Stealth Rock Less Ladder

Lady Alex

Mew is blue
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Ok Seriously in my opinion this metagame stinks.

First of all, SR hasn't promoted the huge amount of diversity that I was told to be expect by the pro-ban side of the arguement. The banishment of SR has really only served to promote the powerful threats that were weak to SR in OU, which are some the best Pokemon in the game. I just e-z cruised my way to #11 on the ladder with a dragmag team consisting of politoed - dragonite - tornadus / kube - garchomp - magnezone - and latios. SR puts much more pressure on offensive threats than defensive threats when it is implemented because defensive mons in an SR metagame since the best defensive typings resist or are neutral to rock anyway (steel, ground, water, poison; not ice and fire). It also serves to promote weather because weatherless' best mainstay in HO with hazard leads is gone now. You can chose to run a. sun / rain to preserve your own focus sash's, preserve multiscale, or use offensive fire-type for sun or flying hurricane spammers for rain OR b. Sand / hail to break opposing sashes / multiscale, prevent fire-types/hurricane spam from being out of control, and (in hail's case) use offensive ice-types.

Regarding the bolded part, you're vastly underestimating the impact SR has on defensive pokemon. Offensive pokemon, generally, are not looking to take many hits, if any, depending on who you're talking about. While SR is naturally going to make their survivability worse than it already is, SR doesn't stop them from performing their function, denting holes in the other team, when they get the opportunity to switch in. Defensive pokemon are usually going to be switching in multiple times in order to keep offensive pokemon at bay, and SR damage builds up very quickly, even if it's resisted. The large number of pokemon who have access to SR combined with how much harder it is to keep SR as opposed to how easy it is to get them up makes defensive pokemon/teams suffer much more than offensive pokemon/teams. Congrats on your ladder peak, but you can just "e-z cruise" your way to a high point in the standard ladder with almost anything, so please don't say something like that as if it supports your opinion that a meta with SR is inferior to one with SR.
 
Regarding the bolded part, you're vastly underestimating the impact SR has on defensive pokemon. Offensive pokemon, generally, are not looking to take many hits, if any, depending on who you're talking about. While SR is naturally going to make their survivability worse than it already is, SR doesn't stop them from performing their function, denting holes in the other team, when they get the opportunity to switch in. Defensive pokemon are usually going to be switching in multiple times in order to keep offensive pokemon at bay, and SR damage builds up very quickly, even if it's resisted. The large number of pokemon who have access to SR combined with how much harder it is to keep SR as opposed to how easy it is to get them up makes defensive pokemon/teams suffer much more than offensive pokemon/teams. Congrats on your ladder peak, but you can just "e-z cruise" your way to a high point in the standard ladder with almost anything, so please don't say something like that as if it supports your opinion that a meta with SR is inferior to one with SR.
I really disagree with this here.

First off SR punishes the switches of offensive Pokemon much more harshly than than defensive ones because offensive Pokemon most likely lack a means of reliable recovery, even Leftovers. Most offensive pokemon don't have a means of offsetting that damage, putting them in a position where they have limited opportunities to take down the opponent. This can be used to the advantage of defensive teams to make the opponent have to attempt to break through earlier on in the match when all their pokemon are healthy.

Second, while defensive Pokemon are under more pressure to switch and switch-in more often, their means of recovery, especially Leftovers, can stop this. If you are able to force out an offensive Pokemon while you have leftovers, you end up with an extra +6% damage to you while the opponent who is not running lefties could be taking 12%+.

My "e-z cruise" comment is meant to reflect upon how offensive teams can go on auto-pilot because they have no penalty for switching or correcting an error with a switch, especially with my two/three SR weak mons. I didn't mean to come across as "I am better than everyone I just wrecked the ladder eZ" but "man this playing is mindless and without SR I don't have to think harder about plays 'easy' ". Sorry if I came across as a bit pompous >.<

Edit: phone typing made all ---> are which was confusing
 
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After a day on this ladder with a bug mono, my bugs love it here. :) Already much higher rank + win/loss ratio than my alt that runs a bug team on the regular ladder, as can be expected. I made a separate bug team to reflect the main differences I've noted in teams, and not needing my own stealth rock setter.

