Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]

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Catzzadilla said:
Warning: this is a fever dream of me wishing to see a bad Arceus Type fall to OU just because of the typing alone, for funny reasons. Yeah I was serious when I wrote this but I'm just about to hit post and I realize now how nonsensical this is. But I spent like 4 hours on this so let me cook. Tera is a lie invented by the government to sell more jewellery.
:sv/arceus-bug:
What are your thoughts on Arceus-Bug in OU? It has great stats and a (potentially) great movepool but no ability, no item, is weak to hazards, status and has questionnable STAB.

Here's some calcs I did for those interested: no I changed my mind you are going to look at the calcs I spent way too much time on them

I made these calcs using Smogon OU sets for the OU mons, and the Calm Mind Uber set for Arceus-Bug (and added Judgement as a STAB option just in case)

To start off, let's start with how much power Arceus would pack at +1 against some of the most common OU walls. I added and removed stat boosts depending on the opponent's set.

+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Amoonguss: 248-294 (57.4 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Amoonguss: 124-147 (28.7 - 34%) -- 1.6% chance to 3HKO
+1 8 SpA Insect Plate Arceus-Bug Judgment vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Amoonguss: 247-292 (57.1 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
8 SpA Arceus-Bug Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Amoonguss: 166-196 (38.4 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
8 SpA Arceus-Bug Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Amoonguss: 83-98 (19.2 - 22.6%) -- possible 5HKO
8 SpA Insect Plate Arceus-Bug Judgment vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Amoonguss: 166-196 (38.4 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Unaware Clodsire: 112-132 (24.1 - 28.5%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Unaware Clodsire: 112-132 (24.1 - 28.5%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Corviknight: 130-153 (32.5 - 38.3%) -- 2.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Corviknight: 130-153 (32.5 - 38.3%) -- 98.6% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+1 8 SpA Insect Plate Arceus-Bug Judgment vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 390-462 (87.8 - 104%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
+1 8 SpA Insect Plate Arceus-Bug Judgment vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 260-308 (58.5 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
8 SpA Insect Plate Arceus-Bug Judgment vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 174-206 (39.1 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 246-290 (65 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 8 SpA Insect Plate Arceus-Bug Judgment vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Hatterene: 148-175 (46.5 - 55%) -- 13.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 8 SpA Insect Plate Arceus-Bug Judgment vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hatterene: 222-262 (69.8 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 8 SpA Insect Plate Arceus-Bug Judgment vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Hatterene: 222-262 (70 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 120+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar: 114-136 (28.9 - 34.5%) -- 4.7% chance to 3HKO
+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowking-Galar: 210-248 (53.2 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 144-170 (28 - 33%) -- 84.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 8 SpA Insect Plate Arceus-Bug Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 288-338 (56 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
8 SpA Arceus-Bug Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 96-114 (18.6 - 22.1%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
8 SpA Insect Plate Arceus-Bug Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 188-224 (36.5 - 43.5%) -- 99.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Toxapex: 112-134 (36.9 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Toxapex: 160-190 (52.6 - 62.5%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
8 SpA Arceus-Bug Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Toxapex: 108-128 (35.5 - 42.1%) -- 85.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Ice Beam/Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zamazenta: 102-120 (26.2 - 30.9%) -- 6.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery (both moves have the same values)
+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Ice Beam/Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zamazenta: 102-120 (31.3 - 36.9%) -- 77% chance to 3HKO (both moves have the same values)

Now let's make like Nietzsche and attempt to kill god with our own hands, this time with OU's special attackers. This includes a calc for their most relevant moves, one of which Arceus is at +1spdef and one after stealth rock switch-in, with a +1spdef only if arceus is faster and can get off a calm mind before the opponent moves.

252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 153-180 (34.5 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 228-268 (51.4 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Flamethrower vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 140-166 (31.6 - 37.4%) -- 86.5% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 210-248 (47.4 - 55.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+1 252 SpA Enamorus Mystical Fire vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 146-172 (32.9 - 38.8%) -- 99.1% chance to 3HKO
+1 252 SpA Enamorus Mystical Fire vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 146-172 (32.9 - 38.8%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
this is a calm mind enam, but choice specs are the same results

