Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]

What do all these contentious pokemon have in common:

• Roaring Moon
• Gouging Fire
• Walking Wake (and Sun teams)
• Archaludon + barraskewda (and rain teams)
• Kyurem
• Gholdengo
• Volcarona
• Gliscor
• baxcalibur - Pre alolan nintails
• sneasler - Pre grassy glide Rillaboom
• kingambit

  • roaring moon is checked by balloon, bulky or Tera gambit
  • Gouging fire is checked by balloon with/or Tera gambit
  • walking wake and sun teams in general are checked by endgame gambit
  • Barraskewda and rain teams in general are checked by gambits ability to blow turns, or turn it into 50/50s. Archaludon slightly changed the dynamic
  • Kyurem is checked by balloon gambit and can be generally checked on its weird sets by standard lefties bulky gambit
  • Gholdengo is checked by gambit
  • Volcarona is checked by Tera or bulky gambit
  • Standard Gliscor is checked by balloon gambit, non standard sets fear the Tera+SD end game and can’t whittle it easily.
  • Bax is checked by balloon or bulky gambit
  • Before grassy glide Rillaboom, sneasler + unburden teams were comfortably dealt with by Tera gambit
  • Kingambit is best checked by itself, jolly 252 speed, ideally with low kick
Of particular note is Gambit using Tera is rarely “wasted” since it’s the #1 Tera receiver in OU. Using Tera on your gambit is not equivalent to being forced to Tera on your Gliscor/tusk/gholdengo etc
I agree with all of this. Although my meta solution is even more direct; ban Tera.

In addition to turning this game into a chaotic mess, Tera makes it more difficult to identify what is and isn’t broken. There is always a defensive Tera for these broken mons. In a no-Tera metagame, we would find out real quickly which Pokemon are still problematic. Until then, let the chaos persist!
 
The difference is tusk itself isn’t contentious.

kingambit is.

my argument is that if gambit had been banned a lot of these problematic mons wouldn’t be as polarising . People would be voting to ban more decisively
That is literally what I was saying, that yes you are right, but it probably wouldn't happen right now. The first half of it was a shitpost, to say that just because something can check a lot of threats doesn't make it broken, then the second half was agreeing with you but saying to be cautious on the impact.
 
We need to reconfigure that “eight fucking ground types in OU” meme to show the new type that’s unique to gen 9…

and it’s not fairy

we have “eight fucking overpowered types” right now.

heatran: “holy shit” - probably
ironically heatran is one of the best mons rn imo because it at the very least trades with like 80% of the tier with trapping + tera and checks so many things by virtue of its typing and flash fire. People are SLEEPING on it so hard
 
ironically heatran is one of the best mons rn imo because it at the very least trades with like 80% of the tier with trapping + tera and checks so many things by virtue of its typing and flash fire. People are SLEEPING on it so hard
If we remove rain from the tier, Heatran has some of the best matchups ever. Like half the top mons it wins against.

  1. Kyurem it counters hard if it has its air balloon intact, which if you play smart it can
  2. Raging bolt it can do decently against, as it can switch into a draco and trap it.
  3. Walking wake it can switch in on either draco or flamethrower and trap it.
  4. Roaring Moon it can tera against and get a will-o-wisp off, which is big as that can cripple moon immensly.
  5. Ghold and gambit take big damage from magma storm and gambit has to be scared of wisp
  6. Volcarona can be hard walled by heatran unless it has the right tera, which can be countered by heatran's tera.
  7. Gliscor it can defeat if it keeps its balloon intact and they only have e-quake, which quite a few do.
  8. Serperior while less common is hard walled by heatran unless they tera ground, which means it is countered by corv, skarmory and dragonite.
These are not small mons, this is a lot of dangerous mons that teams struggle with. I'm probs missing things like tusk, which should be the best counter to it but it has to fear wisp. Heatran can do it all. I wish it still kept torment cause that would have been amazing.
 
