Metagame SS PU Alpha Discussion Thread

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MZ

Formerly Megazard
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PU Leader
It's been a long time coming but Gen 8 PU is finally here! We're looking forward to bringing that same low tier charm into the 8th generation, starting now with PU Alpha. A reminder of how this works- Alpha has no bans, no suspects, no changes. It will likely not be the best representation of what PU looks like going forward, as we receive and lose/ban different Pokemon as the metagame progresses. But, for the next month, this is what PU looks like, and I hope we can make it to beta smoothly.

This thread is for initial metagame interpretations and observations, team sharing, and whatever else you might feel is relevant to PU Alpha. NO ONE-LINERS. If you can't put even a slight bit of effort into a take it will get deleted. And again, there are no bans during alpha, but that doesn't mean we don't want to know what you think might deserve one once we get to beta.

If you're just getting into PU now, you'll be wanting the usage stats thread where everything below 4.52% usage in NU is PU, as well as our SS PU Alpha Viability List.

I would also like to remind people that newly released Pokemon start in OU and work their way down each month. That means that right now there are several Pokemon in UU that released with Pokemon Home which have a decent chance to end up here in another 3 months- including Alolan Persian, Weezing, Stunfisk, Alolan Raichu, Corsola, and Rapidash.
 
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If im correct, this is the first time in any generation, Drought is allowed, we making history lol. I am excited for this gen PU. Arctovish is here praying on your lack of Water resists (theres plenty of) and Wartortle with Shell Smash will be memey but fun. Also Arena Trap Trapinch + Drought Vulpix is gonna be fun and amazing. heres to a good Alpha.

Already made a team for sun so if you want to use this team you can to use sun
PU Sun.png

First day team is fun and will play more. I am so excited for PU

Investment on Trapinch lives any non supereffective Multi Attack from Silvally and we still 2hko with banded EQ
252 Atk Silvally Multi-Attack vs. 252 HP / 108 Def Trapinch: 244-288 (82.9 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
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1583109663930.png
Dual dance Noctowl is amazing at spamming unresisted Hurricanes and tearing through teams. It can come in and set up on passive Pokemon, such as Clefairy. It pairs VERY well with the next threat.

1583109691717.png
Rain boosted Hydro Pump 2hkos almost every Pokemon in PU after spikes/rocks. Water resists get blown back by Giga Drain or Ice Beam. These two Pokemon work well together, since rain guarantees that Hurricane connects, and they can both punch holes through teams that allow the other to come in and clean up. PU has some decent rain setters in Liepard and Meowstic.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1071963561

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1071896035

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1071900210

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1071978682
 
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This guy has really surprised me. It hits like a truck after having his Guts activate and it's natural bulk allows it to survive a non Super effective hit and take something with it.

The set I've been using is this:
Throh (M) @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 156 Def / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Circle Throw
- Earthquake
- Facade

Max Atk to hit as hard as it can, and the rest of the EVs to give it some bulk and outspeed other Throh.
Knock Off is a great tool to have and for a tier that has some NFE walls with Eviolite (like Carkoal, Roselia, Clefairy) is pretty useful. Earthquake to get some coverage and Facade to use the raw power of the burn. Circle Throw might seem like an odd choice but I have found it useful against Pokemon that would like to set up in Throhs face (breaks Eiscue Ice Face and throws it away with his BD boost) and having support with hazards is always welcome.

Circle Throw can be exchanged for other Fighting moves if you want to like Storm Throw (guaranteed crit), Brick Break, or even Low Sweep.
It also gets the punches for coverage.

Some calcs:
252 Atk Throh Facade vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Clefairy: 45.1-53.6% (45% to 2HKO); after Knocking Eviolite 67.7-80.2% (guaranteed 2HKO)
And Throh is just 3OHKO by non invested Clefairy.

252+ Atk Guts Throh Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Shiinotic: 132-156 (79 - 93.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

-1 252+ Atk Guts Throh Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mawile: 120-142 (76.4 - 90.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(Don't know how much Speed people put into their Mawiles but with 3 more points invested in Speed Throh can Knock Off when it switches in and outspeed and KO even after Intimidate if Mawile runs no Speed.)

So yeah, this guy might seem like a discount Conk but it's what we have. (But really why didn't GameFreak just give it Drain Punch -.-)
 

Eve

tragic magic
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
:sm/persian: meow
Persian is invaluable on pretty much every variety of offense right now imo. Here's the set I've been using and would recommend:
Persian @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Double-Edge
- Knock Off
- U-turn
Its amazing speed tier lets it just barely outpace Swoobat, which is easily the single biggest threat in the metagame (no I won't be taking other opinions on that), as well as most of everything else not wearing a scarf or named Ninjask. It might seem weak but Technician Fake Out + Double Edge is pretty potent, with the former move making it a great revenge killer. Knock Off is great utility, removing the tier's many Eviolites and Belly Drum Berries, and makes sure it can do at least something to Ghosts. Obviously, U-Turn lets it act as a pivot, getting chip so it can be brought back in again later to continue its Fake Out Cycle. I've been mainly using it on a really grimy team consisting of Webs Volt Switch Charjabug, Dual Screens Taunt Morgrem, Spikes Memento Pincurchin, Electric Seed NP Roost Swoobat, Standard Pawniard and, of course, Persian. Also, Persian has a bunch of other moves to explore, most notably Water Pulse to decimate Stonjourner. I'll give them a go at some point!
 