1. Spikes are amazing. Idk why I don't see more of them. They break sashes (honestly, haven't seen enough more of them to care), they punish switches, etc. The majority of things that don't take damage from them are weak to ice or rock, and die from the coverage moves on my team anyway.

2. I'm seeing far less rain and far more sun. The rain teams I do see usually carry hurricane on about 1/2 the team, and that strategy is much rarer in regular OU ladder (due to most things that carry it being weak to rock). Sun teams look about the same. Variety in general is much higher. Other than seeing the same 3 Pokemon frequently, the rest of the team and strategies used by opponents tends to be much more varied. So, instead of seeing the same 15 or so Pokemon over and over with the same 3 teams as everyone else, I see 3 Pokemon very frequently and much more variety for the rest of the team.

3. Most common things I come across: Dragonite, Volcarona, Terrakion. Seriously, Dragonite is on about 3/4 of the teams I've come across. Terrakion is much more common than in the regular ladder, presumably to counter all the rock-weak pokemon that people are trying here. Other things that are 4x weak to rock occasionally show up now (such as Charizard, Moltres, Yanmega), when I've very rarely seen them used by a skilled player on the regular OU ladder.

4. I can't tell if the general skill level of this ladder is higher or lower than regular. I'm seeing a far lower proportion of people who don't seem to know how to play at all (such as the ones who would use a focus punch Gengar with no sub or similar strategies that'll never, ever work), but other than that seems about the same for skill level. I can't call playing this ladder "mindless" in any way as some people have mentioned, but I'm kinda biased in that I'm running a bug mono and are therefore still am weak to the rock/fire/flying attacks that are much more prevalent on this ladder than in regular OU. It's still better for the bugs to have no rocks in the way.

Tl;dr - Yanmega approves of this ladder. :)
 
I still haven't tried Yanmega, but I have been using Spikes. It's actually really nice because Spikes put real hurt on Jirachi and Ferrothorn.
 
Everybody keeps talking about Dragonite, blah blah blah.
But the easiest way to beat Dragonite imo is Kyurem in hail:
220+ SpA Kyurem Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 60 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 398-470 (103.1 - 121.76%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
Edit: wow the above post made me think dnite is more broke not less lol. 4x weakness, invested, 130 special 120 bp STAB has THAT LOW of overkill?
Ok Seriously in my opinion this metagame stinks.

First of all, SR hasn't promoted the huge amount of diversity that I was told to be expect by the pro-ban side of the arguement. The banishment of SR has really only served to promote the powerful threats that were weak to SR in OU, which are some the best Pokemon in the game. I just e-z cruised my way to #11 on the ladder with a dragmag team consisting of politoed - dragonite - tornadus / kube - garchomp - magnezone - and latios. SR puts much more pressure on offensive threats than defensive threats when implemented because the best defensive typings resist or are neutral to rock anyway (steel, ground, water, poison; not ice and fire). It also serves to promote weather because weatherless' best mainstay in HO with hazard leads is gone now. You can chose to run a. sun / rain to preserve your own focus sash's, preserve multiscale, or use offensive fire-type for sun or flying hurricane spammers for rain OR b. Sand / hail to break opposing sashes / multiscale, prevent fire-types/hurricane spam from being out of control, and (in hail's case) use offensive ice-types.
Just wanted to say that Ice is the only really bad defensive typing that gets owned by SR. Fire has a huge number of resistances compared to weaknesses. Water and Ground being common types while it resists mostly bad attacking types keeps it from being amazing alone, but it'd be great for defensive synergy if not for SR.
Flying and Bug are pretty decent types actually with their match ups defensively.
These 3 types tend to not have defensively oriented spreads or low BSTs, but their match ups work. Moltres actually has fair walling potential in the abscense of SR and its stat spread is that of a bulky attacker. If it had Ferrothorn's spread then it would be an amazing high OU defensive mon in the absence of rocks.

