that's, uh… that's kind of a criterion for every reverse sweep. otherwise it's just a sweep
which it can always just do. you're saying this as though it isn't the easiest thing in the world to get an sd off on gambit
this i'll give you, but fast sub/encore can stop a lot of reverse sweeps if played correctly
maybe in 7, but not really in 8. high usage doesn't necessarily mean centralizing. sometimes it's the result of a different mon centralizing the meta around itself, or a certain strategy centralizing the whole meta around itself—for example, tusk has high usage but it isn't centralizing, it's a symptom of hazard stack being centralizing. a mon is centralizing when it starts singlehandedly affecting the sets and mons that people are running in a noticeable way. i don't really remember anything in gen 8 that was popping up specifically to deal with lando. gen 7, that can be argued because i do recall a number of things were running hp ice for it (including itself), but garchomp and zygarde (when it was in the tier) also had an effect on that so i don't know how much lando can be blamed for it
Have you noticed that four of these listed mons are balanced around having a 4x weakness to common and powerful attacking types? Ice for Lando and Chomp, Ground for Heatran, Fighting for TTar. Kingambit is also balanced around this, with its 4x weakness to Fighting. Except sometimes, when it's a Fairy type, or a Flying type, or a Fire type, or that one time I saw this completely wack Tera Grass set. This is not a metagame where you can count on a good matchup being consistent across matches, because Kingambit can use Tera to start sweeping after a single Swords Dance because suddenly it resists your move that was going to OHKO it. The problem is that despite being such a linear mon with really only one thing it does and one set it has, Tera gives it such wild diversity that there are no reliable answers to every Gambit. Isn't it kind of a meme how it can duel Great Tusk after Tera?
It's just comparing Kingambit being common and necessitating people run checks to the listed mons in past generations and how they do the same. I hope.
first off not taking account for scarf lando in ORAS is just suicide
I don't know which part of that said you couldn't/shouldn't or I personally don't, or how it detracts from the overall point.
someone who considers kingambit reasonable is probably also out-of-touch enough to think that the latis are in the meta too, so it could be either one
There's something very funny about how it wasn't until DPP when they started caring about game balance, but everyone loves ADV OU and only people who don't understand the appeal of their metagames don't like RBY and GSE. Gamefreak only cooks on accident, it seems.
i was talking ab the part where comparng lando's set versatility to king gambit is just flat out stupid. those are 2 completely different mons that do 2 completely different things
That is... the entire point of my post? Lando has multiple viable sets that it can run, but you don't need to counter all of them in the builder and what works on one will generally work on others. Kingambit has one set that it occasionally changes a single move on, but because this is a metagame with Tera it is wildly unpredictable and you have to guess how to counter it and often run several blanket checks. Therefore, the comparison of the person I was responding to, that Kingambit is just like Lando of previous gens, is a really bad comparison.
youre coming at this from the wrong angle, tera is what allows you the turn of setup, its not some great opportunity cost to tera kingambit if that is your endgame plan. the fact is sacking a pokemon earlier in the game rather than using their tera also contributes to gambits strength, so it creates value in that too. you cant force an opponent to tera, they can simply choose not to.
Its hitting 436, which
Double dance means it's either only running STAB or missing out on one STAB, which in Gambit's case actually kinda hurts. Dark is a great attacking type to throw out, but there's a lot of switch-ins that can resist both it and Steel or resist one and be neutral to the other. Tusk in particular would have a better time against this set since you miss out on the Adamant boost and there's no room for a cheeky Tera Blast. Truth be told, I don't know if it would actually do all that much for Gambit, since its strength is blowing past everything after a Swords Dance and 50% Supreme Overlord boost and Rock Polish has to be run at the expense of something else. You're technically more consistent because you can go first without Sucker Punch, but it sounds a lot more delicate to set up than normal.
double dance seems awful to try and set up because gambit typically only gets one free turn and it has to use tera for it (and despite this it's still broken). on the flip side, you fuck up every unboosted thing in the game without needing to play the sucker mindgame, which makes gambit a lot more consistent. on the double flip side, there are a number of scarfers you still don't outspeed at +2 and you'd be sorely missing sucker punch for those guys. on the triple flip side, the fact that the set is a little suboptimal means that a lot of people won't be prepared for it and might potentially misplay and give you an extra setup turn. on the quadruple flip side, this isn't really something that you can rely on in a match because these kinds of psyops only work at a very specific point in high-mid/low-high ladder—too low and people are just mindlessly clicking buttons, too high and people are already 4 parallel universes ahead of you and have already predicted you so hard that they have a specific counterteam to your team and all their nicknames are your social security number. on the quintuple flip side, gambit doesn't technically need much outside of kowtow cleave and fairy tera blast to shred every viable thing, so you can get away without running iron head on a double dance set. on the sextuple flip side, you're fucked if you want to run a different tera type on this sort of set because it blows a huge hole in your coverage, so you're effectively constrained to a single tera type. on the septuple flip side, i've flipped too much and am starting to feel dizzy, i'm going to go lie down
What does Kowtow Cleave cover, anyways? Dragapult? Tera Fairy Blast em. Youve got 5 other team members to whittle down any potential outlying checks and counters, so you can give up dark type coverage in this meta anyways iirc,
Honestly sounds pretty bad. Kingambit reaches 398 at +2 with a neutral nature. While this is only outsped by 2 Pokemon naturally, tons of Pokemon at +1 will outspeed you. Scarf 72+ base speed can reach 400. Also keep in mind Kingambit has to waste time and a moveslot to still be third fastest Pokemon in OU. Only thing I can see this being useful for is if;
