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Data State of the Game - 07/10/2011 (Huge Stat Announcement)
- Thread starter Deck Knight
- Start date
- Status
BTW, here's the description of Copycat:
Copycat: The Pokemon thinks about the last attack and repeats it exactly, duplicating the attack. It will have the same target as the move that it is copying. This move will fail if Copycat is the first move used in the battle, the last used move was Copycat, or the attack requires more energy than the user has. Charge-up actions and priority are ignored for a move copied by Copycat; all of its effects execute immediately when Copycat is used. (eg. If Copycat copies Revenge, it executes immediately. Likewise, if it copies Sky Attack, both the charge and the damage happen at once, and thus the move cannot be stopped by multi-hit attacks)
By this description, Copycat is actually fairly useless due to this clause. Since most positive effects will hit the enemy and most negative effects will hit YOU, you're basically duplicating the enemy's action.
While I assume this is a typo, can Deck please clarify this?
Copycat: The Pokemon thinks about the last attack and repeats it exactly, duplicating the attack. It will have the same target as the move that it is copying. This move will fail if Copycat is the first move used in the battle, the last used move was Copycat, or the attack requires more energy than the user has. Charge-up actions and priority are ignored for a move copied by Copycat; all of its effects execute immediately when Copycat is used. (eg. If Copycat copies Revenge, it executes immediately. Likewise, if it copies Sky Attack, both the charge and the damage happen at once, and thus the move cannot be stopped by multi-hit attacks)
By this description, Copycat is actually fairly useless due to this clause. Since most positive effects will hit the enemy and most negative effects will hit YOU, you're basically duplicating the enemy's action.
While I assume this is a typo, can Deck please clarify this?
That Copycat is me being an idiot. A few weeks ago, I talked with Deck and we fixed the mechanics of ASB Copycat so that it was accurate, but when I rewrote it I accidentally wrote it incorrectly. Copycat in-game doesn't copy the target of the move, it lets you choose a new target, and that's how it should operate in ASB. Sorry for the confusion!
From the sounds of it, freeze is now just full freeze that lasts either 1 or 2 turns.
You can still try and use RP-like actions of freeze, just be aware that since it brings in non-statistical factors like proximity and accuracy that it might not always work out the way you want it to.
I'd like to suggest two changes which aren't strictly to do with battles:
-Allow people to post in threads that aren't theirs before they are over, with the exception of some roleplay threads.
I like to think that this wouldn't be a huge problem, but would foster the community spirit and encourage people to check out other games. I know that before I have wanted to post in other games to congratulate people or such, and I don't think it would get out of hand. It would be like battles on PO, where many people can come in to watch and comment on big battles.
-Add the possibility of giving away/deleting weak Pokemon in the trading thread.
I know that I, as well as others, have those Pokemon that we really don't actually plan to raise, and they just serve as clutter in rego posts. It would be good to be able to 'release' Pokemon in the thread and to keep a record of it, just so that everything can still be tracked.
-Allow people to post in threads that aren't theirs before they are over, with the exception of some roleplay threads.
I like to think that this wouldn't be a huge problem, but would foster the community spirit and encourage people to check out other games. I know that before I have wanted to post in other games to congratulate people or such, and I don't think it would get out of hand. It would be like battles on PO, where many people can come in to watch and comment on big battles.
-Add the possibility of giving away/deleting weak Pokemon in the trading thread.
I know that I, as well as others, have those Pokemon that we really don't actually plan to raise, and they just serve as clutter in rego posts. It would be good to be able to 'release' Pokemon in the thread and to keep a record of it, just so that everything can still be tracked.
I agree with both of these things. I must say, I wouldn't be surprised if someone important is majorly against both of them. I could understand someone not liking the first one for whatever reason. But I do think that the second one should be allowed. You should be able to take a Pokemon off of someone's hands if they don't want it by paying several TC (either to the owner or paying them to nothing). Maybe it could be something like the amount of TC you have to pay is:
TC cost to get the first stage of the evolution line + (extra moves it has learned / 3) + ((EC + DC)/2), rounding up.
So let's give a scenario (I actually still want my Lairon):
I don't want this Lairon:
Lairon [Heavy Head] (Male)
Nature: Careful (+ to Special Defense, - from Special Attack)
Type: Rock/Steel
Rock: Rock STAB; Take 2 less damage from all special attacks during Sandstorm. Able to use Sand Tomb without losing focus.
Steel: Steel STAB; Immune to Sandstorm, highly insusceptible to toxic attacks, but can be corroded specifically by Acid and Acid Spray, can be magnetized. Superior senses in high-metal environments like construction sites or factories.
