Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]

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Hey everyone, I wanted to take this opportunity to share my preliminary thoughts on the HOME metagame after having played a few dozen games. Please take these opinions with a grain of salt as we are not even a day into the metagame, but I feel I've played enough at this rate to have a decent read on what is/will ultimately be good in the tier.

For visiblity's sake, here is a tier list I put together. I will be explaining my choices up to A-tier, but I will happily explain my lower-tier choices if inquired.

View attachment 520740

Quickban:
Nuke these fools.
:ursaluna:
Ursaluna is absurd. While its Speed tier is very debilitating outside of Trick Room, it is one of the highest immediate power threats the tier has ever seen with a STAB combo and coverage that is unreasonably good at breaking holes into teams with little prediction required from the Ursaluna user. There has been extremely high Air Balloon Gholdengo use on the ladder to try and dissuade its STAB combination, but its access to moves like Fire Punch to remedy this and Substitute to remove prediction makes it very difficult to respond to without using dedicated counterplay, expending your Tera, or predicting right. It's worth noting that all of these are major investments and often wind up with your team put into a very unideal position before one of the tier's many great cleaners can pick up the slack. It alone makes Trick Room a highly viable strategy, but even without it, its bulk and solid use of Tera means it often can take 2-3 Pokemon with it before it's taken down. While the metagame can most definitely adapt to its presence, it is beyond centralizing and I believe the tier would be better off without it as it doesn't really bring much of value anyway.

:regieleki:
It's been profusely said how powerful Regieleki is with Tera, and I am here to echo that sentiment. Tera completely downplays its one key weakness and makes it so Regieleki is able to utterly wreck every and all team structures that don't use specific Ground-types. It alone has forced obscene Iron Treads usage on the ladder, and even it can't withstand Tera Blast for long. I've been using it on a Rain team, too, and it can even use Tera Water to break apart Iron Treads with no issue, and even some other niche answers like Tera Steel Thundurus-T. Much like Ursaluna, it certainly can be adapted to, but it demands far too much from the player in the builder and it has no place in the tier.

:zamazenta-crowned:
Honestly, I'm not really too big a fan of its presence in this metagame, not gonna lie! Body Press is just way too good an addition on Zamazenta-Crowned; it's very easy for Zamazenta to begin boosting Body Press with its amazing bulk, type, and Speed, and its other slots can easily be dedicated to blasting the tier's best Body Press checks in Gholdengo, Galarian Slowking, and Enamorus through STAB Behemoth Bash and Crunch alone, and it can use its bulk to win those 1v1s. You have to try and burn or paralyze it, but most bulky status users in this metagame (Skeledirge and Volcarona) aren't exactly ones you want to throw on every team, and in some cases aren't even good enough as they don't actually respond to Body Press (Rotom-W). While this is the one I'm most borderline about as it's not as overtly broken to me as Regieleki and Ursaluna, it too contributes to a potential centralization problem since Iron Defense Body Press checks are fairly specific.

On My Radar:
This tier is for Pokemon that are on my personal radar, but am unsure about booting from the tier out the rip.

:sneasler:
Actually a really cool and powerful Pokemon with very interesting progress-making tools with access to Poison Touch + U-turn and nice utility in general, and is a presence I would actively enjoy having in the tier if it weren't for Dire Claw. Dire Claw is a really stupid move and a super easy click for the most part due to that obscene and common secondary effect. Close Combat is a great partner in crime into Dire Claw immunities, and it has U-turn as well for other checks in Gholdengo, for instance, so Dire Claw's secondary effect comes into play very often. Being able to fish for Sleep or Para odds is, bluntly, a really unwelcome mechanic imo, and can steal games undeservedly as many people have said before. It's a shame too as, since Dire Claw is only on Sneasler, we have to look at Sneasler as opposed to Dire Claw itself. Sneasler as a whole would sit solidly in high A/low S, but with the uncompetitive and often game-changing elements behind Dire Claw it most likely--and sadly--needs to be evaluated for a potential ban.

:magearna:
Much like I mentioned in my earlier post, Magearna's healthy elements heavily in contention with its potentially broken ones. CM Tera Water sets are really hard to stop and, since it trades for very hard-to-exploit weaknesses in tandem with Calm Mind boosting, it can farm games easily with Screens support and proper positioning. Their great customizability between Iron Defense and Shift Gear and, of course, Magearna's amazing coverage options, sadly augments this issue. However, Magearna's other sets to me have been honestly not that bad. Specs is blanked pretty badly by the near omni-present Galarian Slowking and Iron Treads usage, making it somewhat prediction reliant, and with Trick you're not really getting as much value as you'd like as Magearna values its moveslots more than ever in this metagame. AV and Utility-focused sets are great but far from broken; if anything I highly welcome them in such a volatile metagame state. However it's the Calm Mind sets that really complicate things and I'm still mulling over if those sets are manageable enough, as well as if its set variety alongside the potential brokenness of CM is banworthy in and of itself. It's for that reason I don't believe it should be quickbanned at this time; however, Magearna is still on my radar.

