As far as I'm aware, Darkrai was never tested after the Dark Void nerf. So I feel it deserves its fair shot, even if it will still likely be banned.
-
The moderators of this forum are Finchinator, Ruft, ausma, 658Greninja, kd458, FayaWizard, Srn, TPP, and viivian.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2024 Smog Awards!
Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
- Status
As far as I'm aware, Darkrai was never tested after the Dark Void nerf. So I feel it deserves its fair shot, even if it will still likely be banned.
That's not how Tiering Works. Mons getting nerfed =/= being balanced for OU.
Did you even read my post?
So this isn't a one-liner, how is trick room doing in the meta? Would a semi-room strategy with say Ursa and Cress have any viability, or is that just a gimmick?
Free the broken bulky asf setup sweeper/breaker in a tier with Terastilization
4 Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 248 HP / 4 Def Magearna: 288-342 (79.3 - 94.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
32 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 248 HP / 4 Def Magearna: 270-318 (74.3 - 87.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
132 SpA Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Magearna: 224-266 (61.7 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fairy Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Gholdengo: 253-298 (69.5 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fairy Magearna Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 145-172 (36.8 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fairy Magearna Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 234-276 (50.5 - 59.6%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fairy Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Skeledirge: 202-238 (49.1 - 57.9%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO
Also the fact we would be bringing in a Stored Power sweeper that is much harder to deal with than Cress offensively and defensively.
Why do you want this?
It seems like a gimmick to me. Needing a turn to set TR hurts in such a fast paced meta. Ursaluna doesn’t like spike stack and there’s a lot of that going on right now. Also correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t Cresselia’s healing wish have anti-synergy with Ursaluna since it resets burn?
Also funny enough Ursaluna gets undersped by the common Glowking and takes a lot from surf.
I don’t think I’ve ever felt threatened by trick room in the rare times I’ve encountered it in the 1700s. But maybe the high ladder experience is different.
Darkrai would be too strong i think, powerful dark type that's a major player in the tier to the point of being anssue. It's got the coverage, it's got the power, and even has hypnosis cheese. It doesn't even need focus blast anymore because of Tera blast+tera fighting.
And magearna with tera Is busted. No argument on that, without it, it's more debatable, but then there's the stored power sets which are still toxic asf. Magearna being healthy is possible, despite what people want to think, but what would have to change for that is hard to pin down.
And magearna with tera Is busted. No argument on that, without it, it's more debatable, but then there's the stored power sets which are still toxic asf. Magearna being healthy is possible, despite what people want to think, but what would have to change for that is hard to pin down.
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Darkrai Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 437-515 (85 - 100.1%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
Bulkiest Dark resist in the tier everyone
I don't know if I want Darkrai back in a Tera OU, but the screwed up part is that honestly, his stat line isn't THAT busted with what OU looks like right now (70/90/90 is kinda mid bulk and his offense is good but not something we don't already deal with between stuff like Drag and Booster Valiant). Losing reliable sleep makes him "just" a really strong Nasty Plot Sweeper, but I would more elect he stays Uber for now as "he doesn't add anything to the tier" than "he's broken in the tier" overall, which is a worthwhile distinction at least.
I would want to see a list of options but I can't think of any current Ubers (Kingambit excluded since he didn't make the Ban cut) where enough has changed to be worth the rerun post DLC unless the new-new mons really shake things up.
Also this isn't relevant but amused me to check
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Sneasler: 211-248 (70 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I would want to see a list of options but I can't think of any current Ubers (Kingambit excluded since he didn't make the Ban cut) where enough has changed to be worth the rerun post DLC unless the new-new mons really shake things up.
Does Darkrai have room for a Poison move (if he might still have one via TMs)? I would expected he's more worried about Fairies (mainly Enamorus) at this point because of that two move coverage otherwise. Not in a "he'd be balanced" way just as a "this is a more important thing to dismantle" point of argument.
Also this isn't relevant but amused me to check
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Sneasler: 211-248 (70 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Dark Void has nothing to do with the problems Darkrai brings, especially seeing as it can simply use Hypnosis on Nasty Plots sets and Specs wouldn't run either.
