Resource SS Ubers Viability Ranking Thread (Pre-Home)

[Nayrz]

<art will come... eventually...>

Welcome to the SS Ubers VR!

Here is where we aim to rank all the Pokemon by order of viability in the SS Ubers metagame.
​

Thread Rules

- Post intelligently. One line only posts saying things like "X should be X rank" without context or supporting evidence are likely to be disregarded or deleted.
- Be civil when debating with other users. Any flaming will not be tolerated!
- This thread is for discussion of the viability rankings only. Simple questions about why something is ranked or how to build a team should look to our SQSA or our various resources outlined in the Forum Guide.
- Be aware of our subforum rules and global forum rules, they naturally apply here too!

The VR Council

The VR Council is a collective of users given the privilege to assess any new nominations from the community and vote on them before they become accepted into the rankings. The same council also has a similar privilege in our Sample Teams thread. The VR Council is also able to internally nominate changes to the thread where it will be voted just like a community user's vote. All changes to the Viability Rankings will be documented in the form of updates, where votes and associated reasoning are collected in a spreadsheet, so keep an eye out for update posts! The current members of the VR Council are:

Nayrz
Mysterious M
Cynara
Skysolo
byronthewellwell
SiTuM
Manaphy
Terracotta
Hack
Reje

Rankings

The S and A ranks are ordered by order of their viability as determined by the community and council. We opt for this in the Ubers VRs due to the centralized nature of the tier leading to more obvious gaps in how good something is. B rank and below are still listed alphabetically, to avoid excessive nitpicking and less interesting discussion.

Each Pokemon will have their Strategy Dex entry hyperlinked as they go up on site. When its early in the generation and there are new additions to the VR it will likely take extra time to have their site entry available.

S Rank

S

Eternatus
Corviknight
Gothitelle

A Rank

A+

Zacian-C
Ditto
Excadrill

A

Zamazenta
Quagsire
Tyranitar
Hatterene
Galarian Darmanitan

A-

Galarian Corsola
Dugtrio
Aegislash
Hippowdon
Sableye

B Rank

A reminder: all Pokemon below this point are sorted alphabetically.

B+

Dracovish
Ferrothorn
Mandibuzz
Reuniclus
Rotom-H
Snorlax

B

Charizard
Clefable
Dragapult
Gyarados
Mew
Pyukumuku
Rotom-W
Vaporeon
Umbreon
Zacian

B-

Cloyster
Polteageist
Seismitoad
Torkoal
Toxapex

C Rank

C+

Barraskewda
Galarian Weezing
Glalie
Haxorus
Hydreigon
Jellicent
Kommo-O
Lapras
Ninetales
Ribombee
Zamazenta-C

C

Arcanine
Pelipper
Shuckle
Wobbuffet

 

[Nayrz]

Welcome to the SS Ubers VR! The OP has already went over pretty much everything I could cover in an "update post", but you can see that the VR Council has changed since moving to Gen 8.

Here's the spreadsheet that determined the OP's outcome. Each tab has every participating member's personal VRs along with associated reasoning and is worth a read to gather council perspective and to likely answer some of your questions. Let's have a good thread!

 

[zee]

A -> A-

I think that while Hatt is one of the most effective ways of keeping hazards off the field, one of the best gigantimax/dynamax users in the tier, and the best Trick Room user, it still has some inherent problems. Gothitelle and Reuniclus can come in and set up on it or smack it around with shadow ball respectively. But the largest flaw with Hatterene in my opinion is that it its meh defenses make it virtually impossible to be switched in on anything that isn't named Eternatus. Solid Pokemon, but a little harder to get going and more situational than its A tier neighbors.

B+ -> B

Mandibuzz has a lot of stuff coming at it from Pokemon in the higher tiers that just don't sit right with me. It's nuked by Zacian-C and heavily weakened by CB Zamazenta, is absolutely murdered by Darminatan-G, and suffers enormously if hit with Toxic from Eternatus or Quagsire. It just seems outclassed by Corviknight as a whole in every arena except for Knock Off and being immune to Stored Power Gothitelle. In my opinion, those niches are being a little overstated and should probably be dropped down just a tier.

B -> C

Dragapult, from what I can gather from my ~300 games of the tier, is a Pokemon that's attractive for newer players for its high speed, good coverage, and freedom to still be able to dynamax. This is all fine and dandy until you quickly realize how many top Pokemon it actually has trouble being able to successfully break. Zacian-C outspeeds it and makes it regret being born with Behemoth Blade alone, scarf Zacian/Zamazenta have the Play Rough (Zacian can even OHKO Dynamaxed Dragapult), Tyranitar absolutely roadblocks it, and Darminatan outspeeds and slaps it silly. There are also smaller interactions here, such as not being able to reliably beat Eternatus with Cosmic Power boosts, doing insanely poor damage to boosted Gothitelle, and just making rather bad use of a player's Dynamax that could easily be spent on a better offensive Pokemon such as Darminatan-G

 

[orch]

Hey there! Thanks for finally freeing the VR thread. Here's my opinions on what VR should look like.

Zacian-C S -> B

Don't get me wrong, Zacian-C is an okay pokemon with a narrow niche. The problem with Zacian-C is that it's unable to adapt to the metagame changes. I believe that the options for adaptions has been maxed out due to its shallow movepool. This is an issue because it means that every single team can be prepared for Zacian-C and be essentially guaranteed to beat it from the preview. You could argue that the only reason that this is happening is because Zacian-C is so blatantly powerful. IMO, the teambuilding pressure is actually coming from normal Zacian, and Zacian-C is being passively checked alongside. In addition, Zacian-C suffers from opportunity cost from Zacian with its superior typing and free item slot which enable much more adaptability.

