Sun / Moon In-Game Tier List

[Soanevalcke6]

Salamence (caught as is lol)
Availability: BAAAAAAD. Like, absolute bottom-tier, as bad as it can possibly get.
As good as everything else is about Mence this is obviously the biggest kicker against it. 1% chance to encounter Bagon on Route 3, then 1% again for Mence to show up as reinforcements. If you do this early, you NEED to stock up on resources (and I don't think PP-recovery can even be bought at this point or maybe ever, which is a BIG timer on your ability to keep SOS-chaning bagons), and if you do it later, it surprisingly takes some babying to get up to speed (thankfully Mence's slow exp gain isn't too noticeable this early). If you can conquer the odds, though it's all downhill from there.
/quote]

Doesn't Availability refer to when in-game you catch it, not how hard it is to catch? Also, isn't it around a 1/7 chance of 1%!Bagon summoning Salamence?

I don't think we should tier Pokemon factoring in their encounter rate, because it's entirely possible to get a Salamence as it's first summon, no Adrenaline Orb even required. It should be mentioned in the Additional Notes or something how difficult something may be to encounter, but I don't think this should lower it on the tier list, Because then it's not in a spot that accurately reflects how it does in game.

 

[Banryu]

Doesn't Availability refer to when in-game you catch it, not how hard it is to catch? Also, isn't it around a 1/7 chance of 1%!Bagon summoning Salamence?

I don't think we should tier Pokemon factoring in their encounter rate, because it's entirely possible to get a Salamence as it's first summon, no Adrenaline Orb even required. It should be mentioned in the Additional Notes or something how difficult something may be to encounter, but I don't think this should lower it on the tier list, Because then it's not in a spot that accurately reflects how it does in game.

IMO it should be a factor, just because of how long it CAN take (took me a full day/night, approx 12 hours on and off) just to get one to show up. But, I leave it to the rest of the thread to decide this.

 

[Codraroll]

Doesn't Availability refer to when in-game you catch it, not how hard it is to catch? Also, isn't it around a 1/7 chance of 1%!Bagon summoning Salamence?

I don't think we should tier Pokemon factoring in their encounter rate, because it's entirely possible to get a Salamence as it's first summon, no Adrenaline Orb even required. It should be mentioned in the Additional Notes or something how difficult something may be to encounter, but I don't think this should lower it on the tier list, Because then it's not in a spot that accurately reflects how it does in game.

Allow me to argue heartily against this. Well, attempt to anyway, I've had two nights with little sleep and I'm writing this while watching a movie. My language may not be the best right now.

We HAVE to factor in the encounter rate when tiering Pokémon. Tiers are meant to reflect the performance of the Pokémon. How effortlessly they play through the game. Or rather, their relative lack of deficiencies, it boils down to the same. And availability can certainly be a big deficiency. Pokémon that are hard to come by are less reliable for an efficient/effortless playthrough. The hours you probably need to spend finding Salamence could be better spent, you know, progressing through the game.

The chance of a 1%-Bagon summoning Salamence is, to my knowledge, not 1/7, but 1/100. That means you have to go through an expected value (look up that term) of 200 turns of battle before you find Salamence. 100 1-turn battles to find Bagon, 100 turns of Bagon battle before Salamence arrives. That is possibly the most grind-requiring Pokémon to find in any game, even worse than D/P Feebas. And grinding is antithetical to effiiency.


It is entirely possible to get Bagon as your first encounter, and Salamence as its first summon. The odds are roughly 1/10,000. Given that Sun and Moon have sold some 7 million units already, that should mean that more than 700 people have experienced this in their first play-through of the game. It is also entirely possible that Metronome will keep giving you 100+ BP moves every time you use it, or that Magnitude will strike 9 and 10 consistently. Or that Focus Blast will never fail you in crucial moments. But it's not something we can rely on. And that is the crux of the tiering. How much can we rely on this Pokémon to help you through the game, in every aspect of its being?

Salamence is unreliable. Period. Spend half a minute for every turn/encounter on average, and you may expect to spend three and a half hour finding it. You may find it sooner. Other people will find it later. But for the average player, across a large number of people, three and a half hour is the expected value. And that's not counting how easy it is to catch. That is detrimental to Salamence's reliability.

Overall, Salamence would perform very well if every player could be expected to find one with little effort. It is a very powerful and versatile Pokémon, after all. But the effort required to find Salamence is tremendous, which drags it far down the rankings.