Abilities:
Ability 1: Sturdy
Type: Innate
This Pokemon’s body is solidly constructed, reducing the Base Attack Power from an opponents incoming attacks by one (1). The effect is amplified on OHKO Moves, which are reduced by ten (10) Base Attack Power.
Ability 2: Rock Head
Type: Innate
This Pokemon’s hard body prevents it from taking recoil damage from moves such as Double-Edge, Flare Blitz, and Head Smash.
Ability 3: Heavy Metal (DW)
Type:Innate
The Pokemon's body structure is immensely dense, doubling its weight. When it uses a full-body attack or a weight-based attack it will do more damage, and it will be much harder to lift, throw, or knock back.
Stats:
HP: 90
Atk: Rank 3
Def: Rank 5
SpA: Rank 1 (-)
SpD: Rank 3 (+)
Spe: 40
EC: 8/9
MC: 0
DC: 0/5
Attacks:
Tackle
Harden
Mud-Slap
Headbutt
Metal Claw
Iron Defense
Roar
Take Down
Curse
Head Smash
Iron Head
Earthquake
Shadow Claw
Rock Slide
So the equation is as follows: 2+(0/3)+((8+0)/2) = 6. So someone who wants this has to pay 6 TC, so there are absolutely no *free* giveaways. Or, someone could give me a Pokemon they just got for 2 TC, but put no counters into, and pay an extra 4 TC. Let's look at, I don't know, Charmander's Cyclohm. Yes, the guy who everyone tried to trade a Weedle to.
Cyclohm* [Cloud] (M)
Nature: Modest
Type:
Electric: Electric STAB; 50% reduction in paralysis chance from other electrical attacks, perfect accuracy and 30% chance of Protect breaking Thunder during Rain.
Dragon: Dragon STAB; Roar has Energy Cost reduced by one (1).
Stats:
HP: 110
Atk: Rank 1 (-)
Def: Rank 4
SpA: Rank 5 (+)
SpD: Rank 3
Spe: 80
EC: 9/9
MC: 1
DC: 5/5
Abilities:
Shield Dust: (Innate) This Pokemon has dust covering the outside of its body that prevents opponents secondary effects from taking place (eg burn from Flamethrower). It does not block direct status moves (such as Thunder Wave.)
Static: (Innate) This Pokemon’s body is surrounded by an electric field that has a 30% chance of paralyzing opponents that use contact moves on this Pokemon.
Sheer Force (DW): (Can be Enabled) This Pokemon can energize all its attacks with secondary effect chances less than 100%. When Enabled, the Base Attack Power of every move with an effect chance less than 100% increases by two (2), but they will never have a secondary effect
Attacks:
Tackle*
Growl*
Leer*
Charge*
Rain Dance*
Twister*
Spark*
Dragon Rage*
SonicBoom*
Weather Ball
Whirlwind
Bide
Gale
Zap Cannon
Slack Off
Double Hit
Signal Beam*
Hydro Pump*
Heal Bell*
Magnet Rise
Thunder*
Flamethrower*
Roar*
Hidden Power [Ground] (7)
Dragon Pulse
Taunt
Substitute
Thunder Wave
Double Team
Fire Blast
Draco Meteor
2+(16/3)+((9+5)/2) = 14.333, rounds up to 15 TC. So, again, it is not so easy to get one's unwanted Pokemon, and at the same time, they won't go unused. Thoughts, opinions?
I agree with these ideas, however, I do have concerns with the first idea, as allowing users to post in a battle that they're not involved in has the potential to disrupt the flow of a match, which is, iirc, the reason why the rule not allowing users to do so was introduced in the first place. If we did, the best idea would be to make the audience participate in a match, like this one (Too bad it ended the way it did...). That battle was reasonably successful imo.
The second idea is obviously a good one. You have the option to release a Pokemon in the cartridge, so we should be able to do the same thing in CAP ASB.
RE Atheno:
The first suggestion makes sense.
The second makes no sense. Give it away if you don't want it. Releasing is just a waste.
The first suggestion makes sense.
The second makes no sense. Give it away if you don't want it. Releasing is just a waste.
I don't think you were on ASB much when Charmander left. Ask someone on IRC about it, you CANNOT give stuff away, even for a Weedle or whatever.
And now there are poor unloved weedles and caterpies out there wanting to go outside and evolve
smash, my problem was that I had something useless that I didn't want, so I have to trade it away for something else useless that I don't want? That doesn't help at all. It is easier to just be able to release them.
EDIT: RD, what are you talking about? We all know your views about giveaways.
EDIT: RD, what are you talking about? We all know your views about giveaways.