Just wanted to share my thoughts. It's really about their BSTs/spreads/movepools and SR limiting them as walls, only Ice is bad as a typing out of the 4.
 

haunter

Banned deucer.
Everybody keeps talking about Dragonite, blah blah blah.
But the easiest way to beat Dragonite imo is Kyurem in hail:
220+ SpA Kyurem Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 60 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 398-470 (103.1 - 121.76%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Kyurem Black can OHKO Dragonite through multiscale with ice beam (even with 0 SpA investment) or outrage thanks to teravolt (which ignores multiscale). Point is, Kyurem (-B) can't switch into any Dragonite, cause Dnite can dragon dance on the switch, outspeed and OHKO with outrage. You might run scarf Cube (which is certainly more viable in a SR less meta) but it's still a risky check, cause if Dragonite is choice banded, you're risking an immediate OHKO.
 
Ok Seriously in my opinion this metagame stinks.

First of all, SR hasn't promoted the huge amount of diversity that I was told to be expect by the pro-ban side of the arguement. The banishment of SR has really only served to promote the powerful threats that were weak to SR in OU, which are some the best Pokemon in the game. I just e-z cruised my way to #11 on the ladder with a dragmag team consisting of politoed - dragonite - tornadus / kube - garchomp - magnezone - and latios. SR puts much more pressure on offensive threats than defensive threats when implemented because the best defensive typings resist or are neutral to rock anyway (steel, ground, water, poison; not ice and fire). It also serves to promote weather because weatherless' best mainstay in HO with hazard leads is gone now. You can chose to run a. sun / rain to preserve your own focus sash's, preserve multiscale, or use offensive fire-type for sun or flying hurricane spammers for rain OR b. Sand / hail to break opposing sashes / multiscale, prevent fire-types/hurricane spam from being out of control, and (in hail's case) use offensive ice-types.
The bolded part is what I don't like about your argument. SR puts a lot more pressure on defensive threats, as offensive threats aren't trying to switch into attacks and wall the opposition. Saying the best defensive types resist SR anyway is kid of silly to me, as resisting SR is what makes them one of the best defensive typings anyway, which doesn't matter in an SR less metagame. I actually happen to think that a few types that are weak to SR are very good defensive typings (Flying, Fire, Bug). The only reason you think they are bad defensively is that they are / were weak to SR. That's the only reason. Without SR, new defensive threats like Zapdos, Moltres, Dragonite, and many others have all become extremely viable.
 

Soul Fly

IMMA TEACH YOU WHAT SPLASHIN' MEANS
is a Contributor Alumnus
Fuck, Regenerator is OP shit in this meta lol. The only way I broke an AmoongBro core today was DD to +2 w/ my LumNite
 
The Moonbro core is ridiculously good, but I reckon it should work better in the regular OU ladder than this one since Volcarona destroys it completely. Overall I think all 3 weathers are getting more usage than rain, which should be a good thing. Heck, even rain is seeing more diversity just by using Moltres and the like. I think these four pokemon are S tier pokemons on this ladder: Kyube, Dragonite, Volcarona, Keldeo and Terrakion.
 
The bolded part is what I don't like about your argument. SR puts a lot more pressure on defensive threats, as offensive threats aren't trying to switch into attacks and wall the opposition. Saying the best defensive types resist SR anyway is kid of silly to me, as resisting SR is what makes them one of the best defensive typings anyway, which doesn't matter in an SR less metagame.

But stall teams tend to have more Pokemon that use Leftovers and have recovery moves to regain the damage lost to Stealth Rock. However, that advantage is somewhat blunted because the switched Pokemon has to take two hits -- one from the switch-in and one from an attack because offensive Pokemon usually have higher speed than defensive Pokemon -- before it can use a recovery move. Protect spamming tends to leverage passive recovery though to negate the damage from Stealth Rock while offensive teams may wear themselves out with Life Orb or have to switch out if they are using a Choiced Pokemon locked into a suboptimal move. Toxic also forces switches and leverages the stall teams entry hazards.

I actually happen to think that a few types that are weak to SR are very good defensive typings (Flying, Fire, Bug). The only reason you think they are bad defensively is that they are / were weak to SR. That's the only reason. Without SR, new defensive threats like Zapdos, Moltres, Dragonite, and many others have all become extremely viable.
Agreed. Flying, Fire, and Bug were only liabilities only because they are weak to Stealth Rock and that forces one to play them quite conservatively as one gets punished by switching them in. This also makes Levitate a nifty ability since it grants all of the defensive benefits of Flying without any of the drawbacks. Ice is just an atrocious defensive typing, even without Stealth Rock.
 
