Resource SS UU Viability Ranking Thread

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Lilburr

shock to your cardiac
is a Tiering Contributor
Hi!
I mentioned this stuff to the VR team but wanted to get some opinions on this thread too, so here's an unofficial slate for you guys to talk about!

Rises
Cobalion:
A+ -> S - Cobalion has been a dominant offensive threat since its arrival in the tier, but recently it's gotten quite a bit better. Being a solid offensive check to Sylveon is great, and having a much more freed-up item slot due to no longer needing Shuca Berry makes it quite versatile. Occa Berry, Black Belt, Leftovers, Rocky Helmet, Life Orb, Choice Band, Choice Specs - all of these are just examples of what it can use. It can very easily sweep against non-Doublade teams due to its fantastic Speed tier and ease of setting up, and is overall quite a nightmare to check thanks to having coverage for many answers like Golisopod and Mantine in Stone Edge. It may not quite be on Noivern's level, but it's a good deal better than most of A+, and S may reflect its hold over the meta better.

Gigalith:
A -> A+ - Gigalith has cemented its position as the best defensive Stealth Rock setter in the tier by virtue of its great mixed bulk and the fact that it's quite tough to switch into because of its naturally high Attack stat and great coverage options in Earthquake, Throat Chop and Superpower. It does a unique job of checking a whole host of threats like Chandelure, Sylveon and Noivern while not being passive, and it beats most of the tier's hazard removal one-on-one - in addition, it is the single best check to Sun teams in the tier. A+ represents its incredible splashability and defensive utility better than its current A ranking.

Incineroa
r: A -> A+ - Incineroar is also flourishing as a defensive option thanks to its fantastic typing and utility. It can check a host of threats like Chandelure, Doublade and Espeon, and its strong Knock Off in addition to pivoting options in Parting Shot and U-turn make it very difficult to switch into. Offensive sets using Swords Dance are also seeing much more usage as an effective way to wallbreak while retaining a strong defensive presence, utilising its excellent coverage movepool with moves like Close Combat to threaten a variety of would-be checks like Rhyperior and Gigalith. Its dominance in the tier cannot be understated, and an A+ ranking reflects that very well.

Heliolisk:
A- -> A - Heliolisk is an amazing wallbreaker with a surprising amount of defensive utility in Dry Skin and its Normal typing, despite its mediocre bulk. Electric is an amazing offensive typing in this tier, with the Grass-types in the tier being quite abusable by very common Pokemon like Darmanitan, Incineroar and Noivern. Ground-types also cannot switch into Heliolisk because of its access to Grass Knot, OHKOing the main Ground-type in the tier in Rhyperior, with Hyper Voice doing a lot of damage to others like Flygon. It can run coverage to beat many Pokemon that would other stomach its hits decently, like Focus Blast for Incineroar and Cobalion. Its Speed tier is also amazing in this metagame, allowing it to just barely outspeed Cobalion and almost every other relevant Pokemon in the tier, beaten only by Espeon, Inteleon, Noivern and Ribombee. Its versatility and strength make it generally the best offensive Electric-type in the tier, warranting a rise.

Necrozma:
A- -> A - Necrozma has seen an uptick in usage recently. Its Dragon Dance set is very hard to stop once it gets going, and setting it up isn't too difficult either thanks to its great bulk, decent typing, access to Moonlight and its amazing ability Prism Armor. Its coverage makes it very difficult to stop defensive, too. In addition, many have been exploring a more defensive Stealth Rock set, which is a unique way to set the hazard while still checking Pokemon like Cobalion and Lucario. It has many other viable options, too, like Choiced sets, Calm Mind variants and more.

Escavalier:
B+ -> A- - A lot of recent meta trends have been good for Escavalier. Despite Darmanitan entering the tier and Sun's current dominance, Fire-types are on the decline on most teams, and not many Pokemon run Fire-type coverage (or at least not on all their sets). Its unique typing allows it to check many attackers like Gardevoir and Sylveon as long as they aren't locked into Mystical Fire, and it completely counters the highly-dominant Roserade. It's an extremely effective Steel-type overall in a tier that lacks good options.

Flygon:
B+ -> A- - Flygon has been rising as a Choice Scarf user more and more with Mamoswine's leave. Sylveon dropping has been a bit rough for it, but its defensive utility is appreciated more than ever right now - it's one of the only Rock resists that doesn't immediately fold over to Earthquake, it's a Fire resist that isn't weak to Grass etc. and it also revenges Dragon Dance Haxorus without relying on First Impression which is huge. It continues to prove why it's easily the best Choice Scarf user in the tier and is much more on par with the A- group than its current placement.

Pangoro:
B -> B+ - Despite living in the shadow of Machamp and Sirfetch'd in early UU, Pangoro has always been a relatively solid pick, though a quiet one. However, it has recently been causing quite a bit more pandemonium (s/o CBU) because of how it utterly destroys most Fighting resists with its nuclear Knock Off, being able to easily OHKO Pokemon like Noivern. In addition, its good coverage allows it to threaten Sylveon with an OHKO, and its access to priority is pretty helpful too. Its typing is also unique defensively and it means it can check certain threats like Necrozma and Polteageist. It's not quite as good as Machamp, but it's certainly proving to be quite a bit more viable than Sirfetch'd as a hard-hitting Fighting-type thanks to its great secondary STAB.

Ribombee:
B- -> B - BUZZ BUZZ. Sticky Web may be on the decline but Ribombee itself is still a strong force, able to use its unique tricks to give it a niche over other offensive Fairies like Sylveon and Gardevoir. Access to U-turn and a good secondary STAB in Bug Buzz allows it to either pivot out of or slowly break through Bronzong, a Pokemon often used to check these threats. In addition, Sticky Web can be run on Specs sets to support teammates like Lucario, Haxorus and Chandelure. There has also been some experimentation with Heavy-Duty Boots sets, giving it some versatility. All of this positive traits give it a solid niche in the meta. Plus, who doesn't want the bee to be in B?

Linoone:
C+ -> B- - Not much to say here, Linoone's pretty difficult to stop once it gets going and it's a staple on Screens teams. It's got a few checks that it struggles to beat like Cobalion, but chipping Coba isn't the hardest thing to do and there's a severe lack of Normal resists that it can't beat otherwise. It's definitely a niche sweeper but it's got a lot more merit than its C+ ranking would suggest.

Togedemaru:
C+ -> B- - Togedemaru has been rising as a scarfer and is seeing quite a bit of usage in UUPL. It's not quite as good as Flygon and struggles a bit with its Speed tier leaving it just slower than Haxorus, but the support it provides to its team with U-turn and Nuzzle/Toxic in addition to its defensive utility thanks to great resistances and Lightning Rod makes it quite the helpful teammate to have. It's also got a specially defensive set that acts as a reliable answer to top threats like Specs Sylveon and Heliolisk. I may be biased, but I think it belongs a little higher than C+!

Silvally-Ghost:
C- -> C - Silvally-Ghost is a unique setup sweeper, taking advantage of its ability to blow up traditional Ghost resists with Explosion to pave the way for teammates like Polteageist and Chandelure. It's a solid option by virtue of its strength and bulk and rising one subrank would reflect it a little better.

Drops
Reuniclus:
A -> A- - Reuni has struggled with the rise of Dark-types like Incineroar and the general influx of massively powerful wallbreakers it can't really handle because of its awful Speed tier. It also suffers from competition with Espeon and Gardevoir as offensive Psychic-types and has massive 4mss because it wants setup moves, coverage and Recover. It's still a very scary and versatile wallbreaker and bulky threat, but it's slightly overrated at A, even with the recent discovery of different sets like max spdef AV.

Toxtricity:
A -> A- - Toxtricity hasn't gotten worse, really; if anything it's gotten a little better with Mamo gone and a new threat in Sylveon that it can kinda wall thanks to its quad-resistance to Hyper Voice, as well as its Shift Gear set picking up traction. This nom is mainly just a readjustment; A was always too high for it. It suffers due to its mediocre Speed tier and lack of defensive utility, as well as being fairly easily checked by mons like Rhyperior and Gigalith. It's much less splashable than Heliolisk as an offensive Electric-type and the rankings should reflect that.

Weezing-Galar:
A -> A- - Weezing's in a rough spot. Despite being a great check to rising mons like Pangoro and Incineroar, it just can't check many physical threats like Cobalion, Darmanitan and Escavalier very effectively. It also can't really Defog on any hazard setters. Offensive Weezing is still an A- worthy threat and most teams can't switch into it reliably at all, but it has definitely gotten worse.

Milotic:
A -> A- - Milo - and bulky waters in general - are all facing stiff competition from Rotom-Wash rn and are also heavily threatened by it. It's also not really a good check to things like Choice Band Darmanitan and still struggles with mons like Toxtricity and Heliolisk. Feels weird considering I thought this thing was S rank not so long ago, but it's definitely gotten a bit worse and should drop.

Golisopod:
A- -> B+ - ;__; I'm sorry pod. Golisopod has gotten a lot worse with Mamo's departure, since a lot of its niche stemmed from being a good switch into Mamoswine. A lot of setup sweepers like Haxorus are running Protect now to prevent Golisopod from checking them, and it doesn't get many opportunities to come into battle. It also can't really check new fast threats like Darm and Sylveon gives lots of teams a sturdy Bug resist, so unfortunately it's just not as good as it was before.

Mantine:
A- -> B+ - Mantine probably shouldn't have been this high to begin with. It can't check a whole lot of stuff, with even things like Golisopod ruining its longevity by removing its Boots. It also HATES Rotom-Wash and gets smacked by most of the Fighting-types in the tier, so making use of its typing is pretty difficult. It's still a unique defogger and fat water but just isn't quite up to scratch at A-.

Rotom-C:
A- -> B+ - You've heard this story before - it's just not as good as the other elecs in the tier. Rotom-Wash, Heliolisk and Toxtricity give it too much competition, and it's just hard to find a reason to put this thing on teams. It's cool that it can check Rotom-Wash but it's not really bulky enough to do it long-term, and it can't take on Heliolisk or Toxtricity at all. Being weak to Ice Beam also SUCKS on a mon that's supposed to check Waters. It's just not that great atm.

