Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Welcome to the LC viability ranking project. In this project, we will "tier" every Pokemon based on usefulness. Broader metagame discussion should be held in the metagame discussion thread. This is a place to talk about the rise and fall of individual pokemon instead.
Below in C & D, these Pokemon are generally considered to have negatives such that they are not considered very competitive choices for your team. However these Pokemon usually have at least one positive quality which makes them usable though nonoptimal. These are generally considered "for fun" but are ranked to indicate their strengths and weaknesses. Please do not spend your energy nominating and discussing if a Pokemon in C should actually be in D (or vice versa).
This thing should be A proper. Firstly, it is a great spin blocker for Sticky Web teams. It threatens Quaxly with an Electric move and nails Toedscool with Tera Ice Tera Blast. Additionally, it can maintain momentum with Volt Switch, a blessing in a generation with such high power threats.
Additionally, I propose we move down to C. There’s not much it does besides set Snow, but Snow itself has been massively nerfed this generation, and as such, running Snover comes with a massive opportunity cost that’s hard to justify.
Nice VR, I agree with just about all of it being at its tier or within 1 tier of its label. relevant exceptions include me thinking tink is A or high A-, and zorua being B (tbf I've not played with it, but I've never been scared of it either). I'm not the most organized so this'll be helpful to me, ty to the VR council for doing this
echoing sentiments of the above two (Tink is great, Snover to C because its just really not great, maggy is genuinely amazing rn and I can't be convinced otherwise) and the fact that Chewtle is not in C automatically makes this a based list, since it means someone else will finally start using the boy.
Croagunk, I understand its C placing. Fighting prio is REALLY valuable and being immune to water is nice but gunk just isnt strong, is the opposite of bulky, has a terrible speed stat for an offensive mon and a typing that isn't great defensively at all. I just really like Gunk and think its huge selection of priority and niche as a water immune prio user who shits on Pawniard is good...
But seeing Cacnea nowhere is a bit wack to me in that vein, probably just the people who hyped it up enough that I actually think it's pretty okay rn (same level as something like Wooper, Wingull or Makuhita-ish) since it's a pretty cool wallbreaker and the best Buizel/Psyduck answer around who still has use midgame from Sucker. Mono Grass means you can use it to switch in on Toedscool once to annoy it since it's one of the few truly spore immune mons who fears neither STAB and doesn't care about Knock Off (as it'll die after one kill anyway.)
Inversely, seeing Surskit that high is also wack. Sticky web is amazing, yes, but Surskit just is so mid with 65 speed, not enough special attack to be actually threatening and being the fastest way to get your opponent's Pawniard to +2. I've yet to see a game where it sets up webs and the team wins without some massive luck not going in their favor, and Misdreavus being gone means Toedscool and Quaxly have an easier time getting those webs out.
Zorua's placement is based, that thing is a monster and nobody is using it. (thank god.) It makes me terrified for Hisui Zorua to show up with STAB Tera Blast and Shadow Ball.
other mons that I don't want moved but i completely agree with:
Maschiff is depressing. If it had sucker it'd be so cool.
Greavard looks tempting and I hope that his VR placement will stop making people run him
Shroodle in B is... yeah. things a great setter up for rain but itself is kinda bleh.
The entirety of S through A- is 100% the list I would make, although I'm a nymble supporter and would but him in A-
This thing should be A proper. Firstly, it is a great spin blocker for Sticky Web teams. It threatens Quaxly with an Electric move and nails Toedscool with Tera Ice Tera Blast. Additionally, it can maintain momentum with Volt Switch, a blessing in a generation with such high power threats.
Additionally, I propose we move down to C. There’s not much it does besides set Snow, but Snow itself has been massively nerfed this generation, and as such, running Snover comes with a massive opportunity cost that’s hard to justify.
This is a sample set of what it can do, and with it you get up to 15 defense before eviolite and snow.
After Eviolite and Snow, you get up to 33.
For context, Onix with Eviolite in last gen also got up to 33. Its a really hard to break over physical wall.
Its move set is also pretty good too. Giga Drain keeps you healthy, while Blizzard is a monstrously terrifying Stab Move which never misses in Snow. Ice Shard is priority to threaten certain mons out, including Toed , Rufflet , Deerling , Mudbray and Diglett . Protect is for Nymble First Impression and scouting choice sets.
Its typing pairs it surprisingly well versus quite a lot of the tier. Fire Types are pretty few and far between (we have 3 on VR and all of them are B) so your quadruple weakness to it doesn't matter very much. You resist Toed's stab combination, Physical Girafarig sets can't harm you super effectively without using a Tera, and Mons such as Deerling, Mudbray, and Diglett get walled pretty effectively. You even sit on Quaxly despite its Brave Bird.
76 Atk Quaxly Brave Bird vs. 36 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Snover in Hail: 10-12 (43.4 - 52.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 12)
So you have some pretty excellent matchups versus a lot of high tier mons. In addition to being an almost hard counter to Rain. Its considered B+, and Snover resetting weather greatly limits anything Rain wants to do. You naturally wall Buizel and remove swift swim boosts. If your opponent Tera's, you can bop em with Ice Shard. Its hard to stop because of the giga drain health boost. If we're going to have rain as something on the radar and Snover can one mon army ruin the archetype, its pretty good.
It does have a few weaknesses, being a rock weakness and that it cannot spin block despite wanting to come in on the two main spinners of the tier. Having rocks up on your opponent's field is pretty vital to ensuring that you keep progress, and having them up on your field is pretty annoying.
I think its honestly a B+ tier mon, but I think I've made the case it shouldn't be in C. Its got good matchups versus top mons, bowls over an archetype and has an absurd defense stat.
I wanna thank you all for putting this ranking, we really needed it.
Anyway I want to give my thoughts about it, what should be ranked more and what less imo.
Mudbray
I think mudbray should be ranked lower like in a or a-. I don’t feel like it is as strong as ther other mons in a+ rank.
Glimmet
Also for glimmet I think it should be ranked a- cuz with the ban of missy, it is hard to keep sr + spikes up because of good spinners like toed and quaxly and also because of the bad defences of spinblockers like gastly and drifloon. The suicide set lead is less stronger than before and it was the most used set before the missy ban. Even if glimmet has a nice movepool and nice offensive stats, I think it should be ranked less.