iLiekMudkipz_

Banned deucer.
Idk how to add those sprite images

Wishiwashi is one of the biggest offensive threats in PU in Schooling form. I got some calcs down, and its crazy!
Wishiwashi @ Choice Specs
Ability: Schooling
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Protect
- U-turn

252+ SpA Choice Specs Wishiwashi Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefairy: 294-346 (85.4 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Wishiwashi Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Clefairy: 444-523 (158 - 186.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Wishiwashi Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mawile: 322-379 (105.9 - 124.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Wishiwashi Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Swoobat: 504-594 (182.6 - 215.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Wishiwashi Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Leafeon: 486-572 (179.3 - 211%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Wishiwashi Ice Beam vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Shiinotic: 340-402 (119.7 - 141.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Wishiwashi Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gourgeist-Super: 430-508 (114.9 - 135.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
----------------
252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Wishiwashi: 164-192 (55.7 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 SpA Swoobat Stored Power (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Wishiwashi: 249-294 (84.6 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO (just BARELY ohkos)

252+ SpA Choice Specs Shiinotic Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Wishiwashi: 242-288 (82.3 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (stay away from that mushroom)

0 Atk Gourgeist-Large Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Wishiwashi: 134-158 (45.5 - 53.7%) -- 39.1% chance to 2HKO


as you can see, Wishiwashi is a BEAST.
 
In my few matches in this format,Swoobat proved to be very good for me.I used a pretty simple max special attack,max speed variant with Nasty Plot,Stored Power,Shadow Ball and Air Slash.Ludicolo is a good teammate for it I find,swapping in on grass attacks from things like Seaking and Wishiwashi
 

Attachments

Early notes, first impressions, theories.

I used Pincurchin quite a bit in NU. Solid defenses, solid attack stats and sets up electric terrain. Decent coverage and has some good utility. Amazing on TR teams and a good Pokemon in other teams. I am surprised it made its way all the way down here. Given the lack of strong ground types and I think this has the making of being a strong Pokemon in tier though needs to watch out for Trapinch/Diglett.

I've used Ninjask in PU and NU in other gens as a Choice Band/Groundium-Z Pokemon. It was always an off pick and wasn't that good outside of catching people off guard. This gen however its speed and 90Atk makes pure offense with Ninjask legitimately threatening in the current meta. Boots lets it spam U-Turn without fear of hazards as well, letting it pick off weakened Pokemon without priority.

Drought being in PU is nice, but I don't feel it is going to be meta defining. Maractus, Leafeon and Alolan Vileplume are the only three fully evolved chlorophyll users in the tier to my knowledge and none of them are that strong even with the speed boost. Maractus looks like the best of the three and I am hoping I am wrong about drought as Maractus is my favorite Pokemon.

Hattrem and Natu are both in tier. Neither are especially strong but having more then one Magic Bounce user gives people building teams team building choices. Given this tier has a plethora of defensive, utility Pokemon such as Shuckle definitely consider them.

Eiscue + Belly Drum is a mindless set and I feel you pretty much have to have an answer to it or lose games for free. Thankfully Sivally is still in tier, learns Flamethrower and outspeeds its block form.

Evolite Rest/Talk Machoke is a fairy bulky mon. Great at absorbing statuses and has more attack then one might expect. Use Throh in most cases but don't discount Machoke.

Ludicolo looks like the Pokemon to build around.
 

TJ

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B101 Leader
PU Alpha Role Compendium

Entry Hazard Setters

Stealth Rock:
:Mawile: :Carkol: :Clefairy: :Palpitoad: :Shuckle: :Solrock: :Stonjourner: :Lunatone: :Bronzor: :Diglett: :Drilbur: :Hippopotas: :Onix: :Pawniard:

Spikes: :Glalie: :Maractus: :Pincurchin: :Roselia: :Carkol:

Toxic Spikes: :Pincurchin: :Vespiquen: :Roselia: :Mareanie:

Sticky Web: :Shuckle::Charjabug:

Entry Hazard Removal

Defog:
:Noctowl: :Silvally: (all but ghost, fairy, and steel) :Vespiquen: :Togetic: :Vibrava: :Vullaby: :Farfetch’d-Galar: :Ninjask:

Rapid Spin: :Carkol: :Wartortle: :Drilbur:

Setup Users

Swords Dance:
:Beartic: :Greedent: :Leafeon: :Mawile: :Ninjask: :Seaking: :Shedinja: :Silvally: (all but ghost, fairy, and steel) :Solrock: :Fraxure: :Type Null: :Farfetch’d-Galar: :Drilbur: :Honedge: :Pawniard:

