I don't think time stalling SHOULD be enabled at a legitimate strategy is the thing. Sometimes games go to time, it happens, but when possible games should be allowed to be played out to their natural conclusions.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]
- Thread starter TPP
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I don't think time stalling SHOULD be enabled at a legitimate strategy is the thing. Sometimes games go to time, it happens, but when possible games should be allowed to be played out to their natural conclusions.
the two hax birds, cresselia and dondo made the meta a little bit more manageable but at the same time, they add even more frustation, specially the two birds with random effects. I have seen someone suggesting banning flame body in a policy review thread of few gens ago (maybe 7?) getting a lot of praise because in some cases is even more bad than scald
bax is still impossible to deal with except for dondo, so this is still valid
having hax the only real counterplay to threats like valiant, zama and gambit tells a lot
I don't have much to say about Bax that hasn't already been said by others but I'd love to see it suspected. Since January I've felt it has such ease setting up and the second it's sent out, its opponent has to be very very careful to not auto lose, and is generally very frustrating and volatile to deal with. Like many swords dance sweepers in this meta, the game of "it's probably going to Tera and swords dance this turn, but will it become Steel, Fairy, or Ground? Or will it wait until it attacks and become a Dragon?" just feels like a bit much to me and a guessing game that, although team context can help with, there's really not a great way to know going in, and depending on what you have out, it might not even matter much, because it just takes one SD to end the game - doesn't seem like a "this would be completely fine if it couldn't Tera" thing
I feel that outside of Dozo, defensive Tera is the way most players try to stop it, but that really turns various situations into 50/50s instead of actually working as counterplay.
Nothing feels more satisfying than clicking +2 Crash on Gambit as it goes for the Tera Fairy / Flying.
A lot of things would be fine without Tera, but I don't think we're not gonna get anywhere with it until DLC's are both released unfortunately. Tera Blast is a fine resolution too, but again, wait times. I don't think both / either Terablast or Terastalization are surviving the new Tera-type though, things are gonna change a bit.
A big problem with time stalling as a legitimate strategy is that its effectiveness is highly based on things like your opponent's internet connection that should never be a deciding factor in a skill-based game if it can be avoided
Genuine question: what does time stalling add to the game that isn't already covered by the turn limit?
I fail to see how "try to make the other player have to leave to deal with life stuff" adds either competitive value or any possible definition of fun.
I fail to see how "try to make the other player have to leave to deal with life stuff" adds either competitive value or any possible definition of fun.
If you mean on-cart, that's a pretty shit idea for the whole "spectator sport" aspect. Even if it ends up running an event longer, no one wants to WATCH the text "(Pokemon) used (move)!" followed by a nondescript hit effect appearing over the enemy over a dozen times per match. Maybe for non-streamed grassroots events if the competitors are okay with it, but keep it off of the streamed stuff.
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I’m just going to throw this out there: I don’t think Bax would be significantly more healthy in a meta without Tera, unlike Kingambit. Usually any flaws that can be exploited defensively in one Bax set could instead be solved by running another Bax set like DD or Band or what have you that are either faster or have immediate power. It is just a ridiculously powerful breaker/sweeper with consistent priority, incredible STABS, all the coverage it needs, and even a burn immunity, and Tera is as useful in scraping up an emergency defensive answer to it as it is in enabling its sweeps.
EDIT: I see now that this has already been mentioned. Glad I’m not alone in this sentiment.
EDIT: I see now that this has already been mentioned. Glad I’m not alone in this sentiment.
I agree with this entirely. Bax would be a target for a suspect right now if we had more time. We will continue to patrol it moving forward, too, but logistics stand in the way of any action until DLC right now.
Did somebody make a YouTube video hyping up Regidrago? Feel like I'm seeing it more and more recently.
The person I was talking to was talking about on Showdown, not cart. I fully agree that for events that have spectating as an element you very much want them on if possible. Not to mention I imagine some people wouldn't turn them off, which creates unfair advantages because the time saved from having them off is non-negligible and standardizing it is important. This is probably why the feature isn't in Gen 9. Not for competitive play, but for raids and their real time nature. Someone with animations off would have a fair bit more time to do them than someone with them on.