:chien-pao:
Chien-Pao in this metagame is the embodiment of broken checking broken, essentially giving every offensive team a Get Out Of Jail card into Regieleki with its great STABs and Speed tier. Compared to Zamazenta-H it does this in a considerably less balanced sense, but it does certainly still have its checks. It hates Urshifu-R's potency in this metagame, and the existence of Magearna/Hisuian Samurott are pretty annoying for it too. I've been able to beat it pretty handily but it's one of those Pokemon whose brokenness tends to show as we trend toward stability. I expect it to probably kick the bucket down the line, but I'm not so sure right now.

S-tier Contenders

:slowking-galar:
If you've played at all on the OU ladder today I guarantee you've seen at least one. This Pokemon is in contention for the best Pokemon in the tier; everything about it feels so handcrafted to glue the metagame together, especially as it received a pivoting option to really live up to its predecessors. Chilly Reception expands Galarian Slowking's team applications beyond belief, giving it a home on VoltTurn structures and the highly viable Trick Room archetype. It also received Toxic Spikes and Toxic to reinforce teams into dangerous setup sweepers like Magearna, giving it more utility on bulkier structures. Its AV set is still phenomenal, and I'm sure setup variants will come to rise once the metagame becomes stable. Right now it is capable of doing so much and providing a stopgap into many of the tier's most dangerous Pokemon while providing constant pressure and support for its team. Galarian Slowking is insane.

:zapdos:
Regieleki has put Zapdos on the backfoot a bit, but it provides the tier with the all-purpose Flying-type that it has been craving since SV launched. Its type combination matches up great into Zamazenta, Landorus-T, and Great Tusk, and its bulk is just solid enough alongside Static to pull its weight as a glue into other relevant Physical attackers like Kingambit, Sneasler, and Urshifu-R. While losing Defog sucks quite a bit, Hurricane and Heat Wave uninvested generally gets the job done, giving teams a nice blend of offense, momentum, and utility akin to Galarian Slowking. I expect it to surge in use once/if Regieleki leaves the tier. Maybe S-tier overrates it a bit, but I've been using it on nearly all of my teams, and I'm sure it will settle into a very nice niche for bulky offense and balance.

:zamazenta:
I honestly think Zamazenta-H is a nice presence in the tier; a very powerful and influential one, for sure, but one I personally welcome a lot. It provides a very balanced yet potent tool for offensive structures. It boasts a great click in Close Combat, a very good Speed tier, nice bulk, and potent coverage options, making it a fantastic Choice Band user and great revenge killer that doesn't demand too many resources to shine. There are a lot of good and easily available checks in the aforementioned Galarian Slowking and Zapdos, as well as Pokemon like Landorus-T, Volcarona, Skeledirge, Great Tusk, and Enamorus. As for its Body Press set, I don't actually think it's that demanding as, unlike Zamazenta-C, it lacks a good secondary STAB to shore up its matchup into common Body Press resistances and it's also not Toxic-immune. I like it a lot, honestly. It has solid winning power that rewards smart positioning and progress-making, its Speed tier is a great asset, and its bulk is useful but not unbearable.

A-tier Contenders

:heatran:
Heatran does Heatran things, what is there to say? It's a great Special tank with an always-useful and powerful click in Magma Storm, and its access to Taunt is always a nice way to expedite its utility. Although it lost Toxic (and that sucks a lot, don't get me wrong), it gained Tera Blast and Tera as a whole in exchange, which can allow for it to specialize its trapping game a lot more. I admit I'm somewhat worried about this as the metagame stabilizes, but in such a fast and offensive metagame it's quite hard for Heatran to find that theoretical value. I mostly just see and have experienced a bulky and powerful tank with nice resistances, and that's going to be good no matter what.

:samurott-hisui:
SAMUROTT IS GOOD GUYS!!!!!!! HE'S GOOD!!! HE FINALLY DID IT!!!!!!!! In all seriousness, Hisuian Samurott is awesome. Ceaseless Edge is stupid spammable and supports the everliving crap out of faster cleaners in Sneasler/Zamazenta. Alongside the fact Ceaseless Edge is so useful, its type offers a lot both offensively and defensively, and as such it has honestly a lot of set versatility. I've found a lot of success with RestTalk and it's a set I implore you try as it gives you that familiar Ceaseless Edge value while reaping the rewards of its great resistances, but Choice Scarf, AV, SD + Black Glasses with Sucker Punch are all really solid performers as well. It's definitely more of an offense fixture by nature, but I think Hisuian Samurott will settle into a very comfortable spot in this metagame just because Sharpness-boosted Ceaseless Edge and its typing are so unique and powerful. Its Speed, only-serviceable bulk, and Sharpness-reliant offenses really show at times, though, so I don't expect it to ever be topping the charts. However you can bet that it will do its job, and you best believe that job is really, really useful.

