heatran and more. I could see non sun sets work great as well as a regular bulky pivot.
I think the final 4 are very... meh
i don't know what protean does for this, losing it's weaknesses on recovery is something i guess but absolutely not something that would make milo viable. Pure power wouldve been cool whyyyyyyyyyyyyyy, i can only see this improving physical setup sets, which are bad. because it's milotic.
my biggest issue with this sub, while it's very cool seeing a defensive user of corrosion is, what teams are going to be running this? With offense being the main playstyle rn, Tentacruel doesn't really have time to abuse it's toxic spreading capabilities. The biggest thing about this sub is that it is an absolute stall killer, however it doesn't really offer a defensive profile that's useful in the current meta outside of checking fini and dragapult somewhat. I wouldn't use tenta over pex on most teams.
agree with walletinspector, kommo now has huge 4mss with spin/rocks/ID+Body Press/Flamethrower/EQ/tox all wanting to fit on regular bulky sets.
meh, gyara already has trouble choosing coverage options, i don't think dual wingbeat really helps it here
I'm definitely voting Incin, with second pick probably being between kommo and Tentacruel
what a great sub, Incineroar buffs sun in a great way by being a pivoting sun setter with respectable bulk and now with recovery. I think Incineroar fills an important role on sun teams as a spdef mon that can actually switchin to the likes of dragapult and most strong fire types like blace, heatran and more. I could see non sun sets work great as well as a regular bulky pivot.I think the final 4 are very... meh
i don't know what protean does for this, losing it's weaknesses on recovery is something i guess but absolutely not something that would make milo viable. my biggest issue with this sub, while it's very cool seeing a defensive user of corrosion is, what teams are going to be running this? With offense being the main playstyle rn, Tentacruel doesn't really have time to abuse it's toxic spreading capabilities. The biggest thing about this sub is that it is an absolute stall killer, however it doesn't really offer a defensive profile that's useful in the current meta outside of checking fini and dragapult somewhat. I wouldn't use tenta over pex on most teams. agree with walletinspector, kommo now has huge 4mss with spin/rocks/ID+Body Press/Flamethrower/EQ/tox all wanting to fit on regular bulky sets. meh, gyara already has trouble choosing coverage options, i don't think dual wingbeat really helps it hereI'm definitely voting Incin, with second pick probably being between kommo and Tentacruel
Ok.... what does protean accomplish for it defensively.... main move types it will use are poison, ice, normal, and maybe dragon (IDK). Offensively why use this when its not breaking through anything at all and just basically is another "FUCK YOU LANDO-T" with comp + hydro, ice beam, and mud shot maybe. Defensively why use this over marvel scale lol. Pex counter and general stall killer machine... like people forget stall generally runs clef or just can wear it down via knock off and status and it really is dead weight vs offense.... corrosion makes it so you can "lure in" your counters and poison them for other teammates to abuse... ok sounds nice on paper but ..... if they see it coming i doubt they would sack pex or smth like corv to it. ok.... it struggles with grass types but ice fang covers that and generally dual wingbeat wont be killing them especially at +2 esp since ferro has barbs and kart just ohko's it from full or revenges it....+10 speed is the thing i am looking at since with ada at 289 you now outspeed zera and pult which is pretty big especially on HO where it pretty much would need to run jolly otherwise to not be killed. I can see this having usage on HO but otherwise i dont see this being that useful esp the dual wingbeat
Huge buff to sun teams and idk what beef is talking about, sun rn is still pretty usable. Utility sets with intimidate also get semi reliabe recovery as well so that’s nice. Would have preferred morning sun and like parting shot to have been given to Torkoal though, since Incinenroar isn’t really known to be a sun setter and it already has its own niche. Pretty decent buff as you can now hit bulky grasses like tangrowth and bulu, so it sweeps don't get stopped by them as much if you can get some chip on them (like luring them in with zarude or rillaboom). sounds kind annoying to face, I don’t think this is the route we should take to buff tentacruel, doesn't sound particular very good though, just annoying we need more spinners and this is cool on belly drum sets, and hazard removal that doesn't let raikou in is pretty nice. I kind of disagree with what people are saying about it having extreme 4mms, cause each set is unique and it doesn't need to run all those moves to do what it wants most of the time, just options to run if your team is struggling against a certain mon/playstyle. Not sure what this does for it? Unless you wanna run a based offensive set like this:Milotic @ Choice Specs
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Dragon Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Flip Turn
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Dragon Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Flip Turn
avg i love you
Im in school rn so i won't talk about the two i liked i want to talk about the most yet.
