Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

[Eeveeto]

Qualified response = Evil Smogon elite whose opinion is the only one that matters.

General response = Apart from the above, opinion of the unviable plebs , illusion of democracy in Smogon.

Regarding Garg, Shed Tail and Volcarona: None of them are broken in my book with Volc being the closest one. Still I qualify it as a high risk, high reward Mon, there should be some of those in every meta and there are enough answers.

The only Mon that I would Ban right now is Greninja and that's more due to the strain it puts on building than the actual battle (it's hard to use it well and predict, that's the only thing that balances it).

For personal commodity I would also ban Gholdengo, but by itself it's not broken and never has been, you actually need to use Hazard (Spikes, rocks are not enough), Knock Off support (otherwise 6 Boots team will give you a middlefinger) and Tusk/Treads counterplay to abuse it to the fullest and even then you will occasionally be countercheesed by Maushold, Cinderace or Mold Breaker Hawlucha.

 

[JunkoAJ]

The only Mon that I would Ban right now is Greninja and that's more due to the strain it puts on building than the actual battle (it's hard to use it well and predict, that's the only thing that balances it).

This is really surprising, I've not seen anyone talk about Gren as even being that great a mon, just kind of doing the same things Protean Gren has been doing for years. I also don't really agree with it being ban worthy either.

 

[1LDK]

This is where a new variant of garganacl with Rock Slide and Flying Tera Blast pops up to lure volcarona, kill it, and now everybody wants to ban garganacl and everybody is happy ever again, the end

 

[Soiramio3000]

I tried using ursaring with flame orb rest sleep talk earthquake and facade.
I was dissapointed to find out that facade does not increase its power under sleep.

 

[Carl The Turtle]

The only Mon that I would Ban right now is Greninja and that's more due to the strain it puts on building than the actual battle (it's hard to use it well and predict, that's the only thing that balances it).

why gren specifically over meow and ace? I'm not even sure if it's the best of the three at this point in time.

I tried using ursaring with flame orb rest sleep talk earthquake and facade.
I wonder why facade does not increase its power under sleep.

was this really suppossed to work this way?

bulbapedia lists being poisoned, paralyzed, and burned as the trigger conditions, w/ burn attack halving being ignored. sleep shouldn't increase it.

 

[Eeveeto]

why gren specifically over meow and ace? I'm not even sure if it's the best of the three at this point in time.

At least in the current Meta (this might change and has not always been the same), there are more Pdef Mons than Sdef Mons. Look at the VR from S to B+. The only defensive Mons that favor Sdef are:
Kingambit (Restalk, not optimal set)
Corviknight (fine, but not always enough for Greninja)
Rotom-W (best Greninja check that doesn't kill momentum, but has no Recovery)
Skeledirge (weak to Stabs, needs to Tera and forced to check many things)
Ting-Lu (week to Surf and IB, often has no recovery)
Pex (actually good, Extrasensory is still not common)
Clodsire (needs Water Absorb and still takes a lot from Specs IB)
Slowking (weak to Dark Pulse, has to Tera).


Meanwhile Cinderace is checked by every single Water, Tusk (if no WoW) , Garganacl (if no Hjk), Skeledirge, Chomp, Pult (if no Sucker Punch), Dragonite, etc. See the difference? This Mon actually has OFFENSIVE checks (almost all of Greninja ones are defensive) that decently switch into almost any Move. It needs more than 4 slots to severely damage the meta, Greninja needs Specs Surf, IB and Dark Pulse to do so, that's 3 moves, everything after that is a bonus. Thats just one set, but Greninja has a lot more.
Meowscarada is much better than Cinderace (especially due to speed and Knock Off) but still checked by very common Mons like Corviknight, Kingambit and even fears using Knock if there is a Volcarona with Flame Body alive.

Maybe Greninja is not broken, but its for sure is harder to check than the other Protean Mons.

In previous Gen (SM, in which I actually think Greninja should have been banned due to having 2 forms with very different checks and Z Moves at its disposal) it was easier to check Greninja because we had lots of Defoggers (so the damage Greninja did was not as severe) and many Mons (Megas mainly) faster than it. In the current Meta hazard removal is hard, so Greninja does more damage. We also have just Meow, Pult and weather sweepers (Rain even favors Greninja too) to outspeed it. It's better than it has ever been.

 

[UnusualBoy]

I for one don't think Gren is ban-worthy, not even close to be suspect tested, he's just fine and doing basically the same things he did in gen 7 but now struggling a bit more due to the protean nerf.

In fact I think he's underused so far, according to pikalytics, it's the less used of the protean users (when I actually think he's the best) with only 6%.

 

[BolTingBlazie]

Ban Tera or Ban Mons
Many of the recent bans and "on the radar" mons have been notable abusers of Terastalisation.
It's possible that this trend will continue as when one Tera abuser goes, the next best one becomes problematic, etc.
So I thought it could be worth considering how the tier would look if we just banned Tera, and I'm hoping to invite discussion around which of the two paths we want to go down once Home compatibility is out (bc I don't think it's getting retested before then).