Nasty Plot: :Beheeyem: :Liepard: :Lunatone: :Meowstic-M: :Meowstic-F: :Mr. Mime: :Noctowl: :Oranguru: :Persian: :Raichu: :Swoobat: :Thievul: :Togetic::Zweilous:

Quiver Dance: :Bellossom:

Shell Smash: :Wartortle: :Sinistea:

Calm Mind: :Beheeyem: :Lunatone: :Musharna: :Oranguru: :Swoobat:

Other: :Grapploct: :Throh: :Hakamo-o: :Machoke: :Raboot: (bulk up) :Eiscue: :Greedent: (belly drum) :Grapploct: (power up punch) :Munchlax: :Sliggoo: (curse) :Drakloak: :Fraxure: :Hakamo-o: (dragon dance) :Dottler: :Type Null: (iron defense) :Duosion: (acid armor) :Stonjourner: (rock polish) :Klang: (shift gear) :Liepard::Thievul: (unburden) :Ludicolo: (rain dance) :Ivysaur: :Maractus: (growth) :Noctowl: (agility)

Wallbreakers

Physical:
:Beartic: :Grapploct: :Greedent: :Leafeon: :Mawile: :Stonjourner: :Throh: :Trevenant: :Silvally::Zweilous:

Special: :Beheeyem: :Glaceon: :Lapras: :Ludicolo: :Raichu: :Shiinotic: :Swoobat: :Wishiwashi::Noctowl::Octillery:

Mixed: :Arctovish: :Basculin: :Persian::Heatmor::Pikachu:

Revenge Killers

Choice Scarf:
:Arctovish: :Manectric: :Leafeon: :Glaceon: :Mr. Mime: :Stonjourner::Silvally:

Priority: :Beartic: :Grapploct: :Heatmor: :Liepard: :Mawile: :Persian: :Pikachu: :Shedinja: :Trapinch: :Diglett: :Pawniard: :Honedge::Trevenant: :Gourgeist-Super::Basculin:

Naturally Fast: :Basculin: :Leafeon: :Liepard: :Meowstic-F: :Ninjask: :Persian: :Raichu: :Silvally: :Swoobat: :Thievul: :Linoone-Galar: :Raboot:

Walls

Physical:
:Gourgeist-Super: :Mawile: :Musharna: :Shiinotic: :Silvally: (water, poison) :Solrock: :Stonjourner: :Vespiquen: :Carkol: :Clefairy: :Duosion: :Gloom: :Togetic: :Vibrava: :Frillish: :Hippopotas: :Vullaby::Hakamo-o:

Special: :Lapras: :Throh: :Wishiwashi: :Clefairy: :Roselia: :Sliggoo: :Type Null: :Chinchou: :Munchlax::Hakamo-o:

Mixed: :Pyukumuku: :Dusclops: :Klang: :Bronzor: :Mareanie:

Trappers: :Diglett: :Trapinch: :Grapploct: (octolock) :Pyukumuku: (block)

Memento: :Pincurchin: :Diglett::Vulpix:

Reflect / Light Screen / Aurora Veil: :Morgrem: :Solrock: :Lunatone: :Vulpix-Alola::Meowstic-M:

Magic Bounce: :Hattrem: :Natu:

Momentum
U-turn:
:Liepard: :Ninjask: :Persian: :Silvally: (all but ghost, fairy, and steel) :Vespiquen: :Raboot: :Type Null: :Vibrava: :Drakloak: :Natu: :Vullaby:

Volt Switch: :Manectric: :Pikachu: :Raichu: :Chinchou::Charjabug:

Parting Shot: :Silvally: (all but ghost, fairy, and steel) :Thievul: :Linoone-Galar:

Teleport: :Beheeyem: :Clefairy: :Natu:

Clerics

Wish / Healing Wish:
:Glaceon: :Clefairy: :Spritzee: :Mr. Mime: :Musharna: :Hattrem:

Heal Bell / Aromatherapy: :Glaceon: :Lapras: :Musharna: :Vespiquen: :Clefairy: :Togetic: :Spritzee: :Hattrem: :Roselia:

Weather

Weather Setters:
:Vulpix: :Vulpix-Alola: :snover::Hippopotas: :Meowstic-M: :Liepard: :Solrock::Onix::pincurchin:

Rain Abusers: :Beartic: :Ludicolo: :Seaking::Arctovish: :Raichu: :Basculin:

Sun Abusers: :Bellossom: :Leafeon: :Maractus: :Ivysaur:

Hail Abusers: :Beartic: :Eiscue: :Glaceon:

Terrain

Terrain Setters:
:Pincurchin:

Terrain Abusers: :Swoobat: :Thievul: :Liepard::Raichu: :Manectric::Ninjask:

Trick Room

Trick Room Setters:
:Beheeyem: :Gourgeist-Super: :Musharna: :Oranguru: :Solrock: :Dusclops: :Duosion:

Trick Room Abusers: :Arctovish: :Greedent: :Grapploct: :Throh: :Wishiwashi::Mawile::Octillery:
 