Surskit
I’m sure this is bad. The reason is mentioned before cuz of the bad spinblockers we have, keeping webs up is really hard and so for this I think it should be ranked b+ at least.
Mareanie
I believe mareanie should be ranked more than b+, it walls the most used mons, it has good defences, good typing (if you are scared about trapping you can just tera water), good movepool with haze or toxic that are really good vs most of the sweepers.
So I think it should be ranked at least a-
Nymble
I’m not sure about this one but it seems like we don’t have a real counter for this one (just tinka and mareanie). It is really good atm especially against playstyle like screens or HO thanks to its strong ability + strong priority fi + uturn + feint + spunch it is really good imo. I’m still not sure if it should be b+ or a-.
Chewtle
Imo it should be ranked b+ because of its good movepool with smash + Tera dark it is really strong especially in a meta where priorities are just sucker punch (diglett, pawn), prankster (blocked by dark type) and fi (only nymble which can be easily trapped by diglett if you are playing the chewtle + dig core). The other priorities are inexistent (ajet quaxly isn’t used, ishard snover Cetoddle aren’t really used). That’s why it is hard stopping chewtle smashing and sweeping and imo it should be ranked a bit more.
Houndour
I think it should be ranked b+, the scarf set seems a good one because in this meta scarf dark types are really good. We have few fights that don’t have a good recovery move (just dpunch, so they don’t have a good longevity). Houndour has a good movepool and good offensive stats that I believe it should be ranked more.
Snover
imo it should be ranked c
Wattrel
And this should be ranked more, good typing, good movepool and stats. It is a good pivot with vswitch or uturn + tbolt and hurricane.
The others are really well-ranked, these are my thoughts, I hope you enjoy them. Thanks for reading.
Here's boxes for sets of the current VR. Tiers are denoted by Applins.
THIS WAS POSTED ON 12/14/2022, PLEASE ENSURE THAT WHEN USING THESE SETS THEY ARE NOT OUTDATED.
Im not perfect at knowing all of these sets, so let me know either in the LC Discord or in this thread if any of these sets seem off and I will update them accordingly.
Edit: Quick disclaimer, but Tera types are very situational in what team you want, so make sure to look into those before putting them onto your team.
12/19 UPDATE:
Removed Rufflet
Changed the Toedscool spread for Utility
Changed the Tinkatink spread and item
Slightly changed the Snover Spread
Tagging PlayerPier2 since I know in the Simple Questions thread he was asking about a VR
I like the VR overall, feels pretty representative of the early meta but there are some things I think are a little off.
A+ > A/A-
I'm a Mudbray believer, but putting it at the very top along with stuff like Pawn and Dig is imo not representative of the meta as it is right now. The mon is obviously quite good, but the usage just isn't there, and the overwhelming presence of water types, especially Quaxly, give the mon a lot of trouble, as well as other things liked Toed and ground-immunes like Gastly and even Rufflet. Putting it in the same tier as a mon like Pawniard, which is nearly mandatory on most standard teams feels quite excessive.
A > B+
I think webs are not that good in this meta. Rock Blast Diglett means that the only actually viable Surskit is Scarfed, which comes with it's own issues, and then on top of that Quaxly and Toed being incredible (even Bramblin hard-countering Surskit) means that it's really hard to maintain webs long enough to actually set your win-con in motion. Sometimes it feels like you'd even rather have Tarountula, which at least ohko's LO Diglett with First Impression.
A- > B+
Very clearly overrated from my experience. Knock Off is not enough to make this mon worthy of B-, and its shallow physical move-pool means that it struggles with basically any dark resist. If you're not running scarf yourself, it also gets demolished by stuff like Rufflet and Tera-Fight Giraffe. I don't really know what this mon is trying to achieve, or what Illusion is supposed to do for it. Like, if you lead it disguised as Rufflet, either they just go to their Rufflet counter (which is probably also a Zorua counter), or they've lead their own Rufflet and just blow you up with Scarf U-Turn. There's enough potential here to put it in B+ but practically speaking I have not seen it have the impact of a mon like Magnemite.
B+ > B
I actually have to disagree with Laro here. This mon just does not do anything, it's often a complete liability. When my opponent sends out their Mareanie (which doesn't happen that often because nobody uses it) I usually find myself overjoyed, because it's a completely free ticket into Giraffe or Gastly or basically anything that can exploit it or just blow it up. There are very few mons in the tier that I find myself glad to encounter, but Mareanie is one of them. I'd still put it at B though just because other people apparently believe in it.
B+ > B
Again I have to disagree with Laro, but to me this mon is a fad. It's good at punishing the rain stuff and other early-meta cheese (which is already falling off as far as I can tell), but at the end of the day it's just a kinda mediocre mon boosted up by new-toy syndrome.
B+ > A-
I was such a doubter of this mon but after using it I actually think it's kinda boss. It's one of the best defensive presences in the tier, coming in on a lot of things, but of course most notably Rufflet, and it's Pickpocket shenanigans are great. The reason I was so apprehensive at first was Diglett of course, but with the ability to Terastallize and the fact that you outspeed it with Rufflet's Scarf (which is easier with innovations like Ballloon Tink), it's actually not that bad.
B > B+
I think this mon is ranked lower than it should be because it took forever for people to figure out what to do with it, but I've come to a personal conclusion that it's definitely deserving of B+, and could increase in the future. I think it's kinda obvious why Drifloon is good, so I'm just going to include the two sets that I've gotten the most merit out of.
Calm Mind (Drifloon) @ Oran Berry
Ability: Unburden
Level: 5
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 196 Atk / 84 Def / 4 SpD / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex
- Thunderbolt
B > B+
This mon is really good, and probably more generally useful than a Fire-type like Fuecoco just by virtue of being quite fast and having U-Turn. Anecdotally speaking I see this mon a lot too. I think it's just a good consistent mon that can use Tera well in a pinch.
B > B-
Not a massive fan of the hound I'm afraid. From using it, the only way I can describe it is that it's just barely too slow, too frail and too weak. Choice Scarf and Flame Charge solve the speed, Eviolite solves the frailty and Life Orb solves the weakness, but sadly you're always going to be lacking some important things to make this mon work as well as others.
