Resource SV Doubles OU Viability Rankings

Last minute noms.

:Sylveon: Sylveon 4 -> 3

The best fairy type pre-home, not exactly much competition, but with the right speed control it can blow past teams.

:iron bundle: Iron Bundle 2 -> 1

To be honest, this one I'm least sure about, it's certainly tier 1 as long as Hydro Pump lands, but that isn't a given.
It's Freeze-Dry and Icy Wind are however very reliable and useful. Also, should Walking Wake turn out to be good, it will have to live in fear of Bundle.

:Garganacl: Garganacl 3 -> 2

It is true that it has had a bad winrate in seasonals, but I believe it´s ability to effortlessly withstand attacks from the best pokemon in the tier deserves mention.

:Meowscarada: Meowscarada 4 -> 3

Great STAB attacks which threaten a large part of the meta, and one of the few remaining Knock Off users.

:roaring moon: Roaring Mid 4 -> 3 or 2

Best TW setter in the tier, it can only be stopped turn 1 by Murkrow or Booster Energy Iron Bundle.

:Tsareena: Tsareena 4 -> 3

Priority attacks run rampant this gen, and Tsareena is the best answer in non TR teams.
 
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bagel

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:Iron-Hands: -> Tier 1

Just supporting this nom made previously by others. I think AV is the most splashable mon in the tier with its bulk, utility, and immediate damage; however SD might be an even better set. Swords Dance sets can invest fully in bulk and live stuff it absolutely should not be able to, then recover all the damage back with Drain Punch. With correct support (taunt or other Amoonguss hate, redirection, screens/veil) SD Hands can steamroll through teams easily.

:Maushold: -> Tier 3

I think this mon is still relatively unexplored, with most people opting for a fully offensive population bomb set (which is still good, pop bomb kills things) but even without a partner as obvious as ape I think Friend Guard sets can be valuable to enable other partners *cough* Hands *cough* and can just ruin opponents gameplan by just raising KO thresholds when they aren't expecting it. I also think this thing should always run Feint, such an underutilized and valuable move, especially next to oppressive partners such as Chien Pao.

:Kingambit: -> Tier 3

Nom being made generally because its just a huge statstick thats pretty flexible. Defiant is still very good even if Intimidate feels less common. Does find itself competing with Hands for team slots sometimes, but it does appreciate it as a teammate as well. Good on Rain, good on TR to punish snarl, decent into Chien-Pao + Dnite if you can deal with Sacred Sword. Goggles to ruin Amoonguss' day is nice, and AV tanks any neutral hit.

:Roaring-Moon: -> Tier 3

Fast Tailwind with stats is hard to be bad, and after people realized this was a tailwind bot and not supposed to get KOs it became a lot better. Compete's with Murkrow but Moon's exceptional special bulk is quite nice, and Tera-Flying Acrobatics does serious damage. Band and LO are scary on sun but thats more niche. I also think taunt is valuable here but its hard to spare a moveslot.

:Gyarados: -> Tier 4

One of the best Great Tusk answers in the tier which can be a godsend to bulkier teams that can struggle with the mon running them over. Bulky support is the only real set. Intimidate + Dragon Tail makes for good synergy with hazards, does enough damage to not be ignored, and Taunt + t-wave can be invaluable support to enable setup partners. Not very splashable and only really valuable on specific team comps.

:Tauros-paldea-aqua: / :tauros-paldea-fire: -> Tier 4/5:

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-doubles-ou-viability-rankings.3710905/post-9478658 This still applies. Fire has Wisp which is nice, and forces Bundle to use Hydro Pump rather than freeze-dry, but still doesn't like seeing it.

:Abomasnow: -> Tier 4

Aurora Veil is a broken move with very little opportunity cost, and Aboma offers just enough value outside of it, as well as Iron Bundle Blizzard, which is the best spread move right now. Grass is a good type right now to avoid spore and resist ground, even if Chi-Yu blows it up. Aboma does enough damage and threatens veil so it often opens up space for its partner. I do think you are required to run Bundle and Hands next to it, but thats not really a bad problem to have.

New

:Walking-Wake: -> Tier 3

Pretty much only a sun mon, but sun is good so this is good. Strong water coverage is super valuable for sun teams and Wake sits at a nice speed tier to take advantage of its great SPA. Speed or SPA proto boosts are both valid, while LO, Specs, and AV all seem like valid items. If you're not using it on Sun I think you're wasting it, but could be slotted in on rain as a built in sun check if necessary.

Falls

:Gholdengo: -> Tier 2

Has always been a Tier 2 mon imo, it just loses too hard to too many of the top threats. Bulky Specs / Nasty plot are the best sets and can rip through teams if positioned correctly. Scarf is bad and running no bulk is asking to get outsped and OHKO'd even next to Murkrow.

:Ting-Lu: -> Tier 3

Tippity top of Tier 3, could still be 2 ig. Has become a bit of a tera-hog, which is a bit unideal from your do-nothing fatmon. Running attack to OHKO Chi-Yu is bad, don't do it. Not being able to sit in front of Hands is bad, taking half from Dragonite Espeed is bad. However if you can deal with its threats the mon can absolutely absorb entire teams. Leftovers+Protect is the best set, even on hazard teams (just run another phazer if you want). Taunt, Snarl, Throat Chop, Heavy Slam, Sand Tomb, Ruination, can still bring value and make the mon pretty customizable, it just struggles into the meta right now.

:Wo-Chien: -> Tier 4

If Ting-Lu is too passive and doesn't have good matchups into top mons, Wo-Chien is even worse. Total tera-hog. I do agree AV is the valid set, just don't think its Tier 3 worthy.

:Grimmsnarl: -> Tier 5

Just run Abomanow, it also enables Bundle Blizzard. Grimmsnarl often finds itself dead weight on the field, screens aren't worth the investment of running Grimm without Ape to take advantage of them. Often too scared to parting shot into a Dark/Defiant/Clear Amulet mon that it doens't even run the move.

:Azumarill: :Ceruledge: :Oranguru: :Rotom-Heat: -> UR

Have not seen anything to make me think these are DOU mons.
 
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Glimmer

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:walking-wake: T3
This is the mon sun was looking for. Really good speed, good special attack, access to a Water-type move boosted by Sun to get rid of the pesky Garganacl and Fire-types, access to Sun boosted Flamethrower to kill Grass-types, 4x resist to Palafins Jet Punch, but it still dies to Iron Bundle. Really good mon in Sun with an okay niche in Rain to counterteam other Sun.

RISE

:iron-hands: T2 -> T1
Everything that i wanted to say about this mon has been said, simply too splashable and too valuable to be T2.

:roaring-moon::hydreigon::iron-jugulis: T4 -> T3
These are the best offensive tailwind setters in the metagame with all different attributes. Roaring Moon (who is the best of the bunch) and Jugulis are really fast when it comes to Tailwind setting, and Hydreigon is really strong with STAB Draco Meteor and brings the Dark/Dragon typing to the table that Roaring Moon has along with the Earthquake immunity Jugulis has.

:maushold: T4 -> T3
Good support in Follow Me, Population Bomb is deadly, fast enough too. Maushold has really good attributes but is held back by relatively low usage and Iron Hands' omni-presence, but it can take advantage of Hands too with Encore and even Super Fang. Solid support mon with offensive presence.

:arcanine: T3 -> T2
Intimidate with resistance to Fire- and Ice-type attacks (notably from Chi-Yu and Chien-Pao) has proven to be really valuable in my opinion, as the tier is infested with physical attackers, almost half of which hate getting burnt or even just Intimidate cycled. It also has a bunch of support options and can act as an offensive pokemon too with Extreme Speed and Flare Blitz. Versatile mon overall and can fill holes easily.

DROP

:gholdengo: T1 -> T2
Gholdengo HATES Dark-types and Iron Hands. Especially Chi-Yu being extremely relevant and Sun only getting better with the release of Walking Wake, Gholdengo is having a tough time. Spore immunity and being a Steel-type is still really valuable and it can still dish out a lot of damage ,and take random hits when it runs bulky. That doesn't change the fact that the meta developments have really been against its viability. Solid mon, just doesn't love whats going on in the tier as of right now.

:chien-pao: T1 -> T2
Probably my hottest take in the post. Chien Pao is definitely a broken mon, capable of threatening most structures. But it simply isn't valuable in as much teams as the other Tier 1s. It is only really broken in 2-3 playstyles (Priority Spam and Fast Offense, kinda Rain?) and only good in most of the others. The value it brings to these teams are enormous, but that does not change the fact that its value in other teamstyles is lackluster compared to other Tier 1s. Iron Hands' viability and splashability also really hurts Pao.

:glimmora: T2 -> T3
Glimmora is similar to Chien-Pao and Indeedee-F in a sense, as it enables 2-3 playstyles and is fine in some others. But Glimmora in my opinion should be placed lower than Chien Pao and closer to Indeedee-F as it is far less broken. And it is also easier to interrupt than Pao, Amoonguss especially causes issues, which is kinda bad for it as Ting-Lu and Wo-Chien (the best beneficiaries of Toxic Spikes in balance teams) also do not particularly enjoy the presence of Amoonguss.
 
:Gyarados: Tier 5 -> Tier 4

Gyarados has solid utility as Intimidate bulky support/attacker. Good util moves in Taunt and Thunder Wave, and Intimidate is very valuable with the slew of physical attackers running around. Can even run helping hand, which is always appreciated in a pokemon. Tera Ghost and Ground allow it to either ignore Banded Dragonite Extreme Speed or ruin Iron Hands, which doesn't always have room for Ice Punch. Dragon Dance sets aren't seen as much anymore, but they can sweep if left unchecked for two or three turns, especially with Amoong or Indeedee support.
 

PikaSpark

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Hello, my noms are just repeating some of the others', but still wanted to give my thoughts.

:Wo-Chien: T3-->T4

I am not, unfortunately, a Wo-Chien believer. It feels very passive in many situations, and pressured to Tera because the Grass/Dark it starts with is just a very bad defensive type. Tablets of Ruin "the new intimidate" looks good, but in reality it feels like it can't do too much against two of the big physical attackers rn until it Teras, and being forced to tera is never a good thing. Super-effective Ice Spinners from Chien-Pao, Close Combats from Iron Hands bother it, to a lesser extent offensive Arcanine and Meowscarada (U-Turn) too. Keeping itself and its teammates alive forever with LSeed and Pollen Puff is definitely a selling point, I didn't use this a whole bunch so I might be missing out on something. I still dont think this is good enough for T3, however.

:Arcanine: T3-->T2

It can fit on HO teams using sets like Offensive AV, CB, can fit on balance builds to do what it was made to do with Wisp and Snarl. A positive matchup into the current T1s + Iron Hands. It packs a good ability, good moves. Its flexibility makes me feel like it can be at least low T2.

:roaring-moon: T4--> T3

yes i am copypasting everyone else, but Roaring Moon is literally Murkrow with stats, it sets Tailwind, thats a rare attribute to find these days and I feel like its one of the best. It usually only does two things, but its good at them: set tailwind and hit things for some good chip when you have no reason not to. Thats not to say its a one-trick pony though, sometimes can run Choice Band / Life Orb sets to wreck havoc under Sun, and I've actually seen a set that runs all of Breaking Swipe, Snarl, and Taunt that focuses more on support. Rarer, but Dragon Dance sets could work. Anyhow, feels better than the majority of Tier 4.

:scream-tail: T5 --> T4

I am EXTREMELY insecure about this, but hear me out. Scream Tail's got some valuable support tools that can help you out. The most relevant one is probably Encore, fast Encore is always a good thing, locking slower mons into Protect and Fake Out. Thunder Wave and Disable are also quite useful under the right circumstances. Excellent bulk is always a blessing. Dont get me wrong, though, Scream Tail's still got problems. Its passivity hurts it alot, 65/65 offenses is pitiful, does no damage and lets opponent reposition almost freely if a pokemon doesn't mind Thunder Wave. There will be situations where it just sits on the field doing nothing. Folding to Taunt and Gholdengo hurts it as well. Despite all this however, I am of the opinion that Scream Tail's supportive capabilities give it enough of a niche to sit in low T4.

Edit: lol i forgot but it also gets Howl and Fake Tears, helping teammates dish out massive damage slightly makes its passivity better :)))

Other rises/drops I support are

:Gholdengo: T1-->T2
:Tauros-Paldea-Aqua:/:Tauros-Paldea-Blaze: UR --> T4/T5
:Iron-Hands: T2-->T1
 
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Kinda random but im noming Slither Wing to tier 5 it fits nicely on sun as it can smash terra dnite and get nice momentum with u-turn first impression is a good priority to force protects or pick off certain targets held back by ass defensive typing, lack of coverage, and needing to be on sun to get best results, and 4 Mss, but if used properly can be a be a big threat. sets are Life Orb/Booster with the above attacks and protect, Choice band run a filler in last slot I like Wild Charge for terra water shits or flare blitz/Stomping to hit gold, and Av can be decent haven't found the best evs yet probably something like 3hkoed by gold needs Fb/St to hit gold back tho. Other stuff: you also cant touch not terraed Dnite so that sucks and mence is a hard counter but I don't use un mons so that doesn't matter however arc threatens big Dmg with Fb on you so keep that in mind when think about intim users. (no sprite for paradox mons yet I think :sob: also sorry for ass grammar and punctuation)
 

Actuarily

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We have an updated VR slate! Thank you to everyone who nominated:

Votes:
:Abomasnow: UR -> T4
Actuarily: Tier 4. Hail is surprisingly good as aurora veil makes many already bulky Pokémon extremely fat. You’d think that running multiple ice types would be difficult in a meta where the top threats are Chi-yu, Gholdengo, Iron Hands, Chien-pao, etc., but Aurora Veil is often plenty to make Pokémon like Iron Hands, Sylveon, Farigiraf, Armarouge, Ting-Lu, (and the hail boost + aurora veil on AV Iron Bundle) etc. extremely difficult to take down. Hail’s been winning a lot of games so despite Aboma’s poor defensive typing (which can be solved by a Tera obviously) it’s definitely T4 material.