:enamorus:
Enamorus is pretty strong, and I think as the metagame slows down it will probably become more and more potent, but as it stands it's a powerful wallbreaker and bruiser thanks to its powerful Moonblast and perfect neutral coverage. Taunt + 3 Attacks puts in a lot of work and can be a nice fat-buster while trading nicely into offense, and I've liked Specs too. However Calm Mind and Superpower offer decent win-conditions at the cost of requiring more awareness in positioning. I think 4MSS, its desire for HDB, and its Speed tier let it down just a bit but there's a lot it can do and I believe it will settle into a very cozy spot in the metagame, even with Galarian Slowking at the top.

:moltres-galar:
Galarian Moltres benefits really hard from the fast metagame state and farms offense, especially since it's so good at using Tera and bops most structures that don't run Kingambit, Magearna, or Tyranitar. If you run into the latter two you're in for a bit of a bad time, but barring that it's a pretty damn reliable win condition that can flexibly wallbreak and clean on a whim.

:braviary-hisui:
People are sleeping hard on this gigathreat. You may think its type may be its main weakness in this metagame, but you would be wrong as it matches up really well into non-Toxic Galarian Slowking, non-Choice Band Urshifu, and Amoonguss. Even with the Psychic-type, being a Flying-type in this metagame is extremely useful due to the widespread Fighting-type spam, and because of that, it's able to put in a comical amount of work as an Esper Wing-boosted win condition and wallbreaker. There is literally no switch-in to this Pokemon and it doesn't have to wear a Choice Specs to dish out the hurt due to Tinted Lens. It can easily just click Esper Wing and Hurricane and easily force trades, and if you're running fat, Calm Mind + Roost with its bulk farms arguably even easier, and Tera expedites this even easier. Its Speed is the main thing that lets it down, so you usually want several Esper Wing boosts before it's too late to stop you, but the sheer strength of Esper Wing and its guaranteed Speed boost alongside STAB-boosted Tinted Lens Hurricane near always force a KO, and its resistance profile/bulk often means you can do that at least once per game. Maybe A is reactionary, but I've found really consistent success with it. You certainly do have to support it and it's more Tera reliant than other Pokemon, but I think this Pokemon is a sleeper threat and it should be respected more.

:urshifu-rapid-strike:
This Pokemon cusps on the top end of A for me. It's a strong offensive pivot and newfound access to SD and Trailblaze make it a potentially ruinous win condition. Its resistances are also really nice, being able to provide reinforcement into Heatran, Hisuian Samurott, and Chien-Pao. People have already discussed most of its merits, but I've found that Punching Glove pivot sets are really easy to slot onto teams. Tera Water with Punching Glove closely simulates Choice Band-boosted Surging Strikes, minus the choice lock and the fear of recoil, which makes it a very autonomous threat that can take hits and dish them out. It's just a great Pokemon, and maybe could be banworthy in the later stages of the metagame, but I've really liked having it so far.

:landorus-therian:
Landorus-Therian's resistance profile and access to U-turn are its primary draws in this metagame, making it one of Sneasler's better checks and a decent all-around pivot into Heatran, Zamazenta, Kingambit, and Great Tusk. Losing Knock Off, Defog, and Toxic are honestly extremely bad for it and it shows, as it often winds up being setup fodder for Dragonite, Zamazenta, and Tera Water Magearna. Gaining Taunt is a bit of a consolation prize and it does like having it, though you definitely want Speed to get the most use out of Taunt, which hurts its bulk a bit as well. Still, though, it's a Landorus-T and it'll do what you need it to do, it's just not as phenomenal as it once was, making it comfortably A in my eyes.
tjanks for a great post

I think sneasler is definitely a Pokémon that needs time for the metagame to adjust

there’s likely to be so many viable poisons, including the glowking you brought up!
 
When Arboliva takes the hit and immediately swaps, isn't that the same turn spent as if using Volt Switch/Chilly Reception?

1st turn: Trick
2nd Turn: Swap (VS/CR/Eject Pack Arboliva)
3 Turn: Rawr
I was tired and confused. My apologies for the wrong call-out.
 
No need, always good to have a reason to double check!