 

[DHR-107]

Doesn't Availability refer to when in-game you catch it, not how hard it is to catch? Also, isn't it around a 1/7 chance of 1%!Bagon summoning Salamence?

I don't think we should tier Pokemon factoring in their encounter rate, because it's entirely possible to get a Salamence as it's first summon, no Adrenaline Orb even required. It should be mentioned in the Additional Notes or something how difficult something may be to encounter, but I don't think this should lower it on the tier list, Because then it's not in a spot that accurately reflects how it does in game.

IMO it should be a factor, just because of how long it CAN take (took me a full day/night, approx 12 hours on and off) just to get one to show up. But, I leave it to the rest of the thread to decide this.

Availability is basically how easy something is to obtain. If its common and powerful it will nearly always be ranked above something which is very rare and powerful. Chances are, with Bagon/Salamence, we will add a note to Bagon's entry to simply say "We don't think its worth SOSing for 'Mence, but if you do it is incredibly powerful immediately". A 1% of a 1% is incredibly low. You don't have intimidate at this point either in order to proc the higher level of SOS mons. User Elcheeso managed to get a Shiny Bagon before he got a single Salamence to spawn...

Basically what CodraRoll said above me in less words :P

 

[Banryu]

Salamence is unreliable. Period. Spend half a minute for every turn/encounter on average, and you may expect to spend three and a half hour finding it. You may find it sooner. Other people will find it later. But for the average player, across a large number of people, three and a half hour is the expected value. And that's not counting how easy it is to catch. That is detrimental to Salamence's reliability.

Overall, Salamence would perform very well if every player could be expected to find one with little effort. It is a very powerful and versatile Pokémon, after all. But the effort required to find Salamence is tremendous, which drags it far down the rankings.

This right here, pretty much.

I will be the first to admit that Salamence is pretty much not worth it, like, at all. I straight-up wanted to do it for bragging rights more than any other practical purpose (and I suppose it's good I did since I can contribute this at the very least, lol). Thinking about it further, I'd appraise it at D-Tier / lower-mid at highest. This is a mon with huge drawbacks to getting, and only quite good payoff that's not quite equal to the cost of getting it (unless you're like me and just want a tiny salamence because the thought of that is adorable. But.... yeah, practical purposes somewhat wanting, like I said)
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So uhh, in other news... I wonder if maybe Shellder should be higher...? (I'm thinking like... D -> C-tier?)
Can be obtained as early as post-Lana's trial (waiting to beat Kiawe might be more practical though so Charizard can be used to fly back), and it struggles a bit at first, but Icicle Spear is really strong this early in the game, even without skill link (about 2 hits KOs most things weak to it in Lush Jungle that are the same level as Shellder), and it can be evolved even earlier (IIRC Water Stone comes before Mallow's trial). Early Ice coverage is really good and Cloyster can pretty much take on anything that uses physical moves, regardless of SE matchups.

If you wait for Razor Shell, that + Ice shard is a pretty easy KO on most things that don't resist it, its only real issue is no moves to hit Water-types outside of Hidden Power and Poison Jab (which comes kinda late). It's got its problems but it's worked well for me so far in my second playthrough.

 

[R_N]

This is really minor but we should probably tier Gengar (No Trade) and Politoed (No Trade) (a bit hesitant on this one) separately because they play differently from their counterparts with trade. And AFAIK these are the only trade evolutions you can get by SOS.

I feel if Politoed was put on in that way it'd need to be bottom tier. SOS in the rain, in an area of the game where it will not always be raining. I've STILL not seen it rain. And I think weather SOS encounters might be rarer than normal.

and on top of that you just get a...politoed. Seems kind of mediocre in the best of times unless you further luck out and get one with drizle, but I'm no politoed expert

 

[Karxrida]

I know we typically don't tier by comparing one Pokémon to another, but you are seriously better off catching an easily obtainable Drizzle Pelipper instead of trying to find an SOS Politoed.

Politoed (No Trade) should be in one of the lower tiers, if not Bottom.

 

[Paddywagon Man]

Just realized you can actually get Paras in Brooklet Hill, missed that first time 'round. Doesn't change much though.