Umbreon:
A- -> B+ - Umbreon has seen better days. It faces big competition from (and gets invalidated by) Sylveon as a cleric and Incineroar as a defensive Dark-type. Its bulk is still insane and allows it to check a bunch of stuff, but most teams make more use of the utilty provided by Sylveon or Incineroar than they do with Umbreon's talents.

Indeedee:
B -> B- - Indeedee kinda sucks tbh. It's fast but not fast enough, strong but not strong enough and extremely frail with zero defensive utility. Offensive sets aren't great at all. Terrain Extender is an interesting niche to support Polteageist mainly, but that mon has also seen better days for sure, so this one should probably go down too.

Sigilyph:
B -> C+ - This breaks my heart bc I loved Sigi but this ranking feels more like a leftover from the slightly-post-Dynamax meta than anything else. Sigilyph can't really break past most teams and has severe 4MSS, and while its Speed tier is solid it's not quite good enough. It has seen some innovation with stuff like Tinted Lens and Defog but it's still not really good at all and can't find its way onto most teams.

Rillaboom:
C- -> UR - The monkey is unfortunately completely nicheless. Anything it does is done better by Tsareena or other similar Grass-types, and it should've been unranked as soon as Home dropped.

That's all! You can probably tell but this took like 2 hours and I got pretty tired when writing the last ones lol. Here's a list of the noms and their BBcode so that you can give your opinion a little easier :3

Code:
Rises

[b][img]https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-swsh/icon/638.png[/img] Cobalion:[/b] A+ -> S -
[b][img]https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-swsh/icon/526.png[/img] Gigalith:[/b] A -> A+ -
[b][img]https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-swsh/icon/727.png[/img] Incineroar:[/b] A -> A+ -
[b][img]https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-swsh/icon/695.png[/img] Heliolisk:[/b] A- -> A -
[b][img]https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-swsh/icon/800.png[/img] Necrozma:[/b] A- -> A -
[b][img]https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-swsh/icon/589.png[/img] Escavalier:[/b] B+ -> A- -
[b][img]https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-swsh/icon/330.png[/img] Flygon:[/b] B+ -> A- -
[b][img]https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-swsh/icon/675.png[/img] Pangoro:[/b] B -> B+ -
[b][img]https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-swsh/icon/743.png[/img] Ribombee:[/b] B- -> B -
[b][img]https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-swsh/icon/264.png[/img] Linoone:[/b] C+ -> B- -
[b][img]https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-swsh/icon/777.png[/img] Togedemaru:[/b] C+ -> B- -
[b][img]https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-swsh/icon/773.png[/img] Silvally-Ghost:[/b] C- -> C -

Drops

[b][img]https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-swsh/icon/579.png[/img] Reuniclus:[/b] A -> A- -
[b][img]https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-swsh/icon/849.png[/img] Toxtricity:[/b] A -> A- -
[b][img]https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-swsh/icon/110-g.png[/img] Weezing-Galar:[/b] A -> A- -
[b][img]https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-swsh/icon/350.png[/img] Milotic:[/b] A -> A- -
[b][img]https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-swsh/icon/768.png[/img] Golisopod:[/b] A- -> B+ -
[b][img]https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-swsh/icon/226.png[/img] Mantine:[/b] A- -> B+ -
[b][img]https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-swsh/icon/479m.png[/img] Rotom-C:[/b] A- -> B+ -
[b][img]https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-swsh/icon/197.png[/img] Umbreon:[/b] A- -> B+ -
[b][img]https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-swsh/icon/876.png[/img] Indeedee:[/b] B -> B- -
[b][img]https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-swsh/icon/561.png[/img] Sigilyph:[/b] B -> C+ -
[b][img]https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-swsh/icon/812.png[/img] Rillaboom:[/b] C- -> UR -
 

Estarossa

i'm not nice
is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
:ss/weezing-galar:

Want to post in favour of Weezing staying at A.

While defensive Weezing-Galar has definitely seen better days, offensive weezing-galar is actually in a really great position right now compared to the recent Mamoswine metagame, since its now much more free to run offensive sets again. Also, usage of its main checks in bulky waters with recovery like mantine/milotic are way down, while Rotom-Wash as a bulky water cannot switch into it at all, and offensive weezing can offensively check a lot of key high usage pokemon in the current metagame like Escavalier, Incineroar, Flygon, and even Sylveon with the threat of Sludge Bomb poisons / Toxic Spikes being set up.

On the topic of tspikes its also a very effective setter of them atm, increased usage of escavalier coupled with decreased usage of synth on roserade also means they they are easier to keep up in the long run or punish roserade with, and Weezing pressures our removers extremely well, and tspikes are generally really nice atm in this meta with mons like Sylveon/Gigalith everywhere being crippled by them.
 

Taptricity

Trick or Treat!
is a Pre-Contributor
Brief nom.

:Whimsicott:to B/B+

Ok Whimsicott is hella slept on. Its honestly a super obnoxious mon to face. First off its a serviceable check to Haxorus and Flygon two highly threatening Dragon-types in the metagame. The main appeal to this mon however, is its volatile Prankster+Encore combo. You switch Whimsicott in on the predicted set up and you are now in a favorable position. This move highly discourages set up throughout the match and as long as Whimsicott is still alive, cleaners like Polteageist are stopped dead in their tracks. Locking Haxorus into Dragon Dance so that you can avoid the possible Poison Jab makes it a far sturdier Hax check compared to other Fairy-types as well. This mon is honestly the bane of offense. Whimsicott has other utility options in its arsenal as well. Prankster Defog can be especially useful in the matchup against offensive teams to guarantee removing hazards like Webs and Screens. Memento is another neat tech to get an opportunity to set up on your side of the field. Try out this mon because its a unique offensive pivot compared to its Fairy-type bretheren.

Also one nom that I agree with the most is the Necro rise. This monster has hundreds of completely viable sets (HYPERBOLE) which makes it superbly difficult to check.
 

Adaam

Light Machoke
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis the 8th Grand Slam Winner
Posting this while on the toilet so bear with me for any possible incoherency.

Panda is on par with Machamp in viability. Stab Knock Off + Dark typing is huge in the Doublade, Necrozma, Teapot, and Reuniclus matchup. Not to mention Scrappy’s buff this gen makes it even harder to play around. Machamp can switch moves and run some cheese AV set, but if I want outright power, Pangoro is the first fighting type that comes to mind.

Jahseh (Copperajah) should be B at the very least. It sets rocks and checks nearly everything Bronzong does, but it trades Levitate and better bulk for base 130 (?) attack and the best offensive movepool I’ve ever seen oml. Stuff like Haxorus, Pangoro, Chandelure etc don’t come into it nearly as freely as they do on Bronzong. This beast has like -1 theoretical switch-ins, and it even has Whirlwind to deny Sylveon heals. Bronzong is still more splashable but Jah has carved a niche out for it.

Echoing some things Lilburr mentioned, Pod is worse without Mamo now and Protect spam. Rotom’s drop really hurts Milotic and Mantine as it both counters it and takes up the Water-type slot on a team. Tox however should remain in A. People are exploring more sets besides the Shift Gear and Specs ones. I think running some bulk on it might be effective on it as a strong pivot into Cobalion, Rose, and Sylveon. Something Rotom only dreams of doing.

Gigalith and Incin are god mons and should be A+.

Inteleon is garbage and every time I see it used in UUPL it nets about 42% in damage. I’d unrank it myself but that’s insulting to everything else we have unranked.
 
226.png
Mantine: to B+/B

More or less reiterating Lilburr - this thing is not worthy of an A- atm, dunno why it was put there in the first place.

It gets utterly bitch-slapped by some of the tier's staples, such as:

Rotom-W
Heliolisk
Cobalion
(With volt-switch)
Machamp (By virtue of Guts)
Toxtricity

And it even struggles to handle with slightly more fringe picks, like Toxicroak, Togedemaru (although toge hates being scald burnt), and Rotom-C.

Furthermore, not being able to run lefties means that its longevity is hurt slightly - its access to Roost somewhat patches that up - but what with the abundace of Knock Off spammers in the tier, intertwined with the fact that it will get forced out a lot, it means that this poor manta ray won't be able to pivot in and out as much as one would like it.

On the flip side, it is a fat water that doesn't get shattered by Roserade, which is a neat tech I guess. And it can defog on it too.
All in all, the age of bulky waters in SS UU is coming to an (albeit gradual) decline, and Mantine perfectly reflects that.
 

pokeisfun

UU/PU player and community member
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
Stunfisk Galar should be ranked right below whatever Bronzong is because of this set.


[SET]
name: Specially Defensive
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Stealth Rock
move 3: Yawn
move 4: Protect
item: Leftovers
nature: Careful
ability: Mimicy
evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

Galar Stunfisk serves as a defensive niche in two ways: it counters extremely powerful special wallbreakers like Toxtricity and it can also reliably set up Stealth Rock. While Galar Stunfisk's role in the tier is often overshadowed by Bronzong and even Steelix, Stunfisk's greater special bulk compared to both of these Pokemon and Electric immunity compared to Bronzong make it a good choice for teams struggling with Toxtricity. Meanwhile, Galar Stunfisk is still a good defensive check to many of the Pokemon Bronzong normally counters like Roserade. Earthquake is Stunfisk's STAB of choice and has good coverage by itself in UU, hitting many threats that could otherwise switch into Stunfisk like Incineroar and Lucario for respectable damage while also damaging the threats Stunfisk is supposed to counter like Gardevoir and Choice Specs Sylveon. Yawn and Protect form a combination that can force out threats while also keeping Stunfisk's Stealth Rock against prominent Defoggers like Noivern and Rotom-Wash. Unfortunately, Stunfisk has very limited move options so there is essentially no deviation from this set - the common defensive idea of Toxic stalling is not available since Galar Stunfisk does not learn Toxic nor does Galar Stunfisk has access to a decent steel STAB move to more badly damage Fairies and Noivern. Absolute maximum special bulk allows Stunfisk to more easily switch into Choice Specs Sylveon and Toxtricity, while also letting Stunfisk still strongly check Roserade as the initial Leaf Storm from Leftovers offensive Roserade does 47% maximum. Mimicry is Stunfisk's only ability and rarely changes gameplay except against Indeedee's Psychic terrain, which changes Stunfisk Galar to a pure Pyschic type for as long as the terrain is active.