The strat is also more prediction reliant, as if they don't strike you then and there, nothing happens. Except they let Arboliva in for free, a mon with 125 Sp.Atk, 39 speed, and a decent movepool
 

MANNAT

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:ursaluna:
People need to stop overrating the this thing so hard. It has a slew of flaws that limit it and make it far from broken. It’s being touted as the best trick room abuser ever but has anti-synergy with Lunar Dance. Also, both of Ursaluna’s STABs have to contend with immunities, increasing how prediction reliant it is. Because of these factors, it can waste vital trick room turns and get easily forced out while making less progress than you want in those limited turns.

Outside of Trick Room, its reduced longevity affects how it plays a lot due to how easy it is to get out of range to trade with big threats. Ursaluna commonly ends up trading 1 for 1 with a big threat at some point, taking enough damage in the process that it’s not really doing anything for the rest of the game due to its useless speed tier. Ursaluna is going to rip through bulkier teams, but there’s an array of Pokemon that fit that descriptor in the metagame right now.

Ursaluna is the best Guts abuser we’ve ever seen due to its obscene bulk and power, useful defensive typing, and resistance to rocks (!!!). However, it has a lot of limitations that make it less problematic than other top threats like Regieleki, Magearna, Zamazenta, Chien-Pao, and Urshifu. Please relax on all the discussion about quickbanning this thing and focus on the real demons we got lurking…
 
hey so wanted to drop a team as well as my thoughts on the current day 1 sv ou metagame, i started playing the ladd a lot today and managed to peak number one with a team (70to90gxe), as well as get the highest gxe on ladder (big foonguz)
Screenshot (290).png

i feel fine sharing this team because half the mons will be gone in a few days anyways (urshi, zama, leki)
https://pokepast.es/e945c798580e29d4

alt version with clod (pretty good in current meta+tera blast urshi https://pokepast.es/8dcc01c3b29ef437)
general metagame thoughts

THE BROKENS
if you asked me, this would be the clear number two in the metagame right now behind magearna. I dont think counterplay that people think works for this mon works at all, i think the max speed set has been underwhelming mostly because of body presses power, but honestly you do not need max speed because this thing eats every hit ever. supposed checks like galar king, zapdos, gholdengo, among others genuinely lose the 1v1 because of how tanky and strong this mon is, you simply arent dealing enough damage back. you can run whatever coverage move you want last (crunch, heavy slam, edge, even dig), and its probably going to be good, never mind its rest talk set which also will never die. loved using it, really did not feel like this was a balanced mon in the slightest though.
This mon would be fine if it didnt get draining kiss. But it does, and that immediately makes in banworthy. Honestly specs itself might be playableish? this gen (probably not), but this thing has like 20 viable sets. [shift gear, cm, stored kiss] [cm, dkiss, iron defense, stored],[shift gear+a million different coverage moves]. you cant really outdamage the healing on mage, you cant really outboost it because of stored, and now tera makes it even worse. pls ban

the fact that a lot of games are going to come down to whose leki wins the tie says a lot. its amazing, and takes momentum like no other mon. youre forced into weird mindgames and inevitably you sack your ground type to it anyways. i started running electro ball>tbolt paired with volt and it takes stuff like gking and mag for a million. there's simply too few ways to rk this thing, and punish it for perpetually switching in and out. dont think its overly healthy

I think this thing is still broken. It doesnt have checks, and realistically all its doing is keeping other broken pokemon in check with it. maybe not as pressing as the above three but it really does just hit too hard, and it is too fast to reliably rk

Not sure if this will be a hot take but this thing just feels way too good right now. One of its biggest boosters is surprisingly punching glove imo, with the 1.1 power on surging strikes really being felt. Now that it has sd you can never check this mon with stuff like corv, and its few good checks like defensive haze pex can still be picked off using a move like thunder punch or tera blast if you wanted to forego aqua jet. Game to game it really felt like people could not reliably check this mon, and its defensive typing also makes it relatively hard to kill back. dont think itll stay long term but we'll see

The Really Good/Cool (going to summarize these more quickly)

couldnt find ursalunas normal sprite so here's its april fool's day. this thing is really tanky, and really really strong. There's a good chance its broken, but i have yet to see this thing be broken outside of tr so not yet sold on a ban. it has amazing coverage, i think it generally runs into the problem of needing backup ground types or at least electric resitances and can make it weird to build with. it has good tera options like normal or ghost, and is just obviously super strong

after seeing this things impact in natdex i truly do believe long run it may not be healthy for the metagame. however, have not seen enough from it yet, and no one was good enough to click ice fang into lando so for today i didnt really care ab it :4

defensive lando is amazing right now. Its lando, its always good. losing knock off sort of sucks but really it just eqs and uturns like it always did, with a new tool in the special version of eq with the added benefit of scald (but it also misses so dont use it). i still see it as a core part of the meta