B > B+
Very underrated mon, at 17 speed it's the fastest relevant Scarfer in the meta, and it's strong CC's wreck every other scarfer. Combine this with U-turn and some decent coverage options and you have a mon that's easily a Fighting contemporary in B+ with Crabrawler.
B > B-
Is anyone using this shit? Like it should be good, and maybe when the meta settles more it will be but for now this mon deadass does not do anything. It's just... ineffectual, as brutal as that is to say about a mon with Shadow Tag. It will go up, of course, but that's just speculation, and in the meta as it is now this mon kinda blows sadly.
C > B-
Laro is right, this mon is cool, Volt Switch + Healing is awesome, being a Rufflet counter is awesome, even the Offensive sets in Rain or with Tailwind can do damage. I see people like CMDoge using this mon with great success, it's definitely good enough to make the VR proper.
D > B-
Golett is gone so I have to pick a new suboptimal ghost to latch onto
This mon actually has sauce, when you pair it with something like Glimmet I think it's just straight up the best spinblocker. It takes 12% from a Quaxly liquidation and blows up Toedscool with Ice Fang. I think RestTalk sets with this thing should be explored, I believe in it. Even now though I think this mon deserves B-, because it's such an asshole to deal with whenever I run into it.
That's all that stands out to me for now, I imagine as time passes stuff like Psyduck and Buizel will probably go down.
Surskit: It's just not very good
for god's sake, why is this mon in A? It's an enabler of a strategy that is at best inconsistent, and it does it badly. First of all: surskit has the third-worst BST of any mon in LC, behind only Diglett and Nymble. Its ability is completely useless no matter which one you choose, and its movepool is okay but nothing special, aside from one holy move: sticky web. The standard Surskit set carries a focus sash with aqua jet, icy wind (or ice beam; neither actually kill toed), hydro pump (lol) and sticky web, with the aim of setting up webs and then dying, as befits a 'skit.
The problems start when you're no longer facing bugkeeper Bimmy at 1100 ELO, and your opponent actually knows what you're trying to do. Diglett is well known to OHKO Surskit through a sash with a rock blast, and Girafarig effortlessly sets up on it and KOs it with twin beam. Beyond that, it's abysmal at actually keeping webs up once you click your one move (although most webs users have already clocked out at that point). Not only does it have a subpar matchup against the best spinner in the tier in toed (even with 0 special defense EVs, ice beam will never OHKO), it has an absolutely hopeless one against Quaxly, which is likely to end with a Quax at +1 +1 and a hazard-free field.
Now, let's talk about sticky web more broadly. I called it "at best inconsistent" at the start of this post, and some of you may take up arms at that point. But really; Even if you manage to get and keep sticky webs up (no mean feat), what's the game plan? Rufflet both is immune to webs and almost always runs a choice scarf, as well as Gastly currently existing, so any plans to run frail breakers should be put to rest right there. More than that; any user of webs has to deal with playing the sucker punch roulette with a +2 pawniard, and has to find a way around the spore-spamming toedscool that is the bane of special attackers, as well as the equally annoying Fuecoco on the physical side (especially because stealth rock isn't likely to be up). There's also Buizel and Psyduck (faster than everything else even at -1), Nymble (clicks first impression) , Drifloon (another webs immune ghost type), etc...
This isn't just speculation on my part: it has borne out in early tournament results. With just 7% cumulative usage (which has since dropped even further) and a terrible 39% winrate, this past generation gimmick mon hardly seems befitting of the same rank as mons incredibly important to the meta like Quaxly and Glimmet (actual good leads). It's B+ at best, though I'd put it in B.
This isn't an update - I just had some thoughts I wanted to share.
I have been entirely unimpressed with Wattrel and do not think it really should go any higher. If it did, it would probably fit in with B- and this is entirely off the back of how strong Rufflet is. I'm not sure if I or the people wanting this thing raised need to spend more time using it. Zorua is propped up by a lot of the same trends, just more effectively. I think if pretty much anything changes in the metagame Zorua drops like a rock. Knock Off, Illusion as a broken, and Memento are all highly relevant. Mini Pex is just pretty useful and outlasts a lot of things. I think people get trapped and then feel bad about it more than they play well with this guy. Nymble seems to be fairly divisive in that some of the player base thinks it could be higher and a lot think it should be lower. I'm pretty confident in that guy being about right where it landed.
With Mudbray and Glimmet, I'm reasonably sure that they are the worse Pokemon in their ranks or the best if they are moved down. This statement does account for me assuming I underrate Glimmet compared to a 'true' ranking. I personally do think A is a slightly more accurate home for Mudbray.
I don't think Drifloon is any better than ranked. I can also say this about Houndour. Chewtle probably is ranked low but I think anything with Shell Smash is immediately positioned to be broken with Tera in the game. I ranked it with that in mind, and feel that having a Pokemon which needs Tera to do anything is fairly limiting to your ability to navigate the builder and some more irksome threats.
Surskit might be overrated, but it's ranked entire on the back of Webs as always. It feels really bad to talk about webs when very few bo1 instances allow webs to do what it really excels at. My experience with and against webs is that it is high variance low input. This arguably does not describe an A rank Pokemon/playstyle, but there's a fair amount of life in the archetype if you don't get hazards removed within the first few turns. And with Tera in the game (and Berry Juice not) you can make anything deny spin fairly well. Snover is so fun to use, but is probably wrong where it is now. This one is actually Acehunter's fault (ranked A-) and I did not catch it prior to posting. The sane rankers place Snover down to C. I would personally put it in B- but that's honestly because I have a lot of fun using it more than any solid reasoning.
To be honest I think this mon deserves a little more credit. Its BST isn't the most desirable, but it does have some nice qualities that can get some good value in a match.
First, it has a nice typing. With the typing defense profile, you can switch in on mons like Magnemite and Pawniard and it's pretty hard for them to touch you, while you threaten them out with your Ground STAB. You resist Pawniards Iron Head, Brick Break won't hurt too bad. Pawn also doesn't always fit Night Slash into the moveset. Additionally, you're basically untouchable to a Magnemite, resisting one STAB and being immune to the other.
