Stall Teams in UU

[Arkian]

Another major win-condition stall has is Calm Mind Slowbro:

Slowbro @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Psyshock / Ice Beam
- Slack Off

Slowbro is an amazing Pokemon to use on stall teams right now. Most stall teams lack something that can set up and sweep late-game, and that's because most setup sweepers aren't really suited to be on stall teams. Slowbro, however, is a perfect setup sweeper for stall teams to use since it also doubles as a physically defensive wall that stall teams commonly need. After one or two Calm Minds, even super effective attacks struggle to break through Slowbro from the special side, while its excellent physical defense takes care of the physical side. Scald is an obligatory move for every bulky Water, and works amazing in conjunction with Slowbro since it virtually also boosts Slowbro's physical defense to make sure nothing can touch it once it gets going. Psyshock is a very nice move to have an edge in CM wars while also hitting CM Keldeo for a lot of damage. Ice Beam, on the other hand, gives you a backup net to deal with Sub Zygarde, a huge threat to all stall teams. Slack Off is mandatory recovery, since this variant of Slowbro won't be abusing Regenerator too much because it won't want to switch out and lose its boost.

Something to note about Slowbro is how susceptible it is to Toxic. This is why pairing it with a Heal Bell/Aromatherapy user like Florges, Chansey, or Umbreon is really important. Not that this should be hard, since stall teams commonly carry one of those Pokemon.

 

[New Light]

Well, as you all are probably aware, several extremely potent stallbreakers were recently banned and Thundurus T was moved back into UU. I see stall as more viable than ever now, although Thundurus T's monstrous power and access to Nasty Plot make it a huge threat to this playstyle. As I see it, we've lost access to a handful of good stallbreakers and gained access to just one new one in return.

 

[EonX]

Yeah, stall teams got a major buff. It's now insanely difficult to stop CroCune, a common win condition for Stall teams. PhysDef Mega Ampharos also got a lot more viable with Dragons leaving and a SpDef Mega Ampharos can be a decent answer to most variants of Thundurus-T. Nidoking is still in the tier, and an often-forgotten about Pokemon, Nidoqueen, is still around to give Stall teams trouble. Outside of these, there's also CB and Mixed versions of Victini. There's still some options to beat stall, but there's no doubt that stall has gotten a lot more viable with the recent bans.

 

[New Light]

Thundy will be incredible against stall, but I think I'll feel cheap if I use it. It's a shame about Mega Houndoom. He wasn't very threatening without proper support, but with the sun up he 2HKOed specially defensive Florges or OHKOed with sun and a Nasty Plot boost.

 

[56k]

I've been trying to add a little content here and there to the OU stall threads and I've been using a wide range of UU pokemon to great effect there. I took one look at the banlist here and seriously how can you kill anything? I haven't jumped into the UU ladder yet but it seems like there are no good wall breakers in UU right now lol. Granted I might be surprised by something once I join in but what are people around here using to break stuff like Slowbro, Amoongus, Amomola, Meloetta, Vappy, Florges, Cresselia, Quagsire, Ditto, Hippowdon, Sableye, Celebi. I had to scroll down all the way to #89 to finally see some UU legal offensive prescence and that's shitty chandelure lol. What's in store for me if I try out a stall team? Tornadus and Cloyster and Victini seem like the only legitimate threats right now...

 

[New Light]

I've been trying to add a little content here and there to the OU stall threads and I've been using a wide range of UU pokemon to great effect there. I took one look at the banlist here and seriously how can you kill anything? I haven't jumped into the UU ladder yet but it seems like there are no good wall breakers in UU right now lol. Granted I might be surprised by something once I join in but what are people around here using to break stuff like Slowbro, Amoongus, Amomola, Meloetta, Vappy, Florges, Cresselia, Quagsire, Ditto, Hippowdon, Sableye, Celebi. I had to scroll down all the way to #89 to finally see some UU legal offensive prescence and that's shitty chandelure lol. What's in store for me if I try out a stall team? Tornadus and Cloyster and Victini seem like the only legitimate threats right now...

