Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]

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I think personally, Kingambit does more good for the meta then bad, specifically when it comes to Ghost spam in general. IMO Kingambit was manageable Pre-HOME there was 0 activity prior to the release of HOME of it being suspect tested. With the release of HOME it's gained more "checks" then before. Tera in general makes the good mons better than they already are and I feel like Gambit falls victim to that. Again I don't like beating a dead horse but Volc really helped with the Will-O-Wisp sets (Flame Body in general) and that's why we're not seeing Tera Fire Gambit as often anymore.
 
LandorusTBeatsGreatTusk said:
Why is Hisui Samurott A tier and is having so much success (or at least useage)?
Is there a set in particular that makes him such a valuable option in a team?
I tried using him, he felt like setup fodder (Belly Drummers, Iron Valiant, Zamazanta, Dragonite, etc.) and was quite underwhelming ; he never attacked more than twice because of its mediocre bulk + volturn weakeness, even against the mons he supposed to "check" like Gholdengo, Heatran and Glowking.
Very suprised by his placement.
(Would be greatful if someone shares a strong team with non-lead HSamurott)
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Hazards are big deal, without CE Samurott-H would be PU realistically but the ability to set hazards while attacking is just too good. However outside that it doesn't provide much unlike Ting-Lu which is ranker higher for all the extras it provides even if it is mainly a hazards setter.
 
Mega Breloom said:
Hazards are big deal, without CE Samurott-H would be PU realistically but the ability to set hazards while attacking is just too good. However outside that it doesn't provide much unlike Ting-Lu which is ranker higher for all the extras it provides even if it is mainly a hazards setter.
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The teams Samurott is on don't need what Ting-Lu provides, if Samurott dies Turn 2/3 they don't care that is free momentum. That's also why it doesn't really matter if hazard stack HO loses Scarf Gholdengo to Tusk to prevent spikes, now just throw in your stupid threats.
 
LandorusTBeatsGreatTusk said:
Why is Hisui Samurott A tier and is having so much success (or at least useage)?
Is there a set in particular that makes him such a valuable option in a team?
I tried using him, he felt like setup fodder (Belly Drummers, Iron Valiant, Zamazanta, Dragonite, etc.) and was quite underwhelming ; he never attacked more than twice because of its mediocre bulk + volturn weakeness, even against the mons he supposed to "check" like Gholdengo, Heatran and Glowking.
Very suprised by his placement.
(Would be greatful if someone shares a strong team with non-lead HSamurott)
Click to expand...
AV is a popular one, it serves as a decent check to Ghold, Basc-F among others. Staying alive longer and having that surprise bulk is great for getting an extra layer up.
SD can be a nasty surprise against weakened balance teams. The speed tier is not great but you have great priority options and it can serve as an anti-tera measure.
Physdef Bulky mixed messes with Tusk+ Lando in addition to avoid rocky helmet damage. This one pair well with ghost tera and torrent is a decent option if you're using aqua jet and want to bait something specifically.
Adamant Black Glasses with Ceaseless + Knock AND Sucker is pretty fun, nobody expects Gambit-esque power (not to mention dark tera). Does well on bulkier teams with pivot support and more than one answer to Valliant/Enamorous/Sneasler ect.
Encore is always a great utility move and allows it to beat Gambit more reliably. You can add Copycat to this mix for some nasty mindgames, surprise pivoting against slow teams (paired with Volturners), or even nabbing a cheaky Roost off an encored Corvi or a spin off Tusk with ghost tera.
Or you could go fuck it and slap a Band on it, hits like a truck. Sharpness is no joke, it has an effective attack stat of ~185 on boosted moves.

Just pick a version which complements your team structure and you'll get milage out of it guaranteed.
 
ant4456 said:
The teams Samurott is on don't need what Ting-Lu provides, if Samurott dies Turn 2/3 they don't care that is free momentum. That's also why it doesn't really matter if hazard stack HO loses Scarf Gholdengo to Tusk to prevent spikes, now just throw in your stupid threats.
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The thing is that Sam teams also lose if the rival set ups first and Sam sucks at preventing that.
 