Yoda2798: Tier 4. Abomasnow is an Aurora Veil bot which is also an okay Trick Room attacker, but that’s good enough for its role. It’s obviously a mainstay of FanRoom but has also seen some use elsewhere, bagel has an Abomasnow team that’s been fairly successful on ladder and in Seasonals, and in DPL we’re seeing a few other teams opting to use it.

Nido-Rus: Tier 4- enables aveil semiroom stuff but in itself is certainly not great. Often forced to be the tera user since ice/grass is an awful defensive typing. Hail buff has been good for it but only helps so much with that typing.

SMB: Tier 4, the only viable screens setter since the beginning of the gen

JRL: T4. Aurora veil + tera water is good in this poke. Aboma helps iron bundle blizzard spam and makes hail a place in the meta as we've already seen with the fangame team.

Madaraaaa: T4. Aboma benefits from snow def boost and helps bundle to endure physical hit and use blizzard free. Good stab offensively but suffers too many pokemons defensively and is not easy to put the aurora vel without using the tera (that seems a waste on this pokemon). In semiroom teams there are many better choices.

Yobuddy: Tier 4. Abomasnow has pretty good synergy with some of the best pokemon in the tier and while I don’t think it is particularly good outside Frosty Fanroom it plays its role well enough.


:Tauros-Paldea-Blaze: UR -> T4
Actuarily: Tier 5, worse than Arcanine, because the fighting type is a negative defensively (Arcanine being a good switchin into fairies is really important), and it has less bulk. The only reason I can see for this being used is due to raging bull to help eliminate aurora veil since Hail has picked up.

Yoda2798: Tier 4. Viable Intimidate alternative to Arcanine, with a different statline and a valuable secondary typing in Fighting in a meta full of Dark-types and meaning Stealth Rock is only neutral. Has access to Will-O-Wisp, like Arcanine but unlike its Aqua forme, which is nice too.

Nido-Rus: Tier 4. Solid bulky intim pivot, basically an alternative arcanine with the same defensive stat total that trades a bit of special bulk for a bit more physical bulk. Less useful lately since hands can just sit in front of it and set up, and tera fire invalidates tauros pretty hard.

SMB: Tier 5, worse than arcanine (tier 4) as an intimidate mon and can’t run offensive sets, well ig it can but I wouldn’t recommend it

JRL: T4. intimidation, screen breaker, WOW and its bulk make this poke useful, it can do well against tier 1 pokes and it definitely has its niche

Madaraaaa: T4. The stats are not so good but the ability and the possibility to break screens and burn phisical attackers are great. AV set is okay in general, is a good switch resisting and killing chi yu and gholdengo, premier special attackers of the meta.

Yobuddy: Tier 5. It’s a decent Intimidate mon and the Fighting typing and Raging Bull can be useful over using Arcanine. Its special bulk is quite poor and while it might check Chi-Yu’s STABs on paper, it still takes heaps from Chi-Yu’s resisted moves.


:Iron Moth: UR -> T5
Actuarily: UR, great duu mon, but hasn’t really been used in Dou. A lot of the nomination is theory, and I think the meta has developed enough that we’re past the point of just theory.

Yoda2798: UR. There’s zero teams where Iron Moth is the pick over Chi-Yu, it’s pretty much as outclassed as you get. Beads of Ruin >>>>>>> no Beads of Ruin.

Nido-Rus: UR. I can potentially see some use in adapting vgc sets with booster acid spray or something, but it certainly hasn’t seen any usage or success I can think of in DOU. Need to see more of this for non-UR.

SMB: UR. Submit replays please.

JRL: UR. There are better fire types and better poison types, it can do damage with booster energy, but it has hardly been used and I think it doesn't have much potential.

Madaraaaa: UR. Chi-yu is too dominant, iron moth is faster but doesn’t have beads of ruin and has a worst typing. Is difficult to justify its presence in a team instead of chi-yu.

Yobuddy: UR. I’m really not sure when you would ever want to use this mon over Chi-Yu. Chi-Yu has the advantage of being immune to opposing Beads of Ruin so I wouldn’t even say it has a better Iron Bundle matchup than Chi-Yu.


:Talonflame: UR -> T5
Actuarily: UR. Hard to justify using over Murkrow, who gets priority tailwind at all times, vs just full hp, who gets more bulk with eviolite (if you want a bulky set), and gets more offense. I don’t think wisp is really enough to justify it being used over Murkrow, especially since wisp is either burning a tailwind turn or losing your priority tailwind.

Yoda2798: UR. Negligible usage, I don’t see much reason to use this. Talonflame only gets priority Tailwind once, and is somewhat forced into leading to get it otherwise Stealth Rock or chip damage can break it, which is more of a problem for it in DOU than VGC. Murkrow is better for priority Tailwind, and other Tailwind setters like Roaring Moon are also better than Talonflame.

Nido-Rus: Tier 5, actually matches up pretty well into a good chunk of the top few tiers. Hard to justify using this over murkrow, but wisp and faster attacks make it pretty usable.

SMB: Tier 5, although it was better when amoonguss was on every team. It’s nice in teams like sand that need to deal with grass types and appreciate a ground immunity and speed control for garchomp

JRL: T5. Tailwind with priority turn 1 is always good, but I think a more defensive set can do a better job with WOW or taunt, I think it can be used on some teams.

Madaraaaa: UR. I don’t see the potential that has in vgc. Seems a waste to use the fire slot for talonflame. Simply there are better tailwind setters that has sinergy with teams and offer more offensive power.

Yobuddy: UR. It has some decent tools on top of priority Tailwind but it doesn’t really see much use, nor is priority Tailwind something teams are desperate for considering Roaring Moon is rising as the premier Tailwind setter.


:Chien-Pao: T1 -> T2
Actuarily: T2. It’s a great offensive threat and enabler of other offensive threats, and as Yobuddy said priority spam with it is a huge threat that has to be accounted for in the builder. However, it’s hard to fit on teams due to its awful defensive typing, and a lot of the biggest threats in the tier are really good into it, bumping it down to t2.

Yoda2798: Tier 2. Still a critical member of certain teams, but meta trends have been unkind to Chien-Pao making it a bit worse than before. Iron Hands and Iron Bundle are two of the top Pokemon and match super well into it, Hands can comfortably eat a hit then hit back, even capable of healing back the damage with Drain Punch, while Iron Bundle outspeeds even without Booster Energy, with Icy Wind breaking Focus Sash and neutralising Chien-Pao’s Speed advantage for a slower teammate like Chi-Yu to finish off before it can move, while being able to take a Sucker Punch well. Sun rising up with Walking Wake is also not the best for it, and there’s been an uptick in Tailwind usage with Roaring Moon (being used outside of sun teams as well) which also hurts due to how much it relies on Speed. Priority blockers and Trick Room existing also don’t help, though Throat Chop sets are more effective at stopping the latter from going up. Still a great and important Pokemon, but no longer amazing as an individual Pokemon in the current meta.

Nido-Rus: Tier 2. Still a very strong option that enables a playstyle on its own, but in itself not a broken threat. Forced to run sash due to bulk/typing, which means it often just barely misses out on KOs. Recent meta trends have made it a lot easier to outspeed this with a lot of bundle, photosynthesis, scarf etc, along with more psychic terrain and trick room making this thing exert less consistent pressure.

SMB: Tier 2 or 3, I already explained why this wasn’t close to tier 1 on the last slate.

JRL: T2. I think that now we are more prepared to play against the priority teams that a few months ago dominated the meta, it is a hundred that chien pao continues to be a very strong threat and that if we talk about the offense he does a great job alone and helping with his ability let his teammates hit harder, but right now I think he is not tier 1.

Madaraaaa: T2. Strong pokemon especially in lead thanks to its coverage. The ability is broken and allows teammates to be so offensive. But is not at the level of tier 1 pokemons, especially iron hands own it.

Yobuddy: Tier 1. Priority spam is a looming threat over the metagame and Chien-Pao is the playstyle’s primary enabler. In 10/12 games in DPL week 1 at least 1 team had a priority blocker and a number of games had both teams running one. All of the priority blockers lose to Chien-Pao anyway unless they Tera, so Chien-Pao is going to be of value in nearly every game.


:Hydreigon: T4 -> T2
Actuarily: T4, has some value as a bulky tailwind option, and being a ground immunity is great, but it has to choose between being bulky or offensive. It’s typing can be quite bad into a lot of the top threats, often forcing it to Tera, which you’d probably rather use on a more valuable mon.

Yoda2798: Tier 4. Neat Tailwind option, offering Draco Meteor and Levitate to the table, but Hydreigon is too niche for Tier 3. Dynamic turn order means having your Tailwind setter move first is really important, and Hydreigon is worse than Roaring Moon and Murkrow (and Iron Jugulis) in that regard. Being a fast Tailwind setter is really important, so it’s difficult to justify Hydreigon over Roaring Moon right now, despite the differences it has.

Nido-Rus: T4. I would’ve voted this to tier 3 a month ago but right now is pure hands meta. This is actually not bad against hands, especially with a tera, but it ends up being too reliant on having tera available. Being a levitating mon actually works against it here and leaves hydrei open to fake out or other priority.

SMB: Tier 4, i feel like you need to use tera on this more than you should for it to be relevant enough. It still has a okish typing vs stuff that is relevant atm, 4 is fine.

JRL: T4. If it had prothosynthesis it would be more used than moon since it takes better advantage of its esp attack than moon physical attack. It has good support moves and great offensive power, but there are other pokes that tailwind better.

Madaraaaa: T3. Is not so used now cause bundle and iron hands are everywhere. But a bulky tailwind setter can be great with tera fire/poison and levitate is also amazing. Has taunt, snarl, draco meteor and for me is tier 3.

Yobuddy: Tier 4. Probably one of the better tier 4s and at one point I might have been willing to rank it at tier 3. It’s really hard to justify using it over Roaring Moon, which is tier 3 at best itself. Base 98 speed really sucks as a Tailwind setter since you are slower than Chi-Yu which still does heaps of damage even with resisted moves. Bulkier sets making use of Levitate + Tera are pretty interesting but not enough to make me want to rank it above tier 4.


:Arcanine: T3 -> T2
Actuarily: T2. Arcanine is the second best fire mon with a few different sets. It has good bulk, reasonable offenses, and a great ability. It checks virtually all the top threats (excluding Palafin/Bundle), and is good into sun and hail. The only issue is that because it can check so much, it can get worn down easily trying to stop multiple top offensive mons. Wisp/snarl with morning sun can slow down offensive teams, while AV with good coverage can switch in on almost everything and eliminate those threats.

Yoda2798: Tier 3. Arcanine isn’t something that can be slapped on teams and perform super well, its utility is useful to certain teams but it’s far far away from being as splashable as something like an Incineroar, despite being the clear best Intimidate available. Chi-Yu is in a different world from Arcanine as a Fire-type, offering much better damage output while still having Snarl (but it does actual damage), and can run bulky sets with Assault Vest for utility as well (Chi-Yu can technically also use Will-O-Wisp too but I’m not a fan). Meanwhile Arcanine is often not as bulky as you’d like (being weak to attackers you’d like to Intimidate such as Great Tusk and Palafin doesn’t help) and doesn’t do as much damage as you’d like either. MADARAAAA brought up a good point that Arcanine’s weakness to Stealth Rock hurts its ability to switch in and out for utility as well. Even if you’ve made the big decision not to use Chi-Yu as your Fire-type, Armarouge is another viable option Arcanine fights against,, and the Tauros formes give it competition as an Intimidate user too. Arcanine needs the right team to justify its place and be effective (and when effective doesn’t reach the heights some of the other Pokemon in this format do), it’s simply not good enough for Tier 2.

Nido-Rus: Tier 3. Still a decent good mon, but doesn’t fit the ‘premier’ level that tier 2 pokemon are at. Often just a little too short in terms of bulk, damage, sponginess, etc.

SMB: Tier 4, support sets are still not good enough but they are not lower than tier 4 and offensive sets are worse, no reason to place this higher than 4

JRL: T2. It can play multiple archetypes and is very useful with its WOW + snarl set, and it also does a great job with a more offensive set. Intimidation gives great team support.

Madaraaaa: Tier 3. Versatile. Can be AV/Band/supporter with wisp and snarl. But bundle, palafin, glimmora also are too common and arcanine seems not to be able to control the field, this meta is too offensive right now. And a supporter that suffers hazards and has the flare blitz recoil is not the best, thats why I think offensive arca is better. Not enough to be in tier 2.

Yobuddy: Tier 3. Anything tier 2 or above is at least a little bit broken and Arcanine isn’t broken at all. It is quite solid and is able to fill its role in a team and is probably one of the better tier 3s but it just isn’t on the level of the tier 2s.


:Pincurchin: UR -> T4
Actuarily: UR. Gamefreak really needs to swap Pin’s hp and attack stat, and give it the good electric moves, and maybe we can talk. Just is a waste to use such a low bst mon.

Yoda2798: UR. This is an incredible waste of a slot, Pincurchin as a standalone Pokemon is just so so so so so bad, and getting Electric Terrain out of it is so not worth it. Iron Hands is the one Electric but doesn’t care about the power boost, especially when Close Combat is just as strong as Wild Charge with a boost anyways, while the general Attack boost from Quark Drive is not at all worth using Pincurchin for. Iron Bundle likes to run Booster Energy anyways, getting another item on it is also not at all worth using Pincurchin for. As YoBuddy said, Ice Spinner exists if you want terrain control, and if you just want to check PsySpam then there are plenty of good Dark-types available.

Nido-Rus: UR. Pincurchin is worse than having no 6th mon, since you end up with a momentum drain do-nothing mon on the field. Furthermore, the good quark drive mons don’t actually care about the boost as much as the good proto mons do about their sun boost.

SMB: UR. Submit replays please.

JRL: T5. Electric terrain activates the ability to quark drive, helping these pokes to develop more potential, removes psychic terrain allowing them to use priorities. I've used band myself and I find it a decent attacker on tr, but support can do well too since it has attacks like toxic spikes or spikes

Madaraaaa: UR. Sad story for quark drive pokemons to have an electric terrain setter so poor. Really rare to see it in a team, too frail and with a bad movepool and stats.