 

[Codraroll]

Basically what CodraRoll said above me in less words :P

Why are half of my posts responded to with variations of this line? :(


Nah, just kidding. By the way, I echo the general sentiments about Salandit and Salazzle. A little too weak to OHKO, a little too frail to reliably get the chance to 2HKO. Finding a female one is not hard if you put your mind to it, though. While the odds of finding one is 1 in 8, the odds of having found one after 6 encounters is less than 50 %.

Minior is awesome, though. Keep its health up, and it will be immune to status, at least on the first turn (as Shields Down will only activate at the end of the turn). It can be taught Acrobatics once obtained, for powerful and reliable STAB. U-Turn makes it a good pivoter and/or scout. It has Defense enough to survive an attack, hit back, then Shields Down activates and it hits first on the next turn, even harder than last time. If you anticipate a status move, it can even be switched in safely. Minior is awesome, but not sure which tier I'd put it into. I've got a lot more utility out of it than Munchlax, though, and that's in A, but I used the event Munchlax which doesn't come with Leftovers.

Magnemite is Top tier, no question. Hits like a tank, takes hits like a tank. Very tanky, overall. I don't know if anybody has argued to remove it from Top, but I'd object to it.

 

[Afti]

I know we typically don't tier by comparing one Pokémon to another, but you are seriously better off catching an easily obtainable Drizzle Pelipper instead of trying to find an SOS Politoed.

Politoed (No Trade) should be in one of the lower tiers, if not Bottom.

It's not even just Pelipper. I'm just going to list off everything that plainly outclasses Politoed which you can get easily before Politoed bothers to show up. This assumes you don't take Popplio, too:

-Pelipper
-Gyarados
-Wishiwashi
-Araquanid
-Starmie
-Feraligatr/Azumarill if you wanna mess with QR mons
-Vaporeon
-Poliwrath
-Hell, may as well even include Slowbro, if you're willing to SOS scum for Politoed anyway

It's one thing not to penalize mons for being outclassed by specific things, (ex: other Electrics don't get a not-Magnemite penalty) but I feel like it's worth understanding that Politoed is one of the worst members of a class of Pokémon with lots of mons ranging from amazing to at least usable. If you're going to use Politoed, you're using it over all of these. And all of these mons bring things to the table that Politoed doesn't, whereas Politoed doesn't really have anything notable (you won't get Drizzle, and also Pelipper actually stands a chance at having Drizzle anyway and it's better at exploiting it) over any of its competitors.

 

[Paddywagon Man]

Yeah, I'm with Afti on the Politoed issue. I think even Cloyster or Tentacruel would outperform it - dual-type mons are usually better in-game, which is all about offense. Having a second STAB is very useful. Politoed is definitely near the bottom when it comes to Water types.

But don't cry Politoed, you're better than Alomomola and Goldeen!

 

[Lucchini]

I think Pelipper is too overrated personally. Sure, rain-boosted Scalds never grow totally obsolete but does it really offer much else? At least Wishiwashi can tank better and has more varied tools available before endgame (when Pelipper gets Ice Beam and Hurricane). Way too one-dimensional. The reason we favoured mons like Marill is because they aren't limited to performing the same attack over and over - Azu had great coverage and dual STABs early on. Pelipper doesn't even get Air Slash (but unevolved Wingull does fsr).

Munchlax is another weak link definitely. Very slow and no super-effective STAB against anything, so it won't hit particularly hard.

 

[Carrier]

Never used exp share until post E4.

Might've missed it, but has anyone actually made a case for Gyarados being S tier or is it just a given? Don't get me wrong, I played through with it and it puts in WORK and is easily S-tier, but it's just kind of funny not seeing anything on it :P.

Misdreavus is a solid early-mid choice, but needs TMs until Hex (~22?) to do decent damage. Great stats for being such an early 'Mon, but lags near Poni and late 3rd island, especially unevolved. It's frustratingly frail, though, especially when it seems everyone and their mother has a dark type move in this game.

Lycanroc-day was a solid member, out speeding virtually everything I came up against and hitting hard with rock-slide/stone edge. Rockruff was solid until the early 20s, at which point it's power and speed were pretty underwhelming (best STAB is TM rock tomb until ~l34 rock-slide) though unfortunately due to timing it went about another then levels past, making it take a LOT of babying. A fast rock type is just amazing, though, and IIRC it 2HKO.