Galar Stunfisk fits best on more defensive balanced teams that need a strong response to Toxtricity. Generally, it fits on teams where Bronzong would be appreciated but the need to counter strong Electric attackers like Heliolisk and Toxtricity is more important than Bronzong's Levitate which lets it be a strong check to threats like Rhyperior and Flygon. Since Galar Stunfisk has no recovery options outside Leftovers + Protect and an unreliable Pain Split, Wish support from Sylveon and Umbreon, which also provide cleric support, is helpful to keep Galar Stunfisk healthy throughout a game. Sylveon in particular can absorb many Fighting moves that trouble Stunfisk like Choice Band Pangoro's Close Combat - especially notable because Stunfisk can use Protect to scout the tier's many Choice item Pokemon. is often Passive Pokemon like Vaporeon, Sylveon, and Bronzong that sun teams take advantage of appreciate Arcanine's ability to hard-check Venusaur. Because Stunfisk is weak to Water and Fire and can check the most prominent Grass type in the tier, Roserade, bulky water partners like Milotic are appreciated to be able to switch into threats like Darmanitan and Intelon. Again, Galar Stunfisk's Protect frequently comes into play against these offensive threats because they often run Choice items, and Stunfisk can easily absorb U-Turns from these Pokemon should they over predict against a bulky water switch in.

In terms of play, while Galar Stunfisk is generally a normal defensive Pokemon, the Yawn and Protect combination mentioned before is a rare tactic that can be explained further. As Defoggers like Noivern or Rotom-W switch in, Stunfisk will often be using Stealth Rock. The Stunfisk user has to predict the Defog and Yawn on that turn - the next turn they can Protect on an attack or Stealth Rock on a predicted switch. Since the Defogger will now be asleep, the hazards stay on and the Galar Stunfisk user can switch into a Pokemon to force the Defogger out - for this reason, Roserade is a good partner to force out Rotom-W. Roserade also can provide Spikes which makes Yawn a more powerful phazing move.
 

pokeisfun

UU/PU player and community member
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
" is often Passive Pokemon like Vaporeon, Sylveon, and Bronzong that sun teams take advantage of appreciate Arcanine's ability to hard-check Venusaur. "

oops I was just copying the skeleton analysis from arcanine, it's a good set you guys should check it out: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/arcanine-qc-0-2.3662744/#post-8432772 except the analysis probably needs to research physically defensive, it's fantastic on fat (good Haxorus check, Cobalion switch in, Machamp counter)
 

warzoid

wreck into a poll like a Raichu volt
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
:alcremie:C -> unranked: Instant recovery is nice, but not enough to justify using Alcremie over Sylveon.
:rapidash-galar: C -> C- / unranked: While Rapidash might be able to put in work in the right matchup, such as if an opponent were to, say, bring a team with no fairy resists, you're a lot more likely to be shut down by something like Escavalier these days.
:morpeko: C- -> unranked: Does anyone even use Morpeko? I don't think Rapid Spin makes up for being slower and weaker (and frailer) than Heliolisk.
:rillaboom: C- -> unranked: Sorry Rillaboom, you're not good.
:avalugg:B- -> C+: Avalugg's only usable on stall, so put it in C+ with Quagsire and Pyukumuku. Sylveon gives stall teams another option to improve the Haxorus matchup. Mamoswine's departure made Avalugg less useful as well.
:gastrodon: B- -> B: Being a ground type that beats Rotom-Wash gives Gastrodon a niche.
:incineroar: A -> A+: Incineroar has established itself as the premier offensive pivot. It's better than most of the other mons in A rank.
:pangoro:B -> A- / B+: I agree with Adaam that Pangoro is just as good as Machamp. Dark typing is great because it allows you to run non-Incineroar cores without worrying about getting swept by Polteageist, and also allows Pangoro to switch in on stuff like Psychic Bronzong. Sylveon gets smacked by Gunk Shot / Iron Head.
 

Ausma

Bonafide Monafide!
is a Pre-Contributor
Here to give some quick thoughts on some discussion points and a few thoughts on some mons just in general.


Sylveon A+ -> S:
Agree


I absolutely agree with this. In many of my games, Sylveon has proven itself to possess the traits necessary of an S rank mon. It is incredibly splashable both offensively and defensively, it yields incredibly potent and useful utility, and has a typing/stat spread that is phenomenal in our current metagame. Truthfully, I can't really think of any reason why it shouldn't rise given just how useful and flexible it is.


Gigalith A -> A+:
Agree


If this nom was a thing about a month ago, I'd likely disagree with this, but, I agree with it now. By a landslide it is the best Rocker in the tier, even moreso than Cobalion, imo. The fact it is such a good defensive switchin against many special breakers in the tier not only gives it a great place defensively, but also gives it safe Rocks or Toxics, which is a godsend in its own right. Something else about it that I haven't seen talked about a lot is how it is a great Sun check, as Sand Stream shuts down Sun, which in this meta gives it even more of a niche, and more justification to be in A+.


Milotic A -> A-:
Agree


Unfortunately, yeah, with Rotom-Wash's drop, Milotic is very outclassed. I know it's a bit of a hot take, but I always believed Vaporeon was superior to it as a defensive Water anyway given how relevant Wishpassing is in this tier. But, Rotom trumps both, and with it, Milotic loses some relevance.


Necrozma: A- -> A
Agree


Please rise this edgy boy. I made a post here describing how I feel about it, and I still believe with its insanely efficient flexibility that it's worthy of a rise. Incineroar's newfound prevalence does give it a troubling time, though.


Reuniclus A -> A-:
Unsure, leaning toward Agree


Honestly, I'm unsure about this one. I've seen a lot of Knock Off techs with AV that make it actually kind of interesting, as it is a great way to bait and punish Incineroar switch-ins. But, regardless, it's just outclassed, and Incineroar still gives it a really hard time, much moreso than Necrozma.


Incineroar: A -> A+
Agree


My big cat is finally getting somewhere, and I couldn't be happier. Really, what is there to say about it that hasn't already been said?


Rotom-C A- -> B+:
Agree


Rotom-C is extremely weird, and when I say weird, I really mean weird. It has a really unique type combination that yields some utility, but current metagame trends really give it a hard time defensively. I think it has potential down the line, but I could even argue that it should drop to B. I just don't see what it does that Rotom-W doesn't do better, especially given how unfavorable the metagame is for it right now.


Weezing-Galar: A -> A-
Disagree


Despite how it is losing relevancy given some rising offensive threats, Incineroar's newfound prevalence works greatly in its favor, as it synergizes incredibly well with it (It also is a good defensive Sylveon answer as well). Psychic types are in something of a tough place currently because of big cat, and Weezing appreciates Reuniclus being put on a leash so it can do its job more effectively. I've seen a rise in Tspikes as well, which is surprisingly effective, I've found. Neutralizing Gas is also something that is seldom talked about, and while Levitate outclasses it by a good margin, it's kind of a badass, unique tech in combination with Tspikes, as it can poison things like Rotom or Flygon on the switch, and better shackle rising star Machamp. If you're feeling especially quirky, it can put a stop to Gigalith's Sand Stream shenanigans if you're running a Sun squad.

Thanks for coming to my ted talk. might add some more later
 
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Here to give some quick thoughts on some discussion points and a few thoughts on some mons just in general.


Sylveon A+ -> S:

I absolutely agree with this. In many of my games, Sylveon has proven itself to possess the traits necessary of an S rank mon. It is incredibly splashable both offensively and defensively, it yields incredibly potent and useful utility, and has a typing/stat spread that is phenomenal in our current metagame. Truthfully, I can't really think of any reason why it shouldn't rise given just how useful and flexible it is.


Gigalith A -> A+:

If this nom was a thing about a month ago, I'd likely disagree with this, but, I agree with it now. By a landslide it is the best Rocker in the tier, even moreso than Cobalion, imo. The fact it is such a good defensive switchin against many special breakers in the tier not only gives it a great place defensively, but also gives it safe Rocks or Toxics, which is a godsend in its own right. Something else about it that I haven't seen talked about a lot is how it is a great Sun check, as Sand Stream shuts down Sun, which in this meta gives it even more of a niche, and more justification to be in A+.


Milotic A -> A-:

Unfortunately, yeah, with Rotom-Wash's drop, Milotic is very outclassed. I know it's a bit of a hot take, but I always believed Vaporeon was superior to it as a defensive Water anyway given how relevant Wishpassing is in this tier. But, Rotom trumps both, and with it, Milotic loses some relevance.


Necrozma: A- -> A

Please rise this edgy boy. I made a post here describing how I feel about it, and I still believe with its insanely efficient flexibility that it's worthy of a rise. Incineroar's newfound prevalence does give it a troubling time, though.


Reuniclus A -> A-:

Honestly, I'm unsure about this one, but I'm leaning toward agree. I've seen a lot of Knock Off techs with AV that make it actually kind of interesting, as it is a great way to bait and punish Incineroar switch-ins. But, regardless, it's just outclassed, and Incineroar still gives it a really hard time, much moreso than Necrozma.


Incineroar: A -> A+

My big cat is finally getting somewhere, and I couldn't be happier. Really, what is there to say about it that hasn't already been said?


Rotom-C A- -> B+:

Rotom-C is extremely weird, and when I say weird, I really mean weird. It has a really unique type combination that yields some utility, but current metagame trends really give it a hard time defensively. I think it has potential down the line, but I could even argue that it should drop to B. I just don't see what it does that Rotom-W does better, especially given how unfavorable the metagame is for it right now.


Weezing-Galar: A -> A-

I actually highly disagree with this. Despite how it is losing relevancy given some rising offensive threats, Incineroar's newfound prevalence works greatly in its favor, as it synergizes incredibly well with it (It also is a good defensive Sylveon answer as well). Psychic types are in something of a tough place currently because of big cat, and Weezing appreciates Reuniclus being put on a leash so it can do its job more effectively. I've seen a rise in Tspikes as well, which is surprisingly effective, I've found. Neutralizing Gas is also something that is seldom talked about, and while Levitate outclasses it by a good margin, it's kind of a badass, unique tech in combination with Tspikes, as it can poison things like Rotom or Flygon on the switch, and better shackle rising star Machamp. If you're feeling especially quirky, it can put a stop to Gigalith's Sand Stream shenanigans if you're running a Sun squad.