Giving away Pokemon gravely threatens the competitive balance of ASB. Consider this from another competitive ASB player's perspective. If you give one player a fully evolved Pokemon or even something not fully evolved, you are effectively making them stronger at zero cost to themselves. Meanwhile, everyone else is just as strong as they were before. This nets the effect that you're buffing whichever trainers are lucky enough to get your freebies, and is competitive unfair for the players you're not giving anything to. It is for this reason, this blatant unfairness, that I can never support giveaways in ASB. It should be a fair or at least reasonably fair trade or no dice.
I have no qualms with a person releasing a Pokemon, however, as that doesn't unbalance the competitiveness of ASB in any way that hurts other players arbitrarily. It only hurts the player who is making the conscious decision to hurt himself, and that's something I am not morally opposed to here.
I have no qualms with a person releasing a Pokemon, however, as that doesn't unbalance the competitiveness of ASB in any way that hurts other players arbitrarily. It only hurts the player who is making the conscious decision to hurt himself, and that's something I am not morally opposed to here.
Dusk: ...If such giveaways become popular, why not enforce a cap on getting a certain number of giveaway mons in a month before other users can have access?
It's giving other players an advantage for no work, yes-but how does that effect competitive balance? Player balance will always be lopsided in favor of the most active members and older members, but competitive balance has more to do with "are there any broken strategies, why are they broken, and how do we fix them?"
It's giving other players an advantage for no work, yes-but how does that effect competitive balance? Player balance will always be lopsided in favor of the most active members and older members, but competitive balance has more to do with "are there any broken strategies, why are they broken, and how do we fix them?"
One thing that bugs me:
Using attacks when you don't have the energy to excecute them, while this is hardly an issue since many attacks do about 10 damage, now with the combos being more common this will only become more of an issue, using explosion or a big combo (or even an attack) when you are low in energy shouldn't be allowed since clearly you don't have the strenghts to actualy attack
Using a Head Smash + Head Smash combo when you have 10 energy shouldn't be allowed since really it doesn't even make sense and it will give a last and sometimes overly powerful last blow, I could just use a SE+SE attack combo (maybe even with priority) to completely kill my opponent and then just faint due to energy exhaustion, he can't do anything other than maybe protect (which you can sub), and just really destroy your opponent, not fair at all
Using attacks when you don't have the energy to excecute them, while this is hardly an issue since many attacks do about 10 damage, now with the combos being more common this will only become more of an issue, using explosion or a big combo (or even an attack) when you are low in energy shouldn't be allowed since clearly you don't have the strenghts to actualy attack
Using a Head Smash + Head Smash combo when you have 10 energy shouldn't be allowed since really it doesn't even make sense and it will give a last and sometimes overly powerful last blow, I could just use a SE+SE attack combo (maybe even with priority) to completely kill my opponent and then just faint due to energy exhaustion, he can't do anything other than maybe protect (which you can sub), and just really destroy your opponent, not fair at all
Just a quick thing, while a pokemon is using the move Fly, shouldn't it be hit by Thunderbolt if its hit by Thunder?
Thunderbolt is generally shot from the Pokemon itself directly ahead; Thunder usually comes down from the sky, which is what makes it able to hit flyers.
Damn, I need to check the StoG more often...
I OBJECT TO SLEEP!!! On Paralysis, though, that's a good idea RD. On sleep, it is now borderline useless. 1/1/2 is a horrible way to go. 1/2/3 with decay was great to me. Reason being is that 1/1/2 means that you need to get a 1/3 chance for sleep NOT to be a Protect without a variable energy cost, and without perfect accuracy. If you only land one turn of sleep, the opponent wakes up the very next turn, allowing you to dodge an action, essentially. But in order to do so, you just spent 7-10 energy, while your opponent burned no energy whatsoever. Therefore, putting something to sleep is actually a DISADVANTAGE when taking into consideration energy costs, unless you happen to get lucky. Do we really want sleep to be a disadvantage 2/3 of the time, considering how risky it already is (what with Taunt, Protect and Sub flying around, not to mention that most sleep moves have poor accuracy, high energy costs)? To me, the answer is certainly no.
considering that the "average" acc for a sleeping move is about 75-80%, kaxtar is right, 1/1/2 makes sleep have a 25% chance of being usefull, with a 25% change of failing and a 50% cange of doing nothing at all, while the 1/2/3 version was annoying, it was at least not complete crap (use the damage thing of decay and you're good to go)
with freezing i say again, it's not reliable and nobody rellies on that, having it as 2/3/4 would seriously help it considering the amount of pokes that have scald or a fire move (use another decay on here and you're probably gonna be fine)
with freezing i say again, it's not reliable and nobody rellies on that, having it as 2/3/4 would seriously help it considering the amount of pokes that have scald or a fire move (use another decay on here and you're probably gonna be fine)
C$FP a prodlem with your first idea is that the audience could say player 1 use thism move and then player 1 does use the move. It would be unfair on player 2 if player 1 got help from another player.