I liked this a bit at first, but the more i thought about it, the more i realised im absolutely not a fan of this buff, but it can truely see it slightly benefiting sun teams with a another setter. Parting shot makes it a sun setter with pivoting options, and morning sun gives it more longevity. Does this mean that this makes incineroar the pelipper of sun? Absolutely not.
Personally i don't think icin does anything of what is mentioned above and that makes it a mediocre setter.
Alright so it took me a whole week but i think i gathered all my thoughts about tentacruel and, actually? I think i kinda like it. Its not that much of a buff but tentacruel didn't really have an ability that made it better at its job. Many people will bring up that it is just worse toxapex, but i would like to argue that tentacruel with merciless has a lot going on for it. While not being nearly as buly as pex, tentacruel has a respectable special bulk, as well as rapid spin in addition to a lot of the same tools that toxapex uses, such as haze and toxic spikes. Moreover, corrosion allows it to pressure steel types that otherwise annoyed it to hell, such as ferrothorn, heatran, and corvinight. Nothing game changing but a nice buff nonetheless.
. This thing sounds extremely irrelevant, even if milotic is somewhat good defensively with this, what purpose those it even bring to the metagame? Even coil sets are completely niche and lack a place in this meta.
I suppose the extra speed is nice but dual wingbeat is such a shitty STAB that barely solve the problems gyra has. Maybe harass grass types? Even then the aerilate buff was better even if i also didn't like it, but this buff doesn't help gyra enough.
Kommo-o is my child, so for it to be done this dirty with this buff is kinda sad. Sure, rapid spin helps with Raikou, Ferro and Zarude, but also doesn't help its 4mss syndrome, nor does it solve kommo-o's own issues in the meta. Doesn't help that the newly buffed Latias will nearly completely make it irrelevant.
Im in school rn so i won't talk about the two
I liked this a bit at first, but the more i thought about it, the more i realised im absolutely not a fan of this buff, but it can truely see it slightly benefiting sun teams with a another setter. Parting shot makes it a sun setter with pivoting options, and morning sun gives it more longevity. Does this mean that this makes incineroar the pelipper of sun? Absolutely not.People need to learn this as fast as possible, you cannot slap weather related abilities and expect them to be good at it. Lets clarify why.
Lets look into pelipper and what made it such a game changer that weather setters like gigalith, torkoal and ninetales (until this gen) were not when they were introduced. Its not just because rains brings more advantages than other weathers, no, its about what pelipper provides. Pelipper provides pivoting, which allows it to retain momentum, does that mean that all is needed to be a good setter is pivoting? No. Pelipper provides another key aspect to rain: a water type that can also threaten grass types from switching in/staying due to its flying type throwing out accurate hurricanes. It also posses defog, which it can fit to help its team even further. Pelipper provides actual advantage to rain teams which makes it useful in the team rather than just being a slot that provides the weather.
Now lets look into abusers with weather-related abilities and what they bring to the table:
Putting these three together since they are rain-based, but they have some really important differences about the usage. Let's start with mega swampert in gen 7 and gen 8 national dex. In these metas, Swampert is the biggest asset of the rain team, as it is what justifies running rain. It is an brutal sweeper with a high attack and a lot of speed under rain, providing a way to break through opposing team structures with its damage and speed control with its swift swim. It also provided a key aspect that actively helped its team instead of just speed and attack: A eletric neutrality. This meant that one of the key weakenesses of rain in electric types was an issue that rains would not struggle against. After its departure, Barraskewda and Seismitoad were able to provide each aspects that were previously covered by swampert. Seismitoad provided the needed electricity inmmunity and rocks support that pert gave before, while barraskewda provided the pure breaking power and speed control that made rain so threating, to the point of still being used on rain even in national dex alongside pert.
Arctozolt is to hail what swampert/barraskewda is to rain. Ninetales had always being a good hail setter with its previously exclusive aurora veil, but it had nothing to actually have hail be used. Arctozolt is the mon that catapulted hail to stardom. Sure, it lacks proper defensive utility so it doesn't help its team defensively that much, but zolt is able to accomplish what every slush rush mon before it had failed to do: break through bulky waters and other fat mons that walled hail relentlessly, as well as being a generally powerful mon thateither breaks holes on the opposing team or makes use of the holes created by its teammates to accomplishbrutal sweeps.