Thanks for coming to my ted talk. might add some more later
Definitely disagree with part bolded and italicised, but to each his own. Instant recovery and ability to run one more move changes things around.
 

pokeisfun

UU/PU player and community member
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
Does anyone think Rotom-W is actually A+ rank? Serious question, everybody seems to just take it for granted as a good Pokemon because it was so good when it was UU last generation. But back then, it had Scizor as the perfect partner. Right now, Rotom-W struggles HEAVILY against two threats it should beat - offensively, it can't break through bulky waters like Milotic without using Nasty Plot, an uncommon set because of its slightly below average speed for a sweeper, which means it can get Toxic stalled. Defensively, it can't properly counter Darmanitan because of it's bad HP stat.

252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 44 Def Rotom-Wash: 122-144 (40.2 - 47.5%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

A single U-Turn prediction or running HDB or Choice Band/Life Orb means Rotom-W has basically no right in saying it counters Darmanitan. It also hates switching into Incineroar, an even more common Fire type, because of Knock Off and Toxic.

Finally, as a Defogger, it's actually countered by the most powerful hazard setter of them all, Roserade. It also cannot reliably Defog against Bronzong, Power Whip Copperjah (or Yawn Galar Stunfisk), SR Necrozma or Celebi. While it can sort of beat Gigalith and it does beat Rhyperior and Golisipod and Torkoal easily, you can see overall Rotom-W has a bad match up vs a lot of hazard users.

A is already pushing it, A+ is not really justified at all, A- is far more appropriate
 

warzoid

wreck into a poll like a Raichu volt
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
With Mamoswine gone, defensive Rotom-Wash doesn't really need to be running the Timid spread. I've been liking a bulkier spread of 252 HP / 208+ Def / 48 Spe, with enough speed for Modest Sylveon. Darm still does a good chunk but it's a lot less painful.

252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 208+ Def Rotom-Wash: 96-113 (31.5 - 37.1%) -- 81.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Rotom-Wash feels like an A+ threat to me. I look at so many teams in the builder and think, "How do I stop Rotom-Wash from just clicking Volt Switch on everything?" And usually the answer is something like "run a grass type and pray the opponent doesn't know they can click Volt Switch versus Rhyperior." Rotom-Wash isn't going to hard counter a lot of stuff (there are at least 5 other water types you'd rather have on a stall team), but it is going to take a few hits, gain momentum with Volt Switch, and maybe Defog on Gigalith or Rhyperior. If you've got a Milotic you're still not exactly happy to be in versus a Rotom-Wash lacking Nasty Plot, since you'll have to Recover on the Volt Switch if you don't want to get chipped, giving your opponent a free switch to their breaker. It's even more annoying if Rotom has Toxic or Pain Split. I could see Rotom-Wash getting worse if Gigalith drops in usage following the Venusaur ban and if Gastrodon continues to rise, but at the moment it's certainly not A- in my view.
 

Hilomilo

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Thanks for the solid discussion! Here's what we've got for this update:
Rises
A -> A+
A- -> A
B+ -> A-
B -> A-
B- -> B
C+ -> B
C+ -> B-
C -> C+
UR -> C-
Drops
A+ -> A
A -> A-
A- -> B+
B+ -> B
B -> B-
B -> C+
B- -> C+
B- -> C
C+ -> C
C -> C-
C -> UR
C- -> UR
  • Incineroar’s importance has reached an all-time high as several variations of both SD and pivoting sets have seen more extensive usage. It offers many massive tools between Knock Off, Intimidate, and slow pivoting to support the tier’s several breakers. This in addition to the top-notch offensive and defensive utility its typing provides has made it among the most splashable Pokemon available.
  • Dragon Dance Necrozma has emerged as one of the tier’s most threatening sweepers thanks to its amazing coverage, bulk, and potency on the tier’s rising screens teams. Its limited selection of checks and great UUPL showing are well worth a rise from A-.
  • Escavalier’s rise represents its massively improved building value and surging usage to boot. It provides top notch role compression between applying solid offensive pressure and checking defining presences in Roserade, Haxorus, Necrozma, and Sylveon.
  • The utility of Flygon’s typing has only increased following Mamoswine’s ban, improving its reliability as a top revenge killer with Choice Scarf and even allowing for some more experimentation with Dragon Dance sets, making it applicable enough for a rise.
  • Pangoro has seen a huge surge in relevance as an awesome breaker with solid defensive utility to boot. It blanket checks several troublesome foes, including Necrozma, Polteageist, Reuniclus, and Doublade, allowing it to offer clear perks over other Fighting-types and establish a much larger niche in the meta.
  • Despite competition from Incineroar, Arcanine has developed a decent defensive niche with the unique perks it provides, including Fairy and Bug resistances, recovery, and most notably Teleport. Its increased relevance is well reflected by a small bump in ranking.
  • Gastrodon’s worth has largely increased as Rotom-W has become a defining part of the metagame, though it also presents a strong check to the likes of Chandelure, Inteleon, Weezing, and Heliolisk, giving it strong current defensive utility and solid cause for a rise.
  • Ribombee has carved a niche with its Choice Specs set, providing advantages like a premier Speed tier, pivoting, and Sticky Web over Sylveon and Gardevoir despite its lackluster bulk. It has a strong offensive matchup and can hold its own more consistently than the rest of B-.
  • Silvally-Steel’s rise from B- better represents the value of its solid versatility and role compression. It compresses a lot of great traits possessed by other Steel-types between a firm offensive presence, speed, pivoting, and decent bulk while offering its own unique tools, like hazard removal and a wide offensive movepool. It can be overwhelmed at times but provides a unique combination of applicable traits, justifying a small rise.
  • Barbaracle has found a strong niche in UU as one of the most threatening sweepers on screens offenses. A two-subrank rise represents its surge in relevance and legitimate threat level under the correct support conditions.
  • Despite recently dropping, Copperajah has recently blossomed as a hazard setter that boasts a great typing, bulk, and insane coverage, showcasing its firm niche over the likes of Bronzong and having a fair UUPL showing. With investment in bulk, it offers a check to Roserade, Celebi, and Sylveon while providing a great offensive presence. It has a clear niche that upon further exploration could warrant rising even higher down the road.
  • Blastoise has overcome the early skepticism surrounding it to develop a few decent applications worth a rise. Defensive spinning sets have shown their worth through sparing uupl usage, while both physical and special variants of Shell Smash are also quite threatening in their own right, particularly with screens support. While it still isn’t meta defining, its number of uses and applicability is well reflected with a small rise.
  • Linoone is rising to reflect its improved niche as screens offense has become a bigger archetype in the metagame. It now has access to the support necessary to provide it more reliable setup, allowing Linoone to tap into its offensive potency more than ever before.
  • Goodra is further rising thanks to the legitimate threat it can pose with its Choice Specs set, offering the tier’s strongest Draco Meteor and excellent coverage. This alongside its strong defensive matchups against Pokemon like Roserade, Celebi, and Ninetales gives it a solid niche in the tier despite its competition.
  • Galarian Stunfisk faces pretty stiff competition but carves a rankworthy niche thanks to its typing and better special bulk than Steelix. It counters Toxtricity in addition to matching up well against other wallbreakers like Heliolisk and Gardevoir. It can also thwart opposing defoggers with Yawn, though its lack of Toxic and general passiveness does hold it back a fair amount.
  • Rotom-W struggles to make progress at times considering how prominent Roserade and Celebi are, while other Electric- and Water-types also give it fair competition on account of its occasionally middling damage output or bulk depending on its set. It’s still great, but this generation is more naturally kept in check to the extent that dropping from A+ is warranted.
  • Chandelure can still be nasty in the right matchup but struggles considerably to combat Incineroar’s utter dominance and Gigalith’s steady usage. It also suffers greater opportunity cost with Darmanitan and Incineroar proving worthwhile options as offensive Fire-types.
  • Milotic’s traits aren’t as well suited for the offensively inclined metagame while it also struggles with the presences of Roserade, Celebi, Toxtricity, and Rotom-W. It’s grown a more awkward fit but can still provide a key answer to several threats, justifying only a small drop.
  • Galarian Weezing has dropped off a bit as the drops of Sylveon and Darmanitan have eaten into its niche and several Pokemon capable of overwhelming it have surged, including Roserade, Celebi, and Toxtricity. It still provides a good offensive presence but can’t apply its typing as easily anymore.
  • Mantine lost some usability after Mamoswine left, though it has also been hurt by the prominence of several powerful Electric-types, its struggles fitting on various popular archetypes, and the bevy of other available waters, which is best reflected with a drop.
  • Between failing to check most Water-types too reliably and inviting in several premier threats, Rotom-C runs into a lot of awkward shortcomings right now. This is further compounded by its increasing competition with several rising Electric- and Grass-types, which is grounds for a drop from the A ranks.
  • Umbreon’s drop is reflective of its significantly decreased place in the tier as Sylveon, Cobalion, and Incineroar have all eaten into its usability. It still offers some useful utility with Wish and checking Necrozma, but is a much harder fit with greater overall opportunity cost.
  • Polteageist is increasingly harder to utilize with at least one of Incineroar or Pangoro featured on several teams and Doublade picking back up. It’s still a severe late-game threat that can really ravage an unprepared team, but often requires fair support and is better reflected in B as such.
  • Vaporeon suffers pretty massive competition in its various roles between Rotom-W and Sylveon recently becoming staples and Gastrodon steadily rising as a solid bulky Water-type. Its role compression can come in handy but it has generally grown more situational overall.
  • Indeedee and Sigilyph are becoming increasingly niche Psychic-type picks and are dropping as a result. Indeedee struggles in a supportive role with screens setters giving it heavy competition and its main teammate in Polteageist falling off, while Sigilyph’s inconsistent damage output makes it an often inferior option over Reuniclus or Necrozma.
  • Drapion’s two-subrank drop is reflective of the big drop in utility it’s suffered over the past couple months. Several top tier Pokemon, including Cobalion and Sylveon, can prey on its awkward typing while it struggles to provide the same utility or consistency as Incineroar or Pangoro, who check wider varieties of Pokemon.
  • Torkoal took a bit of a nosedive after its best partner in Venusaur left, as generally Ninetales makes for a better option on semi-sun cores with Shiftry. Full sun still has its uses with Darmanitan in the tier but has grown more situational as a whole, justifying a rather large drop for its main setter.
  • Avalugg doesn’t really provide much aside from checking Haxorus and Flygon and is still an incredibly awkward Pokemon to fit in most situations. Its niche has grown even more circumstantial with Mamoswine gone and the surges of several Pokemon that overwhelm it.
  • Slurpuff’s main niche exists on screens, though it still requires fairly immense support due to its inability to reliably power through prominent Steel-types in Escavalier, Doublade, and Bronzong. While plenty potent, it just isn’t consistent enough on its own.
  • Virizion hasn’t really solidified an identity in the tier due to the massive competition it suffers from other Fighting-types as well as its poor matchups against the likes of Noivern, Celebi, and Doublade, justifying a drop to represent its iffy reliability.
  • Braviary lacks a solidified offensive niche and is dropping two subranks to show its general lack of relevance. It has a fairly poor offensive matchup and its typing and tools just don’t have much current applicability.
  • Galarian Corsola and Pyukumuku are both dropping from C+ due to their extremely limited applicability. Both are extremely passive and usually only fit on very specific team compositions, and thus are better reflected as niche options in C.
  • Frosmoth and Rotom-F’s niches have further diminished recently, between Frosmoth’s disdain for majority of the metagame’s top threats and Rotom-F’s severe competition as an Electric-type, though both still see sparing usage on account of their unique traits still having some applicability, justifying a drop to C- but not a full unranking.
  • Alcremie and Charizard are too outperformed to justify usage in the current metagame. Calm Mind Alcremie is too easy to overwhelm and lacks a niche with Sylveon in the tier. Charizard’s defensive perks are overshadowed by the several more beneficial niches presented by Arcanine and Incineroar.
  • Aromatisse has virtually no niche with Sylveon in the tier, Morpeko’s poor damage output and utter lack of defensive utility makes it an inferior option, and Rillaboom doesn’t provide enough over Tsareena to justify usage, rationalizing drops from the ranks as a whole.
Our discussion slate will be covered in the next post. Thanks for reading!
 
