Checks: Mienshao and Latias
Counters: Primarina and Chansey
Counters: Primarina and Chansey
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Project SS UU Victim Of The Week v2- Week 53: Darmanitan (Submissions)
- Thread starter Monky25
- Start date
How is chansey a counter? If Hydreigon NP's on the switch and the NP's two more times it can just beat you over more quickly than you can beat it. You'll probably just Teleport to something that can beat it but I do not think this meets the definition of a counter.Counters
by Yourwelcomethanku
Vote for 2 checks and 2 counters. You cannot vote for yourself. Voting ends October 7 at 11:59 PM PST. My votes are
Checks: Noivern and Mienshao
Counters: Chansey and Primarina
+6 252 SpA Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 526-621 (74.7 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+4 252 SpA Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 396-466 (56.2 - 66.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
EDIT for voting
Checks Mienshao and Noivern
Counters Sylveon and Primarina
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if you're letting hydra get to +6 then you're probably losing the game
I'm gonna resolve this issue since there's some discussion about it- the reason I included chansey as a counter rather than a check is that I felt it could consistently come in and force hydreigon out. While it does lose if hydriegon gets to +6, this scenario isn't happening as chansey will have just pivoted out to a revenge killer. Hydreigon gets forced out too since it doesn't want to take a toxic. The ability of chansey to come in and force hydrei out through toxic and pivoting into a revenge killer makes it a counter.
There will be no more discussion clogging this thread about this- I will have any further posts deleted. Chansey is a counter, end of story
There will be no more discussion clogging this thread about this- I will have any further posts deleted. Chansey is a counter, end of story
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Checks: Latias and Keldeo
Counters: Primarina and Sylveon
Counters: Primarina and Sylveon
Voting is up! For the checks, congrats to avg for winning the week and Monky25 for taking runner up. For the counters, congrats HydreigonTheChild for winning the week and scorbunnys for taking runner up. Your submissions will be added to the Hall of Fame. Remember that this week and next week are the last two in the cycle, so be sure to submit if you want to win! Down below is this week's victim!
Latias (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Draco Meteor
- Mystical Fire
- Roost
This week we have Latias! A controversial mon in the metagame right now, Latias has soared to dominance after given a second shot in UU. Its power, speed, and bulk have all contributed to its success. This set is regarded by many as the best set in the metagame right now, being able to hit staples like primarina and excadrill with ease. There's a chance she might get rebanned, so can you find her checks and counters? Submissions are due October 12 at 11:59 PM PST
Latias (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Draco Meteor
- Mystical Fire
- Roost
This week we have Latias! A controversial mon in the metagame right now, Latias has soared to dominance after given a second shot in UU. Its power, speed, and bulk have all contributed to its success. This set is regarded by many as the best set in the metagame right now, being able to hit staples like primarina and excadrill with ease. There's a chance she might get rebanned, so can you find her checks and counters? Submissions are due October 12 at 11:59 PM PST
Zarude-Dada @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Leaf Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Power Whip
- Darkest Lariat
- U-turn
- Rock Slide
Dada outspeeds OHKOes Latias with Darkest Lariat after Life Orb chip. It also has the bulk to take Draco from full. check
252 Atk Zarude Darkest Lariat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latias: 288-342 (95.6 - 113.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latias Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zarude: 255-302 (72.6 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latias Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zarude: 198-234 (56.4 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latias Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zarude: 255-302 (72.6 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latias Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zarude: 198-234 (56.4 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
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Mandibuzz @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 28 Def / 216 SpD / 16 Spe
Careful Nature
- Foul Play
- Roost
- Toxic
- U-turn
Mandibuzz can switch in and stall it till it has to recover, and then toxic it to win the 1v1. It is a hard check as it has to be in pristine health, and have boots up or no rocks at all, and it is tasked with handling other threats of the tier making it so its hard to preserve its hp. But none the less, mandibuzz can comftorably switch in and toxic or roost stall latias to make sure it will not be doing much
252 SpA Life Orb Latias Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 216+ SpD Mandibuzz: 177-208 (41.8 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0- Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latias: 168-200 (55.8 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 28 Def / 216 SpD / 16 Spe
Careful Nature
- Foul Play
- Roost
- Toxic
- U-turn
Mandibuzz can switch in and stall it till it has to recover, and then toxic it to win the 1v1. It is a hard check as it has to be in pristine health, and have boots up or no rocks at all, and it is tasked with handling other threats of the tier making it so its hard to preserve its hp. But none the less, mandibuzz can comftorably switch in and toxic or roost stall latias to make sure it will not be doing much
252 SpA Life Orb Latias Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 216+ SpD Mandibuzz: 177-208 (41.8 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0- Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latias: 168-200 (55.8 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
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Umbreon @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Foul Play
- Toxic
- Wish
- Protect
Phys Def Umbreon is a fantastic hard-check to this particular set that borders on countering if you can control hazards well, but is a little too vulnerable to being worn down through chip/some hazards to be a proper counter. While SpD does an even better job and full on counters this set, phys def has a lot of merit in this meta in terms of stuff like Mole and Mamoswine still, and provides a lot of utility into Latias / Hydreigon still, and healthily has you running secondary checks to them so that Umbreon won't get overwhelmed.