absolutely amazing pokemon, all it wanted last gen was teleport and it basically got that in chilly reception. absolute pain to play against and kill, top tier metagame glue

no idea where this ends up (probably ou or very high UU), but ceaseless edge is incredibly spammable and this mon is definitely stronger than i thought itd be, obviously suffers a bit to mons like urshifu who are so common but it has tools around that too if you really wanted
sneasler is cool. unburden might eventually be used on HO but for right now scarf/band are probably best. dire claw and poison touch means this thing will get some sort of hax, also base 135 attack. should be ou and its strong. not sure if dire claw is competitive, though

dont sleep on this thing without last respects. whether you want it to be a breaker with adaptability or run it under rain (surprisingly good archetype rn), it hits really really hard and should find a decent place in the ou/uu meta
the fast version of this thing (enamorus) seems pretty good, in the current meta its only ok but going forward i do thing this thing has a nice role in the ou meta
sleeper pick now that it has tera blast. meta is too good for it at the moment because of mons like zama and mage but i really do thing the upside it has is pretty high (its not hard to get multiple dragon dances, especially with tera)



heatran/zapdos/hoopa u all do similar stuff to previous gens and seem really good at them (maybe hoopa deserves a bigger shout but havent seen too much from it yet)


obv day 1 impressions so take it with a grain of salt. this meta is fun but it's going to change very soon
 
Last edited:
As much as I hated lando T previously, I feel bad for it. I wanted to see something like tusk come along and beat it on merit, but being nerfed so heavily it's not a fair fight. It would've been a glorious battle
I'd say that lando still competes with Tusk just based on the matches I've had today. Losing defog/knock sucks, but flying typing, Intimidate effectively increasing its bulk, and being able to pivot seamlessly with U-Turn cannot be taken for granted. HOME has also introduced a few more viable switchins to Gambit and other dark types so tusk is slightly less vital in that role than it was before
 
Couldn’t dire claw be feasibly banned due to being luck based/uncompetitive instead of it being broken? The chance to cripple any opposing Pokémon besides the two with immunity to all statuses is obscene, and I don’t feel like this is something that is just “nerfing a Pokémon to keep it OU”, this move is so busted that even Ubers would have a hard time dealing with it.
 

Exotic64

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hey so wanted to drop a team as well as my thoughts on the current day 1 sv ou metagame, i started playing the ladd a lot today and managed to peak number one with a team (70to90gxe), as well as get the highest gxe on ladder (big foonguz)
View attachment 521215
i feel fine sharing this team because half the mons will be gone in a few days anyways (urshi, zama, leki)
https://pokepast.es/e945c798580e29d4


general metagame thoughts

THE BROKENS
if you asked me, this would be the clear number two in the metagame right now behind magearna. I dont think counterplay that people think works for this mon works at all, i think the max speed set has been underwhelming mostly because of body presses power, but honestly you do not need max speed because this thing eats every hit ever. supposed checks like galar king, zapdos, gholdengo, among others genuinely lose the 1v1 because of how tanky and strong this mon is, you simply arent dealing enough damage back. you can run whatever coverage move you want last (crunch, heavy slam, edge, even dig), and its probably going to be good, never mind its rest talk set which also will never die. loved using it, really did not feel like this was a balanced mon in the slightest though.
This mon would be fine if it didnt get draining kiss. But it does, and that immediately makes in banworthy. Honestly specs itself might be playableish? this gen (probably not), but this thing has like 20 viable sets. [shift gear, cm, stored kiss] [cm, dkiss, iron defense, stored],[shift gear+a million different coverage moves]. you cant really outdamage the healing on mage, you cant really outboost it because of stored, and now tera makes it even worse. pls ban

the fact that a lot of games are going to come down to whose leki wins the tie says a lot. its amazing, and takes momentum like no other mon. youre forced into weird mindgames and inevitably you sack your ground type to it anyways. i started running electro ball>tbolt paired with volt and it takes stuff like gking and mag for a million. there's simply too few ways to rk this thing, and punish it for perpetually switching in and out. dont think its overly healthy

I think this thing is still broken. It doesnt have checks, and realistically all its doing is keeping other broken pokemon in check with it. maybe not as pressing as the above three but it really does just hit too hard, and it is too fast to reliably rk

Not sure if this will be a hot take but this thing just feels way too good right now. One of its biggest boosters is surprisingly punching glove imo, with the 1.1 power on surging strikes really being felt. Now that it has sd you can never check this mon with stuff like corv, and its few good checks like defensive haze pex can still be picked off using a move like thunder punch or tera blast if you wanted to forego aqua jet. Game to game it really felt like people could not reliably check this mon, and its defensive typing also makes it relatively hard to kill back. dont think itll stay long term but we'll see

