BellyZard is a decent surprise lead if you can predict well, especially as there's no SR to mess around with it now, and Zard is immune to spikes damage. However, outside of that and Solar Power, it's viability is obviously quite meh.
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Stealth Rock Less Ladder
- Thread starter ginganinja
- Start date
Maybe hail too, jk, but yeah this could be possible. Rain will also be prominent though, esp as mons like Thundurus and Tornadus can't get damaged by rocks on the switch-in.
Sun and rain will probably rise in usage due to fire types and genies buffs. Without the threat of sr these weather sweepers can simply come in, hit stuff hard and switch out once a check comes in, with no drawbacks. I think sun could actually become the most popular weather or at least tie with it.
This may appear to be a stupid question, but wouldn't this metagame be more appropriate for the OM forums?
Anyways, I'm pretty sure that most Pokemon in this metagame will be running a power boosting nature. The main reason I believe this is that Stealth Rock allowed many offensive Pokemon 2HKO several special walls / offensive tanks. For example, Keldeo's Rain boosted Hydro Pump could only 2HKO Offensive Latias after Stealth Rock. With Stealth Rock gone, Keldeo needs to run a Modest nature if it wants to 2HKO Latias.
Anyways, I'm pretty sure that most Pokemon in this metagame will be running a power boosting nature. The main reason I believe this is that Stealth Rock allowed many offensive Pokemon 2HKO several special walls / offensive tanks. For example, Keldeo's Rain boosted Hydro Pump could only 2HKO Offensive Latias after Stealth Rock. With Stealth Rock gone, Keldeo needs to run a Modest nature if it wants to 2HKO Latias.
What matters with voltturn is not so much whether you are taking damage, but whether you are taking more damage than your opponent. I suppose taking away 12% from both sides accentuates the effect of U-turn's damage, but on the other hand you could have prepared yourself for SR more than the other team, since you are the one running volt-turn.
I don't think it helps that much, unless of course there are particularly good volt-turners that you were thinking of using...
I don't think it helps that much, unless of course there are particularly good volt-turners that you were thinking of using...
Yep, sun is OP since every single good spiker also happens to be weak to fire. I miss Deoxys-D.
Sun isn't as OP however as TTar can still come in and get rid of tales with the right move, or rather other weather teams may use Dugtrio more often. I think Rain got a better buff.
Articuno is an interesting choice, those defensive stats are pretty great, while Kyurem has pretty much almost the same bulk (90/100/125 vs 125/100/90 - Kyurem reaches 138924 Special Bulk, and Articuno 147072, but Kyurem has better physical bulk at 148912 as opposed to 125952) - Articuno's typing gives it some advantages Kyurem doesn't have, namely neutrality to fighting moves (kyurem has a neutrality to fire moves which helps switching them around a bit) although they both share a steel weakness which is not good with Scizor and such running around. Speaking of Scizor, I wonder if Scyther would be usable. Eviolite Bulky Swords Dance looks better without SR, on paper, but is probably better off as a baton pass user.
Articuno is an interesting choice, those defensive stats are pretty great, while Kyurem has pretty much almost the same bulk (90/100/125 vs 125/100/90 - Kyurem reaches 138924 Special Bulk, and Articuno 147072, but Kyurem has better physical bulk at 148912 as opposed to 125952) - Articuno's typing gives it some advantages Kyurem doesn't have, namely neutrality to fighting moves (kyurem has a neutrality to fire moves which helps switching them around a bit) although they both share a steel weakness which is not good with Scizor and such running around. Speaking of Scizor, I wonder if Scyther would be usable. Eviolite Bulky Swords Dance looks better without SR, on paper, but is probably better off as a baton pass user.
Poor Volcarona, even in a SR-less metagame, someone else will steal your spotlight. Offensive Dragonite counters any non-HP Ice Volcarona set, while SpD Dragonite counters even ridiculous shit such as +1 Ice Gem Hidden Power Ice.
Talking about Dragonite, SpD Dragonite is going to be such a beast. It takes care of offensive threats such as Venusaur, physical Victini, and Volcarona, while being a superb special wall in general that is immune to any kind of hazards and will always take the initial hit for half damage when switching in.
Also, RestTalk Gyarados and defensive Gyarados in general just got a ton more viable, being a wonderful check to most physical attackers and having many good support options (Taunt, Dragon Tail, Roar, Thunder Wave).
Both defensive Dragonite and defensive Gyarados are going to appreciate cleric support of 'course, so Pokemon such as Celebi, Blissey, and Chansey are good teammates.
I think bulky offense will be excellent in this meta, while stall and HO are going to take a hit.
Talking about Dragonite, SpD Dragonite is going to be such a beast. It takes care of offensive threats such as Venusaur, physical Victini, and Volcarona, while being a superb special wall in general that is immune to any kind of hazards and will always take the initial hit for half damage when switching in.
Also, RestTalk Gyarados and defensive Gyarados in general just got a ton more viable, being a wonderful check to most physical attackers and having many good support options (Taunt, Dragon Tail, Roar, Thunder Wave).
Both defensive Dragonite and defensive Gyarados are going to appreciate cleric support of 'course, so Pokemon such as Celebi, Blissey, and Chansey are good teammates.
I think bulky offense will be excellent in this meta, while stall and HO are going to take a hit.
This metagame has been pretty garbage so far. You cant do anything to stop dragonite, volcarona, thundurus or whatever from fucking you up. They just setup and attack and when you force them out they simply return later with no problsm whatsoever. Yeah this just enforces my previous views on the matter, sr are definitely a necessity regardless of how annoying they are.
I remember that PS had this ladder up for a brief time a few months back as a mistake and it was a horrible metagame as I recall. Maybe I just didn't give it enough of a chance but w/e. I have no interest in fooling around on this ladder but I'll be following the posts in this thread and probably watch a few games. Have fun people~
k got top 25 with a old ass revamped sun team, it was fun, will update with more ladder peaks soon
EDIT: I dropped to 49 because some guy started haxing me with a ice beam/thunder wave lanturn in rain, seriously he got 2 para's and 3 freezes
3 FREEZES
EDIT: I dropped to 49 because some guy started haxing me with a ice beam/thunder wave lanturn in rain, seriously he got 2 para's and 3 freezes
3 FREEZES
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Well in a metagame without SR you could always ban the Pokemon that end up being problematic because of the lack of SR and bring down some of the banned Pokemon that may have a chance of not being broken without SR around (mainly because of new defensive checks they got, or because they can't get as many OHKO/2HKOes they used to with SR up).
I don't like this mindset, mainly because you're saying "Lets keep SR OU just so it checks broken stuff!". This isn't the way we should be looking at Stealth Rock in the metagame. If these Pokemon happen to become broken without SR, then we ban them, simple as that.
Lol, I had to run CB Scizor w/ Bullet Punch and Dragonite w/ ExtremeSpeed just to check Volcarona and Kyurem-B. Still pretty fun though.
But also keep in mind about 1/2 of the OU population also beleives SR isn't broken. Going down a long convoluted road of bans just to appeal a group of people who aren't a majority (close, but not majority) doesn't seem like the best direction to take the game in my opinion.
Oh no, I'm not claiming that SR is broken, and I know this ladder isn't about a suspect test at all, but I don't want people using this reasoning to keep something that's potentially broken in the future.
Jukain ShootingStarmie Youre talking as if i think sr is broken and want to keep it just because it checks stuff. No, i do not think sr is broken and thats why i dont want them to be banned in case theres ever a future suspect. However i did not know that a sr less game would be so terrible and this just REINFORCES my original view.