Second, Unaware. This is an excellent ability to have, as you can shut down things like Agility Bulk Up Rufflet and the occasional Swords Dance Pawniard or a screens team.
It has Stealth Rock, Spikes, and reliable recovery in Recover so if you run a mon like Pawniard on the same team as Wooper, the Pawniard is free from having to carry rocks.
Annoying utility like Yawn and Haze can make this mon very nice to have on the team.
I think Wooper could belong in B-, because tbh I think some of the mons in B- are worse than Wooper (Slowpoke and Numel stand out to me, even if I love using Numel on Sun)
Idk about poop woop cause you're suddenly weak to Diglett but maybe it has something good? Its very easy to forget about
This VR is pretty interesting. Lots of stuff I disagree with but its definitely not terrible
S -> S-
this might seem pedantic but I really don't think that Rufflet is anywhere near the same level as Girafarig. sure it hits hard as fuck with the scarf set and bulk up sets are very difficult to manage but it very simply isnt as splashable or versatile as girafarig, only wishing it had half the defensive versatility. pawniard maybe could also join it here in a hypothetical s- because it really isnt a pokemon you can go wrong with just slapping on a team
and Same Rank spinblocking is so unreliable in this meta - a mon that fronts a playstyle entirely dependant on hazards and a mon that is better than everything else at keeping hazards on the field by beating the two most common spinners one on one (barring tera shenanigans) while being immune to spin itself should probably be on the same rank.
Higher this thing is way better than fucking Chewtle and Fuecoco. can trap most Girafarig sets and enables offense in such an absurd manner with its trick scarf sets (locking giraf into twin beam then going sd pawniard is devastating at times, as is locking it into tera blast and going gastly). also really useful for a wide manner of teams. rain for instance really benefits from its ability to trap both foongus and quaxly, two of its worst enemies.
B -> B+ pretty simple really - best rain setter should be in the same rank as its best abusers. eviolite pivot sets are also super slept on, even if just for switching into gastly to bait tera and luring in and knocking pawniard
B+ -> B/B- beating gastly and having sucker is nice but i really dont think this is on the same level as tink, mareanie, nymble, crab or the rain mons. a little lower seems more reasonable.
Going to agree with the noms for glimmet to be lower and magnemite to be higher as well bc i just think magnemite is better than glimmet lmao
I disagree on Greavard having a D tier rating. In my opinion it's definitely better than atleast half of the pokemon in B- tier.
Ever since I fought someone that used Greavard I've tried to get a set that really let's this pokemon shine.
I personally think this pokemon is super solid for spin-blocking.
The ability Fluffy allows it to block all varieties of rapid spinners and tank the moves they want to use on this dog with ease.
196 Atk Toedscool Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 116 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Fluffy Greavard: 5-6 (21.7 - 26%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO
When Eviolite is knocked off Greavard:
196 Atk Toedscool Power Whip vs. 116 HP / 196+ Def Fluffy Greavard: 5-6 (21.7 - 26%) -- 73.8% chance to 4HKO
76 Atk Quaxly Liquidation vs. 116 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Fluffy Greavard: 3-3 (13 - 13%) -- guaranteed 8HKO
156 Atk Bramblin Shadow Sneak vs. 116 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Fluffy Greavard: 4-6 (17.3 - 26%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO
But being able to block a rapid spinner is one thing, how does it deal with them in the long run?
The biggest problem is Quaxly. Greavard doesnt really get moves that deal with Quaxly too well so I had to get creative. I eventually decided on Yawn. Yawn makes my opponent want to switch, as you might imagine this switching will quickly rack up damage will all the hazards I've set up.
If the opponent doesnt switch I can switch into something that takes care of Quaxly, personally I use a scarf Magnemite to do that.
Voltorb would be a good alternative.
The other two rapid spinners that I previously mentioned dont deal with Greavard at all.
188 Atk Greavard Ice Fang vs. 36 HP / 236+ Def Eviolite Toedscool: 16-20 (76.1 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
188 Atk Greavard Shadow Sneak vs. 36 HP / 236+ Def Eviolite Toedscool: 4-6 (19 - 28.5%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO
Ice Fang does huge amounts of damage and with Stealth Rocks up, Greavard threathens a kill afterwards with Shadow Sneak.
They could Spore but I personally take that exchange as they still can't kill Greavard after Spore (see previous Physical Toedscool damage calcs) and doing 76% to your opponents rapid spinner is insane value rendering their spinner basically useless for the rest of the game.
188 Atk Greavard Shadow Sneak vs. 36 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Bramblin: 12-14 (57.1 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Bramblin is just not an option to deal with Greavard.
Another pokemon that I have seen a lot of people bring into my Greavard is Pawniard. Greavard deals with that pretty well also.
Usual moves they click
236 Atk Pawniard Iron Head vs. 116 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Fluffy Greavard: 3-4 (13 - 17.3%) -- possible 6HKO
236 Atk Pawniard Sucker Punch vs. 116 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Fluffy Greavard: 7-9 (30.4 - 39.1%) -- 17.6% chance to 3HKO
Rare night slash set.
236 Atk Pawniard Night Slash vs. 116 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Fluffy Greavard: 7-9 (30.4 - 39.1%) -- 17.6% chance to 3HKO
236 Atk Pawniard Night Slash vs. 116 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Fluffy Greavard on a critical hit: 10-13 (43.4 - 56.5%) -- 59.4% chance to 2HKO
The move I click
188 Atk Greavard Stomping Tantrum vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Pawniard: 10-12 (47.6 - 57.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Okay so I think I've made a case for Greavard being a good option to deal with rapid spinners, but what about other pokemon?
Because of the ability Fluffy, using a physical attacker to deal with greavard is a no go. Greavard is able to take 2 hits from all physical attackers as long as they didnt get a boost from tera.
I think so
So the best option to deal with Greavard would be special attackers. The two ghost types might come to mind.