Everyday I get out of bed and first thing I do is check the forums to see the state of the metagame, with hope it will get better. But it always get worse. There is no hope for me anymore I have been broken, I think my time has come bros gen 9 is over and the sixth floor is calling me a little bit more everyday.
My man, just take a break from OU, or from mons. Every time I check this forum there is always someone posting a doomer take about how Gen 9 is unredeemable, etc. etc. I thought this was a meta discussion forum. Two dozen posts parrotting “this meta is the worst” with no other substance isn’t a discussion, it’s a circlejerk.

If checking this forum is the first thing you do when you get out of bed, that means you need to take a break. Hope you can find another tier you enjoy or another hobby if you haven’t already. Nobody deserves to feel broken over a virtual game.
 
Last edited:
Two dozen posts parrotting “this meta is the worst” with no other substance isn’t a discussion, it’s a circlejerk.
no, no, you don't understand, the real circlejerk is the people who want to balance the meta by banning broken things! this must be the truth because some guy with a high elo said so, and if you can't trust the people who benefit the most from the meta staying the way it is, who can you trust?
 
Could we consider banning Light Clay please? This battle is extremely unfair, and I couldn't do anything: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2061041278-ab0lpo74q6yevv817bg851iggaxej46pw

Also, like wouldn't Finch's latest team lose to this Espeon too? It probably beats Kingambit.
I think you're focusing way too much on the Espeon and not enough before that.

You went:
Turn 1 switch
Turn 2 irrelevant move on a dragapult that wanted to die anyway
Turn 3 switch
Turn 4 switch.

Your opponent got 4 free turns in a row of pressing progress moves while you didn't. I'd address that rather than calling for bans. I personally like skipping the knock off and getting your dragapult back in to prevent the espeon getting the extra calm mind but I'm sure better players can see better lines.
 
Okay, so I've tried block garg and it is alright. You can 1v1 a lot of mons but it runs into the issue of 4mss syndrome. You want all of salt cure, protect, block, recover and a high pp move (I choose bulldoze), but will struggle if you don't have all. If you don't have recover, then you can't complete the trap, but if you do then you have low pp and can struggle against some mons. It is really difficult to pull off but it can be done as I have trapped clod and heavily chipped a ghold in one match, but was forced to switch when my pp got low against the clod.
And yes, this is because storm zone said garg is broken, so I wanted to try different sets to see how it could work, alongside iron moth which they said was underexplored. Haven't seen any reason to change my opinions, cool mons that are probably undderated.
 
A lot of good points are being said, but we don’t need to over complicate things. There’s a really easy way to prove top players don’t inherently have better opinions; if being a top player made you always believe the “right” things, then all top players would agree… but they very much do not do that. This goes for any and all competitive games, really.
 
i would like to see some kind of metagame change. I wholeheartedly agree with the too many threats in the teambuilder argument. I dont know if archaludon ban would be the catalyst for changing that but we'll see. Ill be interested to see what rears its ugly head once the bridge is gone
 
i would like to see some kind of metagame change. I wholeheartedly agree with the too many threats in the teambuilder argument. I dont know if archaludon ban would be the catalyst for changing that but we'll see. Ill be interested to see what rears its ugly head once the bridge is gone
Definitely sun. Gouging Fire's Raging Fury under sun has very limited counterplay outside of switching weathers, and Raging Bolt is also incredibly difficult to beat. Raging Bolt is also quite good in Rain, so Rain might not fall off.

I suspect that most ladder rains will start running CM raging bolt over Arch (if they weren't running them together already).
 