252+ SpA Life Orb Garchomp Fire Blast vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 143-169 (32.2 - 38.1%) -- 94.5% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Garchomp Fire Blast vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 143-169 (32.2 - 38.1%) -- 2.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 125-148 (28.2 - 33.4%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 125-148 (28.2 - 33.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 228-268 (51.4 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 228-268 (51.4 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 114-135 (25.7 - 30.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 114-135 (25.7 - 30.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 187-222 (42.2 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 187-222 (42.2 - 50.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 114-136 (25.7 - 30.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 169-200 (38.1 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 172-203 (38.8 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 253-300 (57.1 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 130-154 (29.3 - 34.7%) -- 7.9% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 195-231 (44 - 52.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 186-222 (41.9 - 50.1%) -- 89.5% chance to 2HKO after trapping damage
252 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 186-222 (41.9 - 50.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and trapping damage

132 SpA Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 146-174 (32.9 - 39.2%) -- 99.5% chance to 3HKO
132 SpA Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 218-258 (49.2 - 58.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 132 SpA Quark Drive Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 284-336 (64.1 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 132 SpA Quark Drive Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 284-336 (64.1 - 75.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Moth Overheat vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 384-452 (86.6 - 102%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Moth Overheat vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 384-452 (86.6 - 102%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
-2 252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Moth Overheat vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 192-228 (43.3 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+1 252 SpA Quark Drive Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 163-193 (36.7 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252 SpA Quark Drive Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 163-193 (36.7 - 43.5%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Quark Drive Iron Valiant Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 137-162 (30.9 - 36.5%) -- 65.6% chance to 3HKO
+1 252 SpA Quark Drive Iron Valiant Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 137-162 (30.9 - 36.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 84-100 (18.9 - 22.5%) -- possible 5HKO
252 SpA Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 127-150 (28.6 - 33.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 126-148 (28.4 - 33.4%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 126-148 (28.4 - 33.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Valiant Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 106-125 (23.9 - 28.2%) -- 94.4% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Valiant Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 106-125 (23.9 - 28.2%) -- 90.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

208 SpA Sandy Shocks Thunderbolt vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 78-93 (17.6 - 20.9%) -- possible 5HKO
208 SpA Sandy Shocks Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 117-138 (26.4 - 31.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

ok there are a lot of calcs here, but this should cover if you have specs, booster energy, if you are in sun, etc. I ADHD pretty hard on this one. You're welcome, Wacky Wink fans.
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Draco Meteor vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 177-208 (39.9 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Draco Meteor vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 177-208 (39.9 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 262-310 (59.1 - 69.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Flamethrower vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 162-192 (36.5 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Flamethrower vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 162-192 (36.5 - 43.3%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug in Sun: 366-432 (82.6 - 97.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug in Sun: 366-432 (82.6 - 97.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Walking Wake Flamethrower vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 156-184 (35.2 - 41.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Walking Wake Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 234-276 (52.8 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Walking Wake Flamethrower vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug in Sun: 234-276 (52.8 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Walking Wake Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug in Sun: 350-414 (79 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug in Sun: 121-144 (27.3 - 32.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug in Sun: 180-213 (40.6 - 48%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug in Sun: 156-184 (35.2 - 41.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug in Sun: 156-184 (35.2 - 41.5%) -- 70.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

What about physical attackers? i'm getting tired so let's just physical attackers that threaten buggy boy, with only their strongest or threatening moves.

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 229-271 (51.6 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (&after Stealth Rock)
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 610-718 (137.6 - 162%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Choice Band Baxcalibur Glaive Rush vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 271-321 (61.1 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (&after Stealth Rock)
+1 252 Atk Baxcalibur Glaive Rush vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 271-321 (61.1 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (&after Stealth Rock)
+2 252 Atk Baxcalibur Glaive Rush vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 364-429 (82.1 - 96.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)

252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 308-366 (69.5 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
32 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 258-306 (58.2 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (&after Stealth Rock)

252 Atk Choice Band Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 200-236 (45.1 - 53.2%) -- approx. 25.8% chance to 2HKO (also says "approx. 2HKO after Stealth Rock"; like, without a percentage or anything. Is this bugged?)

252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Outrage vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 282-333 (63.6 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Fire Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 236-278 (53.2 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (& after Stealth Rock) [this is a +1 calc and is also true for choice band]

252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 3 allies fainted Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 175-207 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Landorus-Therian Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 204-240 (46 - 54.1%) -- 48.4% chance to 2HKO (guaranteed after Stealth Rock)
252 Atk Tera Flying Landorus-Therian Tera Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 324-384 (73.1 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)

252 Atk Choice Band Sneasler Dire Claw vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 168-198 (37.9 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (3HKO without it)

252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Normal Lechonk Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 194-230 (43.7 - 51.9%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO

Okay that's it for the calcs say thank you to the adhd everyone! thank you!!!!!!