Also releasing a pokemon should work but as Rising Dusk explained before, giving away pokemon without trading them would affect the competitive balance of CAPASB.
Also releasing a pokemon should work but as Rising Dusk explained before, giving away pokemon without trading them would affect the competitive balance of CAPASB.
Except that it doesn't.
How does having one good Pokemon affect competitive balance at all? I have an almost-maxed out Pokemon (Almost all VG moves purchased, EC/DC filled out.) Does this destroy our entire set-up we have here? Most often, battle posters set guidelines stating if their FE or NFE Pokemon can participate; while for a tournament, almost everyone has full-power 'mons (3+), and you shouldn't even attempt a battle-centric RP with an NFE or weak-mon.
I vehemently oppose Kaxtar's movement against the changes to sleep. I have used sleep since the changes were added, and quite frankly, I think it is both very useful and finally properly balanced. I've gotten lucky and scored a 2 action sleep and reaped massive rewards, but I've also gotten 'unlucky' and gotten 1 action sleeps. They're fair; I'll take a one-turn freeze any day of the week. Quite frankly, the change Deck implemented is the most balancing and best thing that could've ever happened to sleep.
Anyway, that's not why I'm posting here. I have more move suggestions to take shitty moves and make them cool and useful!
Last Resort as it is:
GrassWhistle and Sing as they are:
R1:
Jigglypuff:
Sing Kabuto ~ Keep Singing ~ Keep Singing
R2:
Jigglypuff:
Keep Singing ~ Pound ~ Pound
This would mean that the opponent would be asleep for up to four actions if it's slower than Jigglypuff. However, it would cost a total of: 8 energy for the initial use, 2 energy for the second turn, 4 for the third turn, and 6 for the fourth turn. This totals 20 energy for 4 actions of sleep. Note also that Jigglypuff has to keep singing in order to make this happen. This might be worth it if the target is racking up poison damage, or burn damage, or maybe Ghost Curse damage. In multi-battles, it would effectively remove two Pokemon from play, one from each side, thus not really being that broken at all. It certainly isn't useless and has its uses, though, which would be a good thing to differentiate it from other sleep moves.
Anyway, that's not why I'm posting here. I have more move suggestions to take shitty moves and make them cool and useful!
Last Resort as it is:
Last Resort as I envision it:
The problem with the current iteration of the move is that it is almost always less useful than Return or Frustration, and takes such a massive planned strategy that it is impractical to ever use. If it is made closer to how it works in-game, with the 15 BAP that comes along with it, then it becomes a legitimate strategy to use and plan for in the long term.
GrassWhistle and Sing as they are:
GrassWhistle and Sing as I envision them:
One of the primary issues with GrassWhistle and Sing is that with 55% accuracy, they are the worst sleep moves in the game. Furthermore, most Pokemon with them are either slow or have Sleep Powder, and thus will never actually use these moves except in bizarre circumstances. That said, these moves can be changed to a sleep that lasts for as long as you want it to, though it will simultaneously disable the Pokemon that is using them as well. Example:
R1:
Jigglypuff:
Sing Kabuto ~ Keep Singing ~ Keep Singing
R2:
Jigglypuff:
Keep Singing ~ Pound ~ Pound
This would mean that the opponent would be asleep for up to four actions if it's slower than Jigglypuff. However, it would cost a total of: 8 energy for the initial use, 2 energy for the second turn, 4 for the third turn, and 6 for the fourth turn. This totals 20 energy for 4 actions of sleep. Note also that Jigglypuff has to keep singing in order to make this happen. This might be worth it if the target is racking up poison damage, or burn damage, or maybe Ghost Curse damage. In multi-battles, it would effectively remove two Pokemon from play, one from each side, thus not really being that broken at all. It certainly isn't useless and has its uses, though, which would be a good thing to differentiate it from other sleep moves.
While I am all for making useless moves better, I'm not so sure I think the permanent sleep is a good idea. It could be very overpowering way to disable Pokemon. However, if an accuracy check (not necessarily 55%, but not 100% either) is applied each time then it would still give them some more use without being too overpowering in tandem with residual damage (or in multi battles).
As for Last Resort, I completely agree that it should be changed, but I just want to point out that it's in game power is 140, so I would think it should be 14 power. If the number of needed moves would drop one because of that, that could work, but if not, it still seems fair.
Edit: well it seems you changed it to 14 (at least in the move description, it still says 15 in the reasoning), so I agree completely.
As for Last Resort, I completely agree that it should be changed, but I just want to point out that it's in game power is 140, so I would think it should be 14 power. If the number of needed moves would drop one because of that, that could work, but if not, it still seems fair.
Edit: well it seems you changed it to 14 (at least in the move description, it still says 15 in the reasoning), so I agree completely.
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