Stall is hard to beat atm due to the banning of the best stallbreakers. I think Shaymin could be another huge threat to stall. Seed Flare destroys bulky Water types and Hippowdon and its 40% chance to cut Sp Def in half means that even walls can't switch in safely. Furthermore, Natural Cure is a fantastic ability to combat stall. The prevalence of a few Flying types in the tier, especially Tornadus-T, limits Shaymin's potential but even so, its ability to kill many stall team staples makes it worth considering. I haven't seen Shaymin used at all this gen, but I think people may give it a chance with the recent changes to the tier severely limiting methods to beat stall.

Also Thundurus-T just moved back into UU and I don't think I need to go into great detail to explain why that will be great against stall. Base 145 Sp Atk+Nasty Plot. Good luck walling that.

Finally, stallbreaker Crobat is still viable. Taunt, Super Fang, Toxic, Roost, Brave Bird, and even Defog are all excellent options to use on the Bat.

 

[EonX]

While Nidoking is probably the most common threat to stall, I think that the hardest threat to stall is, indeed, his sister, Nidoqueen. At least with Thundurus-T, you have Stealth Rock to immediately strip it of 25% of its max HP. And any stall team with Porygon2 will have, at worst, a hard check to it (outright counters Double Dance) Nidoking is a good bit easier to wear down as it lacks some bulk and generally doesn't invest in HP.

Then there's Nidoqueen. 90 / 87 / 85 bulk doesn't seem all that amazing until you realize that Queen generally invests quite heavily in HP. With the extra HP investment, Nidoqueen is a bit more difficult to wear down and she has the same great coverage Nidoking does, often with greater power thanks to running a Modest nature. She's immune to Toxic, resistant to Rocks, and can run Life Orb without the recoil due to Sheer Force. Virtually no stall threat can OHKO Nidoqueen and very few can even 2HKO her. The only common stall threat that can avoid the 2HKO from a Nidoqueen running Sludge Wave, Earth Power, and Focus Blast and return a 2HKO is SpDef Mew. P2 only does 50% max with Ice Beam if its fully SpDef. M-Ampharos has a tough time 2HKOing with Dragon Pulse and a physically defensive set is often OHKOed by Earth Power. Tough thing to handle for stall teams; possibly even harder to handle than Nidoking thanks to the extra bulk and marginally higher power.

 

[Mahmudkipz]

I've been trying to add a little content here and there to the OU stall threads and I've been using a wide range of UU pokemon to great effect there. I took one look at the banlist here and seriously how can you kill anything? I haven't jumped into the UU ladder yet but it seems like there are no good wall breakers in UU right now lol. Granted I might be surprised by something once I join in but what are people around here using to break stuff like Slowbro, Amoongus, Amomola, Meloetta, Vappy, Florges, Cresselia, Quagsire, Ditto, Hippowdon, Sableye, Celebi. I had to scroll down all the way to #89 to finally see some UU legal offensive prescence and that's shitty chandelure lol. What's in store for me if I try out a stall team? Tornadus and Cloyster and Victini seem like the only legitimate threats right now...

If anything the most potent wallbreakers are still in the tier. On the physical side Darmanitan still kill anything that does not resist Sheer Force boosted Flare Blitz, Rock Slide or Superpower and at worse it can U-turn out to an appropiate answet. There is also Victini whose V-create and Bolt Strike can tear through anything that isn't Water/Ground or Dragon/Ground, and can go mixed with Grass Knot/Energy Ball and Glaciate to handle those threats, or it could just be like Darm and U-turn out. Cloyster the unfortunate OU drop can Shell Smash and proceed to destroy with its 125BP STAB and coverage. Like Victini, it can also go mixed with Hydro Pump to get past physical walls like Hippowdon or Aggron. And there is Flame Orb Guts SD Heracross who tears slow but bulky teams apart with its Guts Boosted Facade, Close Combat ad Knock Off at +2.