I tried out the ladder today only, and here are my thoughts.
Firstly, I'm pretty neutral to this arguement of which 'mons SR helps/hinders more - offensive or defensive. I simply believe that absolutely nothing in the game likes taking more damage than what it should be, whether that damage is. 6% or 25% (now that might sound like a noob arguement, but I'm being totally honest here).
I mainly played offense, and for me, it seems like how you play offense is pretty important in determining how big of a deal SR is. If you can keep the switching to a minimum (as in the hazard lead+5 setup sweeper teams), hazards wouldn't bother you that much. On the other hand, playstyles like VoltTurn get utterly raped by hazards (unless you have Xatu, which is the last thing you would want on offensive VoltTurn). In fact, I made up a seemingly stupid team of Scarf Thundy-T, Band Scizor, Specs Rotom-W, Band Infernape, Scarf Jirachi and Specs Hydeigon, and to be honest, it worked better than I expected. Much better. I ran into a few defensively-oriented teams, but I can't really comment on how much of a difference SR would've made, as I was just spamming Volt Switch/U-Turn all the time.

It's an undeniable fact though that the diversity in this meta is much greater - running into Moltres was pretty neat.
Also, I found out the hard way that Shedinja is VoltTurn's ultimate bitch.
 
Ice is not ''fine''. Its the worst defensive type in the game, weak to the most popular type and the most popular priority and only has one resistance (to itself, which is almost always unstabbed so they could very well just be neutral to itself and it wouldnt make much of a difference). I have no idea why people keep praising articuno, abomasnow, walrein etc. like if they are actually good in this ladder. The lack of sr just removes one among the many flaws they have and is definitely not enough to make them fully viable. You cant just throw a defensive ice type in a team, it requires massive support to cover all of those weakness and the fact that ice doesnt provide almost any resistance to a team. Subroost kyurem gets away with that because of dragon typing.
 
Ok now that I peaked #7, here's my opinion on this meta.

First, I get that rank with forretress-dragonite-cloyster-volcarona-terrakion-breloom. 4/6 have focus sash, so with multiscale and sturdy it means that all my team have a pseudo focus sash. So yeah, HO without SR is very hard to play because you lose a ton of 2KHO or OKHO without that.

I meet only 1 sand and 1 hail team, and 3-4 teams that used spike but without spin blocker. I guess it's because the metagame is new, so people tend to use more gimmick things that can work better with SR removed, and that's why team with full focus sash can work, since they lack a way to get rid of it.

There also some pretty good rain stall because they can use tornadus/moltres/dragonite without the drawback of SR, and spam powerfull hurricane.

I guess that when people will get tired of using SR weak mons, they will use more stall/balance team, because SR beneficiate more for offensive team than defensive team. Sun stall sound good, cress can take the majority of the physical attacker and ninetales bring the sun in order to counter spam hurricane, and you don't have to worry about SR.

Also, Breloom Stone Edge is pretty counter-metagame, 2KHO dragonite, OKHO tornadus,moltres,volcarona on the switch...
Cloyster is an other mon that deserve more usage, with multi hit breaking through sash and outspeeding 108's scarfer after 1 boost.
Forretress custap berry with gravity is fun because now spike hit flying type for 4 turns while boosting accuracy.
 

Shurtugal

The Enterpriser.
is a Tiering Contributor
Sash Abomasnow isn't too bad on HO assuming you don't rely on sashes yourself as it breaks scale / sturdy while luring random things out.

Though I haven't played much if the SRless meta so I won't say more till later
 
My biggest problem with stealth rock is the lack of variety it causes. SR makes both hail and sun extremely hard to use as well as entire types of pokemon. Fire types are either weak to both SR and spikes and still like by toxic spikes or are 4x weak to stealth rock, and ice is weak to SR and still gets hit by both spikes. That right there makes sun or hail teams require so much support, sometimes by less than stellar pokemon, that their benefits are already outweighed by their negetives. Water already has some great spinners who get their STAB moves get an increase in rain. Throw in the fact that ninetales is awful and abamasnow has a 4x weakness to fire as well as a weakness to u turn and they are almost not worth considering. Also water isnt weak to hazards and has a type advantage over sun and sand while sand generally has a type advantage over sun and sometimes hail. I would really like to see more balance here and getting rid of stealth rock might help.