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Specs

Gucci Gucci
is a Pre-Contributor
Hi some mons ive been liking and gonna talk about the drops we got for alpha (rip stunfisk galar btw, great rocker I def would've liked to keep)

:rb/lapras:
Lapras @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 32 HP / 252 SpA / 224 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Freeze-Dry
- Thunderbolt / Substitute
- Toxic

Used this in spec for a bit and it was pretty anti meta, but here in alpha it only got better with Arctovish dropping. The defensive typing is great atm, and boots is a blessing if the set you use doesn't mind giving up the lefties recovery (hazard control is kinda iffy atm so you prolly should just run it anyways) Sub 2 attacks toxic and 3 attacks (tbolt) toxic are the two sets I've been running and it is just so hard to switch into consistently. Paired it with wish clef to keep it healthy, and it's pretty hard to take down. Spreads aren't super optimized yet but the one up top is what I've been using Overall solid pick.

:bw/zweilous:
Zweilous @ Eviolite
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Earth Power
- Dark Pulse
- Nasty Plot

I've been using Nasty Plot with Earth Power on this cutie to lure Mawile and do some breaking. 65 Spattack isnt great (hardly passable) but Draco doesnt care lol, it chunks a lot of things. Defensively it's kinda fine too, lots of grasses going around that it can tank or at least eat one hit from and fire back. You also always tank +4 air slash (if they're running it) from Swoobat so thats something of note. I've been using this with banded normal vally, great combo tbh. If Mawile starts dropping off then idk, this Zweilous set might stop being worth but for now I've had some good experiences with it.

As far as the drops:

:ss/arctovish:
Vish is cool. I think it does take advantage of the rocker meta atm, and the fact that water resists are good but not I can throw one on every team great. The meta seems to be slowly getting better with that though. Tbh Scarf seems a bit better, given that jolly can outspeed Silvally's. Though band just kills or does like 70 to anything that doesnt resist so, take your pick. Cool breaker that I will welcome for now, unless it becomes stupid! Sorry that I don't have much more to say! Just that if you resist you are taking it fine outside of band, if you don't you're almost guaranteed 2 hit ko'd.

:gs/shuckle:
Really haven't seen much Shuckle at all, even with how much HO there has been (and always will be in early metas.) Just seems like the play style prefers different leads and hazard setters. I do think that over time Shuckle will become more prominent. Given the reliability in the lead slot seems nice as the meta develops, and the potential longevity it has to stick around if you so choose. But yeah as of now, not rlly something I've seen more than once or twice, has potential though down the line!
 
PU Alpha Role Compendium

Entry Hazard Setters

Stealth Rock:
:Mawile: :Carkol: :Clefairy: :Palpitoad: :Shuckle: :Solrock: :Stonjourner: :Lunatone: :Bronzor: :Diglett: :Drilbur: :Hippopotas: :Onix: :Pawniard:

Spikes: :Glalie: :Maractus: :Pincurchin: :Roselia: :Carkol:

Toxic Spikes: :Pincurchin: :Vespiquen: :Roselia: :Mareanie:

Sticky Web: :Shuckle::Charjabug:

Entry Hazard Removal

Defog:
:Noctowl: :Silvally: (all but ghost, fairy, and steel) :Vespiquen: :Togetic: :Vibrava: :Vullaby: :Farfetch’d-Galar:

Rapid Spin: :Carkol: :Wartortle: :Drilbur:

Setup Users

Swords Dance:
:Beartic: :Greedent: :Leafeon: :Mawile: :Ninjask: :Seaking: :Shedinja: :Silvally: (all but ghost, fairy, and steel) :Solrock: :Fraxure: :Type Null: :Farfetch’d-Galar: :Drilbur: :Honedge: :Pawniard:

Nasty Plot: :Beheeyem: :Liepard: :Lunatone: :Meowstic-M: :Meowstic-F: :Mr. Mime: :Noctowl: :Oranguru: :Persian: :Raichu: :Swoobat: :Thievul: :Togetic::Zweilous:

Quiver Dance: :Bellossom:

Shell Smash: :Wartortle: :Sinistea:

Calm Mind: :Beheeyem: :Lunatone: :Musharna: :Oranguru: :Swoobat:

Other: :Grapploct: :Throh: :Hakamo-o: :Machoke: :Raboot: (bulk up) :Eiscue: :Greedent: (belly drum) :Grapploct: (power up punch) :Munchlax: :Sliggoo: (curse) :Drakloak: :Fraxure: :Hakamo-o: (dragon dance) :Dottler: :Type Null: (iron defense) :Duosion: (acid armor) :Stonjourner: (rock polish) :Klang: (shift gear) :Liepard::Thievul: (unburden) :Ludicolo: (rain dance) :Ivysaur: :Maractus: (growth) :Noctowl: (agility)

Wallbreakers

Physical:
:Beartic: :Grapploct: :Greedent: :Leafeon: :Mawile: :Stonjourner: :Throh: :Trevenant: :Silvally::Zweilous:

Special: :Beheeyem: :Glaceon: :Lapras: :Ludicolo: :Raichu: :Shiinotic: :Swoobat: :Wishiwashi::Noctowl:

Mixed: :Arctovish: :Basculin: :Persian::Heatmor::Pikachu:

Revenge Killers

Choice Scarf:
:Arctovish: :Manectric: :Leafeon: :Glaceon: :Mr. Mime: :Stonjourner::Silvally:

Priority: :Beartic: :Grapploct: :Heatmor: :Liepard: :Mawile: :Persian: :Pikachu: :Shedinja: :Trapinch: :Diglett: :Pawniard: :Honedge::Trevenant: :Gourgeist-Super::Basculin:

Naturally Fast: :Basculin: :Leafeon: :Liepard: :Meowstic-F: :Ninjask: :Persian: :Raichu: :Silvally: :Swoobat: :Thievul: :Linoone-Galar: :Raboot:

Walls

Physical:
:Gourgeist-Super: :Mawile: :Musharna: :Shiinotic: :Silvally: (water, poison) :Solrock: :Stonjourner: :Vespiquen: :Carkol: :Clefairy: :Duosion: :Gloom: :Togetic: :Vibrava: :Frillish: :Hippopotas: :Vullaby::Hakamo-o:

Special: :Lapras: :Throh: :Wishiwashi: :Clefairy: :Roselia: :Sliggoo: :Type Null: :Chinchou: :Munchlax::Hakamo-o:

Mixed: :Pyukumuku: :Dusclops: :Klang: :Bronzor: :Mareanie:

Trappers: :Diglett: :Trapinch: :Grapploct: (octolock) :Pyukumuku: (block)

Memento: :Pincurchin: :Diglett::Vulpix:

Reflect / Light Screen / Aurora Veil: :Morgrem: :Solrock: :Lunatone: :Vulpix-Alola::Meowstic-M:

Magic Bounce: :Hattrem: :Natu:

Momentum
U-turn:
:Liepard: :Ninjask: :Persian: :Silvally: (all but ghost, fairy, and steel) :Vespiquen: :Raboot: :Type Null: :Vibrava: :Drakloak: :Natu: :Vullaby:

Volt Switch: :Manectric: :Pikachu: :Raichu: :Chinchou::Charjabug:

Parting Shot: :Silvally: (all but ghost, fairy, and steel) :Thievul: :Linoone-Galar:

Teleport: :Beheeyem: :Clefairy: :Natu:

Clerics

Wish / Healing Wish:
:Glaceon: :Clefairy: :Spritzee: :Mr. Mime: :Musharna: :Hattrem:

Heal Bell / Aromatherapy: :Glaceon: :Lapras: :Musharna: :Vespiquen: :Clefairy: :Togetic: :Spritzee: :Hattrem: :Roselia:

Weather

Weather Setters:
:Vulpix: :Vulpix-Alola: :snover::Hippopotas: :Meowstic-M: :Liepard: :Solrock::Onix::pincurchin:

Rain Abusers: :Beartic: :Ludicolo: :Seaking::Arctovish: :Raichu: :Basculin:

Sun Abusers: :Bellossom: :Leafeon: :Maractus: :Ivysaur:

Hail Abusers: :Beartic: :Eiscue: :Glaceon:

Terrain

Terrain Setters:
:Pincurchin:

Terrain Abusers: :Swoobat: :Thievul: :Liepard::Raichu: :Manectric:

Trick Room

Trick Room Setters:
:Beheeyem: :Gourgeist-Super: :Musharna: :Oranguru: :Solrock: :Dusclops: :Duosion:

Trick Room Abusers: :Arctovish: :Greedent: :Grapploct: :Throh: :Wishiwashi::Mawile:
Can you add priority move abusers? Trapinch w/ First Impression, etc?
 

Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Def
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Swords Dance
- Acrobatics
- U-turn


Honestly think this is kinda broken lol. Same set as I ran in NU, adamant Acro is so strong and Flying is such an obscenely good offensive type, and since there's very few Steel types in the tier not much eats both STABs - or rather, very little isn't worn down by U-turn enough to not then die later to a boosted Acro. Not only that, but the Steel types we do have are really easily worn down, and you can actually set up on defensive Mawile anyway. You can even set up on Throh with rocks up, or without rocks up the likes of Roselia, Grapploct, scarf Arctovish's fishious rend and even a 70% chance to live neutral Multi-Attacks.

Answers to it defensively are limited for common teams right now, but offensive answers are even more limited. Protect prevents the most common forms of priority, First Impression and Fake Out, from touching you whatsoever, and makes you outspeed the entire tier including scarfers and swift swimmers after a turn.

I know everyone wants to run boots but honestly, this is way too strong to give up on. You don't even need to be super on top of hazard removal because this doesn't need very many opportunities to sweep a team.



Wishiwashi @ Leftovers
Ability: Schooling
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Scald
- U-turn


My old favourite :heart: Does the same thing as ever - eats hits, absorbs status, throws out strong scalds and u-turns to get frailer mons in.