On the special side, we have Nidoking and Nidoqueen with their Poison/Ground STAB combo that rips the Florges/Aggron core apart and the last two move slots they can run BoltBeam or Fight/Ghost or Fire coverage, which gives stall teams nightmares as you never know what they carry s coverage - in fact, they can 2HKO the bulkiest of walls with the right moves. Nidoqueen can also pack Rocks and T.Spikes to put switching pressure on your side. Nidoking is usually faster with Max Speed Timid but Nidoqueen is harder to wear down and hits harder with HP Investment and a Modest nature. Then there is the recently freed Thundurus Therian, who can use Nasty Plot to boost its SpA to horrifying levels and proceed to 2HKO most things in the tier with psuedo BoltBeam coverage with HP Ice as well as STAB T-bolt, combined with a coverage move of its choice: Grass Knot to murder heavy Water/Ground types, Focus Blast for Porygon2 and Umbreon or Sludge Wave for Florges. Starmie the recent OU drop can use its BoltBeam plus STAB to hit both sides of the defenses thanks to Psyshock. With its phenomal coverage, a player can predict around a bit and hit switch-ins with a Super Effective, Life Orb Analytic boosted attack that few can absorb easily. It can also provide Rapid Spin support which is always appreciated.

Tl;dr Stall is pretty dominant right here in UU, but we are nowhere short of wallreakers to handle even the greatest walls. Hawlucha, Daunt, Hax, Mence and Mag aren't the only answers to stall.

 

[pokemonisfun]

Eh I can't be bothered to reply to all these posts anymore but I read most of them so yeah

The Nidos are indeed a sizeable threat to stall but you can run Snorlax to deal with them pretty well. Focus Blast is both rare and hits twice in a row only half the time and only has 8 PP so it is a bit of a stretch to say Nidoqueen and king can get past Snorlax easily imo.

Thundy is banned thank goodness for stall but Megadoom is a pretty large problem, maybe slightly more doable than Thundy though.

Zygarde @ Leftovers
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 HP / 96 SDef / 8 Spd / 152 Def
Impish Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Dragon Tail
- Earthquake

Run this guy to deal with it. It also has special wall friends in Snorlax and Florges so he never feels too pressured to take on Houndoom and Chandelure on my team, which incidentally is a very good stall team imo. Zygarde has more bulk than Hippowdon physically and specially (significantly more specially). It is not too weak as it can easily KO Houndoom with SR up and 2HKO Cobalion (SD Cobalion is a threat). There are probably better EVs to use but yeah I just threw it together.

I have used some variant of Zygarde on all of my UU teams and this one of course only works on stall and is my favorite by far, even more fun than the Subcoil set.

 

[EonX]

hilarious , not sure about Focus Blast being rare. It's a standalone move on the 3rd moveslot of Nidoking's main set in its disucssion thread, so it should be fairly standard. Snorlax isn't bad per se, but I just see it being very difficult to justify using on a full-blown Stall team. When looking at other special walls in the tier, they bring a good bit more of support to the table than Snorlax does.
Florges: Brings the ability to pass Wishes and take up cleric duty. Dragon immunity is less important now, but its Fighting-type resistance is huge and she can easily invest heavily in physical defense since her Special Defense is stupid high to begin with.
Umbreon: Much like Florges, Umbreon brings Wish and Cleric support in one teamslot. Unlike Florges, Umbreon is not a free switch-in for dangerous physical Fire-types such as Darmanitan and Victini due to the threat of Foul Play. Heracross gives it hell, but Mienshao has trouble successfully breaking Umbreon while staying in since Protect discourages HJK. Snorlax rarely has the room to run Protect, and is thus destroyed.
Mew: You're looking at one of the best Nidoking/Queen counters in all of UU. SpDef Mew can bring Defog or Rocks support depending on team needs. Will-O-Wisp deters physical attackers from testing their luck. It has reliable recovery and Synchronize discourages the use of status moves on Mew. Sucks that Mew gives Megadoom an absolute no-risk switch-in should it be defensive.
Porygon2: Reliable recovery, decent power, and it can also generally check the Nidos. Trace actually powers up its Ice Beam when it switches into King/Queen and it can use Recover to basically make it impossible for them to break P2 with Focus Blast due to the accuracy reasons you mentioned. Most Fighting-types are bad news for P2, but then again, they are for Snorlax as well.