It's easy to see those calcs and see that Arceus-Bug makes big damage, but dont forget he takes big damage too!!!! Unable to put on boots because he needs to hold his bug certificate, Arceus-Bug is very weak to hazards, especially rocks and Tspikes. His only method of recovery is limited to 8 Recovers and he has no way to remove status. A lot of OU mons put Arceus-Bug in the "Uh-Oh" range and chances are he might start spamming his recovers like a nerd with an inhaler on his first date.
Overall, this puts Bug Boy as a fragile stallbreaker imo, and I don't know what else to say except these numbers mean nothing to me, I play low ladder, I am very tired and I want to see the OU tier squish Arceus-Bug or die trying.
But hey! Maybe I'm overlooking some things! Maybe Arceus has better moves, threatens more mons than I thought of, is threatened more by some mons than I thought, has much more weaknesses, or maybe he's literally the god of the pokémon world and I forgot all about that part.
whaddaya think.
suspect or sus post.
ok bye I don't know how to end a post so
Click to expand...

Remember first of all, Arceus can just tera out of its bad typing and, second of all, it would still be broken anyway, and third of all, it might just not use STAB Judgement and use BoltBeam coverage or BoltEP coverage.
 
:volcarona: 1. Volcarona is absurd, it's checks aren't nearly as splashable as other pokemons checks and fail to beat it consistently, it's ability to check pokemon like Iron Valiant make it even more banworthy IMO because defensive checking means more setup opportunities.

:Palafin: 1, needs no explanation. Box legend tier mon that only sacrifices a small bit of momentum early game.

:Zamazenta-Crowned: 2, I wouldn't want it in OU but it's inclusion wouldn't be as awful as Volc and Palafin. Still definitely broken

:Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: 2, doesn't have the sweeping potential of Palafin but still broken
 
Catzzadilla said:
Warning: this is a fever dream of me wishing to see a bad Arceus Type fall to OU just because of the typing alone, for funny reasons. Yeah I was serious when I wrote this but I'm just about to hit post and I realize now how nonsensical this is. But I spent like 4 hours on this so let me cook. Tera is a lie invented by the government to sell more jewellery.
:sv/arceus-bug:
What are your thoughts on Arceus-Bug in OU? It has great stats and a (potentially) great movepool but no ability, no item, is weak to hazards, status and has questionnable STAB.

Here's some calcs I did for those interested: no I changed my mind you are going to look at the calcs I spent way too much time on them

I made these calcs using Smogon OU sets for the OU mons, and the Calm Mind Uber set for Arceus-Bug (and added Judgement as a STAB option just in case)

To start off, let's start with how much power Arceus would pack at +1 against some of the most common OU walls. I added and removed stat boosts depending on the opponent's set.

+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Amoonguss: 248-294 (57.4 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Amoonguss: 124-147 (28.7 - 34%) -- 1.6% chance to 3HKO
+1 8 SpA Insect Plate Arceus-Bug Judgment vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Amoonguss: 247-292 (57.1 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
8 SpA Arceus-Bug Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Amoonguss: 166-196 (38.4 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
8 SpA Arceus-Bug Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Amoonguss: 83-98 (19.2 - 22.6%) -- possible 5HKO
8 SpA Insect Plate Arceus-Bug Judgment vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Amoonguss: 166-196 (38.4 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Unaware Clodsire: 112-132 (24.1 - 28.5%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Unaware Clodsire: 112-132 (24.1 - 28.5%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Corviknight: 130-153 (32.5 - 38.3%) -- 2.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Corviknight: 130-153 (32.5 - 38.3%) -- 98.6% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+1 8 SpA Insect Plate Arceus-Bug Judgment vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 390-462 (87.8 - 104%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
+1 8 SpA Insect Plate Arceus-Bug Judgment vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 260-308 (58.5 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
8 SpA Insect Plate Arceus-Bug Judgment vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 174-206 (39.1 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 246-290 (65 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 8 SpA Insect Plate Arceus-Bug Judgment vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Hatterene: 148-175 (46.5 - 55%) -- 13.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 8 SpA Insect Plate Arceus-Bug Judgment vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hatterene: 222-262 (69.8 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 8 SpA Insect Plate Arceus-Bug Judgment vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Hatterene: 222-262 (70 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 120+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar: 114-136 (28.9 - 34.5%) -- 4.7% chance to 3HKO
+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowking-Galar: 210-248 (53.2 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 144-170 (28 - 33%) -- 84.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 8 SpA Insect Plate Arceus-Bug Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 288-338 (56 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
8 SpA Arceus-Bug Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 96-114 (18.6 - 22.1%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
8 SpA Insect Plate Arceus-Bug Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 188-224 (36.5 - 43.5%) -- 99.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Toxapex: 112-134 (36.9 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Toxapex: 160-190 (52.6 - 62.5%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
8 SpA Arceus-Bug Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Toxapex: 108-128 (35.5 - 42.1%) -- 85.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Ice Beam/Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zamazenta: 102-120 (26.2 - 30.9%) -- 6.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery (both moves have the same values)
+1 8 SpA Arceus-Bug Ice Beam/Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zamazenta: 102-120 (31.3 - 36.9%) -- 77% chance to 3HKO (both moves have the same values)