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Hilomilo

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Moderator
Discussion Points
Where to rank Ditto: The ranking team decided that not enough time had been given for Ditto to have a decisive rank, since it’s still relatively new and is a rather unconventional Pokemon. While it hasn’t seen any relevant usage just yet, it does offer a reliable revenge killer with a strong matchup against the tier’s bevy of setup sweepers, which may be worth something.

Incineroar A+ -> S: Incineroar has developed into one of UU’s most dominant forces. Intimidate, STAB Knock Off without Z-moves or Megas, pivoting, and its customizability between both SD and bulky sets have all been huge in allowing it to become one of the most dominant and splashable presences around, performing at a top level of consistency. Whether its overall utility and applicability is worth sitting at the top of the ranks is worth more in depth discussion.

Celebi A -> A+: Celebi has shined in UUPL with the particular strength of its 3 attacks set really being brought to light. It combines several amazing traits between its great bulk, Speed, and offensive prowess and has proven to be one of the most customizable and threatening Pokemon available, though it also struggles to fully combat various defensive Pokemon, like Incineroar and particularly Bronzong.

Escavalier A- -> A: Escav’s amazing role compression has made it more valuable than ever, especially as more physically defensive investment has become standard to reliably combat Haxorus and Necrozma. Whether its overall utility is worth representing with placement alongside other Steel-types in Bronzong and Doublade is worth looking into.

Golisopod A- -> B+: Golisopod is being brought up for a drop on account of being less splashable following Mamoswine’s ban and obviously disliking Rotom-W’s fair presence in the meta. First Impression is still a fantastic tool, however, especially as several setup sweepers grow more prominent, while Golisopod can still check Pokemon like Flygon and Doublade with its typing.

Espeon B+ -> B: Espeon is often a rather controversial topic in the thread, and is mainly in the discussion for dropping due to the competition it faces as a screens setter from Xatu, which can provide pivoting with Teleport and better bulk. Espeon has more niches outside of screens with sets like specs and scarf, but generally faces heavy competition in those roles as well.

Copperajah B -> B+/A-: Recent exposure has been a huge blessing for Copperajah, allowing it to showcase its true niche as a solid hazard setter with great combined offensive/defensive perks. It has a ton of value with several Fairy- and Grass-types surging, and could be worth rising even further due to its strengths being much clearer than previously, though it still does compete with several other Pokemon as a Steel-type.

Xatu B- -> B: Although it dropped in the last update, Xatu has seen a bit of a resurgence as a screens setter that can excellently support its teammates thanks to Teleport. Due to the popularity of the build its niche exists on, it could be worth rising, though it also competes with the faster and far more powerful Espeon.
 
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Ausma

Bonafide Monafide!
is a Pre-Contributor
My unasked takes on the discussion points

Where to rank Ditto:
B rank (to start)


It's without a doubt that Ditto... is supremely weird. Ditto, as we've learned from the Dynamax era, is a Pokemon whose viability is largely determined by the metagame around it, as it pretty much becomes the threats as merit of Imposter. Though, with Screens offense being such a big thing at this current time, I wouldn't necessarily consider it a behemoth when screens are somewhat of a remedy against its onslaught. If I were to be the judge, I'd say Ditto starting out at a B ranking seems fitting given how it capitalizes well on the offensive archetypes of the meta, but detests going against screens offense, which seems to be the most widespread way of running offense at the moment. Though, when you have things like Haxorus and boosting moves up the wazoo, it's without question it still has some merit in the metagame.

Incineroar A+ -> S:
Disagree


As much as I love Incineroar, I'm unsure if I agree with this notion. While without a doubt Incineroar is one of the tier's most splashable pivots and premier offensive threats, its reliance on HDB in order to not be worn down is a huge detriment, as it loses the additional versatility allotted by running other items. Unlike Noivern though, which also normally runs HDB, its speed is an issue, and it lacks reliable recovery, meaning that HDB become even more of a necessity, and longevity can be an issue without Wish support.

Celebi A -> A+:
Agree


I actually do agree with this, on the other hand. While it does face some issue from the tier's best defensive mons, I actually disagree with Incineroar entirely walling it, as I've found solid success running Earth Power and Aura Sphere to nail it after NP boosts. Though, it has a crippling weakness to First Impressions that rock the tier. All of this being said, Its flexibility, options, and splashability are a godsend, and I am by no means opposed to raising Celebi.

Escavalier A- -> A:
Abstain

Escavalier is weird as well, however, in a metagame where Haxorus is running the show, Escavalier has a pretty effective niche. Though, the fact that Haxorus alone is a huge reason for its rise in use is kind of a testament to the fact Haxorus is stupid. I might hold off on this personally, but I don't necessarily disagree with it by any means.

Golisopod A- -> B+:
Unsure, leaning toward Disagree


I absolutely love the pod, though, I'm not entirely sure about how I feel with the idea of it dropping, but I can't really say I entirely can see it staying in A-? Though, I actually am leaning more toward keeping it in A-. Rocking STAB First Impressions is an insanely good attribute in the meta, and although more things are running Protect, it has great counter-techs in the form of Spikes and SD to punish attempts at soaking its move. I think that it having Spikes with First Impression is what really makes it for me, and the utility that Emergency Exit can provide after a priority move can be an insane tool on Balance to combat offense squads and gaining momentum thanks to its surprising bulk.

Espeon B+ -> B:
Agreed


Agreed. Espeon has just been mediocre as of late, and the prevalence of Incineroar has made it kind of wholly underwhelming to me as a screens setter. I just find Xatu to be more consistent thanks to its recovery and ability to safely switch to an abuser.

Copperajah B -> B+/A-:
Mostly Agreed

You go, big elephant man! I do believe that Escavalier outclasses it by a noticeable margin as a Steel type in this current meta, but big elephant has Rocks and some surprising coverage to bat, so I can see it rising to B+. But, A- might be a bit of a stretch.

B- --> B

I really feel this thing definitely deserves some kind of a rise, likely to B. Although Espeon is more consistent on the offensive end of things, Xatu getting immediate recovery, a Ground immunity, a quad Fighting resistance, workable immediate bulk, and a pivoting option just makes it a superior screens setter from my experience. Though, it is fairly one dimensional, and Incineroar greatly exploits it, so B+ might not be in its scope.
 
Hi, a nomination:

Sylveon to S:

I'm honestly surprised this was not brought up in the discussion slate. Both Specs and Wish Sylveon are absolutely S-tier threats. Specs has very few switch-ins being AV Reuniclus, Copperajah, Bronzong and Escavalier as fairly reliable switch-ins with Gigalith and Roserade coming in once or twice. Most of these lack reliable recovery (or in Reuniclus's case is vulnerable to chip with no recover or magic guard) while the others get hit hard by Psyshock/Mystical Fire, so one right read with your coverage moves means that you can click Hyper Voice for free next time. Not to mention that specs has a fairly easy time coming in on stuff like Noivern, CB Haxorus not locked into EQ/PJ, Rotom-W, or Umbreon (or just getting it in with an aggressive double).

Wish Sylveon is a staple on the new Escavalier+Gigalith+Rotom-W style balance teams that are showing up due to its ability to check CB Pangoro and provide wishes/status support. These teams would be significantly worse using any other cleric since they fold easier to Haxorus or let in Pangoro for free. Even Wish Sylveon with Mystical Fire is a nice pick on BO to weaken Roserade and Escavalier. I have even seen a bunch of Calm Mind variants (sub CM 2 attacks with pixie plate, CM with rest+snore) on screens or on BO as a late-game win-con. The fact that Sylveon is almost mandatory on balance, functions well on BO as a support mon or wallbreaker, and even has its own niche on HO shows its versatility and usefulness on most teams. This is why I think it should be ranked S. I will post my thoughts on the discussion slate when I have time. Thank you for reading.
 
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Adaam

Light Machoke
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis the 8th Grand Slam Winner
Incineroar has definitely cemented itself as a top 2 Pokemon and worthy of S. I even agree with Tony and think it's the best mon in the tier. It could run just two moves in Knock Off + pivot move and still put in a work every game. It makes progress every game and is stupid hard to wear down without trading something in the process. People are also mixing in offensive SD sets to prevent things like Pangoro from taking advantage of it. It definitely deserves S.

