Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4

[Ctann]

Has anyone been trialing variations of rillaboom that aren’t just band or terrain extender?

I’ve brought back an older set from a different meta and it’s working really well.. mostly due to x2 resists not being enough for dealing with hammer spam.

Example replay:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2454344732-v96rv96go5pchc9ndlpkhq7yvr6338npw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2454371125

The set:

Rillaboom @ Miracle Seed
Ability: Grassy Surge
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Grassy Glide
- Wood Hammer
- Swords Dance
- Drain punch / knock off / other filler move

The filler can be anything really, drain punch is for end game scenarios/healing and kingambit, knock off sounds good on paper but limited in practice (you lose to most x4 resists even with it, whilst hammer is good against x2 resists) unless this rilla is likely to come out and stay out early. You can also use taunt, u turn, etc.. basically Rillaboom will never beat its best checks, no matter what you run. That dragonite, speedy pecharunt or zapdos isn’t going to struggle switching in.

Here’s a list of what’s slower and OHKOd at +2 and with Tera grass wood hammer, ranked by usage. You can assume defensive sets unless noted otherwise. Often Tera grass isn’t needed with even the slightest chip or non-max def sets.

- [offensive] gambit
- gholdengo
- slowking-g
- [offensive] raging bolt
- Tera for most defensive mobs

Faster threats can often be taken out with grassy glide. Most of the problematic ones like Kyurem, dragapult or cinderace can be KOd from around 60-85% reliably (Kyurem needs to be offensive) Neutral slower threats like Gliscor often don’t need a +2 for the OHKO.

 

[Whaloob]

Has anyone been trialing variations of rillaboom that aren’t just band or terrain extender?

I’ve brought back an older set from a different meta and it’s working really well.. mostly due to x2 resists not being enough for dealing with hammer spam.

Example replay:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2454344732-v96rv96go5pchc9ndlpkhq7yvr6338npw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2454371125

The set:

Rillaboom @ Miracle Seed
Ability: Grassy Surge
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Grassy Glide
- Wood Hammer
- Swords Dance
- Drain punch / knock off / other filler move

The filler can be anything really, drain punch is for end game scenarios/healing and kingambit, knock off sounds good on paper but limited in practice (you lose to most x4 resists even with it, whilst hammer is good against x2 resists) unless this rilla is likely to come out and stay out early. You can also use taunt, u turn, etc.. basically Rillaboom will never beat its best checks, no matter what you run. That dragonite, speedy pecharunt or zapdos isn’t going to struggle switching in.

Here’s a list of what’s slower and OHKOd at +2 and with Tera grass wood hammer, ranked by usage. You can assume defensive sets unless noted otherwise. Often Tera grass isn’t needed with even the slightest chip or non-max def sets.

- [offensive] gambit
- gholdengo
- slowking-g
- [offensive] raging bolt
- Tera for most defensive mobs

Faster threats can often be taken out with grassy glide. Most of the problematic ones like Kyurem, dragapult or cinderace can be KOd from around 60-85% reliably (Kyurem needs to be offensive) Neutral slower threats like Gliscor often don’t need a +2 for the OHKO.

SD with LO has been rising in popularity recently, same with boots 4A. Miracle seed is an interesting alternative to LO but boosting the coverage slots too is really nice and terrain offsets some LO recoil. Do with that what you will. Happy laddering!

 

[Magcargo]

Has anyone been trialing variations of rillaboom that aren’t just band or terrain extender?

I’ve brought back an older set from a different meta and it’s working really well.. mostly due to x2 resists not being enough for dealing with hammer spam.

Example replay:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2454344732-v96rv96go5pchc9ndlpkhq7yvr6338npw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2454371125

The set:

Rillaboom @ Miracle Seed
Ability: Grassy Surge
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Grassy Glide
- Wood Hammer
- Swords Dance
- Drain punch / knock off / other filler move

The filler can be anything really, drain punch is for end game scenarios/healing and kingambit, knock off sounds good on paper but limited in practice (you lose to most x4 resists even with it, whilst hammer is good against x2 resists) unless this rilla is likely to come out and stay out early. You can also use taunt, u turn, etc.. basically Rillaboom will never beat its best checks, no matter what you run. That dragonite, speedy pecharunt or zapdos isn’t going to struggle switching in.

Here’s a list of what’s slower and OHKOd at +2 and with Tera grass wood hammer, ranked by usage. You can assume defensive sets unless noted otherwise. Often Tera grass isn’t needed with even the slightest chip or non-max def sets.

