Resource SS UU Crown Tundra Viability Ranking Thread

Rae

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Howdy there good people! I'm here to make a few noms and give my thoughts on some noms!

:ss/krookodile:

Agree: Krook's the tier's best scarfer imo. It's a valuable member on every team it's on. It's utility is great, with Intimidate, Knock Off and Stealth Rocks, while being a super scary threat in the meta.

:ss/Azelf:


Definitely higher: While I don't think that Azelf should be A-, I do think that it's very much undervalued. Being the 3rd fastest Pokemon in the tier is great, and it has a wide range of offensive and utility moves. I personally think it should go up to about B/B+.

:ss/Lycanroc-Dusk:

Agree: Doggo does bits. It's speed tier is great, Accelerock is fantastic and it can deal with many offensive threats in the tier. Both a Sash and a Life Orb can be threatening, and to repeat what Celebii said, Sash is soul-crushing especially when you think you've dealt with it.

:ss/Tyrantrum:

Higher, Higher!: This terrifying T-Rex is absolutely amazing, and by that i mean i'm incredibly biased because i like rock types and fossil mons. Tyrantrum can be extremely frightening thanks to it's DD set, with the capabilities of outspeeding Zera if it's adamant. The calcs for this bad boy are absolutely nutty, and I'm personally nomming it for B.

Other noms i agree with:

:glastrier: C+
:Tentacruel: B
:Moltres-galar: A
:Gyarados: :Rotom-Wash: A-
:Kyurem: A+
:Scizor: S
 
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Hilomilo

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Here's our update for the post-Latias metagame! Thanks for all the great discussion we've seen this time. Aside from these changes, one thing to note is that C and C- have now been merged together, as the VR team decided that a C- rank wasn't quite necessary due to the general lack of difference in viability between the Pokemon in both ranks. My last announcement is that if there's a change that didn't go through, you can always hit me up either here on forums or on discord to ask why that may be the case. Thanks again, and here are our changes:
Rises
:Scizor: from A+ to S: Scizor has continued developing into the tier’s most important and centralizing sweeper, its defensive utility notably improving following the Latias ban. The bulky SD + Knock Off set is excellent at playing the long game against checks, overwhelming them in the long-term, while Choice Band and offensive SD also employ fantastic options for bypassing checks. Capable of circumventing nearly all of its counterplay more effectively than anything else in the tier, Scizor has established huge importance in building urgency and influencing metagame trends.

:Victini: from A+ to S: Victini’s special boots set has become central in the metagame thanks to the threat of Blue Flare, the momentum and progress it forces with U-turn, and the excellent customizability its movepool yields allowing it to muscle past the majority of its counterplay. Additionally, Band/Scarf sets still pose huge threats, and Latias leaving has only increased its splashability. Victini’s offensive pressure, versatility, and splashability have been huge in rising it to the top of the meta and centralizing several of the tier’s developments around it, which makes it well worth a spot in S.

:Amoonguss: from A to A+: With consistent usage in tours and high level play since the new metagame’s beginning, Amoonguss has proven its importance as one of the best defensive options available. Between the threat of Spore, its ability to check important stuff like Zeraora/Primarina/Keldeo, and scouting Choice users like Terrakion and Scizor, it just accomplishes a lot right now and makes for a strong, easy fit on many builds.

:Krookodile: from A to A+: Krookodile is a key glue on several team structures, compressing a ton of useful tools between its typing/ability/knock to hold a niche as the tier’s best scarfer while still performing well with Stealth Rock sets. It’s simply an excellent supportive presence and can tie teams together quite convincingly, which has made it splashable enough to manage a rise to A+.

:Kyurem: from A- to A: Kyurem lost both heavy competition and a solid revenge killer upon Latias’s departure, largely freeing up its opportunities to excel offensively. Its coverage makes Choice Specs among the most immediately threatening breakers in the tier, while SubRoost sets have also picked up again for their reliability in taking advantage of many defensive staples.

:Skarmory: from A- to A: Skarmory has seen a significant surge lately, offering a check to top Pokemon like Terrakion, Scizor, and more recently trending threats like Gyarados and Lycanroc-D. With Roost it makes for one of the tier’s steadiest Steel-types, while Spikes only furthers its applications and the overall utility it currently offers.

:Chandelure: from B+ to A-: Chandelure’s usage has steadily increased, its ability to bypass virtually every relevant Ghost resist making it one of the tier’s most overtly threatening wallbreakers. It offers excellent versatility between Specs/Hex/SubCM, which can all thrive in relevant matchups and bypass its different means of counterplay, while taking advantage of meta staples like Scizor/bulky grasses/Skarmory/Victini to find breaking opportunities.

:Rhyperior: from B+ to A-: Rhyperior is a fairly splashable option right now thanks to its ability to combat Zeraora more effectively than nearly anything else in the tier. With Solid Rock it can 1v1 or trade with presences like Salamence/Victini/Lycanroc, offering a unique blend of defensive utility and difficulty to switch into compared to other trending Ground-types.

:Seismitoad: from B- to B: Seismitoad is on a bit of a come-up recently, offering great role compression with rocks sets. It can reliably handle Zeraora while blanketing foes like Lycanroc and Victini, though it makes excellent additional progress with Knock Off and Toxic in its arsenal and the situational utility the Water immunity can provide every now and then, capitalizing on choice-locked Primarina/Keldeo/Azumarill.

:Starmie: from B- to B: Starmie has a lot to love as an offensive presence right now, its Speed tier proving excellent with Terrakion, Keldeo, and Salamence all on top of the meta and its coverage and Analytic being pretty nasty for most teams to deal with. Although it isn’t quite mainstream yet, its tools were being understated in B-.

:Zarude: from B- to B: Although it was better with Latias in the tier, Zarude has proven to be one of the meta’s better options for scarfers thanks to the tools it compresses with its typing, natural bulk, and pivoting. Bulk Up + Jungle Healing sets have also seen sparing usage, effectively taking advantage of Slowking.

:Palossand: from C+ to B-: Palossand has carved enough of a recent niche to crack into the B rankings, providing virtually the only counter to Terrakion while also matching up excellently against the ever-present Zeraora. It also sports some neat tools over most other relevant Ground-types, like reliable recovery and a U-turn resistance.

:Glastrier: from UR to C: Glastrier has seen enough exploration on traditional builds to warrant a spot in the ranks, offering great synergy with VoltTurn staples and a key ability to trade with pretty much the entire physical metagame thanks to its amazing power and bulk. Its typing and Speed can be easy to take advantage of, though it has definitely carved a recent niche.

:Golurk: from UR to C: Golurk has enough of a niche for a rank thanks to the huge threat it poses with its excellent STAB combo, keeping the meta’s defensive backbones on their toes. It’s a decent pick on certain offenses that can safely pivot it into play, its coverage having virtually no steady switch-ins, though its typing can also be nice for pivoting in on Terrakion.

:Milotic: from UR to C: Milotic finds a few key ways to distinguish itself over other bulky Water-types to carve a small niche, justifying a spot in the ranks. With Flip Turn and Heavy-Duty Boots employed, it makes for an awesome check to Victini and mixed Kommo-o that can offer sturdier matchups against various threats than Slowking and co, such as Alakazam, Scizor, and Chandelure. The greater capacity it has to run options like Toxic/Haze/Ice Beam is also really neat at times.

:Tyrantrum: from UR to C: Although it lacks defensive utility and its STAB moves aren’t the most reliable, Tyrantrum is a ridiculously powerful force with STAB Head Smash that can find a solid place on various HOs. Dragon Dance and banded sets both have decent claim, applying huge pressure to both offensive builds and defensive cores.

:Vileplume: from UR to C: Its competition from Amoonguss may be steep, but Vileplume manages just enough unique niches as a defensive Pokemon to find a spot in the ranks. It’s way stronger, is particularly better in the Kommo-o matchup thanks to Moonblast, can abuse Strength Sap more easily with Tentacruel falling off, and has unique utility with Strength Sap and Corrosive Gas if it can be fitted. Although still very niche, it has enough clear applications for some love in the VR.

Drops
:Azumarill: from A+ to A: Although it is still one of the best wallbreakers in the tier, Azumarill has become pretty well adjusted to in building as several teams feature at least one of Tangrowth/Amoonguss/Zeroara. Its iffy longevity and low Speed can be easy to take advantage of, especially as more offensive and defensive countermeasures naturally find places on teams.

:Jirachi: from A+ to A: Jirachi’s utility lost a significant amount of its urgency in building once Latias left the tier, while several top threats that can overwhelm it fairly easily still remain. It has also begun facing more competition for a slot with Skarmory surging, while offensive sets still have yet to seriously take off in this metagame.

:Tangrowth: from A+ to A: Tangrowth is marginally worse than Amoonguss enough for them to swap rankings at this stage of the meta. It really isn’t as sturdy a Terrakion answer lately with most sets employing Megahorn, while Amoonguss also very clearly prevails with Spore and in key matchups like Keldeo and Primarina. Tangrowth’s utility movepool, excellent Defense, and Ground resistance are all well worth keeping it in A and no lower, however.

:Tapu Bulu: from A+ to A-: Tapu Bulu has pretty noticeably fallen off from its former top-tier status, with many teams having no shortage of solid, naturally fitted checks to it. Defensive Grass-types, Skarmory, Scizor, and a whole host of offensive counterplay are all commonplace on builds and pretty significantly stint Bulu’s progress, though enabling Grassy Seed sweepers is still a solid niche, and with the proper support it can still be a fine breaker/sweeper.

:Conkeldurr: from A- to B+: Conkeldurr is really weighed down by its poor Speed and longevity in a metagame well equipped to apply pressure to it. There are just many more options for breakers that give it competition due to the better overall utility they provide, despite Conkeldurr’s impressive sheer power.

:Diggersby: from A- to B+: Diggersby is another breaker that, despite its insane power, struggles to keep up due to its poor Speed and defensive utility. The current ease of offensively overwhelming just makes it hard to find significant breaking opportunities, and in general it’s rather unproven right now.

:Nihilego: from A- to B+: Nihilego can absolutely wreck the late-game with its Meteor Beam sets and makes for a solid entry hazard setter, but is still pretty awkward given the tier’s bevy of priority that threatens it, as well as staples like Slowking, Nidoqueen, and Terrakion giving it a hard time. It’s very potent, but just isn’t consistent enough for the A-ranks currently.

