Standard OU Gen V Sun: Because Gen IV sun was horrible...

[alphatron]

Well this is my first rmt. I figured I would post this since I'm far from the best team builder and usually only build teams to handle things that I normally run into that end up annoying me. Well, here goes.

Last edit: 1/28/11 Changes in the comments are in italics. Changes to the movesets or pokemon are in bold.

Forretress (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Atk / 144 Def
Relaxed (+Def, -Spd)
- Volt Change
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball
- Rapid Spin

Still the same usual and reliable lead. Gyro Ball has replaced EQ and the IVs have been reduced to 0. If leading with him, Forretress is either setting up stealth rock or keeping it off the field. Since he's so slow, Volt Change provides a free switch to Ninetales to set up the sun or any of my other pokemon if sunlight is already up.
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Garchomp (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake
- Sunny Day

*Changes as of 1/28/11*: I whined about Garchomp losing to specs/scarf'd lati twins when Hydriegon/Sazandora still lost to scarf lati@s anyway. I was pretty close to using something like Slowking with Ice Beam, Focus Blast, Fire Blast, filler. But then I thought of this. It's friggin genius. Forcing out Tyranitar and Politoed (or taking a rare ice beam from both...), while using sunny day on the switch is nothing short of excellent. When Natt switches into me, he receives quite a warm welcome. In general, garchomp hits hard and is still pretty fast. Ignoring balloon hp ice heatran (ugh), he's been great. Slapping a weather move on a pokemon on a weather team makes it extremely easy to keep the weather in your favor, and it doesn't necessarily have to be garchomp doing it. Since he gives me two 4x ice weaknesses, I could just another pokemon to do this aside from him, but he seems to be the best choice. Immunity to thunder wave, sun boosted
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fire blasts, decent bulk, raw power...if anyone has any ideas for a sweeper or pivot that I can slap sunny day onto, please let me know.

Jumpluff (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 208 Def / 84 SDef / 216 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Momento
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Encore
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Worry Seed has been ditched entirely and I'm now running Momento. Nothing else has really changed though. I switch in on a set up move or resisted/immune attack, encore it, and proceed to subseed. Momento has been wonderful in general. At this point, I don't see anything that needs to change.

Ninetales (M) @ Balloon
Trait: Drought
EVs: 216 HP / 40 SDef /252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Power Swap
- Disable
- Overheat
- Protect

*Changes as of 1/28/11*: I decided against the chesto rest build (although it looks really good) and went back to what I knew. Until people catch on to this, swapping -6 SAtk to reuniclus, jellicient, and suicune is great. If me opponent has a weather changer of their own, I can depend on garchomp or venusaur.
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Blaziken (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Sword's Dance
- Hi Jump Kick
- Blaze Kick
- Shadow Claw

So after learning that LO Claw Sharpen was weaker than Wide Lens Sword's Dance, I decided to try out a wide lens set instead. Then Hi Jump Kick missed, Blaze Kick missed, Hi Jump Kick missed again and then Blaziken died. Screw the wide lens. Either Claw Sharpen or bust. But I decided to be a man and go the with the raw offensive power I like so much. Shadow Claw over Stone Edge because of Lati@s and Burungeru. That's about it though, as an unresisted Flare Blitz is stronger than an SE Shadow Claw, without the sun. Under the sunlight, a resisted flare blitz is stronger than a nuetral shadow claw. Blaziken dies a lot faster now, but not without some definite sacrifices from the opponent's team.

*Changes as of 1/28/11*: With Venusaur losing giga drain, me learning that +2 LO Flare Blitz literally ohko'd everything under the sun (save for Kingdra and bulky Suicune who were both 2HKO'd and flash fire pokes), and then learning that +2 LO Blaze Kick still OHKO'd everything, Blaziken has become the most important pokemon on my team. Blaze Kick was added over Flare Blitz so that Blaze could stick around for longer while still killing things. Now he's perfect. Blaze has no issues. I sac Jumpluff with momento and send in Blaziken. Then I set up or kill the incoming base 130 pokemon or scarfed lati@s. Fully defensive gyarados is the only pokemon who gives blaziken any issue, and the only reason to choose stone edge over shadow claw at this point.
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Venusaur (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 40 Def / 248 SAtk / 220 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Growth
- Energy Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]
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A sun team with only one Chlorophyll sweeper? Without screens, I find venusaur to be the most dependable sun sweeper (with screens its either shiftry or victreebel). Venusaur is bulky enough to growth on most neutral attacks and sweep. With the fifth gen buff, giga drain counts as both a STAB attack and something to alleviate life orb damage. It also allows Venusaur to handle Blissey without thunderwave with relative ease. Hidden Power fire is something all chlorophyll sweepers have learned to use. As horrible an attacking type as poison is, a +2 sludge bomb handles every dragon save garchomp and dialga. Dialga is uber and garchomp is handled by giga drain after a growth.
Credit for this particular set goes to Benlisted. The speed EVs allow me to outspeed even things like scarf latios, although I suppose I can reduce them a bit.

*Changes as of 1/28/11*: Giga drain was illegal on this set due to being an egg move and all dream world bulbasuars being male. So I replaced it with energy ball after failing with petal dance. I must say, it just isn't the same anymore. He doesn't beat out things that he used to, such as blissey, chansey, healthy porygon2, dusclops, dusknoir, etc. Now he's just a bulky chloro sweeper that lacks the ability to stick around for very long, and absolutely needs growth in order to have any presence, and usually isn't too strong to sweep. I'm planning on redoing the set and ditching life orb. Maybe subseed growth with hp fire or sludge bomb? Not too sure. I don't want to outright replace him with Victreebel if he can still be useful.

Threats I've noticed
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Heatran: Specifically balloon heatran. Without the balloon, he's no longer a problem now that garchomp is back.

Blaziken: Jumpluff still outruns Blaziken after two speed boosts. I switch in on the sword's dance and encore it or protect. Or I bait it into using hi-jump kick when its weakened if I haven't revealed protect on ninetales yet.

Urgamoth: Thankfully, I haven't been seeing him lately. Should he become popular again, I'm thinking of going with LO Arcanine as Extremespeed KOs after stealth rock damage. Houndoom would work too if he didn't have a heatran weakness.

Tyranitar: A huge nuisance, nuetering forry with Fire Blast and such, or forcing Jumpluff out with scarfed Ice Beams. Blaziken being here helps out a lot though. As does Garchomp.

 

[MajorGambit]

Since you're playing Dreamworld, I strongly recommend you to use either custap berry or shed shell on your Forry, so he is not completely useless against Shandy, which will outspeed and either leave it a 1 HP or OHKO it if it has taken any damage. With custap you can't surprise it with a KO from earthquake or switch thanks to volt change (if it packs balloon). Shed Shell can be used for a free sun turn with Ninetales since its SpD bulkiness will absorve Overheat well...

 

[alphatron]

Well, I switched over to the standard ladder, but when I go back to DW I never forget to put my shed shell on forry. From experience switching Ninetales into sun boosted scarf/specs overheat shandera never worked out too well. So I simply carry a flash fire pokemon when playing in DW.

 

[Benlisted]

Opened this without realizing it was your team, so I was like :D, and even more so at my mention in the Venusaur part ^_^! Anyway, onto advice.

Your Forry looks pretty good, since you switch the items on him when going to DW. The one consideration I'd make is Gyro Ball over EQ, with the respective Spe IVs and Nature. The main reasons I have for this are Forry's weak attack, so he needs the STAB to do any real damage, and the prevelance of Balloons, making him forced to use RS first in order to be able to do any damage (Often dying in the process). He can use GB to hit TTar nicely, as well as anything trying to set up speed boosts on him (with hilarious results). I've tried both and feel Gyro Ball was more effective, so give it a shot.

For Latios, Surf would work wonders dealing with Heatran if not for its nerfing in Sun :/. One thing to try could be running Sazandora for either FB or the ability to use HP Ground/Fight thanks to having access to Fire moves, but you ofc lose the excellent Psycho Shock and Trick. U-Turn could help the Blissey issue, however, especially with Blaziken in the wings to threaten.

For Jumpluff, I wouldn't go for Worry Seed since you have Encore. With it he can still beat Blaziken if he gets in safely, anything trying to setup can be Encored and switched out of to a counter (Sazandora could help deal with your threats with Dark Pulse/HP Ice). Aromatherapy is somewhat useful since you have nothing but Forry and Tales who doesn't mind being sacced to status, but Memento is amazing in it's own right too. I'd say its up to you - does Memento help you get a game-winning sweep or crucial switchin more often than Aromatherapy heals something crucial to win the game?

Good to see your trademark Tales set :D, I still like to use the brilliantly gimmicky Protect/Disable/Power Swap one lol. Perhaps add your SPAtk Evs, or some of them, to HP in order to be more tanky? Disable over WoW is the only other change I would even consider, but I'm sure you had your reasons.

For Blaziken I would recommend the following set: Blaziken@Wide Lens, with your choice of nature and 252/252 EVs. Blaze Kick, Hi-Jump Kick, SE/Shadow Claw, and SD. I believe it was proven in the Blaziken thread that this set achieves higher damage output than the Claw Sharpen one after a SD, as well as having the almost perfect accuracy without having to boost. LO Recoil is gone too. Blaze Kick in Sun is very adequate to take out most things, hits off its higher Atk, gets SD boosts, and has better PP, so I recommend it over Fire Blast.

For Venusaur don't change a thing B). Haha nah, if you choose Aromatherapy over Memento you have more reason to run a mixed set if you so choose, having a cure for Burns you may acquire off friendly Jellyfish, but I wouldn't go for it myself, if you can solve your Heatran issues. Also, consider the extra EVs in SpDef to allow him to take things like Burungeru's attacks better as you come in and set up, as his Defence is lesser anyway and you do have Forry to take Physical stuff. Not much of an issue anyway.

Heatran is a douche when you don't have a Flash Fire user, my only suggestion would be to try one over Blaziken if you really need one. Sazandora should be able to help you out with him though if you try him out, and running EQ on Venu if you choose to go mixed may assist you there too.

Blaziken, eugh, he's very difficult to deal with. With clever plays and saccing either Venu or Jum at worst you should be able to take him, however, since they outspeed at various Boost Levels and can KO or Encore. He's just very hard to beat if you mispredict (ie he uses Protect at a bad time).

Ulgamoth can be a pain, I like to run Priority to help me with him. I guess the ideal thing to do is make sure SR is down if you see one, and get Jumpluff to Encore him for you.

You could try Arcanine over Blaziken for Flash fire, Extremespeed and CC, helping you take all your threats out, but I don't want to turn your team into mine XD. Infernape functions in a similar way with Mach Punch, in fact, so he is an option too (but not as good VS Ulgamoth).

Anyway hope I've been of some use :).

 

[alphatron]

Your Forry looks pretty good, since you switch the items on him when going to DW. The one consideration I'd make is Gyro Ball over EQ, with the respective Spe IVs and Nature. The main reasons I have for this are Forry's weak attack, so he needs the STAB to do any real damage, and the prevelance of Balloons, making him forced to use RS first in order to be able to do any damage (Often dying in the process). He can use GB to hit TTar nicely, as well as anything trying to set up speed boosts on him (with hilarious results). I've tried both and feel Gyro Ball was more effective, so give it a shot.

You're right. Earthquake against non-balloon heatrans (which are incredibly rare nowadays) wasn't even an ohko, and usually just resulted in me losing my forry. Gyro ball it is! I'll have to be more careful about leaving forry in when magnezone is around, but I'm honestly not too worried.

For Latios, Surf would work wonders dealing with Heatran if not for its nerfing in Sun :/. One thing to try could be running Sazandora for either FB or the ability to use HP Ground/Fight thanks to having access to Fire moves, but you ofc lose the excellent Psycho Shock and Trick. U-Turn could help the Blissey issue, however, especially with Blaziken in the wings to threaten.

Although Latios has been a real bro, a scarf sazandora would help with many things. I used to run a specs one, but gave up after getting constantly outrun...but the scarf set should work out generally well. Focus blast, Draco meteor, Fire Blast, and Dark pulse then? As far as Latios and surf is concerned, that's perhaps the biggest downside to using sun...Hilariously, I once saw an enemy mixed DD Latios running EQ and when I asked my opponent why, he said it was to deal with Heatran. Hehe...

For Ninetales, I had honestly been considering investing in bulk for quite some time. Kept forgetting to do so though. Will-o-wisp I carried so that boosting pokemon could be left crippled, but its rather unreliable. Missing the turn my opponent puts up a substitute...and a crapload of chesto rest pokemon I've had the misfortune of seeing.

As for jumpluff, there was once a time where I ended up running worry seed out of spite. Not just for ability users...I once lost to an Evo Stone Chesto Rest Shelgon with dragon dance(to be fair no sun was up). On another ocassion, a chesto rest dragon dance crawdaunt (I mean, what the hell?). Those things aren't very common though.So for this team, I'll cut worry seed out and run momento instead. Aromatherapy is mainly something I wish I had when I see Erufuun and that electric genie running around.

For Blaziken I would recommend the following set: Blaziken@Wide Lens, with your choice of nature and 252/252 EVs. Blaze Kick, Hi-Jump Kick, SE/Shadow Claw, and SD. I believe it was proven in the Blaziken thread that this set achieves higher damage output than the Claw Sharpen one after a SD, as well as having the almost perfect accuracy without having to boost. LO Recoil is gone too. Blaze Kick in Sun is very adequate to take out most things, hits off its higher Atk, gets SD boosts, and has better PP, so I recommend it over Fire Blast

I...didn't know that...Consider me another person to jump off the claw sharpen bandwagon.

On this particular team, I've ran Arcanine about 3 or 4 different times, (and at one point houndoom). I'm aware of just how useful he can be. He's off the team now because I wanted to see what I could work best with. Infernape, I'm not too sure about.

Thanks for the comments! I'll update this team later today most likely, and perhaps add sprites to the first post.

 

[Benlisted]

You're right. Earthquake against non-balloon heatrans (which are incredibly rare nowadays) wasn't even an ohko, and usually just resulted in me losing my forry. Gyro ball it is! I'll have to be more careful about leaving forry in when magnezone is around, but I'm honestly not too worried.

Well, when playing in DW you should be fine since Maggy is more uncommon and you'll have Shed Shell anyway. If you see one on the preview in standard, then I tend to simply spam Volt Change after using Forry to take a hit until I've rid myself of it. Sturdy can save you from it as well. In any case, U-turning to Tales as a Maggy comes in is rather amusing.

Although Latios has been a real bro, a scarf sazandora would help with many things. I used to run a specs one, but gave up after getting constantly outrun...but the scarf set should work out generally well. Focus blast, Draco meteor, Fire Blast, and Dark pulse then? As far as Latios and surf is concerned, that's perhaps the biggest downside to using sun...Hilariously, I once saw an enemy mixed DD Latios running EQ and when I asked my opponent why, he said it was to deal with Heatran. Hehe...

Yeah I think the extra speed could prove useful for certain. U-Turn would be very nice to squeeze on there somewhere so Blisseys don't lol at you (the only place really is over Dark Pulse), but its a hard choice, see how it goes.

I...didn't know that...Consider me another person to jump off the claw sharpen bandwagon.

On this particular team, I've ran Arcanine about 3 or 4 different times, (and at one point houndoom). I'm aware of just how useful he can be. He's off the team now because I wanted to see what I could work best with. Infernape, I'm not too sure about.

Thanks for the comments! I'll update this team later today most likely, and perhaps add sprites to the first post.

Haha yeah, it does have the disadvantage of slightly less power off the bat due to no LO, but that's about it. Since the whole point of Blaziken is to boost like a mofo, however, that should be a non-issue.

Yeah, he is pretty good thanks to his reasonable bulk and Extremespeed is lovely. Infernape I used before I found out about Arcanine's new moves, but he performed well as a late game cleaner, surprisingly, if the opponent took out both my chlorophyllers. Anyway fair play, makes sense to try out Sazandora and see how you are for taking Fire hits. How was Houndoom for you? I've never tried it this Gen.

 

[GtM]

I'd highly recommend switching out Sludge Bomb for Earthquake on your Venusaur, since Growth also boosts your attack and makes a mixed set more viable. Sludge Bomb has redundant coverage with your other moves and whilst the base power is nice, being able to go mixed against Blissey and hit Heatran with Earthquake is much better.

Alternatively if you wanted to handle Dragons then you could run Victreebel with Growth / Giga Drain / Weather Ball (Fire) / Hidden Power Ice who has much stronger special attacks but sacrifices bulk.

 

[Benlisted]

I'd highly recommend switching out Sludge Bomb for Earthquake on your Venusaur, since Growth also boosts your attack and makes a mixed set more viable. Sludge Bomb has redundant coverage with your other moves and whilst the base power is nice, being able to go mixed against Blissey and hit Heatran with Earthquake is much better.

Alternatively if you wanted to handle Dragons then you could run Victreebel with Growth / Giga Drain / Weather Ball (Fire) / Hidden Power Ice who has much stronger special attacks but sacrifices bulk.

For a long time I ran the mixed Venu set, and I really prefer the soleley special set. It isn't superior or anything, ofc not, but I'll explain the reasons why I prefer it. Having a non-mixed set lets you setup on all Burungeru and to an extent Tentacruel whilst not being bothered by Burn at all. Sludge Bomb's SE coverage is awful but its neutral isn't bad at all - with it the prime thing walling Venu is Heatran and only Heatran, which can be dealth with by other members.

Sludge Bomb lets you hit the part Flying Dragons, Latis and Sazandora for heavy neutral damage especially after a Growth, whilst without it you cannot touch any of them. Moreover, since EQ is primarily there for Heatran/Blissey, BalloonTran which is now common royally screws you over. Blissey can also be dealt with by Growthing up and Giga Draining to recover as long as they lack T-Wave.

Victreebel is a tad frail unfortunately, and due to Sludge Bomb's neutral coverage on the Dragons you may as well use Venusaur's better bulk and be able to take a lot of them on just as well due to having STAB on Poison moves. Vic's special atk is identical to Venusaurs and its Spe lower meaning you have to invest in it more, so Venusaur will likely end up with more powerful hits in general in any case (excepting Weather Ball's higher BP, which is a great boon).

 

[alphatron]

Team has been updated. Still no pictures though.

 

[Benlisted]

My only other advice would be to take a look at the Ninetales analysis in the C+C forum, where they've put up a Defensive ChestoRest Tales who can heal herself twice before sitting around as a sun setting lump (asleep) - which is actually more recovery potential than most weather setters. Dropping Balloon for it wouldn't be too bad, since you have a ground immune in Pluff, though it can cause you issues with being putsuited unless you predict well with WoW, should you choose to run that.

 

[alphatron]

Still no pictures, but I've posted an updated version of the team. Balloon is still on Ninetales to avoid entry hazards other than SR. Thinking of altering Jumpluff's speed EVs to outrun the fighting legendary trio outside of sun.