'Make a poll, with these questions( DO NOT ATTEMPT TO ARGUE MY PROPOSITION WITHOUT MAKING THE POLL AND DISPROVING IT THAT WAY WITH PUBLIC INPUT FIRST, WE ARE DEMOCRATIC):
Would you be opposed to suspecting electro shot or damp rock over archaludon?
Would you just like to ban Archaludon blindly without acknowledging its root issues?
Would archaludon still be considered unhealthy without its massive rain support and 8 rain turns?
if you all are not opposed to my idea of testing the damp rock or the move electro shot, please vote do not ban.'

i read the entirety of storm zones essay and since he said dont tag him i wont, tbh i think the idea of creating a poll is great, theres been games where they do that and people love it, those games would never have such great playerbase retention if not for that system. but unfort, i dont think theyre going to do that, they wouldve done it 10 years ago or even 5 if they were going to do that, why would they start now

i 100% think they should make the poll but i dont like him saying if u agree with testing damprock/electroshot, then dont ban archaludon, cos he said if u ban it, we will have a less diverse meta. if u dont ban it, the ladder is already jammed to the brim with people spamming the same 4-5 man cores peli arch barra treads raging bolt and 1 last breaker that differs from teamtoteam cos they know it works, what diversity are we even talking about here, id think myself if arch was banned theyd hve to find a good replacement for the defensive behemoth that also poops out dmg at the same time, wouldnt that encourage diversity if anything

havnt been around gen9 long enough to know abt other suspects for broken things like gholdengo/walking wake, so whatever i say might be a bad take, but ill still say i think u guys not banning gholdengo is so bad, idk wat he meant by we adapted to nicely, yea by sticking heavydutyboots on my 5-6 of my guys?, what if i dont want to do that what if im more comfy with running defog over rapid spin as some1 who last played older gen ou formats, its like im literally forced to run great tusk every team cos thats the only 1 that actually beats gholdengo unless i want to play excadrill with shadow claw rapid spin which every1 knows excadrill isnt good of a spinner in gen9. so im sposed to run great tusk everyteam if i want to play offense/bo to rid myself of rocks which is my fav playstyle instead of balance or stall with me sticking boots on 5-6 of my guys? u can argue i can just use a spinner in the lower tiers but thats bad, i want a competitive team, even if they have a good matchup vs gholdengo they might fare poorly vs other toptier threats in the tier and give setup opportunities to them. defog doesnt work either cos most of the current defoggers lose to the golden blob. not sure what kind of diversity is being promoted, boots 5-6 of my guys hurrhurr for balance or stall, play offense/bo run great tusk every team. just seems to me the ppl that didnt want golden blob banned is just people who were abusing the pokemon and didnt want their ladder/tour success to be cut cos of the banned if anything :)

lastly, its very fun to come here to cope or cry as some gamers would call it about the meta change, but if ppl had any spine, they would just not play till the problems are fixed, as for how to fix the meta, ask the guys who run the tier, theyre the ones who wanted the responsiblity over a video game so that becomes their problem, but polling is definitely a good idea to get opinions from the playerbase instead of just "heres da broken mon, suspect test it then votebanor no" over other options like "maybe we ban the item/move", even tho ngl its probably not gna happen. if that doesnt happen, we just boycott the game till all thats left is a small circlejerk to run their tier with a non existing playerbase and let them feel good about it. its already happening from what i can see, ladder is a lot more dead then it was prev generations
 
Definitely sun. Gouging Fire's Raging Fury under sun has very limited counterplay outside of switching weathers, and Raging Bolt is also incredibly difficult to beat. Raging Bolt is also quite good in Rain, so Rain might not fall off.

I suspect that most ladder rains will start running CM raging bolt over Arch (if they weren't running them together already).
I'm almost surprised i dont see more A-ninetails around, veil is good but if nothing else its a big disruption to both common weather teams
 
Definitely sun. Gouging Fire's Raging Fury under sun has very limited counterplay outside of switching weathers, and Raging Bolt is also incredibly difficult to beat. Raging Bolt is also quite good in Rain, so Rain might not fall off.