:Tentacruel: from A- to B+: Tentacruel’s immediate utility has fallen off pretty notably as Celesteela has become a less urgent Pokemon to account for in building. It’s been hurt by a lot of upward trends, like Kyurem and Victini, and due to its iffy Defense and tendency to try compressing too many roles, can’t make for as sturdy a check to Scizor/Keldeo/Azumarill as it’d like to be.

:Ditto: from B to B-: Ditto’s niche will always be particular enough for it to have some place in the metagame, though it really hasn’t shown up enough to justify its ranking and suffers pretty significant splashability issues. Always a weird Pokemon to try ranking, but B doesn’t currently seem to be the right fit.

:Doublade: from B to B-: Doublade has a place as a strong check to Terrakion that can also blanket foes like Azumarill and Lycanroc. However, its proneness to being worn down, lack of Stealth Rock, Knock Off weakness, and shaky matchups against prominent special attackers all complicate its splashability in comparison to the tier's other Steel-types, while its shoddy immediate power can also be a problem with Tangrowth/Amoonguss/Skarmory all being defensive staples.

:Stakataka: from B to B-: Stakataka’s claim as one of the better pivots into Latias no longer holds weight, which gives its OTR set less opportunities to set up due to its slightly awkward typing. Cleaning sets are inconsistent, while defensive hazard sets suffer pretty intense competition from the bevy of other available options, which justifies a drop.

:Togekiss: from B to B-: Togekiss continues dropping as the meta continues to hit it with unfavorable trends. It really struggles to circumvent all of its current weaknesses with Zeraora, Scizor, and Terrakion all on top of the metagame, while other stallbreakers can offer far more offensive/defensive utility with the current makeup of the tier.

:Noivern: from B- to C+: Salamence has only persisted as a top threat, which has further served to make Noivern incredibly niche. At this point its only use really lies in the Speed control it brings against Pokemon like Terrakion and stuff like Alakazam, though this is only all too useful when you’re really strapped for slots and need to compress traits with Noivern.

:Sharpedo: from C+ to C: Sharpedo has lost its staple status on a lot of HOs, its issues fitting all the coverage it’d like really preventing it from consistently breaking in the late-game and mandating more support than ever, though it can still work as a pick on various hazard stacking builds.

:Barbaracle::Cresselia::Golisopod::Marowak-Alola::Mudsdale::Salazzle: from C to UR: All of the listed Pokemon just don’t have niches strong enough for ranks right now. Barbaracle is far more inconsistent than HO’s several other options for sweepers, Cresselia doesn’t really manage a notable niche over Reuniclus or Galarian Slowbro, Alolan Marowak and Salazzle face pretty steep competition from other breakers with similar typings/roles, Mudsdale is hard to justify over the tier’s bevy of better Ground-types, and Golisopod’s tools are a bit too niche to consistently find use in the meta.
 
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Hilomilo

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Discussion Points
Reuniclus B+ -> A- or
Slowbro-Galar A- -> B+: The VR team has hit a slight crossroad in trying to figure out how to accurately rank Reuniclus and Galarian Slowbro given some of their similarities in the metagame. Whether they’re worth swapping ranks, existing in the same one, or staying where they are is worth more extensively discussing.

Slowking A -> A+: Slowking has continued to flourish defensively, offering one of the meta’s most reliable pivots into Victini, keeping troublesome Pokemon like Keldeo/Nidoqueen/special Salamence in check, and excellently abusing some of the best tools around in Teleport and potentially Future Sight. The utility it offers is top-notch, which could be well worth a rise to A+ at this point despite top presences like Zeraora and Chandelure being able to power through it.

Chansey A -> A-: Chansey’s utility lost a good amount of its urgency with Latias leaving the tier, and it can also struggle cleanly fitting on non-stall builds over more splashable defensive pivots like Slowking. Special attackers that can bypass it, like Alakazam and Chandelure, have also improved in the metagame, though Chansey does still offer a key answer to defining threats like special Victini and Primarina.

Alakazam A- -> A: Latias’s departure has hugely freed up Alakazam’s applications, giving it more opportunity to excel as a breaker. It’s still held back by its major frailty, but has really established a larger place recently with the immediate threat STAB/Focus Blast/Shadow Ball poses and the excellent progress Knock Off in the fourth slot forces against its checks, making them far easier to bypass. Its Speed tier is also great in a Terrakion-ruled tier.

Magnezone B+ -> A-: It was on the verge of a drop not long ago, though recently Magnezone has really found some great ways to apply its utility. It capitalizes on the large places Scizor, Skarmory, and Celesteela all have in the tier, freeing up opportunities for teammates like Terrakion and Alakazam to sweep/break. It’s also a fine standalone breaking presence thanks to its solid STAB combination, though it can face some adversity as a Steel-type that generally lacks defensive applications.

Zarude B -> B+: Zarude has been on the come-up as a Scarfer lately, its splashability serving to net a place on teams a lot more recently. It could continue rising to reflect its increased place in the metagame, though it does suffer a bit in the post Latias metagame, especially as Scizor/Amoonguss/Skarmory further define their places as staples.

Gastrodon B- -> B: Gastrodon does a lot of things well in the metagame right now. Being one of the few viable Ground-types with recovery can prove vital in the Zeraora matchup, though it also switches in on both Rotom formes and can blanket foes like Victini, Lycanroc, and the tier’s many Water-type breakers with Storm Drain. It is held back a fair amount by its lack of Stealth Rock access, however, which notably eats into its splashability in various instances.

Umbreon C -> C+: Umbreon has been explored a bit more as an option on fat builds, offering one of the sturdier matchups available against a rising threat in Chandelure. Its typing and mixed bulk can also serve it well against Pokemon like Salamence, Victini, Alakazam, and more, though it is still notably held back by its major weakness to the ever-present Terrakion, as well as other Fighting-types like Kommo-o and Keldeo.
 
I think Starmie to B might be a tini tiny bit overhyped and I'm not sure it's as great in practice as it is cool in our heads. But other than that I think all of the adjustments made were good adjustments.

However,

:ss/Azelf:

RE-NOMMING from C+ to B

The constant Azelf disrespect has hit a record high. If Zeraora didn't exist in this meta, Azelf would be an easy A rank. There's nearly nothing that can really stop it from doing its job of setting rocks, and it's the fastest taunter besides Prankster Grimm to prevent fog, plus it can explode for momentum, or pivot out, or knock your item, or threaten Scizor with flame, or do lots of other things that nothing else in the tier has the Speed + Flexibility to do. C+ is not where it's at. It is more useful than every single Pokemon in B- rank currently. It's not going to go away - people keep using it because it's a fast and reliable rock setter with access to Taunt and high offensive capabilities once its job is done. And if you're like me you can use it for other things to like screens. This is a much more urgent and emergency discussion matter than the other discussion points.

EDIT:

Here are some replays of me laddering on an alt with NP Adrenaline Orb Azelf:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1287255886
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1287260137-clrn0rwgyvpbixm78ta1nod8zurqk85pw
 
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Slowking A -> A+: Agree

I think Hilo summed it up pretty well, but I would like to add a little. There's a lot of cool options that Slowking could abuse during Latias meta, and those options have just exploded further with Latias leaving. Generally, at least from what I've seen and used, Scald/Psyshock(Future Sight)/Teleport are standard, or some combination of those 4+Slack Off sometimes. The 4th slot generally is either the previously mentioned Slack Off or some form of Status, like Thunder Wave (which was more common during more Latias era but w/e). However, with Latias no longer here, i've been trying options like Ice Beam, Yawn, or Flamethrower. Calm Mind is also an option, but I haven't specifically tried it. Overall, Slowking has more room for customization, alongside what Hilo said, enabling it to be more versatile and overall better in the metagame.



Gastrodon B- -> B: Agree

Another fat water that I love currently. While the lack of Stealth Rocks does make it not entirely splashable, it being a defensive Ground that doesn't completely suffer from losing it's item, unlike Nidoqueen (which isnt a defensive Ground type, but you know what I mean). Like the Slowking point, Hilo did a good job of summarizing why Gastro is Godstro. However, I think that SpDef sets are worth a mention as well. While being notably worse vs the likes of non-CM Zeraora, Physical variants of Victini, and the rock monsters, SpDef Gastro matches up very well vs NP Thundy (both), Special Salamence, Nidoqueen, and CM Jirachi lacking Energy Ball. While it definitely has it's issues, its 100% a set worth exploring and favors current metagame trends as a whole, physdef or spdef. So yea, try Gastro.

As far as anything else I really either don't care or am not informed enough to make a concise judgement about it. However, I will breifly comment on the Azelf thing. Azelf is way too frail in a metagame of strong priority and common offensive mons that straight up outrun it. While it is decent at what it does, I don't think it's justifiable in this offensive metagame to place Azelf any higher then B- atm.
 

Monky25

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Welp, time to speed run some nominations as well as respond to the discussion points.
- Personally I think both should be B+. I was always confused at glowbro's ranking, I haven't seen much of it even after watching some tour games more. I just don't see it on the other A- level mons and I think it should be B+, despite it being an underrated wincon. Same with Reuni, it's a good wincon but I think A- is a bit of a stretch due to its lack of splashability atm.
- agree to A-. It blanket checks nearly all of our special attackers, but the reasoning says it all. It faces lots of competition with slowking as a spdef wall and stuff like zam, chandelure, rest talk moltres, and physical attacking clanger are becoming more common for it to deal with. Still good, just not as good as the other A mons.
- agree to A+ as well. Its such a reliable defensive pivot, can provide valuable support with future sight and thunder wave, plus it is hard to KO thanks to good mixed bulk, slack off, and regenerator. It is weak to common mons like scizor, zera, and moves like knock off, but I find it a tier staple and good enough to be A+.
- on the fence, but lean towards A. Zam is super threatening as a breaker and its speed tier is amazing, but priority does cuck it to a degree, plus focus blast missing is a pain. Personally I think it can rise, but its something I could change my mind about in the future.
-disagree to B+. Believe me, I love monkeys. My username has monky in it. Alas, I just find the grasses and skarm are too prevalent to keep it from doing major damage and it ends up being a U-turn bot for a while. Still, its one of our best scarfers, and it can be paired with something like chandelure or victini to abuse the switches. Still, I need a bit more time with this mon before I fully support a rise to B+.
- stay at B+. I was a proponent of zone dropping, but since that's unlikely to happen I'd keep it at B+. I've tried it out a bit with drag mag teams and often its such a momentum sink versus grounds, not to mention it doesn't trap too reliably and faces a lot of electric competition from zeraora. It should stay in B+
- stay in B-. Gastro does have its niches, but often times I just see them done better by other rockers, which is a huge opportunity cost. I wouldn't say it blankets victini since the special boots set (the most common one) runs energy ball so it gets nailed there. It does decently check azu, lycan, and counters the rotom forms, but so does toad and at the price of recovery it offers more role compression. I just feel it should be B-, its kind of like a gut feeling even if I cannot put it into words.
- honestly C+ and C are the same shit in my eyes I don't care if it rises or not.
- reiterating this nom but I think rotom-C should be Unranked. It faces way to much competition from the other rotom forms, grasses, and electrics to justify a ranking, and unlike the others which either fit on specific playstyles or have their small niche I don't see anything from this guy. Really think it should be UR.