Rowlet is...tough. Early on, barring surprise ember Smeargle, it held its own throughout early and mid, struggling only with Lurantis Castform. When it goes Decidueye, though, it runs into the same feeling I had with Misdreavus; everyone in the world has a dark type move and is out to get you. Now, when not being blown to smithereens by a knock off or sucker punch or crunch, it did pretty well. Other than Lycanroc-Night, he pretty much solo'd the rock Kahuna, trial and E4. Didn't accomplish much else, though it did do decently well against Hau's Raichu and Lusamine, as well as non-SE captains. Probably mid, nothing more, nothing less. Easily the worst starter.

By the way, does Pelago mining count towards tiering? Some Pokemon have relatively rare stones that are pretty easy to get if you use Pelago, but take forever otherwise, IE dusk stone@ Poni Wilds.

 

[R_N]

The problem with pokepelago is it's random and to get best results you need to put in the beans & capturing lots of pokemon to buy new islands and upgrade them. I was using the stone hunting path in the most optimal position (level 3, using 12 hours worth of beans) but I didn't get a second Dusk stone until after beating the game and completing most of the pokedex.

 

[Paddywagon Man]

Yeah I can confirm Carrier's point - Dark-type moves are EVERYWHERE. It's really quite annoying. But Eviolite helps a lot before the Dusk Stone arrives, and Mismag's stats are pretty good after you get the stone. If you don't have somebody to trade with, and don't want to scum for a Gengar, Mismagius is a good replacement - much better than unevolved Haunter. And Hex at lv. 23 works so, so well with Thunder Wave.

 

[Banryu]

So uhh, in other news... I wonder if maybe Shellder should be higher...? (I'm thinking like... D -> C-tier?)
Can be obtained as early as post-Lana's trial (waiting to beat Kiawe might be more practical though so Charizard can be used to fly back), and it struggles a bit at first, but Icicle Spear is really strong this early in the game, even without skill link (about 2 hits KOs most things weak to it in Lush Jungle that are the same level as Shellder), and it can be evolved even earlier (IIRC Water Stone comes before Mallow's trial). Early Ice coverage is really good and Cloyster can pretty much take on anything that uses physical moves, regardless of SE matchups.

If you wait for Razor Shell, that + Ice shard is a pretty easy KO on most things that don't resist it, its only real issue is no moves to hit Water-types outside of Hidden Power and Poison Jab (which comes kinda late). It's got its problems but it's worked well for me so far in my second playthrough.

Following up on this, I just did the Ghost trial and Cloyster wrecks it, it should def be said. Icicle Spear + Smart Strike destroy Mimikyu, and it can tank the liddle lookalike's attacks like nobody's business.

 

[Plebidise]

I don't get why Wingull is THAT great. He is barely A tier at most tbh. He takes quite a while up to the 2nd island of babying and scald is great but he lacks other good coverage moves until much later so I had to stick with air cutter for plenty of levels until Hurricane at level 55. Pelipper has below average stats even with drizzle and drizzle can be used against him if you have a fire type on your team that you need to switch out which can cause some minor conflicts. And Ice Beam/Blizzard is the only non-stab decent coverage move I could find. Pelipper is also pretty slow at 65 base speed and 60/100/70 defenses is going to have pelipper potentially faint by strong special attackers later on before he could even touch anyone. I feel like wingull should be moved down to B tier tbh due to his relatively big drawbacks and his limited tools that is only drizzle/scald with using roost.

 

[Ossum Opossum]

Masquerain for High. (A)

This will definetly sound odd, yes. But Masquerain is suprisingly useful in this game!

Availability - Masquerain is available midgame, in Malie Garden. This means there is no need to raise it from a weak Surskit. You can also catch a Surskit in Brooklet Hill, if you can't wait, though that was not what I did.

Typing - This is probably where Masquerain falters. Bug/Flying is an infamous type, with 4x weaknesses to Ice and Rock. I wish it kept Water/Bug.

Stats - Masquerain got REALLY GOOD stat buffs this gen, which makes it so much more usable! It has 100 special attack and 80 speed now, which do not seem like much but it outspeeds a LOT of the dex.

Movepool - Air Cutter when you catch/evolve to it, which is decent for a main stab until you get Air Slash at level 38 and Bug Buzz at level 42, which are excellent for it. At level 52, it gets Quiver Dance, which is fucking amazing and you know it. Alas, who knows if you would even level it up that high?

