• Smogon Premier League is here and the team collection is now available. Support your team!

STAB STABmons

looking from the outside in, im kinda surprised these moves weren't restricted earlier, especially torch song. its basically a better version of fiery dance, already a rly strong move, and since there's overall less tools to deal w/ special attackers it enables absurd snowballing, especially on a mon that isn't slow as molasses. esper wing is this to a lesser extent, especially as psychic is a weaker overall type than fire, but a lot of what could be said about torch song applies to it.

are there any plans to suspect take heart? it got only a slightly lower score than the restricted moves
 
are there any plans to suspect take heart? it got only a slightly lower score than the restricted moves
It was our judgment that it was mostly the combination of take heart and esper wing that was the problem, such that dealing with either one would fix it, but if take heart continues to be problematic it is absolutely not off the table for tiering action and we will be watching it closely.
 
:sv/tornadus-therian:
Tornadus-Therian (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Jolly / Naive Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Heat Wave / Focus Blast / Defrog

I've made my hatred of Iron Valiant pretty well known in the the Discord, but since nobody else seems to feel it should be banned I decided to look for some new answers to it. This was something I came up with that I don't think is particularly meta, but works well on the right teams.
The EVs outspeed +1 Iron Valiant and invest the rest into Attack then HP. The HP is important because it lets you barely live +2 Rapid-Strike Jet Punch, while you OHKO back after rocks.

Because this set has no Boots it needs extremely good hazard removal support in order to survive many hits, and while it Regenerator can help it get back to full it needs momentum from the other members of the team and no Rocks to be effective. I don't believe this set to be amazing or anything, but it does its job and isn't deadweight. It competes with other revenge killers for a teamslot, notably Scizor which does an even better job at revenging Valiant, although of course they beat some different mons.

252 Atk Tornadus-Therian Dragon Ascent vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant: 356-422 (123.1 - 146%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Punching Glove Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Jet Punch vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-Therian: 261-307 (84.4 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Tornadus-Therian Dragon Ascent vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: 326-386 (95.6 - 113.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Ice Shard vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-Therian: 224-266 (72.4 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Tornadus-Therian Dragon Ascent vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Weavile: 231-273 (82.2 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Tornadus-Therian Dragon Ascent vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zamazenta: 290-344 (89.2 - 105.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Tornadus-Therian Dragon Ascent vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Zamazenta: 194-230 (59.6 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Tornadus-Therian Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 214-252 (71 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Tornadus-Therian U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 154-182 (51.1 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
Hello again. This announcement is one that's a long time overdue, but I hope is one welcomed regardless.

I have come to my final decision of who will take on the role of tier leader, and will be passing the role on to SammyCe123 !
Please wish him luck in this position. Do note: I am not leaving council, I am simply passing the role on to someone that is more available, and able to take it on.

That'll be all for now. Thank you for your patience (that I probably don't deserve).

Tagging dhelmise to transfer The Main Thread Post, The Sample Teams Post, and The First Post in the Resource Page to Sammy.
 
New post-OMPL, pre-OMCL sample teams! Hope you enjoy them!!
Click on the sprites to get the pokepaste

Offense
:hatterene: :ninetales-alola: :darkrai: :crawdaunt: :zamazenta: :iron-boulder: - Healing Wish Iron Boulder + Veil HO by Clem
:gholdengo: :samurott-hisui: :volcarona: :iron-valiant: :raging-bolt: :landorus-therian: - Salac Gholdengo HO by pannu
:volcarona: :ting-lu: :kingambit: :latios: :primarina: :zamazenta: - Healing Wish HO by SammyCe123

If Lunar Dance is used on a pokemon that has not taken any damage or status, but has still used a move, then the entire Lunar Dance effect will be consumed. This is generally unfavourable since you would almost always want to use the effect in order to heal a teammate in the back that has been afflicted with status or heavily chipped. Healing Wish would not be used in this situation, and is thus considered optimal on these types of offense teams where this situation is somewhat frequent. An example of this can be seen in this OMPL game on turns 15 and 18.