Down below are some nominations that did not happen even though I still believe they should have, so maybe an explanation from the VR team could help myself and others understand why.
- to sum these up, gyarados is still a nasty sweeper under HO with a nutty snowball potential and even if bounce isn't the most reliable at times, it is certainly more threatening than anything in B+ and arguably even more than things like thundurus or glowbro, both who reside in A-. Galarian Moltres is a similar story, double dance sets are terrifying and rest talk has even been used to combat stall. It is extremely threating and like gyarados I do not get why it hasn't risen. As for thundurus, I get the speed tier is nice, but it just isn't as good as zeraora and faces way to much competition from it. It also has 4MSS for the NP set, plus its somewhat frail. A pivot set is ok with knock and u-turn, but once again faces too much competition with zeraora in my opinion and that's why I think it should go down to B+. Once again, some reasoning for why these changes didn't happen would be well appreciated considering most of the posters here supported these changes. Regardless, great update and I look forward to more discussions!
 
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Band

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Discussion Points
Reuniclus: Stay in B+
I admittedly haven't used Reuni as much as I have used Slowbro, but I assume they work in a similar enough way. Reuni serves as a great late-game wincon, sure, but it just can't keep up with the meta. Its HP is good, but its bulk isn't enough, and Pokemon like Scizor and Victini just capitalize on it so much with resisting its moves and U-turning out of it to bring another answer like Krook.

Slowbro-Galar: Drop to B+
Grassy Seed sets are fun, but once terrain is over, every Ground just shits on it. I don't see it at the same level of other A- mons like Alakazam, Tapu Bulu, and Lycanroc-D. Also its bulk isn't good before it gets a few CMs up, which is just hard to do since so many stuff forces it out.

Slowking: Rise to A+
One of our best answers to Terrakion, Keldeo and Salamence, all top tier threats. The utility it provides with Teleport is just INSANE, and futureport is just as broken as it was on DLC1 meta, especially paired with terrak and clanger. Keeping other things like Jirachi in check is also cool, and I think we could experiment with other moves like Ice Beam and Thunder Wave especifically for mons like mence and terrak. Also it's one of the only reliable switch-ins to Nidoqueen.

Chansey: Drop to A-
Hilo basically said it all already, the meta adapted very well to Chansey with knock zam, taunt + hex chandy, trick mons like tini and rachi, and terrak, zera, azu, and sciz on the rise don't benefit it, since they all carry Knock.

Alakazam: Rise to A
LO NP hits absurdly hard, so zam just gets past av tang and chansey even without removing their item. STAB + Focus Blast is basically perfect coverage, and knock sets just invalidate Chansey and AV tang completely for it and other teammates. Latias leaving definitely made it better. Priority does run wild on the tier, but I feel zam has good enough Speed and coverage to threaten a lot of things rn, especially terrak, and sball dents Victini pretty well.

Magnezone: Stay in B+
Already talked abt it. It's outclassed by every Steel-type in the tier and its only niche is trapping steela and skarm, both of which either KO it back or heavily dent it.

Zarude: Stay in B
Scarf sets are GREAT, especially since you threaten non-scarf Keldeo and Terrakion extremely well. Grass-typing is also nice for other breakers like Zeraora, and it also acts very well as a pivot to Krookodile and Crawdaunt. BU Jungle Healing is also nice since you literally don't care about Toxic or Scald burns. With that being said, the proeminence of sciz, tini, jirachi, skarm, tang, amoong, steela, etc etc makes it too hard for it to make any progress without having to predict a lot. Really wish it had knock and an useful ability :/

Gastrodon: Rise to B YEEESSS
Omg i love using this thing. Sticky Hold is incredibly useful against non-BU Zeraora, Krook, Mew, etc. You switch extremely well into every Electric-type in the tier since thundy forms don't run Grass Knot and rotoms don't run Toxic, only wash runs willo. It doesn't have rocks like toad, but it also doesn't get worn down as easily due to Recover, so it checks Electrics way better than toad.

- to sum these up, gyarados is still a nasty sweeper under HO with a nutty snowball potential and even if bounce isn't the most reliable at times, it is certainly more threatening than anything in B+ and arguably even more than things like bisharp or glowbro, both who reside in A-. Galarian Moltres is a similar story, double dance sets are terrifying and rest talk has even been used to combat stall. It is extremely threating and like gyarados I do not get why it hasn't risen. As for thundurus, I get the speed tier is nice, but it just isn't as good as zeraora and faces way to much competition from it. It also has 4MSS for the NP set, plus its somewhat frail. A pivot set is ok with knock and u-turn, but once again faces too much competition with zeraora in my opinion and that's why I think it should go down to B+. Once again, some reasoning for why these changes didn't happen would be well appreciated considering most of the posters here supported these changes. Regardless, great update and I look forward to more discussions!
also, I agree with monky, I think Gyara and GMoltres are extremely scary if you don't have answers for them. yes, amoong and tang can usually keep gyara in check, but lum berry sets invalidate sleep powder/spore and they can't really hit gyara back hard since it has good spdef. lati leaving made it better too. double dance gmolt is insanely scary under screens, and good luck if it still has high HP under screens and you don't have lycan-d.
 

KM

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stay in A- disagreeing with the drop for the reason that quick draw and/or quick claw sets are unfortunately not as much of a joke as they seem, which to me distinguishes it from reuni. beyond the basic np + 3 qdqc set, it's also totally possible to drop the % from 44 to 30 and just run quick draw with another item depending on your team's needs.

i think it's super easy to dismiss qd/qc as dumb rng that doesn't have a place in serious play and doesn't need to be considered for, but the reality of the set is that many offensive checks or counters can not freely attack galarbro even with a free turn unless it wants to risk a nearly 50/50 kill. for a concrete example, say you successfully predict and bring your nidoqueen in as your opponent switches to galarbro. sure, you can ohko with earth power if it stays in, but you have to contend with the additional 44% chance that it just outspeeds you and ohkos you with psychic. this last point is more relevant in a tier where people actually run the qdqc set more often, but its existence as a set also improves all galarbro usage that doesn't immediately reveal its item

most of you already know how the set works so i'm not going to linger on it, but the point as someone who's used it a fair bit is this. slowbro is bulky enough to where "44%" more often turns out to be something like "3 turns in which going first would have been relevant, even one of which could be majorly disruptive", has the potential to neuter traditional offensive checks and counters, and carves out a niche from reuni even just for this set alone

move to A- definitely in agreement with this rise -- i think mag gets an unfair rap of being useless outside of trapping steels when that's really felt more like a bonus than a dedicated role most of the time i've run it. also of note is steel beam, which can allow for some surprising momentum shifts and burst damage.
 
:slowbro_galar: stay A-. Kitten Milk mentionned it, as niche as they may seem, QCQD sets can still be usable in HO builds, and it's actually a pretty nasty win condition/mid game breaker against bulky offense teams, with coverage options to get rid of Scizor or ground types depending on the holes it wants to open for its teammates.
Outside of that, I still believe the CM set is more reliable than Reuniclus in a few ways. Unlike Reuniclus, it actually can provide defensive utility before setting up, thanks to its typing, Regenerator and its ability to fish status quite easily. That allows it to function as a soft/addiontal check to threats like Tapu Bulu or Terrakion while working as an efficient Win Condition. Besides, most of the mons that would like to come in and overpower Glowbro are very susceptible to status, esp Scald Burns. This makes Glowbro, unlike Reuniclus, a threat from the get go as it can just pivot in on a few mons and immediatly threaten its best counters through fishing for some luck. Reuni can only do that w/ focus blast, which has both limited pps and terrible accuracy. Thus, a failed prediction or a miss with Reuni can end up badly punished while Slowbro Galar can just heal itself with Regenerator, giving it multiple shots as a win condition. It might be less threatening than Reuniclus at equal +x/+x but brings a lot more throughout the course of the game.
For there reasons, I strongly believe Slowbro-G should stay ranked higher than Reuniclus.

:slowking: to A+ ; agreed. Slowking is just braindead good right now. Future Sight + Port has insanely good partners such as Terrakion, Clanger, Tapu Bulu or Scizor, making it an actual offensive threat on top of being a great defensive pivot. It has the ability to act as check some of our greatest special threats in Mence, Keldeo, Nidoqueen and boots Victini with the adequate spread, and its weaknesses are not too hard to patch. While it's clearly possible to abuse it and the common cores it's in, it does such an insane job at defensive pivoting that I believe it fits in A+.

:chansey: to A- ; big yea. I can actually even see this fitting lower. Most of the things it could check on paper have a way to out-momentum it, notably boots Tini, Flip Turn Prim, Pivoting Thundurus, or just any Regen mon switching out. Much unlike Slowking it can't heal chip by switching out and can't even run boots, which makes it very easy to abuse with the right amount of prediction. The fact we fit knock off everywhere, even on stuff that it would feel safe against (Zammer, Tenta), right now doesn't help.

:zarude: to B+ ; not yet. We should leave it be for some time. The scarf set was very nice in Lati Meta, but I feel it lost a big part of its utility. On the other hand, I believe its speed tier is absolutely amazing right now and that some sets are rather unexplored, most notably the good old band and 3atk jungle healing from DLC1. It's one of my favorite Zeraora teammates right now, enjoying a lot the knock off utility, free volts and being able to abuse the grounds with ease. Still, I think we should give it some time to find its appropriate place in the meta, cause I'm not sure it's current main set (scarf) will stay as relevant (esp if terrak ends up banned) and I don't want to support a nom to a higher rank based on speculation on its other options.

