This is really more a question for the Data Audit Thread.
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Data State of The Game (11/13/2011) - IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT IN POST #233
- Thread starter Seven Deadly Sins
- Start date
- Status
Something I feel rather strongly on, and that I believe merits some serious discussion here: RolePlay slots. The fact remains that, as the amount of RPs we have increases, the number of RPs that each person is in will increase, thereby increasing the amount of work that our refs have to do. If we limit the amount of RolePlays that any given player can participate in, we reduce the load on our refs and make it possible for ASB's roleplays to expand without requiring exorbitant amounts of work.
TL;DR we need to regulate RPs somehow, a la the three-match limit.
TL;DR we need to regulate RPs somehow, a la the three-match limit.
I actually completely agree with this. Three RPs and three battles sounds perfect valid in my opinion.
^Agreed. It's far too easy to participate in five RPs at once which is not only a cheap way to farm tokens, but places far too much stress on the refs. Something must be done.
"Charge:" should come up first anyway, unless you're searching from halfway down the list. Head Charge: and Wild Charge: come later.
In any case, what about various hitting moves canceling Dig/Fly/Dive etc? I'm not nerfing them any further since they serve their purpose well.
And again, I don't want to let specific arena effects die on the vine.
Also, looking into moves:
Full trapping:
Analysis:
OK, so these three are fairly unbalanced. Mean Look and Block really need shelled out effects, especially since switching isn't a particularly common action, even in Switch battles. I have a few ideas for this, I'll test it out.
Suggested changes:
So looking over the moves, Blocks users are almost all fatasses (and giving them a way around evasive mons helps lower their value), Mean Look mons almost all have direct status or inaccurate stat-down moves, and Spider Web had a lot of inhibiting fluff, which has been removed.
As far as Pain Split, I can give it -1 priority if you think it would help, and I can adjust the Divisor on the formula down to 2 from 3, increasing the Energy Cost.
In any case, what about various hitting moves canceling Dig/Fly/Dive etc? I'm not nerfing them any further since they serve their purpose well.
And again, I don't want to let specific arena effects die on the vine.
Also, looking into moves:
Full trapping:
Block: The Pokemon moves with unnatural speed to block off an opponent’s exit or attempts to gain distance. Block also releases a white energy that encapsulates the opponent, preventing them from getting too much distance. While Blocked, an opponent is more vulnerable to a follow-up attack, especially if they were moving with enhanced speed when Block is performed. In a switch battle, the Pokemon also moves with an unnatural speed to block any attempt to switch the opposing Pokemon and the move's energy prevents the opponent from switching out that Pokemon in between rounds for the duration of the battle.
Attack Power: -- | Accuracy: --| Energy Cost: 6 | Attack Type: Other | Effect Chance: -- | Typing: Normal | Priority: 0 | CT: Passive
Mean Look: The Pokémon shoots a dark, arresting glare at the opponent. Eyes appear around the opponent, making it unable to flee.
Attack Power: -- | Accuracy: -- | Energy Cost: 6 | Attack Type: Other | Effect Chance: -- | Typing: Normal | Priority: 0 | CT: Passive
Spider Web: The Pokemon spins a web in its general vicinity that it can set up between environmental objects, including the ground. If its opponent is close, they risk getting caught in the web immediately. A Pokemon stuck in the web will be unable to use moves that make contact for six (6) actions, though they are free to attempt to cut the web with an attack. Opposing Bug-type Pokemon are stuck in the web for only three (3) actions, while spider-like Pokemon can navigate across the web freely. Multiple webs can be strewn together. Fire-type attacks will burn down the webbing. In switch battles, the sticky web prevents the opponent from switching out that Pokemon in between rounds for the duration of the entrapment.
Attack Power: -- | Accuracy: -- | Energy Cost: 8 | Attack Type: Other | Effect Chance: -- | Typing: Bug | Priority: 0 | CT: Passive
Attack Power: -- | Accuracy: --| Energy Cost: 6 | Attack Type: Other | Effect Chance: -- | Typing: Normal | Priority: 0 | CT: Passive
Mean Look: The Pokémon shoots a dark, arresting glare at the opponent. Eyes appear around the opponent, making it unable to flee.