200 SpA Life Orb Gastly Shadow Ball vs. 116 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Greavard: 23-31 (100 - 134.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
196 SpA Drifloon Shadow Ball vs. 116 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Greavard: 14-20 (60.8 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
However, I ask you to take a look at the following calcs:
188 Atk Greavard Ice Fang vs. 116 HP / 164 Def Eviolite Drifloon: 10-12 (37 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
188 Atk Greavard Shadow Sneak vs. 116 HP / 164 Def Eviolite Drifloon: 8-12 (29.6 - 44.4%) -- 17.6% chance to 3HKO
188 Atk Greavard Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gastly: 14-20 (73.6 - 105.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
Possible damage amounts: (14, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 20)
188 Atk Greavard Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gastly: 14-20 (73.6 - 105.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
188 Atk Greavard Ice Fang vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gastly: 8-10 (42.1 - 52.6%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO
The tanky Drifloon set definitely takes care of Greavard pretty well, but assuming I have stealth rocks set up this pokemon dies when it tries to switch in. The other ghost, Gastly, doesn't deal with Greavard well at all.
For those unaware, I highlighted the Gastly damage amounts due to the fact that Gastly has 19 HP.
Because of this the Life Orb Gastly set dies to Greavard after using Shadow Ball 93.8% of the time due to the fact that Greavard has a high likelyhood to deal 18 damage or more with Shadow Sneak.
There's definitely better options to deal with Greavard like Girafarig , but from my experience people usually tend to use their ghost types to try and take care of Greavard because they are both free switch ins into Greavards Stomping Tantrum. Predicting these switch ins is pretty easy (Quaxly just got yawned, what pokemon would they want to switch to??) and a successful predict leads to an easy kill pickup.
I hope that the extensive amount of calcs helped me convince some of you to give the dog a try and get it out of the D tier.
Since the viability rankings came out I've wanted to make a case for this dog. Hopefully this post will convince the council that this dog is not D tier in the slightest, but rather a solid spin blocker that can poke massive holes in the opponents team with the help of hazards.
The team I've used quickly got me to 1400 elo on the ladder on an alt account that I use to test weird teams (WhatIsALC?) and I have also used it twice in round 4 of the SV LC Kickoff with success. Maybe someone else wants to try it and have as much fun with it as I did.
Is Tandemaus able to have Pop. Bomb at level 5? I remember Meowth being good in some older gen because of the way multi-hit moves work in LC and it having access to Fury Swipes
Is Tandemaus able to have Pop. Bomb at level 5? I remember Meowth being good in some older gen because of the way multi-hit moves work in LC and it having access to Fury Swipes
Quick thoughts about the current VR and some of the mons on it from the perspective of a 1500 player. A -> B+ / B
Tbh Webs are not really great right now, considering 2 out of the 3 best mons in the tier are either immune / have an ability that counter webs, aswell as the two main spinners being both really good right now + Diglett makes it a pretty mid playstyle. Its probably going to be better if Rufflet gets banned.
A- -> B
I mean its fine, STAB knock is neat aswell as illusion but this thing does not touch pawn without tera blast and probably becomes D tier fodder when anything gets banned.
B -> B+(?)
Tera Dark these two and these completely own Screen teams. Are they good outside of that niche? Kinda? Both are really scary late game sweepers that have the issue of prio being everywhere currently (Sucker Punch Zorua / Dig / Pawn, First Impression Nymble, AJ Quax assuming they terad into something not resisting water.) I think they both could have a case for B+ but Im not 100% sure on it.
B+ -> B / B-
This is overrated as all hell right now and suffers shiny new toy syndrome. A rocks weakness and pretty much dying to any attack if it cant OHKO a target with first impression is really bad. It also loses to protect diglett which imo is better than Sub on Diglett right now. Though Tinted Lens is neat.
B -> C
Why should we be running this over Shroodle as a rain setter? Why do people think LO Tera Ice Sets are good? I dont know this thing just doesnt nothing.
C -> D / UR
What does this thing do aside from being a mid pick on rain teams (which themselves i think are overrated right now.) Its the worst mon in C by a long shot and deserves a notch down.
Quick Post B -> B+
Gothita has a niche that is, as of current, somewhat underrated. It can trap Pokemon that are weak to its attacks or low health Pokemon via running Choice Scarf. It's also able to take advantage of Pokemon like Girafarig that Teratalized into a Fighting-type. I've been using it with SD Pawniard and it's able to force at least a little bit progress every game. Due to this, I believe it should be raised a bit on the VR.
Honestly i think this mon is a+ but ill avoid the haha reacts.
This thing rnis probably the best scarfer in the meta after ruffs departure, since i think scarf gastly has lost its main reason to exist (rk on ruff lol). Fighting is a really spammable move in the metagame, since most teams either dont run a fighting resist, their fighting resist gets trapped by diglett (mareanie) or its a gastly. With cc/eq/night slash/u turn you get coverage for absolutely everything you need + roken move u turn, which gives your scarfer a lot more utility. Its quite usual to end up sweeping teams with tera close combat, as most teams (at least the ones used in kickoff) dont run fighting resists. It also has the utility of resisting sucker punch (so you easily beat pawn) and fucking parting shot. I think its very difficult to check team building wise.
Of course, its not a mon without its flaws. Its not bulky and its defensive typing leaves a lot to be desired, so you cant just hard switch it in unless you read a sucker or rocks, or dont value its hp. Good thing is, it resists rocks itself so it doesnt get easily worn down. It also isnt as fast as +1 girafarig (even tho i think people are optingfor coverage options instead of trailblaze, or even special sets),and you sadly dont ohko it even w tera (even do you uturn on it). Also, just sometimes, but locking into cc can be not optimal, as it can give gastly/id mareanie a free turn.