:gastrodon: to B ; uh. My biggest issue with this is we have enough good ground types, and those aren't exactly stackable. Both Krookodile and Rhyperior bring much more utility right now, are (each in their own right) crucial checks to some of the tier biggest threats and some of our most reliable rockers. In comparison Gastrodon is usually shaky against everything that's not Zeraora. It most notably needs to be kept at full to have a chance to come on stuff it'd want to check like Mence, Specs Keldeo or Lycanroc, each of those having a chance to 2hko regardless. I guess it wouldn't feel too wrong to see it with the B rank mons cause it definitely has its merits but I believe it quit fits in Palossand's tier. Top check to one of the biggest threats in the meta, period.

Not feeling anything too strong about the others rn, might come back once I've had the shot to mess with them a bit more
 
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vivalospride

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dropping some thoughts for you hobgoblins, keep up the shitty work high low my low

Slowking -> A+ - Confused as to why this isn't already the case tbh. Someone I respect a lot recently got into building SS UU and ended up Slowking on his first 5 drafts, he had to go out of his way to not use Slowking to "challenge himself". Being able to pivot in at least somewhat reliably to the biggest threats in the tier bar Zeraora is huge and unlike Amoonguss it has broken ass Teleport, meaning it's rarely gonna be deadweight and has much less potential to be fodder.

Alakazam -> A - This thing is really fuckin obnoxious to keep tabs on throughout a game without pursuit being existent any longer. It's speed tier + it's sheer power and consistency with lo magic guard is really fuckin irritating and without it has become the top dawg in terms of "pls have a steel type for this mon". Its speed tier and coverage makes counterplay a lot less concrete by nature and it's honestly just frustrating to play against this thing in totality, pls raise, certainly on the level of other shit in A.

Chansey -> A- - This thing is too passive and half the tier runs Knock Off.

Starmie -> B+ - I definitely believe Starmie deserves more credit in this tier since it's a spinner with a typing that's good as fuck here... if that was all then ig B would be fine but its speed tier is extremely gourmet in a tier ran by base 110s and below (rak/tini/keld/etc... all of which mie revenges). We don't even have pursuit anymore bro and our most splashable dragon type is neutered by ice coverage..........

Doublade -> B - Used this thing a little bit and it felt about as good as I expected which isn't incredible or anything, if anything mid. But definitely not a piece of trash mon that deserves to be memed when the tier is ran by rak, a lot of the time this thing is interchangeable with Scizor similar to SM and is most certainly worse but I don't see where all the hate for this mon comes from when pursuit no longer exists, it checks non eq raks, checks non knock scizors, AND it doesn't need much help getting past Victini in end games UNLIKE SCIZOR. On paper this thing isn't too shabby I just think the existence of Tangrowth is a damn shame, certainly at least worth B tho imo tbh ngl.
 

Monky25

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Wassup everyone, Terrakion is banned and we have yet another change in the metagame, so I'm here to drop a VR post. Not gonna lie, I really do believe nothing major will change from this ban that much, so that's why I feel confident in doing a post now, and then I'll just make an update if I do end up being wrong with my thoughts. Not gonna waste time, lets get started.
Previously nominated changes
-to B+, agree: I 100% support a Starmie rise, it is such a sleeper pick in this metagame despite being amazing offensively. Its speed tier is really valuable rn, outpacing things like duskroc, keldeo, and thundurs. With wide coverage, starmie has made its way onto many of my offensive teams. Despite it facing competition from zam and somewhat having 4MSS (not really imo, 4 attacks work just fine) starmie is good enough to rise up to B+
to B, disagree: I just aint seeing anything with doublade. Terrak leaving took away one of its big niches, and the heavy usage of skarm and the bulky grasses alongside the plethora of special attackers that beat it like goltres and nidoqueen makes doublade feel REALLY niche and hard to use in my eyes, id be more in favor of dropping it than rising it, but overall I do think doublade is fine where it is.
My own nominations
to A: Murder Dog is back! Now that its main competition Terrak is banned, duskroc looks to be a fine replacement. While it does lack the raw power to KO things like Tangrowth reliably, it greatly makes up for it with its coverage and priority moves, having access to things like psychic fangs, close combat, crunch, play rough, fire fang, and accelrock, letting it pick its checks and counters. It most definitely deserves a spot in the A ranks, as it will return to the IoA days of its supremacy.
to B-: I get this was voted on last time, but I want to renom tornadus to B-. It still has very impressive breaking power and can also act as an offensive pivot, with it being able to able provide knock support and tailwind. I really do think its better than the rest of its rank, so a small rise to B- would not hurt at all.
to B-: I've already talked about this in the discord before but I believe azelf should rise up to B-. I just find that the fire coverage helps out pretty good at times, and even though zam is better, plug in azelf and the majority of the time they will perform the same. Its not the craziest thing or anything like that, in fact I think its the 2nd worst UU pokemon atm, but like tornadus it is too good for what its rank indicates and it should rise up to B- for now.
to A-: I know I'm gonna get eaten alive for this, but keldeo kinda sucks rn. Too many pokemon resist its stab combo, often turning it into a flip turn bot for choice sets. It has the coverage but that can be taken advantage of by other things. Sub+CM is the best set imo but even then it cant break through slowking or amoongus. It also looses to common revenge killers like thundurus, zeraora, alakazam, zarude, and starmie. All in all, Keldeo just isn't having the best time in the meta rn, scarf has lost its niche of revenge killing terrakion, its still usable but not as good, just keldeo isn't as good as the other a A Ranks and a drop to A- better reflects its viability.
to B+ (use this sprite for the op Hilomilo it looks better). Anyway Mew feels off. The cosmic power set took the ladder by storm but its died off since and we've adapted to it with lariat mons and taunt. The suicide lead set is fine, but often times I'm using krook instead for HO due to electric immunity and just a strong lead overall. The utility sets are just ok, not the craziest thing rn. Mew feels mid atm and B+ reflects that, it isn't bad there are just a lot better.
to B: When was this thing relevant again? Anyway volcanion's low speed and weakness to common Pokemon like zera and duskroc is pretty bad. Its too slow to hit anything and dragons ruling the meta doesn't help it at all. B+ feels way to high for it, especially since stuff that is WAY better than it like rotom-w, gyarados, and conk are there. B fits it so much better.
to B: This thing SUCKS. Dragons, psychics, and electrics are in abundance, it faces steep competition from slowking and amoongus as defensive waters and poison respectively, and it even is inferior to the rising starmie as a spinner. It still counters celesteela, but I don't find that enough to keep it afloat in the B+ ranks, B suits it more as it fits with the other Pokemon that are just OK in the meta. They beat some things and lose to some things, but are still usable, just not that good. tentacruel fits there.
to B-: Always a weird one to rank. but lets be real quag is only UU by usage because of all the suspects we have been having and people using stall to get reqs. Stall is weird, its decent thanks to all the bullshit HO on the ladder but meh overall since we have powerful stallbreakers like azumarill, conk, daunt, and even haxorus which is a cool Pokemon I've been trying. B- just fits quagsire more, I'll go in more depth if needed to but B just feels off considering stall's place in the meta, terrak getting banned helps but not too much imo.
to C+: This guy is really bad. I'd rather use him as a HYPER OFFENSE LEAD rather than a defensive mon. A Weakness to so many Pokemon like victini, scizor, mence, zera, alakazam, keldeo etc makes weezing-galar hard to use because of its low spdef stat and steel weakness. Even B- feels to high, drop this guy to C+.
to C/UR: Terrakion getting banned had it lose its main niche, but it still can be usable with colbur berry variants dealing with zeraora and lycanroc-dusk I guess? Idk it could get unranked, it could stay but C rank at the highest. Palossand is pretty useless now, its up to the VR team what they want to do with it.
- both of these from C+ to C. Araquanid faces competition from shuckle and ribmobee as a webs setter, as the former has role compression with rocks while the latter is faster. It does have a niche with magic coat but then again webs are really meh in this meta so honestly C fits araquanid better than C+ imo. Froslass its outclassed as a suicide lead by Mew on HO teams, it has a niche due to its better speed but once again C fits it better as mew's bulky and not being weak to bullet punch makes it so much better. C+ oversells both of the imo and they should drop to C

That's all of my hot takes, let me know whether you agree or disagree with these nominations, I personally think all of them can work but I may be wrong. Hope y'all enjoyed reading this and I'll see you next post. Check out Victim of the Week!
 
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Some of the discussion point's:

:chansey: to A-
Agree: This mon is way too passive and knock off is everywhere, eviolite is a must so hazards beat it down... It's just really meh right now.

:umbreon: C to C+/B-
Agree: With enemy number #1 terrakion gone this can be a good cleric again! Very solid bulk that allows it to check chandelure and alakazam, It just has enought to be bumped up some ranks.

I don't really have an opinion yet on any of the other points, will possibly add them in If I do get to anaylse them more. So moving onto my own noms:

:lycanroc-dusk: to A
Like I said in my earilier post, this has to move up. Now that terrakion is banned it's somewhat main competition is gone and lycan dusk is a good revenge killer with STAB tough claws accelerock. Also has very good coverage to put a dent in anything that isn't skarmory or tangrowth as it's best checks. Not going into to too much detail for this as I already made my points in my previous post.

:tornadus: :charizard: :azelf: To higher
None of these deserve c ranks. Azelf can act as a suicide lead and does it succesfully as only zeraora and alakazam can out speed it and revenge it unboosted before it does too much, and is a good wall breaker with nasty plot 3 attacks. Same with tornadus who can wallbreak with solid speed, and act as a pivot with knock off and u-turn with stab and a filler. Charizard is a disgusting wallbreaker with specs on sun and can 2ohko a plethora of mons and for these reasons they should not be with these other worse mons in c+.

:palossand: to C/UR
Ok terrakion is gone and that's it main niche gone. I guess it can check lycanroc D and zeraora but it's nothing special and should just drop into the depths of c ranks.

:starmie: To B+
Like Monky25 said, This is a sleeper pick in this meta. it outspeeds keldeo lycanroc dusk and nihilego which it can all revenge kill back. It can be a solid revenge killer and a defensive rapid spinner if you want, it kinda suffers fro 4MSS but It is definitely a mon you should try more.