Here's my subjective rankings of all the banned mons + a few that the community sees as potentially suspect-worthy.

A) Broken regardless of Tera	B) Maybe ok if we banned Tera	C) Would not be banned/suspect-worthy post-tera

So if Tera were banned today we'd only get Espathra and Chien-Pao back.
However, people are advocating for some of the C-tiers to be banned now, and, when Home releases, we'll get a bunch more B and C mons.
Here's another table with some of the predicted Home releases.
Not everything here, especially in C-tier, would be banned with Tera allowed. I just think these are potential candidates for being broken w/Tera.

A) Broken regardless of Tera	B) Maybe ok if we banned Tera	C) Would not be banned/suspect-worthy post-tera
Obvious Ubers + SS	(LR)

So, with all this in mind, as an example prediction, here's a list of mons we might have to sacrifice for the sake of preserving Tera.

Around 7 mons, which to me, isn't too much.
I think a restriction could potentially lower that number to 3 (pao, espa, leki) which is why I still lean towards team preview Tera as a first step.
Worst-case, though, the ban count could reach up to 16 if all of the B and C tier mons get banned with the intention of unbanning all of them post-Tera.

So, in summary:

• Right now, Espathra is the only Uber banned from OU directly because of Tera. (Chien-Pao is a borderline case but may be manageable without Tera.)
• From the current tier, there are only a handful of suspect-worthy Tera abusers - no more than 5.
• Pokemon Home will add to that list of banned mons - Regieleki as the most obvious example but maybe a few others.
• We will eventually reach a point where we as a community will have to decide between keeping Tera but banning around 5-10 mons, or restricting/banning Tera and freeing around 5-10 mons.

Rapid strike would be banned too regardeless of tera, as swords dance breaks it.

Also I don't like the idea of sacrificing mons because of tera at all.

 

[pika pal]

In fact I think he's underused so far, according to pikalytics, it's the less used of the protean users (when I actually think he's the best) with only 6%.

To also be fair, Greninja is the one we've had for the least amount of time whilst having theoretically the "lowest floor" for performance (as in improper play gives you the least progress) among the Protean starters.

• Cinderace has very high BP moves and the most Offense without a MASSIVE drop in speed for the tier, on top of utility like WoW/Court Change
• Meowscarada gets around Defensive Set-up like Dondozo and has a "Force Progress" move in Knock Off and the potential to lure one of the most common Hazard Removers in the game (which I consider relevant vs straight-spiker Greninja or such because it makes Tusk switching in more likely and thus more chances to exploit can occur)

There is a case for Greninja having the highest skill ceiling if predicted well, thanks to the highest speed tier by a small but relevant margin and easily the best 3-4 move coverage (depending on Spikes or AoA movesets). This in turn means he takes a lot of practice while having had the least time of the three for Meta experimentation, both of which likely contribute to his usage not starting high and taking a while to pick up regardless of how strong he ends up as we get further into Gen 9.

 

[Skyuchi]

Ban Tera or Ban Mons
Many of the recent bans and "on the radar" mons have been notable abusers of Terastalisation.
It's possible that this trend will continue as when one Tera abuser goes, the next best one becomes problematic, etc.
So I thought it could be worth considering how the tier would look if we just banned Tera, and I'm hoping to invite discussion around which of the two paths we want to go down once Home compatibility is out (bc I don't think it's getting retested before then).

Here's my subjective rankings of all the banned mons + a few that the community sees as potentially suspect-worthy.

A) Broken regardless of Tera	B) Maybe ok if we banned Tera	C) Would not be banned/suspect-worthy post-tera

So if Tera were banned today we'd only get Espathra and Chien-Pao back.
However, people are advocating for some of the C-tiers to be banned now, and, when Home releases, we'll get a bunch more B and C mons.
Here's another table with some of the predicted Home releases.
Not everything here, especially in C-tier, would be banned with Tera allowed. I just think these are potential candidates for being broken w/Tera.

A) Broken regardless of Tera	B) Maybe ok if we banned Tera	C) Would not be banned/suspect-worthy post-tera
Obvious Ubers + SS	(LR)

So, with all this in mind, as an example prediction, here's a list of mons we might have to sacrifice for the sake of preserving Tera.

Around 7 mons, which to me, isn't too much.
I think a restriction could potentially lower that number to 3 (pao, espa, leki) which is why I still lean towards team preview Tera as a first step.
Worst-case, though, the ban count could reach up to 16 if all of the B and C tier mons get banned with the intention of unbanning all of them post-Tera.

So, in summary:

• Right now, Espathra is the only Uber banned from OU directly because of Tera. (Chien-Pao is a borderline case but may be manageable without Tera.)
• From the current tier, there are only a handful of suspect-worthy Tera abusers - no more than 5.
• Pokemon Home will add to that list of banned mons - Regieleki as the most obvious example but maybe a few others.
• We will eventually reach a point where we as a community will have to decide between keeping Tera but banning around 5-10 mons, or restricting/banning Tera and freeing around 5-10 mons.