Umbreon has the special bulk to avoid being 2HKOd by LO Draco Meteor, even with rocks up except in the most exceptional of cases that can still have protect be used to avoid after. Any other attack bounces off it pretty comfortably, while Toxic is an ever-present threat to Latias and Foul Play can do considerable damage to still threaten it even after Toxic.
252 SpA Life Orb Latias Draco Meteor over 2 turns vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Umbreon: 295-348 (74.8 - 88.3%) -- 6.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0- Atk Umbreon Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latias: 168-200 (55.8 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
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Grimmsnarl @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Spirit Break
RestTalk max SpDef Grimmsnarl is a strong counter to Latias. Since its a Fairy it is immune to Latias's strongest attack in Draco Meteor, and Mystical Fire and Thunderbolt both do very little to it. This gives Grimmsnarl ample time to set up and KO Latias with Spirit Break.
252 SpA Life Orb Latias Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Grimmsnarl: 99-117 (25.1 - 29.6%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Latias Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Grimmsnarl: 82-97 (20.8 - 24.6%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Grimmsnarl Spirit Break vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latias: 206-246 (68.4 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 4 Atk Grimmsnarl Spirit Break vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latias: 312-368 (103.6 - 122.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
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Assault Vest Leech Life Drapion....
Check btw (it can get worn down by hazards + other things if latis teammates r annoying for it)
Hatterene (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 244 HP / 136 Def / 128 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind / Nuzzle
- Draining Kiss
- Psychic
- Mystical Fire
Draco Meteor is a free in, and Tbolt can't 2hko even after rocks as long as you got lefties (is a roll wo rocks, shouldnt matter since literally three of your moves change the rolls).
If you don't get in on Draco or for free, Lati can try to win a numerous amount of 50/50s since Dkiss doesnt do much, which makes it risky to come on Thunderbolt/Mfire if rocks are up despite dodging a 2hko. If hazards are off the field, you'll heal off the one tbolt/mystical fire with dkiss + 2 leftovers most of the time.
Nuzzle is a safe option if you want to be reliable against Lati, and you outspeed it once paralized with the given EV spread (also and mostly outspeeds - speed growth and below), but Calm Mind is overall better and can threaten out Lati just as well.
Since you can lose a handful of 50/50 in a row and get chipped, this is only a check, but a pretty fun one
252 SpA Life Orb Latias Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Hatterene: 110-131 (34.7 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Latias Mystical Fire vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Hatterene: 94-110 (29.6 - 34.7%) -- 12.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
-1 0 SpA Hatterene Draining Kiss vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latias: 74-90 (24.5 - 29.9%) -- 99.8% chance to 4HKO - (17.6 - 21.4% recovered)
0 SpA Hatterene Draining Kiss vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latias: 114-134 (37.8 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO - (27.1 - 31.8% recovered)
I was gonna pick Sylveon but I'll leave that to scorbunnys and go with my own submission to the creative sets thread as a Latias check.
Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 40 SpD / 216 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock
- Icy Wind
You will need a bit of luck on your side here with Iron Head flinches and/or Mystical Fire rolls but the odds are definitely in your favour. You slow Latias down with Icy Wind and then slam it with Iron Head until it goes down. Latias will need to either get very lucky with its Mystical Fire rolls or get some well-timed healing with Roost through Iron Head flinches to beat you. It will also be wearing itself down with LO recoil so Latias will not exactly love the 1v1 against you.
Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 40 SpD / 216 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock
- Icy Wind
You will need a bit of luck on your side here with Iron Head flinches and/or Mystical Fire rolls but the odds are definitely in your favour. You slow Latias down with Icy Wind and then slam it with Iron Head until it goes down. Latias will need to either get very lucky with its Mystical Fire rolls or get some well-timed healing with Roost through Iron Head flinches to beat you. It will also be wearing itself down with LO recoil so Latias will not exactly love the 1v1 against you.