Attack Power: -- | Accuracy: -- | Energy Cost: 6 | Attack Type: Other | Effect Chance: -- | Typing: Normal | Priority: 0 | CT: Passive
Spider Web: The Pokemon spins a web in its general vicinity that it can set up between environmental objects, including the ground. If its opponent is close, they risk getting caught in the web immediately. A Pokemon stuck in the web will be unable to use moves that make contact for six (6) actions, though they are free to attempt to cut the web with an attack. Opposing Bug-type Pokemon are stuck in the web for only three (3) actions, while spider-like Pokemon can navigate across the web freely. Multiple webs can be strewn together. Fire-type attacks will burn down the webbing. In switch battles, the sticky web prevents the opponent from switching out that Pokemon in between rounds for the duration of the entrapment.
Attack Power: -- | Accuracy: -- | Energy Cost: 8 | Attack Type: Other | Effect Chance: -- | Typing: Bug | Priority: 0 | CT: Passive
Analysis:
OK, so these three are fairly unbalanced. Mean Look and Block really need shelled out effects, especially since switching isn't a particularly common action, even in Switch battles. I have a few ideas for this, I'll test it out.
Suggested changes:
Block: The Pokemon moves with unnatural speed to block off an opponent’s exit or attempts to gain distance. Block also releases a white energy that encapsulates the opponent, preventing a switch in Switch battles. If the target is using an evasive Attack or Command (e.g. Dig, Evasive Agility, Dodge, etc.) it will take fixed, typeless damage equal to the Block User's Weight Class times three (3x), and its evasive action (including any subsequent hit effect) will fail, regardless of the speed or priority of the Pokemon using Block. Block will bypass Taunt if used to cause damage to a fleeing opponent. Block's damage effect is not activated by Protect or Detect.
Attack Power: -- | Accuracy: --| Energy Cost: 8 | Attack Type: Other | Effect Chance: -- | Typing: Normal | Priority: 0 | CT: Passive
Mean Look: The Pokémon shoots a dark, arresting glare at the opponent. Eyes appear around the opponent, making it unable to switch out for the duration of the battle. For the next six (6) actions, all direct permanent status attacks (Hypnosis, Glare, Will-o-Wisp, etc.) and direct and indirect stat-dropping moves (Metal Sound, Rock Tomb, etc.) will ignore their accuracy check.
Attack Power: -- | Accuracy: -- | Energy Cost: 8 | Attack Type: Other | Effect Chance: -- | Typing: Normal | Priority: 0 | CT: Passive
Spider Web: The Pokemon spins a web in its general vicinity that it can set up between environmental objects, including the ground. If its opponent is close, they risk getting caught in the web immediately. A Pokemon stuck in the web will be unable to use moves that make contact for six (6) actions, though they are free to attempt to cut the web with an attack. In switch battles, the sticky web prevents the opponent from switching out that Pokemon in between rounds for the duration of the entrapment.
Attack Power: -- | Accuracy: -- | Energy Cost: 8 | Attack Type: Other | Effect Chance: -- | Typing: Bug | Priority: 0 | CT: Passive
Attack Power: -- | Accuracy: --| Energy Cost: 8 | Attack Type: Other | Effect Chance: -- | Typing: Normal | Priority: 0 | CT: Passive
Mean Look: The Pokémon shoots a dark, arresting glare at the opponent. Eyes appear around the opponent, making it unable to switch out for the duration of the battle. For the next six (6) actions, all direct permanent status attacks (Hypnosis, Glare, Will-o-Wisp, etc.) and direct and indirect stat-dropping moves (Metal Sound, Rock Tomb, etc.) will ignore their accuracy check.
Attack Power: -- | Accuracy: -- | Energy Cost: 8 | Attack Type: Other | Effect Chance: -- | Typing: Normal | Priority: 0 | CT: Passive
Spider Web: The Pokemon spins a web in its general vicinity that it can set up between environmental objects, including the ground. If its opponent is close, they risk getting caught in the web immediately. A Pokemon stuck in the web will be unable to use moves that make contact for six (6) actions, though they are free to attempt to cut the web with an attack. In switch battles, the sticky web prevents the opponent from switching out that Pokemon in between rounds for the duration of the entrapment.