Yobuddy: UR. This guy has next to nothing going for it. Giving your Quark Drive mon a 30% boost on a stat is not worth running something so frail, weak and slow. Not to mention you also give your opponent’s Quark Drive mons a boost as well as your own. If you want terrain control for your priority spamming mon Ice Spinner Chien-Pao is an actual good pokemon.


:Garganacl: T3 -> T2
Actuarily: T3, a really good defensive piece, but really really wants to run all 5 of Iron Defense, Body Press, Wide guard, Salt Cure, Recover, and can only run 4. Basically has to be built around to win games, and has to Tera to not get run over by Water mons and Gholdengo. Stil has merits though since it’s good into sun & hail, but often doesn’t have quite enough defenses to be the wincon vs these playstyles.

Yoda2798: Tier 3. Closer to a drop than a raise, Garganacl is so passive and we live in a society meta of incredibly strong attackers. Iron Defense practically requires Tera to have any chance as a win condition, but even then it’s not a super reliable one. Iron Hands is pretty nasty for Garganacl, and Swords Dance sets are much better set-up than it.

Nido-Rus: Tier 3. Garg usage continues to fall. Right now it’s usable but worse than ever, as SD hands is everywhere along with walking wake sun and just generally very strong hard hitters that can run over bulky hazard stack teams. Garg still a good enough mon on its own for tier 3, but as yoda said, it’s closer to a drop right now than a raise.

SMB: Tier 4, metagame developing on a more offensive one is very bad for it since it doesn’t have anymore all the turns it needs to be succesful

JRL: T3. he needs a lot of support to function. Iron def + salt cure + recover is so good, but I think the meta is developing more offensively and this makes it less opportunity to shine.

Madaraaaa: T3. If you are not prepared Garga can drain 3-4 pokemons of your team and win alone. But now the meta seems prepared, with extreme offensive pokemons that break the setup of Garganacl, or isolate it with trick or haze/taunt.

Yobuddy: Tier 3. This thing can pretty much single handedly win games against unprepared opponents but does require more support than pretty much everything above it. It also doesn’t shine as consistently as the pokemon in the top 2 tiers.


:Hatterene: T5 -> T3
Actuarily: T5. Has some merits on Fullroom due to its fairy stab, but yeah worse than Fari/Indeedee/Armarouge as others have noted.

Yoda2798: Tier 5. Farigiraf, and Indeedee (+ Armarouge) are better Trick Room setters, so Hatterene is really only an option on fullroom, which isn’t in an incredible place right now. Usable, but a very niche option.

Nido-Rus: Tier 5. This is forced to be run in fullroom since there are much better semiroom setters, and fullroom just isn’t much good right now with how many breakers run over it. No expanding force is rough.

SMB: Tier 5 i guess but every day that passes by it is more hard to justify its presence on a team

JRL: T5. Avoiding hazards and any status move is great, also attacking faerie with stab is very good. It only has room in full room teams, which means that this pokemon is not higher.

Madaraaaa: Tier 5. Armarouge is the premier psyspam abuser because works also not in trickroom and has fire type, Hatterene has not enough space. Without expanding hatt is nerfed, has good ability, fairy stab and decent bulk but nothing more. Even with redirection there are so many area attacks, is difficult to set up trickroom without taking so much damage.

Yobuddy: 5. Fairy typing and Magic Bounce are pretty nice but Farigiraf and Indeedee-F are better Trick Room setters and also share a typing with Hatterene. It doesn’t have Expanding Force anymore so the synergy with Indeedee isn’t even that good.


:Kingambit: T4 -> T3
Actuarily: T4. It has a great stat distribution, but awful typing in the metagame, often requiring it to Tera. With its low speed, TR is the best fit, but it’s bad into most of the natural TR checks. I just don’t see how this isn’t a wayyy worse Iron Hands, as a fat attacker.

Yoda2798: Tier 3. I voted this up last time, the rise of Iron Hands and sun (and decline of Gholdengo) aren’t great for it but I still think Kingambit’s worthy enough of Tier 3. Great stats, and is impressively bulky with Assault Vest, trading well into a lot of Pokemon, with Sucker Punch to finish them off helping make up for its low Speed. Can be an effective Tera user to remove its weaknesses and make it even more difficult to KO, while also enabling Tera Blast offensively. Rain is the most natural fit but it can work elsewhere too; I do understand the concerns about competition from and against Hands but get it onto your team and Kingambit can perform.

Nido-Rus: Tier 2. This thing is broken, I’m still in shock that more people aren’t using this. It can regularly fit on almost any team comp and does amazingly well there, often walling and beating a significant chunk of almost all teams. Pretty much always trades well.

SMB: Tier 4, non tr teams that feature this still look really weird to me, bad mu against sun and iron hands and using your tera on this is a big waste

JRL: T3. if you intimidate attack +1, has a good type, good bulk, has priority, wins a trick room. I think it does many things well and after gholdengo it will be the most used steel.

Madaraaaa: T3. In semiroom, fullroom is good. You need to be careful from the team preview vs kingambit. Defiant keeps distant intimidates. Has great Stabs and sucker punch, can use tera and endure fire, fight, ground moves. Stats don’t lie, with av can wall many spattackers and hits hard with dark and steel (and eventually fight or tera) moves.

Yobuddy: Tier 4. There isn’t really anything wrong with this guy but it faces so much competition for a team slot that you can’t often use it. Iron Hands has an extremely similar (but better) stat spread, Fake Out, STAB Drain Punch and wins the 1v1 easily. There are so many other good dark types that adding Kingambit to your team often stacks weaknesses. Defiant/Supreme Overlord and STAB Sucker Punch are cool but this is not the meta for Kingambit.


:Hariyama: UR -> T5
Actuarily: T5. Definitely worse than iron hands, but Guts + fighting and ground attacks makes this a very potent offensive threat under TR. The ability to fake out to help set up TR, and then immediately be a huge offensive threat is enough for t5.

Yoda2798: Tier 5. I’m reluctant on this because of the obvious “just use Iron Hands lol” but given the viable use of Hariyama alongside Iron Hands as a second Fake Out I think there’s enough in this to be ranked, especially when looking at the other Tier 5s.

Nido-Rus: Tier 5. As yobuddy mentioned, it’s hard to justify using this when iron hands exists, but I think there’s enough value in being spore immune and hitting significantly harder without boosts. Also allows you to run double fake out for more TR-heavy comps.

SMB: UR, just use iron hands instead. The only justification for tier 5 is fitting them both on the same team which honestly it’s not “bad”, but I wouldn’t say it’s ideal for a tr team.

JRL: T5. Guts + flame orb user, which increases his attack while also helping to TR with fake out. Headlong Rush is good coverage and does it well on TR.

Madaraaaa: UR. There is no need to use it on a team instead iron hands. Okay the guts boost, can be a bo1 surprise but nothing more.

Yobuddy: UR. I’m a bit torn on this one. I think Hariyama is better than most tier 5s in a vacuum but there really aren’t many good situations to use it on a team with Iron Hands being in the tier. I understand Facade/Headlong Rush make it do different things but the Spore immunity isn’t that big considering Iron Hands is happy to run Tera Grass for the ground resist anyway or can just run Safely Goggles if the team really needs it. The major use of Hariyama right now is as a potential option as the flex slot on Frosty Fanroom (which still runs Tera Grass on Hands alongside Hariyama anyway).


:Iron Hands: T2 -> T1
Actuarily: T1. Best individual mon in the tier, can be just a bulky Fake out mon or a great set up sweeper with SD. Can be extremely hard to take down, especially as it’s one of the best users of a defensive Tera in the metagame. Plenty has been said about it.

Yoda2798: Tier 1. The best Pokemon in the tier. Iron Hands is near impossible to OHKO, even 2HKOing it is a real struggle. Meanwhile it’s incredibly strong offensively, with even zero Attack investment Drain Punch always OHKOing no bulk Chi-Yu, while with full investment Wild Charge can even OHKO Hero Palafin. Drain Punch further improves Hands’ longevity, letting it heal back after a hit, making the increasingly common Swords Dance set a real menace. It’s also the best Fake Out user by a mile, and its low Speed (which doesn’t even matter that much when it tanks everything anyways) can easily become a positive when paired with Trick Room, which Fake Out makes even easier to fit. Steadily climbing up the round usage in Seasonals, Iron Hands is now the most used Pokemon in the tier, and even had >60% usage in Round 7.

Nido-Rus: Tier 1. By far the mon in the tier right now. Walls and beats a majority of the format with ease and is the primary matchup check when building any team whatsoever. Others have already explained its strengths well.

SMB: Tier 1, best pokemon in the tier and the most splashable one by far. Support, win condition, recovery, extremely hard to ohko… Great at anything it does

JRL: T1. Bulk, offensive presence, support, this poke has it all. It has defensive stats that make it very few to 1ko, it hits hard and can use SD + drain punch which is the best set currently, but the AV set also does a great job. You don't fail if you have it on your team.

Madaraaaa: Tier 1. Best pokemon in the tier. Amazing typing offensively, good fake out. AV/SD/Belly drum are sets reliable depending on the team. Almost impossible to kill in one hit also because can use a defensive tera, and with drain punch recovers soon. Good in full trickroom/semiroom/offensive teams. Literally useful in every type of team.

Yobuddy: Tier 1. The best pokemon going around right now. Excellent bulk, attack and access to the rare Fake Out make it valuable in pretty much every matchup. Swords Dance sets have been rising since the last slate, which really push it to being the best mon.


:Dragapult: T3 -> T4
Actuarily: T4. I definitely still think CB or DD has a place in the metagame, but it’s just hard to use consistently when it has bad matchups into hail/Iron Hands/Gholdengo/Iron Bundle. A lot of the dragons either outspeed or live it’s hits.

Yoda2798: Tier 4. I voted this down last time, Dragapult hasn’t picked up post-Flutter like some people thought it would. Its best attribute in its Speed is not as good as it seems on paper due to Booster Energy Speed Pokemon existing and there being a couple of fairly common Sucker Punch users going around. Physical sets can work with Chien-Pao, but still suffer from awkward STABs. I don’t think Dragapult’s good enough for Tier 3.

Nido-Rus: Tier 4 is fair. Recent meta trends haven’t been the best for it. Bundle almost exclusively runs booster now that wake is around, and both are common and beat pult hard. Scarf chi yu is also a lot more common. Meanwhile, no ape means screens setup teams are fully gone, which used to be one of its best matchups.

SMB: Tier 4, I don’t think any of their sets is very good atm, meta trends don’t benefit it either, supposedly it should have a good matchup against sun and i’m not even sure about that

JRL: T4. it can be physical or special, but you almost never introduce it to your team since there are pokes that do the job better. The DD set may have potential but it needs a lot of support and the energy boosted pokes put pressure on it as they outspeed it and can 1ko it.

Madaraaaa: Tier 3. Draga is strong. Band + clear body + tera dragon break sash and 2hit ko many pokemons. Suffers bundle boosted freezy dry but in general can do its job. Fits in semiroom/balanced teams, with support of ting lu and amoongus redirection. In the right spot can be unstoppable.

Yobuddy: Tier 4. Its great base speed is dampened by all the Quark Drive/Protosynthesis speed boosters (Iron Bundle, Roaring Moon and Walking Wake) running around that all threaten a KO on it. Band with Chien-Pao support is pretty solid but its other sets don’t do enough damage.


:Wo-Chien: T3 -> T4
Actuarily: T4. It’s defensive typing gets worse and worse, basically requiring it to Tera. Hard to pull off these defensive teams nowadays as it once was.

Yoda2798: Tier 4. Wo-Chien relies on its defensive abilities to be useful, but when its typing is threatened by many of the top Pokemon (Chi-Yu, Iron Hands, Iron Bundle, Chien-Pao) it requires Tera to even be able to do anything most of the time, and even when it does do something it’s not spectacular. Has too many weaknesses for a defensive Pokemon, and is too passive as well.

Nido-Rus: Tier 4. With the rise of SD hands, wake sun, etc, bulky passive damage teams are falling more and more out of favor, and wo-chien is no exception. It can still work, but it really needs a lot of support.

SMB: tier 4, awful matchup against the most common stuff atm, it can be useful on certain situations only because its ability but that’s pretty much it

JRL: T4. It is true that it has good ability and good bulk with some useful support moves like pollen puff, knock off or leech seed, but it has a bad type that makes it weak to many common pokes in the meta, which makes it difficult for it to work.

Madaraaaa: Tier 4. Too passive and with a bad typing, the ability helps the allie on the field to tank but in this moment the metagame is too offensive and Wo-Chien cannot shine.

Yobuddy: Tier 4. I can’t remember the last time I saw Wo-Chien do something particularly meaningful in a game. The typing is really bad for a defensive mon and it regularly needs to commit to Tera to avoid being KO’d. Even so it doesn’t really do much. We might see an SM Tapu Bulu situation where people start using it a lot at some point but otherwise I could see this dropping further in the future.


:Meowscarada: T4 -> T3
Actuarily: T5. Heading quickly for UR, as it’s main role was a breaker for defensive set up mons, and right now the main set up mon (Iron Hands) destroys it and heals back up.

Yoda2798: Tier 4. Meowscarada is still in the same place as last time, it’s a fast attacker but a Grass-type and has crits with Flower Trick, though those selling points are rarely worth it. Crits aren’t especially useful, Garganacl isn’t that big a threat and Intimidate usage is far from given. Chien-Pao does pretty similar things but a lot better, with the notable exceptions of hitting Water-types and Spore immunity. Meowscarada is a niche option and its low usage reflects that.

Nido-Rus: Tier 5. Kind of the opposite of what the initial nom was, but right now the metagame is just getting less and less favorable for this. Water type usage as a whole is down with only the rare palafin team or bundle which beats you anyway, along with bulky passive teams, ting-lu etc all being more rare. Meanwhile bundle, bulky chi yu, hands etc are everywhere, none of which meowscarada likes facing.