Imo, unless you need your special wall to cockblock special Fire-types and emergency check physical Fire-types, I just don't see the need to use Snorlax when you've got Mew and P2 to be solid answers to the Nidos or Florges and Umbreon to provide great overall support for stall teams. Zygarde is really interesting though, but wouldn't a SpDef set work better for its resistances? (unless you really need an answer to Victini/Darmanitan of course)

 

[C AllStar]

Snorlax is actually pretty good in stall teams. One important thing it gets is phazing, which stops boosting sweepers on their track. It also has decent base 100 attack with a strong STAB move, allowing it to hit many sweepers hard before they can manage to break it. With proper evs, it can manhandle many threats to stall including Mega Houndoom, SubCM Raikou etc. I sometimes even run Curse over Sleep Talk on specially defensive Snorlax and it provides a decent win condition while still acts as a special wall and phazer early game.

 

[silenced]

Snorlax is actually pretty good in stall teams. One important thing it gets is phazing, which stops boosting sweepers on their track. It also has decent base 100 attack with a strong STAB move, allowing it to hit many sweepers hard before they can manage to break it. With proper evs, it can manhandle many threats to stall including Mega Houndoom, SubCM Raikou etc. I sometimes even run Curse over Sleep Talk on specially defensive Snorlax and it provides a decent win condition while still acts as a special wall and phazer early game.

This pretty much, except snorlax on stall teams should be running body slam unless there is a conflict in strategy (e.g toxic spike use). If anything, snorlax should be used in tandem with one of those other walls, probably florges as the aromatherapy support would help in restalk usage, while patching up that annoying fighting weakness to an extent.

EonX- P2 to me is more a glue pokemon rather than something for stall. It's a great stand-alone wall, but it doesn't exactly help stall to have pokemon that work alone (with the exception of something like crocune, and even then crocune offers some decent support) as opposed to pokemon that support each other as a team (which porygon2 struggles to do in comparison to other notable stall pokemon).

Basically, snorlax shouldn't be compared to clerics. It's not its job to be a cleric, but rather a phazer, which only mew can offer otherwise (and even then mew is strapped for moveslots in that regard)

 

[C AllStar]

This pretty much, except snorlax on stall teams should be running body slam unless there is a conflict in strategy (e.g toxic spike use).

Just one thing, you shouldn't be using Body Slam or paralysis in general in stall at all as stall teams don't really care about speed at all. This is also why I hate using Sticky Web (especially Galvatula) as it is completely a useless teamslot against stall teams.

 

[Brammi]

I'm running a stall team atm, which is more bulky offensive with a bunch of safe switching. It's pretty weak to fire spam, mainly because I made it before the thundy-t reban. But it seems to be working well, mainly because of the lack of many good defoggers, while there are lots of great spinners.

 

[exotic]

Just one thing, you shouldn't be using Body Slam or paralysis in general in stall at all as stall teams don't really care about speed at all. This is also why I hate using Sticky Web (especially Galvatula) as it is completely a useless teamslot against stall teams.

That's why you use Smeargle with Webs and Spikes. Add an Stealth Rocker like Queen of Krookodile and a bunch of hardhitting pokemon and your team is good to go. If you face an offensive team, use Sticky Web and if you face a stall team use spikes.

 

[Wobblebuns]

Bump.

Just some brief points about stall as of now.

Arrival of Blissey

• Gave stall a solid special wall to work with making notable wallbreakers in Nidoking/queen much more easier to handle.

Fairy Power (Florges, Emergence of Aromatisse, etc.)