Attack Power: -- | Accuracy: -- | Energy Cost: 8 | Attack Type: Other | Effect Chance: -- | Typing: Bug | Priority: 0 | CT: Passive
So looking over the moves, Blocks users are almost all fatasses (and giving them a way around evasive mons helps lower their value), Mean Look mons almost all have direct status or inaccurate stat-down moves, and Spider Web had a lot of inhibiting fluff, which has been removed.
As far as Pain Split, I can give it -1 priority if you think it would help, and I can adjust the Divisor on the formula down to 2 from 3, increasing the Energy Cost.
I'd also suggest that all of them stop U-turn, Roar and such from removing Taunt, Confusion, etc.
Aggron's Block deals 24 damage to anything that's trying to avoid his 15 BAP Head Smash.
Maybe dealing a set number plus Weight Class could be considered, if this turns out to be the problem that it seems to be.
Mean Look seems fine; the "but it buffs gengar!!!1" arguments can be preempted by comparing it to Telekinesis, which Gengar also learns.
Spider Web seems more concise now, and more in-line with actual spiders' web, which is difficult to burn in large quantities.
Edit: I concur with Ath's idea, as well. It brings them back in line with their in-game Perish Song synergy, which was lost for a time, along with effects like Leech Seed and Toxic counters.
Maybe dealing a set number plus Weight Class could be considered, if this turns out to be the problem that it seems to be.
Mean Look seems fine; the "but it buffs gengar!!!1" arguments can be preempted by comparing it to Telekinesis, which Gengar also learns.
Spider Web seems more concise now, and more in-line with actual spiders' web, which is difficult to burn in large quantities.
Edit: I concur with Ath's idea, as well. It brings them back in line with their in-game Perish Song synergy, which was lost for a time, along with effects like Leech Seed and Toxic counters.
Except that IIRC those moves ignore trapping moves and abilities (IE you can escape Arena Trap/Shadow Tag/Magnet Pull with U-Turn/Volt Switch, and I'm pretty sure the same applies for trapping moves), so that change would make 0 sense.
As far as the proposed changes to Pain Split, I definitely agree with energy cost going up. While making it -1 priority would definitely help balance it as well, I dislike throwing -1 priority at everything that is difficult to deal with.
As far as the proposed changes to Pain Split, I definitely agree with energy cost going up. While making it -1 priority would definitely help balance it as well, I dislike throwing -1 priority at everything that is difficult to deal with.
itt butthurt user whining at impending doom
More substitutions. It seems like now that I've returned, everyone has pumped up their movepools to 40, 50, 60, 70 moves. That's a lot of moves.
Two substitutions can't cover that. 2/40 is like, 5%. It puts a massive, massive disadvantage at whoever orders first, and everyone knows it. Maybe 3 Substitutions at 40 and an additional one every 20 more or something.
More substitutions. It seems like now that I've returned, everyone has pumped up their movepools to 40, 50, 60, 70 moves. That's a lot of moves.
Two substitutions can't cover that. 2/40 is like, 5%. It puts a massive, massive disadvantage at whoever orders first, and everyone knows it. Maybe 3 Substitutions at 40 and an additional one every 20 more or something.
itt user making DA butthurt whines too
No. One caveat placed on more subs was that people wouldn't be punished for buffing movepools with all of the terrible moves that each mon has, and by the time you get to 40, most mons have run out of moves. At any rate, most mons just don't have enough useful mves to justify three subs - it becomes too restrictive.
No. One caveat placed on more subs was that people wouldn't be punished for buffing movepools with all of the terrible moves that each mon has, and by the time you get to 40, most mons have run out of moves. At any rate, most mons just don't have enough useful mves to justify three subs - it becomes too restrictive.
Huh, could this be balanced with something like the CAP movepool requirements? IE, some moves are useful and some are not? And only useful ones count? I think it would be more complicated, but more fair as well. alsoitsyourfaultforbuyingfuckingsludgeonswampert
http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=Tbb0q497
Updated with most confirmed changes; e.g. full trapping and Teleport.
Updated with most confirmed changes; e.g. full trapping and Teleport.