The Really Good/Cool (going to summarize these more quickly)

couldnt find ursalunas normal sprite so heres its april fool's day. this thing is really tanky, and really really strong. There's a good chance its broken, but i have yet to see this thing be broken outside of tr so not yet sold on a ban. it has amazing coverage, i think it generally runs into the problem of needing backup ground types or at least electric resitances and can make it weird to build with. it has good tera options like normal or ghost, and is just obviously super strong

after seeing this things impact in natdex i truly do believe long run it may not be healthy for the metagame. however, have not seen enough from it yet, and no one was good enough to click ice fang into lando so for today i didnt really care ab it :4

defensive lando is amazing right now. Its lando, its always good. losing knock off sort of sucks but really it just eqs and uturns like it always did, with a new tool in the special version of eq with the added benefit of scald (but it also misses so dont use it). i still see it as a core part of the meta

absolutely amazing pokemon, all it wanted last gen was teleport and it basically got that in chilly reception. absolute pain to play against and kill, top tier metagame glue

no idea where this ends up (probably ou or very high UU), but ceaseless edge is incredibly spammable and this mon is definitely stronger than i thought itd be, obviously suffers a bit to mons like urshifu who are so common but it has tools around that too if you really wanted
sneasler is cool. unburden might eventually be used on HO but for right now scarf/band are probably best. dire claw and poison touch means this thing will get some sort of hax, also base 135 attack. should be ou or uu but its strong

dont sleep on this thing without last respects. whether you want it to be a breaker with adaptability or run it under rain (surprisingly good archetype rn), it hits really really hard and should find a decent place in the ou/uu meta
the fast version of this thing (enamorus) seems pretty good, in the current meta its only ok but going forward i do thing this thing has a nice role in the ou meta
sleeper pick now that it has tera blast. meta is too good for it at the moment because of mons like zama and mage but i really do thing the upside it has is pretty high (its not hard to get multiple dragon dances, especially with tera)



heatran/zapdos/hoopa u all do similar stuff to previous gens and seem really good at them (maybe hoopa deserves a bigger shout but havent seen too much from it yet)


obv day 1 impressions so take it with a grain of salt. this meta is fun but it's going to change very soon
goat
 
:ursaluna:
People need to stop overrating the this thing so hard. It has a slew of flaws that limit it and make it far from broken. It’s being touted as the best trick room abuser ever but has anti-synergy with Lunar Dance. Also, both of Ursaluna’s STABs have to contend with immunities, increasing how prediction reliant it is. Because of these factors, it can waste vital trick room turns and get easily forced out while making less progress than you want in those limited turns.

Outside of Trick Room, its reduced longevity affects how it plays a lot due to how easy it is to get out of range to trade with big threats. Ursaluna commonly ends up trading 1 for 1 with a big threat at some point, taking enough damage in the process that it’s not really doing anything for the rest of the game due to its useless speed tier. Ursaluna is going to rip through bulkier teams, but there’s an array of Pokemon that fit that descriptor in the metagame right now.

Ursaluna is the best Guts abuser we’ve ever seen due to its obscene bulk and power, useful defensive typing, and resistance to rocks (!!!). However, it has a lot of limitations that make it less problematic than other top threats like Regieleki, Magearna, Zamazenta, Chien-Pao, and Urshifu. Please relax on all the discussion about quickbanning this thing and focus on the real demons we got lurking…
This. Ursaluna is not ban worthy.
 

Finchinator

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Where I stand currently:


:Regieleki: and :Magearna: are the "big two" in terms of seemingly inevitable quickbans.

To me, Regieleki is even more broken than Magearna. Substitute has seen some usage, and I think it does great at easing the Tera prediction element when facing specific Ground types or things that can Tera Ground like Magearna. I feel like from there, it really takes over a lot of games and dominates the Tera timing/selection on both sides. I find it to not be support reliant or revenge killable while being an absolute monster offensively and being able to pivot out of some situations where it cannot nab an OHKO while potentially getting OHKO'd, so Regieleki is the perfect, broken offensive presence to me.

Of course, Magearna is still ridiculous. It can handpick its own counters, it can function as offensive or hazard utility, it can sweep with stacking boosts, and it can sweep with seemingly perfect coverage. This Pokemon is not long for the tier and it leaving will impact a lot of other things a great deal. I view it as behind Regieleki by a small amount as it is slower and sometimes it depends on its set for it to have a chance in any given match-up, but ultimately it is clearly not healthy and it is not possible to prepare for fully.

Personally, I would love to see these two removed sooner rather later, especially in the case of Regieleki (but also, I am confident both will go soon).

