Strategy Analysis: Doom Desire and Future Sight (revived)

obi

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(This was originally just Doom Desire, but I added a few things about Future Sight, too)

Doom Desire is a "Steel" type move. It has 5 base PP, 120 base damage, and 85% accuracy. It damages 2 turns after the turn it is used. So it goes something like this:

Turn 1:
You Doom Desire
They do something

Turn 2:
You do something
They do something

Turn 3: You do something
They do something
They take damage from Doom Desire

Future Sight follows the same pattern, except it has 80 base power and 90% accuracy, along with having 15 PP.


There is no randomization in their damage. No matter how many times you use Doom Desire / Future Sight on the same Pokemon, it will always do the same damage.

Doom Desire is based off Attack. Max Attack Adamant Choice Band Jirachi does significantly more damage than one without a Choice Band, which does more than minimum Attack Modest.

It is based on the Attack at the time of using Doom Desire. If I use Doom Desire, then they Charm me 3 times, it would do the same damage as if I were Swaggered 3 times after using Doom Desire.

Future Sight is based on Special Attack. The same rules apply.

Doom Desire is also affected by Defense. 0 Defense, 0 HP Blissey (neutral nature) is OHKOed by Choice Band Adamant Jirachi. Max Defense Bold 0 HP takes 59% damage. This is the maximum damage predicted by the damage calculator, indicating that the randomization part of the battle damage formula is skipped entirely. A Choice Band Adamant Jirachi will deal 383 points of irresistible damage to any Pokemon in the game if it targets 252 Defense Bold Blissey.

It is based on Defense at the time of choosing the attack. If you target Doom Desire on level 1 Chansey, and then they switch to a level 100 Skarmory, Doom Desire will OHKO Skarmory. On Netbattle, however, this is bugged, so that it uses the Defense at the time of striking, meaning you can boost damage by using Doom Desire, and then using Screech before it hits.

Future Sight is based on Special Defense. the same rules apply.

Neither of them get STAB. I lowered Jirachi's attack to equal that of a Choice Band Smeargle, and both did 169 damage to the same Blissey.

Begin Turn #6
Heracross used Endure!
Heracross braced itself!
---------------------------------
Heracross took Doom Desire's attack!
(12 damage)
Heracross fainted!

Doom Desire is neutral to everything. Nothing is weak to it, and nothing resists it.

Tyranitar took Future Sight's attack!
(32% damage)

Max Attack Adamant Choice Band Jirachi Doom Desire does 36% damage to max HP, max Defense Impish Skarmory.

Max Special Attack Modest Mewtwo does 11% damage to max HP, max Special Defense Calm Blissey. However, standard Blissey has no Special Defense. Future Sight from the same Mewtwo then does 14% to max HP, 0 Special Defense neutral natured Blissey. By comparison, Psychic does ~20%

Damage comes after Leftovers.

They do not activate Shell Bell.

They hit Shedinja.

Doom Desires cannot be stacked. If Doom Desire is used, it will fail until the previous Doom Desire attacks.

Doom Desire cannot work if Future Sight is in the queue, and vice-versa.

Future Sight cannot be stacked.

They cannot be Protected against.

Destiny Bond does not work with either.

Say my team is Smeargle and Jirachi in 2v2. The enemies are Geodude and Charizard. Smeargle uses Doom Desire on Geodude. If Jirachi uses Doom Desire or Future Sight on Geodude, it will fail, but if it's used on Charizard, it will work. Smeargle can use Doom Desire / Future Sight on Geodude, and then use it on Charizard next turn without fail.

/edit: added some stuff
//edit: Changed title to match rest of forum
///edit: Added Future Sight
////edit: This is all in Advance on Netbattle, so if this doesn't match in-game, tell me.
\edit: 2v2 info
\/edit: Updated info on when it factors in Defense
 
Obi2Kenobi said:
Stat uppers do alter Doom Desire's damage in a normal way.
..so passing swords dances would help doom desire? If so, *maybe* it could be useful, certainly less predictable then the current jirachis that are walled so easily by claydol and eq lax, nice guide!
 

obi

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Oh, a few more things I thought of:

Doom Desires cannot be stacked. If Doom Desire is used, it will fail until the previous Doom Desire attacks.

Doom Desire cannot work if Future Sight is in the queue, and vice-versa.


choop said:
..so passing swords dances would help doom desire?
Yes.

nice guide!
Thanks
 

obi

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OK, these are the 4 circumstances I have thought of in which Doom Desire is useful:


Nothing resists it. Nothing is immune.