I love this idea. The fact of the matter is, when something has 4 or 5 out of Protect/Detect/Double Team/Substitute/Fly/Dig/Dive/Counter/Mirror Coat/Bide/Agility (and keep in mind that 99% of Pokemon are guaranteed to have Protect/Double Team/Substitute and that there's other evasion/fuck you up for doing something moves that I'm likely forgetting) 2 subs simply isn't enough to avoid getting screwed over. While I do agree that punishing someone for buying useless moves is unfair, there should be some sort of good/very good move distinction that determines subs. They do it for CAP, I don't see why we can't do it here (especially since we could just use their list with a few ASB-centric changes)
Hmm. Game theory time.
Why can't I sub against Protect and Detect in the same substitution? Or against both Night Slash and Crunch, or against both Glare and Thunder Wave? It seems like it makes sense at first glance, you're basically saying "If he falls back on his non-conditional mid-range physical Dark moves, do X."
wat
Why can't I sub against Protect and Detect in the same substitution? Or against both Night Slash and Crunch, or against both Glare and Thunder Wave? It seems like it makes sense at first glance, you're basically saying "If he falls back on his non-conditional mid-range physical Dark moves, do X."
wat
"If he uses a physical move, use Counter; if he uses a special move, use Mirror Coat"
Way to strawman, friend.
There's a reason I used examples like "Night Slash and Crunch" instead of "Night Slash and Dark Void" or "Night Slash and Psycho Cut". The idea was to consider the concept of subbing for extremely similar moves.
However, you jumped directly to the one-line, "you should feel dumb for considering a change like that" exaggerated response, so this answer probably won't be regarded anyway.
Also, since I have too much time on my hands, I'll analyze the arena effects as proposed in the post linked herein.
Seems legit.
A bit underwhelming, but I suppose boosting such moves as Crustle's Rock Blast and Parasect's Bullet Seed isn't totally out of the question. This really doesn't do anything for "real" Bugs, such as Heracross, Yanmega, Scizor, Volcarona, Galvantula, etc. Maybe boost the effect chance of their moves? There really isn't a one-size-fits-all answer for the Bug-type.
Immunity to Accuracy fuckery is excellent, I'll give it that. It also opens the floor for arenas shrouded in fogs and shadows, which is appropriate flavor-wise. The boost to flinch rates is somewhat pointless, though. Friends like Houndoom appreciate the 30% flinch rate, but it pales compared to other arena effects. I think Dark-type status moves are what should get the love here - after all, such staples as Taunt, Torment, Snatch, and Embargo are hallmarks of the type.
Dragons live in some very densely populated Speed tiers, so the tiebreaking effect is very welcome in this instance. The reduction to Ice BAP isn't very fun - it's either -1.5 or -2.25 damage on Ice moves, which only serves to suppress creative ways around common weaknesses. Adding is always more fun than subtracting; I think boosting moves with "Dragon" in their name (e.g. everything except Outrage and Draco Meteor, wink wink) is the way to go here. What manner of boost is up to you.
Again, reducing the BAP of a weakness is boring - mono-type arenas are more exciting if they result in an alteration of tactics. (Almost every Electric-type gets Magnet Rise, anyway.) Half of all Electric move feature a paralysis chance - including the non-damaging moves - so perhaps bumping of the resulting paralysis to full 25% strength or boosting the effect chance would be in order.
No particular complaints here; this leads to the boosting of the Fighting-types often threatening coverage, e.g. Blaziken's Blaze Kick, elemental Punches, Mach Punch, HJK, etc.
Again with the "speed ties/weakness reduction" spiel. Fire types almost always carry Sunny Day, even, and it doesn't help against SE Rock- or Ground-type attacks. A Fire arena should be offensive, causing contact with a Fire-type to cause a point of damage, or something to that effect.
Speed stat protection is pretty cool here, considering a lot of Flyers break 100 Speed naturally. It'd be cool if Paralysis had less of a reduction in a Flying arena, but oh well. The accuracy boost is sort of welcome (Sky Attack/Air Slash/Hurricane), but it really only shines on very specific mons' moves, e.g. Staraptor's Sky Attack, Dragonite's Hurricane, or Togekiss' Air Slash). HOWEVER, considering the Flying-type's sheer diversity, this probably isn't a problem.