SMB: Tier 5, I voted to 4 last time because tspikes were pretty decent in a bulkier meta, it obviously still has that option but I don’t think it’s good anymore so we only have a fast attacker that crits, which is good, but mons that only trade 1 for 1 are tier 5 to me.

JRL: T4. It has not been used in the metagame, it is true that power trip is a very good attack + knock makes it have good coverage, but there are pokes that do their job better.

Madaraaaa: Tier 4. Too frail and outspeeded by two popular and strong pokemons like iron bundle and chien pao, and its damages are a little disappointing.

Yobuddy: Tier 4. Most of the things Meowscarada is supposed to beat (Garganacl, Intimidate) aren’t especially common, nor do most teams need to dedicate a slot specifically to beat them. Flower Trick is a great move but Meowscarada doesn’t have much going for it outside of that.


:Chi-Yu: T1 -> T2
Actuarily: T1. Sun is back on the menu now, and it enables so much outside of sun. Also is really good at utilizing Tera to just uno reverse card ko something that thought it would ko Chi-Yu. Is a little reliant on speed control, but it pairs so nicely with Iron Bundle, who is happy to provide that.

Yoda2798: Tier 1. Still has crazy damage output and contributes so much offensively to teams. Chi-Yu’s biggest drawback is wanting speed control to be most effective, but it’s still faster than anything not super fast, i.e. Gholdengo, Glimmora, Great Tusk, etcetera, while Iron Bundle exists and is amazing speed control, but is also especially great paired with Chi-Yu, so it’s really no burden. Recent meta trends have also helped it: Gholdengo being worse helps Chi-Yu as the clear best spread attacker, the addition of Walking Wake making sun better helps Chi-Yu, and the rise of Assault Vest sets lets it play a slightly different role and fit well onto even more teams.

Nido-Rus: Tier 1. Still a dominating threat and core mon in a lot of teams. The rise of assault vest, bulky specs, and bulky scarf have all made chi-yu a lot more sustainable for extended games.

SMB: Tier 1, sun being good is the last push it needed to be tier 1.

JRL: T1. It always does a good job, in sun it can ko any neutral poke with overheat and its ability makes teammates hit harder. Snarl bothers psychic spam a lot and with tera ghost you can avoid fake outs, it's definitely very good.

Madaraaaa: Tier 1. Best fire type with a strong spread move and amazing typing and ability. Even if resisted, the damages are insane. With a good speed control chi-yu can really break opponent’s field. The sinergy with iron bundle is perfect creating an oppressive lead. Tier 1.

Yobuddy: Tier 1. The best spread attacker in the tier and enables some of the other top mons, particularly Iron Bundle. It is very strong even without investment, which lets it experiment a lot with its set. Eragon has been hyping up AV and it seems pretty solid and helps keep Chi-Yu tier 1 for me.


:Sylveon: T4 -> T3
Actuarily: T3. Hard to position, but once you do it’s one of the most potent offensive mons in the tier. There’s like 4 mons that don’t mind fairy attacks (Amoonguss/Arcanine/Gholdengo/Glimmora ), and the top tiers are littered with Fairy weaks/low spdef mons. Unfortunately though that Fairy isn’t a very useful defensive typing, so it doesn’t find a lot chances to switch in. Really relies on TR to get off its attacks, too, which is what’s holding it back. Still the fact that this can just win games spamming fairy moves is enough for t3.

Yoda2798: Tier 4. Fairy typing is valuable with all the Dark-types in the meta, but Sylveon is just a little too weak, too slow, too frail. It’s so slow that Tailwind isn’t really enough (and means forgoing bulk for Speed), meaning you ideally want Trick Room to get the most out of Sylveon a la FanRoom. That leaves Sylveon pretty limited in teams it can fit on, and even on Trick Room it’s far from a necessity (with even FanRoom having alternate versions without it), so it’s not strong enough or splashable enough for Tier 3.

Nido-Rus: Tier 4. Others have covered it well- fairy is valuable but it really likes having trick room up without actually being threatening enough to help get trick room up. Meanwhile setup sets with cm are too passive and take too long to be threatening.

SMB: Tier 4, I don’t think cm is good but specs can be devastating vs many teams, it still needs some support tho

JRL: T3. I think it has its niche, it needs a lot of support and a lot of turns in battle if you use the CM set. The set specs with good speed control can do a lot of damage to teams and has good overall bulk, I think it has potential well used, I want to keep it in tier 3

Madaraaaa: T4. Has a strong spread move but needs support and with gholdengo so popular needs to tera to endure steel damages, also physical strong attackers are common and sylveon suffers. But in semiroom can do the best.

Yobuddy: Tier 4. Fairy is such a good typing in this meta and there are so few good fairies so Sylveon is in a decent spot. Unfortunately I think Sylveon is a little too weak/too frail, depending on the set, to be good enough for tier 3.


:Iron Bundle: T2 -> T1
Actuarily: T1. Best water in the tier, we’re not seeing much Palafin anymore due to how prominent priority blocking & sun have become. Great at either speed control or being offensive, and excellent partner for too offensive threats like chi-yu/Gholdengo/Great tusk. While it’s defenses are lackluster, people have found it doesn’t require much offensive investment, so stuff like bulky AV makes it really good.

Yoda2798: Tier 1. I’ve already been thinking about this for a while and am completely sold on it at this point. While people have focused on Iron Hands’ recent rise in form, Iron Bundle has also solidified itself as one of the best Pokemon in the tier. It’s the fastest unboosted Pokemon in the meta besides a rare Dragapult, and with best item Booster Energy, reaches ridiculous levels of Speed where even most Pokemon in Tailwind will be slower. That’s even without considering Icy Wind, after which practically everything even in Tailwind will be outsped. More importantly though, fast Icy Wind is effective with and against so many Pokemon, such as Chi-Yu for a fantastic partner, and neutralising Chien-Pao by breaking its Focus Sash and slowing its high Speed for a teammate to KO (also works against Glimmora). Additionally, Bundle has excellent offensive presence between its two STABs, with Freeze-Dry hitting Water-types super effectively being such a huge plus. Hitting so much super effectively then helps allow the option to invest in bulk without being too passive, as most of the sample teams do, and with Bundle’s naturally high Defence means it does have solid enough survivability. Iron Bundle is just such a great Pokemon and nearly always a good addition, like it’s on 4/6 sample teams and one of the two it isn’t is fullroom, it fits as speed control on goodstuffs, even if you have Tailwind, as a fast mode on semiroom, and even fits well on rain together with Palafin despite type stacking because of how valuable its speed control is and Freeze-Dry coverage is. Iron Bundle has consistently been 4th in Seasonals usage post-Annihilape, and in the last couple of rounds has moved up to 2nd behind only Iron Hands. One of the best and most splashable Pokemon in the tier, offering unmatched utility.

Nido-Rus: Tier 1. Booster bundle has shown to be a dominating metagame threat, and often the core focus of a lot of games is how to manage your mons to hang on to the few bundle checks you have.

SMB: Tier 2, probably the most threatening pokemon in the tier right after chi-yu, but it needs its presence to be at full potential, it’s somewhat frail with a bad matchup against iron hands. Great pokemon and probably the best at tier 2 but I don’t see at the level of the 2 pokemon in tier 1.

JRL: T1. One of the best speed control in the meta with icy wind, with booster energy it outspeeds the entire meta and if he plays with chi yu it is a great offensive threat because with freeze dry there are no pokemon that can resist it since it is a water type that win other type water. He has more support moves like encore or helping hand, but his standard set is already very good.

Madaraaaa: Tier 1. I don’t consider iron bundle and chi yu at the same level of iron hands, but I think also bundle deserves to be in tier 1. Moderates speeds on the field with booster energy plus icy wind, outspeeding many opponents pokemon even in tailwind. Has good offensive typing and has good sinergy with many strong attackers (chi-yu, gholdengo, great tusk…). Has the only flaw to be a little frail.

Yobuddy: Tier 1. While I think it is noticeably worse when not paired with Chi-Yu/Snow Iron Bundle is getting lots of usage. Being the fastest good mon is always a blessing, particularly when you have a speed control move in a post speed mechs meta. Its excellent neutral coverage combined with its speed allows it to almost always do something in a game.


:Roaring Moon: T4 -> T2
Actuarily: T3. Been seeing a ton of use on sun as a fast tailwind option, and it’s seen use as a defensive mon as well as offensive. Snarl + breaking swipe is nice at slowing down opposing teams, and if you expect it to be this set, it can also blitz you with offenses. Has grown into maybe the premier tailwind mon (in a tier desperately needing tailwind mons) so should be up in t3.

Yoda2798: Tier 3. bage1’s post summed it up well, when you frame it as a fast Tailwind setter first, with the damage being a bonus on top rather than its main purpose, Roaring Moon becomes a lot better. It’s one of the best, if not the best (I agree it is), Tailwind setters, and definitely gives Murkrow a run for its money. Moon has actually good stats, and while not as strong as an actual attacker unless you run an offensive set on sun, is enough for a Tailwind setter. I’m not yet convinced of Tier 2 though, its damage is too reliant on Tera and not every team will appreciate Tailwind enough to be worth it, especially when Iron Bundle is as good as it is and a great speed control option with (Booster Energy) Icy Wind.

Nido-Rus: Tier 3. Right now I’d argue this is the best tailwind setter in contributing significantly better bulk than murkrow, even if it does so at the cost of priority tailwind. At the same time though, its typing is still pretty bad and it really doesn’t do enough damage unless you burn a tera on it.

SMB: Tier 3 is fine because of the rise of sun and having a solid offensive presence, tier 2 is too much.

JRL: T2. Best tailwind setter after murkrow's tailwind pranster, great offensive presence with tera fly + acrobatics and also has a niche in sun teams with band. He has some good support moves like taunt, snarl, breaking swipe and does very well against psyquic spam. He is very useful in all matches resisting with his type all priorities except extreme speed, he is fantastic.

Madaraaaa: Tier 3. Sun is rising and roaring moon is a good tailwind setter and damage dealer, also supporter with bswipe, snarl. I like it. But the typing is not really good defensively and sometimes need to tera to avoid the ko, fight and ice moves are spreaded. Without boost energy or sun is under the blade of iron bundle and chien pao.

Yobuddy: Tier 3. It’s a fairly bulky and fast Tailwind bot. It is kinda forced to run Booster Energy to avoid losing to Chien-Pao and Iron Bundle and that only works on the first switch in. I still refuse to believe it has base 139 attack, its damage output is so disappointing, even with Tera Flying Acrobatics. Fortunately it has some decent support moves like Breaking Swipe, Snarl and Taunt that you can use on bulky sets too.


:Tsareena: T4 -> T3
Actuarily: T4. Good on rain & sun, priority blocking is once again huge, but unfortunately grass is becoming less of a good offensive typing, leaving it to often just pivot. In many matchups against not priority spam, it just can’t accomplish much.

Yoda2798: Tier 4. Tsareena is nice on rain, but it’s not worth using outside of that. It doesn’t do loads outside of its ability, while Farigiraf and Indeedee can both block priority and do more on top (mainly, set Trick Room). Tera also decreases the value of a dedicated priority blocker since you can have e.g. Tera Grass for Jet Punch or Tera Ghost for Fake Out to help cover it already. So is Tsareena integral enough to rain to be Tier 3? I don’t think so, it’s not usually that great in games, and while being on the sample version of rain which sees the most use, rain builds without Tsareena are viable as well, e.g. with Amoonguss or Wo-Chien instead. Prio spam is also less common these days and rain is a little worse than before.

Nido-Rus: Tier 4. It works but palafin and rain have been getting somewhat less popular lately, and outside blocking palafin or dnite there isn’t really much other priority. Major setup and health recovery fodder for iron hands is also a big minus right now. No triple axel also makes it a lot worse into mons it would otherwise be great at checking, like amoonguss or Dragonite.

SMB: Tier 4 it’s a pretty average mon without its full movepool and its ability is not going to pay off in all games

JRL: T3. She is a great pivot and support for the team, she avoids priorities with his ability, she avoids spores and with taunt + helping hand you have everything you need. It works well in rain and in offensive teams and it conditions the opponent a lot in terms of using priorities against you and that for me has value.

Madaraaaa: Tier 4. I think performs perfectly in rain. The ability that prevents priority attacks is incredible. And that’s the main reason is used. Is a good spore immunity and has a good movepool with u-turn, but is too slow and suffers a lot of high tiers pokemons.

Yobuddy: Tier 4. It doesn’t see too much usage outside rain. Grass is getting less valuable as a typing considering Amoonguss and Palafin aren’t as common as they were and the top waters are Iron Bundle and Walking Wake (admittedly Walking Wake might drop off after the novelty wears off).


:Maushold: T4 -> T3
Actuarily: T4. Still can do some things with both its two sets, but definitely not worth a raise.

Yoda2798: Tier 4. This still hasn’t really proven itself any more since last time, its typing and stats hold it back defensively (especially as a redirector), and Population Bomb can’t carry it alone as an attacker. Scream Tail also gives it some competition as a fast support role as well, albeit offering different utility outside of Encore. It was best before as an option with Annihilape but hasn’t carved enough of a place for Tier 3 currently, though I do think it has potential.

Nido-Rus: Tier 4. I still do believe this has some kind of potential, but we really need to see this actually succeed for any serious conversation for a rise. Can do a lot but that bulk and typing stacks things heavily against it. I could see more use out of this right now with fewer normal resists running around, but still needs actual usage.

SMB: Tier 4, I honestly haven’t seen this since ape ban, if anything it has gotten worse with a more offensive meta…

JRL: T4. follow + population bomb is what makes it good, but it has a lot of very useful support moves. I think it has great potential but for now I agree that tier 4 is its place.

Madaraaaa: T4. I think now could be decent only for population bomb plus tecnician, fantastic move. Exist so many spread and strong attacks, Maushold seems not able to support well a partner.

Yobuddy: Tier 4. I was high on Maushold last slate but it offers so little defensively that the rest of the team can be strained to pick up the slack. The other glass cannons either have more speed, some defensive utility or can deal super effective damage.


