No I mean it, look @ the scrafty thread and I posted a log where I 6-0 an opponents team with a DD Shed Scrafty. But it's easy with my set man :)
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Stall, my love
- Thread starter Woodchuck
- Start date
No I mean it, look @ the scrafty thread and I posted a log where I 6-0 an opponents team with a DD Shed Scrafty. But it's easy with my set man :)
This. So much this. However, know that the above set is the ONLY haxorus set in the game that will, 100% of the time, break through Skarmory, regardless of whether it's carrying leftovers or shed shell. SD on the switch, taunt in case of whirlwind (or an attempt at roost stalling out outrage), and outrage twice for the guaranteed 2hko after one brave bird recoil, even factoring in minimum damage rolls for all three and leftovers (even without entry hazards!).
The only way skarm wins is if it guesses you're going to taunt, and brave birds twice, and gets high damage rolls on both, and haxorus has sustained some previous damage (so, thats not gonna happen often). The alternative is switching skarm out to save it, and in the process allowing some poor poke on your team to take a +2 outrage. As far as i know the only thing that survives a +2 outrage and can attack back before getting 2hko'd is scizor, who's still ohko'd more than 50% of the time after SR, and only attacks back faster because he has bullet punch).
Brick Break is really only used for ferrothorn, who's 2hko'd by +2 earthquake anyways, and taunt is still useful if you fear leech seed (or twave, but running draco plate might bluff lum berry).
To be quite honest, I personally think that SD Taunt Hax's combination of surprise value and pure power makes it the best wallbreaker in the entire game. Being able to KO its only usual counter (and a thorn in the side of physically based HO) means it should be a mainstay on any team in need of a Skarmory lure.
Seconding Breloom being amazing against stall, and generally very anti-meta nowadays anyway. Resttalkers this gen are a lot less popular due to the new sleep mechanics (and it's something you can take advantage of anyway). I've found that the leech seed breloom works wonders and will usually incapacitate one pokemon with sleep and kill / annoy another with leech seed / focus punch.
Okay, so forgetting about Skarm is pretty stupid of me in hindsight.
Recovering from my loss, how good would super fang Crobat be at stall-breaking (from the creative moveset page).
Recovering from my loss, how good would super fang Crobat be at stall-breaking (from the creative moveset page).
I'd suggest this Crobat set as more effective at stall breaking:
Crobat @ Leftovers
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe or 232 HP / 56 Def / 76 SpD / 144 Spe
-Brave Bird
-Roost
-Taunt
-Super Fang / U-turn / Toxic
He has the potential to beat Skarm and most other walls one-on-one with a combination of Taunt, Super Fang, and Roost.
Hm?
Moveset usage stats don't exist.
And most stall teams nearly always have an attacking move for that.
Ferrothorn has Gyro Ball and Power Whip.
Jellicent has Scald.
Gliscor has EQ.
etc.
Just posting to say that those are some very creative sets, ginganinja! HJK / SD + BP Mienshao sounds like pure-win.
Rock Gem Terrakion is great with SR / Spikes support. Air Balloon Terrakion is somewhat like Air Balloon Excadrill - the item provides safer opportunities to set up, but in sacrifice of power. If people wanted power, they give Excadrill Life Orb. Since most teams only usually have 1 dedicated Terrakion counter, the one-time 50% boost to kill that 1 mon can really seal Terrakion's successful sweep.
Or you can just use CB Terrakion, but SDance Terrakion is less of a set-up bait, and doesn't forfeit any momentum.
stall is much more easy to manage this gen because of the sheer amount of viable options to beat it. with exca gone leaving starmie the best offensive spinner left it's easier to lay down hazards that stall teams hate like toxic spikes and spikes and stuff like Reun/mew/wobby utterly manhandle your average stall team.
Stall can still be done but it's not the awesome win most of the time unless you screw up like it was back in gen 3 and gen 4 post mence ban.
Stall can still be done but it's not the awesome win most of the time unless you screw up like it was back in gen 3 and gen 4 post mence ban.
Although portrayed as weak, I found Prankster Sableye to do well against both Stall as Offensive teams.
But it also work on a Ghost on a Stall team itself, checking the offensive behemoths in DD Dragonite, Gyarados, (double) boosting Terrakion, etc. As well as fully stopping the biggest threat to stall; CM Reuniclus.