- [offensive] gambit
- gholdengo
- slowking-g
- [offensive] raging bolt
- Tera for most defensive mobs

Faster threats can often be taken out with grassy glide. Most of the problematic ones like Kyurem, dragapult or cinderace can be KOd from around 60-85% reliably (Kyurem needs to be offensive) Neutral slower threats like Gliscor often don’t need a +2 for the OHKO.

I ran AV for a bit. Works as an ok prim / Woger check, but it had some breaking / progress making issues against mons like Moltres, Gambit, etc (particularly bad since my Rocker doesnt beat Moltres). Swapped it for Pads Meow (lures Gambit easy with Low Kick and beats both Zapdos and Moltres with Knock Off -> Rocks + Axel on ths swap). Also helps against Regen mons a bit better.

 

[JackRG]

Has anyone been trialing variations of rillaboom that aren’t just band or terrain extender?

I’ve brought back an older set from a different meta and it’s working really well.. mostly due to x2 resists not being enough for dealing with hammer spam.

Example replay:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2454344732-v96rv96go5pchc9ndlpkhq7yvr6338npw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2454371125

The set:

Rillaboom @ Miracle Seed
Ability: Grassy Surge
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Grassy Glide
- Wood Hammer
- Swords Dance
- Drain punch / knock off / other filler move

The filler can be anything really, drain punch is for end game scenarios/healing and kingambit, knock off sounds good on paper but limited in practice (you lose to most x4 resists even with it, whilst hammer is good against x2 resists) unless th

is rilla is likely to come out and stay out early. You can also use taunt, u turn, etc.. basically Rillaboom will never beat its best checks, no matter what you run. That dragonite, speedy pecharunt or zapdos isn’t going to struggle switching in.

Here’s a list of what’s slower and OHKOd at +2 and with Tera grass wood hammer, ranked by usage. You can assume defensive sets unless noted otherwise. Often Tera grass isn’t needed with even the slightest chip or non-max def sets.

- [offensive] gambit
- gholdengo
- slowking-g
- [offensive] raging bolt
- Tera for most defensive mobs

Faster threats can often be taken out with grassy glide. Most of the problematic ones like Kyurem, dragapult or cinderace can be KOd from around 60-85% reliably (Kyurem needs to be offensive) Neutral slower threats like Gliscor often don’t need a +2 for the OHKO.

This set looks pretty good, some stuff you need to get worn down but far from unmanagable, I've been trying the bulky SD set from gen 8 a bit lately:

Rillaboom @ Leftovers
Ability: Grassy Surge
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 56 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Grassy Glide
- Knock Off
- High Horsepower

I originally thought this set was unviable since post nerf grassy glide is hard to justify as your only stab, but tbh in testing it actually did quite well. Switches into waterpon suprising well and is a solid win condition, especially aganist many offenses.

 

[Whaloob]

I’ve been finding a lot of these Rilla teams a bit difficult to built tbh. Molt, Zap, and Kyu give me a lot of problems with these builds.

I cannot recommend enough the starting 3 of Heatran, Rilla, and Woger (with glide if you want and if Rilla has terrain extender). Coincidentally, I started using these 3 together shortly before someone took these 3 alongside a specs tblast fairy Pult, Zong, and spin + 3A boots Tusk to #5 on ladder—it’s a great team that I feel has stood up well to meta changes since its posting (RMT here), though I prefer building around the 3 with rocks on my Heatran. The synergy centers primarily around Heatran: you put up rocks while not allowing in Tusk or Treads, who are very afraid of Magma Storm or Lava Plume, and even coming in directly on Corv or Geez and putting rocks back up. Glowking cannot scout you if you’re Magma Storm, and Ting Lu will get chipped by Magma Storm or potentially burned by Lava Plume. There is only a small handful of mons that take on Magma Storm (my preferred fire STAB despite the miss chance) with relative ease, mainly Mola and Moltres; Woger comes in freely on trapped Mola which cannot double out, and Moltres is a likely candidate for switching into Rillaboom which allows you to knock it (while having a second priority abuser if Woger is glide, so burn isn’t a death sentence to your ability to revenge kill), while Heatran keeps rocks up with ease. Rilla and Woger both check strong Water and Ground attacks for Heatran, and their priority shores up offense matchups, while Heatran and Woger are both very difficult to wall. Rilla provides both with terrain recovery and allows even offensive Heatran to take an EQ from Treads (75% of the time), Ting Lu, or unboosted Dragonite from full.