:Walking Wake: New -> T3
Actuarily: T2. This has taken sun to a whole new level, and it’s actually one of the best sun checks in the game. It’s fine outside of sun, but on it it’s nearly impossible to check outside of Iron Bundle as it combines speed, offensive power, and coverage. Some people are already calling for a ban, so we’ll see what the survey results look like.

Yoda2798: Tier 3. Walking Wake’s a sun attacker, but it’s a really good sun attacker. Its typing is incredibly useful for sun teams to have, both offensively and defensively, because of Hydro Steam. With Protosynthesis as well, boosting nice baseline stats for an attacker, this is a beast in sun, and helps secure sun itself as being pretty good itself, so Tier 3 is reasonable. I’m unconvinced of it out of sun though, especially with Iron Bundle existing.

Nido-Rus: Tier 3, pretty much revived sun offense as a team archetype. This + chi-yu on sun is incredibly threatening. Water coverage is amazing for dealing with a lot of issues sun normally has as an archetype. When not on sun it's usable but not great, it often really needs the power and speed boost from sun to be threatening.

SMB: Tier 3 or 4, depends on how high you rate sun, to me atm it’s tier 3 but i see it falling to 4 eventually. I also don’t get why this is getting usage outside of sun teams.

JRL: T3. I put it tier 3 because outside of the sun it will hardly be used, but in sun it is too destructive and conditions the build of the opponents if you don't want to lose against this poke. Dragon + water makes it take a few hits and there are few pokemon other than iron bundle that can deal with it safely. It has very good coverage of offensive moves and the sun combines too well with hydro stream that is broken.

Madaraaaa: Tier 3. Waking Wake has a complete coverage with dragon, water, fire moves and in sun teams works really well. Resists fire, water, steel and this is a great quality, can switch easily in front of these moves. But suffers bundle freezy dry and I don’t see it at the level of tier 2 pokemons.

Yobuddy: Tier 3. Really strong on sun and Hydro Stream gives it a niche nothing else has ever had. Being able to choose between a Special Attack or Speed Protosynthesis boost by only dropping 8 EVs from Special Attack gives it some flexibility. I haven’t seen too much of it outside sun, so Tier 3 seems fine right now.


:Gholdengo: T1 -> T2
Actuarily: On the fence, but I will still vote t2, despite me getting 6-0’d by the nasty plot version. It still has this weird dichotomy where it’s either amazing or bad into like every top Pokémon in the tier. Still a huge offensive threat and can switch into a decent amount, and we’ve started to see more defensive Tera types than just steel, but it still has too many bad matchups for t1.

Yoda2798: Tier 2. Agree with YoBuddy, the rise in Iron Hands is incredibly sad for Gholdengo, and one of its big selling points in natural Spore immunity isn’t as valuable as it once was. Kingambit has also taken its place as the preferred Steel on rain teams, and with the shift from older Murkrow teams to newer Roaring Moon ones for Tailwind setters, Gholdengo is being used less with the latter.

Nido-Rus: Tier 2. Spore immunity is a lot less valuable, iron hands matches up too well into this, and just really doesn’t like recent meta shifts with bulky chi-yu, more sun, more great tusk, way less bulky hazards phasing teams, etc.

SMB: tier 2, this should have never been tier 1 and I already explained why on the last slate. Amoonguss dropping in usage and iron hands and sun rise is even worse for it.

JRL: T2. The pokes that stop gholdengo are the ones that are increasing in use, which makes it look less and doesn't do its job as efficiently as it did weeks ago. Its nasty set is very dangerous and with tera agua it becomes very annoying, but I think tier 2 is its place currently

Madaraaaa: Tier 2. Sun is rising, iron hands also has a good matchup vs gholdengo. But this pokemon has a steel double target attack, with good stats, can be used specs or scarf with trick (useful) or bulky with nasty plot and is immune to secondary effects of moves. So is still really strong.

Yobuddy: Tier 2. The rise of Iron Hands as the number 1 pokemon is one bad matchup too many for Gholdengo. At least with all the good dark types it can still damage them back or Tera Steel to remove its Ghost weakness but Iron Hands just shuts it down so well. Amoonguss isn’t being spammed as much and teams are becoming more comfortable with Spore immunities so Gholdengo isn’t needed as often.


:Iron Jugulis: T4 -> T3
Actuarily: T5. Can set a fast tailwind, but just has the same typing as so many of the other tailwind mons that it’s worse than, and doesn’t have much use outside of setting tailwind if not on rain.

Yoda2798: Tier 4. Iron Jugulis is an option on rain but really not worth using outside of that over other Tailwind setters like Roaring Moon. Even on rain it’s very optional, the majority of rain teams go without it these days.

Nido-Rus: Tier 4. Still has value as a tailwind setter on rain, but there are better options outside rain. Jugulis forced to choose between weak air slash or inaccurate hurricane really isn’t great for it. Booster bundle, bulky chi-yu, less gholdengo, less amoonguss, more iron hands are all bad usage shifts for jugulis.

SMB: Tier 5, I still think this is hard to justify outside of rain and I’d rather use mence even then

JRL: T4. In rain is when it reaches its greatest potential, but outside of it it can no longer hit hurricane with 100% accuracy. It has good support moves like taunt and snarl, but there are pokemon that do that better than it does.

Madaraaaa: Tier 4. Can be used only in rain, but in rain is good. Fast tailwind with booster energy, good stabs, also has taunt. Decent pokemon.

Yobuddy: Tier 4. It’s a rain mon and rain, while still fine, isn’t that hot right now. Aside from being able to Taunt Trick Room setters it loses to most opposing speed control options, Iron Bundle is faster and threatens it and Roaring Moon/Murkrow can Tailwind first for their allies.


:Glimmora: T2 -> T3
Actuarily: T2. Still a great mon, hazards are still viable, and I think people are realizing that you don’t have to just use it as a suicide lead. Definitely has meh defensive typing though.

Yoda2798: Tier 2. This has consistently been one of the most used Pokemon in Seasonals, it’s THE hazards mon. So many teams appreciate a one-stop hazards setter and remover, while it requires minimal support to be effective. Like yes, it fits on bulkier teams with Ting-Lu, but offensive teams also greatly appreciate Stealth Rock (and Toxic Spikes) to push targets in range of KOs, and removal to maintain Focus Sashes. It also has some offensive presence too: Power Gem hits Chi-Yu and can threaten Iron Bundle with Focus Sash, and Earth Power can be used for Gholdengo and opposing Glimmora. One of the best and most splashable Pokemon in the format, outside of Tier 1s, nearly always does something.

Nido-Rus: Tier 2, though just about the border between tier 2 and 3 right now. Works best on more offensive teams, though lately it’s been more easy to manage with a lot of teams becoming more offensive or iron hands setup-focused, leading to quite a bit less switching and thus less use out of hazards.

SMB: Tier 3, on paper it looks better than what it really is, too many weaknesses to do all what it wants to do (sr, poisoning, attacking, setting tspikes (which doesn’t really depends on it))

JRL: T2. It conditions the build, it is the king of hazards + t spikes to physical contact. He has a great special attack with a wide moveset. He does his job very well.

Madaraaaa: T2. Fantastic in lead, can poison opponents, put hazards or do damages with rock, ground, poison coverage. With the focus sash is able to do different things that prepare the terrain for the team to win.

Yobuddy: Tier 2. The premier hazard setter (and remover) of the tier and is still able to threaten some important KOs/damage offensively (namely Iron Bundle and Chi-Yu). Mortal Spin is also great at spreading poison to bulky opponents, like Iron Hands and Ting-Lu, while also removing Ting-Lu’s hazards.


:Amoonguss: T1 -> T2
Actuarily: T2. The meta has gotten a lot more offensive, and Amoonguss is struggling to find the turns to be able to switch in and spore/redirect like it used to. Tera grass is one of the most popular types, allowing Amoonguss to be completely ignored. It just isn’t the same defensive piece it was at the start of the meta.

Yoda2798: Tier 2. Since the actual meta formed people have been more prepared for Amoonguss. Many of the top Pokemon threaten Amoonguss with super effective damage, even before the recent rise in sun with Walking Wake, while Gholdengo and Garganacl provide natural non-Grass immunities. Tera Grass is a flexible option to deal with Amoonguss (among other things) that many teams will have, and you can fit a Safety Goggles if really needed to stop it (e.g. on Trick Room setters like Farigiraf). Amoonguss’ low Speed means it rarely gets to Spore in the first place when threatened by so much, and the Trick Room route isn’t an easy solution when Rage Powder isn’t stopping Chi-Yu doing its thing. It’s also not as simple as being an Iron Hands check, Assault Vest can carry Ice Punch which does a good chunk, while Swords Dance should have a way to handle it like Fire Punch, Tera Grass, Safety Goggles, or Indeedee. With all that said, Amoonguss is still a good Pokemon, offering redirection support and the ability to Spore in certain positions, or more broadly at the cost of using Tera. Leaf Storm does actual damage offensively and Pollen Puff helps it further aid set-up too.

Nido-Rus: Tier 2. I’ve been talking about this for a while, but the ability to tera has made preparing for amoonguss a whole lot easier than it used to be. There’s a lot more freedom in being able to assign amoonguss checks, especially with grass just naturally being a good type to tera into. Beyond that, amoonguss really doesn’t like recent meta changes. More indeedee psyspam, more chi yu, more sun, more sd fire punch or sd tera grass hands. Still fine but certainly not a dominating threat like it was before. Personally I’d vote this down to 3 but that may be too excessive and reactionary for now.

SMB: Tier 2, it wastes more turns than usual due to tera and it very often can leave it in a really bad position, not only because of this but it’s a do nothing pokemon in more games than what a tier 1 should be.

JRL: T2. The meta has adapted very well to him, safety goggles + tera grass make amoongus's job difficult. I think it's still doing its job well, but I'm okay with a drop.

Madaraaaa: T2. Gholdengo and goggles make among too passive sometimes. But in general is really strong, conditions opponent to target it or not, often tera amoongus really saves and changes games. Spore, redirection, cl smog, pollen puff… tier 2 for sure.

Yobuddy: Tier 2. The meta has settled enough and people mostly respect Amoonguss as a threat that they prepare adequately for it. So many of the top offensive mons have STAB super effective moves for it (Chi-Yu, Iron Bundle, Chien-Pao) and force Amoonguss to Tera if it wants to sponge hits/redirect damage. It still has a number of desirable traits, is good into Iron Hands and forces other mons to sacrifice their item slot to deal with it, so it’s still in a fine spot.

:Garchomp: T3 -> T4
Actuarily: T4. Great tusk is the better version, as Garchomp doesn’t get access to Headlong Rush. Chomp really wants to be used to just spam EQ, and it hasn’t seen much success doing that, as it’s hard to find partners for it.

Yoda2798: Tier 4. Great Tusk is just a better Ground-type than Garchomp the vast majority of the time, having access to much better STABs at the cost of being worse into Chi-Yu. Earthquake is difficult to safely use in this meta and Garchomp lacks a strong single-target attack to use instead, meanwhile Tusk gets Headlong Rush (and Close Combat) to freely click without worrying about its partner, while still having the option to use Earthquake if desired. Garchomp also suffers from a 4x weakness to Ice, meaning it’s easily KOed by Iron Bundle and Chien-Pao, while Great Tusk can live a hit from full from either and retaliate (assuming Assault Vest with some bulk investment to live Hydro Pump). Iron Bundle Icy Wind can even straight up OHKO Garchomp with Beads of Ruin active, which is hilarious.

Nido-Rus: Tier 4. Bundle existing has been very rough for garchomp, forces it to switch or burn tera. Meanwhile, Great tusk has been getting a lot more focus by just having better stabs and working well in this sun-heavy meta.

SMB: Tier 4, sd eq is a top threat to most teams but it needs almost your full team to support it (speed control, sand, probably redirection, ground immunities…)

JRL: T4. He can't spam earthquake like he wants, as it can damage the teammate and needs too much support to do its job. tusk has better moves and makes good use of the sun, which gives it more competitive advantages than garchomp.

Madaraaaa: Tier 4. In sand could be really devastating but needs the correct support to avoid ice moves. Great tusk right now is the premiere ground type.

Yobuddy: Tier 4. It’s still pretty solid but Great Tusk has been established as a better Ground type. The lack of Ground resists/immunities in the tier can be a blessing and a curse as it doesn’t have much to click Earthquake next to and doesn’t get a strong single target Ground move. The addition of Walking Wake also takes a bit of a shine off its speed tier.


:Tauros-Paldea-Aqua: UR-> T4
Actuarily: T4. More viable than the Fire version as the other water intim mon, Gyarados, isn’t nearly as good as Arcanine. The AV set is pretty good at dealing with a lot of the offensive threats in the tier, but it obviously hates Amoonguss/Iron Hands.

Yoda2798: Tier 4. Viable Intimidate alternative to Arcanine, doesn’t get Will-O-Wisp but being a Water-type offers different resistances, notably resisting Palafin’s Water-type STAB and being only neutral to Ground-type attacks from Great Tusk or Ting-Lu. Assault Vest is very much the way to go on this one, and helps patch up its Special Defense.

Nido-Rus: Tier 4. Solid intimidate option with good stabs. Arcanine/tauros fire/tauros water are all relatively interchangeable and the choice pretty much depends on what a team needs in terms of typing.

SMB: Tier 5, it’s a worse pokemon than its fire brother but ig the typing can justify its presence in the vr

JRL: T5. Full counter of chi yu and chein pao, intimidates and breaks screens, it can be useful in some teams, but I think it is worse than its fire brother.

Madaraaaa: Tier 5. Fire tauros is better. You want other pokemons to occupy the water slot in a team.

Yobuddy: Tier 5. It has some decent matchups and screen breaking is kinda nice but the low special bulk is really noticeable.