It's spin-blocking capabilities are something of a let down though.
But it also work on a Ghost on a Stall team itself, checking the offensive behemoths in DD Dragonite, Gyarados, (double) boosting Terrakion, etc. As well as fully stopping the biggest threat to stall; CM Reuniclus.
It's spin-blocking capabilities are something of a let down though.
I agree with this, if you lead with it to avoid toxic spikes stall cant do anything to you at all, while you can recover off the damage from their attacks.
Prankster encore/taunt is a very great tool against stall teams not using magic coat or espy speaking of espy...
I'm finding more stall teams using Xatu and espy for using magic bounce to keep hazards off their field. in some ways it's better than rapid spinning in a few cases since you don't have to worry about spinning being blocked it's just a matter of coming when they try to spike.
so if you see a stall team using them you most assuredly want to get rid of them so you can put the nasty shit on their field.
I'm finding more stall teams using Xatu and espy for using magic bounce to keep hazards off their field. in some ways it's better than rapid spinning in a few cases since you don't have to worry about spinning being blocked it's just a matter of coming when they try to spike.
so if you see a stall team using them you most assuredly want to get rid of them so you can put the nasty shit on their field.
In the same vein, I've found physically defensive Mew works well against both too with much greater overall bulk but without priority.
AJC said:
Disagree, no stall team worth their salt should be using either of them in place of a Rapid Spinner (and it's arguable that they should be using them at all due to the lack of things they actually counter/check...stall teams are already pressed harder than ever to cockblock a multitude of things without giving up a teamslot on a piss-frail Psychic-type).
One problem is that Tyranitar is perhaps the most frequent user of Stealth Rock in the metagame right now and it would take some serious cahoonies to switch the Magic Bouncers into him. You also put yourself in a position where you need to actively predict and stall teams hate being put in that situation. There's quite a few other problems but the short version is that a stall team absolutely needs their side of the field to be free of hazards and Magic Bounce is a terribly inconsistent way of doing that.
also even if you successfully switch in you'll just get pursuited to death, unless you're dual-screening, in which case you're just waiting for a crit.
anyone have any good stall sets? as opposed to stuff that tears up stall?
anyone have any good stall sets? as opposed to stuff that tears up stall?
I'm more of a UU player but the wall presence is definitely large especially with Hail stall being a monstrous team. One thing that I would say works best for me is to keep the offensive pressure going because a wall can only take so much hits and check so much. Most stall teams pack a pHazer so setup sweepers are pretty much wasting turns and trapping walls will net you at least one kill but then they bring out their counter.
Bulky Offense is a team that can dish out the pain because most walls can only hit frailer and more fragile Pokémon with Scald and Seismic Tosses. Now Hyper Offense suffers from fragility and packing setup sweepers which stall loves to see because of pHazing being key on one or two Pokémon and using lighter attacking moves which will widdle down bulky walls or attackers and smack the lesser bulky sweepers.
Pursuiters are quite useful for murdering Ghosts on the switch and letting your spinner clean the field of entry hazards when need be. Perish Song is also an interesting way to force walls out and to a greater extent using Perish Song and a trapper.
Bulky Offense is a team that can dish out the pain because most walls can only hit frailer and more fragile Pokémon with Scald and Seismic Tosses. Now Hyper Offense suffers from fragility and packing setup sweepers which stall loves to see because of pHazing being key on one or two Pokémon and using lighter attacking moves which will widdle down bulky walls or attackers and smack the lesser bulky sweepers.
Pursuiters are quite useful for murdering Ghosts on the switch and letting your spinner clean the field of entry hazards when need be. Perish Song is also an interesting way to force walls out and to a greater extent using Perish Song and a trapper.
I'm primarily an offensive player and i found myself winning more versus stall teams. A lot of the stall teams nowadays are very prone to entry hazards and you can exploit this by having a entry hazard set up pkmn + ghost-type. Another pokemon i love the use on an offensive team is a grass-type for those stupid quagsires, because to be honest, quagsire hard shuts set-up teams so hard. Unless youre packing a grass-type or have something like Cb haxorus or dragonite, quagsire becomes too problematic imo.