The main trouble matchups for these three are Kyurem, Dnite (esp tera flying), Zapdos, Ceruledge with CC, Glimmora, Raging Bolt, Blaziken, HJK Cinderace, and banded Pult. Which is a lot of mons, but of course it is because we’re looking at 3 mons right now. The cheatsheet for finishing out this starting 3 into a team is bulky ground + Kyurem counter + speed control; the given RMT uses Tusk, Zong, and Pult respectively in these 3 slots, and while Zapdos and Raging Bolt can both trouble Tusk, Zong, Heatran, specs Pult, and double priority shore up these matchups well enough.

 

[Ctann]

Here’s a really good demo of rillabooms place in the meta as a wall breaker. I think wood hammer is just really good right now. Personally not a life orb fan because the extra 10% power for grassy glide and hammer isn’t as important as preserving health against hazards. Miracle seed has just enough of a boost.

Here it [eventually] breaks through an x4 resist with future sight support, the first 60 turns are just fluff so you can skip through them.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2454885392-7dxp7ia7gc7h3xkl9xrcx1y984ukfkbpw

-

I’d argue best teammates for Rillaboom right now are actually Glowking and others that can pressure it’s switchins.

 

[Master_Arcanine]

I haven't used darkrai but 135 Sp.Atk is really good, especially with Dark, Ghost, Poison, and Ice coverage? I don't think anything can effectively wall it. Slap a life orb on and watch the carnage unfold...
Or would Specs be better?
I don't have enough experience.

Darkrai @ Choice Specs/Life Orb
Level: 100
Timid Nature
Tera Type: Poison / Ghost
Ability: Bad Dreams
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Sludge Bomb
- Shadow Ball

Seems pretty good to me.

EDIT: Not wall, nothing resists that combination of types (I don't think)

Yeah shadow ball is not good, you need focus blast or you get obliterated by gambit. Also I don't agree with Tera ghost so go Tera poison or Tera dark if you want more damage. If you go with specs drop a move for trick. Only drop focus blast if your team has other counters to gambit. I like life orb more but that's a personal preference and make sure your team has good hazard removal.

 

[TurquoiseLink]

I remember being interested in Gyarados and then deciding Pelipper is just outright better. Don't need a rain team or anything, just switch in on the stuff it checks, then u-turn to Waterpon. Although I liked sliding in weather ball Raging Bolt too.

Weather Ball/Hurricane/Roost/U-Turn.
Heavy Duty Boots
Defense + HP EV's

 

[mcribs]

Today I've got some neat tools that i've been using for the past week or so.

Heatran @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Dragon/Grass/Ghost
EVs: 248 HP / 220 Def / 40 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume / Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
- Will-O-Wisp / Taunt

Rocky Helmet Heatran is a set that Ive been thinking of using for a while. Normally I would just use Moltres but Heatran has some neat techs that help it serve a niche. Rocks for one is huge, with the role compression being really neat to have. Helmet is used here since unlike Moltres Heatran can actually take rocks chip at least for a bit. It really punishes U-turns, Knock Off, Rapid Spin, and still checks Weavile Scizor and Kingambit. Magma + taunt is still decent but I was having more success with Lava Plume + Wisp, since it guarantees the burn.

https://pokepast.es/f55622bfee8f2c3e
this was the team I used to get to 1830s.

 

[Ctann]

Gambit is as cancerous as ever

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2456808965-7fw7hogob2kkd2ymak2ula4e30nbr17pw

This cockroach basically prolonged the game and could have reverse swept at any point, if it got the 50/50 right (post iron head flinch it was primed to steal the game). Hate this mon more than anything else in OU, and surprised it’s still going strong centralizing the meta as it always did.

Literally carried defensively and offensively with a very simple leftovers set.

The TL:DW is basically that gambit almost stole it (and imo should have). It carried hard all the way from 6v6 to 5v2 before the strong swing back.

My guess is people are going to say “fighting types are basically mandatory now, like ground types are”

GF logic: grassy glide is too strong for conditional priority, lets nerf it down to 55 power and terrain should boost 30% max. Sucker punch is too strong for conditional priority, lets give it to a pokemon with excellent typing and stat spread, and slap on an ability to make it 50% stronger!

 

[Magcargo]

Gambit is as cancerous as ever

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2456808965-7fw7hogob2kkd2ymak2ula4e30nbr17pw

This cockroach basically prolonged the game and could have reverse swept at any point, if it got the 50/50 right (post iron head flinch it was primed to steal the game). Hate this mon more than anything else in OU, and surprised it’s still going strong centralizing the meta as it always did.