1679324549122.png

Changes:
:Abomasnow: UR -> T4.
:Tauros-Paldea-Blaze: UR -> T5.
:Chien-Pao: T1 -> T2.
:Kingambit: T4 -> T3.
:Hariyama: UR -> T5.
:Iron Hands: T2 -> T1.
:Dragapult: T3 -> T4.
:Wo-Chien: T3 -> T4.
:Iron Bundle: T2 -> T1.
:Roaring Moon: T4 -> T3.
:Walking Wake: UR -> T3.
:Gholdengo: T1 -> T2.
:Amoonguss: T1 -> T2.
:Garchomp: T3 -> T4.
:Tauros-Paldea-Aqua: UR -> T5.
:Brute Bonnet: T4 -> T5.
:Grimmsnarl: T4 -> T5.
:Pawmot: T4 -> T5.
:Azumarill: T5 -> UR.
:Ceruledge: T5 -> UR.
:Jumpluff: T5 -> UR.
:Oranguru: T5 -> UR.
:Rotom-Heat: T5 -> UR.
:Scream Tail: T5 -> T4
 

GenOne

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Palafin -> 3

I somewhat disagree that Palafin is directly comparable to, let alone outclassed by Iron Bundle and Walking Wake. I do think the Choice Band all-out attacker set has fallen a bit out of style especially with rain feeling a bit worse rn but stuff like SMB's bulk up drain punch set on his sample team is still excellent. Palafin is still a huge stat stick with a great priority move that is still great into top tier threats like chi-yu, and the Choice Band set while imo inferior still works on the right team.

But I don't think Palafin is splashable enough to be tier 2 given its Zero to Hero mechanic requires a bit of teambuilder planning around and the risk:reward ratio isn't as favourable in this meta. 3 seems right to me, rest of tier 4 looks considerably worse than Palafin is.
 
Writing my own tier list for DOU (might include reasons if asked):

Tier 1:
Glimmora
Iron Hands
Chi yu

Tier 2:
Chien pao
Iron Bundle
Dragonite
Gholdengo
Walking Wake
Great Tusk
Torkoal
Tinkaton

Tier 3:
Lycanroc
Amoonguss
Farigiraf
Roaring Moon
Kingambit
Murkrow
Houndstone
Ting Lu
Hippowdown
Palafin
Sylveon

Tier 4:
Volcarona
Garganacl
Tyranitar
Abomasnow
Indeedee-F
Maushold
Meowscarada
Pelipper
Arcanine
Dragapult
Tsareena
Armarouge
Grimmsnarl
Gardevoir

Tier 5:
Everything else ig?
 

Yoda2798

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Post-DPL noms, under each nom is the SV DOU usage in regular season.

:roaring moon: Roaring Mid 3 -> 2
| 4 | Roaring Moon | 55 | 32.74% | 52.73% |

Turns out Tailwind Is Good Actually, who would have thought? I suspected this would be Roaring Moon's trajectory during the last vote, but it would have been too soon for Tier 2 back then. Since then we've seen Roaring Moon firmly establish itself as the premier Tailwind setter, not just on sun but in general. What Moon does beyond Tailwind is still a little disappointing, but with options from Breaking Swipe to Acrobatics to Taunt you can get something worthwhile out of it, and Tailwind itself is still really valuable with all the strong offensive threats going around.

:indeedee-f: Indeedee-F 3 -> 2
| 5 | Indeedee-F | 54 | 32.14% | 53.70% |

Indeedee-F is well-known for its ability to support with Psychic Terrain and Trick Room, mainly with fullroom or Armarouge semiroom builds, but this DPL has shown the scope it can work within is beyond just those. Indeedee can work as a standalone Trick Room setter, offering it in combination with its other notable attribute in Follow Me, which is an obviously good move, and works especially well supporting Swords Dance Iron Hands, but also fits on goodstuffs teams without it. Some example teams. I suspect this trend is one that has went under the radar for most people, but Indeedee is splashable enough at this point for Tier 2, rivalling Amoonguss for general redirection purposes along with its existing duties.

:ting-lu: Ting-Lu 2 -> 3
| 22 | Ting-Lu | 12 | 7.14% | 41.67% |

Ting-Lu can be a defining piece on the right teams, but its Iron Hands matchup hurts a lot as a Ground-type, it's somewhat Tera hungry, and it requires the right teammates around it to function most effectively. Especially when compared to Great Tusk, a much better Ground-type and more easily fitted on teams, Ting-Lu has been a step below the level of Tier 2 for a while at this point.

:scream tail: Scream Tail 4 -> 3
| 16 | Scream Tail | 23 | 13.69% | 56.52% |

This DPL has really sold me on Scream Tail's utility. Fast Thunder Wave is a unique and valuable form of speed control, and it can even use Trick Room on the opposite end of the spectrum. Stealth Rock is a good move and hits a lot of stuff in this meta, and Scream is one of the best setters, with Glimmora being the main competition but fitting a different profile. Fast Encore and Disable provide disruption, Fake Tears and Howl boost the damage output of special and physical partners respectively. Screens has also seen some use, though I do think Grimmsnarl is largely better for that. Offensive ability is where Scream Tail struggles, but Play Rough can OHKO Roaring Moon and do decent damage to super effective targets, while Psychic Fangs doubles as screen removal. Howl can make either attack reach normal levels of damage for an attack, though Scream will usually have enough utility to provide that it won't end up too passive in practice anyways. Scream Tail is a very versatile support option that can do a lot of different things that a lot of different teams want.

:sylveon: Sylveon 4 -> 3
| 17 | Sylveon | 22 | 13.10% | 50.00% |

"There's no good Fairy-types in SV without Flutter Mane!!!" people complain, and well they're kind of right, but Sylveon does kind of exist. Fanroom used to be the main team with Sylveon, though this DPL we've also seen Mizuhime's sandroom team and a number of teams opting for Sylveon without Trick Room entirely. The best Fire-type in the tier, Chi-Yu, is only neutral to Fairy, and many of the top Pokemon including Iron Hands are weak to it, making Pixilate Hyper Voice menacing offensively. Sylveon's weak points are its physical frailty and low Speed, which are covered by Trick Room on two of the aforementioned teams, but other teams can still sufficiently cover it with the likes of redirection and Intimidate support, which are especially useful since Sylveon typically opts to carry Calm Mind as well. Sylveon can't fit on every team, but with the right support can shine well making it a fit for Tier 3.

:grimmsnarl: Grimmsnarl 5 -> 3
| 18 | Grimmsnarl | 16 | 9.52% | 50.00% |

Swords Dance Iron Hands is really good, and Prankster screens are nice for supporting that, which Grimmsnarl provides, similar to how it did for Annihilape. Other Pokemon appreciate screens as well, such as also facilitating setup opportunities for Calm Mind Sylveon, or helping more offensive Pokemon trade better, but pairing Grimmsnarl with Iron Hands is really the big reason to use it, but a very solid reason at that. Grimmsnarl is far from necessary with Iron Hands, but screens support is quite a valuable option for it and teammates, carving just enough of a niche to make it into Tier 3 again, in my opinion.

:garganacl: Garganacl 3 -> 4
| 33 | Garganacl | 5 | 2.98% | 40.00% |

Garga-who? Garganacl has been pretty bad for a while; it's a momentum suck in a meta of super strong attackers, and quite reliant on Tera due to its plethera of weaknesses. Even with Tera Garganacl is still not great, Iron Defense sets are a poor win condition, and utility sets are also too slow and ran over by the better Pokemon in the tier.

:murkrow: Murkrow 3 -> 4
| 31 | Murkrow | 6 | 3.57% | 16.67% |

Despite the fact that neergarenteed tailwind is so annoying plus it doesn't insta die to make it rain WTF, Murkrow's 15 minutes of fame are over, Roaring Moon has taken the Tailwind crown. Booster Speed is close enough to Prankster, and Roaring Moon usually does more on top of setting Tailwind, as well as having REAL??? stats, which relegates Murkrow to a more niche Tailwind option for if you want something specific like Haze or Rain Dance. Even Taunt is still covered by Roaring Moon, and quite arguably better on it since it isn't stopped by priority blockers like it is with Prankster.
 

Xrn

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echoing all prior noms from Yoda i think, + Palafin to 3

:meowscarada: Meowscarada T4 -> T5/UR
Dfficult mon to justify in a post dozo ape metagame as seen by zero usage in DPL. It has the same nice tools as before but they're simply less effective and competes for a slot with several other insanely good dark types

:farigiraf: Farigiraf T3 -> T4
| 23 | Farigiraf | 11 | 6.55% | 18.18% |
dire winrate. The ability is kind of cool but shares a typing with Indeedee which provides so much more support than the giraffe does. It's edge over Indeedee is offensive presence but 110 isn't excellent and it gets owned by so many common mons. I suppose the other edge is the priority immunity not being tied to terrain but I don't think needing to have this mon in is much better :worrycargo:

:pelipper: Pelipper T3 -> T4
| 28 | Pelipper | 7 | 4.17% | 28.57% |
As Palafin falls down so does this guy. Palafin still has over double the uses and double the winrate, pointing towards structures like Palance or Palafin + Chien-Pao being preferable to rain if you wanna use the dolphin. Rain doesn't enjoy Bundle being Thanos, Screens Hands, the rise of other weathers, TR with priority denial, or really anything else in the metagame.

:hatterene: Hatterene T5 -> T4
| 21 | Hatterene | 13 | 7.74% | 53.85% |
Had a great comeback this DPL with uses on full room and semi room. Being neutral to dark is a great attribute it has over other psychics rn given all the brokens running around. Magic Bounce is also really useful in general, but especially when TR often has multiple rock weaks. Definitely better than T5, don't think I'd call it a T3 yet.

there's probably more stuff in the low tiers worth shuffling around but im tired
 
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Arcticblast

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:tauros-paldea-aqua: Tauros-Aqua --> 4
A re-nomination. Tauros is still very good; beating both Chi-Yu and Chien-Pao 1v1 is impressive, and with more emphasis on Great Tusk, Roaring Moon, and Iron Hands, Intimidate is perhaps the best it's been all generation. Fire Tauros is probably 4 too, I just haven't used it as much. It's a rare pick, but it did go slightly positive in DPL, so there's definitely something here.

:zoroark-hisui: Zoroark-H --> 5
Zoroark is frail, has a very bad weakness, and has poor STAB coverage. That said, if you guess Illusion wrong, it can swing games in its favor, and Normal/Fighting/Ghost is an insane set of resists. 110 is a totally reasonable speed tier, and Specs Hyper Voice does respectable damage. It's also a special attacking Normal, so Tera Blast is pretty free!
I don't expect this one to go through but Zork is super fun so I'm nominating it anyway

I agree with all of the noms Yoda and Xrn made too, except maybe the Murkrow drop; I think Prankster Tailwind is still strong enough to keep it in tier 3, since the teams it powers up are all incredibly threatening.
 

PikaSpark

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:gyarados: ---> T4

I've only started using this thing recently thanks to the orthworm team built by tyo, and i ask myself why i havent been using this thing sooner, its a really key piece to some team comps. Intimidate is absolutely amazing, which i dont think needs any more clarification. Gyarados is really good at patching up holes in balance teams that struggle vs Great Tusk and also is looking for some way to make the team less Spore-vulnerable. Thunder wave in my opinion is super broken because you're getting full para'd waayy more than you think. Taunt is always going to be good utility. It can do a lot in the right team comps and that practically fits with the T4 description so i'll be nomming it up there. Who knows, i could even try to argue it to T3 but I guess that could be a bit too greedy ._.

:arcanine: --> T2

this is a nom that didnt go through last time, but im gonna try again :)

After laddering DLT with the glimmora chien pao HO sample for days, I would say that AV is my favorite set (and perhaps the best one, based on performance) because it can do so many things in a single game with Flare Blitz + CC + Espeed + Intimidate + the special bulk from AV. 120 base power fire stab coming from 110 base atk is nothing to scoff at on offensive sets, Intimidate is in high demand, and wisp is pretty cool! items can range from CB to boots (for fat teams that can heal arcanine up)

Arcanine is a central piece to many balance teams, and it certainly performs well in them. This would be enough to make it T3, and if that was enough it would stay in T3. But when you add how it can run multiple sets viably and flexibly into the equation, that's what makes it T2, at least for me.

Other noms i support but wont talk about much because the others stated it really well:
:Tauros-Paldea-Aqua: --> T4
basically i think its just that its good at what it does compared to the other T5s

:Grimmsnarl: --> T4
sd hands/other set up mons like bulk up palafin enjoy screens support alot, tbh i was really surprised to find this at t5. I think what would stop me from saying T3 is the presence of screenbreakers, which I personally use alot in my teams.

:sylveon:--> T3
fairy coverage is pretty good :)

:meowscarada:--> T5
CB gets shredded like cheddar cheese(my favorite kind of cheese) and becomes less worth it, sash has very little power

:indeedee-f: --> T2
indeedee is really good option for semi-room(obviously full room too), follow me is just so good especially with hands to SD next to it, and im sure many of you have seen those torkoal indeedee walking wake semi-room teams pop up


I'm sure once i wake up tommorow i'll be noticing some embarrasing points in my post but oh well have a great day people ._.
 

eragon

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I think lots of people previously have made some nice noms, so I'm just gonna make a couple quick fringe nominations out of principle just because I think they have a small niche that should be recognized. I have replays for them that I'll include for posterity's sake despite replays being down right now.
:Gallade: UR --> T5
Any Pokemon that has the capacity to threaten hands is valuable, and Gallade has the ability to KO Hands with sharpness psycho cut pretty easily. It's not always the easiest to position, but if speed control is on its side it is a very potent offensive threat with the valuable fighting typing. It can also run TR to help with either setting on semiroom builds or with just reversing trick room (I think its also one of the best imprison mons in the format, although I don't really think imprison is that great of a move). In addition, there's multiple sets that have potential, with scarf and band (to always ohko hands) having niche viability, as well as IMO more useful bulkier sets that can utilize both its offensive potential and ability to set TR. I'm not saying its top tier or anything, but it's better than several of the current t5 (and even a few of the t4) mons in my opinion. People have been talking about Iron Valiant a bit recently, and I think Gallade is honestly right about the same in terms of viability, I would bring it a lot more if I didn't hate repeating ideas.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9doublesou-679760

:Altaria: UR --> T5
This is pretty out there and I don't expect this to succeed in the slightest, but Cloud Nine is actually pretty nice right now into Protospam and Rain teams. Altaria is also the bulkiest Pokemon with both Tailwind and Will-o-Wisp, allowing it to be very useful in specific matchups against a few of the common physical attackers, and even more if it is able to tera. The damage output is pretty bad, but the support is pretty nice and when I was testing it out it very rarely felt like deadweight. Someone suggested to me that bulky Roaring Moon was better, but I messed around with that too and its much much worse, don't run max hp Roaring Moon lol.
(Replays being down means I can't link a couple of the replays I have to support this at present, I'll edit them in as soon as they're back up)

:Gholdengo: T2 --> T1
Gholdengo is obviously already ranked pretty high up, but after using it a fair bit in the testing of various teams I honestly think it's one of the very best mons in the format, there's a ridiculous variety of viable sets it can run, and I think there's even more room for innovation with this Pokemon that's been a little bit overshadowed. It's also not too bad into hands, being immune to drain punch is nice. There's more to say here but I'll elaborate later if I get time.
 