I would also argue for Cobalion to be placed in S. It's laughable how few counters we have to it this gen (just Doublade). Noivern being on every team is annoying for it, but it has enough tools in its arsenal to circumvent it. Twave, Stone Edge, and even Occa Berry have all been used to muscle past it and sweep a team. Cobalion also has the unique trait of being the only Pokemon in the tier to dissuade Incineroar's Knock Off. Iron Head being the most annoying move ever also gives it the ability to cheese through checks like Celebi and Reuniclus after a SD boost.

Sylveon was overhyped at the beginning and I don't think is S worthy at all. We have more than adapted to its presence with Roserade, Bronzong, Heavy Slam Gigalith, the rise of Jah and Escav, and even nicher things like Salazzle. Walling Noivern is fantastic, but it does not check half the tier like Noivern, threaten to sweep every team like Cobalion, or provide raw utility like Incineroar to be on their levels. Also people like crippling themselves and run Mystical Fire over Heal Bell which makes it even easier to deal with lmao just click Toxic :afrostar:
 
ok here to nom something :
:bw/sneasel: UR -> C- / C
ok now thats every single offensive ice mons have been banned (not you frostmoth you are horseshit), sneasel has an unique niche in the actual metagame. this mon has a great speed tier, a great offensive typing and access to low kick to hit cobalion / incin. his access to ice shard prevent flygon and noivern to rk it, which r common revenge killers. It can abuse the hyper voice sylveon to set up thanks to throat chop.You get my point : sneasel is a cool anti meta pick which can muscle through its common counters and i do think that it serves an unique niche and its viable.
Though, it suffers from :
1. A bad ATK : 95 isnt enough so you are forced to run either SD or Band on if u want to actually claim mons and will fail to get some kills even with +2.
2. An awful defensive typing and bad defensive stats (55 / 55 / 75). It will struggle to come in without voltturn and to set-up.
3. A 4MSS : u want SD, throat chop, knock off, ice shard, brick break, icicle crash.
Thats why i thought it should only be C- / C (its arguably better than most C- mons)

+2 252 Atk Sneasel Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Cobalion: 338-398 (104.6 - 123.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Sneasel Low Kick (80 BP) vs. 248 HP / 108 Def Incineroar: 272-322 (69.2 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Sneasel Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 212 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 240-284 (76.9 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 212 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 182-216 (58.3 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Cobalion: 252-298 (78 - 92.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Haxorus: 174-206 (59.3 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Gigalith: 250-296 (66.8 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pangoro: 324-382 (97.8 - 115.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

jah rising : B+ but A- is relly pushing it
goli : hell no goli is way better than every single other B+ mons stop
espeon : espeon sucks
incin : hell yes its so good right now i still dk why its not S
 
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vivalospride

push his ass in a wishin well and wished him well
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Nomming Haunter from UR -> C-/C

(click screenshot for team)

Not trying to present this record like it's something super impressive or like it single handedly proves Haunter is worthy of being ranked, but to show that I have some sort of experience with this mon. This mon had potential to break almost every game and was pretty consistent, it's damage output wasn't nearly as depressing as I thought it'd be either, 2HKOing a good portion of mons that tried coming in on it.

I think this mon is extremely niche and pretty much only usable on hazards HO, for me I was building and I wanted a better way of punishing something for clicking EQ, a better way of punishing Sylveon, and a spinblocker woulda been cool but the tier has so few spinners, who rlly cares much. Amane Misa first presented this mon as something that's usable a little bit back and when I saw Haunter chillin in the teambuilder's list of mons by tier and remembered that I decided I was down to try it out.

It's dmg output is respectable as I said, does the dmg it needs to do with lo and in bad mus it's like the ideal mon to throw out there as a potential sack or emergency button w/ it's frail ass ghost body + dbond.
252 SpA Life Orb Haunter Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-Wash: 175-208 (57.7 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Haunter Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Cobalion: 204-242 (63.1 - 74.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Haunter Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Toxtricity: 208-246 (71.4 - 84.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Haunter Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 68+ SpD Incineroar: 172-203 (43.7 - 51.6%) -- 6.3% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Haunter Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 296-351 (75.1 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 SpA Life Orb Haunter Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 198-237 (50.2 - 60.1%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Haunter Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Roserade: 177-211 (67.8 - 80.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


This mon will pretty much only work on some sort of hazard stacking HO, I've been p critical of webs all gen but I'm happy with this draft vs a ton of others bar the one I used vs gxe in uupl, but that had a mamo and the progress pig is gone. I encourage ppl to try it out, especially bumass Hilomilo.

Everything I said only proves it's incredibly niche and honestly whether it's in C-/C or is unranked doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things whatsoever, but with this tier the way it is and how Noiv BO is and has been the norm for so long now, I want us to keep exploring the possibilities as much as the tier allows us.

I unfortunately don't have logs of my opponents complaining about how broken Haunter is like I did with my vileplume nom like 2 1/2 yrs ago, but I do have Christopher fuckin Wanka's word that this mon is usable.
 
Thought I'd bring up some things that interest me.




Sylveon A+ ---> S Disagree

Sylveon is a pretty good mon in the current metagame, but I just don't think that it's an S tier mon. To me, an S tier mon is a mon that practically defines the metagame. Maybe it's the problem of SS UU not having any meta defining mons, but I feel like ranking sylveon S tier because there literally is no mon that fits that description is kinda a dumb idea. Atleast with noivern I can kinda see it since it's so flexible, which is one of the best traits a pokemon can have. But sylveon is kinda easy to read, you pretty much know which set it's gonna be at team preview based on what team style your opponent is using. I'm not saying that sylveon isn't flexible, I'm just saying that it's not flexible enough. That's kinda my problem with sylveon being S ranked, it's not good enough at anything to be considered meta defining, it's just a really good pokemon.




Haunter UR ---> C-/C Agree

Haunter is a pretty cool mon, after using it in an HO team I made I have to say that it's a pretty decent spinblocker with a decent amount of firepower behind it. I'm not gonna say much else, since I'd just be mirroring the post above, but I've gotta say that this thing is flexible as all hell. It obviously has alot of problems, but it's niche is still relevant enough to make it an easy C tier mon.




Golisopod A- ---> B+ Disagree

This mon is way too good to be ranked with shit like mantine and inteleon. It has so many things going for it in the current metagame that I honestly can't understand this nomination.

Ok, bias aside I really don't think that Pod is starting to get less relevant. The thing about pod is that it's kinda gotten better since alot of the mons it can revenge kill effectively have stopped using protect, which is of great help since it was previously just got screwed over by half the mons it was supposed to check. It still has alot of flexibility, being one of the two actually good spikers in the tier is huge (coalossal is bad don't @ me), and with the insane coverage it's stabs give it, plus some really nice utility in emergency exit, I really don't think that this is a B+ mon.





Xatu and Espeon

Grouping these two together because I'm lazy they both do similar things, just one being more defensive while the other is more offensive. Screens HO is pretty good, which is why I'd personally keep Espeon in B+ and bump Xatu up to B.

My reason for wanting espeon to stay in B+ is because of that it's actually not as bad at being an offensive mon as people think. It's speed stat being the main boon, with a base 110* it pretty much outruns the entire non scarf metagame, which makes it an effective screens setter or if you wanna use it offensively as say a scarfer, a revenge killer. Which is the other thing, it's scarf set outruns almost all of the metagame (I think there's like 1 mon that beats it but don't quote me on that), even alot of the +1, some +2 mons and most scarfers get outrun by it.

EDIT: Turns out I'm a dumb idiot and messed up Espeon's speed stat. Not that it matters, it still outruns most of the tier with a scarf but just thought that I'd mention it.


+1 Haxorus
+2 Blastoise
+2 Barbaracle
+2 Poulteagast
Literally every scarfer in the tier aside from Noivern (, Dugtrio and Ribombee but those are less common sets).
Every non scarfer in the tier.

As for Xatu, my rise pretty much comes from bulk + amazing supporting movepool. Twave, wisp, teleport, defog, trick, roost, just go look at this things movepool, it's insane. Instant recovery makes it pretty reliable screen setter since you have that safety net if anything goes wrong and your screener goes to low health. It's not really that the metagame has changed to make it better, I just think that people are using this thing enough for it to be seen as a bigger threat than it was before.

Now don't get me wrong, both of these mons have a bunch of flaws that aren't easy to overcome, but the possible pros are still good enough for me to want them to get these rankings.




Escavalier A- ---> A Debatable

Aight so since haxorus was banned get clowned me I'm just gonna rewrite this because I think that haxorus was a pretty big reason for why this was such a good mon. Now that Keldeo and Pelipper are coming down to UU I think this thing's gonna have a harder time justifying A. I still think that it has alot of pluses and that it is one of the scariest mons to face in the metagame, but I'm not 100% sure it's A at the moment.




Ditto ????

Since I forgot to add the mon that I wanted to write about the most to my opinion piece I'll just add it late because double posting is a crime I'd rather not double post.

Ditto is a very weird mon, in that I really have no idea where to place it. It was extremely inconsistent when I used it, often it did nothing, especially against most screens HO teams, but against more BO-like teams it did perform pretty decently. I think it has a good matchup against most of the metagame if played properly, it's just that it's so hard to get the maximum value out of the mon unless you have a favourable matchup that I honestly don't know where to place it. I think that any of the B tiers would be a good start for it and that it can rise or drop depending on how the metagame evolves.



That's pretty much it, I either disagree with or can't talk about the rankings of the rest because I have no experience using the mon. Ok well I am against any more mons going S cuz, like sylveon they're really good, but not meta defining. I'd just rather not talk about them because I really don't think I have much to say aside from the obvious and that cav part was pretty boring ngl.