Major Battles - Guzma's Golisopod always gets Emergency Exited by Flying STAB. His whole team is weak to it. Hala lol. It also helps for Lusamine's Bewear. Most Bug and Fighting types die to it. Nanu can be got rid of easily due to bug stab as well. If you're brave you can also oneshot Hau's Raichu with Bug Buzz lategame. Oh and Acerola's Dhelmise gets destroyed.


While I'm at it, A-Eggexutor for low tier. Sadly you get him incredibly late and he seems to level up slowly. He does get Leaf Storm, so not all is lost.

 

[hypno28]

^It's not 4x weak to Ice. Just Rock.

 

[Carrier]

Masquerain for High. (A)

Hide

This will definetly sound odd, yes. But Masquerain is suprisingly useful in this game!

Availability - Masquerain is available midgame, in Malie Garden. This means there is no need to raise it from a weak Surskit. You can also catch a Surskit in Brooklet Hill, if you can't wait, though that was not what I did.

Typing - This is probably where Masquerain falters. Bug/Flying is an infamous type, with 4x weaknesses to Ice and Rock. I wish it kept Water/Bug.

Stats - Masquerain got REALLY GOOD stat buffs this gen, which makes it so much more usable! It has 100 special attack and 80 speed now, which do not seem like much but it outspeeds a LOT of the dex.

Movepool - Air Cutter when you catch/evolve to it, which is decent for a main stab until you get Air Slash at level 38 and Bug Buzz at level 42, which are excellent for it. At level 52, it gets Quiver Dance, which is fucking amazing and you know it. Alas, who knows if you would even level it up that high?

Major Battles - Guzma's Golisopod always gets Emergency Exited by Flying STAB. His whole team is weak to it. Hala lol. It also helps for Lusamine's Bewear. Most Bug and Fighting types die to it. Nanu can be got rid of easily due to bug stab as well. If you're brave you can also oneshot Hau's Raichu with Bug Buzz lategame. Oh and Acerola's Dhelmise gets destroyed.


While I'm at it, A-Eggexutor for low tier. Sadly you get him incredibly late and he seems to level up slowly. He does get Leaf Storm, so not all is lost.

Just on paper, it sounds relatively impressive for early game. Intimidate is a fantastic ability, evolves early, and has a encounter rate of 20% 40% at Brooklet, though admittedly only at night. I could also see this as a solid answer to the dreaded Lurantis battle, which was IMO the hardest part of the early-mid game, by being evolved right about that time, resisting both of Lurantis' attacks and being able to soften the blows for other Pokemon via Intimidate. Poor thing gets obliterated by the SOS Trumbeak and Castform, though, but hey, you can't have everything. A (relative to Alola's constant speed tier tragedy) remarkably fast U-Turn and Intimidate could give it a nice position as a lead on some of the tougher fights, especially given how U-Turn is almost immediately available upon hitting the third island. Should bonk Nanu pretty well too, barring Power Gem A-Persian.

Actually, it sounds pretty great. Not bad at all, and definitely could have some fun U-Turn'ing into powerhouse and S-tier mon Gyarados for virtually disabling the physical attacker of your choice. I'm assuming it'll be absolutely dead weight for the dozen or so levels until it evolves, though.

Just out of curiousity, should/would encounter chance and time-specific encounters count towards the bottom line rank, or at least bear special mention? It's been done for the more heinous examples like Slowbro, Salamence, and some weather encounters, but I haven't seen any precedent for less extreme, non-SOS cases.

 

[IOS]

Masquerain for High. (A)

This will definetly sound odd, yes. But Masquerain is suprisingly useful in this game!

Availability - Masquerain is available midgame, in Malie Garden. This means there is no need to raise it from a weak Surskit. You can also catch a Surskit in Brooklet Hill, if you can't wait, though that was not what I did.

Typing - This is probably where Masquerain falters. Bug/Flying is an infamous type, with 4x weaknesses to Ice and Rock. I wish it kept Water/Bug.

Stats - Masquerain got REALLY GOOD stat buffs this gen, which makes it so much more usable! It has 100 special attack and 80 speed now, which do not seem like much but it outspeeds a LOT of the dex.

Movepool - Air Cutter when you catch/evolve to it, which is decent for a main stab until you get Air Slash at level 38 and Bug Buzz at level 42, which are excellent for it. At level 52, it gets Quiver Dance, which is fucking amazing and you know it. Alas, who knows if you would even level it up that high?