Literally carried defensively and offensively with a very simple leftovers set.

The TL:DW is basically that gambit almost stole it (and imo should have). It carried hard all the way from 6v6 to 5v2 before the strong swing back.

My guess is people are going to say “fighting types are basically mandatory now, like ground types are”

GF logic: grassy glide is too strong for conditional priority, lets nerf it down to 55 power and terrain should boost 30% max. Sucker punch is too strong for conditional priority, lets give it to a pokemon with excellent typing and stat spread, and slap on an ability to make it 50% stronger!

Yeah, Gambit feels a lot crazier rn IMO, reaching that 2023 dominance I feel. I expected Roaring Moon ban to hurt it more because it was Gambit's best tango partner at breaking its checks, but Moon was also one of the better mons at forcing various Gambit variants in earlier and forcing it to take damage or putting it out of commission. Moon was also ironically one of the best breakers of the Dark-spam cores Gambit found it self on. Since Moon has been banned, I've mostly just been pairing Kingambit with other Dark-types & they are all still great at forcing its checks in earlier and weakening them so our favorite chess piece can sweep later. You can run more boring picks like Darkrai and Samurott-H and be just fine, but I've really like pairing Gambit with underrated Darks like Iron Jugulis and Meowscarada, which can open Gambit up in more interesting ways (and are generally cooler to use than standard shit lol).

I'd say part of the reason Gambit feels better is that most of them are running the bulky lefovers set which is by far the most dangerous because that set is able to grab SD's the easiest and really excentuates the 50/50s with additional Leftovers recovery (and puts it out of some key KO ranges with the additional bulk). That said, most of Gambit's sets are all pretty strong like SD Tera Fighting Low Kick with Lum, Tera Blast Fairy, etc. I also think players running teams with a bit less sturdy of a defensive core (like these Torn-T x Treads teams) also results in Gambit's performance seeing an improvement since it steamrolls most of these teams pretty heavily.

IDK, I kinda don't mind Kingambit as much as the DDers still since you can outplay Sucker Punches. most of its checks are just generally good Pokemon like Great Tusk, Landorus-T, Raging Bolt, Zamazenta, Corv, Encore Dragonite, etc. and the Pokemon itself has a lot of annoying lures due to its prominence which I think is a healthy development (something like Colbur Berry Focus Blast Gholdengo for example, which has applications in other Match-ups, Low Kick Meowscarada - which I still see most Gambit's fall for & also is a good move on Meow in general since its doing 80+% to Kyurem and Treads, Focus Blast Darkrai, etc). I also just appreciate its strong priority and defensive typing for a lot of the various cheesers we see like Latias, different TR styles, etc.

 

[CooolTrainer]

Yeah, Gambit feels a lot crazier rn IMO, reaching that 2023 dominance I feel. I expected Roaring Moon ban to hurt it more because it was Gambit's best tango partner at breaking its checks, but Moon was also one of the better mons at forcing various Gambit variants in earlier and forcing it to take damage or putting it out of commission. Moon was also ironically one of the best breakers of the Dark-spam cores Gambit found it self on. Since Moon has been banned, I've mostly just been pairing Kingambit with other Dark-types & they are all still great at forcing its checks in earlier and weakening them so our favorite chess piece can sweep later. You can run more boring picks like Darkrai and Samurott-H and be just fine, but I've really like pairing Gambit with underrated Darks like Iron Jugulis and Meowscarada, which can open Gambit up in more interesting ways (and are generally cooler to use than standard shit lol).

I'd say part of the reason Gambit feels better is that most of them are running the bulky lefovers set which is by far the most dangerous because that set is able to grab SD's the easiest and really excentuates the 50/50s with additional Leftovers recovery (and puts it out of some key KO ranges with the additional bulk). I think players running teams with a bit less sturdy of a defensive core (like these Torn-T x Treads teams) also results in Gambit's performance seeing an improvement since it steamrolls most of these teams pretty heavily. That said, most of Gambit's sets are all pretty strong like SD Tera Fighting Low Kick with Lum, Tera Blast Fairy, etc.

IDK, I kinda don't mind Kingambit as much as the DDers still since you can outplay Sucker Punches. most of its checks are just generally good Pokemon like Great Tusk, Landorus-T, Raging Bolt, Zamazenta, Corv, Encore Dragonite, etc. and the Pokemon itself has a lot of annoying lures due to its prominence which I think is a healthy development (something like Colbur Berry Focus Blast Gholdengo for example, which has applications in other Match-ups, Low Kick Meowscarada - which I still see most Gambit's fall for & also is a good move on Meow in general since its doing 80+% to Kyurem and Treads, Focus Blast Darkrai, etc). I also just appreciate its strong priority and defensive typing for a lot of the various cheesers we see like Latias, different TR styles, etc.