I suspect that most ladder rains will start running CM raging bolt over Arch (if they weren't running them together already).
Oh but the brainwashed masses said we don’t know if it’s sun because we can’t have that mindset to say it’s sun next? How do you know?!???!!?!
 
Oh but the brainwashed masses said we don’t know if it’s sun because we can’t have that mindset to say it’s sun next? How do you know?!???!!?!
Are you gonna actually have constructive comments or are you just gonna post low effort inflammatory and bad faith comments. Like seriously many of your comments lately have been nothing but this sort.


Okay, so I've tried block garg and it is alright. You can 1v1 a lot of mons but it runs into the issue of 4mss syndrome. You want all of salt cure, protect, block, recover and a high pp move (I choose bulldoze), but will struggle if you don't have all. If you don't have recover, then you can't complete the trap, but if you do then you have low pp and can struggle against some mons. It is really difficult to pull off but it can be done as I have trapped clod and heavily chipped a ghold in one match, but was forced to switch when my pp got low against the clod.
And yes, this is because storm zone said garg is broken, so I wanted to try different sets to see how it could work, alongside iron moth which they said was underexplored. Haven't seen any reason to change my opinions, cool mons that are probably undderated.
That isn't the typical block Garg set iirc. The one I'm more familiar with is salt/recover/curse/block with I think tera ghost to trap and set up, and tera ghost letting it use curse to trap and remove things (particularly passive mons).
 
Are you gonna actually have constructive comments or are you just gonna post low effort inflammatory and bad faith comments. Like seriously many of your comments lately have been nothing but this sort.




That isn't the typical block Garg set iirc. The one I'm more familiar with is salt/recover/curse/block with I think tera ghost to trap and set up, and tera ghost letting it use curse to trap and remove things (particularly passive mons).
I didn't know that, guess I should have done some research huh. I've been using tera grass to counter water types that would get cheeky and try to hit me hard, but that is probably better.
 

Finchinator

-OUTL
is a Tournament Directoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Top Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis the defending OU Circuit Championis a Two-Time Former Old Generation Tournament Circuit Champion
OU Leader
Oh but the brainwashed masses said we don’t know if it’s sun because we can’t have that mindset to say it’s sun next? How do you know?!???!!?!
Sun is incredibly inconsistent; Raging Bolt is on the radar for the future because it is one of the best overall Pokemon (it is even better on Rain than Sun, it is better on standard offense, etc.). Calling for the archetype to need a ban in the same breath as Rain is tone deaf.
 
Sun is incredibly inconsistent; Raging Bolt is on the radar for the future because it is one of the best overall Pokemon (it is even better on Rain than Sun, it is better on standard offense, etc.). Calling for the archetype to need a ban in the same breath as Rain is tone deaf.
make you wish the tapu's were here this gen XD
 
I'm really happy with how this team is working, it handes rain well and just about every other archetype as well. Meowscarada gives me a little trouble and volcarona is genuinely frightening but otherwise im happy to finally have a decent team that doesnt use unaware clodsire (he'd probably make it better though :psycry:)

:Slowking-Galar: @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Future Sight
- Chilly Reception
- Sludge Bomb
- Flamethrower



:Iron Treads: @ Assault Vest
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Spinner
- Rapid Spin
- Volt Switch



:Iron Crown: @ Assault Vest
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 24 HP / 252 SpA / 232 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 20 Atk
- Tachyon Cutter
- Future Sight
- Volt Switch
- Psychic



:Rillaboom: @ Choice Band
Ability: Grassy Surge
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Grassy Glide
- Knock Off
- Drain Punch



:Samurott-Hisui: @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 236 Atk / 20 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ceaseless Edge
- Aqua Cutter
- Sucker Punch
- Sacred Sword



:Dondozo: @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Wave Crash
- Curse
- Rest
- Body Press

heres a typical rain game.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2061389741

gameplan is really just removing the special attackers and winning the game with curse dozo. works a charm. happy to explain any sets
 
Top