Zacian B -> A+

Zacian is fast and powerful pokemon that is definitely better than its Crowned version. Choice band sets 2hkos the whole tier. There is no counter for this set. Its typing allows it to be only trapped by Dugtrio in its 40%'s, while Zacian-C is trapped after 1 Substitute chip. Zacian can use Choice scarf to become a powerful speed control tool. Zacian can use LO to become an even more powerful sweeper that can choose moves. In addition, since Eternatus has been forgoing poison move for Flamethrower, Zacian is an excellent check vs Eternatus and immediately threaten the rest of the team. Zacian has item slot which allows it endless amount of adaptions compared to its inferior form.

Aegislash A- -> C+

Aegislash is only useful for beating Hatterene using Occa berry and Steel beam. Aegislash does not beat Zacian nor Eternatus. The majority of tier threatens to beat it with the spamming of Dark, Ground, and Fire moves. Oh did I mention that Eternatus totally wall this pokemon?

Hippopowdon A- -> C-

A really really bad pokemon. Hippowodon seems like a nice pokemon from the first glance. However, it has severe problems with its niche. In theory, you would use Hippowodon for Sand, Zacian check, and Stealth rock. Firstly, Hippowodon is an extremely poor Zacian check. It only manages to check Zacian as long it's only +1 attack. If you're facing a Ditto that copied your Zacian. Hippowodon loses. If you're facing a CB Zacian. Hippowodon loses. If you're facing SD Zacian. Hippowodon loses. The stealth rock niche is not great one, since it is unable to threaten common defoggers such as Corviknight and Mandibuzz. The best it can do is sit there and gets PP stalled in the long run. The sand niche is better served by Tyranitar. Since Tyranitar has actually useful niches outside of sand, it is able to offer vastly more options in exchange for just one team slot. Much more than what Hippo has to offer.

Rotom-H B+ -> A-

Rotom-H is much better than pokemon like Ferrothorn for sure. Rotom-H has useful and powerful niches. It is able to offensively/defensively threaten Zacian, Zacian-C, Corviknight, Excadrill, Darmanitan, and Sableye while spreading burn and volt-switching. Some may would point out that Quagsire is very common and totally walls Rotom-H, however Quagsire will get burned and you can use that as an advantage for your own Zacian. In addition, CB Zamazenta 2hkos Rotom-H, so you can use it to burn and render Zamazenta useless.

 

[Jaajgko]

Before going into the argumentation, I'd like to say thanks for the accurate looking vr, and grats to Situm for being on the council.

: B- -> B or B+
Pex suffers a lot from the two trappers forcing it to run Shed Shell but it also works quite nicely in tandem to them with Eject Button. Its ability to switch into a Ditto that copied your Zacian or switching into Eternatus and then trapping it with Sash Dug/Goth is pretty amazing, and can benefit itself a lot from the removal of Eternatus as it can freely setup tspikes. Also, with eject button + dug it shouldn't be super weak to trappers, and it can also be paired with a goth set that beats other goths and dugs. It can also run Shed Shell sets allowing it to be safer against the trappers and useful outside of trapping teams. Its defensive abilites allow it to pivot into Zamazenta and Darmanitan, to remove the boosts from Eternatus and generally it can wall most mons of the meta outside of the 2 S ranks, the psychics and Exca, which brings amazing utility to bulky teams. Given the fact that it can only soft check the two S ranks, I don't think it should be ranked higher than B+, but it feels way better than the B- mons and half of the B mons.

 

[DragicMag]

I think the vr looks pretty good so far, nice work guys! There is one nomination that I would like to make.

Rotom-C UR - > C+/C

I have been playing with Rotom Mow quite a bit and it's actually not bad. Although it's role is very similar to that of Rotom Wash, it's niche lies in it's ability to put a lot of pressure on Quagsire and enemy Rotom Wash, while still threatening a lot of the same pokemon that Wash can, such as Corviknight, Hippowdon, and Toxapex. Like the other Rotom forms, it is great at luring in Eternatus and crippling it with Thunder Wave. Unfortunately, it can't effectively take on Excadril without Dynamaxing, and cannot switch into Darmanitan at all, pokemon that Rotom-Wash can deal with, and it can be easily abused through prediction because of the nasty special attack drops from leaf storm. Still, Rotom Mow's niche in pressuring quagsire more than the other Rotom forms is, I feel, valuable enough to place it among the pokemon in C+ or C.

The set I've been using is
Rotom-Mow @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Volt Switch

Modest max Special Attack gives it enough power to 2HKO all variants of toxapex and mandibuzz, and a chance to OHKO corviknight after stealth rock. Rotom's speed is naturally high enough to outspeed it's main targets so the rest was put into bulk. It could probably run a ChestoResto set like Rotom-Wash and wil-o-wisp can be a nice option as well.

Here are some replays!

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ubers-1040055102
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ubers-1040047664
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ubers-1040017670

 

[JuanchoTacorta]

That's a nice VR, time to expand it

Conkeldurr UR - > C

Conkeldurr @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 132 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Mach Punch
- Defog
- Earthquake / Knock Off

Conkeldurr is surprisingly a really effective Defogger thanks to it's ability to beat most hazard setters in the tier and the ability to absorb status and pressure many walls in the metagame, namely Tyranitar, Ferrothorn, Hippowdown, Quagsire or Mandibuzz. While it may be overshadowed by Choice Band Zamazenta, the ability to switch moves while retaining slighly more power, Mach Punch and Earthquake carves a niche on itself, which allows Conk to prevent Sand Rush Excadrill from sweeping and beating Aegislash and T-Spikes Eternatus, something that Zamazenta really struggles to do so.