:tentacruel: to B-
Oh god this thing is so bad I can't even. Checks celesteela but that's not that hard to deal with right now and losing to very good top tier mons like victini and zeraora is no good and it's very passive and does like 10 to every mon. Starmie spins better and nihilego mew and nidoqueen set up toxic spikes better than this god awful mon.

:rotom-mow: To UR
First of all rotom-heat and wash are way better than this lawn mower as they have better typings and just do more than it. It's just really bad and there is no reason to use it over better grasses and electrics.

:zygarde-10%: To B
Zygarde 10% is actually solid imo. Thousand arrows is one of the most spamable stabs you could possibly get smacking down flyings like celesteela and skarmory and removing that flying type. It has a very good speed in hitting 361 like azelf and starmie and it's coverage isn't that bad, with stab outrage and options like superpower, extreme speed to revenge kill sweepers and scarfers, stone edge and skitter smack to hit grasses. It's best sets are probably using coil, dragon dance to sweep or a choice band for immediate power. Overall I thik this deserves B.

That's all from me and my noms today, have a nice day!
 
Can someone please explain to me why GalarBro is ranked as high as it is? I was genuinely shocked when I saw it ranked at A-. I understand people are discussing dropping to B+ but even then I don't see what this thing has to offer.I just think Slowking is way better
 
Can someone please explain to me why GalarBro is ranked as high as it is? I was genuinely shocked when I saw it ranked at A-. I understand people are discussing dropping to B+ but even then I don't see what this thing has to offer.I just think Slowking is way better
GalarBro and Slowking are totally different in what they do, so you can't really compare them. Slowking is a defensive teleport pivot that provides unmatched Future Sight support, while GalarBro is primarily used as a set up mon with Calm Mind or NP. With its high Defense stat maxed out and Calm Mind, it can become nearly impenetrable, especially the Grassy Seed variant. Basically, Galarbro plays more like Reuniclus than Slowking.

I don't think Galarbro is anything amazing though, so B+ is probably better for it. But it has no competition from Slowking since they do different things.
 

Lily

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Can someone please explain to me why GalarBro is ranked as high as it is? I was genuinely shocked when I saw it ranked at A-. I understand people are discussing dropping to B+ but even then I don't see what this thing has to offer.I just think Slowking is way better
Glowbro is really, really threatening with its Calm Mind set:

Slowbro-Galar @ Colbur Berry / Safety Goggles
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Sludge Bomb
- Flamethrower / Scald
- Slack Off

It's really tough for a lot of Pokemon to deal with, boosts really easily thanks to its insane bulk and is a great check to stuff like Amoonguss, Lycanroc and Tapu Bulu. Fits well on bulky teams that can support its slow-paced playstyle but it's a menace late-game, those teams aren't doing too well nowadays though so it's not as good as it was before. It doesn't really compete with Slowking which in this meta fulfills the role of a bulky Water for the most part, while Glowbro is a slow boosting threat.

These types of questions would fit better on the SQSA (Simple Questions + Simple Answers) thread in the future by the way!
i got beaten out by mantis but i wrote this up and wanted to include the last part anyway so
 

Estarossa

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Can someone please explain to me why GalarBro is ranked as high as it is? I was genuinely shocked when I saw it ranked at A-. I understand people are discussing dropping to B+ but even then I don't see what this thing has to offer.I just think Slowking is way better
Main set people are using is Calm Mind + Scald + Sludge Bomb + Slack Off. Its natural bulk makes it really hard to take out, stuff like Zarude / Krook absolutely acn't take it out while you can even EV it to take a Shadow Ball from Specs Chandy at +1. This is made worse by Regen and the range of berries it can run, allowing it to easily trade with its checks and come back later.

What it really offers over other Calm Mind users and stuff is the fact that Scald + Sludge Bomb is horrible to switch into, and none of its checks really want to hard switch into these, eg. Scizor doesn't wanna take unecessary Scalds, while Regenerator makes it a nice long term check to stuff like Bulu and Zeraora.

This lies in direct contrast to the typical roles that Slowking offers on a team, as a mixed defensive pivot that checks half the tier like Salamaneece and Victini etc, while offering Teleport support. They aren't really similar at all.
 

Hilomilo

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I figured it'd be a good idea responding to questions surrounding these Pokemon in particular considering they've generated decent buzz in the thread. I asked VR team members that voted to keep each where they were in our voting form to weigh in on their decisions (I personally voted to rise Gyarados and drop Thundurus), so here are some brief explanations for each:

Gyarados (9-4 vote to stay in B+): Gyarados has been picking up more usage lately, though at its lowest point around a month or two ago it was arguably a fringe B+ Pokemon. While trends like Zeraora often running an Adamant nature (giving Gyara more leeway to forego Jolly) and Latias leaving the tier have worked to its benefit, it has also struggled a bit to reliably counteract surging presences like Skarmory and Lycanroc-D. Gyarados also still struggles fitting all the coverage it'd like on one set, as the tier's prevalent defensive Grass-types can stomach Ice Fang, while Bounce is still not always the most affordable option given Salamence's presence (not to mention its inaccuracy and predictability). Gyarados can also struggle at times to fully abuse the perks of its typing due to its nature as a sweeper, which keeps it from blanket checking Scizor/Keldeo/Victini nearly as well as it would appear to on paper.

Galarian Moltres (10-3 vote to stay in A-): Galarian Moltres was another sweeper brought up for a rise that the bulk of the VR team seemed to think should keep its current rank. Moltres is very potent, but can still struggle to comfortably fit on non-hyper offensive structures a lot of the time due to some roadblocks it encounters with 1. no reliable recovery option complicating its defensive utility, and 2. its nature as a sweeper often preventing it from providing non-offensive roles to teams too reliably unless it's the RestTalk set, which is significantly more passive/gives up momentum. Its immediate power and unboosted Speed tier are also a bit average, which can open the door for Pokemon like Kyurem, Zeraora, and the surging Lycanroc to overwhelm it.

Thundurus-Incarnate (9-4 vote to stay in A-): This was the only Pokemon of the three listed that was voted on to drop from its rank instead of rising, though it kept its place in the VR nonetheless. Thundurus certainly suffers some competition with Zeraora in the tier, though its pivoting sets still carve a niche as a strong mixed attacker that can prove really difficult to switch into thanks to both the progress it forces with U-turn/Knock Off and its excellent coverage, allowing it to muscle past Pokemon like Amoonguss and Tangrowth with Psychic and Sludge Wave respectively. Nasty Plot sets are also a lot better in a post-Latias metagame with Thundurus's coverage and amazing Speed, a trait highly valued in the metagame. It's certainly not without its flaws, though Thundurus has plenty claim and many different applications given the meta's current nature.

Hope that offers some clarity! Just wanted to finish this post with a quick take or two on stuff that's gotten some discussion:

Azelf C+ to higher: Maybe to B-, Disagree with B or higher - I think Azelf has some neat tools that may be underappreciated, but it feels pretty overrated in this thread. Alakazam is realistically just a far better option in most scenarios with Magic Guard vastly improving its longevity, which gives it the capacity to consistently annoy teams throughout a match with its coverage and Knock Off. Speed can also be nice to avoid tying with Zydog or Starmie if you happen to run into them. Fire Blast and more room for Energy Ball give Azelf a niche that I think could allow B- to reflect the viability of Nasty Plot sets, but it still feels like you generally have to jump through hoops to optimize it over its competition and I'm not convinced that lead sets or any of its other options are either good or explored enough to hold weight as arguments. It just feels hard to justify over Zam in most cases and although I could see a rise to B-, I also wouldn't lose sleep if it continued to stay in C+.

Keldeo A to A-: Disagree - Admittedly a little more on the fence with this one considering how brainless Slowking is, but other than that matchup I think Keldeo can pretty convincingly play the long game against most of its paper checks. Resists to its STABs exist but realistically Mence/Bulu/Tang/Azu are compromised trying to switch into Hydro Pump. Secret Sword is also enough to prevent Primarina/Gyarados/Tentacruel from being consistent checks, especially considering the first two compromise their offensive roles trying to blanket it. Amoonguss being great is admittedly troublesome considering it forces you on your toes prediction-wise, but both that and Slowking aren't impossible to wear down or overwhelm, while Keldeo has also appreciated the recent bans with Latias freeing up its prediction and Terrakion leaving giving it a less crowded Speed tier. I don't think it's the end of the world if it drops and can also agree with the criticism that at times it's fairly prediction-reliant, but I still think Keldeo forces progress well between its STABs and Flip Turn and the typing is also useful for the additional utility it can offer in the Scizor/Bisharp matchups.

Lycanroc-D A- to A: Agree - This thing has already been on the come-up but I think Terrakion leaving has especially freed up its opportunities to find slots on teams. It obviously doesn't really have any capacity to offer defensive tools to teams but its Speed tier and coverage are legitimately incredible and Accelerock is meaningful priority with Thundy/Goltres/Gyara all being good or recently improving a bit. I feel like it'll always have a bit of a ceiling to its viability given the defensive state of the meta, but it's responded to trends well recently and brings enough with its offensive tools right now for me to think it could use a small upgrade.
 

Adaam

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Some quick thoughts:

Mence is S rank imo. It provides unmatched utility as a Ground-immune mon with Intimidate and always keeping Scizor in check. Draco/Cane/Flame is stupid fucking hard to switch into while DD sets are terrifying sweepers, especially with Zone support. Even without Zone, it can muscle through stuff like Sciz/Rhyp with a bit of chip and Outrage is not really punishable with such a lack of Fairy-types.

Washer deserves a raise. Best defogger and it's annoying as hell to take down if it drops Defog for Split + Wisp. It forms a brainless vortex core with god Scizor as well and we all know how you can't just go into your regen Grass-type lest you have something for the incoming Kyurem/Chandelure/idfk any mon that ohkos them.

Sylveon is sick and is probably B+ material. Fairy + Fire is great coverage when 60% of teams have a Steel-type OHKOd by Mystical Fire. Not to mention it hard walls any Kyurem, Mence, and Kommo sets besides SD Jab, which is unseen. Plus its Spdef is laughably huge and it can sponge a bunch of miscellaneous hits form Keldeo, Alakazam, Thundy etc.

Bisharp > A this mon sweeps so easily lmao.