As a conclusion, while its not the easiest mon to get on the field, mankey is a very good cleaner rn, as its stab is hard to resist, can terastalize to give its close combat more power, and has utility between uturn and sucker. Its normal to use this mon early game to break holes w uturn and trap things, and sweep late game. For these reasons, im vouching for it to go up to b+ at least, hopefully a-.
lower (a/a-) trash tier (kinda bad on non ho without ruff, doesnt set rocks on anything really, same with tink. could go up definitely down rain setters and rain abusers should have the same rank, it makes no sense that buizel alone is that high while the monst that enable it arent
Imo Sprigatito is a very underated mon. It can be very annoying to play against and it will get the job done. In particular, it is a great scarf user with access to Protean boosted U-Turns, as well as Petal Blizzard, Play Rough and Shadow CLaw for coverage, or even Sucker Punch to outprioritize things such as Diglett trying to Sucker Punch you. Also a U-Turn brings Girafarig exactly in range for a Sucker Punch from Pawniard to OHKO it, even if it terastalizes into Fighting. In fact, it doesnt need to terastalize itself, leaving a teamate make use of it. Rufflet's recent bann was especially good for Sprigatito, since it could do basically nothing against it other than U-Turn or Play Rough it for little damage and then faint. However, now it can even run Adamant Nature, doing more damage, since Mankey and Scarf Larvesta aren't very common, not to mention it eats Digletts, Mudbrays, Quaxlys, Crablawlers and Impidimps for breakfast, while also being immune to Toedscool's Spore and occasional Giga Drain.
C -> B/B-
Ok I know it's annoying to keep talking about a C rank Pokemon but I would like to explain Wattrel as I think some people are misunderstanding its use, and as someone who has used it a lot, I'd like to explain what I believe that use is. Wattrel is NOT and I repeat NOT a rain Pokemon. Yes, it can work well on rain teams and has a niche there, but that is not its overall niche in LC. Its niche is Volt Switch + Hurricane. Essentially, the primary use case of this beautiful bird is making the most popular Ground-types less safe switch-ins to Volt Switch. Toed, for obvious reasons doesn't like a Hurricane to the face, and Diglett with its like negative HP stat gets equally boomed. But, even bulky Mudbray sets get hit p hard but a Hurricane:
236 SpA Wattrel Hurricane vs. 36 HP / 36 SpD Eviolite Toedscool: 14-20 (66.6 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
236 SpA Wattrel Hurricane vs. 36 HP / 0 SpD Diglett: 16-21 (88.8 - 116.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
236 SpA Wattrel Hurricane vs. 36 HP / 0 SpD Mudbray: 16-19 (66.6 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
236 SpA Wattrel Hurricane vs. 36 HP / 236+ SpD Eviolite Mudbray: 7-10 (29.1 - 41.6%) -- 99% chance to 3HKO
It doesn't just hit these Grounds on switch in, but can also itself switch in a solid predication, especially with Toed and Mudbray. The Bray set listed above is from its RestTalk set, one that Watt can switch into quite safely as long as Rocks aren't up as it resists Heavy Slam and is immune to EQ. If Bray is scarfed, apart from only being able to take one Hurricane, a good prediction can also let Watt in free of charge. I originally ran Oran Berry Watt (RIP Berry Juice), but I've found Eviolite fairly useful, especially alongside Roost, making its ability to stay around even despite being chipped even stronger. Toed's only real recourse against Watt is Spore and Knock Off, and if it switches into a Hurricane the former becomes immediately unsafe. As a side note here it is also a completely safe switch-in on Magnemite and Voltorb due to Volt Absorb, though I've found this comes up less often. Other varyingly safe switch-ins include Physical Floon, Nymble, Mankey and Crabrawler (on a good read), and turn one Surskit.
All of this is only to mention Hurricane, too. Just as with Magnemite, the real utility of this mon is as a tempo switcher. Because Hurricane covers almost every top tier Volt Switch switch-in, Watt can just continually whittle down opponents while ensuring the player always has a leg up tempo wise. While it doesn't threaten a whole lot of OHKO's, its momentum gain for offense teams makes it honestly pretty useful and I would recommend giving it a try if you feel like your Magnemite is getting simply switched in on one to many times. I found it worked incredibly well with Rufflet, though honestly any strong offensive mon appreciates easy switch-ins and chipping of bulky threats (I've just begun experimenting with Watt/Gastly). Also, as another side note, because it's not super in need of Terastal, I use a Water type Terastal as an "Oh Shit" button for rain. My set is below:
Wattrel @ Eviolite / Oran Berry
Ability: Volt Absorb
Level: 5
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 36 HP / 236 SpA / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Hurricane
- Thunderbolt
- Roost / Tera Blast
I think this little birdie is worth a second look at being B-, if not B tier. I'd rank it similarly to Larvesta as it has similar strengths (hard to switch into, big momentum builder, consistent recovery) and similar weaknesses (Rocks, lack of easy OHKOs, can't always switch in), though I'd understand if it was placed in B- as it lacks the competitive history of Larv. Overall, though, my main point is basing your ranking of this thing on its viability in rain is short sighted. I think that it genuinely has a place in this meta on offense teams that fear Toed and Mudbray, as it can successfully lure them in and whittle them down.
Also for some brief thoughts with no elaboration:
S. Literally so S tier, easy second only to Gira
Do not get the hype, it's p good but A is too high
Way better than D, solid tank that's pretty hard to switch into, Rest set is the best set
Too high, webs is def not A-tier atm IMO, as one of the best 2 mons is honestly too bulky to give a shit (for the love of god pls ban Gira) and the other actively likely being webbed
A might be a little too high but this thing is better than Shellos LMAO
This thing is good but not as good as Toed and Bray. A tier
View attachment 476383 C -> B/B-
Ok I know it's annoying to keep talking about a C rank Pokemon but I would like to explain Wattrel as I think some people are misunderstanding its use, and as someone who has used it a lot, I'd like to explain what I believe that use is. Wattrel is NOT and I repeat NOT a rain Pokemon. Yes, it can work well on rain teams and has a niche there, but that is not its overall niche in LC. Its niche is Volt Switch + Hurricane. Essentially, the primary use case of this beautiful bird is making the most popular Ground-types less safe switch-ins to Volt Switch. Toed, for obvious reasons doesn't like a Hurricane to the face, and Diglett with its like negative HP stat gets equally boomed. But, even bulky Mudbray sets get hit p hard but a Hurricane:
236 SpA Wattrel Hurricane vs. 36 HP / 36 SpD Eviolite Toedscool: 14-20 (66.6 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
236 SpA Wattrel Hurricane vs. 36 HP / 0 SpD Diglett: 16-21 (88.8 - 116.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
236 SpA Wattrel Hurricane vs. 36 HP / 0 SpD Mudbray: 16-19 (66.6 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
236 SpA Wattrel Hurricane vs. 36 HP / 236+ SpD Eviolite Mudbray: 7-10 (29.1 - 41.6%) -- 99% chance to 3HKO
It doesn't just hit these Grounds on switch in, but can also itself switch in a solid predication, especially with Toed and Mudbray. The Bray set listed above is from its RestTalk set, one that Watt can switch into quite safely as long as Rocks aren't up as it resists Heavy Slam and is immune to EQ. If Bray is scarfed, apart from only being able to take one Hurricane, a good prediction can also let Watt in free of charge. I originally ran Oran Berry Watt (RIP Berry Juice), but I've found Eviolite fairly useful, especially alongside Roost, making its ability to stay around even despite being chipped even stronger. Toed's only real recourse against Watt is Spore and Knock Off, and if it switches into a Hurricane the former becomes immediately unsafe. As a side note here it is also a completely safe switch-in on Magnemite and Voltorb due to Volt Absorb, though I've found this comes up less often. Other varyingly safe switch-ins include Physical Floon, Nymble, Mankey and Crabrawler (on a good read), and turn one Surskit.