Mega Breloom said:
The thing is that Sam teams also lose if the rival set ups first and Sam sucks at preventing that.
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You could run sacred sword to counter lead other Hamurott


252 Atk Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Sacred Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Samurott-Hisui: 312-368 (97.1 - 114.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
 
kosecant said:
You could run sacred sword to counter lead other Hamurott


252 Atk Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Sacred Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Samurott-Hisui: 312-368 (97.1 - 114.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
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I mean set up like DD or SD, most of HO team don't have a way to stop set up sweepers if they boost first than the ones in their own team.
 
Then I think it’s time for some heat:

Samurott-Hisui @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulldoze
- Taunt
- Knock Off
- Ceaseless Edge

bulldoze to lower speed, taunt to prevent set up, and then knock or ceaseless edge based on what would be more advantageous at that moment. Maybe not the best set, but it should help vs set up sweepers that want to come in and take advantage
 
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kosecant said:
Then I think it’s time for some heat:

Samurott-Hisui @ Focus Sash
Ability: Torrent
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulldoze
- Taunt
- Knock Off
- Ceaseless Edge

bulldoze to lower speed, taunt to prevent set up, and then knock or ceaseless edge based on what would be more advantageous at that moment. Maybe not the best set, but it should help vs set up sweepers that want to come in and take advantage
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Unless Ceaseless Edge is somehow both water type and not boosted by Sharpness, isn't Sharpness the better ability over Torrent?
 
Mega Breloom said:
Hazards are big deal, without CE Samurott-H would be PU realistically but the ability to set hazards while attacking is just too good. However outside that it doesn't provide much unlike Ting-Lu which is ranker higher for all the extras it provides even if it is mainly a hazards setter.
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Ngl, Ting-lu can be used as a suicide lead and I think it would still be better than Samur-H because it is so Bulky, letting it setup multiple layers. SR + 1 layer of Spikes is dealing more damage than two layers that Samur-H is setting. It can also Whirlwind a few times to soften the enemy team up

Samurott-H is also inconsistent due to CE accuracy.
 
Magcargo said:
Ngl, Ting-lu can be used as a suicide lead and I think it would still be better than Samur-H because it is so Bulky, letting it setup multiple layers. SR + 1 layer of Spikes is dealing more damage than two layers that Samur-H is setting. It can also Whirlwind a few times to soften the enemy team up
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Ting-Lu @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Vessel of Ruin
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Whirlwind
- Ruination/Stone Edge
If you absolutely need to Tera, you can get a boosted stone edge. Otherwise, just stick to biggering your hazards and whirlwinding your foes. Youve base 125 def so just invest in your bolstered SpD due to VoR, and Ruination is always solid damage for the next guy to finish off from.
 
Magcargo said:
Ngl, Ting-lu can be used as a suicide lead and I think it would still be better than Samur-H because it is so Bulky, letting it setup multiple layers. SR + 1 layer of Spikes is dealing more damage than two layers that Samur-H is setting. It can also Whirlwind a few times to soften the enemy team up

Samurott-H is also inconsistent due to CE accuracy.
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The big value of CE is ignoring Magic Bounce Hat. Haterrene was amazing before Home bc it can block all hazzard setters. Now it can't block CE from setting hazzards
 
Pabloaram said:
The big value of CE is ignoring Magic Bounce Hat. Haterrene was amazing before Home bc it can block all hazzard setters. Now it can't block CE from setting hazzards
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Agreed, I think that's why Hatterene dropped in terms of viability because of the pure usage of Samu-H. It'll also take a solid chunk of damage from CE

I've been seeing an increased usage in regards to the Swords Dance set (Ceaseless Edge, Razor Shell, Swords Dance, Aqua Jet / Sucker Punch).

What's everyone's thoughts about Kleavor and it falling out of OU the first month?
 
AndViet said:
Agreed, I think that's why Hatterene dropped in terms of viability because of the pure usage of Samu-H. It'll also take a solid chunk of damage from CE

I've been seeing an increased usage in regards to the Swords Dance set (Ceaseless Edge, Razor Shell, Swords Dance, Aqua Jet / Sucker Punch).

What's everyone's thoughts about Kleavor and it falling out of OU the first month?
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Kleavor is cheeks. Case closed.
 