Actuarily

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Votes
:Palafin: T2 -> T4
Actuarily: T3. Has definitely dropped off as Iron Bundle has become the premier water type, but it can still be really punishing to teams that aren’t adequately prepared for it.

Yoda2798: Tier 3. Iron Bundle is by far the best Water-type, so most teams would rather use it than Palafin, and Freeze Dry means Palafin doesn’t like facing Bundle either. Rain isn’t the best at the moment, and Walking Wake also exists which pushes it down as well. Tier 4 is too far though, Palafin can still work well on the right teams.

Nido-Rus: Tier 3. Rain sucks, but pala on its own is still a reasonably decent mon but worse off. Doesn’t like basically any of the meta changes. Breaking swipe roaring moon, more iron hands, more bundle, more psychic terrain from indeedee, a lot more sun and walking wake, etc.

SMB: Tier 3 is fine, rain is not so popular, bulk up is still pretty good but faces competition with iron hands for a bulky set up physical attacker that it’s also easier to play and more threatening.

JRL: T3. The development of the meta means that palafin cannot stand out like it did in the beginning, Wake and Bundle currently have greater utility. Also rain is a style that has no potential in SV and is where palafin stands out the most. Another point to highlight is the tera grass that is used to stop the amoongus spores, which harms palafin. His bulk up + drain punch set can be interesting currently but always on the condition that he has left the field to have his Hero form.

Madaraaaa: T3. Bad moment for rain. Out of rain palafin is still good with bulk up or av set but needs to change to hero and the opponent is free to attack its slot. Palafin is not he best water pokemon and suffers a lot iron hands, the king of SV dou.

Yobuddy: Tier 3. While it does face competition from Iron Bundle and Walking Wake as an offensive water it is really the only thing that can fill the traditional bulky water role in the tier. I used AV in DPL and it was quite solid. Being forced to switch in order to activate Zero to Hero will always hold it back and make it harder to fit on a team but it definitely isn’t tier 4 to me.


:Roaring Moon: T3 -> T2
Actuarily: T2. The best tailwind setter as it’s able to combine setting tailwind + offensive pressure with some good coverage moves. It definitely has flaws with how bad it is into a lot of the best mons, but as the meta is desperately in need of tailwind setters this one is the best.

Yoda2798: Tier 2. My nom, Tailwind is really good and Roaring Moon is by far the best user of it. As everybody knows, Moon is not amazing beyond that, but it’s an important source of Speed and has enough stats and utility on top to be worthwhile. Breaking Swipe in particular acts as a pseudo-Intimidate against the tier’s many physical attackers.

Nido-Rus: Tier 2. Premier tailwind setter with solid disruption between taunt and breaking swipe, and reasonable if somewhat iffy offensive pressure. Still accomplishes enough to be a solid threatening mon.

SMB: Tier 3, it has too many flaws, mainly because of its typing, unless you use tera on it which generally i’d say it’s not worth. Still pretty good tailwind setter and can run other sets like dd which can steal some games.

JRL: T2. It is the best tailwind setter currently with energy boost. It has good support attacks like taunt, breaking swipe, snarl or brick break. He also has good offensive stats which makes for an offensive use of sun or a dragon dance set.

Madaraaaa: T3. Indeed the best tailwind setter, with booster energy as item allows the team to have big momentum. Has fantastic support moves and stats, but the typing is not great and iron hands and iron bundle are everywhere.

Yobuddy: Tier 2. 4th in usage in DPL isn’t something I can ignore. I still think Roaring Moon is pretty underwhelming as a pokemon and has a bad Iron Hands matchup but it is clearly the best Tailwind bot available.


:Indeedee-f: T3 -> T2
Actuarily: T2. Psyspam is pretty solid, and Indeedee-f can be run outside of that as just a priority stopper + FM bot that enables Psychic Seed Iron Hands.

Yoda2798: Tier 2. My nom, solo Indeedee is strong as a redirector + Trick Room setter in one, especially with Swords Dance Iron Hands, but other Pokemon like Sylveon also appreciate it. The big thing about Indeedee is that it’s a Trick Room setter, but it doesn’t suck if it can’t set since Follow Me still provides so much value outside of TR. As YoBuddy mentioned, it also hits opposing Iron Hands with Psychic which is nice.

Nido-Rus: Tier 2. Trick room has been amazing for it, combines too many good qualities into one mon even if the stat total and typing aren’t the best. Very good synergy with SD iron hands between TR and follow me, provides terrain for armarogue, psychic terrain is just really good, etc.

SMB: Tier 2, tbh indeedee is a pretty bad pokemon but psychic terrain enables and disrupts many strategies and without other viable terrain setters that’s hard to stop.

JRL: T2. It is pure utility, its field avoids priorities, it combines very well with armarouge expanding force, iron hands seed, it has trick room and follow me which makes it a great support.

Madaraaaa: Tier 2. Can only support, but is a top supporter. Fits with seed iron hands and armarouge. Thanks to tera (fairy manly) and trickroom and follow me can offer many options to the team in some crucial turns.

Yobuddy: Tier 2. It has the coveted traits of being good into Iron Hands and also being good at supporting Iron Hands and it is one of the better mons at both roles right now.


:Ting-Lu: T2 -> T3
Actuarily: T3. Ting-Lu struggles to hold balance together like it used to, and it’s low usage in DPL reflects how far it’s fallen. It’s been seeing some more use recently as a CB EQ mon as well as with the AV set, but as of right now T3 is the right fit.

Yoda2798: Tier 3. My nom, for a Pokemon that's main strength is its bulk it’s weak to too many things, and is a bit lacking Speed-wise and offensively (without Choice Band) as well. Great Tusk is a much easier fit onto teams, and a far better Ground-type into Iron Hands. Ting-Lu requires the right teammates to be effective, and is pretty Tera hungry, with it even having relatively low DPL usage as far as Tier 3s go.

Nido-Rus: Tier 3. A month or two ago would be an easy tier 3, but by now it’s gotten interesting more offensive sets that abuse the ground-weak meta. Still not easy to build around and the non-offensive sets are low tier 3 right now.

SMB: tier 2 but idm seeing at 3, cb eq has just give it another dimension and with so many teams running 3-4 ground weaknesses it can be pretty annoying combined with its great bulk

JRL: T3. It has great bulk and a good ability that makes it useful on defensive and balanced teams. I think he has a lot of threats in the meta due to the large number of weaknesses he has due to his type, hands, bundle, wake or chien pao which prevents him from standing out more, needing a lot of support.

Madaraaaa: Tier 3. Amazing stats and ability, has hazards and whirliwind and can damage opponents without attacking. But too many times is passive on the field, is slow and is not so dangerous offensively to be a T2 pokemon.

Yobuddy: Tier 3. Vessel of Ruin is such a useful ability but Ting-Lu has so few other tools to achieve anything on the field. It’s super fat but that often means it’s just a health pack for the opposing Hands unless it teras.


:Scream Tail: T4 -> T3
Actuarily: T4. While it can do a lot, there isn’t really a set for this mon that is really good. It wishes it could run all of screens/thunder wave/encore/howl, but it can only pick a few of those. Too often this thing is playing 2v1.

Yoda2798: Tier 3. My nom, I’m not going to repeat myself since I wrote a lot there already, but it has a lot of good support options and a nice combination of bulk and Speed to reliably get them off. Very adaptable to different teams, and offers fairly unique utility compared to other support Pokemon. One thing I didn’t mention and I don’t think anybody else has is its typing is pretty good defensively in this meta, with Gholdengo being the main thing which hits it super effective, further helping its general longevity, and in particular makes it the best Trick Room setter without a Dark-type (Chi-Yu) weakness.

Nido-Rus: Tier 3, agree with Yoda nom. Has a very wide movepool but you can tailor any specific set to fit the needs of a given team very well. Very unique combination of being a fast bulky utility mon that can also just run trick room and get by with sheer bulk. Great support movepool offering pretty much everything you could want between howl, encore, twave, disable, psychic fangs, screens, rocks, etc. Held back a bit by its minimal offensive pressure, but support movepool makes up for it. Dynamic speed fast twave is strong, as is running encore or disable on a fast bulky non-prankster mon.

SMB: tier 4 I still get that vibe of a mon that wants to do a lot of things and doesn’t really do anything, with its excellent support movepool ig if you want to do something really specific it can do it but that doesn’t mean the team will improve with its presence.

JRL: T3. It's a great support, breaks screens, puts screens in, boosts allies with howl, t wave fast, rocks, encore, disable, trick room. It also has great bulk that makes it stand up on the field and do its job. In addition, with its boost energy + speed set, it is faster than most of the meta, annoying offensive teams a lot.

Madaraaaa: T3. Good supporter, fast, bulky and with annoying moves that can be a problem for the opponent. Offensively is nothing and sometimes is too passive on the field, but is solid.

Yobuddy: Tier 3. It does a heap of things decently well and is a bulky pokemon that isn’t an Iron Hands health pack. Encore/Disable sets help shutdown bulky threats like Iron Hands. Howl sets help boost strong physical threats like Iron Hands. Psychic Fangs stops screens teams, like the ones that use Iron Hands. It can even run screens itself, to support allied Iron Hands. It can even Baton Pass stat boosts to bulky boosting threats, like I did in DPL with Gholdengo. You also can never be 100% sure you know what a Scream Tail is running until it is revealed. However it is very passive and if its 4 chosen moves aren’t ideal for the current situation it can just sit there doing nothing sometimes.


:Sylveon: T4 -> T3
Actuarily: T3. Once Sylveon is in a good position, it can take over games due to how many fairy weaknesses there are. There’s very few reliable switchins (Amoong/Gholdengo/Glimmet/Arcanine/Armarouge are about it), and even those still get chunked by either specs or +1 hyper voices. The trick is getting Sylveon into these positions with either proper speee control or behind a substitute.

Yoda2798: Tier 3. My nom, Fairy-type is incredible offensively in this meta, and that’s exactly what Sylveon does. Its meh Speed and physical bulk need to be covered from support like Trick Room/redirection/Intimidate, but provide that support (which isn’t too difficult) and Sylveon provides so much in return. Iron Bundle just dying from full to a Choice Specs Hyper Voice is a pretty funny calc.

Nido-Rus: Tier 3. I want to say this is a bad mon and it kind of is but fairy is just way too good of an offensive type right now as well as a solid defensive type without much stuff hitting it SE, so this thing gets easy opportunities to spam strong hyper voices.

SMB: tier 3, spamming specs hyper voice is really strong atm, any other set is 5 or below

JRL: T3. It's the only decent offensive fairy type in the meta, spamming hyper voice destroys a lot of teams, as there aren't that many pokes that resist just arcanine and gholdengo. It has great special bulk and can be used on trick room teams. It is also viable with your CM + screens set, but the most common is the specs.

Madaraaaa: T3. Has one of the best spread moves with few resistances, and is enough bulky (and has tera) to use hyper voice at least one time with good team support.

Yobuddy: Tier 3. This meta is calling out for good fairies and while Sylveon isn’t that great it is the only one available. Being good into Hands and Dark types and not sucking completely is good enough for tier 3.


:Grimmsnarl: T5 -> T3
Actuarily: T4. Similar to scream tail, this mon can often be playing 2v1, but it does get prankster for its screen setting/T waving, and has decent offensive typing in this metagame. As others have said, the more popular it becomes, the worse it becomes as many teams are prepared for screens.

Yoda2798: Tier 4. My nom, I was swithering on this when I made it, but as Actuarily said Grimmsnarl suffers from its own success since people start packing screenbreakers, which is happening enough now to place it clearly on the side of Tier 4. Still, screens are a good option, especially with Iron Hands but other stuff also appreciates them, with Grimmsnarl also being one of the few Fake Out users, and Spirit Break being a pretty good attack and utility in one.

Nido-Rus: Tier 4. Went to tier 5 when there was nothing in particular to support with screens. Back in tier 4 now that screens iron hands is a thing. Viability depends on how good bulky setup is, and right now its pretty solid. Very easy to deal with if someone runs screen breakers but that’s relatively uncommon right now.

SMB: Tier 5, as simple as playing 5v6 is not worth. If your opponent has some screens counterplay, which honestly is not that hard to fit, apart from playing 5v6 you’d have wasted at least 2 turns. Abomasnow is a way superior screens setter as well.

JRL: T4. He does his job well, setting up screens and giving support to allies so that they can boost and wipe out the opposing team more easily. I think the meta has adapted well to this style of teams with attacks that can break screens, putting much more pressure and making this pokemon's job useless.

Madaraaaa: T5. Psy surge is popular and grimmsnarl has not the qualities to justify the presence in a team, is too weak.

Yobuddy: Tier 4. Iron Hands running the meta gives it a great partner to benefit from its screens. However it is still largely just a screens bot and every team needs to pack as much Iron Hands counterplay as possible, which includes measures against screens.


:Garganacl: T3 -> T4
Actuarily: T3. I think Garganacl still has a ton of merit, as it can be very tricky to take down with its defensive Tera types. Tera-Ghost is pretty free in matchups where it’s not playing against Chi-Yu, and if it gets an ID boost in these matchups it can just win outright. Salt cure is great for stalling out other defensive Pokémon, and it’s one of the few viable Pokémon to get access to wide guard.