All of this is only to mention Hurricane, too. Just as with Magnemite, the real utility of this mon is as a tempo switcher. Because Hurricane covers almost every top tier Volt Switch switch-in, Watt can just continually whittle down opponents while ensuring the player always has a leg up tempo wise. While it doesn't threaten a whole lot of OHKO's, its momentum gain for offense teams makes it honestly pretty useful and I would recommend giving it a try if you feel like your Magnemite is getting simply switched in on one to many times. I found it worked incredibly well with Rufflet, though honestly any strong offensive mon appreciates easy switch-ins and chipping of bulky threats (I've just begun experimenting with Watt/Gastly). Also, as another side note, because it's not super in need of Terastal, I use a Water type Terastal as an "Oh Shit" button for rain. My set is below:
Wattrel @ Eviolite / Oran Berry
Ability: Volt Absorb
Level: 5
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 36 HP / 236 SpA / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Hurricane
- Thunderbolt
- Roost / Tera Blast
I think this little birdie is worth a second look at being B-, if not B tier. I'd rank it similarly to Larvesta as it has similar strengths (hard to switch into, big momentum builder, consistent recovery) and similar weaknesses (Rocks, lack of easy OHKOs, can't always switch in), though I'd understand if it was placed in B- as it lacks the competitive history of Larv. Overall, though, my main point is basing your ranking of this thing on its viability in rain is short sighted. I think that it genuinely has a place in this meta on offense teams that fear Toed and Mudbray, as it can successfully lure them in and whittle them down.
pretty damn good arguement for watt, i might have to test him in the future
however, since we are on the topic of underrated pokemon, i've gotta talk about my favorite mon in the tier,
pineco!
this little thing is my favorite mon in the tier and i will tell you why
on first look at its stats you might think this little soccer ball is hot garbage
and you'd be right but it does have some really fun elements to it
first off it has an unironically pretty ok move pool and bug stab, which is unironically really good for the tier but i digress, it has the dual screens, a rapid spin and most importantly, all 3 hazards. this thing is a hazard stacking MACHINE.
it doesn't end there though, it has even more fun tools like gyro ball, counter, 3 weathers, power trick, sand tomb, explosion, roll out and you can harness your inner gen 2 and go for a reversal/flail set with your sturdy!
now is this practical
no
but is this fun?
absolutely
this thing has so many funny tools to use and its a riot seeing this thing in action
the most practical set is probably stealth rock, spikes, rapid spin and pin missile but honestly, who cares
if you're using pineco you do not give a single care about what the meta is
you just want to use the funny pinecone
the reason this is my favorite mon in the tier is because this mon encourages creativity to the highest degree
and thats the greatest feeling in pokemon
so please test with this little mistake of nature and make the most batshit insane sets you can with him
the pineco uprising will begin and i'm all for it
Starting with Nymble, this mon has just about the biggest new toy syndrome of anything in this tier, but it's nice to beat some specific teams, so it still deserves an ok ranking
Deerling is Dunsparce if it lacked the Defenses and HP that made Sparce unbearable. Sparce could take hits even if you broke through the Headbutts, Bites and paralysis that it weaponized, but Deerling doesn't have the same luxury.
That B tier is kinda stacked though. Time to fix it!
ALL OF THESE UP TO B+ (Drifloon could even be A-)
The spike in usage Drifloon has experimented is due to its decent natural bulk, as well as being able to spread status with Will-O-Wisp and Thunder Wave, crippling a lot of common metagame trends such as non-Night Slash Pawniard, Mudbray, non-Tera Dark Girafarig, and Quaxly to mention some. It does not end there, as it has become a staple for hazard stack with Glimmet thanks to the spread Toxic Spikes so it can also act as a Calm Mind setup sweeper once threats like Pawniard, physical Girafarig and Fuecoco are gone. Though it can run the coverage it wants, it should get those listed Pokemon removed or weakened. It can also opt to run mixed sets where consuming Oran Berry enables it to click Acrobatics against non-resists, or become a decent Defogger if Pawniard is not in the game. Though it still dislikes Glimmet and Toedscool a lot, I think that by raw usage it could also spring up to A-, but time will tell.
Larvesta has proven to be a really good offensive pivot thanks to its Scarf sets being able to dish out big damage with Wild Charge to switch-ins that can handle its STABs such as Mareanie, or pivoting around answers to it such as Glimmet so Diglett can safely enter and trap it. The combination of Bug + Fire STABs allows it to comfortably play a 50/50 where you mostly can get away by clicking U-turn, making it really hard to deal with. Defensive variants are no slouch either, specially those who are uninvested in Speed, as it can get a safe slow pivot against faster threats like Toedscool, while also abusing its high Defense + Flame Body to switch into Pawniard and potentially burn it. The fact that Larvesta can run two sets gives room to prediction where it can also run Flame Charge to umpromptly outspeed every unboosted Pokemon in the metagame after a boost and threaten most Pokemon out thanks to its STABs, while having a decent mean of recovery in Morning Sun.