AndViet said:
What's everyone's thoughts about Kleavor and it falling out of OU the first month?
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I think it's actually pretty good, but it's hampered by being the second best Sharpness, 85 speed hazard setter with a damaging move introduced in Pokemon Legends: Arceus.

It'll probably see use in UU, but the lack of priority is very noticeable compared to Aqua Jet + Sucker Punch.
 
AndViet said:
Agreed, I think that's why Hatterene dropped in terms of viability because of the pure usage of Samu-H. It'll also take a solid chunk of damage from CE

I've been seeing an increased usage in regards to the Swords Dance set (Ceaseless Edge, Razor Shell, Swords Dance, Aqua Jet / Sucker Punch).

What's everyone's thoughts about Kleavor and it falling out of OU the first month?
Click to expand...

Kleavor is ass. It's got no business in OU. It will likely be RU within a few months
 
AndViet said:
Agreed, I think that's why Hatterene dropped in terms of viability because of the pure usage of Samu-H. It'll also take a solid chunk of damage from CE

I've been seeing an increased usage in regards to the Swords Dance set (Ceaseless Edge, Razor Shell, Swords Dance, Aqua Jet / Sucker Punch).

What's everyone's thoughts about Kleavor and it falling out of OU the first month?
Click to expand...
As long boots exist Kleavor is going to be ass on OU because all the rock weak mons use them so the biggest advantage rocks had over spikes is gone, while most of the mons that don't use boots often resist them, particularly Tusk which is the main hazard removal in the tier has doble resist to them.
 
Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Tera Blast
Genuinely got bored and asked myself what an unexpected use for a low rank mon could be, and surprisingly Gastrodon has an OK matchup with Final Form Kingambit. It isn't our Holy Grail of a bug like Volc was, but it can put in the work.
252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Fighting Gastrodon: 204-240 (47.8 - 56.3%) -- 28.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
is the most your typical Gamb will do. Any more would be from a more off-meta set and thus run the risk of opening it to more conventional means of checkmate.
0 SpA Tera Fighting Gastrodon Tera Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 372-436 (109 - 127.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Tera Fighting Gastrodon Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tera Flying Kingambit: 138-164 (40.4 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
is fishing more for a freeze than anything. I chose flying because that seems like a common means to get around a fighting weakness, without opening yourself to good ghosts like Dragapult.

I do not advocate for it to be blankly slotted in like Valiant can be, for it is definitely not the best. However, should you know better than I and can integrate it into a team, like say a good counter-rain team, to maximize Storm Drain's potential, it could put in the work.
 
The Elite 4 really running OU right now (and gholdengo). :fukyu:
5573EB7A-08A8-48A1-9AF3-C580E5DB73B4.jpeg
 

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AndViet said:
Agreed, I think that's why Hatterene dropped in terms of viability because of the pure usage of Samu-H. It'll also take a solid chunk of damage from CE

I've been seeing an increased usage in regards to the Swords Dance set (Ceaseless Edge, Razor Shell, Swords Dance, Aqua Jet / Sucker Punch).

What's everyone's thoughts about Kleavor and it falling out of OU the first month?
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I'm not surprised. I was scared of Kleavor at first, but once the intimidation factor has passed, Rocks aren't as scary as I thought. He goes down pretty easy.

Hatterene with Trick Room can at least contest with Hammorot, but nothing is stopping those hazards from appearing. I've give up on hazard control, the devs wants hazards up at all times.

Garg is made from the salt of our tears.
 
I think another big point against Kleavor is that SR can't stack like Spikes. Most teams have to account for Rocks being up with HDB or otherwise simply because it's so quick to go up regardless at max-efficiency, so there aren't going to be team members dedicated to stopping SR unless they're anti-Leads who probably already deal with Kleavor anyway. Hamurott benefits from Ceaseless Edge's spammability to set up multiple Spikes before he faints, but Kleavor doesn't benefit from Stone Axe past the first use beyond being a STAB move (that is resisted by a lot of OU big wigs alongside his Bug STAB compared to CE). The move doesn't afford him much benefit beyond happening to set up SR, which doesn't "compress" as much in terms of progress in one turn.

This all on top of other disadvantages like Hamurott's better typing and additional moves (Defog on Kleavor would be nice if it didn't work against its main move)
 
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