Yoda2798: Tier 4. My nom, Garganacl is soooooooo passive and has so many weaknesses it just gets run over by the good Pokemon in the tier. Without Tera it’s pretty much a waste of a slot, and even with Tera Garganacl is still not that great either. The abysmal usage in DPL reflects well just how bad this is.

Nido-Rus: Tier 4. Just too passive right now and the team comps it works on aren’t doing too well, and often perform better with garg removed. A little too reliant on tera while tera is a particularly valuable resource on the bulky teams you’d put this on.

SMB: Tier 4, apart from not getting usage it’s way too passive and requires support and very often tera to work

JRL: T4. Dependent on tera to do a better job, as it suffers against the most used pokes in the meta like gholdengo, hands, tusk or bundle. It is forced to be played in defensive teams and with hazards if you want to get more potential out of it.

Madaraaaa: T3. Requires a lot of support surely, but can be a threat if not checked accurately. Drains opponens life and can steal games vs physical attackers.

Yobuddy: Tier 4. A slow defensive mon that is bad into Hands without tera is never going to have much success in this meta.


:Murkrow: T3 -> T4
Actuarily: T4. Roaring Moon has surpassed this as the best tailwind setter, Murkrows ineffectiveness after it sets tailwind just makes it difficult to use. It has to be paired with the perfect partner for both your opponents mons on the field, requiring you to always be in a good position using it.

Yoda2798: Tier 4. My nom, Roaring Moon is THE Tailwind setter now, Murkrow is a niche alternative. Roaring Moon is already super fast with Booster Energy, so Murkrow’s Prankster helps more so with matching Tailwind if the opponent already has it up, or with using one of the support moves you would pick it for like Haze or Rain Dance / Sunny Day. YoBuddy brought up another good reason to use Murkrow of it being a Ground immunity which is useful with Earthquake partners. Outside of those reasons though, Murkrow just has worse stats than Roaring Moon and you should just use that instead.

Nido-Rus: Tier 4. Roaring moon has pretty much taken its place by providing near-prankster level tailwind while also being bulky enough to last longer with a better defensive typing.

SMB: Tier 5 as always, Idt this has ever been better than that.

JRL: T4. Tailwind pranster is very good, but other than that he doesn't add much to the team. Haze, rain dance or sunny day are other support alternatives why you would want to use murkrow before roaring moon.

Madaraaaa: T5. Too frail, and now better tailwind setters shine.

Yobuddy: Tier 4. Roaring Moon but it dies easily. It still has some value next to Great Tusk/Garchomp to click Tailwind + Earthquake but it doesn’t have a whole lot of good utility outside of being a Tailwind bot, which Roaring Moon is more consistent as. Interestingly Sash Brave Bird sets do outdamage Moon but you have the downside of dying immediately.


:Farigiraf: T3 -> T4
Actuarily: T3. It’s a slightly bulkier and more offensive version of Indeedee-f, without the redirection. Still definitely has a place in t3, as it’s one of the 4 main TR setters.

Yoda2798: Tier 4. Farigiraf’s niche was a standalone Trick Room setter and priority blocker, but Indeedee has now taken that role. Farigiraf is pretty deadweight if it can’t set Trick Room, whereas Indeedee always provides consistent value because of Follow Me, and obviously pairs much better with Swords Dance Iron Hands in particular.

Nido-Rus: Tier 4, it’s kinda fine but indeedee does fari role better than it. Farigiraf was also never really a particularly good mon, just kind of a forced pick since there’s a ton of good mons that abuse trick room, while there’s a lack of bulky trick room setters that aren’t dead weight outside setting trick room.

SMB: Tier 3, it’s the best option to set tr in semiroom or fullroom teams apart from indeedee, which is funny is that they are pretty similar because of their typing and blocking priority. Anyway if your team relies more on setting tr farigiraf is the better option because of its bulk and being able to put more pressure.

JRL: T4. In my opinion if indeedee -f goes up in use, farigiraf goes down. He has a good priority avoidance ability and has more offensive presence than indeedee - f, but he's insufficient to pick him first in my opinion. There is a large presence of dark types in the meta and gholdengo makes it offensively of little relevance.

Madaraaaa: T3. Trickroom control, nasty plot, decent stats and super ability. Is good enough to be t3.

Yobuddy: Tier 4. There isn’t too much wrong with Farigiraf, people are just prioritising Indeedee-F over it and Hatterene has risen slightly too. It’s still solid but tier 4 is probably more accurate for it right now.


:Pelipper: T3 -> T4
Actuarily: T5. Rain is in a really bad place with how good sun & Iron Hands are now. Just really lacking good rain sweepers.

Yoda2798: Tier 5. At first I was thinking Tier 5 was a bit drastic but thinking more I agree, rain is super duper sad at the moment, as DPL showed other teammates work better with Palafin, using Pelipper for the boost is not worth it and it’s just omega Iron Bundle bait (which you really don’t want with Palafin especially). Pelipper also hates Iron Hands and is not that great in general, even Tailwind is not super useful because of how slow it is, it often dies before getting the chance to use it.

Nido-Rus: Tier 5. Rain is quite very dead even if palafin isn’t. Bundle makes this thing (and rain teams as a whole) suffer too much. This compounded with wake just abusing both sun and opposing rain makes rain really not a great comp right now. Maybe there’s some unexplored team comp that could fix it, but right now I don’t see it.

SMB: Tier 5, i just don’t think rain has the tools to success yet. Sun and sand are somewhat common too which doesn’t help either.

JRL: T4. Rain is an archetype that has many difficulties. Water spam is winless and there isn't a decent abuser beyond palafin with its priority. Peliper is useful for its tailwind and bulk but has to go down as rain usage is so low.

Madaraaaa: T5. Not a moment for rain, sun and also sand are better. Bundle and hands eat pelipper easily.

Yobuddy: Tier 5. Rain is in a pretty bad spot right now. Palafin is pretty much the only rain abuser and it really doesn’t need rain at all considering a +1 boost from Howl boosts it more than rain does. Pelipper itself isn’t a particularly remarkable pokemon outside being a Tailwind setter not weak to Fairy/Ice, which isn’t anywhere near enough to justify running.


:Arcanine: T3 -> T2
Actuarily: T2. It’s still just one of the best defensive mons in the tier, great into a lot of the top offensive threats. It even has good coverage options that give it a couple of good sets between AV, Snarl/Wisp, and even moves like Howl.

Yoda2798: Tier 2. Arcanine has always been a part of balance cores with Ting-Lu and Amoonguss, but what finally tips me over to a rise this time is how well it does with and against Iron Hands. Will-O-Wisp really slows down opposing Swords Dance Iron Hands, and with Intimidate covers your own Iron Hands’ defensively on its typically more vulnerable physical side, though Snarl can also cover the special side. Sylveon is another notable partner that has popped up, as it really appreciates Arcanine’s damage mitigation on the physical side, even more so than Iron Hands, and provides a lot of damage to make up for Arcanine’s relative passivity. I’m not so big on Assault Vest sets, but the above reasoning is enough to just push it into Tier 2 for me.

Nido-Rus: Tier 3. Solid option with wisp, intim, pivoting, and usable offensive moves, but there are team comps it can face where it just doesn’t do much and is a pretty significant liability. HO fast sun is an example- it can pivot to intim tusk or outspeed and wisp but in general doesn’t like tusk, hates wake, doesn’t like chi yu, can’t stop roaring moon from setting tailwind, etc. It has tools that can do something against these, but it’s just not enough. Also hates trick room psyspam, with either armarogue or hatterene. Also hates seeing kingambit since that very much limits switchin opportunities. It’s fine and usable, but not good enough for tier 2.

SMB: I move it from tier 4 to tier 3 on my personal vr, so keep it at 3. Being as passive as arcanine is not that punished atm but I still think 1 turn wrong with defensive arcanine can translate in a massive disadvantage and that’s not something that a tier 2 pokemon should do.

JRL: T2. It is very versatile as it fits into many styles of play. On balance teams with intimidation and wow + snarl he does a great job supporting the team, but also on priority offensive teams with chien pao he does a good job with his great attack and coverage moves + extreme speed. In short, it is a great pokemon and always does work in any team

Madaraaaa: T3. Versatile and a good supporter, but I think in this meta to have snarl and wow is not enough to stop an oppressive power thanks to chi yu, or opponents tera. So is kinda passive sometimes, and offensively is good but disappointing enough to avoid T2.

Yobuddy: Tier 2. Good against Iron Hands and can assist Iron Hands with Howl or just reducing the opponent’s damage. It has nice access to Snarl and a fire resistance that also help against some of the top special attackers in the format, aside from Iron Bundle.


:Gholdengo: T2 -> T1
Actuarily: T2. Definitely a mon that can run away with games with its nasty plot set, but it ultimately struggles into sun/all the dark Pokémon/chi-yu existing. It’s also limited because the attack it wants to spam lowers its spa, so sets like scarf/specs can’t just click Make it Rain as much as they’d like. I do like the defensive Tera types people have been using on this, I definitely think that’s an upgrade over just steel Tera.

Yoda2798: Tier 2. Gholdengo has some nice traits going for it like being the good Steel-type and a Fighting-type immunity, and leaning into Dazzling Gleam recently has helped it, but it’s still not Tier 1 material. Compared to other Pokemon in the tier, Gholdengo has somewhat middling Speed, and is also weak to a lot of stuff, though I do agree with Actuarily that defensive Tera helps. There being a decent amount of Make It Rain resists and the move dropping Special Attack hurts Gholdengo, especially when you compare it to the Tier 1 Chi-Yu which is a clear level above Gholdengo as a spread attacker. Gholdengo is a good Pokemon, and does have a few different viable sets, but doesn’t dominate in the way the Tier 1s do, especially without using Tera.

Nido-Rus: Tier 2. Solid consistent mon with a lot of sets, decent bulk, usable speed. But nothing about it is particularly overpoweringly strong or broken. It can clean house if you give it space to nasty plot, scarf can provide key advantages by outspeeding specific threats, and specs provides great immediate breaking power, but its typing isn’t hard to handle and it can be made bulky but not particularly so.

SMB: Tier 2, excellent pokemon with a nice variety of sets, one of the best offensive iron hands checks and one or the main reasons why sometimes they run fire punch, but just not at the level of the things that we have in tier 1, still one of the best pokemons in tier 2 though.

JRL: T2. Great type, with its ability it avoids status moves and with its nasty set it can sweep teams. It is also useful with other sets such as specs or trick scarf to trap boosted pokes. Although it has many good factors, I think it has difficulties and needs support to do its job well, there are a lot of dark types in the meta, arcanine and speed ties with another gholdengo is a bad thing and in many games it is a poke dependent on tera for doing work, that makes me think that tier 2 is his place.

Madaraaaa: Tier 2. One of the best pokemon of the meta. Scarf, specs, nasty plot sitrus berry are all reliable sets depending on the team. The combination of typing, ability, stats and fantastic movepool (Make it rain, shadow ball, dazzling gleam, power gem, trick…) put gholdengo at the top of tier2 without doubts.

Yobuddy: Tier 2. I was going to give this guy tier 1 but tier 1 is pretty much reserved for broken pokemon right now (although I think Iron Bundle is carried by Chi-Yu). That being said it is still a great pokemon. Choiced sets can Trick Iron Hands and being a Steel type that can deal with Iron Hands is extremely useful. Tera Fairy Dazzling Gleam is arguably the best Fairy type in the format. Nasty Plot sets can also captialise on teams that use Amoonguss to deal with setup options. Its matchup into Chi-Yu is pretty poor but it is at least one of the better partners to abuse Beads of Ruin, behind Bundle of course.


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Changes:
:Palafin: T2 -> T3
:Roaring Moon: T3 -> T2
:Indeedee-f: T3 -> T2
:Ting-Lu: T2 -> T3
:Scream Tail: T4 -> T3
:Sylveon: T4 -> T3
:Grimmsnarl: T5 ->T4
:Garganacl: T3 -> T4
:Murkrow: T3 -> T4
:Farigiraf: T3 -> T4
:Pelipper: T3 -> T5
:Arcanine: T3 -> T2
:Meowscarada: T4 -> T5
:Hydreigon: T4 -> T5
:Iron Jugulis: T4 -> T5
:Rotom-Wash: T4 -> T5
:Volcarona: T4 -> T5
:Hatterene: T5 -> T4
:Pawmot: T5 -> UR
:Rabsca: T5 -> UR
 
please can someone explain how gyarados is so low, its like 17% in vgc. im a vgc player not a doubles player and so im so im very surprised.
Iron Hands is everywhere, better intimidate in Arcanine, meh coverage often, rocks weakness, etc. still is solid but not great
 

Actuarily

is a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Community Leader Alumnus
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please can someone explain how gyarados is so low, its like 17% in vgc. im a vgc player not a doubles player and so im so im very surprised.
So currently this is all based on the pre-home metagame, so recently things have changed a lot. But Iron Bundle had become the premier water type, and Gyarados has a really poor matchup into that due to Freeze Dry. My understanding is that a lot of Gyarados’ usage in VGC is due to its good matchup into Ting-Lu, who isn’t used as often here in doubles (while still a decent amount) due to slight metagame differences such as OHKO moves like Fissure being banned.

That all being said, Gyarados was getting used a lot recently in the current tournament, the doubles ladder tournament, mostly as part of this team posted by tyo that has become VERY popular, so perhaps we were sleeping on Gyarados.
 
Thanks, that's helped alot
So currently this is all based on the pre-home metagame, so recently things have changed a lot. But Iron Bundle had become the premier water type, and Gyarados has a really poor matchup into that due to Freeze Dry. My understanding is that a lot of Gyarados’ usage in VGC is due to its good matchup into Ting-Lu, who isn’t used as often here in doubles (while still a decent amount) due to slight metagame differences such as OHKO moves like Fissure being banned.

That all being said, Gyarados was getting used a lot recently in the current tournament, the doubles ladder tournament, mostly as part of this team posted by tyo that has become VERY popular, so perhaps we were sleeping on Gyarados.
 

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