The second topic is broken pokemon. Some pokemon would benefit greatly such as dragonite, volcarona, landorus and even charizard from the absence of SR. However they would still have their crippling 4 times weaknesses. hp rock or stone edge will still ruin charizard and volcarona,who only have 100 base speed. Charizard is very frail and volcaona is still hit by spikes and ground moves. landorus t isnt super fast, is not nearly as threatening as its already banned incarnate form and still gets downed by ice beam or hp ice. Although dragonite is potentially more of a problem than the others simply because of multiscale, I think it will still be manageable, especially with fairy type coming out. If it still worries you, running a sand team or a hopefully more viable hail team should help get some damage up. All that aside dragonite is still 4x weak to ice and is outsped by the other OU dragons. however if dragonite truly ends up being broken it can always be banned.

Third some people have mentioned focus sash being a problem but spikes will still be around for grounded mons and smogon has banned items before, why not this one?

Anyway most of it has been said already and i definitely feel like this is at least worth testing.
 

Soul Fly

IMMA TEACH YOU WHAT SPLASHIN' MEANS
is a Contributor Alumnus
I have no idea why people keep praising articuno, abomasnow, walrein etc. like if they are actually good in this ladder.
You clearly haven't used Articuno, nor do you what you're talking abut here. Have you ever seen it in action SubRoost stalling in hail/rain? With Hurricane, it's main niche over Kyurem granting vast coverage w/ ice beam, along with the fact that it doesn't need to worry about spikes/t-spikes damage which is gaining popularity on the ladder. Mind you I'm not saying it's S-Class, but it's pretty reliable at it's job.
 
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You clearly haven't used Articuno, nor do you what you're talking abut here. Have you ever seen it in action SubRoost stalling in hail/rain? With Hurricane, it's main niche over Kyurem granting vast coverage w/ ice beam, along with the fact that it doesn't need to worry about spikes/t-spikes damage which is gaining popularity on the ladder. Mind you I'm not saying it's S-Class, but it's pretty reliable at it's job.
Have you ever seen moltres doing that EXACTLY same thing while boasting superior typing, the stats to be a respectable offensive threat and the ability to check sun teams? Have you ever seen zapdos doing that EXACTLY same thing (with thunder instead of hurricane) while boasting superior typing, the stats to be a respectable offensive threat and the ability to check threats like tornadus, scizor, moltres (in rain), breloom etc? My point is, theres no reason to use articuno, its completely outclassed by its brothers and kyurem to an extent.
 
They both fulfill niche roles and are outclassed at some level. Articuno's typing is such a double-edged Sword that it cries when facing half of OU. Zapdos must contend with Thundy-T and Rotom-W while its average bulk and the Landorus ban make it somewhat worse so I tend to prefer SubRoost Moltres if I have to use a legendary bird. But then that means I can't run Agility and crush teams with Hurricane/Fire Blast so I just revert to SubRoost Kyurem-B.
 

Lady Alex

Mew is blue
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Now that I'm done with it, here's the team I used to take the #1, 2, and 3 spots for anyone who wants to try it.

Politoed @ Leftovers
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Protect
- Encore
- Ice Beam

Moltres @ Life Orb
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Hurricane
- Substitute
- Roost

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 68 Def / 188 SDef
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Leech Seed
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave
- Gyro Ball

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Trait: Rain Dish
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spd
Bold Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Scald
- Protect
- Rapid Spin

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Toxic
- Softboiled
- Seismic Toss
- Aromatherapy

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Trait: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Toxic
 
Now that I'm done with it, here's the team I used to take the #1, 2, and 3 spots for anyone who wants to try it.