:Zamazenta: I personally rate higher than Crowned. Having an item slot is a godsend and it can pull off the best of both sides of the spectrum with access to Choice Band breaking sets as well as Iron Defense with gnarly strength. :Zamazenta-Crowned: is still very good, but I find it to be a bit more "cheese"y as you know exactly what it will do and while Body Press is ungodly strong, there are a handful of hard stops that make it more possible to account for than most things you would see quickbanned at this phase.

:Ursaluna: is a weird one. On the surface, it is absurdly broken, but in greater depth, it relies a ton on support. This odd balancing act still is not very balanced for the tier as it hinges on guesswork when given decent conditions and these conditions are easier to set-up than ever, but I at least find Ursaluna playable and minimizable relative to Regieleki and Magearna. Definitely worthy of being on the radar, but not committed to any outcome yet. If it outlasts Magearna, Trick Room may also reshape and this could dictate more for Ursaluna.

:Chien-Pao: is just as broken as before, but now you see its speed tier shining brighter than ever while less dedicated walls exist to stop Tera Dark Crunch. The occasional SD + Tera Blast variant is clutch to circumvent resists/checks, too.

Finally, :Sneasler: is absurd. Dire Claw is a nightmare to a competitive environment. I need to see how it pans out a tad as it's not as strong a Pokemon as those above, but the impacts of the move alone can have uncompetitive ramifications and reduce counterplay to praying odds go your way -- fuck that. And obviously Urshifu-R is very strong with some new toys, but I have personally not tried it yet and intend to tomorrow, so more on that later perhaps.

Would like to try and push the first ban through tomorrow, but a lot is still up in the air -- at worst, later this week we will have a council vote, so stay tuned!
 
Getting rid of eleki will be a great start.

as everyone knew, letting it in would just cause it to rise to the top of the shit pile.

you could have literally let in Calyrex-rider form into OU and eleki would still be top dog. (This assumes other Ubers don’t come down too, obviously)

1. hits hard enough for the below conditions to matter
2. Weakens something and pivots in same turn
3. Outspeeds everything - so top of the pecking order
4. Difficult to cover for without disclosing Tera types
 
Fuck around and find out time?
yeah in the context of lots of fast and strong hitters, having the fastest be a pivot that actually hits hard with its STAB is a big deal.


I don’t mean it’s better than calyrex rider, clearly. It’d just be more suffocating, lol. In Ubers it’s different due to lots of bulkier Pokémon’s.

edit: and this is relevant the faster and more offensive a metagame is, the better eleki is. As reduced viability of clodsire, gastrodon, etc matters a lot.
 
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CaptainSC

THE 'Hype Boy'
is a Tiering Contributor
I hit Mid 1800s today and i got sick of playing this meta already so here are my thoughts.


QB :regieleki: , :Magearna: --------- distance---------- :chien-pao: , :Ursaluna: , :Zamazenta-Crowned:
On the radar :Zamazenta: , :Sneasler: , :Urshifu-Rapid-Strike:

they're all broken u don't need me to tell u why tbh.

BUT imma rant ab chein-pao bc mfs are not giving this mon the respect it deserves.
Chien-Pao: :Chien-Pao: is a god damn joke. This snow leopard has been hard carrying me on damn near every MU and it's stupidly consistent for an offensive pokemon IF you make aggressive doubles.

Everybody on ladder basically shits their pants over CB pao and understandably so... But the set that I've been enjoying the most is the HDB all out attacker set with (ice spinner, crunch, sucker punch, sacred sword). And the amount of times this bastard just brings back games by clicking tera crunch into whatever follow up attack. Or just tera dark sucker punches Eleki is insane. (Yes I'm running Jolly bc I feel like you get WAY more out of the speed tier than if u were to be Adamant)

Jolly lets you outspeed (:tornadus-therian: , :Zamazenta-Crowned: , :sneasler: ) which is incredibly useful if you're trying to clean up everything.

And the reason why I'm saying chien-pao is stupidly consistent is because it can pick and choose if it wants to be a breaker or a cleaner depending on the match up. And more often than not it's gonna be able to do both w minimal proper support.

IK there's a bunch of stupid broken bastards around like :regieleki: and :magearna: BUT in my opinion the snow leopard is pretty much right up there with them.

Me personally Chien-pao feels more like a QB pokemon than a on the radar type of pokemon. However, I will say eleki and magearna are way higher on the list in terms of how stupid they are but chien pao still feels like it's above the rest right next to ursaluna.
 