Wolfey made one about it, but that's for VGC so I doubt it would be influencing its use in singles.
i think people are just now figuring out exactly how hard specs dragon energy hits. here are the calcs on some non-fairies that you might normally consider switching into a special dragon move:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 288-339 (72 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 271-319 (71.6 - 84.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Corviknight: 201-237 (50.3 - 59.3%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 313-370 (60.8 - 71.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cresselia: 319-376 (71.8 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 363-427 (78.4 - 92.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar: 228-268 (57.8 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Toxapex: 246-291 (81.1 - 96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 144 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Tera Normal Dragonite: 252-297 (70.1 - 82.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Heatran: 179-211 (46.3 - 54.6%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 363-427 (78.4 - 92.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Blissey: 388-457 (54.3 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Fucking Chansey: 322-379 (45.7 - 53.8%) -- 44.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 271-319 (71.6 - 84.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Corviknight: 201-237 (50.3 - 59.3%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 313-370 (60.8 - 71.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cresselia: 319-376 (71.8 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 363-427 (78.4 - 92.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar: 228-268 (57.8 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Toxapex: 246-291 (81.1 - 96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 144 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Tera Normal Dragonite: 252-297 (70.1 - 82.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Heatran: 179-211 (46.3 - 54.6%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 363-427 (78.4 - 92.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Blissey: 388-457 (54.3 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Regidrago Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Fucking Chansey: 322-379 (45.7 - 53.8%) -- 44.5% chance to 2HKO
nothing switches in on this besides fairies
from first glance, using this gimmick mandates serious hazard control though, which is hard with all the spikes and gholdengo running around. often hard to find chances to switch in without taking hazard damage, and also struggles to revenge kill things properly because of it's low speed, although I guess you could bluff scarf.
Also, thank you Goodbye & Thanks for helping me clear up the illusion ability weather interaction confusion, much appreciated
does the increased power really make it worth using over specs pult (which is already worse than the pivot sets) though?
I agree, nothing can be done now. That includes about Bax too honestly, at least for the next couple weeks. Tbh we have no idea what that new Tera type will be or how itll fucnction so it's pretty difficult to speculate. I agree also that a lot of things would be fine without Tera but I don't think Bax is on that list, from what I've heard from those playing the Teraless tour it's pretty problematic there. It turns out you don't need Tera when you have Glaive Rush. But it sure helps! I'd say Bax is "even worse" with Tera not "only broken" with it
this is all true, and it's the reason why regidrago isn't super viable—it takes tremendous risk and skill to be able to pilot. i was simply explaining why i think people are using regidrago now: they see the calcs and they think "haha specs go boom". even though there's a much better "haha specs go boom" mon who's actually in the tier, regidrago attracts people to it by having a nearly unmatched damage output if you keep it healthy. drago usage will sink back down in a month or two when the people who picked it up realize that pult is way easier
Thank you
In my opinion, we should do a survey around this time before DLC drops. Although I'm aware that the information won't be very valuable, it can still act as a point of reference regarding what mons the playerbase considers problematic currently and how DLC additions will affect those mons. As you said, you're patrolling Bax rn and will continue to do so, and I think the info from the survey will help to see whether it's problematic elements can be managed post-DLC.
We are going to have a survey on potential drops from Ubers before DLC. Bax could be a discussion point after DLC and that is more likely to be when we patrol it as closely as possible. Doing a survey on it now will just lead to dead data honestly.
Can you spoil who is going to be on the line? I need Magearna and Espathra back from Ubers expeditiously to build my full Stored Power team and finally git gud.
I think players prefer more to see the current issues solved (bax, very hard hazard control, maybe tera?) rather than unban new toys with the dlc.
Some pokemons are still broken asf, chien pao showed how strong it was even with both zama ou and dondo. magearna lol; volcarona will really add something other than skyrocket the usage of moltres even more, until volc will run tera rock?
skip a survey, and just unban volc
i dont even like volc but if you are really certain on just listening to the surveys, end this monkey paw and just give the probably least broken one that people also want, volcarona
cant wait for a youtuber to be like "it'd be funny to unban Palafin also its checked by Slowbro ig" and we delay real tiering of the new DLC even further
i dont even like volc but if you are really certain on just listening to the surveys, end this monkey paw and just give the probably least broken one that people also want, volcarona
cant wait for a youtuber to be like "it'd be funny to unban Palafin also its checked by Slowbro ig" and we delay real tiering of the new DLC even further
What's the timeline on surveys/suspects inbetween DLC 1 and 2?
(Disclaimer the following is facetious)
Go for the Ubers method where half the Meta is Miraidon checks and the other half is Koraidon checks (including the Dragons themselves) and then everything else is collateral. We already got Gambit and Bax is looking to take the other half of that clash.
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