Now let's make like Nietzsche and attempt to kill god with our own hands, this time with OU's special attackers. This includes a calc for their most relevant moves, one of which Arceus is at +1spdef and one after stealth rock switch-in, with a +1spdef only if arceus is faster and can get off a calm mind before the opponent moves.

252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 153-180 (34.5 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 228-268 (51.4 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Flamethrower vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 140-166 (31.6 - 37.4%) -- 86.5% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 210-248 (47.4 - 55.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+1 252 SpA Enamorus Mystical Fire vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 146-172 (32.9 - 38.8%) -- 99.1% chance to 3HKO
+1 252 SpA Enamorus Mystical Fire vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 146-172 (32.9 - 38.8%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
this is a calm mind enam, but choice specs are the same results

252+ SpA Life Orb Garchomp Fire Blast vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 143-169 (32.2 - 38.1%) -- 94.5% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Garchomp Fire Blast vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 143-169 (32.2 - 38.1%) -- 2.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 125-148 (28.2 - 33.4%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 125-148 (28.2 - 33.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 228-268 (51.4 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 228-268 (51.4 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 114-135 (25.7 - 30.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 114-135 (25.7 - 30.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 187-222 (42.2 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 187-222 (42.2 - 50.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 114-136 (25.7 - 30.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 169-200 (38.1 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 172-203 (38.8 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 253-300 (57.1 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 130-154 (29.3 - 34.7%) -- 7.9% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 195-231 (44 - 52.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 186-222 (41.9 - 50.1%) -- 89.5% chance to 2HKO after trapping damage
252 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 186-222 (41.9 - 50.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and trapping damage

132 SpA Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 146-174 (32.9 - 39.2%) -- 99.5% chance to 3HKO
132 SpA Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 218-258 (49.2 - 58.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 132 SpA Quark Drive Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 284-336 (64.1 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 132 SpA Quark Drive Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 284-336 (64.1 - 75.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Moth Overheat vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 384-452 (86.6 - 102%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Moth Overheat vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 384-452 (86.6 - 102%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
-2 252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Moth Overheat vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 192-228 (43.3 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+1 252 SpA Quark Drive Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 163-193 (36.7 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252 SpA Quark Drive Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 163-193 (36.7 - 43.5%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Quark Drive Iron Valiant Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 137-162 (30.9 - 36.5%) -- 65.6% chance to 3HKO
+1 252 SpA Quark Drive Iron Valiant Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 137-162 (30.9 - 36.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 84-100 (18.9 - 22.5%) -- possible 5HKO
252 SpA Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 127-150 (28.6 - 33.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 126-148 (28.4 - 33.4%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 126-148 (28.4 - 33.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Valiant Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 106-125 (23.9 - 28.2%) -- 94.4% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Valiant Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 106-125 (23.9 - 28.2%) -- 90.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