Played a bit now and what I’ve observed:

  • fast paced meta,
  • minimum 3 on your team should have HDB.
  • Highly recommended to have 2+ Pokémon that will be banned on your teams, broken checks broken
  • You win or lose based on your Tera timing
  • Protect means a lot due to the above point
  • If you see cresselia, it’s probably Tera ghost, and if you also see a mag on the same team, it’s trick room. Got completely stomped by Highv0ltag3 running this lol
Here’s a fun and effective anti meta set:


Gholdengo @ Air Balloon
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Make It Rain
- Recover
- Thunder Wave

gholdengo checks all the sub S tier threats whilst doing okay against mag/eleki

What it checks: ursaluna, both zamazenta, scarf meowscarada (a metagame adaptation to all the speed and ceaseless edge), enamorous, and with Tera fairy can also check chien pao. Thunderwave is super meta right now despite all the electric and ground types. It can paralyze non-ground magearna too, although be careful with mag, one free turn and it might sweep your team.


-

I also think landorus running max speed and max HP is super viable right now. After reading someone on the forum suggesting protect I tried it and it’s really good. Landorus reminds me of pivot rotom without paint split. It’s u turn is super useful, especially with u turn support.

here’s a set, feel free to replace the Tera:


Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock
- Protect

-

Enamorous is gonna be super meta once chien pao is gone, it also resists sucker punch from gambit. We know gambit will become dominant once all the S threats get addressed.


-

Ursaluna is super fun, here’s a set I’ve been using, let me know your thoughts or ways to improve it


Ursaluna @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Facade
- Earthquake
- Bulk Up
- Fire Punch
 
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Can someone pass some replays with offensive mag? I haven't ran into really offensive variants, or even struggled dealing with more utility sets, and I'd like to see others experiences with it.
 

Cdijk16

Cdijk21 on PS!
is a Pre-Contributor
I played some games on PS!, and I think that Regieleki, Zamanzenta-H and Magearna are absolutely busted RN. The reasons for this have already been stated by others in this thread, so I'd like to talk about how best to make use of Eleki instead.
1. Tera is what pushes Eleki over the edge for the most part. Last gen it had to rely on weak moves like Ancient Power, team mates like GZap and Hazards to wear down ground types like Lando T and Chomp. Tera Ice/Tera Grass/Tera Water this gen lets it effortlessly blow through ground types. This makes it really good at getting momentrum for teams and also sweeping late game with Volt Switch and Thunderbolt respectively. It also outspeeds everything, making it an amazing revenge killer.
2. Now, I'd like to talk about a few pokemon I think it pairs well with. Note that Regieleki is still great without these pokemon to support it, and in some cases they benefit more from it than Regieleki does from them.
a. Spikers like Magearna, Garchomp and Clodsire
Electrics have always been good with Spikes, and Eleki is no exception. Almost all of its answers are grounded, meaning they get worn by Spikes + Volt Switch very quickly. It also forces a lot of switches, helping rack up Hazard damage. It fits very well on HStack Offense stuff.
b. Powerful physical wallbreakers
In my experience, Regieleki tends to draw in slow and specially bulky pokemon like AV Magearna, Hisuian Goodra, Galarian Slowking, Ting-Lu ,Bulky Magnezone, Rotom-Heat etc.
Strong physical breakers like Ursuluna, Shifu-RS, Great Tusk etc. can abuse these pokemon to come in with Volt Switch and wreak havoc. Gholdengo deserves a special mention as it can block Defog.
c. Rain
Rain powers up Tera Water and lets you break through niche checks like Iron Treads and Tera Water/Steel Thundrus Therian. It can also bring in rain breakers like Floatzel and Basculegion with Volt Switch for them to wreak havoc with their rain boosted water STABs. On paper, they can also wear down Bulky Grasses and Dragons for Regieleki.
4. Electro Ball is an interesting option on Regieleki to smack it's slow, specially defensive switchins. I'll let the calcs speak for themselves.
252 SpA Transistor Regieleki Electro Ball (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 414-488 (105.3 - 124.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Transistor Regieleki Electro Ball (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Magearna: 217-256 (72 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Transistor Regieleki Electro Ball (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 176 SpD Magearna: 186-220 (51 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Transistor Regieleki Electro Ball (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 108-127 (29.6 - 34.8%) -- 12.2% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Transistor Regieleki Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 248-294 (63.1 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Transistor Regieleki Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Magearna: 163-193 (54.1 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Transistor Regieleki Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 176 SpD Magearna: 141-166 (38.7 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Transistor Regieleki Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 81-96 (22.2 - 26.3%) -- 10.6% chance to 4HKO
 
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Trick Room with the cocaine bear is just so much fun. Mag + Cress as tr setters with mag FC eject pack, eject button hat and lunar dance on cress to give 3 safe switches in for the bear is often all you need to rip a huge hole in the opposition for CM hat and gambit to then clean up.

Even though the bear is helped a LOT by Mag TR and Mag is so obviously broken I still think the bear is going to be too much even once Mag is gone.

Also Garg goes hard on any team you chuck it in, wen suspect test?
 
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