OH and also drop this thing off a cliff



Avalugg C+ ---> C/C-

With Haxorus gone I really don't see any reason to use this thing. It certainly does have a niche on stall, but with stall not really being the best it's ever been, haxorus getting booted out of the tier and Pelipper and Keldeo joining I really don't think table will be very good. I think C is more realistic, since on paper it still has a good movepool + a great defence stat, but I really don't think it will be that great in practice
 
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Hi everyone, this long post will be both a nomination as well as an in-depth overview of my time using Rillaboom:


Rillaboom to B:

The Nomination

Rillaboom @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Superpower
- Knock Off
- U-turn

I have been experimenting with Rillaboom ever since it got Grassy Surge and I have found that it has worked great on bulky offence. It combines both the amazing benefits of Grassy Surge (which I will get into later) for teammates and provides speed control with a scarf (in a tier with barely any viable scarfers -- no, Flygon and especially Scarf Flygon sucks), while having a huge amount of utility with its coverage (Superpower, Knock Off, U-Turn). Under Grassy Terrain, it can threaten to revenge kill a ton of Pokemon like Heliolisk, Keldeo, Flygon, and Gardevoir with Wood Hammer and can even 2HKO frailer resists like Toxtricity due to how strong it is. The biggest problem with using Rillaboom over another grass type like Celebi or Roserade is the fact that you can't always hard switch it into bulky waters like Milotic due to the risk of a scald burn. But this honestly isn't that big of a deal if you can bring it in on a recover for example (or just pair it with secondary water resists, which I will get to). The fact that Rillaboom is a revenge killer in a tier lacking in poweful revenge killers (it doesn't hit like a wet noodle; i.e., Flygon) and has good coverage (Knock Off, Superpower) to weaken Weezing and Noivern as well as 2HKO both Cobalion and Incineroar is great on its own. But Grassy Surge is incredibly useful for many teammates. A combination of its role as a decent revenge killer with good coverage and the usefulness/team support of Grassy Terrain it brings is why I believe it deserves to be ranked to at least B. I personally think that it should be ranked even higher at B+, but I'd rather be conservative with a Pokemon that is unexplored. Below I'll go into some details on some partners and how they benefit from Rillaboom's presence.


Partners for Rillaboom

Here I will outline some partners and cores that have worked well with Rillaboom (particularly under Grassy Terrain).

1. AV Copperajah

Copperajah @ Assault Vest
Ability: Heavy Metal
EVs: 164 Atk / 204 SpD / 140 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Heat Crash
- Power Whip
- High Horsepower

AV Copperajah greatly benefits from Grassy Terrain. It helps Raj negate chip damage (particularly from spikes set by Roserade as it comes in) which is obviously important on a Pokemon without any recovery, allowing you to come in on Toxtricity, Sylveon, and other special attackers more often. The terrain boost allows Power Whip to cleanly OHKO Rhyperior, Keldeo (assuming you catch it as it comes in), Rotom-W (after stealth rocks -- not if it's 252 defense bold). You can run max attack to guarantee an OHKO on Milotic and Gigalith, but I personally dislike cutting into its ability to check Toxtricity, Sylveon, and other special attackers. I run a ton of speed so that I don't get outsped by Rhyperior as well. The obvious drawback is the fact that you need to run High Horsepower instead of Earthquake, but the whole point of a ground move on Copperajah is to chip Incineroar as it comes in, which High Horsepower can still do.

2. Specs Sylveon

Sylveon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Mystical Fire
- Hyper Beam

Specs Sylveon is an amazing partner since Rillaboom lures in Pokemon like Noivern that it can just pivot out on for Sylveon to abuse. Grassy Terrain is amazing to provide passive recovery, allowing Sylveon to check Noivern more consistently and letting it fire off Hyper Voice more often. Both mons work together to heavily pressure Weezing, Bronzong, Doublade, and Escavalier (Rillaboom can knock off the Doublade or Escavalier and eventually bring them in range of being 2HKOd by Hyper Voice, and Weezing is cleanly 2HKOd by Hyper Voice if they bring it in expecting to check standard wish Sylveon). I like using Hyper Beam over Shadow Ball since it allows you to OHKO offensive Weezing, OHKO Milotic after rocks, and OHKO pivot Incineroar after some chip, and Mystical Fire already 2HKOs Doublade while Hyper Voice 2HKOs Chandelure (and let's be real, you'll probably be using Incineroar to check Chandelure anyways).

3. Pivot Incineroar

Incineroar @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Knock Off
- Toxic
- Parting Shot

Pivot Incineroar was the first Pokemon that came to mind when putting Rillaboom on bulky offence. Both Pokemon form a momentum core and have fantastic synergy. Incineroar greatly benefits from the Grassy Terrain recovery and Rillaboom's ability to check Rhyperior, Rotom-W and other bulky waters (even if you can't always hard switch into them due to Scald). Incineroar helps Rillaboom by checking Escavalier, Chandelure and other fire types, knocking off Weezing, and luring in bulky waters to parting shot off of to bring Rillaboom in for free. Since practically every bulky offence should use Incineroar in my opinion, it's a natural partner for Rillaboom. I like running Sassy to always underspeed and get the slower Parting Shot off against opposing Incineroar.

4. Other BO Partners:


Rocks Necrozma is a good partner that can weaken Incineroar for Rillaboom as well as check Weezing, while benefiting from Grassy Terrain healing (so it can more easily run a boosting item; i.e. expert belt to 2HKO Incineroar and Rhyperior with Earth Power).

1591317515831.png

Standard pivot Rotom-W provides a secondary water check and scald switch-in, and obviously creates a momentum core with Rillaboom. I like using T-Wave on Rotom to cripple stuff like Cobalion and Noivern and prefer a slow physically defensive spread to always get the slower Volt Switch when facing another Rotom-W.

5. Example Core

+
1591317702227.png
+
1591317713356.png


Super standard and basic F/W/G core with pivot Incineroar and Rotom-W. Pair this with a wallbreaker or two (I.e., Specs Sylveon) and a rocker at least, and go from there.


A Team, Testing/Results and Replays:

Here I will showcase a team, some replays, and some results using Rillaboom.

Example Team:

1591317860062.png
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1591317909212.png
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1591317924145.png
/
1591317933132.png
/
1591317942041.png
/
1591317975408.png

Rillaboom @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Superpower
- Knock Off
- U-turn

Incineroar @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Knock Off
- Toxic
- Parting Shot

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Thunder Wave
- Defog

Necrozma @ Expert Belt
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Photon Geyser
- Earth Power
- Heat Wave
- Stealth Rock

Copperajah @ Assault Vest
Ability: Heavy Metal
EVs: 164 Atk / 204 SpD / 140 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Heat Crash
- Power Whip
- High Horsepower

Sylveon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 16 HP / 252 SpA / 240 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Mystical Fire
- Hyper Beam


Since this post is insanely long I won't get into this team, but I will say that this team has been effective so far.

Results and Testing Process:

I wanted to play 30 games before judging Rillaboom (kinda like simulating what a suspect ladder run would look like) , and I used the alt OK RillaB0omer (sadly OK Rillaboomer was taken). I understand that this isn't really too high on the ladder, but I wanted to test Rillaboom from scratch rather than using an existing high ladder alt. I'll likely do that in the next couple of days.

ok boomer.png

Replays:


I understand that this post is insanely long, but I really wanted to go into as much detail as possible about my experience trying and enjoying Rillaboom. I hope you guys give it a try and that this post was helpful to those looking to use it. Thanks for reading :heart:
 
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Jellicent B -> B+
Jellicent hard counters Keldeo, while it's water/ghost typing means it can act as a spinblocker while making it a consistent counter to Cobalion's who run Stone Edge. Unlike Mantine Jellicent does not need heavy duty boots to avoid significant damage from rocks, and can actually afford being knocked off by things it's meant to counter like Golisopod. Jellicent can also check Machamp, one of the hardest pokemon in the tier to deal with defensively, by running a colbur berry. Jellicent also can use taunt+wisp+hex to destroy passive pokemon, opposing water types such as its rival Mantine, Gastrodon, and Vaporeon are shut down by jellicent. Jellicent effectively outclasses Mantine in nearly every way defensively, Mantine only has the niche of checking some Chandy sets, checking NP Lucario and defogging. Strength Sap also has utility for jellicent, helping it 1v1 physical attackers much more easily, although recover is more consistent.
 
Hi everyone, this long post will be both a nomination as well as an in-depth overview of my time using Rillaboom:


Rillaboom to B:

The Nomination

Rillaboom @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Superpower
- Knock Off
- U-turn

I have been experimenting with Rillaboom ever since it got Grassy Surge and I have found that it has worked great on bulky offence. It combines both the amazing benefits of Grassy Surge (which I will get into later) for teammates and provides speed control with a scarf (in a tier with barely any viable scarfers -- no, Flygon and especially Scarf Flygon sucks), while having a huge amount of utility with its coverage (Superpower, Knock Off, U-Turn). Under Grassy Terrain, it can threaten to revenge kill a ton of Pokemon like Heliolisk, Keldeo, Flygon, and Gardevoir with Wood Hammer and can even 2HKO frailer resists like Toxtricity due to how strong it is. The biggest problem with using Rillaboom over another grass type like Celebi or Roserade is the fact that you can't always hard switch it into bulky waters like Milotic due to the risk of a scald burn. But this honestly isn't that big of a deal if you can bring it in on a recover for example (or just pair it with secondary water resists, which I will get to). The fact that Rillaboom is a revenge killer in a tier lacking in poweful revenge killers (it doesn't hit like a wet noodle; i.e., Flygon) and has good coverage (Knock Off, Superpower) to weaken Weezing and Noivern as well as 2HKO both Cobalion and Incineroar is great on its own. But Grassy Surge is incredibly useful for many teammates. A combination of its role as a decent revenge killer with good coverage and the usefulness/team support of Grassy Terrain it brings is why I believe it deserves to be ranked to at least B. I personally think that it should be ranked even higher at B+, but I'd rather be conservative with a Pokemon that is unexplored. Below I'll go into some details on some partners and how they benefit from Rillaboom's presence.


Partners for Rillaboom

Here I will outline some partners and cores that have worked well with Rillaboom (particularly under Grassy Terrain).

1. AV Copperajah

Copperajah @ Assault Vest
Ability: Heavy Metal
EVs: 164 Atk / 204 SpD / 140 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Heat Crash
- Power Whip
- High Horsepower

AV Copperajah greatly benefits from Grassy Terrain. It helps Raj negate chip damage (particularly from spikes set by Roserade as it comes in) which is obviously important on a Pokemon without any recovery, allowing you to come in on Toxtricity, Sylveon, and other special attackers more often. The terrain boost allows Power Whip to cleanly OHKO Rhyperior, Keldeo (assuming you catch it as it comes in), Rotom-W (after stealth rocks -- not if it's 252 defense bold). You can run max attack to guarantee an OHKO on Milotic and Gigalith, but I personally dislike cutting into its ability to check Toxtricity, Sylveon, and other special attackers. I run a ton of speed so that I don't get outsped by Rhyperior as well. The obvious drawback is the fact that you need to run High Horsepower instead of Earthquake, but the whole point of a ground move on Copperajah is to chip Incineroar as it comes in, which High Horsepower can still do.