Last rise to mention would be Mew. Spikes are great, it's hard as hell to break, and it can run any move ever in the game. Knock Off, Ice Beam, Psychic, Wisp, Flamethrower all fit on utility sets. Not to mention it has 10 different offensive variants, including the well-loved Demon Mew set. A is more fitting of its effectiveness, even if it doesn't offer much raw defensive utility.

Drop Jirachi to like, B+/B this mon sucks. I would also drop Moonger to A. It is very good, but Goggles spam make it rly less effective.
 

scorbunnys

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Hi, its time to make a post
:ss/slowking: A to A+ - Agree
This mon is brainless, FuturePort is really, really good on this meta where theres good FS abusers such as Lycanroc-Dusk, Keldeo or Zarude and Teleport keeps momentum, it also has Slack Off + Regenerator which makes super hard to take down, it can even pivot out on super effective moves, because it can tank and teleport back to the counter of that mon and it can check stuff such as Nidoqueen (specially if King runs some SpDef evs for it), Alakazam, Keldeo and even Starmie (it is kinda niche but still cares), its just so splashable and imo it deserves to rise a subrank.
:ss/salamence: A+ to S - Agree
Wonderful mon, it is our best defogger so far due to being able to check stuff such as Scizor and retaining ground inmunity too, and special sets can be pretty annoying to switch into, DD sets on other hand are kinda inconsistent but it can sweep on the right MUs (tho in other MUs ends being a deadweight, so it needs Zone support often times), nothing that hasn't been covered by Adaam already, it deserves a rise to S.
:ss/keldeo:A to A- - Disagree
I can get why the nom because King is brainless mon, but like, what else switches lol?, SubCM is a big threat if King has been weakened enough and Specs kinda Flip Turns on anything, also, let me make a wall of calcs.
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Primarina: 132-156 (43.8 - 51.8%) -- 9.8% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gyarados: 133-157 (40.1 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Salamence: 428-508 (129.3 - 153.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Salamence: 428-504 (108.9 - 128.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Bulu: 139-164 (49.4 - 58.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Grassy Terrain recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Bulu: 186-220 (66.1 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowking: 123-145 (31.2 - 36.8%) -- 75.5% chance to 3HKO
In fact the only switch-ins are Slowking and Sylveon and also, Scarf Keldeo is a kinda underrated revenge killer (s/o KJLX for show me this), i even have some replays (not mine sadly ;w;) of Scarf Keldeo
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1292266915-lgxb3bjb35bx7k64fvxtbuqzj8rc48gpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1285659486-r3h9w36deppli47jf7w0tqdyv33gywapw
Now u wanna tell me, what does Scarf Keldeo?, well, it learns Flip Turn for pivot and it can rkill stuff such as Thundurus, Alakazam, Azelf, Scarf Zarude and Zygarde.10%, something that other Keld variants can't do at all, ofc it isnt that powerful but still it has a solid niche.
If anything, i would rather rise Keldeo to A+ than drop it, but A seems fine enough.
:ss/chansey: A to B+ - Agree
Really agree with all of the thoughts about it, but imma go further and drop it to B+, why?, is that lately i have been prefering another SpDef wall that im going to mention later, Chansey has problems that im going to mention below.
--
1: Knock Off is everywhere
Lose its Eviolite isn't like, the worst thing of the world or anything, but it does hard cripple Chansey, Eviolite is what makes it so bulky and lose it...sucks
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 231-274 (32.8 - 38.9%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO
+1 252 Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 253-298 (35.9 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 169-199 (24 - 28.3%) -- 96% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 402-474 (57.1 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 253-298 (35.9 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252 Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 378-445 (53.6 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 347-409 (49.3 - 58.1%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 600-708 (85.2 - 100.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
2: 4MSS
This thing wants Soft-Boiled + Seismic Toss + Toxic or Thunder Wave, then you need to pick either Aromatherapy so you can be a cleric, Stealth Rock for hazzards and Teleport for keep momentum, however, if u run Aromatherapy or Stealth Rock u are either a momentum sink and Aromatherapy misses Stealth Rock while Stealth Rock misses clerical support (though play around status isnt too hard really), Teleport misses SR and Aromatherapy, though u aren't a momentum sink with Teleport at all.

--
Overall, i just dont feel that this mon can do it's job super succesfully, it is a SpDef wall that can't beat SubRoost Kyurem, Keldeo, Kommo-O and SubCM Chandelure / Specs Trick Chandelure, that makes it a not very good mon and it deserves to drop two subranks.
:ss/sylveon: B- to B+ - Agree
Say hello to our wonderful SpDef wall, it can beat Kommo-O, Kyurem, Keldeo, All-Out-Attacker Alakazam, All-out-Attacker Azelf, Thundurus and Salamence, unlike Chansey, Sylveon hits decently hard due to Hyper Voice Pixilate being able to 2HKO a bunch of offensive mons and it can also bypass subs, it is also able to beat Scizor even if its LO, it only needs 132 Defense for tank 1 BP from LO Scizor (and 124 SpDef still tanks Keldeo btw) and KO back with MFire, meta trends are favoring it p much, Aegislash is also, well, it beats Sylveon but at the same time it pairs really, really well with Sylveon because Aegislash lacks recovery and can get worn downed, so Sylveon can health its life with a Wish and its HP is not bad neither, it has 95 HP (tho i would like 100 HP ngl), so that means that is going to be healthed with 197 HP and thats not bad, so yeah, it is more of a role compression thing that can be a glue, hit a bunch of stuff (it is even able to 1v1 Scizor), bypass subs and wishpass, all on the same slot, everything has been covered by Adaam, i just think that this thing could rise at least a subrank, of course it has issues such as a little (not too of a big deal, at least not unlike Chansey) 4MSS, it likes Heal Bell and Mystical Fire but have a Scizor Check / A way to play around status or even a status absorber is not that hard to find as i mentioned, so yeah, rise it.
:ss/alakazam:A- to A+ - Agree
Yessir, this thing is kinda bonkers ngl, NP Expanding Force sets are p good with Indeedee support (either Female or Male Indeedee, depends if your team appreciates the extra power and speed or the Healing Wish), they can eliminate from the existence almost any mon if it has the opportunity of setup (and even without setup), even though u can play around with stuff such as Celesteela, AoA can worn down its checks with Knock Off and it's coverage moves+, even though Scarf Krook and Zeraora being so common hurts it, it is still good and imo, A+ worth instead of A, it is even considered broken for some people and i'm not opposed to a suspect test.
:ss/magnezone:B+ to A- - Not sure, leaning towards A-
I like this mon and it fits on some of teams, but on UU it is checked by rising stars such as Gastrodon and its easy to outspeed, also it is kinda hard to justify over other electrics such as Zeraora or Rotom-Heat, Specs sets are really hard to switch in tho, i'm still leaning towards A- but i need to try this a bit more.
:ss/slowbro-galar::ss/reuniclus:Reuniclus to A- and Galarbro to B+ - Keep both where they are
I tried Galarbro on the RW of Azelf and i feel like, this thing is really annoying on Bulu teams with Grassy Seed and Regen, it can be nearly unbrekeable and unlike Reuniclus, it has coverage such as Flamethrower and absorbs Toxic Spikes, QC QD sets are also p annoying for some teams and can sweep if it's lucky enough.
Reuniclus on other hand, like, i can't judge bc i didn't tried it, but it seems kinda hard to justify with Zam here, tho its bulk is appreciated, i just dont know if it's good enough for A-.
:ss/zarude: B to B+ - Disagree, imo it deserves a drop
Not a bad mon but it got a bit worse after Latias ban and also, it really hates Amoonguss/Celesteela/Skarmory being everywhere and it isn't really effective at checking Alakazam (the best psychic atm) and it can even get booped by Azelf Fire Blast. Also, it needs to pick between being a scarfer and being chipped by hazzards, so it turns on a ''Pivot bot that its unable to keep healthy through the match'' and if its Heavy-Duty Boots it can't outspeed Zeraora and Alakazam, it also got kinda worse with the Victini ban as it lost a really good partner, so it's only partner able to beat Skarmory, Amoonguss, Tangrowth and Celesteela, Zeraora can't beat Amoonguss and Tangrowth, Blaze Kick does not deal a lot of damage, it only does a 3HKO if no rocks and while Zeraora can pivot out, what needs Zarude is a mon that kills Amoonguss and Tangrowth, because that pivot damage is recovered on the switch-in, yes, you can run Future Sight + Zarude but imo, Keldeo is a bit better at being a FSight abuser due to it's better dual stab, tbh i would drop it to B-.
:ss/amoonguss:A+ to A - Agree
It's kinda Future Sight food and Safety Googles mons have been rising quite a bit, metagame has started adapting to it, still really good but not A+ worth.
:ss/gyarados: B+ to A - Agree
Yeah boi, DD sets are pretty hard to keep in check if well played, also, it got benefited by a meta shift, and thats the shift from Jolly Zera to Adamant Zera, Lycan Dusk isn't really that of a threat because it gets KOed by Waterfall and Jolly Zeraora was able to switch into and revenge kill it, also, Amoonguss and Tangrowth aren't only Bounce food, in fact they are Ice Fang food too and Gyarados can run Safety Googles if you have enough Hazzard control, so if well played, it can manage to sweep and definitely that deserves a rise to A.
:ss/azelf: :ss/tornadus: :ss/charizard: C+ to B/B- - Agree
Azelf on one hand, it's a cool pick that has a bunch of offensive versatility, it has an AoA set which is near unwallable, go here for an explanation of the AoA set, Lead sets are cool too, it hits harder than Mew and it has more speed so it outspeeds stuff such as Lycanroc-Dusk, Ninetales-Alola and Keldeo, imo it deserves a rise to B- at least, if not B.
Tornadus on other hand, it has a cool NP set that can make use of Hurricane, Focus Blast and Heat Wave coverage, which is a really hard to wall coverage, Tailwind sets are p cool too, they make it p fast and supports offensive teams, nothing that hasn't been mentioned for other posters, it just deserves a rise to B- or even B.
Specs/Scarf Solar Power sets under sun are super hard to wall for Zard, Overheat + Weather Ball and 2HKOes almost the whole tier while retaining a decent speed tier, specially on Scarf sets, it is p sun reliant and rocks hurts it so thats why im rising it to B-/B and not to a super high rank.
:ss/umbreon: C to B- - Agree
It isn't too used, but it had some success on stall teams such as the BigFatMantis's one posted on UU teambuilding competition (https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...tion-v2-week-9-aegislash.3676650/post-8785395), it keeps in check many psychics and ghosts such as Mew, Alakazam (take care of Focus Blast tho) and Chandelure and Terrak is no longer here for smack the poor Umbry, so now it could rise some subranks.
:ss/mew: A- to A - Agree