Major Battles - Guzma's Golisopod always gets Emergency Exited by Flying STAB. His whole team is weak to it. Hala lol. It also helps for Lusamine's Bewear. Most Bug and Fighting types die to it. Nanu can be got rid of easily due to bug stab as well. If you're brave you can also oneshot Hau's Raichu with Bug Buzz lategame. Oh and Acerola's Dhelmise gets destroyed.


While I'm at it, A-Eggexutor for low tier. Sadly you get him incredibly late and he seems to level up slowly. He does get Leaf Storm, so not all is lost.

It's stuck with 60 BP STABs until Lvl 38 without the bulk to keep it going until its offense catches up. I can't see that being A-tier material at all.

 

[Lucchini]

If I'm reading Masquerain's moveset right, it should skip learning Air Cutter on evolution and learn Quiver Dance instead. That is, assuming it works the same way Abra evolving does. Can I get a confirmation?

As fascinating as L22 Quiver Dance may be, what's it going to use it with? Bubblebeam and Hidden Power?

 

[CalmBatRadio]

Lycanroc-day was a solid member, out speeding virtually everything I came up against and hitting hard with rock-slide/stone edge. Rockruff was solid until the early 20s, at which point it's power and speed were pretty underwhelming (best STAB is TM rock tomb until ~l34 rock-slide) though unfortunately due to timing it went about another then levels past, making it take a LOT of babying. A fast rock type is just amazing, though, and IIRC it 2HKO.

I found Lycanroc-D rather underwhelming, especially towards the third island. I can't recall a particular time in which I thought to myself 'Lycanrock can win this whole battle for me' due to its frailty, and low damaging moves. It does get Stone Edge, but not until late-game the lack of PP can be annoying when trying to power through a whole route. This meant I was relying on Rock Slide and Crunch for the majority of the game. I suppose if I didn't have Dewpider or Salazzle it may have been useful for the Fire trial and Guzma respectively. I spent most of the game wishing I had picked up something like Mudbray instead.

EDIT:
I also wanted to comment on Hariyama/Makuhita. Its sitting in A-Tier right now and I don't feel like it should be.

On the plus side, I will say that Makuhita is very easy to obtain, has great bulk and hit's pretty hard, especially with Close Combat late-game.

However, I found very little use for the mon in my playthrough. By the time I cleared the Elite 4 (I never turned off the EXP share and picked it up on the first island) It was more than 8 levels below my second lowest-level mon. It was so rare for me to find a situation where I wanted to switch it in because it is so one-dimensional - it pretty much only learns normal and fighting moves. It is incredibly slow as well. I feel like faster options like Primape, or even Poliwrath with it's coverage (water, hypnosis) would have been far more useful.

 

[hypno28]

If I'm reading Masquerain's moveset right, it should skip learning Air Cutter on evolution and learn Quiver Dance instead. That is, assuming it works the same way Abra evolving does. Can I get a confirmation?

As fascinating as L22 Quiver Dance may be, what's it going to use it with? Bubblebeam and Hidden Power?

No. It learns Scary Face by level-up when it evolves and doesn't have an "Evolution Move." If Quiver Dance were one, it'd be listed twice at the top of the list. (I thought the same thing when I decided to use it in-game...I was so annoyed when it got fucking Scary Face instead. Edit: I guess it learns both that and Air Cutter.)

Masquerain is one of my favorite 'mons, and I used it in a playthrough. It was pretty solid, but it was never as good as I wanted it to be. Butterfree was better when I used that.

 

[Carrier]

Lycanroc-D wasn't a total team sweeper for the most part, but whenever I needed it to do work it always held its ground, though admittedly I did Hard Stone it for the extra oomph it lacked without it. I guess it's value depends on if playing Set or not. I remember Hypno, Guzma, and the flying E4 person being particularly dismantled by it. Crunch / Brickbreak / Stonedge / Rock-slide is relatively good coverage and accounts for PP limit on stone edge; accelrock is really tempting, but it's going lightspeed compared to over like 90% the Dex already; the only time accelrock really saved my bacon was against Mega Alakazam, but that's post E4 anyway.

I'm not saying hold the presses, Top tier guy right here, but just from recollection it was easily on par with Mismasgius, which is B-tier.