208 SpA Sandy Shocks Thunderbolt vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 78-93 (17.6 - 20.9%) -- possible 5HKO
208 SpA Sandy Shocks Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 117-138 (26.4 - 31.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

ok there are a lot of calcs here, but this should cover if you have specs, booster energy, if you are in sun, etc. I ADHD pretty hard on this one. You're welcome, Wacky Wink fans.
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Draco Meteor vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 177-208 (39.9 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Draco Meteor vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 177-208 (39.9 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 262-310 (59.1 - 69.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Flamethrower vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 162-192 (36.5 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Flamethrower vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 162-192 (36.5 - 43.3%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug in Sun: 366-432 (82.6 - 97.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug in Sun: 366-432 (82.6 - 97.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Walking Wake Flamethrower vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 156-184 (35.2 - 41.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Walking Wake Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug: 234-276 (52.8 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Walking Wake Flamethrower vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug in Sun: 234-276 (52.8 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Walking Wake Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug in Sun: 350-414 (79 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug in Sun: 121-144 (27.3 - 32.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug in Sun: 180-213 (40.6 - 48%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug in Sun: 156-184 (35.2 - 41.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Bug in Sun: 156-184 (35.2 - 41.5%) -- 70.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

What about physical attackers? i'm getting tired so let's just physical attackers that threaten buggy boy, with only their strongest or threatening moves.

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 229-271 (51.6 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (&after Stealth Rock)
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 610-718 (137.6 - 162%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Choice Band Baxcalibur Glaive Rush vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 271-321 (61.1 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (&after Stealth Rock)
+1 252 Atk Baxcalibur Glaive Rush vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 271-321 (61.1 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (&after Stealth Rock)
+2 252 Atk Baxcalibur Glaive Rush vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 364-429 (82.1 - 96.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)

252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 308-366 (69.5 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
32 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 258-306 (58.2 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (&after Stealth Rock)

252 Atk Choice Band Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 200-236 (45.1 - 53.2%) -- approx. 25.8% chance to 2HKO (also says "approx. 2HKO after Stealth Rock"; like, without a percentage or anything. Is this bugged?)

252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Outrage vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 282-333 (63.6 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Fire Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 236-278 (53.2 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (& after Stealth Rock) [this is a +1 calc and is also true for choice band]

252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 3 allies fainted Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 175-207 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Landorus-Therian Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 204-240 (46 - 54.1%) -- 48.4% chance to 2HKO (guaranteed after Stealth Rock)
252 Atk Tera Flying Landorus-Therian Tera Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 324-384 (73.1 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)

252 Atk Choice Band Sneasler Dire Claw vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 168-198 (37.9 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (3HKO without it)

252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Normal Lechonk Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Bug: 194-230 (43.7 - 51.9%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO

Okay that's it for the calcs say thank you to the adhd everyone! thank you!!!!!!

It's easy to see those calcs and see that Arceus-Bug makes big damage, but dont forget he takes big damage too!!!! Unable to put on boots because he needs to hold his bug certificate, Arceus-Bug is very weak to hazards, especially rocks and Tspikes. His only method of recovery is limited to 8 Recovers and he has no way to remove status. A lot of OU mons put Arceus-Bug in the "Uh-Oh" range and chances are he might start spamming his recovers like a nerd with an inhaler on his first date.
Overall, this puts Bug Boy as a fragile stallbreaker imo, and I don't know what else to say except these numbers mean nothing to me, I play low ladder, I am very tired and I want to see the OU tier squish Arceus-Bug or die trying.
But hey! Maybe I'm overlooking some things! Maybe Arceus has better moves, threatens more mons than I thought of, is threatened more by some mons than I thought, has much more weaknesses, or maybe he's literally the god of the pokémon world and I forgot all about that part.
whaddaya think.
suspect or sus post.
ok bye I don't know how to end a post so
Click to expand...
are we really doing this again

I guess I'll put my thoughts here so this isnt a shitty one liner.

Volc is probably a 3-4 as with its bulk and Flame Body it actually has potential defensive utility to offer the tier. Tera does let it get out of hand quickly, and I could still see it being suspected/QBed again if it gets released, but it's possible that it will be even more limited in what Teras it runs/how much progress it can reasonably make with them. Urshifu I honestly didn't have problems with when it was around, but I'll fully admit it was because I was usually running the few things that could reasonably check it during that era of the meta. So I'll go off of what the others said and say it's a 1-2.

Palafin and Zama-C are straightforwardly broken.
 
BijouMode said:
Remember first of all, Arceus can just tera out of its bad typing and, second of all, it would still be broken anyway, and third of all, it might just not use STAB Judgement and use BoltBeam coverage or BoltEP coverage.
Click to expand...

On top of that, Bug isn't even that bad of a defensive typing! It's certainly not great, but the real reason we don't see that many bugs in OU is that pretty much every bug is saddled with a horrible typing, absolutely unsalvageable stats.. or, most frequently, both.