It offers LOTS of utility thanks to have Spikes, Stealth Rock, Defog, Will-O-Wisp, Knock Off and some coverage such as Ice Beam or Flamethrower, Cosmic Power is a demon too and it has a nice splashability, it has been already mentioned but it deserves a rise definitely.
:ss/jirachi: A to B+ - Agree
I like this mon but it faces competition from other wishpassers such as Sylveon and other SpDef walls such as Chansey, Aegislash being here does not do it any favors neither, it isn't the worst thing of the world, but i think that B+ fits better for now.
--
My own nominations:
:ss/celesteela: A to A+
It did a comeback on HOs thanks to it's Autotomize Meteor Beam set, it is really good on screens because Celesteela has a good bulk and Meteor Beam is a cool lure to the fire types, Leech Seed Celesteela + Sylveon is a solid core too, they both can check a lot of stuff together, feel free to disagree me on this one because i'm kinda shaky on this one, but it is pretty good imo and deserves a little rise.
:ss/lycanroc-dusk: A- to A+
Yea, it's coverage is just so good and it is a Terrakion but with coverage and prio, it lacks some raw power but it can still break through stuff such as Chansey, Umbreon, Kommo-O (Psychic Fangs/Play Rough) and it can rkill stuff such as Chandelure and Alakazam (Indeedee + Zam plays around prio so take care of that), it also has Psychic Fangs for destroy screens / Aurora Veil and it's coverage is almost unwallable, SD sets under screens are p good too, so i would rise it to A+.
Thats all for today!, i don't have a strong opinion on anyone else so for now thats my post, see ya later.

The Nearly-Perfect VR (imo):
S Rank
Salamence
Scizor
Zeraora

A+ Rank
Alakazam
Celesteela
Kommo-o
Krookodile
Lycanroc-D
Slowking

A Rank
Amoonguss
Azumarill
Gyarados
Keldeo
Kyurem
Mamoswine
1616300042511.png
Mew
Nidoqueen
Primarina
Skarmory
Tangrowth

A- Rank
Bisharp
Chandelure
Moltres-Galar
Rhyperior
Rotom-H
Slowbro-Galar
Tapu Bulu
Thundurus

B+ Rank
Chansey
Conkeldurr
Crawdaunt
Diggersby
Grimmsnarl
Hatterene
Jirachi
Magnezone
Nihilego
Reuniclus
Rotom-W
Suicune
Sylveon
Tentacruel
Thundurus-T
Volcanion

B Rank
Haxorus
Incineroar
Mimikyu
Necrozma
Ninetales-Alola
Obstagoon
Polteageist
Quagsire
Scolipede
Seismitoad
Starmie
Torkoal
Toxtricity
Venusaur

B- Rank
Azelf
Charizard
Cobalion
Diancie
Ditto
Doublade
Gastrodon
Palossand
Ribombee
Shuckle
Stakataka
Togekiss
Tornadus
Umbreon
Weezing-Galar
Zarude
Zygarde-10%

C+ Rank
Araquanid
Froslass
Kingdra
Klefki
Mantine
Noivern
Politoed
Pyukumuku
Roserade

C Rank
Arctozolt
Cloyster
Durant
Glastrier
Golurk
Indeedee
Kabutops
Linoone
Mienshao
Milotic
Omastar
Porygon-Z
Raikou
Rotom-C
Sharpedo
Tyrantrum
Vileplume
Ciao!
 
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Bisharp to A
I hate this thing right now... when I'm facing it.

Just about every team I make myself I look back and think, "damn, I lose to bisharp." Just like ORAS OU the only thig that resist its STABs are Keldeo and itself. And Keldeo can't have the one thing that makes it threating knocked off. It is also extremely strong and should be A.

Murder Dog to A

I am loving this thing right now. I've been playing with se, cc, accelerock, psyfangs, and shreds ALOT. Just look at the A ranks and look at this coverage. The switch-ins are tang, and skarm, and skarm is most likely rising next month so it'll be even better.
 
:ss/celesteela: A to A+
It did a comeback on HOs thanks to it's Autotomize Meteor Beam set, it is really good on screens because Celesteela has a good bulk and Meteor Beam is a cool lure to the fire types, Leech Seed Celesteela + Sylveon is a solid core too, they both can check a lot of stuff together, feel free to disagree me on this one because i'm kinda shaky on this one, but it is pretty good imo and deserves a little rise.
I disagree. In a metagame full of Zeraora, VoltTurn, Knock Off, and just things in general that beat Steela, I don't think it being used on cheese justifies it getting a raise. It's just too choked out atm to raise in my opinion. Plus, with the rise of more uncommon stuff like Umbreon, Milotic, or Zydog, I would say these metagame trends feel more granting of a drop for Celesteela. But, for now keep it at A.

Echoing Adaam and Pokeseba, Salamence is def an S tier mon in my opinion. It's hard to look at the metagame and remove Salamence without the metagame noticably changing. Salamence is the tier's best hazard removal, compresses a Scizor answer, Ground immunity, Bulu answer, and what else not in one slot. On top of all of this, it's not passive in the slightest either, being able to threaten just about anything not named Chansey or Umbreon. And that's just its standard Special Attacker set. Overall, Salamence is such a key part of the metagame at this point, I think S rank is definitely warranted for it.
 

Hilomilo

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Update time! Here's what we've got:

Rises
:Slowking: from A to A+: Even without Terrakion and Victini in the tier, Slowking has persisted as a top pick, being one of the metagame’s best and most reliable means of generating momentum and fitting incredibly well with wallbreakers and defensive teammates alike. Its incredible consistency and splashability have made it a key component to many builds and it is truly a UU staple at this rate.

:Alakazam: from A- to A+: Alakazam has recently surged to prominence as one of the metagame’s most immediately threatening and devastating offensive forces. Its incredible UUPL showing has illustrated its ability to bypass virtually the entire defensive metagame, while its exceptional Speed also makes it quite hard to revenge kill. Its coverage, Speed, and ability have supplied it with the means of performing amazingly in the metagame, consistently claiming kills in matches and forcing teams on their back foot once safely brought into play.

:Chandelure: from A- to A: Chandelure has continued its upward trend as one of the best and most overtly threatening offensive picks the metagame has to offer. It simply lacks consistent defensive counterplay and offers excellent utility with all of its viable sets between Trick, spreading status with its Hex set, and the perks its typing and abilities can lend. It’s developed into staple status at this point, truly illustrating the offensive potency Ghost-type attacks currently have.

:Magnezone: from B+ to A-: Skarmory and Scizor are the best they’ve ever been while Celesteela has persisted as a solid pick, giving Magnezone strong applications as a trapper right now and supporting Pokemon like Kyurem and physical Salamence excellently. It also offers a genuinely fearsome wallbreaking presence outside of its main role, its immediate power allowing it to do a number against paper checks like Zeraora and Rotom-H.

:Thundurus-therian: from B+ to A-: Thundurus-T is far scarier in a metagame without Terrakion or Latias, having more capacity than ever to exert its breaking prowess with Nasty Plot sets. With its insane immediate power and the occasional utility its Electric-immunity presents, it’s been able to distinguish itself from its Incarnate form, now having a greater identity in the tier than in previous iterations of the meta.

:Zarude: from B to B+: Zarude is slowly but surely reaching staple status as one of the tier’s absolute best picks for Speed control with its Choice Scarf set. Its typing and pivoting capabilities lend themselves to excellent synergy with many tier staples, with its ability to bring a teammate like Chandelure or Kyurem in on the Skarmory/Tangrowth/Amoonguss switch-in proving extremely effective.

:Gastrodon: from B- to B: No Stealth Rock will always be a fair shortcoming, though Gastrodon has decent claim in this metagame as a Ground-type with reliable recovery, which gives it a strong Zeraora matchup. Spreading burns/poison and blanket checking trending foes like Chandelure/Lycanroc/Thundurus-T/Rotom-W are also solid defensive tools it can currently offer.

:Noivern: from C+ to B-: Although it was recently on the decline, Noivern has recently found itself on an upward trend as its Speed tier and Infiltrator have proven key in matchups against popular foes like Alakazam, Keldeo, and SubRoost Kyurem. Between its revenge killing capabilities and ability to U-turn against switch-ins like Slowking and Milotic, it can distinguish itself from Salamence well, finally establishing more of an identity in the DLC2 meta.

:Milotic: from C to B-: Boots Milotic has seen a solid uptick in usage as a strong defensive pivot with some decent applications over Slowking. It offers a great switch into the likes of Salamence and Noivern, but also steadier matchups against prominent Pokemon like Chandelure, Alakazam, and some Scizor sets than its main competition. The utility it offers is currently well above anything in the C ranks, justifying a two-subrank rise.

:Indeedee-F: from UR to C: Indeedee-F has carved a decent supportive niche in the metagame, proving to be a better option for Psychic Terrain teams than its male counterpart thanks to its pivotal access to Healing Wish. Although Indeedee-M still carves a niche as a powerful scarfer that can revenge kill Kommo-o and Scizor, the other form also has enough current claim for a rank.

:Xatu: from UR to C: Xatu is a decent pick as a screens setter thanks to Magic Bounce and the additional utility it presents with pivoting and moves like Thunder Wave. While not a defining presence by any means, it can clearly distinguish itself enough from Pokemon with similar roles for a spot on the list.

Drops
:Azumarill: from A to A-: A potentially controversial change, though Azumarill has seen better days. Tangrowth/Amoonguss/Skarmory being featured on several teams really stints its progress in most matches, while its Speed tier is also very exploitable and further compounds its existing longevity issues, despite its power.

:Chansey: from A to A-: Chansey will always have a strong defensive niche in the tier, but is too abusable for a spot in A to reflect its current splashability and ease of use. It’s certainly glad that Terrakion is gone, but is still a bit too awkward a fit on many structures and prone to both chip damage and Knock Off to keep its current spot.

:Jirachi: from A to A-: Jirachi unfortunately doesn’t offer particularly useful current utility with its typing and other supportive options. Latias and Terrakion’s departures have eaten into the niches of its defensive and scarfed sets, respectively, while many popular Pokemon have the capacity to overwhelm it right now, especially as the likes of Rotom-W/Bisharp/Chandelure have begun trending upward a bit.