On more balanced teams, it is significantly less likely to have these situations occur. In these cases, then Lunar Dance is certainly still viable. This is especially true if the balance team uses pokemon that frequently use moves with low pp, such as Walking Wake, Mamoswine and Moongeist Beam Gholdengo variants.

Bulky Offense
:thundurus: :toxapex: :landorus-therian: :ting-lu: :walking-wake: :iron-valiant: - CB Thundurus-I + Specs Walking Wake BO by pannu
:tyranitar: :toxapex: :rillaboom: :landorus-therian: :zamazenta: :gholdengo: - CB Rillaboom BO by QT
:latios: :walking-wake: :sylveon: :toxapex: :zamazenta: :landorus-therian: - Scarf Latios + Specs Walking Wake BO by QT
:walking-wake: :mamoswine: :zamazenta: :landorus-therian: :toxapex: :ting-lu:- LO Mamoswine + Specs Walking Wake BO by SammyCe123

Balance
:tyranitar: :excadrill: :hydrapple: :toxapex: :skarmory: :iron-valiant:- Hydrapple Sand Balance by pannu
:urshifu-rapid-strike: :sylveon: :toxapex: :corviknight: :ting-lu: :darkrai: - Scarf Darkrai + SD Urshifu-R Balance by pannu
:walking-wake: :mamoswine: :toxapex: :ting-lu: :rotom-wash: :sylveon: - Scarf Walking Wake + CB Mamoswine Balance by QT

Stall / Semi-Stall
:weezing-galar: :corviknight: :ting-lu: :weavile: :dondozo: :toxapex: - CB Weavile Semi-Stall by Clem
:ting-lu: :dondozo: :blissey: :skarmory: :clefable: :toxapex:- Dondozo Clefable Stall by SammyCe123
 
Last edited:
Perhaps im simply ill informed, but shouldnt oricorio be part of the forme-change list? You can change its form with the corresponding nectar, and the change is outside of battle, so i see little reason why it shouldnt be.
It probably should be in the list on the first post, but Oricorio is correctly implemented that way on Showdown.

1761114080198.png
 
I've been experimenting with ways to abuse Surging Strikes, and I think I've found something worth exploring further, Inteleon.

Inteleon @ Choice Band
Ability: Sniper
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant/Jolly Nature
- Surging Strikes
- Flip Turn
- Jet Punch
- Icicle Spear

Despite its subpar attack stat of 85, the Sniper ability boosting its crit damage by 1.5x means it's actually a bit stronger than Urshifu on average when using Surging Strikes. In addition, its Speed stat of 120 is far higher than either Shifu or Palafin, allowing it to get the jump on Latios and non-Booster Energy Iron Valiant, or go Adamant and still outrun both of them. It also has the benefit of not needing to switch in once to reach full power, like Palafin.

Its far lower bulk does mean it is significantly more niche than Shifu or Palafin, and its moves other than Surging Strikes do not do much damage, so it'd primarily see use as a late game cleaner or something along those lines. It's definitely worth using in that role, though, due to its high damage and speed.

It definitely wants the Choice Band or Scarf, as it only wants to click Surging Strikes 90% of the time. Most of the rest of the time, it'll click Flip Turn. Jet Punch can be used for niche scenarios where a low health target out speeds Inteleon. I used Icicle Spear in the last slot to bait Hydrapple and Beak Blast Landorus, but other options are definitely usable. Again, anything other than Surging Strikes or Flip Turn are corner case moves at best.
 
STABmons Winter Survey

Hey all! With OMCL reaching its end, we wanted to run another survey to gauge what the community thinks about the metagame after the bans of Torch Song and Esper Wing. We really aim to make STABmons as competitive and enjoyable as possible, so any and all input will be very appreciated.

Thank you in advance, and I hope you have an amazing day!​
 
Survey Results!
Thank you to everyone who answered, I apologise for being a bit late with this one. Hope you all enjoy.