Politoed @ Leftovers
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Protect
- Encore
- Ice Beam

Moltres @ Life Orb
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Hurricane
- Substitute
- Roost

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 68 Def / 188 SDef
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Leech Seed
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave
- Gyro Ball

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Trait: Rain Dish
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spd
Bold Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Scald
- Protect
- Rapid Spin

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Toxic
- Softboiled
- Seismic Toss
- Aromatherapy

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Trait: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Toxic
I would like to thank this team for making me run HP rock on ninetales...

;_;

Made top 40 with a Sun team using Shedinja, it is incredibly fun to use.
Ninetales @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 200 Spd / 208 HP / 100 SDef
Calm Nature
IVs: 30 Def / 30 SDef / 30 Spd / 3 Atk
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Flamethrower
- Protect
- Roar

Xatu @ Rocky Helmet
Trait: Magic Bounce
EVs: 236 HP / 56 Spd / 216 Def
Bold Nature
- Reflect
- Roost
- U-turn
- Heat Wave

Shedinja @ Focus Sash
Trait: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SAtk
Adamant Nature
- Shadow Sneak
- X-Scissor
- Will-O-Wisp
- Baton Pass

Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
Trait: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Hasty Nature
IVs: 21 HP / 0 Def
- Stone Edge
- Reversal
- Memento
- Earthquake

Heatran @ Air Balloon
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Magma Storm
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- SolarBeam
- Sunny Day

Venusaur @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 180 Spd / 252 SAtk / 32 HP / 44 Def
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Growth
- Hidden Power [Fire]


Unfortunately it loses to Lady's team because lolscald.
 

Soul Fly

IMMA TEACH YOU WHAT SPLASHIN' MEANS
is a Contributor Alumnus
Have you ever seen moltres doing that EXACTLY same thing while boasting superior typing, the stats to be a respectable offensive threat and the ability to check sun teams?
False. Articuno has better bulk and Ice/Flying is a more superior dual move coverage combo in OU. And Moltres ain't so hot with rain, so both have very different roles.

Have you ever seen zapdos doing that EXACTLY same thing (with thunder instead of hurricane) while boasting superior typing, the stats to be a respectable offensive threat and the ability to check threats like tornadus, scizor, moltres (in rain), breloom etc? My point is, theres no reason to use articuno, its completely outclassed by its brothers and kyurem to an extent.
Zapdos already contends for a spot with R-W and Thundy-T on standard OU teams, and with Lando gone it lost it's defining spot in OU, coverage wise both hit the same number of things.
And if you're seriously throwing up names like Breloom and Scizor you clearly have no idea how SubRoost stalling works because Kyurem, the most premier SubRooster in OU right now falls to them too. so you'll need to do better than throwing up names of two of the most common priorities in OU with near flawless STAB coverage.
 
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False. Articuno has better bulk and Ice/Flying is a more superior dual move coverage combo in OU. And Moltres ain't so hot with rain, so both have very different roles.
Yeah, gonna have to disagree here. Articuno has marginally better physical bulk which is completely upended by how bad Ice/Flying is defensively. Articuno's good special bulk is also hampered by, again, the utter trash that is Ice/Flying as a defensive type.

I wish I didn't have to comment on "a more superior dual move coverage", but I do. Ice/Flying is not good. At all. Or did you forget that Steel walls both of them? Moltres on the other hand 2HKOs at worst any Steel-type barring Heatran with Fire Blast in the rain, and can even KO offensive Heatran with a few Hurricanes, because Moltres is that powerful. Moltres' entire niche in OU is a Hurricane spammer that also clears out Ferrothorn and serves to check Sun teams. What does Articuno do? As a SubPressure staller, Kyurem completely invalidates it, and Zapdos comes pretty damn close to doing the same. As a Hurricane spammer, Moltres, Tornadus, and Dragonite to an extent invalidate it.
 

Soul Fly

IMMA TEACH YOU WHAT SPLASHIN' MEANS
is a Contributor Alumnus
To each his own I guess, I have had a pretty fun time with Articuno hail stall, and I'm pretty sure neither Zapdos nor Moltres could have replaced him there. Not having to worry about spikes/t-spikes takes pressure off my spinner. Steels apart Articuno has greater neutral coverage, than the other 2 birds with their 2 move STAB combo.
 
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