End/Substitute Flail/Reversalers. If you hit them as they sub/bring them down to enough HP as they endure, Doom Desire will kill them.

Subseeders. Break their sub, and you can actually do some damage to them with Doom Desire, instead of watching them heal the 25% from their sub with Leech Seed.

Stuff like Ninjask, with low HP. Doom desire, break their sub as they SD, and hope they don't BP that turn.
 

Arkeis

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Whoa, I never knew Doom Desire had all those qualities, especially the Shedinja part. Nice job, Obi.
 
The trick is to fool them into sending their Blissey in on your Jirachi, and then use Doom Desire. It doesn't matter what, something will die. You can then switch to something like Machamp to force them to lose someone else who is less exploitable than Blissey.
 

obi

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Here's something that I'm sure some of you glossed over:

"Max attack adamant CB Jirachi Doom Desire does 36% damage to max HP, max defense Impish Skarmory."

What this means is that Jirachi with +6 attack, even without a CB, can OHKO most anything in the game with spikes. This is the damage to max defense, max HP Deoxys-LG:
Maximum Damage 289 (remember, ignore random number, so just take the highest). Deoxys-LG has 304 max HP. If you were to, say, Body Slam it on the turn Doom Desire is to hit, then you OHKO even without spikes. Weezing takes 357 damage, which is well over the maximum. If Skarmory has 320 HP and 416 defense, it survives with 1 HP, so even Shuckle constrict can kill it.

Eagle just had the great idea of putting a Leppa berry on it, and using Ingrain Smeargle to pass. Doom Desire only has 8 PP with PP ups, and with the myriad pressure Pokemon... The set for this would be:
Protect/Substitute (I prefer Protect, he likes Sub)
Doom Desire
Wish
HP Steel

The only Pokemon that a +6 attack Jirachi can't break the sub of is a max HP, max defense Lanturn, and even then, it's only a 20% chance that it will stay up. Suicune takes 1/3+

Something else: because Doom Desire's damage comes after the actual battle, it cannot be countered/mirror coated.


A good general (no BP) set is thus:

Wish
Protect
Doom Desire
Body Slam (for 60% Paralysis, 100% accuracy, and something else to run off that decent attack if need be)

Subbing Gengar>This set, however, but few people would switch Gengar into a known carrier of Psychic.
 

obi

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Just reporting in the the effectiveness of this.

Doom Desire Jirachi is the best Ninjask counter ever. Body slam their subs, and they die to Doom Desire. If they pass the turn they'd die, they risk their recipient getting paralyzed (60%), unless it's a ghost...
 
Can I change that to Rhydon? Anywho I believe I said best counter to ninjask, not ninjask and magneton. It's all pbpwm in the end.
 
It looks quite circumvental as far as I can see, but it's good to see guides on such a complicated move anyway.

Also Doom Desire's accuracy is quite gay...does Compoundeyes Skill Swapped on fix that? And does Future Sight work exactly the same?
 
haha that's sick. I always though doom desire was useless :|

CB Jirachi looks kinda cool thanks to this guide :)

Body Slam/Shadow Ball/Doom Desire/ HP Steel
 
I like this guide. I didn't know most stuff about this attack! Too bad Jirachi can't learn Swords Dance, right? Anyways, I'm begginin to like this CB Jirachi idea. Thumbs up.
 

obi

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I've found Doom Desire is working well on my 9 immunities team, as I can just switch around, taking no damage, but when they think I'll just switch again, I Doom Desire, so I am certain to seriously damage someone, then paralyze their next person on the switch with Body Slam. :) A CB would also work, but I need Jirachi on my team for Wish. :(

Adding more stuff about Doom Desire to the first post...
 
this is VERY cool, I always wanted to incoporate Future Sight in a counter for SubSeed Whorepluff in UU, I guess this is better (Read: actually does something)
 

obi

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Unfortunately, only Smeargle and Jirachi learn Doom Desire, so it can't be used in UU.
 

RicepigeonKKM

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I use DD on my 2vs2 supporter Jirachi, and I tell you it's funny when you see your opponent switch in some sort of physical wall in (who uses walls in 2vs2 anyway?) and DD ends up KOing the other poke.

Combo that with HH and Icy Wind on the same Jirachi and theres a force to reckon with, especially since the majority of 2vs2 is sweepers.
 

obi

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I've gotten a lot of questions about this recently for some strange reason, so instead of having to sift through 6 pages or archives or whatever each time, here it is again.
 
doom desire is a skarmbliss counter sort of. you doom desire and on the third turn they switch to skarm and you thunderbolt on the switch! it can only kill skarm though.
 

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