You made a lot of overgeneralizations. Speed BE can be used on any fast enough paradox mon. For instance, Roaring Moon often runs BE Attack because of its stats and how it is fast enough to outrun nearly everything with a single DD anyways. However, BE speed Moon is still perfectly good. And so on. There is no good reason to look at the versatility of BE and pigeon hole it into a single boost type per mon just based on what you think is most popular.Okay to address the reply to my section in particular, there are some serious contentions I have here
First of all, speed tier argument only applies significantly to Iron Valiant and Iron Moth (Boulder uses it but it's not much of a Meta influencer atm), who are good but not exactly short of viable counterplay considering they've been off the radar for a while. Every other BE user applies it to an offensive stat (Moon, Bolt) or has to make notable concessions (Tusk takes a power hit by not investing in ATK to make Speed its stat, for example). If the game's speeding up, that impact where Booster is concerned is on a couple mons, not the item, and mostly affects Valiant against HO considering 116 Speed is already a tier where Bulky/Balance/Stall teams have to assume it's getting a hit or two in when responding to it.
There's no "let's be generous" about it with Booster Energy. Roaring Moon is the only mon in OU were BE plays the majority role in its most controversial set (and I'm assuming I'm not out of the loop on people trying other stuff like Choice band more or even some funky Bulky Set or some shit).
Attributing "Broken with, not without" to Gouging Fire and Roaring Moon isn't being "generous," it's literally the furthest the tier history actually allows you to take the argument on its effect on mons.
- Gouging Fire was a combination of its monstrously min-maxed stats and moves that BE certainly played well with... because much like Roaring Moon it plays well as a Win Condition that doesn't pivot around (on said BE sets, it certainly did a lot of other things). If you took away its Corviknight level defenses, the reliable Recovery options, or its spammable 120 BP good-coverage STAB options (to compensate the "eh" 115 Base ATK), the kit that gave it 15 ways to overwhelm the tier is a lot less sturdy. Heck it might fare differently next Gen where it doesn't have Tera to shrug off its set-up turn survival.
- Flutter Mane was banned when Booster Energy was thought to be 50% on non-Speed stats, but my memory is it using Booster speed if any regardless, and the power drop only takes it from "absolutely hilariously broken" to "absolutely broken" in an OU context.
- Iron Bundle barely used it but I doubt a mon with perfect 2-move STAB coverage is reliant specifically on a one-time boost to scare the tier
The Sleep comparison is a non-starter because that was not remotely the same. Yes, sleep is "inherently problematic," which is why it's had a Clause for the entire lifespan of competitive Pokemon (look at Gen 5's version and that nonsense). Booster Energy mons are not remotely in the same echelon of uncompetitive, and the reason Sleep Move clause was implemented was because old Sleep Clause altered mechanics for a purpose it wasn't even serving in SV. "There are some differences" yeah of course there are, like Booster Energy being an item, not a game mechanic!
This was not the mods bonking a mechanic over 2 problem users, this was a long-standing band-aid on tiering policy being addressed when it wasn't treating the issue it was breaking the rules for. No case has been made for Booster Energy being an uncompetitive mechanic (as in taking skill vs chance out of the equation to achieve a winning advantage) that would justify addressing it the same way. Frankly at this point I prefer Sleep Move Clause's effect on the tier, but I lament it happening mid-gen because it keeps coming up as a terrible argument/attempted precedent for other proposed changes like this.
Nor is there a valid reason to claim boosted speed tiers as something that only impacts HO, as if faster mons than Iron Valiant like Ace, Meow, or Pult (or Valiant itself) are never used on slower paced teams than HO. That simply isn't true. Speed tiers impact every team that actually engages with them with even a single mon. So, basically everything besides full on stall.
Roaring Moon in general has a lot more set diversity than people give it credit for. Boiling it down to only one "most controversial set" isn't really an accurate representation of its capabilities. It wasn't that GF suddenly got new capabilities when it was banned. It was that the DD sets were more properly explored by then.
I don't care to argue with you about how much each banned Paradox mon, of which there is certainly more than 2, may or may not have been because of BE, and if so, what fraction of the blame we are hypothetically assigning that. My point was that even if it was only Gouging Fire and Roaring Moon as you say, it would still be sufficient for at least an argument. We banned Shed Tail with only two abusers after it was found that Cyclizar wasn't the only one broken with that move. But more than that, the BE discussion goes beyond only the individual mons just as you claim Sleep does.
The reason why I glossed over the differences between sleep and BE, while acknowledging they do exist, was because the perfection of the analogy was never the point. This is a mechanics discussion. Calling BE only an item ignores all the points that had been made prior in that discussion discussing the very real impact of BE from an actual mechanics standpoint. You can agree or disagree on the alleged health of said BE impact, but it undeniably exists.
Sadly, that's how it goes a lot of the time. The community can be a bit volatile with opinions. Interest in a various topic is also not guaranteed. We have far more engagement from troll bait Uber drop discussions than we did for, say, discussing Gliscor counterplay leading up to that suspect. In the end, people will talk about what they want to.Also I can't believe you all started to talk about Ceaseless Edge for a bit and then just stopped, because you were literally right there and about to find out who is the real culprit behind the Hazard problem
This is just the tip of the iceberg on what Moon can do with the various DD sets.what are peoples thoughts on the bulkier tera ground dd roost moon that has skyrocketed recently on high ladder? it feels extremely strong, especially into para mons, and you barely even feel the loss of acro into val and tusk