This is an excellent boost, at least in terms of the BAP boost. All of the common Ghosts share the same speed tier (110) and they share the tier with little else (Archeops, Tauros, Espeon, and Jumpluff are all rarely seen), meaning for the most part these Speed ties are getting rolled anyway. (If gastly is considered, then tying in the base 80 tier is a concern; which perhaps justifies the tiebreaker boost.) Maybe consider boosting the accuracy of direct-status moves, in the same vein as Mean Look (if not the same boost)?
The GrassWhistle buff here is incredible and it's difficult to ask for more, really. HOWEVER, the three moves you listed are the only moves subject to the buff. Of those, only GrassWhistle isn't 100% accurate normally. Just something to consider.
The evasion buff synergizes well with Sandstorm abuse, but the accuracy is likely to go underused - all of the main Ground-type attacks (Earthquake, Earth Power, Dig) enjoy 100% accuracy. The benefit applies to Drill Run, Bonemerang, and Fissure for the most part. If that's fine, then that's fine I suppose; just something to mention.
This has much the same issue as the Ground-type accuracy buff. The main (non-Blizzard) Ice-type attacks enjoy 100% accuracy, being Ice Beam, Icicle Spear, Ice Shard, Ice Punch, and Avalanche. The only attack that would be able to abuse this buff effectively, Blizzard, is already being abused with perfect accuracy under Hail conditions. Ice Pokemon are often fairly defensive, so this is one type that would enjoy a BAP reduction to their weaknesses.
Okay, I will concede that there's really no room for experimentation here. Normal-type Pokémon are too diverse to all enjoy a benefit from anything more specific.
This is disappointing, but understandable - Poison-typing appears on some of the most powerful Pokémon in ASB (oh no not geeennngarrrr again, ~oooooo~), but even then the Poison-type STAB will almost never see use, even with a BAP increase. Now, if these moves had a higher chance to inflict Poison, inflicted Bad Poison, or both, I could see quite a few mons falling back on their oft-forgotten "other" STAB...
The Sp. Atk. protection would be wholly welcome if more things reduced the stat (they don't, really). I'll second the suggestion to extend the Room moves, Screens, and/or other nonstandard effects (Telekinesis, Gravity, Role Play, Miracle Eye) that the Psychic-type so obviously excels at.
I'd perhaps protect both Defense stats, and maybe increase the BAP of "Stone" moves too. I don't really know, there's not a whole lot to the Rock-type beyond "take hits and deal them." Maybe buffering a few of those weaknesses...?
The users of Acid moves are rather rare, and most Steel-types can rapidly dispatch them with Ground moves anyway. What I'd look in to is the frequency of Steel-type damaging moves that modify a stat - Meteor Mash can raise Attack, Steel Wing can raise Defense, Mirror Shot can lower Accuracy, and so on. Either increasing the effect chance of stat-changing Steel-type attacks, or increasing the stage boost of Steel-type moves might be a welcome buff. +3/+2 Shift Gear, anyone?
Again with tiebreakers and weakness buffering. Most mono-water arenas will be used by at least one Water/Ground anyway. This is probably the most difficult to assess, as both Water Pokémon and Water moves are extremely diverse. Activation of Rain abilities is a step in the right direction, but is probably far too overpowering. Maybe guaranteeing the presence of deep, swimmable water sources (at the expense of land-based Pokémon, maybe) could be a welcome change with very strong anime precedent, even!
This is all advice, not requests, but hopefully it stimulates some thought and helps improve the final list of arena STAB bonuses.
No, I said what I said because that's what allowing substitutions against groups of moves would allow, unless you can suggest completely objective ways of defining very small groups of moves. "Extremely similar moves" is still too subjective. "Moves that have exactly the same effect" might work, though I don't think there are any two attacking moves with exactly the same effect when you consider that, unlike most non-attacking moves, typing makes a world of difference with attacking moves.
It wasn't a straw man, it was a logical extension of your proposal and your lack of specific, objective definition.
Okay, that's better.
Now, it would work fine with non-attacking moves, which are wont to have identical or near-identical effects. What gets interesting is when we try to define "near-identical" attacking moves. Status moves can have simple lists of equivalents with no issues, but what defines the same for attacking moves? Is Night Slash "near-identical" with Crunch? Sucker Punch? Bite? Dark Pulse? Each represents a stage further removed from the original move - where does the distinction end?