Beheeyem @ Leftovers
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Future Sight
- Teleport
- Thunderbolt


Probably the mon I have the most fun using rn. I love Future Sight, it's such a strong and interesting move, and this set enables you to throw out really strong Future Sights and then pivot safely into another attacker to pressure teams with a dual attack the next turn. This is really, really potent against Stall, and its bulk+recover+slow pivot makes it useful vs offensive teams too. Thunderbolt is nice coverage and is naturally strong thanks to Analytic and Beheeyem's great spattk even when uninvested.
 
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Mawile @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Swords Dance

Mawile is such a fun wallbreaker to use right now. He threatens common pokemon like throh and other fighting mons that likes to invest in sp def over def, and can setup on pokemon like shuckle, clefairy (without fire blast) and roselia(without sleep powder). Every pokemon slower than mawile will honestly be extremely pressured by it with the fact there aren't that many pokemon that resist it, and they can't switch in. That said through pokemon that is faster than mawile will usually force him out even if mawile has sucker punch because of his frailness and sheer force doesn't support sucker punch. But overall mawile is a good pokemon to pick up, and threatens defensive playstyles and slower bulky pokemon overall.

I haven't explored so much other sets, but if you don't like the sucker punch and sword dance..
Knock off over sucker punch is for getting rid of their items and cripple them. Taunt is for stopping mons like pyuku, dusclops, gourgeist etc. status mons in general.
 
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Mawile @ Leftovers/Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Seismic Toss
- Protect/Foul Play/Taunt

As a counterpart to the post above, I've found mawile to be a EXCELLENT defense pokemon, intimidate+awsome typing+passable bulk allows it to switch into many things, for example, comfortably switching into scarf arctovish. Its a great rocker, and it can remove the boots of the things that spin or defog away its rocks. Nobody except silvally likes switching into knock, and seismic toss is AMAZING in PU due to the overall low HP, it chunks away a ton of health away from many things. Protect lets it heal more, foul play bops SD Silvally, and taunt annoys tf out of bulky teams, while removing all of their items.
 
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(Sorry for the double post I forgot about this guy)
either I'm blind and someone discussed it, or it hasnt been touched, but Basculin-Blue Stripe is a fantastic mon in the tier, it sports a super good speed tier, and adaptability with good offensive typing. Its choice banded liquidations cleanly 2HKO max max bold defensive silvally after rocks, and mawile can only switch in once. Banded aqua jet is also a super good asset, doing 65% to swoobat, 62% to persian, 78% to ninjask, etc. Normally arctovish would annoy it with its immunity, but Basculin-Blue Stripe can also blow it away with Superpower or head smash. I could see life orb also being used, as it is super fast in PU and could clean late game.

Basculin-Blue-Striped @ Choice Band
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Liquidation
- Psychic Fangs
- Superpower

Basculin normal is completely inferior to blue stripe and should never be used

(Gonna post this before I forget and double post again)
Stonjourner @ Hard Stone
Ability: Power Spot
EVs: 196 HP / 252 Atk / 28 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Polish
- Stone Edge
- Heat Crash

I love this set so much. It has great coverage between those 3 moves, heat crash almost always has 120 BP, the given EVs outspeeds persian after a boost and lets you set up on all sorts of physical attackers, like banded trapinch.
252+ Atk Hard Stone Stonjourner Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Silvally-Dark: 285-335 (86.1 - 101.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Trapinch Earthquake vs. 196 HP / 0 Def Stonjourner: 348-410 (89.2 - 105.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
actually nvm its a roll... that must have been an eviolite trapinch

EDIT: my posts look ugly and hard to look at, can someone tell me how to embed sprites...
 
I think right now Swoobat is a threat. It has one of the highest speed tiers in the tier only being naturally outsped by ninjask and persian and by scarfers. This makes revenge killing options limited after setup. It gained access to nasty plot this gen which after one boost makes its an extremely good wallbreaker. stored power koes almost everything in the tier and dark types dont appreciate taking a +3 boosted stab air slash or coverage move. That being said one of swoobats obvious flaws is that its super frail. This means strong priority or scarfers or any thing remotely strong in power can ko or 2hko it. Overall, swoobat is a potent glass cannon sweeper in the current pu alpha meta.
 

g

blood tastes like iron
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Some things i found really good

:arctovish:
Arctovish @ Assault Vest
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 88 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fishious Rend
- Freeze-Dry
- Icicle Crash
- Rock Tomb

This mon is really great and i think this is the most splashable set that requires the least support from the rest of the team. You don't need to tell me this hits really hard and chunks common physical walls like Mawile for heavy damage and putting a ton of pressure on enemy teams if they have to face another physical breaker/sweeper. Rock Tomb was suggested to me by Tap and is really good to ease prediction and boost Fishious Rend's power against things that are usually faster. Speed EVs allow you to outrun Roselia. A crazy version of this set has jolly and max speed to outspeed nearly everything at -1 but i won't go there for now.