Wall of calcs

Hide

252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 219-258 (52.1 - 61.4%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 273-322 (69.2 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zacian-Crowned: 102-120 (31.3 - 36.9%)
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dugtrio: 198-234 (93.8 - 110.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 344-408 (95 - 112.7%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Blade: 282-334 (87 - 103%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eternatus: 282-334 (58.2 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Milotic UR - > C+

Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 HP / 108 Def / 148 SpD
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Recover
- Haze
- Dragon Tail

Looking for an alternative Eternatus check and avoid Tyranitar, I was pleasantly surprised at Milotic's ability to do so. The given spread allows Milotic to avoid a 2HKO from Specs Timid Eternatus while also avoiding 2HKO from LO variants even when burned. Milotic is also able to stop and beat most special set-up sweepers like Kommo-O and Hydreigon thanks to the combination of Haze and Dragon Tail. DTail also ensures that Gothitelle is unable to trap and remove Milo, even though it may be able to run Shed Shell if run max Sp Def. It is also able to soft check Galarian Darmanitan, specially if Milotic has been burn. Overall a nice and underlooked mon.

Wall of calc

Hide

252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 108 Def Milotic: 184-217 (46.7 - 55%) -- 13.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers
252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 108 Def Marvel Scale Milotic: 124-146 (31.4 - 37%) -- 80.2% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Eternatus Dynamax Cannon (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 148+ SpD Milotic: 153-183 (38.8 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery and burn damage
252 SpA Choice Specs Eternatus Dynamax Cannon (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 148+ SpD Milotic: 177-208 (44.9 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Kommo-o Clanging Scales vs. 252 HP / 148+ SpD Milotic: 199-235 (50.5 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers

Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ubers-1040270395
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ubers-1037599169
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ubers-1033427669 (This one only showcases Conk)

 

[DragicMag]

Hey there! Thanks for finally freeing the VR thread. Here's my opinions on what VR should look like.

Zacian-C S -> B

Don't get me wrong, Zacian-C is an okay pokemon with a narrow niche. The problem with Zacian-C is that it's unable to adapt to the metagame changes. I believe that the options for adaptions has been maxed out due to its shallow movepool. This is an issue because it means that every single team can be prepared for Zacian-C and be essentially guaranteed to beat it from the preview. You could argue that the only reason that this is happening is because Zacian-C is so blatantly powerful. IMO, the teambuilding pressure is actually coming from normal Zacian, and Zacian-C is being passively checked alongside. In addition, Zacian-C suffers from opportunity cost from Zacian with its superior typing and free item slot which enable much more adaptability.

Zacian B -> A+

Zacian is fast and powerful pokemon that is definitely better than its Crowned version. Choice band sets 2hkos the whole tier. There is no counter for this set. Its typing allows it to be only trapped by Dugtrio in its 40%'s, while Zacian-C is trapped after 1 Substitute chip. Zacian can use Choice scarf to become a powerful speed control tool. Zacian can use LO to become an even more powerful sweeper that can choose moves. In addition, since Eternatus has been forgoing poison move for Flamethrower, Zacian is an excellent check vs Eternatus and immediately threaten the rest of the team. Zacian has item slot which allows it endless amount of adaptions compared to its inferior form.

I agree with the points that you've made, but I don't think the change should be that drastic. First of all, life orb doesn't seem like that great of an option because it is only slightly stronger than Crowned but wears you down quickly, as seen in these calcs.

252+ Atk Life Orb Zacian Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 168-199 (42.6 - 50.5%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Zacian-Crowned Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 159-187 (40.3 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Yes it does have a chance to 2hko quag, but that is a very small chance so you are most likely to wear yourself down a ton as it recovers if you attempt to KO the quag.

Base form Zacian's main niche seems to be a choice set. The choice band set is extremely dangerous, as you said; it's able to 2HKO quagsire, hippowdon, and do massive damage to the majority of the tier. The problem is that it can be abused through prediction much more than Zacian-C can due to being choice locked. Galarian Darmanitan is able to switch its moves through Dynamax and it still beats a lot of the pokemon that Zacian does, so you could say that there is a bit of competition there. The lack of steel typing is a bit of a double edged sword (lol get it) as well. Yes, pure fairy is arguably better in terms of weaknesses than fairy/steel in this meta due to fire and ground being very common attacking types, but it no longer gives you a resistance to stealth rocks and an immunity to toxic spikes, which makes base form Zacian easier to wear down than its crowned counterpart. I do think that base form Zacian is still very much a threat, and could be placed in A- perhaps, but I don't think it outclasses the crowned form.

However, quagsire is quite a problem in the meta right now, often leaving Zacian-C sitting around for most of the match just by existing, so I could see Zacian-C dropping to somewhere in A+, leaving Eternatus as the sole S rank mon.

 

[orch]

First of all, life orb doesn't seem like that great of an option because it is only slightly stronger than Crowned but wears you down quickly, as seen in these calcs.

252+ Atk Life Orb Zacian Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 168-199 (42.6 - 50.5%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Zacian-Crowned Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 159-187 (40.3 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Yes it does have a chance to 2hko quag, but that is a very small chance so you are most likely to wear yourself down a ton as it recovers if you attempt to KO the quag.

I feel that it's uncharitable to use hazards as an argument against Zacian, yet does not apply to this damage calculation. Here's some basic scenarios that Quagsire finds itself falling into: Switching into SR, switching into spikes, gets burned, or/and gets poisoned. I hope that we can agree that these are not farfetched scenarios.