Nothing new, but I really like Gambit+(Darkrai/Weavile/Meowscarada)+ Zap as a core. Zap+Rai/Weavile/Meow can chip away at Ting, Corv, Zama, or any other Gambit checks with ice and electric coverage. There’s a lot of flexibility between going full offensive with both or using wisp/t-wave/trick to muddy things before Gambit comes in.

 

[Tio Chico]

Tiering survey coming in a few days probably, definitely within this week

Also made a metagame post on some SCL trends here: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/smogon-champions-league-v-ou-discussion.3770462/#post-10714124

 

[Finchinator]

View attachment 777524

Long long story short is we had a council member leave and we just installed a replacement yesterday — waiting on this to click before the survey was necessary.

There are some other details and drama to it, but survey is still very much on the horizon.

 

[EpicGuy321]

Been experimenting with Darkrai. Made a fat one. Mad sheist https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2458017288-w91044fod68etc7se45ums5s8qm1cw8pw

dnite? more like. nitenite. owned

edit: so it’s bulky darkrai with lefties in grass. +wisp

 

[Setsu]

Webs

Been playing webs a lot for a while now, I think they are pretty fun and they can do well into most if not all playstyles. Peaked #2 tons of times but at last could not make it with only webs. Still really love them and wanted to share some thoughts.

I feel standard structures currently struggle with a lot, and it often feels like teams are built accepting to lose to one or more common playstyles. Blimax 6 like teams can be really rough, as Cinderace can Court Change, and Dondozo + Rest Ting-Lu will blanket check most attackers, on top of Sub Kyurem being really hard for Araquanid teams. Choice Specs Tera Fairy Enamorus is often not good enough counterplay against Cinderace teams as many of them have Galarian Slowking, and even Tera Ground variants of Choice Specs can fall flat. Hatterene is everywhere and Assault Vest variants may be content trading with Araquanid. With that in mind, here are a few teams I have been trying:

- Latias + Scale Shot Dragonite Webs
I have had the other non Latias Pokemon for a while. Hisuian Samurott is a Dark resist + Ghost resist + entry hazards in one slot, and a bit of a Water resist, and with Aqua Jet it can OHKO Cinderace after a Swords Dance, so that is one less Pokemon that has to play mindgames around it. Dragonite was Tera Blast Flying + Extreme Speed for a while, as that set does fairly well into Sun and Lokix + Enamorus teams; however, it would struggle a lot against Corviknight which was already not great with Bulk Up Great Tusk on the team. I gave up on this structure for a while cause no 6th was fitting well; Latias however made me revisit the idea. You may have seen Latias on this game at WCoP. What I found it to do, is be an amazing fix against most teams that usually do well against webs: It nearly autowins against Blimax 6 like teams, does well against Enamorus + Lokix teams, Sun, and Boots Zamazenta BOs. Latias is kind of clunky cause it loses some momentum and does not seem to fit well on webs at first, yet it offers a Water resist, Ground immunity, a check to Raging Bolt and Sub Kyurem, and Webs allows it to run Recover over Agility mor easily, and since it does not need to rely on Draining Kiss for recovery, it can run Tera Poison and Aura Sphere. its good matchup against above teams means that Dragonite is free to run Scale Shot + Fire Punch, which is much better against Corviknight Balances. Very happy with this team though it is the weakest webs team as it lacks instant power.

- Darkrai + Tera Blast Ground Iron Valiant Webs
- Darkrai + Latias Webs
The idea of these teams are to avoid pressure from Cinderace by only using Pokemon that heavily punish it for using Court Chance. Darkrai in particular is awesome in webs, as it offers Speed, notably being faster than Cinderace, is a Ghost + Dark resist, and with this set it improves the team's matchup against stall, which you need on a different slot when not running Gholdengo. I think Iron Valiant fits better here as it also outspeeds Cinderace, though that version lacks a Water resist, which means that Rain is nearly an auto loss. The Latias variant in contrast lacks a Dragon resist.


