Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4

Hydrapple is amazing and without Kyurem has become stronger, but it is really slow and also fairly Tera reliant to reach its full winning potential. While I think it has become a Pokemon of the A-caliber I do think it requires a greater deal of support and generally requires more deliberate positioning. Though Tera Poison is really nasty, especially with Grassy Terrain in tow; I think it’ll continue to trend up, but I struggle to see how it could really become oppressive.
 
Yeah expert belt is basically the only set I use because of all the reasons you mentioned. Like seriously the fact that it is using worse life orb and you are still doing really well is one of the reasons I want darkrai banned
Darkrai is fine imo, it really hates Zamazenta and Kingambit, the 2 most common mons in the tier, as well as mons like Tinkaton, Ting-Lu, Hamurott, Tera Steel mons, etc. Plus it has major 4MSS syndrome, being unable to fit Knock, Wisp, Focus Blast, Nasty Plot, etc.
 
Hydrapple is amazing and without Kyurem has become stronger, but it is really slow and also fairly Tera reliant to reach its full winning potential. While I think it has become a Pokemon of the A-caliber I do think it requires a greater deal of support and generally requires more deliberate positioning. Though Tera Poison is really nasty, especially with Grassy Terrain in tow; I think it’ll continue to trend up, but I struggle to see how it could really become oppressive.
I think it's OU worthy, but yeah I don't see it becoming a metgame staple. More so something akin to Walking Wake or Enamorus where you see it, but not often enough to leave the lower area of OU usage.
 
Yeah expert belt is basically the only set I use because of all the reasons you mentioned. Like seriously the fact that it is using worse life orb and you are still doing really well is one of the reasons I want darkrai banned
Honestly I think a lot of what keeps darkrai in line is just how tricky it is to switch it in sometimes or get a nasty plot off with all these terrifying breakers in the tier.

Also yeah stuff like zama give it a rough time
 
how is fickle uncompetitive? Its just basically a crit but flavored a little differently
Sort of yeah, sort of no.

Fickle Beam having a Scald rate's chance to go from "This is some reliable STAB" to "Holy Shit, gen 1 Hyper Beam lives on!" is one thing, but it's another thing when it's mental amp is procced when it has a Nasty Plot boost for nutty damage. Also, while the odds of this happening are quite low, Fickle Beam can crit while going all out, so you can theoretically have a 160BP Dragon type move with no drawback, which basically amounts to Showdown screwing you over on a bad day, and maybe a funny twitter clip.

Not that Fickle Beam makes Hydrapple banworthy. I mean, if it was, it'd be on the radar at some point. I'm just saying that I sympathize with the idea that it's uncompetitive, since it could cheese wins. It ain't no damn Kyurem, heck, it's not even as cheap as Bolt i'd argue, but that doesn't make my fruity goat innocent.
 
Hydrapple is amazing and without Kyurem has become stronger, but it is really slow and also fairly Tera reliant to reach its full winning potential. While I think it has become a Pokemon of the A-caliber I do think it requires a greater deal of support and generally requires more deliberate positioning. Though Tera Poison is really nasty, especially with Grassy Terrain in tow; I think it’ll continue to trend up, but I struggle to see how it could really become oppressive.
Hydrapple does have very good potential in the tier since it can pretty reliably stay up and pressure more slow and passive mons/teams. It's hard as hell to use properly but can be done. There are some pokemon that can more or less hard counter it (corviknight comes to mind) but if you build around it somewhat it's in no way a dead slot.

but please don't give people ideas i need to keep him in uu
 
Also, while the odds of this happening are quite low, Fickle Beam can crit while going all out, so you can theoretically have a 160BP Dragon type move with no drawback, which basically amounts to Showdown screwing you over on a bad day, and maybe a funny twitter clip.
all-out fickle beam is already 160 power, with a crit it would effectively be 240

please nobody leak my secret scope lens hydrapple tech
 
Fickle Beam RNG has nothing on Iron Moth flipping a coin on its first Fiery Dance to find out if it sweeps or not.
Hydrapple be playing mario party while iron moth is playing in the casinos xD.

Like seriously fiery dance effectively does the same thing but once you get that boost it is permanent and you get the chance to add even more power on to that
 
Some mons are not suspected because of how "good" they are, but rather what they can do at their heights. Kyurem is one such case where it could run a lot of sets that required somewhat different play patterns to beat, but many of said sets required massive amount of support between adequate hazard removal like Great Tusk (which has defensive synergy issues with Kyurem), slow pivot support, and a proper defensive backbone - and even then Kyurem can end up falling short if it isn't correctly played. Sure Subtect Kyurem might seem broken when you get that match-up into Garganacl and keep Entry hazards off, but then you struggle to remove entry hazards in other match-ups as you will in SV, and end up losing 1v1 to random mons like Moltres or a fully setup Zamazenta that Kyurem itself will have very little practical utility against. I'm sure many players who voted in the last test (particularly on the dnb side) would agree that Pokémon like Darkrai, Ogerpon-W, and Gliscor are easier to slot onto a team while also proving to be more and more consistently useful on a game to game basis due to their innate traits like higher speed, better defensive utility, etc. The vote was close but I feel Kyurem was banned for being able to carry to many hats that required mildly different play patterns to check rather than being stupidly excellent or easy to use in any given role like the aforementioned Pokemon. That isn't to say it was "bad" at a lot of its roles but it wasn't the top of its class at most of them.

Hydrappl being better is a joke but I did see a few teams like the blimax one sub out Kyurem for it and it did have a lot of its own perks like forming double/ triple regen cores with Mola / Gking, more opportunities to switch into threats because no rocks weakness + Regen (although it's bulk is a bit suspect without investment), and a better natural MU into a few threats like Garg.

As for Fickle Beam, the proc rate being 25% higher than crits is a big reason as to why I can find it somewhat "uncompetitive". These are also pre-gen 6 crits so they are hurting a lot more. It would be a lot bigger of an issue if Hydrappl didn't need to setup beforehand to be threatening, but there have been many cases where I just rolled the dice with Fickle vs one of apple's counters and been rewarded with a KO.
I didnt interp it as a joke but apples issue is that without tera as you stated its type is really doodoo but apples fickle beam doesnt really feel uncomp due to it being on a tera heavy mon thats usually somehow walled by physdef corv at +2
 
Hydrapple be playing mario party while iron moth is playing in the casinos xD.

Like seriously fiery dance effectively does the same thing but once you get that boost it is permanent and you get the chance to add even more power on to that
I wouldn't say it is completely accurate, at least with Iron Moth you have the benefit of knowing the turn prior whether you are going to get blasted. Fickle Beam would be a very problematic move if Hydrapple were at least a bit faster than a rock.
 
I wouldn't say it is completely accurate, at least with Iron Moth you have the benefit of knowing the turn prior whether you are going to get blasted. Fickle Beam would be a very problematic move if Hydrapple were at least a bit faster than a rock.
Hydrapple is 14 base speed faster than Garganacl, so it’s quite a bit faster than the rock.
Any notable Pokemon that can use Hurricane effectively?
Zapdos
 
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