252+ Atk Life Orb Zacian Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 168-199 (42.6 - 50.5%) -- 34.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Zacian Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 168-199 (42.6 - 50.5%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes
252+ Atk Life Orb Zacian Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 168-199 (42.6 - 50.5%) -- 34.8% chance to 2HKO after burn damage
252+ Atk Life Orb Zacian Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 168-199 (42.6 - 50.5%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO after poison damage
252+ Atk Life Orb Zacian Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 168-199 (42.6 - 50.5%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and burn damage
252+ Atk Life Orb Zacian Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 168-199 (42.6 - 50.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and burn damage

Meanwhile, Zacian-C with support still has much worse probability to beat Quagsire:

252+ Atk Zacian-Crowned Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 159-187 (40.3 - 47.4%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Zacian-Crowned Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 159-187 (40.3 - 47.4%) -- 52.3% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes
252+ Atk Zacian-Crowned Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 159-187 (40.3 - 47.4%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after burn damage
252+ Atk Zacian-Crowned Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 159-187 (40.3 - 47.4%) -- 52.3% chance to 2HKO after poison damage
252+ Atk Zacian-Crowned Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 159-187 (40.3 - 47.4%) -- 50% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and burn damage
252+ Atk Zacian-Crowned Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 159-187 (40.3 - 47.4%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and burn damage (lol, this isn't even guaranteed)

Your point about LO wearing down Zacian. Frankly, wearing down Zacian doesn't matter as long it avoids being revenged by Dugtrio which is in its 50%'s before LO damage. This gives you 5 times to attempt 2hko Quagsire in any various scenario without being eliminated. Zacian-C literally only has to receive chip equivalent to switching into SR twice to invalidate itself to Dugtrio. In my opinion, LO Zacian is superior to Zacian-C because it can actually kill stuff without being instantly trapped. This means that Zacian-C is finding its only niche being inferior to Zacian's LO set and only useful for beating opposing Zacians.

Base form Zacian's main niche seems to be a choice set. The choice band set is extremely dangerous, as you said; it's able to 2HKO quagsire, hippowdon, and do massive damage to the majority of the tier. The problem is that it can be abused through prediction much more than Zacian-C can due to being choice locked.

Please refer to my argument that LO Zacian is in fact better than Zacian-C for the first sentence. I disagree with the notion that it's easy to predict what a choice-locked Zacian will do. This is subjective and contingent to individual players' ability to understand each others plays. Likewise, if you only have Quagsire as your Zacian check on your team for example. Your opponent gonna click Play rough and the spamming will just win. This means that to counter choiced Zacian, you must stack up multiple counters such as Corivknight in combination of Quagsire for example. This shows that Zacian has undeniable influence that exerts massive pressure in teambuilder which Zacian-C fails to do so. This is in fact an argument for an even higher ranking for Zacian. I am being conservative with my suggestion for A+ Zacian.

Galarian Darmanitan is able to switch its moves through Dynamax and it still beats a lot of the pokemon that Zacian does, so you could say that there is a bit of competition there.

Galarian Darmanitan is one dimensional scarf pokemon that is SR weak with no speed control utility. I don't agree that they compete for the same niche, because the only reason to use Darmanitan as a Scarfmon is its access to Dynamax which Zacian doesn't have.

The lack of steel typing is a bit of a double edged sword (lol get it) as well. Yes, pure fairy is arguably better in terms of weaknesses than fairy/steel in this meta due to fire and ground being very common attacking types,

I feel like you're underestimating the utility that being neutral against Dugtrio offers.
252+ Atk Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zacian-Crowned: 266-314 (81.8 - 96.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zacian: 133-157 (40.9 - 48.3%) -- 66.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

but it no longer gives you a resistance to stealth rocks and an immunity to toxic spikes, which makes base form Zacian easier to wear down than its crowned counterpart. I do think that base form Zacian is still very much a threat, and could be placed in A- perhaps, but I don't think it outclasses the crowned form.

Then you go on to argue that it's more easily worn down when Zacian-C is literally deleted by a Dugtrio after being u-turned by a number of checks. There is no remaining possible adaptions that Zacian-C can do to overcome this problem. The point of using Zacian-C is to beat other Zacians and die to Dugtrio immediately. I consider that as a solid B niche. I have a solution for your problem with hazards chipping your Zacian: use HDB Zacian. The possibilities is endless.

However, quagsire is quite a problem in the meta right now, often leaving Zacian-C sitting around for most of the match just by existing, so I could see Zacian-C dropping to somewhere in A+, leaving Eternatus as the sole S rank mon.

I disagree that Quagsire is the primary problem for Zacian-C. Dugtrio is the primary problem. Being deleted after roughly 10% chip is really really bad. Quagsire just compounds Zacian-C's long list of problems.

In my opinion, Zacian-C has a narrow niche of being able to threaten and revenge kill Zacian in a Zacian dominated metagame. Therefore, it deserves a B ranking. I agree that Eternatus should be S. I wouldn't be opposed to Zacian being S.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Zacian B - > S

Zacian @ Life Orb
Ability: Intrepid Sword
EVs: 60 HP / 252 Atk / 192 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Psychic Fangs
- Crunch/Close Combat
- Wild Charge


Zacian is unquestionbly better than Zacian-C and should replace Zacian-C in S rank. Zacian-C has a large number of checks in a single match due it's bad typing, average movepool, and lack of item slot. The resistances of Zacian-C are rendered useless useless in the meta due to excessive amount of fire and ground type pokemon, and mons who can use fire/ground moves.

This Zacian can also beat Scarfed Eternatus one-one-one, which Zacian-C can't.