In the teams I had 252 HP / 4 Atk / 204 Def / 48 SpA with a Relaxed nature and 28 Speed IVs. With these EVs, Araquanid always OHKOs bulkless Iron Treads, 2HKOs Ogerpon-W with Lunge, and underspeeds Garganacl and Toxapex, allowing Araquanid to Endeavor them while they try to Recover and let Araquanid faint to Salt Cure or Toxic chip. Ribombee's Skill Swap is still far too inconsistent for me still, and with bulk Araquanid can function mid game to check Pokemon like Great Tusk, Cinderace, and Ceruledge. Big fan of Mental Herb, though Custap is always fine, and Red Card can be annoying and lets Araquanid set up Webs as faster Hatterenes attack it and are forced out.


Webs have been running Speed Booster Energy on these Pokemon fairly often, do not get surprised if you see them.


I still like Choice Specs but really like other variants like Sub Life Orb, Calm Mind, and I know a few Superpower variants were doing fine on ladder. All of these I feel do much better against Cinderace teams beyond Cinderace


Both good mons that have now performed on multiple webs. Storm used a different Darkrai set here. Hope you give them a try!


Glimmora being great right now is awesome, as it gives webs another option for Stealth Rock setter and/or removal, and with Power Herb it is another option for a Poison-type (Toxic Spikes absorber) with instant power, other than just Iron Moth.

 

[AintTellingUNothing]

Glimmora being great right now is awesome, as it gives webs another option for Stealth Rock setter and/or removal, and with Power Herb it is another option for a Poison-type (Toxic Spikes absorber) with instant power, other than just Iron Moth.

Gonna be honest, Glimmora is really good- I've been using a hazard stack team with Hex Ghold (Legit Glim and Ghold are insanely OP) and araquanid for webs


Glimmora @ Focus Sash
Ability: Toxic Debris
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Power Gem
- Earth Power

Gholdengo @ Life Orb
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Make It Rain
- Hex
- Thunder Wave
- Nasty Plot

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Swords Dance
- Facade
- Earthquake

Arcanine-Hisui @ Choice Band
Ability: Rock Head
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Head Smash
- Wild Charge
- Extreme Speed

Araquanid @ Custap Berry
Ability: Water Bubble
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Sticky Web
- Liquidation
- Leech Life
- Endeavor

Hydrapple @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- Energy Ball
- Fickle Beam
- Earth Power
- Dragon Tail

Idk the viability of all of these sets, but I've stuck to what I know works (at the cost of looking interesting)
I'm unsure about what Gholds tera should be (in stuck between water for fire types and flying for tusk, who it has a weird matchup against) however so if anyone has recommendations I'd love to hear them!

 

[mcribs]

I want to talk about some mons that have really caught my attention rn

is the goober that has been flying under the radar recently. its usage has been steadily getting lower until recently where its not even 10% usage. While I do think NP is a good set, I've never particularly liked it as it falls flat a lot of the time if it doesn't have the right coverage against idk a . What I do think can be really appreciated rn are the more "hybrid" breakers.

Darkrai @ Black Glasses
Ability: Bad Dreams
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Sucker Punch
- Ice Beam
- Knock Off

this set I've been using for a bit and its done pretty well overall. Black Glasses + Tera Dark are a massive pain for frailer resists to face, while shredding . Knock really helps in this department as checks are much more susceptible to being worn down and makes up for not having a certain coverage move against and . Sucker Punch also is nice to have as a emergency check to smth like a or a after a trailblaze. Pay attention to the more knock focused


Tinkaton (F) @ Air Balloon
Ability: Mold Breaker
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 24 SpD / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Gigaton Hammer
- Encore
- Thunder Wave

has also been smth that I wanted to use. Typing is still solid and its especially nice to have vs the teams popping up. Mold Breaker + Encore + twave is still great for and . Best get on the train while is everywhere.



https://pokepast.es/8025c0c4daac269c
this was the team I used with them to reach top 25

 

[Whaloob]

While we’re talking about webs and webs abusers, I can’t help but bring up a few of my favorite webs brings. I can already hear Pinkacross in my head saying “webs is a basically solved archetype” and “everything appreciates webs, not everything deserves webs”, and he’s at worst mostly right, but some of these mentions are oriented towards common counterplay to webs (Cinderace, solid defensive cores/fatter teams/regen mons, strong priority, Zapdos/para, Pult, Iron Moth for Ribombee teams, Kyurem and AV Hatt for Araq teams, etc), and the rest are meant as for-fun recommendations that I wouldn’t bother taking to tournaments or high ladder. So without further ado:

NP Tornadus-T

With tblast fairy, nasty plot, thunderbolt, and choice of filler (grass knot, knock off, focus blast, or volt switch normally), you are a webs abuser that deals with Raging Bolt (after tera), Zapdos (before and sorta after tera), paralysis (all before tera, most still after), most fat teams (Clodsire isn’t real, he can’t hurt you), and sorta Kingambit. 145 spatk is no joke either, definitely a capable abuser in its own right. Boots or LO are sensible.