Excadrill may no be seeing the best of days these days, but it is crucial to remember what he used to be for sand for so long. Exca was a terrifying sweeper with its sand rush set, but that wasn't the only thing exca could provide. Exca itself is a fantastic mon even without having sand, which meant that sand would not be relying on a mon whose onlyworth was on sand. Excais also a pretty decent spinner which helps sand teams get rid of hazards, as well as set up rocks for the team.
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Lets look into pelipper and what made it such a game changer that weather setters like gigalith, torkoal and ninetales (until this gen) were not when they were introduced. Its not just because rains brings more advantages than other weathers, no, its about what pelipper provides. Pelipper provides pivoting, which allows it to retain momentum, does that mean that all is needed to be a good setter is pivoting? No. Pelipper provides another key aspect to rain: a water type that can also threaten grass types from switching in/staying due to its flying type throwing out accurate hurricanes. It also posses defog, which it can fit to help its team even further. Pelipper provides actual advantage to rain teams which makes it useful in the team rather than just being a slot that provides the weather.
Now lets look into abusers with weather-related abilities and what they bring to the table:
Putting these three together since they are rain-based, but they have some really important differences about the usage. Let's start with mega swampert in gen 7 and gen 8 national dex. In these metas, Swampert is the biggest asset of the rain team, as it is what justifies running rain. It is an brutal sweeper with a high attack and a lot of speed under rain, providing a way to break through opposing team structures with its damage and speed control with its swift swim. It also provided a key aspect that actively helped its team instead of just speed and attack: A eletric neutrality. This meant that one of the key weakenesses of rain in electric types was an issue that rains would not struggle against. After its departure, Barraskewda and Seismitoad were able to provide each aspects that were previously covered by swampert. Seismitoad provided the needed electricity inmmunity and rocks support that pert gave before, while barraskewda provided the pure breaking power and speed control that made rain so threating, to the point of still being used on rain even in national dex alongside pert.
Arctozolt is to hail what swampert/barraskewda is to rain. Ninetales had always being a good hail setter with its previously exclusive aurora veil, but it had nothing to actually have hail be used. Arctozolt is the mon that catapulted hail to stardom. Sure, it lacks proper defensive utility so it doesn't help its team defensively that much, but zolt is able to accomplish what every slush rush mon before it had failed to do: break through bulky waters and other fat mons that walled hail relentlessly, as well as being a generally powerful mon thateither breaks holes on the opposing team or makes use of the holes created by its teammates to accomplishbrutal sweeps.
Excadrill may no be seeing the best of days these days, but it is crucial to remember what he used to be for sand for so long. Exca was a terrifying sweeper with its sand rush set, but that wasn't the only thing exca could provide. Exca itself is a fantastic mon even without having sand, which meant that sand would not be relying on a mon whose onlyworth was on sand. Excais also a pretty decent spinner which helps sand teams get rid of hazards, as well as set up rocks for the team.
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Alright so it took me a whole week but i think i gathered all my thoughts about tentacruel and, actually? I think i kinda like it. Its not that much of a buff but tentacruel didn't really have an ability that made it better at its job. Many people will bring up that it is just worse toxapex, but i would like to argue that tentacruel with merciless has a lot going on for it. While not being nearly as buly as pex, tentacruel has a respectable special bulk, as well as rapid spin in addition to a lot of the same tools that toxapex uses, such as haze and toxic spikes. Moreover, corrosion allows it to pressure steel types that otherwise annoyed it to hell, such as ferrothorn, heatran, and corvinight. Nothing game changing but a nice buff nonetheless.
Should have fought harder
. This thing sounds extremely irrelevant, even if milotic is somewhat good defensively with this, what purpose those it even bring to the metagame? Even coil sets are completely niche and lack a place in this meta. I suppose the extra speed is nice but dual wingbeat is such a shitty STAB that barely solve the problems gyra has. Maybe harass grass types? Even then the aerilate buff was better even if i also didn't like it, but this buff doesn't help gyra enough. Kommo-o is my child, so for it to be done this dirty with this buff is kinda sad. Sure, rapid spin helps with Raikou, Ferro and Zarude, but also doesn't help its 4mss syndrome, nor does it solve kommo-o's own issues in the meta. Doesn't help that the newly buffed Latias will nearly completely make it irrelevant.
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