252+ SpA Eternatus Flamethrower vs. 60 HP / 0 SpD Zacian: 104-123 (30.5 - 36.1%) -- 51.5% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Intrepid Sword Zacian Psychic Fangs vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Eternatus: 325-385 (77.1 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Let's try some other Eternatus set

Cosmic Power Eternatus

252+ Atk Life Orb Intrepid Sword Zacian Psychic Fangs vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eternatus: 296-351 (61.1 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Some other calcs of how it fares against the top defensive mons in Ubers

252+ Atk Life Orb Intrepid Sword Zacian Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 203-239 (48.3 - 56.9%) -- 40.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Intrepid Sword Zacian Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gothitelle: 234-277 (68 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Crunch isn't needed)

252+ Atk Life Orb Intrepid Sword Zacian Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 294-346 (73.5 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Intrepid Sword Zacian Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Corsola-Galar: 179-213 (55.2 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Intrepid Sword Zacian Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 253-298 (64.2 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

It basically twoshots all walls even if they have +defense nature, and the opposition mon can just Toxic it if they survive, or be forced to Dynanax.

Now to see how Zacian fares defensively, this is where it trumps Zacian-C by an immense margin.

252+ Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Iron Head vs. 60 HP / 0 Def Zacian: 264-312 (77.6 - 91.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Intrepid Sword Zacian Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 845-996 (234 - 275.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

That's right, Adamant Excadrill can't OHKO even with Iron Head, assuming it's in sandstorm and outspeed Zacian. Zacian then OHKO it with CC. Now Scarfed Darmanitan.

252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 60 HP / 0 Def Zacian: 195-231 (57.3 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Intrepid Sword Zacian Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Darmanitan-Galar: 504-594 (143.5 - 169.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Zacian survives any move by Darmanitan and OHKO back. Now Scarfed Dugtrio.

252+ Atk Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 60 HP / 0 Def Zacian: 133-157 (39.1 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

The ev spread is to outspeed Modest Specs Eternatus, and reminder ev in HP for bulk. It could be adjusted to however necessary.

Zacian should be S tier not just for the obscene damage it provides, but also because of it's defensive prowess which Zacian-C lacks. It has just one counter and a possible check in Galar Corsola (who can't also switch into crunch), as there are very few steel and poison move users in the tier (Eternatus doesn't run poison, and Zamazenta-C is barely viable). Thanfully, Zacian-C is much easier to check, so it being the sole check/counter to Zacian is a relative minor issue.

 

[orch]

View attachment 217322

Zacian B - > S

Zacian @ Life Orb
Ability: Intrepid Sword
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk /52 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Psychic Fangs
- Crunch
- Wild Charge


Zacian is unquestionbly better than Zacian-C and should replace Zacian-C in S rank. Zacian-C has a large number of checks in a single match due it's bad typing, average movepool, and lack of item slot. The resistances of Zacian-C are rendered useless useless in the meta due to excessive amount of fire and ground type pokemon, and mons who can use fire/ground moves.

Fun fact, Zacian can actually BEAT DITTO one on one and will survive Life Orb recoil. Also, a scarfed imposter Zacian Ditto is nowhere as threatning as imposter Zacian-C Ditto.

+2 252+ Atk Ditto Play Rough vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Zacian: 286-337 (76.2 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Intrepid Sword Zacian Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ditto: 322-379 (107.3 - 126.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

This Zacian can also beat Scarfed Eternatus one-one-one, which Zacian-C can't.

252+ SpA Eternatus Flamethrower vs. 200 HP / 0 SpD Zacian: 104-123 (27.7 - 32.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Intrepid Sword Zacian Psychic Fangs vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Eternatus: 486-572 (115.4 - 135.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

That's correct, Max defense EV Eternatus gets OHKO easily. Eternatus has to run poison moves to beat it. Let's try some other Eternatus set, shall we?

Cosmic Power Eternatus AFTER +1 boost to defense.

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Intrepid Sword Zacian Psychic Fangs vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Eternatus: 296-351 (61.1 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Yes, Zacian can switch into this monster wall after it got +1 boost, and 2hko it even after Leftovers. Eternatus can't stall it.

Some other calcs of how it fares against the top defensive mons in Ubers

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Intrepid Sword Zacian Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 304-359 (72.3 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Intrepid Sword Zacian Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gothitelle: 352-415 (102.3 - 120.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252+ Atk Intrepid Sword Zacian Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 338-398 (84.5 - 99.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Intrepid Sword Zacian Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Corsola-Galar: 270-320 (83.3 - 98.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Intrepid Sword Zacian Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Quagsire: 253-298 (64.2 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

It basically oneshots everything even if they have +defense nature, and the opposition mon can just Toxic it if they survive, or be forced to Dynanax.

Now to see how Zacian fares defensively, this is where it trumps Zacian-C by an immense margin.

252+ Atk Excadrill Iron Head vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Zacian: 264-312 (70.4 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That's right, Adamant Excadrill can't OHKO even with Iron Head, assuming it's in sandstorm and outspeed Zacian. Now Scarfed Darmanitan.

252 Atk Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Zacian: 195-231 (52 - 61.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Zacian survives any move by Darmanitan easily and OHKO back. Now Scarfed Dugtrio.

252+ Atk Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Zacian: 133-157 (35.4 - 41.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO


Zacian should be S tier not just for the obscene damage it provides, but also because of it's defensive prowess which Zacian-C lacks. It has just one counter and practically no checks, as there are very few steel and poison move users in the tier (Eternatus doesn't run poison, and Zamazenta-C is barely viable). Thanfully, Zacian-C is much easier to check, so it being the sole check/counter to Zacian is a relative minor issue.

Your argument is correct, but your calcs are wrong. Intrepid sword adds other +1 attack to your damage, so they're much higher than they are in reality.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Your argument is correct, but your calcs are wrong. Intrepid sword adds other +1 attack to your damage, so they're much higher than they are in reality.

It does? I don't know when it got updated. I will fix it, thanks for letting me know.