I can see nasty plot + three attacks seeing a lot of use especially on screens. Dark pulse, focus blast, and tera poison sludge bomb (or tera blast if it loses the move) to surprise booster Val, scarf Enamorus, and Zamazenta. Very scary…
Time for the monthly "Darkrai/ giratina for ou" discussion. So you're telling me what we need in the current metagame is tera dark dark pulse Darkrai. It's literally Darkrai.
just to end the discussion as well, the fact that Giratina gets calm mind is disgusting. Bro does not belong here with that bulk, that boosting move, and the ability to become water or fairy
Darkrai I think deserves a test on the basis that a) it hasn’t really gotten one since it got its consistency nerfed and b) power creep hasn’t pushed it that far above the rest of OU, but I wouldn’t be shocked if it stays banned, especially in a Tera OU meta. Conversely, Giratina should never never never never never touch OU. I do not want Dragapult with 150/120/120 bulk in OU, even if it has “only” base 90 speed. Specs Giratina-A smashes the whole tier and never dies, Calm Mind is disgusting, and it can even run physical sets just to fuck with you. (Choice Band w/Dragon Claw/TB Ghost/EQ/Shadow Sneak). Any weaknesses its type gives can just be Tera’d away. Like I know why people think it would be ok given that Zam-H is ok but trust me, Zamazenta WISHES it could exert as much offensive pressure as Giratina does with STAB Shadow Ball and Draco Meteor.
First argument could literally be used for zacian. Second argument begs the question who are the counters
will volc be back after dlc drops?
Honestly, people hate the "F" word, but when it comes to bringing something down from ubers, Will this make the tier more fun? is an important question to ask before seriously entertaining the idea. Sure, some of these mons might be "balanced" in their own versions of OU, but of the ones that are?
The metagames that would form around them are definitely not an improvement.
In conclusion:
I feel like people are giving darkrai too much credit. 135 Spatk isn’t super crazy anymore, and neither is 125 speed. It has okish bulk, a great move pool and basically no ability. Like it would definitely be good, but I feel like it’s gotten powercrept really hard.
135 spatk is still well above most Pokemon in the tier right now. And 125 speed is faster than everything except Dragapult who for obvious reasons has no interest in getting near it and Zama who Darkrai doesnt like anyway. Nasty plot sets would not only be absurd in terms of answering it defensively, but offensively all but requires scarfers. It would not be a positive or balanced addition for the tier.
Tell me, how has it gotten powercrept? Because, respectfully, people have a tendency to throw the word around.
Last edited:
Preach, Darkrai's only defensive checks that have been OU mons in the past are Magearna, which is banned, and specially defensive Kommo-o, which is not attainable at this time. Darkrai would be without a doubt broken if it were to be dropped into OU. There is literally 0 reason to test it for any reason as it'd be incredibly unhealthy for the meta just in theory only. It makes no sense to drop Darkrai into OU unless the quality of OU's walls significantly increases, which as far as we know, isn't happening.
Last edited:
hoopa iron moth hatt have higher spark, enam has the same spark, but this hardly makes this standard considering this is higher than ghold and these mons are slower than Darkrai by quite a bit. Np with a tera type (maybe flying to hit tusk) would destroy defense, while there is some mons faster they dont hit nearly as hard dont get np/sd, and it resists dragapult shadow ball
This bit is nonsense. Much of the list is completely unviable in OU, or so niche as to be ignorable - and that's the point, that defog distribution is terrible and it's not primarily about Gholdengo - but there's a full half-dozen mons there that are viable OU choices, and five of them can reasonably run Defog.
Those six, along with their current ratings on the VR:
Corviknight : B+
Frosmoth : C
Hawlucha : B-
Lilligant-H : B
Scizor : B
Talonflame : C
I also cited Maushold as a removal option, who is ranked at C+.
Last edited:
Moth lucha and lilli aint running removal where are you getting these sets
mold breaker defog lucha holds the honor of being one of exactly three pokemon that can click hazard removal in front of gholdengo and have the hazards actually go away (and cinderace only half-counts because if both sides have hazards up then court change doesn't accomplish as much), so there's at least one niche for it
of course, there is the downside of it being bad and stupid, but it exists
I mean, most defensive fairies handle it just fine.
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 56+ SpD Clefable: 164-192 (41.6 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Darkrai: 216-254 (76.5 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Which would force darkrai to run sludge bomb. Assuming it’s running the pretty standard set of nasty plot and hypnosis with 2 attacks, it’s now easily walled by Ting Lu.
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 109-129 (21.2 - 25%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Ting-Lu Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 127-151 (45 - 53.5%) -- 33.2% chance to 2HKO
so you either rely on focus blast, which is not great, or you run Tera fighting, which make fairies an even better counter. Or you drop hypnosis, but that makes setting up a nasty plot harder.
Darkrai would obviously be great, but I’m not convinced it’s nearly as unwallable as people claim. I also don’t think it “needs” to be suspected, I just think it’s strong points are pretty over blown
- Status