:ninjask:
Ninjask @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Leech Life
- U-turn
- Aerial Ace / Protect
- Defog / Protect

(you can use a slightly bulkier spread if you have protect) Not really a surprise to anyone but it makes a ton of glass cannon type mons significantly harder to justify (i think swoobat included!) and the only real punish to it are random rocky helmets/flamebody carkol and really sturdy walls on teams that keep hazards off consistently. Just really effective.

:klang:
Klang @ Eviolite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 240 HP / 136 Def / 40 SpD / 92 Spe
Impish Nature
- Shift Gear
- Gear Grind
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Making a comeback from ORAS PU this is just really hard to handle for slower teams. It beats almost anything that is a slow setup sweeper (and clear body is great for strenght sap users despair), has great defensive typing and a ton of bulk to just check random things throughout the game including but not limited to most Silvally, Clefairy, Ninjask, Bellossom, Beheeyem, Musharna, Mr. Mime, Mawile, Roselia. It keeps being a threat even after being knocked off but an absorber with it will work particularly great.
 

Eve

tragic magic
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
PU doesn't have a heat thread, but honestly it doesn't need one with how the tier is so here's a fun post. In this internet essay I will review two horses and two ball-shaped friends. Enjoy!

:sm/darumaka:
Choice Band Darumaka is obscene with how much damage it deals, and is honestly my favourite Band user so far. Here's the set:
Darumaka @ Choice Band
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Superpower
- Toxic
- U-turn
Flare Blitz OHKOs almost any non-resist, and its Speed tier is actually quite serviceable with how many Mawiles and Lapras you see not running +Speed Natures and other defensive Pokemon being perfect entry points via pivoting. The only good common answer to this monster is Pyukumuku, and that doesn't appreciate either Toxic or a U-Turn into something like Manectric.
I've been using Daru on a team with 4 other pivots (Persian, Sash Liepard, Eject Pack Manectric and Silvally-Grass for removal) and a Healing Wish Clefairy to set Rocks and give the little guy a second chance at life, and it's surprisingly effective. Darumaka also seems to have a lot of potential on both Webs and Sun, especially considering Adamant Darumaka cleanly 2HKOs fully phys def Pyuk with Sun up and Jolly outruns the majority of the metagame under Webs. Either way, pivots and Healing Wish are vital for maximum output, but they're more than worth it (even if just for the style points from destroying someone with a Darumaka). Also Galarian Darumaka is just worse as it gets walled by Mawile and Lapras.

:sm/manectric:
Yep. Eject Pack Manectric is a real set with real merit, especially on teams that don't need it as a scarfer (honestly I've just been ditching scarfers and using priority instead). Here it be:
Manectric @ Eject Pack
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower
- Overheat
- Volt Switch
Having two strong methods of pivoting with no shared immunities (or resistances, outside of the very lacking Palpitoad) is great enough, and it's even better when you realise that it lets you escape Trapinch's loving embrace. Running a non-choiced Manectric also improves your Manectric matchup, as a +1 from Lightning Rod can be really devastating versus the sort of builds featuring Mane and your opponent has to keep that in mind. The main downside of this set is that Eject Pack triggers instantly on Sticky Web, so be careful in that scenario.

:sm/koffing:
Koffing has a huge amount of potential, on a very different style of team to the previous 2 mons- Stall! This is almost entirely due to its surprisingly valuable typing, access to Toxic Spikes and most importantly the best Ability in the game, Neutralising Gas. NGas does cool things like turning off Mawile's Sheer Force, making Clefairy vulnerable to status, letting it set Toxic Spikes versus a team with Hattrem, turning Throh and Machoke's Guts into a liability, preventing Vulpix and Pincurchin from getting things going versus it, turning off various other boosting abilities like Hustle and Adaptability... You get it, it does a lot. Koffing also has the great combination of mediocre HP paired with Pain Split, which is amazing at taking your opponent down while keeping you alive. With the right support (most importantly Wish and pivots for its weaknesses) I think Koffing has even more potential than Roselia, which is currently a staple of the playstyle due to the importance of Toxic Spikes.
Now that you've read this, here's the set. See what you can do with it!
Koffing @ Eviolite
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Wave / Fire Blast
- Will-O-Wisp / Fire Blast
- Pain Split
- Toxic Spikes

:sm/mudbray:
Mudbray isn't something I've used myself, but after several hours in call with a good friend who bodied the ladder with it I can confidently say the little guy is worth a try. Here's what he was running on it:
Mudbray @ Eviolite
Ability: Stamina
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Low Kick
- Toxic
Mudbray's physical bulk is great for this tier, and it packs an almost unique typing for its level of viability. Stealth Rock means it fills a distinct role, and Stamina means that it can handle things like Persian very well- getting Knocked off makes no immediate difference due to the boost. It also lures a lot of annoying stuff like Gourgeist and leaves them with an unpleasant poisoning. Mudbray fits best on balance as the rocker and a nice defensive pivot.