Heatran

This is a bit of an odd one. Most webs abusers are setup threats, and the exceptions are generally things that can just spam the same high power move over and over (specs Enam mainly). Heatran has a lot of positive qualities that are accentuated by webs though. It is arguably the best user of stealth rocks in the tier in terms of its matchups into removal mons, coming in directly on Corv, Geez, and non-HJK Cinderace while being scary for Tusk and Treads to switch into; however, its usual speed tier means that Tusk and Treads can switch directly in on rocks if they’re feeling cocky, which lets them play the spin vs ground move 50/50 while outspeeding you. With webs, non-boots variants no longer get to play this game now that you outspeed them. Kyurem is a big sticking point for running Heatran generally, as Heatran’s quad resist to ice doesn’t go very far when the next turn it clicks earth power and kills you; admittedly Heatran isn’t changed much in this matchup against specs (where it can’t switch moves regardless), boots (where it ignores webs), or substitute variants (when it clicks sub as you come in anyway), but its rocks help a lot with Kyurem and if you find yourself against any other variants, Heatran now outspeeding Kyurem is very handy. Finally, Heatran singlehandedly shores up the fat matchup incredibly well, while being more difficult to revenge kill for various common non-boots threats like Darkrai, IVal, Woger, Hamu, the aforementioned Tusk/Treads/Kyurem, Glimmora, and Iron Crown.

Offensive Moltres

Moltres is one of the best checks to Lokix, Kingambit, Rillaboom, and Cinderace, with a sneakily high 125 spatk stat that it often isn’t tapping into. With webs, it can afford to invest more attention into its offensive prowess with speed and spatk EVs, with nearly perfect coverage and high base power via flamethrower/fire blast/overheat, scorching sands, and hurricane (why rotom whyyy). With webs being a playstyle that is a bit vulnerable to getting snowballed especially early on, flame body is excellent insurance as well.

Onto more niche ones that I do not recommend on any serious builds:

Indeedee

It shores up the priority weakness well (I fucking hate you Rillaboom and I hope you die), and expanding force hits hard. If you’re gonna use this, I’d probably use LO, being able to switch moves is too important here considering both its stabs have very common immunities by the two frontrunners for best offensive type in the game. You will probably need it to tera hog with tera blast fighting/fire or dgleam. Hwish support is a really nice feature for a webs abuser to have though, and STAB hyper voice helps with sub Kyurem; my rec is LO with expanding force, hyper voice, tblast fight/tblast fire/dgleam, and healing wish.

Flame Charge Volcanion

Timid Volc outspeeds Adamant Dnite, flame charge lets it set up a speed boost as some poor fraud switches out, now you’re fast AND really scary to switch into. Can run AV with this if you want. Feels like it’s most of the way to being a decent abuser, and it’s satisfying to use, but realistically there are overall better abusers that cover most of the same stuff Volc does.

And finally, this monstrosity:

Setup Klefki

Klefki with lefties + CM, ID, dkiss, and stored power (and tera fairy is my favorite imo) is either God Herself or equivalent to playing 5v6, no in-between. But, at 60 speed EVs you outspeed Tusk after webs, or 192 for Woger, while fully investing in spatk with a modest nature and dumping the rest in HP. You have prankster defense/spdef boosting setup moves along with STAB dkiss and stored power, while tera fairy makes dkiss 60% stronger (see Pinka, despite what these suggestions might have you believe, I did pay attention in class!) and shares no weaknesses with your original typing despite being one of your original types. One of the main struggles with this set normally is that your fast setup is not complemented with fast attacks, so you are vulnerable to encore into setup or just getting killed before you can attack. Thanks webs!

 

[pika pal]

While we’re talking about webs and webs abusers, I can’t help but bring up a few of my favorite webs brings. I can already hear Pinkacross in my head saying “webs is a basically solved archetype” and “everything appreciates webs, not everything deserves webs”, and he’s at worst mostly right, but some of these mentions are oriented towards common counterplay to webs (Cinderace, solid defensive cores/fatter teams/regen mons, strong priority, Zapdos/para, Pult, Iron Moth for Ribombee teams, Kyurem and AV Hatt for Araq teams, etc), and the rest are meant as for-fun recommendations that I wouldn’t bother taking to tournaments or high ladder. So without further ado:

NP Tornadus-T

With tblast fairy, nasty plot, thunderbolt, and choice of filler (grass knot, knock off, focus blast, or volt switch normally), you are a webs abuser that deals with Raging Bolt (after tera), Zapdos (before and sorta after tera), paralysis (all before tera, most still after), most fat teams (Clodsire isn’t real, he can’t hurt you), and sorta Kingambit. 145 spatk is no joke either, definitely a capable abuser in its own right. Boots or LO are sensible.