 

[JuanchoTacorta]

(Eternatus doesn't run poison, and Zamazenta-C is barely viable)

While I agree with the nom as I've seen many Zacian-Hero on the ladder lately, I've also seen an increasing usage in Sludge Bomb Eternatus not only bacause of Zacian, but also because of the rising usage of Clefable, Sylveon and Hatterene, which shuts down this argument (also Scarf Eternatus runs STAB Poison iirc). It also helps wear down usual Eternatus checks that rely on bulkyness, such as Mandibuzz, Umbreon, or Gastrodon, when it gets the 30% chance to poison.

Calcs

252 SpA Life Orb Eternatus Dynamax Cannon (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mandibuzz: 173-204 (40.8 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Eternatus Dynamax Cannon (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mandibuzz: 173-204 (40.8 - 48.1%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after poison damage
252 SpA Life Orb Eternatus Dynamax Cannon (100 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 188-224 (44.2 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Eternatus Dynamax Cannon (100 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 188-224 (44.2 - 52.7%) -- 83.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and poison damage
252 SpA Life Orb Eternatus Dynamax Cannon (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 138-164 (35 - 41.6%) -- 74.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Eternatus Dynamax Cannon (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 138-164 (35 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery and poison damage

Thus, Zacian-Hero should rise above Zacian-Crowned, but staying at A+ at best.

 

[DragicMag]

While I agree with the nom as I've seen many Zacian-Hero on the ladder lately, I've also seen an increasing usage in Sludge Bomb Eternatus not only bacause of Zacian, but also because of the rising usage of Clefable, Sylveon and Hatterene, which shuts down this argument (also Scarf Eternatus runs STAB Poison iirc). It also helps wear down usual Eternatus checks that rely on bulkyness, such as Mandibuzz, Umbreon, or Gastrodon, when it gets the 30% chance to poison.

Calcs
Thus, Zacian-Hero should rise above Zacian-Crowned, but staying at A+ at best.

I agree with this; Eternatus has definitely been adapting to the meta and is starting to run poison coverage, and additionally, because of the fact that Zacian-C checks Zacian-Hero, I don't think that Zacian-Hero should be S, but A+ seems fitting. I've been using both the choice band and life orb sets, and they are both great, except for the fact that choice band can easily be abused through prediction and life orb sets do get worn down quickly, although that usually isn't a huge issue because Zacian usually only ends up firing a few shots per battle. Still, it is able to tear through just about every pokemon in the meta with much lower risk than Crowned.

As for where Zacian-C should go, I'm not really sure, but possibly A because of it's ability to check its base form and the fact that it can still wreak havoc on teams that don't have a pokemon named Quagsire. With proper hazard and/or status support (poison/burn), Quagsire can actually become possible for Zacian-C to handled. Dugtrio does eliminate Zacian-C after a bit of chip, which is a yikes, but it can actually be quite difficult to trap it without having to sacrifice something else. Interestingly, Zacian-C does have a way to get around Dugtrio trying to revenge kill it through the use of a swords dance boosted quick attack, but that set is very niche due to its lack of coverage. Immunity to toxic spikes is nice too. I don't think it should be lower than A- because of the aforementioned reasons, but not as high as it is due to quagsire walling it and it's extremely common weaknesses.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

While I agree with the nom as I've seen many Zacian-Hero on the ladder lately, I've also seen an increasing usage in Sludge Bomb Eternatus not only bacause of Zacian, but also because of the rising usage of Clefable, Sylveon and Hatterene, which shuts down this argument (also Scarf Eternatus runs STAB Poison iirc). It also helps wear down usual Eternatus checks that rely on bulkyness, such as Mandibuzz, Umbreon, or Gastrodon, when it gets the 30% chance to poison.

Calcs

252 SpA Life Orb Eternatus Dynamax Cannon (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mandibuzz: 173-204 (40.8 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Eternatus Dynamax Cannon (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mandibuzz: 173-204 (40.8 - 48.1%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after poison damage
252 SpA Life Orb Eternatus Dynamax Cannon (100 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 188-224 (44.2 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Eternatus Dynamax Cannon (100 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 188-224 (44.2 - 52.7%) -- 83.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and poison damage
252 SpA Life Orb Eternatus Dynamax Cannon (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 138-164 (35 - 41.6%) -- 74.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Eternatus Dynamax Cannon (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 138-164 (35 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery and poison damage

Thus, Zacian-Hero should rise above Zacian-Crowned, but staying at A+ at best.

Zacian would still be more viable than Zacian-S even if Eternatus runs Poison moves, and it will also force Eternatus lose 1 moveslot to make room for Sludge Bomb. Unlike Zacian-S, Zacian can actually run a Swords Dance set since it won't have to worry about getting walled by Quagsire, so Eternatus will be forced to run Scarf if Zacian runs Jolly set, otherwise Zacian will sweep the team. As for Scarf Poison Eternatus, it can be predicted quite easily. The other fairies aren't as viable yet for Eternatus to run poison consistently yet. For the time being, Zacian definitely deserves the S rank until metagame catches up, which hasn't yet due to how overused Zacian-S is.

Zacian is the best wallbreaker in the tier and still much, much more flexible than Zacian-S due to having far less checks and having an item slot, which makes it much more unpredictable and it can have varied ev spread to make it more bulky. Unlike Zacian-S, Zacian can actually run a Swords Dance set since it won't have to worry about getting walled by Quagsire.

 

[Jibaku]

Posting to point out that Quagsire does in fact wall SD base Zacian, unless it has Power Herb Solar Blade (in which case hats off)

252 Atk Life Orb Zacian Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 153-183 (38.8 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Zacian Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 168-199 (42.6 - 50.5%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO

 

[orch]

I agree with this; Eternatus has definitely been adapting to the meta and is starting to run poison coverage, and additionally, because of the fact that Zacian-C checks Zacian-Hero, I don't think that Zacian-Hero should be S, but A+ seems fitting. I've been using both the choice band and life orb sets, and they are both great, except for the fact that choice band can easily be abused through prediction and life orb sets do get worn down quickly, although that usually isn't a huge issue because Zacian usually only ends up firing a few shots per battle. Still, it is able to tear through just about every pokemon in the meta with much lower risk than Crowned.