To conclude, this tier is wack but in the best way and I'm absolutely loving it. Also I absolutely changed my mind! Mawile is the single best Pokemon in the meta unless you consider every Silvally the same Poke. Get out there and try things! :)
 
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Im losing my absolut mind about this tier. Its so awesome to see mons like Mudbray or freaking Zweilous having a niche.
I just wanna post my fish again (like I did in NU but i guess they don't like him that much) :Basculin: Basculin-Red-Striped-Gang!!!!

Now I know that Gravelmouse already posted about Basculin but he talks trash (jk)

Basculin @ Choice Band
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Liquidation
- Aqua Jet
- Head Smash
- Double-Edge / Psychic Fangs
The moves can vary depending on your team. The only move that is a must have is Head Smash 'cause that is the only reason why you should sie this set over Gravelmouse's, and Water-STAB of course.
What makes this set "better"? The sheer force (haha) of this set. Reckless Head Smash hits harder than Adaptability Liquidation
(150 * 1,2 = 180 > 85 * 2 = 170) .
I don't see much reason to run the coverage Gravelmouse has on his set and Im about to tell you why:
Superpower hits Rock-/Ice-/Steel- and Dark-Types. The only viable Steel-Types I see are Mawile (which is part Fairy), Bronzor (which is part Psychic) and Pawniard (ok im giving u that one). All the Dark-Types (except Silvally-Dark and Pawniard) are super frail on the physical side so hitting them with Superpower isn't needed imo. Ice-Types get smashed (haha) by Head Smash. And of course Rock-Types are weak to water.
Psychic Fangs i guess is supposed to hit Fighting-Types like Silvally-Fighting and Throh but thats pretty much it for these and Poison-Types like Silvally-Poison and mainly i guess Roselia/Gloom? The only issue I see is my calculation above 'cause the BP of Psychic Fangs is 85 so Head Smash is stronger (against the Poison-Types!). But its ok for Fighting-Types (I add that to my move-set)
All of the Sillvallys dont like switching in on you and I doubt that you OHKO any offensive set from full even with the super effective moves.

Having such a strong Rock-Attack is really good, especially when its paired with Water-Attacks. Double-Edge is just a "side-nuke" when you don't want to risk missing Head Smash.
Speaking of missing, this set isn't flawless. The big one: Head Smash can miss. Really unfortunate but i cant help it. The other big one is the recoil. Basculin's HP-Stat is not that high, meaning it gets chipped A LOT. Wish support can be used but i doubt that you get this fish in safely (maybe Teleport Clefairy).

So some toughts at the end. If you need a nuke/extrem hard-hitting wallbreaker use this set; if you need a reliable cleaner/revenge killer use Gravelmouse's set.

Edit: This set is NOT meant to be a long-living revenger or cleaner! This set is supposed to catch your opponent by surprise by hitting way harder than the other set!

thats all from me Im looking forward to this meta
thanks for reading.
 
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termi

pyongyang gang
is a Tiering Contributor
What makes this set "better"? The sheer force (haha) of this set. Reckless Head Smash hits harder than Adaptability Liquidation
(150 * 1,2 = 180 > 85 * 2 = 170) .
the thing is that u can spam adaptability liquidation without ruining your health in the process. if you click head smash twice on a watervally with no hp investment, you lose about 60% of your health in the process. ohkoing a lapras will set you back over 70% of your health even if the lapras has 0 hp investment. add to all this that you don't actually get a whole lot of ohkos/2hkos that you cant get with an adaptability set + the fact that adaptability gives you a stronger aqua jet to revenge stuff like swoobat and ninjask with, and i really dont see how this is ever an advantageous thing to run
 

Lilburr

windless night
is a Pre-Contributor
Basculin normal is completely inferior to blue stripe and should never be used
ON THE CONTRARY
:ss/basculin:
Basculin @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Liquidation
- Aqua Jet
- Superpower
- Crunch

i ran the exact same thing but with crunch because gourgeist is obnoxious and it does everything blue stripe does AND bluffs reckless as if that's important! leave my red friend alone

anyway. I've played a very limited amount of games to escape the hell that is UU veil, and I've got a few thoughts on some mons that feel pretty okay at least

:ss/pyukumuku:
blob rock friend beats arctovish and as far as i can tell, it's the only mon in the tier that actually does this bc it gets coverage to smash all the other water immunities and nothing else in the tier is bulky enough to take fishious. it's also a pretty neat stop to non-stored power swoobat and SD silvally forms!

:ss/ninjask:
this thing is the destroyer of worlds and i love it so much. it's so strong after a boost or two and only really has two solid stops in mawile and pyukumuku. uturn HDB sets and sd acro sets are both good! feels really weird to see ninjask as a good mon in an actual tier

:ss/silvally:
lol

:ss/throh:
flame orb guts sets are nukes and physdef resttalk sets are also really good. amazing natural bulk and great attack with decent enough coverage makes it quite the threat and a pain to deal with for most teams. only issue is that fairies are annoying but you can just run it with mawile or something to help combat that if you wanna


fun tier so far! part of me wishes it had a bigger mon pool but then there's the part of me that loves the fact that charjabug is a truly viable pick. can't wait to see the tier after potential bans n stuff
 
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