If we actually got 530-540 BST bug types with usable stat lines, Earthquake would actually have a second type it's not completely free to click against.
 
Again, Deo-D is probably the only "consistent uber" worth testing if it returns, and even then it's not like wed need more ridiculous spikers in this current meta. Even the shittiest Arceus forms still have 120 overall stats, and they all have very versatile movepools. This includes Arc-Ice and Arc-Psychic, both of which are worse than Arc-Bug.
 
In the event of Tera Ban (which hopefully never happens), I wouldn,t be opposed to retest Arceus Bug. With Tera however, it can always change type, so its a hard no.

Zamazenta Crowned is the only Uber out of the proposed ones I would give a chance. Volcarona, Watershifu and especially Palafin are all way too much for OU, we don,t need more hard to check threats, we need less.
 
artificialdeath said:
Again, Deo-D is probably the only "consistent uber" worth testing if it returns, and even then it's not like wed need more ridiculous spikers in this current meta. Even the shittiest Arceus forms still have 120 overall stats, and they all have very versatile movepools. This includes Arc-Ice and Arc-Psychic, both of which are worse than Arc-Bug.
Click to expand...
Deo-D is hardly going to be ridiculous now. At best, it will be a slightly powercrept Mew since it retains Recover, but even then, Mew was balanced in OU last generation even with recovery (barring those evil demon sets) so I'm sure Deo-D will be fine. A Psychic-type will have a tough time in Gambit, Gholdengo, and Samurott-H's turf, esp since other mons do its job better like Ting-Lu. Maybe a decently fast Taunt + Recover will give it a niche, but I don't think it will be broken or even OU this gen.

Calc's showing its bulk compared to Mew:
252+ Atk Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Deoxys-Defense: 162-192 (53.2 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 228-270 (56.4 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
I was actually thinking about Deo-D coming back recently and it should be fine to if it's added. Mew is almost objectively better now (faster, stronger, similar bulk, vaster movepool with things like Explosion) but isn't making the splash Deo-D used to. The lack of good hazard removal and H-Sam are probably dulling its influence but eh.
 
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Magcargo said:
Deo-D is hardly going to be ridiculous now. At best, it will be a slightly powercrept Mew since it retains Recover, but even then, Mew was balanced in OU last generation even with recovery (barring those evil demon sets) so I'm sure Deo-D will be fine. A Psychic-type will have a tough time in Gambit, Gholdengo, and Samurott-H's turf, esp since other mons do its job better like Ting-Lu. Maybe a decently fast Taunt + Recover will give it a niche, but I don't think it will be broken or even OU this gen.

Calc's showing its bulk compared to Mew:
252+ Atk Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Deoxys-Defense: 162-192 (53.2 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 228-270 (56.4 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Click to expand...
Remember that compared to Gen 8 Mew it learns Spikes and can Tera, while compared to Gen 9 Mew it retains Recover, Knock Off, Cosmic Power, Teleport, Toxic Spikes, Counter and Mirror Coat
 
ZannaBianca said:
Remember that compared to Gen 8 Mew it learns Spikes and can Tera, while compared to Gen 9 Mew it retains Recover, Knock Off, Cosmic Power, Teleport, Toxic Spikes, Counter and Mirror Coat
Click to expand...

Gen 8 Mew also learned Spikes. Also, except for Recover and Cosmic Power, we can,t be sure what moves Deo-D will retain, since its unreleased.

The Mon is probably not broken, but I do think it will make the meta worse and more hazards centered than it already is. We don,t need Deoxys in this Meta, hopefully its never released.
 
Eeveeto said:
Gen 8 Mew also learned Spikes. Also, except for Recover and Cosmic Power, we can,t be sure what moves Deo-D will retain, since its unreleased.

The Mon is probably not broken, but I do think it will make the meta worse and more hazards centered than it already is. We don,t need Deoxys in this Meta, hopefully its never released.
Click to expand...
I'll take the L on the Spikes part. Also forgive my ignorance, but shouldn't Deoxys be able to keep all the moves it learns by level up?
 
Magcargo said:
Deo-D is hardly going to be ridiculous now. At best, it will be a slightly powercrept Mew since it retains Recover, but even then, Mew was balanced in OU last generation even with recovery (barring those evil demon sets) so I'm sure Deo-D will be fine. A Psychic-type will have a tough time in Gambit, Gholdengo, and Samurott-H's turf, esp since other mons do its job better like Ting-Lu. Maybe a decently fast Taunt + Recover will give it a niche, but I don't think it will be broken or even OU this gen
Click to expand...