:Tapu Bulu: from A- to B+: The metagame’s developments have allowed teams to naturally fit many convincing means of counterplay to Tapu Bulu, which has only caused it to continue its downward trend. Despite its potency, it requires a lot of support and is hard pressed to circumvent all of its weaknesses to many defining presences, like Scizor, Skarmory, and our Regenerator Grass-types.

:Suicune: from B+ to B: Suicune unfortunately hasn’t found any definitive success in the metagame, which prevents it from having the consistency or splashability needed to keep a spot in B+. It’s a bit of an awkward fit in that it can’t really fulfill the conventional defensive roles of a Water-type all too reliably, while it also requires a lot of dedicated support to work in the late-game. A few prominent or surging threats also burden it, like Zeraora and Thundurus-T.

:Tentacruel: from B+ to B: Tentacruel doesn’t really offer too many particularly valuable traits right now that aren’t outweighed by its general shortcomings. It very frequently overwhelms itself trying to fulfill all the roles it’s often fitted for, especially given how shaky a check it really makes to Pokemon like Scizor, Keldeo, and Chandelure. Its utility isn’t really to die for anymore, which has left it to further drop off as the meta progresses.

:Volcanion: from B+ to B: Volcanion is another Pokemon that just isn’t super applicable right now and thus lacks an identity. It’s a fine wallbreaker but generally struggles to find uses over options like Primarina and Keldeo, while its defensive utility as a Scizor/Azumarill switch-in is often overblown due to how easy it is to chip down in practice. While not bad, it just ends up suffering too much competition and splashability issues for B+ at this rate.

:Haxorus: from B to B-: Haxorus struggles a lot as a Dragon-type that can’t really perform any valuable utility roles, relegating its uses to more strictly offensive builds. It can still struggle circumventing weaknesses to Skarmory and priority users like Scizor/Mamoswine, while Salamence presents pretty significant competition in nearly all its offensive roles, making Haxorus a pretty constricted Pokemon in the metagame overall.

:Weezing-Galar: from B- to C+: The perks of Galarian Weezing’s typing and other tools really aren’t too applicable right now, with many tier staples being able to either power through it or outright take advantage of it. It doesn’t really check anything in A- or above all too reliably and is also easier than ever to overwhelm with threats like Chandelure and Alakazam surging, making it a pretty situational pick.

:Palossand: from B- to C: Palossand’s utility has massively dropped off without Terrakion in the tier, and it realistically provides few niches over other Ground-types right now. It can carve a fringe niche with its reliable recovery and matchups against Zeraora and Lycanroc-D, though it truly does remain on the cusp of viability at this stage of the metagame.

:Stakataka: from B- to C: Stakataka really doen’t accomplish much that isn’t better handled by a different Pokemon. A two-subrank drop feels appropriate given its typing’s general lack of utility and burden the tier’s defensive backbones put on its sweeping sets.

:Froslass: from C+ to C: Froslass is dropping to reflect that it hasn’t really taken off as a lead, which is its only niche in the tier. It offers some really unique support but just hasn’t been able to illustrate enough worth over more consistent options like Mew, justifying a small drop.

:Mantine: from C+ to C: As a bulky Water-type, Mantine generally struggles to distinguish a niche from its competition. The progress Slowking and Milotic can force with their pivoting moves and room for options like Future Sight and Ice Beam gives them a lot more splashability, whereas Mantine tends to be a bit of a do-nothing Pokemon and can frequently open the door for foes to take advantage of it, although it can still decently check Scizor and Keldeo.

:Politoed::Kingdra: from C+ to C: Rain unfortunately just hasn’t proven to be a worthwhile play style in most scenarios, often hoping for a favorable matchup against an unprepared team to truly sweep. Kingdra can be a devastating offensive presence but often needs to be on its A-game with prediction, while Politoed is genuinely terrible outside of providing Drizzle, offering barely any bulk, defensive capabilities, or useful support moves.

:Arctozolt::Rotom-mow::Sharpedo: from C to UR: The listed Pokemon don’t present niches that justify consistent usage or even spots in the ranks. Arctozolt is highly threatening on paper, but in practice is a huge chore to support and predict with. Rotom-C isn’t necessarily bad but just isn’t easy to manage with other Rotom forms and Electric/Grass-types giving it considerable competition. Sharpedo doesn’t really have the coverage or immediate power to exert itself as a worthwhile cleaner, especially considering the existing bevy of stronger picks for HO builds.

Thanks for the productive discussion this past cycle! Before opening this up for discussion I'd just like to leave a few announcements:

1. We'll be holding off from including discussion points for now just due to the likely changes to our metagame from tier shifts that are on the horizon. I'll be sure to write some up when we're settled in again!
2. This thread is open for discussion for now, though there's a chance that I'll lock it up in the earlier stages of the new metagame following shifts depending on how much things change, so keep that in mind.
3. I understand that with each update comes some disappointment, but I'd like to advise against making redundant posts! Nothing has been close to blacklist worthy yet, but if a nomination doesn't go through for multiple updates, then moving on from it is likely best in order to keep up a constructive and non-cyclical discussion amongst the community.

Thanks for reading and happy posting!
 
Last edited:
Aegislash unbanned :D, I'll claim this first post with some quick nominations that I believe wont change with the april shifts.

:mimikyu: to C+ - mimikyu in general hasnt been very good with the omnipresence of the grasses and scizor, but the unban of aegislash is the nail in the coffin as it outclasses mimi in being a ghost type that uses sneak and SD LO, not only this but with aegislash more anti-ghosts measures come which also affect mimikyu, I dont nom UR because at the end of the day mimi is still viable with its higher speed that outspeeds krookodile and play rough sometimes can be more useful.
:doublade: to UR - I genuinly see no reason to use doublade over aegislash, literally the only trait that it has over aegi is its higher physical bulk that allows it to 1v1 SD LO aegi if it decides to shadow claw early, and that is kind of a strech.
without terrakion and with aegislash here doublade literally does nothing more than its evolution.

Talking about aegislash
:aegislash: to A - Aegislash is cool, not really a staple like zera, scizor or mence because its slow af and not an automatic addition to most teams but switching around it can be annoying especially if you mispredict its set and your krook gets CC'd when you thought it was specs.
its versatile, strong and has some nice defensive utility. (It also revenges zam, that shit broken)
 

Monky25

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hey all, got some quick VR nominations to share. Ironically a solid half my post already got covered by the changes so that's neat, most of these aren't too crazy changes and reflect the recent meta from the last 2 weeks and can work now that Aegislash has officially been freed.
to A: After some time using Aegislash's different sets, I believe it should be A rank. It has a wide of sets ranging from subtoxic to mixed to specs and all are pretty good to use. Subtoxic goes ham against fatter teams and teams not ready for it while mixed destroys stall and fat. Specs, while a weaker chandelure imo, is still pretty good as the rocks resistance helps out a lot. Despite facing competition from scizor, aegislash has solid breaking power and wide set diversity, making it worth an A rank Pokemon in my eyes.
jirachi big sprite.png
to B+: This guy just keeps getting worse. Pokemon like chandelure, bisharp, and zera are at an all time high while steels like scizor, skarm, celesteela, and aegislash are eating into its usage. The bans of latias and terrak make it barely worth running and it feels even passive to a degree, B+ fits this guy better, it hasn't even been used recently in tours either with little usage in UUPL.
to B-: Tried this out after discussion in this discord, its pretty good for what its rank indicates. Life orb sets are probably the best as regenerator allows it to be a pivot and offset life orb/hazard damage. it feels less crowed in a tier without terrakion and I believe its good enough to rise up to B-.
to UR: Lool why would you use this now that Aegislash is fully legal. Time to go old friend, you were only useful for checking terrak and its gone too
to B: I think a rise to B at the minimum makes sense, I'd give it more time for rising it to B+ however. Anyway sylveon abuses common trends like the high usage of the dragons and keldeo, and its special bulk lets it trade with things like keldeo and maybe even scizor if physically invested. Not gonna restate too much but yeah rise to B for now.
to S: Super agree, mence is a top 5 mon right now and its team flexibility allows it to work on lots of teams. Being the bets defogger by far and also having powerful special attacking and DD sets makes mence tough to face. Look at the post by Adaam for more in depth reasoning but yeah 1000% support a mence rise to S
to A-: Agree with this one, its one of the better defoggers and helps work with kyurem or chandelure to clear hazards and lure grasses in for them to basically get a kill against the opposing team. Washer is pretty underrated and can form solid voltturn cores that are great in the metagame, should rise to A-
to B-/C+: Yeah echoing Totomon's sentiments now that Aegislash has been freed mimikyu faces even more issues as now it has competition as a physically attacking ghost. It still has its uses, but its weak power when unboosted makes it hard to use in an amoonguss, skarm, and tangrowth tier and should drop as a result.
EDIT: I am dumb and forgot to nominate
to A rank. Super threatening sweeper on the ladder right now and goes crazy against the dumb regenerator cores, likes aegislash being in the tier as well as it now has even more reason to use it. Give this guy his due raise.

Overall nice changes by the VR team, good job and most of the changes make sense. Meta will be shaken up soon so its gonna be cool to see what happens, but for now here are my thoughts right now, and be sure to expect a post a week or two after shifts from me lmao.
 
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Aqua Jet

Träumerei
is a Community Contributor
:Aegislash: A: Sporting a high variety of sets and great offensive & defensive stats, I think Aegislash should be A. Not going to bother going into depth as Monky25 covered all the big topics in the post above this one.
:Doublade: B- -> UR: It was less then mediocre before the unbanning of it's evolution, but now that Aegislash has returned to the tier Doublade is outclassed in too many ways to remain on the VR. It's only niche is holding Eviolite to significantly boost its Defence, but its lack of Special Defence holds it back from maintaining a significant niche in the tier. Furthermore, as TotomonGang mentioned, Doublade has lost one of the most significant Pokémon it countered being Choice Band Terrakion. Between Terrakion going, Aegislash arriving and Knock Off being on almost every team, UU has no need for Doublade.
:Milotic: B- -> B: After the return of Aegislash to the tier I've been seeing more of Milotic. A decent movepool, superb Special Defence coupled with decent HP and Defensive stats plus Marvel Scale establishes a small niche for Milotic as a bulky Water type.
 

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