As for where Zacian-C should go, I'm not really sure, but possibly A- because of it's ability to check its base form and the fact that it can still wreak havoc on teams that don't have a pokemon named Quagsire. With proper hazard and/or status support (poison/burn), Quagsire can actually become possible for Zacian-C to handled. Dugtrio does eliminate Zacian-C after a bit of chip, which is a yikes, but it can actually be quite difficult to trap it without having to sacrifice something else. Interestingly, Zacian-C does have a way to get around Dugtrio trying to revenge kill it through the use of a swords dance boosted quick attack, but that set is very niche due to its lack of coverage. Immunity to toxic spikes is nice too. I don't think it should be lower than A- because of the aforementioned reasons, but not as high as it is due to quagsire walling it and it's extremely common weaknesses.

+2 Quick attack doesn't ohko dynamax Dugtrio, therefore Dugtrio still has room to outplay Zacian-C and counter it.

 

[Cuddly]

Hey there! Thanks for finally freeing the VR thread. Here's my opinions on what VR should look like.

Zacian-C S -> B

Don't get me wrong, Zacian-C is an okay pokemon with a narrow niche. The problem with Zacian-C is that it's unable to adapt to the metagame changes. I believe that the options for adaptions has been maxed out due to its shallow movepool. This is an issue because it means that every single team can be prepared for Zacian-C and be essentially guaranteed to beat it from the preview. You could argue that the only reason that this is happening is because Zacian-C is so blatantly powerful. IMO, the teambuilding pressure is actually coming from normal Zacian, and Zacian-C is being passively checked alongside. In addition, Zacian-C suffers from opportunity cost from Zacian with its superior typing and free item slot which enable much more adaptability.

Zacian B -> A+

Zacian is fast and powerful pokemon that is definitely better than its Crowned version. Choice band sets 2hkos the whole tier. There is no counter for this set. Its typing allows it to be only trapped by Dugtrio in its 40%'s, while Zacian-C is trapped after 1 Substitute chip. Zacian can use Choice scarf to become a powerful speed control tool. Zacian can use LO to become an even more powerful sweeper that can choose moves. In addition, since Eternatus has been forgoing poison move for Flamethrower, Zacian is an excellent check vs Eternatus and immediately threaten the rest of the team. Zacian has item slot which allows it endless amount of adaptions compared to its inferior form.

Aegislash A- -> C+

Aegislash is only useful for beating Hatterene using Occa berry and Steel beam. Aegislash does not beat Zacian nor Eternatus. The majority of tier threatens to beat it with the spamming of Dark, Ground, and Fire moves. Oh did I mention that Eternatus totally wall this pokemon?

Hippopowdon A- -> C-

A really really bad pokemon. Hippowodon seems like a nice pokemon from the first glance. However, it has severe problems with its niche. In theory, you would use Hippowodon for Sand, Zacian check, and Stealth rock. Firstly, Hippowodon is an extremely poor Zacian check. It only manages to check Zacian as long it's only +1 attack. If you're facing a Ditto that copied your Zacian. Hippowodon loses. If you're facing a CB Zacian. Hippowodon loses. If you're facing SD Zacian. Hippowodon loses. The stealth rock niche is not great one, since it is unable to threaten common defoggers such as Corviknight and Mandibuzz. The best it can do is sit there and gets PP stalled in the long run. The sand niche is better served by Tyranitar. Since Tyranitar has actually useful niches outside of sand, it is able to offer vastly more options in exchange for just one team slot. Much more than what Hippo has to offer.

Rotom-H B+ -> A-

Rotom-H is much better than pokemon like Ferrothorn for sure. Rotom-H has useful and powerful niches. It is able to offensively/defensively threaten Zacian, Zacian-C, Corviknight, Excadrill, Darmanitan, and Sableye while spreading burn and volt-switching. Some may would point out that Quagsire is very common and totally walls Rotom-H, however Quagsire will get burned and you can use that as an advantage for your own Zacian. In addition, CB Zamazenta 2hkos Rotom-H, so you can use it to burn and render Zamazenta useless.

Technically Speaking, Steelix is only 3HKO’d by the Standard CB set of Fire Fang, Play Rough, Psychic Fangs, and Facade. Also Pyukumuku is able to protect to get 2 Leftover Heals so it is not 2HKO’d by CB Zacian-H
But even without this technicality (since Steelix isn’t exactly a Meta Mon (yet)), being able to 2HKO Quagsire and only being weak to Excadrill’s weaker STAB is pretty much the only thing Zacian-H has over Zacian-C.
It feels like the early days of XY, where some people were saying Regular Scizor was better than Mega Scizor, simply because CB and Life Orb did more damage (and fittingly enough, CB Scizor could 2HKO Quagsire with Bug Bite while Mega Scizor couldn’t).
The longevity provided by Zacian-C’s steel typing shouldn’t go unnoticed simply because Quagsire isn’t 2HKO’d by it, and by a tiny margin of 10% to 3%.
The fact that you need a Quagsire (which has sky rocketed in usage from USUM Ubers at 0.036~% usage to 32.8%), you need to have absolutely no hazards up at all times (which is hard since Mega Mawile on crack roams Ubers that’s almost the size of Gen 2 Ubers), and you need Quagsire to be healthy all the time (which is harder than it sounds), speaks volume of how good Zacian-C is. Putting it at B rank would be an injustice.
And while Zacian with CB and Life Orb can tear through Quagsire and make it harder for other walls, it makes it easier to revenge kill and exploit, while making its longevity worse.
CB, although able to beat Steelix and Pyukumuku (if or when they become meta) with the right coverage, will be forced out more times than not since CB only lets you pick your coverage when entering battle. And even with the coverage like Close Combat and Wild Charge, it will then be beaten by something else. It locking itself into CB also means something that resists its current move (like Zacian-C against Psychic Fangs or Play Rough) can use that to its advantage.
LO can be a good middle ground between coverage and power, but it also makes Zacian-H easier to revenge kill with something like Excadrill when used a few times when accounting for Sand. And also like before, Pyukumuku can easily chip down Zacian with Toxic without the need for protect (unless it has wild charge), which is something Zacian-C has to worry less about.
There also exists Knock Off, Trick, and Switcheroo that can cripple Zacian-H, while Zacian-C will always have Rusted Sword.
But I can see your points. Zacian-H is definitely strong, but so is Zacian-C, which can last longer. So Zacian-H can be better for later in the match and against certain teams.
Zacian-H B -> A-
Zacian-C stays the same