It's an interesting thought and game theory experiment.
I'll take some of that into consideration, but I'll give you some reasoning below.
The first principle of these arena boosts is that they should be:
Noticeable, but Small
E.g. if you're in an arena where the STAB bonus comes into effect, it is helpful but not game-changing.
I also tried not to duplicate effects outside of speed ties, but I might reconsider that.
Bug:
Pretty much every Bug has a multi-hit move, its just that many of them don't have STAB on them. Fury Swipes is extremely common, and Pin Missile has fairly good representation. Scyther and Scizor have Double Hit as well.
Dark:
TBH I was reaching for a secondary effect here. Dark is all over the place, and most of the moves are highly accurate. My chief concern is if I do something like increasing the duration of Dark move effects by 1 action it becomes unbalanced. Taunt is very powerful already.
Dragon:
I think the +1 BAP to "Dragon" Moves here is warranted. TBH I never liked the BAP reductions, I was just searching for something else.
Electric:
I'll go with something a little more modest: boosting the paralysis effect of electric moves by 5% (up to 25%) (e.g. 10% moves go to 15, 20% moves go to the full 25%, etc.)
Fighting:
I was almost afraid "Punch" and "Kick" would be too powerful, but its sort of what they do and with a lot more coverage options most mons can take them.
Fire:
Here I might do something similar to Electric, and apply an additional +10% Burn chance to all Fire moves.
Flying:
This is mostly meant as a boon to Hurricane users who don't want to cause Rain, and Air Slash/Sky Attack mons.
Ghost:
I'm satisfied with this as Gengar and Froslass are the only mons at 110, the rest sit at other speeds which can be unique, but often aren't. Chandelure's at 80, Jellicent's at 60.
Grass:
I realize the "Grass" part is a bit weak, but remember it ignores the accuracy check altogether so it functions even against evade increases and acc reductions.
Ground:
This also operates as intended, and gives a big boost to the "Mud" series of moves, all of which have less than 100 acc and are often on slower Pokemon that won't run a +Spe nature to compensate.
Ice:
Frost Breath, Ice Fang, Icicle Crash, and Icy Wind all have imperfect accuracy, and Hail is not always in effect or allowed, so the additional 10 is a big help to those slower Ice types. And of course, don't forget Sheer Cold.
Normal:
Yeah, not much I could do here. If you have a separate STAB you're probably using that rather than Normal STAB.
Poison:
Poison actually has the nastiest effect going. Note it says moves with a chance of Poison, so if you use it in a combo that will have a poison chance, or with a non-poison move that inflicts Poison like Twineedle, you still get the boost.
Psychic:
Two moves lower SpA, both are Super-effective against the Psychic type (Snarl and Struggle Bug). So its not much, but it does help them maintain threat level. Otherwise the 10 Acc is primarily for Hypnosis, Psywave, and Zen Headbutt.
Rock:
The only "Stone" move is actually Stone Edge, and I didn't want a carve-out just for that. I also don't want it to step into another type's territory, since I think not having SpD lowered is helpful to Grass types.
Steel:
The sneakiest used of Acid is probably Shuckle, but it is out there, and removing the immunity makes Steels vulnerable to poison as well, which dents their bulk significantly.
Water:
This one I came up with on the fly, but it doesn't seem suitable. I don't really want to tinker with accuracy here because Water has relatively few weaknesses as a type overall (offensive/defensive). What I might add is a +10% Effect chance to any Water-type moves, which buffs several of the more obscure and weaker moves (plus Scald).
The first principle of these arena boosts is that they should be:
Noticeable, but Small
E.g. if you're in an arena where the STAB bonus comes into effect, it is helpful but not game-changing.
I also tried not to duplicate effects outside of speed ties, but I might reconsider that.
Bug:
Pretty much every Bug has a multi-hit move, its just that many of them don't have STAB on them. Fury Swipes is extremely common, and Pin Missile has fairly good representation. Scyther and Scizor have Double Hit as well.
Dark:
TBH I was reaching for a secondary effect here. Dark is all over the place, and most of the moves are highly accurate. My chief concern is if I do something like increasing the duration of Dark move effects by 1 action it becomes unbalanced. Taunt is very powerful already.