You're severely undervaluing how important that recovery is. It's also pretty easy for it to pick hazards to throw up, deny the opponent's, and generate a lot of momentum early. Especially as it would deny the best remover in the tier the opportunity to come in and spin.

By the way, saying Mew was balanced last gen doesn't mean anything. That's a whole separate meta with different circumstances. We're mega short on removal and the last thing we'd want is another dumb super consistent hazard stacker.
 
:volcarona: 4, might stay Ubers anyway but the way it was banned has obviously soured a lot of people and so probably should have a retest
:urshifu: 3, more broken than Volc, doubt it would come down but I think it needed a suspect
:zamazenta-crowned: 2, we are not bringing back 130 atk with 145/145 defenses lmao, it was unbreakable and able to sweep with ID+BP
:palafin-hero: 1, lol
 
Any Arceus form is going to be far too difficult to handle in OU. Its bulk is one thing, but this gen especially, Arceus having access to Tera and Taunt as well as several set up options mean that it'll always be in Ubers.

On the flip side, I thought outside of the box and found our savior who will save us from Kingambit and Baxcalibur:

wFHGAf4o3KgHwAAAABJRU5ErkJggg.png


Only 1 week until DLC comes out, so let's have fun and not get too carried away. As ausma previously said, theorymonning is fine, but if you wish to discuss leaks or potential leaks, then visit this thread in the Orange Islands forum. If you're looking for something to discuss then here's some ideas:

1. What new mons are you looking forward to seeing the most?
2. What new mons are you not looking forward to seeing?
3. How do you feel about the current survey and if you would like to share your response, then how do you feel about those Ubers returning to OU?
4. Are there any other Ubers you believe could have a chance at returning to OU that were not listed in the survey?
5. Are there any mons currently in OU that you believe will get even stronger with DLC?
6. Are there any mons currently in OU that you believe will get weaker or less viable with DLC?
7. Today is September 7th, so I'm ending this on question #7 and will ask, are you are having a nice day?

Either way, I hope you all have a wonderful rest of the day and cheers to making it this far in Gen 9.
 
Why is Palafin under survey?

Not only are the other 3 the only ones among the 12 banned worth discussing, but of the other 9, you chose the second most powerful Pokémon in Gen 9.

Not only is Taunt BU horribly difficult to deal with, without Zapdos, but this guy can run other sets like Choice Band Wave Crash, or even Tera Normal Boomburst to surprise (yes, this thing has Boomburst, and with 106 spAtt).
 
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`ShadowTwo said:
Why is Palafin under investigation?

Not only are the other 3 the only ones among the 12 banned worth discussing, but of the other 9, you chose the second most powerful Pokémon in Gen 9.

Not only is Taunt BU horribly difficult to deal with, without Zapdos, but this guy can run other sets like Choice Band Wave Crash, or even Tera Normal Boomburst to surprise (yes, this thing has Boomburst, and with 106 spAtt).
Click to expand...
252+ Atk Choice Band Palafin-Hero Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Tera Water Clefable: 191-225 (48.4 - 57.1%) -- 45.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Palafin-Hero Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Tera Water Clefable: 255-301 (64.7 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

I don't think there is much to add
 
As some others touched on, Palafin just being in the survey means incredibly little. We included anything that generated serious discussion, even if only one or two people supported it being in the survey (and this doesn’t even necessarily mean they support it being OU).

Obviously any discussion can be useful and parlayed into future tiering progress, but I wouldn’t go signaling the emergency Palafin defense squad necessarily.
 
Putting my take here, i think everything (that is within reason and has been dropped to ou before) should be dropped to OU, it's the most fair way to gauge how the meta will be, and with how bans are handled now, this wont be that big of a disruption to the meta, the first one to two days can be spend to ban the super brokens, then we can take a week to ban the brokens, and then continue on to suspect test the potentially brokens.
 
Mimikyu Stardust said:
Putting my take here, i think everything (that is within reason and has been dropped to ou before) should be dropped to OU, it's the most fair way to gauge how the meta will be, and with how bans are handled now, this wont be that big of a disruption to the meta, the first one to two days can be spend to ban the super brokens, then we can take a week to ban the brokens, and then continue on to suspect test the potentially brokens.
Click to expand...
What would this list of mons to be dropped realistically look like?
 
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