 

[GG Unit]

Nominating Glalie for B/B+ rank.

Glalie @ Leftovers
Ability: Moody
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Protect
- Freeze-Dry
- Bulldoze

It's able to come in on a lot of Zacian checks and start boosting from there. Freeze Dry gets a super-effective STAB hit on the tier's main users of Unaware and Haze while Bulldoze helps Glalie keep outspeeding things and prevents it from being set-up bait for Zacian-C. As an added bonus, it's about as Imposter-proof as can be and really takes advantage of teams that lean too heavily on Ditto for dealing with stat boosters. Glalie can call on Dynamax to secure a KO or avoid getting phazed (Max Hailstorm provides some nice chip damage that synergizes well with stalling for more boosts and can also turn the tide on opponents trying to revenge kill with weather abusers), but at the same time it doesn't rely too heavily on Dynamaxing to boost up and can coexist with teammates that do. Even in bad matchups it can still provide a little defensive utility by scouting Choice users or wasting extra Dynamax turns/Ditto PP without having to put your heavy hitters at risk.

 

[CreamyGlasses]

I disagree that Quagsire is the primary problem for Zacian-C. Dugtrio is the primary problem. Being deleted after roughly 10% chip is really really bad. Quagsire just compounds Zacian-C's long list of problems.

Long list of problems? Zacian-C has two: unaware users and dugtrio. Both of which are completely invalidated by sun booster solar blade. If you lack quag, Zacian-C can get in on soooooooo much with that typing and can force dyna even without boosts. S+tier, better than etarnatus imo. Even with no support, if you can literally chip quag like 60% (which isn't that hard cause its stats are terrible lmao) it will probably sweep. Even if you bring zacian, their quag can't do jack shit while your Zacian-C is alive, lest it lose the 1v1.

 

[Nayrz]

Due to the current state of the VR (its grown dated quickly) we decided to do a quick update to reflect trends and add mons that Most Wanted have shown us can work after internal discussion. Note that the new additions are very preliminary positions subject to further review with the next actual update - this means no sheet for these movements for now. Also the council has a new addition in Reje, welcome aboard.

The next full update is pending news about Pokemon Home and what it brings to the tier. If Home brings no new Pokemon, we will aim to do a full update after Most Wanted and carry on as usual until DLC 1 (June). If Home brings new Pokemon such as the old Ubers currently present in the game code, we will have to reassess the state of the VR and be ready to revamp it entirely. Previews to suit the new additions are also on hold for this reason, but keep an eye out for the actual update post MW that will give details on what the mons do if you are unfamiliar. Alternatively ask around in our SQSA or Discord.

(Fast) Update:

Zacian-C: S >> A+
Corviknight: A+ >> S
Gothitelle: A+ >> S
Galarian Darmanitan: A- >> A
Snorlax: UR >> B+
Pyukumuku: UR >> B
Lapras: UR >> C+
Glalie: UR >> C+

Expect the upcoming full update to be a large one.

 

[Manaphy]

keep in mind since the above passed thru pretty quickly the council wanted it to basically be 100% airtight, some members of the council are thinking of moving things around like:
Chandelure UR -> Ranked (Trick Room is decent and Sub/Wisp/Pain Split is pretty good)
Tyranitar A -> A+
Dugtrio A- -> A+
Quagsire A -> A-
Ditto A+ -> A/A-
Zamazenta A -> lower
but tbh they’re pretty small debatable changes right before home comes out so meh. still figured it was worth mentioning in this thread

 

[Rarycaris]

Long list of problems? Zacian-C has two: unaware users and dugtrio.

Ditto is also a significant problem unless you've specifically built to counter it.

 

[QuagsireBiscuit]

Ok so Zacian Crowned should stay were it is let me explain to you why.

1. It forces teams to have 2-3 checks to it so they don't just auto loose.
2. You make it sound like it has checks that deal with it all the time.
3. It's defensive typing is good.
4. Quickest viable non scarf Mon in the tier.
5. The second that you under estimate it will become a problem and it will be in same spot again.

 

[DragicMag]

Maybe I'm missing the point, but I don't really see what makes Aegislash A-. I think it should drop to B or B-. It loses to tons of the top offensive threats, like Eternatus and Excadril, and Zacian-C has room to outplay kings shield with swords dance and substitute. It can switch into Zamazenta, but has no reliable recovery, so Galarian Corsola is arguably a better zama check. It does have nice offenses and good coverage in ghost/fighting/steel to threaten mons like tyrannitar and Zacian and it avoids trapping with its ghost type. That keeps it out of C rank imo but it doesn't seem that great to me to be ranked in A.