Dragon:
I think the +1 BAP to "Dragon" Moves here is warranted. TBH I never liked the BAP reductions, I was just searching for something else.
Electric:
I'll go with something a little more modest: boosting the paralysis effect of electric moves by 5% (up to 25%) (e.g. 10% moves go to 15, 20% moves go to the full 25%, etc.)
Fighting:
I was almost afraid "Punch" and "Kick" would be too powerful, but its sort of what they do and with a lot more coverage options most mons can take them.
Fire:
Here I might do something similar to Electric, and apply an additional +10% Burn chance to all Fire moves.
Flying:
This is mostly meant as a boon to Hurricane users who don't want to cause Rain, and Air Slash/Sky Attack mons.
Ghost:
I'm satisfied with this as Gengar and Froslass are the only mons at 110, the rest sit at other speeds which can be unique, but often aren't. Chandelure's at 80, Jellicent's at 60.
Grass:
I realize the "Grass" part is a bit weak, but remember it ignores the accuracy check altogether so it functions even against evade increases and acc reductions.
Ground:
This also operates as intended, and gives a big boost to the "Mud" series of moves, all of which have less than 100 acc and are often on slower Pokemon that won't run a +Spe nature to compensate.
Ice:
Frost Breath, Ice Fang, Icicle Crash, and Icy Wind all have imperfect accuracy, and Hail is not always in effect or allowed, so the additional 10 is a big help to those slower Ice types. And of course, don't forget Sheer Cold.
Normal:
Yeah, not much I could do here. If you have a separate STAB you're probably using that rather than Normal STAB.
Poison:
Poison actually has the nastiest effect going. Note it says moves with a chance of Poison, so if you use it in a combo that will have a poison chance, or with a non-poison move that inflicts Poison like Twineedle, you still get the boost.
Psychic:
Two moves lower SpA, both are Super-effective against the Psychic type (Snarl and Struggle Bug). So its not much, but it does help them maintain threat level. Otherwise the 10 Acc is primarily for Hypnosis, Psywave, and Zen Headbutt.
Rock:
The only "Stone" move is actually Stone Edge, and I didn't want a carve-out just for that. I also don't want it to step into another type's territory, since I think not having SpD lowered is helpful to Grass types.
Steel:
The sneakiest used of Acid is probably Shuckle, but it is out there, and removing the immunity makes Steels vulnerable to poison as well, which dents their bulk significantly.
Water:
This one I came up with on the fly, but it doesn't seem suitable. I don't really want to tinker with accuracy here because Water has relatively few weaknesses as a type overall (offensive/defensive). What I might add is a +10% Effect chance to any Water-type moves, which buffs several of the more obscure and weaker moves (plus Scald).
I'm not a huge fan of grouping moves in general, but Protect and Detect should be considered equal for the purpose of subs. They do the exact same thing, and having to use both your subs to block a single move (effectively) is pretty stupid.
On the grouping, i think just grouping them by the effect woul be enough, I now that my Slowpoke won't like Crunch AND Night Slash, but if i have to sub against one then that way I can at least remove the chance of the most powerful one to hit me, it's not to remove all of your opponent options, subs imo are to limit their options in enough so you can outdamage them cause they can't use their most powerful/useful moves without triggering the sub
So for the purpose of grouping I think status an moves with the same (100%) effect would be in the same category, so Glare an T-wave would be protected if used intead of "If he/she uses Glare then... & If he/she uses T-wave then...", since that leaves you without subs an you just disable one of his/her options, so stuff like Protect/Detect would be equal, Dig/Fly/Bounce would be equal, Sleep Powder/Spore, etc...
So for the purpose of grouping I think status an moves with the same (100%) effect would be in the same category, so Glare an T-wave would be protected if used intead of "If he/she uses Glare then... & If he/she uses T-wave then...", since that leaves you without subs an you just disable one of his/her options, so stuff like Protect/Detect would be equal, Dig/Fly/Bounce would be equal, Sleep Powder/Spore, etc...
Dig would not be equal to Fly/Bounce, I think, by virtue of typing.
It has the same effect of dodging most moves though, same with Dive. It's a bit more difficult to justify grouping them since different moves can hit through each, but they still all have more or less the same purpose of dodging most moves that are slower then hitting.
- Status