• Good coverage of threats to common Dragon- and Fighting-types and are one of stall's best answers to Mixed Hydreigon

On Wednesdays Every day, we wear pink

• Formation of the pink cores; a mix between Alomomola, Blissey, Slowbro, and Mew (there's possibly more) creates a solid foundation for stall

Naturally, people would adapt to such bulky monstrosities and (un)fortunately, they aren't too short for answers. Here are just some troublesome threats to Stall:

Hide

SubSplit, SubCM

Stallbreaker

Swords Dance

Mixed Nasty Plot

Stallbreaker, Nasty Plot

I've been experimenting with various Pokemon that can help in managing these threats easier. Now, I'd like to highlight the following Pokemon for those merits.

Granbull @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Impish nature
[ Play Rough | Earthquake / Crunch | Thunder Wave | Heal Bell / Roar ]

• Interesting alternative for a Fairy slot. Great ability to abuse its typing, which lets it take on physical Dark-, Dragon-, and Fighting-types much better. Lack of reliable recovery sucks so Wish support is appreciated.

Hydreigon @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 24 SDef / 232 Spd
Timid Nature
[ Taunt | Toxic | Roost | Dark Pulse ] credits to Swamp Link

• It has above average bulk coupled with nice resistances to Fire, Water, Grass, Ghost, and immunities to Ground and Psychic. Good answer for (SubSplit, SubCM) Chandelure and (Stallbreaker, Defogger) Mew. Also a nice way to to get the jump on stall vs stall scenarios. 232 Speed EV's are to outspeed Pokemon up to 95 base Speed. An alternative EV spread of 252 HP / 184 SpD / 72 Spd can be used for taking hits better while still outspeeding Stallbreaker Mew.

Mega-Aerodactyl @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Def / 96 Spd
Jolly Nature
[ Stealth Rock | Aerial Ace | Stone Edge / Taunt | Roost ] credits to Kokoloko

• It's a good check to NP Infernape and to an extent, Chandelure. Counters Crobat and can also handle another Flying-type in Honchkrow. Can provide utility in SR or Defog. 96 Speed EV's to outspeed Froslass prior to M-evolving.

 

[Sage]

Stall will also be losing a powerful pokemon for it in Slowbro come the end of August, but Alomomola (sort of) makes up for this. The Fighting resist was amazing though. As said before, Calm Mind gave stall a win condition that could break through weakened teams. Heracross will also be leaving the tier, imo making stall jump in viability a little bit. It was the ultimate stall breaker, could run choice band, SD Flame Orb, so many wasy to fuck stall over who had like 2 answers to it. Aromatisse and Granbull were really what stopped it thanks to that Bug typing making it past Slowbro, and +2 Facade with Flame Orb OHKOes Aromatisse iirc. Both the mentioned Fairies will continue to be used though since Haxorus is as much of a threat as ever. Also I've been experimenting with Mega Ampharos a little bit and it fits nicely. It's a great Honchkrow check, and Volt Switch is useful to ease prediction, and Heal Bell is also useful in ether conjunction with a rest talk set or just 3 attacks to use its awesome resisitances.

 

[Jellied Eels]

I also want to point out that, while there are some standalone sets that gives stall users headaches (I would add CM Zam to your list btw, there's not a whole lot stall can do to stop it), more often than not it's a combination of mons that's going to prove troublesome, like BandCross + Mega Absol, Iron Tail Hydreigon + DD Hax or even the king uu voltturn core. Not to mention the rising popularity of Band Dugtrio which forces the stall user to play very carefully with its Wish passer etc...

Tbh considering the state of the metagame atm I think those funky stall teams with like a Scarf user and a couple of win conditions like the aforementioned CM Slowbro are your best bet at having a consistent ladder experience but then again I'm a pretty bad stall player so I'll probably be proved wrong.

 

[Patrick1088]

Sage of the 6 its going to be hard imagining a tier without bro or hera. Is it definite that they are going up?

 

[RowDog]

Rest/Talk Granbull is also a thing, for those who would rather reliable recover on it. Play Rough is pretty mandatory but then EarthQ or Heal Bell can be used in the last slot. But honestly though, Granbull and Aromatisse are so helpful to stall. There abilities to counter (/check for some of the funkier sets) a whole lot of Pokemon that threaten stall, including Haxorus, Heracross, SD Lucario, Mega Absol and Hydreigon (Granbull should watch out for Flash Cannon though) to name a few of the biggest ones is great for stall teams, and generally have one of them on every stall team I make.

If Slowbro moves up that will be rather game changing for UU, and so will Heracross leaving.

And lastly Ditto is pretty cool to have on a stall team, as in UU you can run into some real random shit which has viability, for which Ditto (in a lot of cases) can be a nice fail safe for stall, as there are a LOT of Pokemon that have the potential to threaten stall teams if they are not prepared for them (although they may be gimmicky in other situations).

 

[Sage]

Jellied Eels Semi Stall is much more effective right now due to the sheer number of threats that Stall has had to adapt to in recent months. Mega Aerodactyl, Fletchinder, and the like are now becoming commonplace. Aero in particular thanks to amazing STABs and Pursuit can check stuf like Sub CM Chandelure, NP Infernape, Crobat, and bulkier sets even do well against titans like Alakazam and Honchkrow (roost needed to avoid Sucker Punch). I recently made a semi stall entitled Pink Sandwhich, which had a pink core of Blissey, Alomomola, Granbull, and Mew, and I was geared for a late game Sub SD Cobalion sweep (who is a monster by the way), and Mega Aero to Pursuit trap stuff and check Infernape well.

EDIT: Patrick1088 I'm sad too mah boi Slowbro is in like half my teams.

 

[silenced]

Something I've been meaning to ask with the rise of the various pink core incarnations would be what has happened to the phazing aspect of stall?

I'm probably stuck in the past still when it comes to this sort of thing but I always imagined stall to be the team archetype that abuses moves such as roar and dragon tail to their fullest, but these days it'd seem difficult to find a user of the move beyond hippowdon with whirlwind. I know the pink core does cover a wide portion of the metagame perhaps to the point where phazers aren't as high in demand, or the lack of set-up sweeping in UU, or am I missing something else?

 

[Sage]

Something I've been meaning to ask with the rise of the various pink core incarnations would be what has happened to the phazing aspect of stall?

I'm probably stuck in the past still when it comes to this sort of thing but I always imagined stall to be the team archetype that abuses moves such as roar and dragon tail to their fullest, but these days it'd seem difficult to find a user of the move beyond hippowdon with whirlwind. I know the pink core does cover a wide portion of the metagame perhaps to the point where phazers aren't as high in demand, or the lack of set-up sweeping in UU, or am I missing something else?

Hazards have become less critical to Stall's composure with the rise of Defog. Most run Rocks and Toxic Spikes if they have like Nidoqueen or Forretress. Also the only pokemon who commonly run phasing moves in UU right now are Swampert, Hippowdon, and Goodra. Only Hippo really fits in a stall team, the others more suited to balance.

 

[wasteofspace]

Phazing has become much more difficult to abuse due to defog removing all that potential damage from stealth rock and spikes. The Nidos and Roserade are so common that toxic spikes have lost a lot of merit with them still alive.

 

[KaosChrist]

Stall is quite viable in UU I have found since I have started fiddling around in the tier. One of the biggest threats to any stall team is clerics (and magic bounce). I would like to discuss good checks and counters to the clerics in this tier.

A few things to consider:

1. Most threats to stall in UU are weak to Fighting (Blissy, Umbreon, Mega Absol, Steel types).
2. Florges is weak to Poison and Steel.
3. Hitting physically is much better than hitting specially.
4. Knock Off and Pursuit are handy tools to have.

One answer I came up with is Toxicroak. Both of his STABs hit all of the above threats super effectively plus he gets Knock Off AND Pursuit. Poison Touch also helps wallbreak and deters Wish to an extent because they will want to Heal Bell off the poison. Dry Skin I'm sure could potentially help in some way as it is his best ability, but none of the above threats use water attacks so I feel that extra boost to his damage and synergy with stall is better.

Something along the lines of...

Toxicroak @ Life Orb
Ability: Poison Touch
252 Atk/252 Spe/4 HP
Adamant Nature

Poison Jab
Drain Punch
Knock Off
Pursuit

Any other ideas?