Heatran

This is a bit of an odd one. Most webs abusers are setup threats, and the exceptions are generally things that can just spam the same high power move over and over (specs Enam mainly). Heatran has a lot of positive qualities that are accentuated by webs though. It is arguably the best user of stealth rocks in the tier in terms of its matchups into removal mons, coming in directly on Corv, Geez, and non-HJK Cinderace while being scary for Tusk and Treads to switch into; however, its usual speed tier means that Tusk and Treads can switch directly in on rocks if they’re feeling cocky, which lets them play the spin vs ground move 50/50 while outspeeding you. With webs, non-boots variants no longer get to play this game now that you outspeed them. Kyurem is a big sticking point for running Heatran generally, as Heatran’s quad resist to ice doesn’t go very far when the next turn it clicks earth power and kills you; admittedly Heatran isn’t changed much in this matchup against specs (where it can’t switch moves regardless), boots (where it ignores webs), or substitute variants (when it clicks sub as you come in anyway), but its rocks help a lot with Kyurem and if you find yourself against any other variants, Heatran now outspeeding Kyurem is very handy. Finally, Heatran singlehandedly shores up the fat matchup incredibly well, while being more difficult to revenge kill for various common non-boots threats like Darkrai, IVal, Woger, Hamu, the aforementioned Tusk/Treads/Kyurem, Glimmora, and Iron Crown.

Offensive Moltres

Moltres is one of the best checks to Lokix, Kingambit, Rillaboom, and Cinderace, with a sneakily high 125 spatk stat that it often isn’t tapping into. With webs, it can afford to invest more attention into its offensive prowess with speed and spatk EVs, with nearly perfect coverage and high base power via flamethrower/fire blast/overheat, scorching sands, and hurricane (why rotom whyyy). With webs being a playstyle that is a bit vulnerable to getting snowballed especially early on, flame body is excellent insurance as well.

Onto more niche ones that I do not recommend on any serious builds:

Indeedee

It shores up the priority weakness well (I fucking hate you Rillaboom and I hope you die), and expanding force hits hard. If you’re gonna use this, I’d probably use LO, being able to switch moves is too important here considering both its stabs have very common immunities by the two frontrunners for best offensive type in the game. You will probably need it to tera hog with tera blast fighting/fire or dgleam. Hwish support is a really nice feature for a webs abuser to have though, and STAB hyper voice helps with sub Kyurem; my rec is LO with expanding force, hyper voice, tblast fight/tblast fire/dgleam, and healing wish.

Flame Charge Volcanion

Timid Volc outspeeds Adamant Dnite, flame charge lets it set up a speed boost as some poor fraud switches out, now you’re fast AND really scary to switch into. Can run AV with this if you want. Feels like it’s most of the way to being a decent abuser, and it’s satisfying to use, but realistically there are overall better abusers that cover most of the same stuff Volc does.

And finally, this monstrosity:

Setup Klefki

Klefki with lefties + CM, ID, dkiss, and stored power (and tera fairy is my favorite imo) is either God Herself or equivalent to playing 5v6, no in-between. But, at 60 speed EVs you outspeed Tusk after webs, or 192 for Woger, while fully investing in spatk with a modest nature and dumping the rest in HP. You have prankster defense/spdef boosting setup moves along with STAB dkiss and stored power, while tera fairy makes dkiss 60% stronger (see Pinka, despite what these suggestions might have you believe, I did pay attention in class!) and shares no weaknesses with your original typing despite being one of your original types. One of the main struggles with this set normally is that your fast setup is not complemented with fast attacks, so you are vulnerable to encore into setup or just getting killed before you can attack. Thanks webs!

A single minor check, but was your first listing for Thundurus-T? I know Torn-T just rose to UU but every non-shared trait (movepool mainly) I assume this is Thundurus-T given the list of things it checks, Paralysis, and stats (145 SpA and a much more "if I was a BIT faster" Speed tier). Asked given it's a more niche Pokemon and thus I'm curious about its listing with the more "serious" mon suggestions vs the niche ones that follow.