2. Specs Sylveon

Sylveon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Mystical Fire
- Hyper Beam

Specs Sylveon is an amazing partner since Rillaboom lures in Pokemon like Noivern that it can just pivot out on for Sylveon to abuse. Grassy Terrain is amazing to provide passive recovery, allowing Sylveon to check Noivern more consistently and letting it fire off Hyper Voice more often. Both mons work together to heavily pressure Weezing, Bronzong, Doublade, and Escavalier (Rillaboom can knock off the Doublade or Escavalier and eventually bring them in range of being 2HKOd by Hyper Voice, and Weezing is cleanly 2HKOd by Hyper Voice if they bring it in expecting to check standard wish Sylveon). I like using Hyper Beam over Shadow Ball since it allows you to OHKO offensive Weezing, OHKO Milotic after rocks, and OHKO pivot Incineroar after some chip, and Mystical Fire already 2HKOs Doublade while Hyper Voice 2HKOs Chandelure (and let's be real, you'll probably be using Incineroar to check Chandelure anyways).

3. Pivot Incineroar

Incineroar @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Knock Off
- Toxic
- Parting Shot

Pivot Incineroar was the first Pokemon that came to mind when putting Rillaboom on bulky offence. Both Pokemon form a momentum core and have fantastic synergy. Incineroar greatly benefits from the Grassy Terrain recovery and Rillaboom's ability to check Rhyperior, Rotom-W and other bulky waters (even if you can't always hard switch into them due to Scald). Incineroar helps Rillaboom by checking Escavalier, Chandelure and other fire types, knocking off Weezing, and luring in bulky waters to parting shot off of to bring Rillaboom in for free. Since practically every bulky offence should use Incineroar in my opinion, it's a natural partner for Rillaboom. I like running Sassy to always underspeed and get the slower Parting Shot off against opposing Incineroar.

4. Other BO Partners:


Rocks Necrozma is a good partner that can weaken Incineroar for Rillaboom as well as check Weezing, while benefiting from Grassy Terrain healing (so it can more easily run a boosting item; i.e. expert belt to 2HKO Incineroar and Rhyperior with Earth Power).

View attachment 252037
Standard pivot Rotom-W provides a secondary water check and scald switch-in, and obviously creates a momentum core with Rillaboom. I like using T-Wave on Rotom to cripple stuff like Cobalion and Noivern and prefer a slow physically defensive spread to always get the slower Volt Switch when facing another Rotom-W.

5. Example Core

+View attachment 252038+View attachment 252039

Super standard and basic F/W/G core with pivot Incineroar and Rotom-W. Pair this with a wallbreaker or two (I.e., Specs Sylveon) and a rocker at least, and go from there.


A Team, Testing/Results and Replays:

Here I will showcase a team, some replays, and some results using Rillaboom.

Example Team:

View attachment 252040 / View attachment 252041 / View attachment 252042 / View attachment 252043 / View attachment 252044 / View attachment 252045
Rillaboom @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Superpower
- Knock Off
- U-turn

Incineroar @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Knock Off
- Toxic
- Parting Shot

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Thunder Wave
- Defog

Necrozma @ Expert Belt
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Photon Geyser
- Earth Power
- Heat Wave
- Stealth Rock

Copperajah @ Assault Vest
Ability: Heavy Metal
EVs: 164 Atk / 204 SpD / 140 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Heat Crash
- Power Whip
- High Horsepower

Sylveon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 16 HP / 252 SpA / 240 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Mystical Fire
- Hyper Beam


Since this post is insanely long I won't get into this team, but I will say that this team has been effective so far.

Results and Testing Process:

I wanted to play 30 games before judging Rillaboom (kinda like simulating what a suspect ladder run would look like) , and I used the alt OK RillaB0omer (sadly OK Rillaboomer was taken). I understand that this isn't really too high on the ladder, but I wanted to test Rillaboom from scratch rather than using an existing high ladder alt. I'll likely do that in the next couple of days.

View attachment 252048

Replays:


I understand that this post is insanely long, but I really wanted to go into as much detail as possible about my experience trying and enjoying Rillaboom. I hope you guys give it a try and that this post was helpful to those looking to use it. Thanks for reading :heart:
Fantastic post. Even with all this, I still believe you're underselling Rillaboom.
It's essentially Tapu Bulu, an A ranked Pokemon in USUM OU, but faster, has knock off, and most importantly U-turn, although is slightly weaker and is very slightly frailer.
That U-turn makes it unquestionably the best terrain setter in the game so far, not including it's far better damage output with Wood Hammer and 125 Atk, the arguably better effects Grassy Terrain provides, the versatility with it's movepool (it can go Band, Scarf, Swords Dance, Sub Seed, AV, and Life Orb), and how well it pairs up with other Pokemon. It's like how Pelipper blew Politoad out of the water, just by simply having U-turn and a way to deal with the opponent's water checks.
It can be put on HO, Offense, BO, Balance, and Fat Balance relatively easily thanks to the excellent utility provides and you can customize it. Everyone appreciates free leftovers and reduced damage on Earthquake, especially when it's so much easier than Bulu with that extra 10 base speed and U-turn. Just U-turn into the appropriate check on your team, which can be expanded on now that you have Grassy Terrain up. Healing 1/16th health with Assault Vest or 1/8th health with Leftovers make make a huge difference in life or death of your teammates. Got Doublade? Well now not only do you still have Eviolite, but you also have a free leftovers for a few turns and Earthquake is effectively Neutral to you. The only downside is that your opponent's grounded Pokemon also benefit from Grassy Terrain, which really is saying a lot about how good Grassy Terrain is.

I actually find myself using Rillaboom a lot on Offensive teams with Unburden or other cleaners. Rillaboom really compliments the Unburden users (which is also Anti-Ditto, unlike other Shell Smash and Weather Abilities), arguably even more so than Tapu Koko did last generation. CB Wood Hammer boosted by Grassy Terrain dunks on bulky waters, bulky grounds, and pretty much anything that doesn't resist or is immune to Grass (Seriously, this thing can do 51% to Avalugg with full investment. It can deal 32% to Doublade with Wood Hammer and while it holds Eviolite, and nearly 2HKOs if Eviolite is removed. And it can also do 42.8% to Weezing. Choice Band's Power Output is really insane). For anything that does resist grass, Knock Off can really choke those bulky checks, can prevent the opponent's scarfer from bopping your Unburden user, and it can U-turn into the appropriate check before sweeping.
(Although this is probably more fitting for the UU discussion, I think people should look at Hitmonlee. I won't rank it, but with Hawlucha being OU, and Slurpuff preferring Belly Drum, it could be viable in OU since it is complemented by Boom so well)
I then find myself using bulkier spreads on my Unburden users to help them set up. Thanks to the extra boost to Def from Grassy Seed, and the 1/16th health recovery, you can get away with some stupid things and makes setting up significantly easier. As long as your Unburden user is faster than the most relevant instant/1-turn speed tier (Swift Swim, Sand Rush, Shell Smash, Scarf, ect.), you can invest the remaining EVs into bulk, which can go the extra mile in in letting you set up and sweep the opponent.

It's a fantastic Pokemon, but there are still growing pains with it.
Weezing-G, Roserade, Noivern, Goodra, and Darmanitan all dunk on it back, even if they all are pretty crippled when their item is removed, all terrains are now removable by Defog, and Rillaboom can't set/remove hazards like Roserade, Celebi, Tsareena, and Rotom-C can.
 

Moutemoute

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I'd like to qualify above remarks because I don't think we can compare Tabu Bulu is SMOU and Rillaboom in SSUU. While both of them share the Grass-type, a great attack stat and the fantastic ability Grassy Surge we shouldn't forget that terrains have been nerfed from Gen 7 to Gen 8 and they're not as good as before. Tapu Bulu also has Horn Leech / Synthesis which allows it to have an insanely good Staying Power and the mesmerizing Fairy-type which is a pure bless compared to Rillaboom which has is a pure Grass-type which isn't the best typing both offensively and defensively. Last but not least, Tapu Bulu has Rock-type coverage which allows it to chunk Flying-types. On the other hand, Rillaboom doesn't have anything to really dent them outisde of Knock Off. I understand the above post but I firmly believe we shouldn't compare what cannot be compared.

Rillaboom is for sure a nice addition to the tier and another good user of Choice Scarf (finally another one) but it has way more flaws than Tapu Bulu and shouldn't be compared to it since they don't really share the same roles outisde of being offensive Grass-type with Grassy Surge. There is a lot of top threat Pokemon in Underused which can handle with ease a boosted Wood Hammer (such as Noivern, Cobalion, Incineroar, Escavalier, Weezing-G etc..) and the pure Grass-type of Rillaboom makes it weak to First Impression..

252+ Atk Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rillaboom: 344-408 (100.8 - 119.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

But otherwise I agree with what has been said especially Panther-T's post which is a super high quality post !
 
People it is not like Rilaboom will stick in this tire. The way usage stats are going, Riliboom will jump to OU, and even when Tapu Bulu releases, RIliboom will still finds its place as overall stronger offensive presence thanks to its wider offensive tool kit and superior speed, while Tapu Bulu will be also defensive threat with offensive presence that is able to punish flying threats, and also being able to check more threats thanks to fairy typing.

And most of your checks and switch ins get walloped by this set.

Rillaboom @ Grassy Seed
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe /4 def
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Drum Beating
- Acrobatics
- Superpower

This set is hard to wall. And it is just so flexible because of drum beating speed drop. Only good wall to this set is Weezing-galar, Noivern and escaviler that runs Def investment.Most others can do is damage it first, but not kill it outright.



4 Atk Escavalier Megahorn vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Rillaboom: 246-290 (72.1 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
+2 252+ Atk Rillaboom Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 267-315 (77.6 - 91.5%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Cobalion Close Combat vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Rillaboom: 111-132 (32.5 - 38.7%) -- 4.1% chance to 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252+ Atk Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rillaboom: 344-408 (100.8 - 119.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Golisopod First Impression vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Rillaboom: 230-272 (67.4 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Grassy Terrain recovery

And this is not only set the boom can run in tire. Sub+bulk up, choice sets, all out attacker with life orb. He is just such a versitile offensive threat.
 
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