252 SpA Life Orb Latias Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 40 SpD Jirachi: 182-216 (45 - 53.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0- SpA Jirachi Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latias: 56-68 (18.6 - 22.5%) -- possible 5HKO
0 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latias: 94-112 (31.2 - 37.2%) -- 83.9% chance to 3HKO
Iron Head damage after Latias takes minimum Icy Wind damage + Life Orb recoil: 0 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latias: 94-112 (31.2 - 37.2%) -- 19.9% chance to 2HKO
Iron Head damage after Latias takes maximum Icy Wind damage + Life Orb recoil: 0 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latias: 94-112 (31.2 - 37.2%) -- 75% chance to 2HKO
0- SpA Jirachi Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latias: 56-68 (18.6 - 22.5%) -- possible 5HKO
0 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latias: 94-112 (31.2 - 37.2%) -- 83.9% chance to 3HKO
Iron Head damage after Latias takes minimum Icy Wind damage + Life Orb recoil: 0 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latias: 94-112 (31.2 - 37.2%) -- 19.9% chance to 2HKO
Iron Head damage after Latias takes maximum Icy Wind damage + Life Orb recoil: 0 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latias: 94-112 (31.2 - 37.2%) -- 75% chance to 2HKO
Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- U-turn
- Fire Blast / Roost / Flash Cannon
With a
equipped, 
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I'm going to do this mon again just because Celebiii wants, but this is the last time cuz don't wanna be monotematic :3, this mons cool af tho
Reserving Sylv
Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
Sylveon is 100% a counter for this Latias set due to it's access to Wish and it's access to Hyper Voice which allows it to inflict lots of damage to Latias. It still should be careful of the CM sets, as they can lure Sylveon and 1v1 it, however, it can handle very well 3 attacks Latias as it's bulky enough to take it's coverage while being able to drop it's SpA with Mystical Fire if you want to, Wish also helps a little in this MU as it can health if it's at low, here's some calcs of it:
Reserving SylvSylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
Sylveon is 100% a counter for this Latias set due to it's access to Wish and it's access to Hyper Voice which allows it to inflict lots of damage to Latias. It still should be careful of the CM sets, as they can lure Sylveon and 1v1 it, however, it can handle very well 3 attacks Latias as it's bulky enough to take it's coverage while being able to drop it's SpA with Mystical Fire if you want to, Wish also helps a little in this MU as it can health if it's at low, here's some calcs of it:
252 SpA Life Orb Latias Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sylveon: 91-108 (23 - 27.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock, 2 layers of Spikes, and poison damage
252 SpA Life Orb Latias Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sylveon: 75-90 (19 - 22.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock, 3 layers of Spikes, and poison damage
-1 0 SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latias: 134-158 (44.5 - 52.4%) -- 17.2% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latias: 204-240 (67.7 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latias Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sylveon: 75-90 (19 - 22.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock, 3 layers of Spikes, and poison damage
-1 0 SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latias: 134-158 (44.5 - 52.4%) -- 17.2% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latias: 204-240 (67.7 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
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Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Soft-Boiled
- Teleport
Chansey is a brainless counter to Latias thanks to its unmatched Eviolite-boosted special bulk and Nature Cure ability that can wall all of Latias’ attacks. As long as Chansey remains healthy, it will always be a reliable switch-in to Latias. Chansey is rather passive, as it can only inflict damage on the opponent through Toxic and Seismic Toss. This is not a problem for a Roost + 3 attacks Latias set as Toxic will inevitably break down Latias, and it has no way of outpowering Chansey by setting up or hitting it on its weak defensive side with Psyshock. Latias would always be hindered by Chansey’s Toxic due to its lack of status-removal, however, Chansey should proceed with caution if the opponent takes advantage of its passiveness and sets up with a Calm Mind + Stored Power/Psyshock set. Though, set-up sets will all eventually die from poison before being able to deal substantial damage to Chansey. As it is impossible for Latias to wear Chansey down, Teleport is a fantastic option to grab momentum as Latias will definitely switch out, allowing Chansey to switch into another Pokémon that checks whatever replaces Latias.
252 SpA Latias Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 120-142 (17 - 20.1%) -- possible 5HKO
Diancie @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Diamond Storm
- Moonblast
- Body Press
Diancie counters latias very well, taking little from any of its attacks and heavily damaging it back with diamond storm or moonblast. I think Diancie is actually very cool rn, it’s a great rocker and check to kommo-o and synergizes well with Go D. Bulu.
With that out of the way it’s time to vote! Down below are the submissions for this week!
Checks
by Celebiii
Counters
by martinvtran
Vote for 2 checks and 2 counters. You cannot vote for yourself. Voting ends October 14 at 11:59 PM PST. My votes are
Checks: Mandibuzz and Umbreon
Counters: Chansey and Sylveon
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Hydreigon 
and daddy 
Sylveon
and Diancie 
and daddy Sylveon
and Diancie 
checks: 
counters:
counters: