Pokémon Staraptor

[Antihaxxer]

Isn't Life Orb better ? I know that Staraptor has some problems with Recoil moves, but it can still use Roost too. And for me Staraptor opens the path of sweeping for Talonflame, so he needs to be able to switch move

Something like that


[Life Orb Staraptor]
Ability : Reckless
Item : Life Orb
Nature : Jolly
EVS : 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

Brave Bird
Close Combat
Double Edge
Roost

 

[alexwolf]

If you go with Life Orb + Roost, your only option is to use an Adamant nature, as otherwise you can't 2HKO physically defensive Hippowdon, which is unacceptable.

 

[JackTheGordie]

If you go with Life Orb + Roost, your only option is to use an Adamant nature, as otherwise you can't 2HKO physically defensive Hippowdon, which is unacceptable.

Isn't hippo REALLY low in usage right now? I use one alot so it's still as wallish as ever and idk why no one uses him but yeah. I see the point your making, using him as a benchmark, but are there some KO's that Jolly LO Raptor doesn't get that Adamant does on some OU mons?

 

[alexwolf]

Isn't hippo REALLY low in usage right now? I use one alot so it's still as wallish as ever and idk why no one uses him but yeah. I see the point your making, using him as a benchmark, but are there some KO's that Jolly LO Raptor doesn't get that Adamant does on some OU mons?

I am sure there are, but Hippowdon is one of the best physical walls in OU, as well as the best sand inducer to use with Pokemon such as Sand Rush Excadrill and Mega Garchomp, so it sees a lot of use high on the ladder, on all kinds of teams. Having a dedicated physical wallbreaker that can't break past one of the best physical walls in OU is kinda pointless don't you think?

 

[Mood4food77]

well if you're using it with CB talonflame, the speed issue isn't as big of a deal, he's meant to break walls and base 100 is just fast enough to do so

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 345-406 (113.4 - 133.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 252-297 (82.8 - 97.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 386-456 (100 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 382-450 (106.7 - 125.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 324-382 (90.5 - 106.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 736-868 (103 - 121.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 235-277 (55.9 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 237-279 (66.9 - 78.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
etc.

What I'm getting at is using adamant CB staraptor makes the opponents job that much harder to switch into you especially when you got the best revenge killer in the game backing you up who is guaranteed to finish those pokes off if you don't manage the OHKO. Outside of some gimmicky stuff (like scarf heatran or something) you should have no fear of being slower than most, besides the things that you are slower than you can't beat anyways, even those that you speed tie with, only mega chomp, lucario, and genesect being relevant things that you want to outrun but you got this guy at your back

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Lucario: 262-309 (93.2 - 109.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Lucario: 524-618 (186.4 - 219.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Genesect: 273-322 (96.4 - 113.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

they are not switching in outside of revenge killing but that's why you got 4 other members of the team, some of those OHKOs don't happen if you don't run adamant on the CB set which i feel would be more important than running speed especially when you got the fastest thing alive in talonflame to back you up

 

[TaBuu]

I, too, was originally an advocate of Adamant Nature being slashed first ; however, the arguments for Jolly made sense to me. What do you guys think?

 

[Mood4food77]

both natures are definitely viable, don't get me wrong

but it should be adamant/jolly on both sets

 

[bwebber]

I'd go Adamant. Staraptor is way too frail to be going against offensive Pokemon (the only kind that reside in the 100 speed tier), so max out the power to be able to take down defensive 'mons.

 

[haunter]

The only Pokémon in the 90-100 Spe tier that usually run a boosting nature are: Charizard, some Manaphy, Salamence, Genesect, Lucario. Of the aforementioned Pokémon: Salamence is rarely seen nowadays and is mostly scarfed, Genesect also usually runs a scarf, while outspeeding Lucario is trivial since no Lucario would attempt to set up on Staraptor and, anyway, you can outsepeed it only in the turn it mega evolves.

Any other relevant Pokémon that you could theoretically outspeed or speed tie with by running a +Spe nature usually runs a +Atk (Victini, Kyurem-B, Landorus-T, Haxorus etc.) or a +SpA nature (Kyurem-B, Hydreigon, Volcarona). Unless you plan on revenge killing these Pokemon with CB Staraptor, then I don't see the need to give up 33 Atk points on something that is supposed to wallbreak and favor CB Talonflame's sweep. Jolly CB Raptor has an effective 508 Atk stat, adamant has 558.

I suppose it mostly depends on what Staraptor's role is into your team, but if you're using it as a wallbreaker, then I believe adamant is the way to go.

 

[Truce]

The only Pokémon in the 90-100 Spe tier that usually run a boosting nature are: Charizard, some Manaphy, Salamence, Genesect, Lucario. Of the aforementioned Pokémon: Salamence is rarely seen nowadays and is mostly scarfed, Genesect also usually runs a scarf, while outspeeding Lucario is trivial since no Lucario would attempt to set up on Staraptor and, anyway, you can outsepeed it only in the turn it mega evolves.

Any other relevant Pokémon that you could theoretically outspeed or speed tie with by running a +Spe nature usually runs a +Atk (Victini, Kyurem-B, Landorus-T, Haxorus etc.) or a +SpA nature (Kyurem-B, Hydreigon, Volcarona). Unless you plan on revenge killing these Pokemon with CB Staraptor, then I don't see the need to give up 33 Atk points on something that is supposed to wallbreak and favor CB Talonflame's sweep. Jolly CB Raptor has an effective 508 Atk stat, adamant has 558.

I suppose it mostly depends on what Staraptor's role is into your team, but if you're using it as a wallbreaker, then I believe adamant is the way to go.

That's a good point - while the base 100 speed tier used to be something people had to run a boosting nature at in fear of losing too many speed ties, this gen it seems you could get away with running neutral speed. However, I was curious of what is inbetween those speeds, as you drop from 328 all the way to 299. I looked it up on a speed tier generated from the December stats (hence Kangaskhan's brief appearance), and outlined the two speeds you could be at in green and cyan.

The ones I think are the most troublesome include Genesect, which is certainly popular enough with LO or ebelt, as the shade of red indicates frequency of that specific speed out of all Pokemon you run in to. Letting Lucario mega evolve on you and use Ice Punch might hinder your momentum, but Haunter already addressed how that isn't too relevant. If you plan to lead with Staraptor to chip Deoxys-D with a U-turn, perhaps its worth running a +nature so they don't Thunder Wave you before you get out, but of course most Deoxys just go for hazards as soon as possible. Garchomp, Excadrill, and Landorus also make enough of an appearance but I believe the more dangerous Garchomp and Landorus are those with a +speed nature.

So Genesect and Excadrill are the only things on the ladder I can see making it worth running +speed to kill. If you're wallbreaking for a Talonflame, you have fire moves to deal with those steel types. Mega Pinsir would be forced out if you don't have Close Combat and they have a Balloon intact on Excadrill, but perhaps that scenario is mangeable enough for you to justify running neutral speed.

 

[alexwolf]

Staraptor is already struggling to find time to switch in and launch attacks. Not getting forced out by Pokemon such as Manaphy, Mega Lucario before it MEvolves, Charizard, KYUREM-B, and Gensect which you have scouted that aren't Scarf, is incredibly useful, especially for offensive teams. Staraptor often comes in with double switches, and facing one of those Pokemon on a double switch with Adamant sucks. Furthermore, the extra power from Adamant doesn't net any additional OHKO/2HKO, so it's mostly superfluous and a luxury.

Outspeeding lead Deo-D is another big advantage.

 

[Mood4food77]

Staraptor is already struggling to find time to switch in and launch attacks. Not getting forced out by Pokemon such as Manaphy, Mega Lucario before it MEvolves, Charizard, KYUREM-B, and Gensect which you have scouted that aren't Scarf, is incredibly useful, especially for offensive teams. Staraptor often comes in with double switches, and facing one of those Pokemon on a double switch with Adamant sucks. Furthermore, the extra power from Adamant doesn't net any additional OHKO/2HKO, so it's mostly superfluous and a luxury.

Outspeeding lead Deo-D is another big advantage.

252+ Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 386-456 (100 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 352-416 (91.1 - 107.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

while this may seem trivial, this is one of the biggest threats to talonflame, who you are most likely running staraptor with so always nabbing the OHKO even when SR is off the field is pretty important

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 243-286 (79.9 - 94%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 220-261 (72.3 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

deo-d is still going to twave you anyways, might as well risk the OHKO chance with SR going adamant

nothing wants to switch into staraptor, even more so when adamant and using adamant pretty much ensures that everything will be in revenge kill range for talonflame to do clean up, even if you outspeed those threats, you probably won't beat them, might as well make them think twice about switching in

also, adamant cb staraptor has a chance to OHKO rotom-w, no other set can claim this
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 252-297 (82.8 - 97.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

[alexwolf]

252+ Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 386-456 (100 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 352-416 (91.1 - 107.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

while this may seem trivial, this is one of the biggest threats to talonflame, who you are most likely running staraptor with so always nabbing the OHKO even when SR is off the field is pretty important

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 243-286 (79.9 - 94%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 220-261 (72.3 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

deo-d is still going to twave you anyways, might as well risk the OHKO chance with SR going adamant

nothing wants to switch into staraptor, even more so when adamant and using adamant pretty much ensures that everything will be in revenge kill range for talonflame to do clean up, even if you outspeed those threats, you probably won't beat them, might as well make them think twice about switching in

also, adamant cb staraptor has a chance to OHKO rotom-w, no other set can claim this
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 252-297 (82.8 - 97.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Heatran will never stay in against Staraptor 1 v 1, unless it has Protect to scout, and if it sees Close Combat it will still switch out, so this calc is meaningless.

Not all Deo-D use Thunder Wave, and against those who don't, you can limit them to only 1 layer of hazards. Or you can just use U-turn if you predict Thunder Wave and go to your Sheer Force Landorus or Life Orb Garchomp to OHKO the next turn, preventing Deo-D from getting any hazards up. With Adamant, Deo-D gets to set up one layer of hazards at worst against you.

The Rotom-W calc is your only really useful example of Adamant, as with SR up, you have a big chance to OHKO it in a 1 v 1 scenario.

However, the 1 v 1 scenarios you win with Jolly are much more than the 1 v 1 scenarios you win with Adamant, and more important, while losing basically no wallbreaking power at all (you still 2HKO everything slower and OHKO anything faster, aside from Aegislash and Skarmory which counter you no matter what).

Unless you really struggle vs Rotom-W and have no safe switch-ins to it, Jolly is the best option.

 

[Enrique]

Hello, could someone please explain to me why the 4 leftover EVs are invested into defense and not HP? I've seen them invested in the same way on Talonflame sets so I feel like there must be a good reason for it, but can't figure out why.

I realize the question is pretty off-topic and I apologize for that :^)

 

[Jukain]

Hello, could someone please explain to me why the 4 leftover EVs are invested into defense and not HP? I've seen them invested in the same way on Talonflame sets so I feel like there must be a good reason for it, but can't figure out why.

I realize the question is pretty off-topic and I apologize for that :^)

If you invest 4 EVs into HP, Staraptor reaches a 312 HP stat. This stat is divisible by 4, and thus takes exactly 1/4 of its health from Stealth Rock. Its min HP is 311, which is not divisible by 4. With this stat, Staraptor takes ~24% from SR, which is better for it.

 

[Mood4food77]

dumping the EVs into HP gives you an even number stat for HP, meaning that 4 switch-ins to SR kills staraptor, leaving them out gives you 5 switch-ins to SR (or something like that)

EDIT: greninja'd

 

[Enrique]

If you invest 4 EVs into HP, Staraptor reaches a 312 HP stat. This stat is divisible by 4, and thus takes exactly 1/4 of its health from Stealth Rock. Its min HP is 311, which is not divisible by 4. With this stat, Staraptor takes ~24% from SR, which is better for it.

dumping the EVs into HP gives you an even number stat for HP, meaning that 4 switch-ins to SR kills staraptor, leaving them out gives you 5 switch-ins to SR (or something like that)

EDIT: greninja'd

Thank you for the almost instant replies, I figured it had to do something about the amount of times switching into SR.

However I only play wifi and was looking at the HP values at level 50. Min is 160, so I guess in that case I'm better off running 4 HP EVs.

 

[VanGru]

The only Pokémon in the 90-100 Spe tier that usually run a boosting nature are: Charizard, some Manaphy, Salamence, Genesect, Lucario. Of the aforementioned Pokémon: Salamence is rarely seen nowadays and is mostly scarfed, Genesect also usually runs a scarf, while outspeeding Lucario is trivial since no Lucario would attempt to set up on Staraptor and, anyway, you can outsepeed it only in the turn it mega evolves.

Any other relevant Pokémon that you could theoretically outspeed or speed tie with by running a +Spe nature usually runs a +Atk (Victini, Kyurem-B, Landorus-T, Haxorus etc.) or a +SpA nature (Kyurem-B, Hydreigon, Volcarona). Unless you plan on revenge killing these Pokemon with CB Staraptor, then I don't see the need to give up 33 Atk points on something that is supposed to wallbreak and favor CB Talonflame's sweep. Jolly CB Raptor has an effective 508 Atk stat, adamant has 558.

I suppose it mostly depends on what Staraptor's role is into your team, but if you're using it as a wallbreaker, then I believe adamant is the way to go.

If you use Starraptor it should always wallbreak, there are way too many faster pokemon running around. Especially if you use the double bird offensive core, staraptor should be adamant.

 

[Lee]

Tip for maverick players...Staraptor only needs 52 HP EVs to OHKO Aegislash (324 HP) with Final Gambit.

Very, very niche move but I don't like U-turn on this guy. U-turn is such a great attack that we're all conditioned to slap it on anything that learns it. If I go to the trouble of getting this guy in I sure as hell don't wanna just U-turn out again when I can just nuke shit with those 216BP attacks or use Close Combat on Rocks/Steels.

 

[alexwolf]

Tip for maverick players...Staraptor only needs 52 HP EVs to OHKO Aegislash (324 HP) with Final Gambit.

Very, very niche move but I don't like U-turn on this guy. U-turn is such a great attack that we're all conditioned to slap it on anything that learns it. If I go to the trouble of getting this guy in I sure as hell don't wanna just U-turn out again when I can just nuke shit with those 216BP attacks or use Close Combat on Rocks/Steels.

Aegislash is immune to Final Gambit, but it's nice to fuck up Skarmory, assuming you lead with Staraptor. I agree that U-turn is not that good on Staraptor. It's only use is against teams with Aegislash and Skarmory, and even then, you can 2HKO mixed Aegislash with Brave Bird after SR, so U-turn's use is extremely limited. On the other hand, Quick Attack lets you do something useful late-game, where Staraptor has served its wallbreaking purpose and has almost killed itself from recoil, and it's not weak either:

- 252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Quick Attack vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Thundurus: 124-147 (41.3 - 49%)

 

[Lee]

lol wtf is wrong with me, scrap Final Gambit in that case. I agree Quick Attack is probably the best option in that slot.

 

[noivern]

Adamant works well with sticky web

 

[BeatScrafty2]

Adamant works well with sticky web

Assuming your opponent doesn't run a bunch of levitate and or flying types.

 

[JayHankEdLyon]

Assuming your opponent doesn't run a bunch of levitate and or flying types.

Or Defog, or Rapid Spin.

 

[TaiCrunch]

I prefer Roost over Double-Edge, is there a problem with that?

Not at all. It's good reliable recovery.