1767911560029.png


Average: 6.4/10

1767911601794.png


Average: 7.7/10

These numbers are significantly higher than they were last survey (4.5 and 5.6 respectively), which is amazing to hear but they still a lot of room for improvement, especially in terms of making the metagame more competitive. We hope that as the metagame develops further, these numbers continue to increase.


1767908996922.png


Average: 3.5/5

Walking Wake is a very controversial mon in the meta right now, between its wide set variety and high damage output with strong stab moves. Choice Specs rips a lot of teams apart, and Substituite + Knock-Off being able to get past even AV Toxapex makes it a formidable foe. The sun teams also enable it to reach even higher levels of potency. We put it on the survey for this reason, and people seem to generally agree based on these quite high numbers. We will continue to monitor Wake, and see if it ends up being too strong for the metagame to handle.

1767909568512.png


Average: 2.4/5

Raging Bolt on the other hand seems to be more manageable, likely due to being soft-checked by both Ting-Lu and Tyranitar, giving a lot of teams a splashable option of efficiently checking it. Despite this, the Booster Energy + Calm Mind sets are still very strong, and it can be a very dangerous threat on sun teams that grant it access to both Protosynthesis and Life Orb, as well as a strong Solar Beam to cleave through Ting-Lu. We will continue to monitor Raging Bolt if it becomes too much as the metagame develops, but for now we think it is safe to assume that it is not banworthy.

1767909894992.png


Average: 2.8/5

The purpose of adding this to the Survey was twofold: there are a lot of potentially overwhelming mons roaming the metagame that abuse Surging Strikes, like Urshifu-R and Basculegion-M, that could be seen as overwhelming. The other aspect is that STABmons has already banned a lot of elements that have abused Surging Strikes, mainly Ogerpon-Wellspring, Gyarados, and Rain in the form of damp rock. If Surging Strikes were to go, then one or more of these elements could potentially come back to the metagame. Overall, it seems that there are a lot of mixed opinions on Surging Strikes, so we will continue discussions on it and see what option is best for the metagame. For now however, there will likely not be any action taken on Surging Strikes.

1767910387450.png


Average: 2.6/5

The reason why we put Meloetta on the survey was because one of the main elements that caused it to be broken, Esper Wing, was banned after Meloetta had been banned, so we wanted to see what the general consensus was on potentially freeing Meloetta back. It would no longer be able to snowball games as well as it did before, and it should be much easier to revenge kill now. Generally, you guys seem to agree, so we will continue discussions on potentially freeing Meloetta in the near future.


We also added a section where we asked you guys if anything should be looked at. The main responses that stood out were freeing Victory Dance and banning Zamazenta. Victory Dance is, frankly, unlikely to be freed due to the already high saturation of strong fighting types in the metagame, which would likely warp the metagame around offense structures abusing them. Zamazenta is a fair shout, as Substitute + Bulk Up sets have been shown to run away with a lot of games, and it can run a wide variety of coverage moves to get past its checks. However, it can't get past all of them, so it always has to make a sacrifice somewhere. It also already has a ton of common counterplay options depending on what coverage moves it decides to run, but that could also be seen as restricting in the builder. Either way, Zamazenta will be discussed more in the future. Any other comments or questions mentioned in this section will be forwarded to the council if deemed important.

And that's it! I hope you guys continue to enjoy STABmons, and I hope that it continues to progress towards a healthy and competitive metagame where all of the truly problematic elements have been dealt with. I know STABmons doesn't have an amazing track record in terms of being a competitive metagame, but I promise that we are doing everything we can to steadily improve upon it. If you have any questions or comments, feel free to reach out and let us know! Thank you and have a nice day.​
 

Attachments

  • 1767907382712.png
    1767907382712.png
    38.5 KB · Views: 2
  • 1767908405181.png
    1767908405181.png
    27.1 KB · Views: 1
Back
Top