As Eric already mentioned, this metagame has a great lack of Fighting checks with teams running Pokemon that can't avoid getting 2HKO'd by Close Combat, coupled to its coverage options in EQ, Night Slash, Ice Punch and Stone Edge, while being also to pivot with U-turn. It is the fastest Scarf user in the metagame and it is really strong, while being able to handle Sucker Punch and Parting Shot. I don't have to speak more about it as Eric has showcased its strengths, but I feel B+ is more than enough of a raise.
Lastly, Tera Grass Fuecoco is able to put up with many of the Pokemon in the upper tiers thanks to its combination of utility, bulk and Unaware, being able to comfortably check common threats like Mudbray, Toedscool, Pawniard, Girafarig, and a big plethora of setup sweepers, one in a single slot by using Roar + Will-O-Wisp. Have in mind that it still needs Stealth Rock away from the field to fully work in proper condition, and it becomes quite passive against the likes of Glimmet and Quaxly, while other Pokemon like Gastly can hit it real hard and take a chunk of its life away.
A+ > S
I hope there is no disagreement. Diglett's sets are REALLY easy to tailor to its team needs, with Tera Blast Ice/Dark being able to trap or revenge kill a lot of common Pokemon like Toedscool and non-Tera Fighting Girafarig, and Tera Dark gives it an inmunity to Prankster and a resistance to the most common priority move in Sucker Punch, meaning it is also able to trap Pawniard effortlessly, given that it does not run Choice Scarf. If the opponent already wasted its Tera slot, the list can grow up adding Mareanie. Common moveset it carries is EQ/Rock Blast/Sucker Punch/filler, whereas the filler can be Protect to avoid Nymble's revenge killing and scout for movesets, the aforementioned Tera Blast to pick up common metagame trends, Substitute to play around the opponent's pasive options, and Memento in hyper offense to give chances to setup to its teammates.
B+ > A-
This Pokemon is very slept on, it can set Toxic Spikes for Gastly and Drifloon to abuse, has really good bulk to halt Quaxly and Pawniard and Recover + Regenerator to make it a pain in the ass to kill, and can even run Iron Defense to make itself even more difficult to defeat using physical attacks and therefore defeat both Diglett and Mudbray. Although less common, it can also tech Ice Beam to give Toedscool a nasty surprise. Its Poison typing is much appreciated in a metagame where Glimmet runs rampant as it can delete the Toxic Spikes that might have been spread via Toxic Debris and check it.
A > A-/B+
Don't get me wrong. Webs are really good on paper but the moment you have to play the lead matchup against Toedscool or Quaxly you know it's going to be harsh, as you can risk getting your Webs spun away and end up having a 5v6 matchup where you heavily depend on having two Ghost-types (Greavard + choice Ghost-type between Gastly and Drifloon) to make it work by removing Toedscool and forcing Quaxly out, meaning it can be a drag to build with. I even have been forced at some point to waste my Tera slot on Ghost Surskit so they don't get spun away, but it is what I said, a waste. It does not necessarily mean they are bad, just not as consistent as they once were.
A > Remain in A
Hell no. This Pokemon is still really good by setting hazards up and firing strong moves, and the fact that you can get these up pretty quickly makes it a big enough threat. It can also choose not to run Spikes and use Mud Shot (I know it sounds meme but I kid you not) to hit Pokemon that would check it like Pawniard, Mareanie and Girafarig to hit them super effectively or slow them down, or it can also run various Tera types like Flying to set up more hazards against Diglett or hit it hard while also being able to resists Toedscool STABs, Tera Blast Ice to pick Toedscool by surprise, or Ghost so you avoid getting your hazards spun.
to A
the sesh crab has been a personal favorite for me this generation with its strong hits, iron fist, and some pretty solid coverage with earthquake to send tinkatink back to the mines, ice punch to decimate toedscool and any other ground or flying type to the graveyard, and thunder punch to dispatch that pesky duck on the opposite side of the feild. it gets somewhat reliable recovery in drain punch as its premium stab, throw a scarf on it, and it'll revenge kill anything that doesn't resist or is girafirig
View attachment 477378A+ > S
I hope there is no disagreement. Diglett's sets are REALLY easy to tailor to its team needs, with Tera Blast Ice/Dark being able to trap or revenge kill a lot of common Pokemon like Toedscool and non-Tera Fighting Girafarig, and Tera Dark gives it an inmunity to Prankster and a resistance to the most common priority move in Sucker Punch, meaning it is also able to trap Pawniard effortlessly, given that it does not run Choice Scarf. If the opponent already wasted its Tera slot, the list can grow up adding Mareanie. Common moveset it carries is EQ/Rock Blast/Sucker Punch/filler, whereas the filler can be Protect to avoid Nymble's revenge killing and scout for movesets, the aforementioned Tera Blast to pick up common metagame trends, Substitute to play around the opponent's pasive options, and Memento in hyper offense to give chances to setup to its teammates.
Elfu used it incredibly well in finals and as long as this is a giraffe meta that will be a relevant set. It hits Toed and Giraffe x2 as opposed to tera dark only hitting Giraffe.
Mienfoo
Vullaby
Gastly
Growlithe-Hisui
Mudbray
Stunky
Voltorb-Hisui
Foongus
Pawniard
Shellder
Diglett-Alola
Glimmet
Mareanie
Snubbull
Tinkatink
Toedscool
Chinchou
Elekid
Gothita
Koffing
Magby
Timburr
Trapinch
Zorua-Hisui
Doduo
Drilbur
Impidimp
Minccino
Sandshrew-Alola
Snover
Bellsprout
Bulbasaur
Charmander
Drifloon
Grookey
Larvesta
Magnemite
Nymble
Shroodle
Torchic
Blitzle
Buizel
Chespin
Corphish
Cottonee
Gible
Grimer-Alola
Meowth
Numel
Psyduck
Rhyhorn
Shellos
Tentacool
Wattrel
with Eviolite in last gen also got up to 33. Its a really hard to break over physical wall.
, Deerling 
, Mudbray 
. Protect is for Nymble 
sets can't harm you super effectively without using a Tera, and Mons such as Deerling, Mudbray, and Diglett get walled pretty effectively. You even sit on Quaxly 
Surskit
Chewtle
Houndour
B -> C
to A