I love how we're already banning mons from post-HOME without that even being out. It's pretty crazy.

No, Heatran will NOT be banworthy due to Tera. Why do people assume a pokemon whose literal selling point is its typing will want to change it? The only thing it will use Tera for is trapping something it would otherwise die to, which is both unreliable due to accuracy and weakens Heatran for the rest of the match. Not to mention it just lost Toxic so trapping means far less.
Ursaluna is a boogeyman given both its STABs have very easy immunities. It will not be a problem.
There's no arguing Regieleki but yeah, who really cares, it didn't contribute anything outside free wins against unprepared teams as-was anyway.
Tornadus-T lost a good number of moves - weather ball, knock off, defog, toxic, superpower...You're throwing in the towel too quickly, and a good Flying type hold a lot of current threats in check. I think it'll be a healthy addition.
Can't really say much about fairy genie but I suppose looking at it, it reminds me of Iron Valiant, and it doesn't look too bulky once you actually hit it. I haven't seen it make waves in NatDex and I doubt it'll be some monster due to tera.

 

[Blitz]

You haven’t seen Enamorus making waves in Nat Dex because it isn’t even legal there lol

 

[Skyuchi]

You haven’t seen Enamorus making waves in Nat Dex because it isn’t even legal there lol

You're right actually, lmao. For some reason I thought it was, my brain conflated it with Random Battles where weirdly Hisuians are in, so I went to see if I could edit my post before anyone noticed. Too late.
Either way I don't think it's very good.

 

[UnusualBoy]

To also be fair, Greninja is the one we've had for the least amount of time whilst having theoretically the "lowest floor" for performance (as in improper play gives you the least progress) among the Protean starters.

• Cinderace has very high BP moves and the most Offense without a MASSIVE drop in speed for the tier, on top of utility like WoW/Court Change
• Meowscarada gets around Defensive Set-up like Dondozo and has a "Force Progress" move in Knock Off and the potential to lure one of the most common Hazard Removers in the game (which I consider relevant vs straight-spiker Greninja or such because it makes Tusk switching in more likely and thus more chances to exploit can occur)

There is a case for Greninja having the highest skill ceiling if predicted well, thanks to the highest speed tier by a small but relevant margin and easily the best 3-4 move coverage (depending on Spikes or AoA movesets). This in turn means he takes a lot of practice while having had the least time of the three for Meta experimentation, both of which likely contribute to his usage not starting high and taking a while to pick up regardless of how strong he ends up as we get further into Gen 9.

Yeah, maybe you're right, we still new more time with it this gen, evaluate more options in his moveset, try new things and adjust it to how the meta is moving. Hope new and good things happen for Ninja cuz I'm happy he's back after 3-4 years without him.

 

[Mega Breloom]

Tera made it broken, it would definitely been a bit easier to handle if you were bring checks and counters and it wasn't going straight to Water / Fairy Tera types

Wasn't Ape banned because fat teams couldn't do anything against taunt+bulk up? Yeah, Tera was nice against offense but the main reason it got banned was that it could 6-0 fat teams alone.

 

[MrE]

Wasn't Ape banned because fat teams couldn't do anything against taunt+bulk up? Yeah, Tera was nice against offense but the main reason it got banned was that it could 6-0 fat teams alone.

Yes, smogon loves stall.

 

[Mega Breloom]

Yes, smogon loves stall.

I mean, fat teams have to do cheap damage until the rival dies, against Ape doing that is basically making rage fist stronger with taunt or rest negating the other options they could use to stop it. Similar to Espartha it basically could just win in team preview if you got the right match up, with tera not having much impact in the end.

 

[awyp]

Wasn't Ape banned because fat teams couldn't do anything against taunt+bulk up? Yeah, Tera was nice against offense but the main reason it got banned was that it could 6-0 fat teams alone.

Eh, not really tera is what put it over the top. If tera didn't exist I think it was more manageable because you can bring out counters, but if you brought out a counter and hit Ape when it teras you're powering up Rage Fist. That's the SAME logical fallacy with Espathra (It Teras when it doesn't like the matchup then you stay in and continue to setup)

 

[coral fan]

I love how we're already banning mons from post-HOME without that even being out. It's pretty crazy.

No, Heatran will NOT be banworthy due to Tera. Why do people assume a pokemon whose literal selling point is its typing will want to change it? The only thing it will use Tera for is trapping something it would otherwise die to, which is both unreliable due to accuracy and weakens Heatran for the rest of the match. Not to mention it just lost Toxic so trapping means far less.
Ursaluna is a boogeyman given both its STABs have very easy immunities. It will not be a problem.
There's no arguing Regieleki but yeah, who really cares, it didn't contribute anything outside free wins against unprepared teams as-was anyway.
Tornadus-T lost a good number of moves - weather ball, knock off, defog, toxic, superpower...You're throwing in the towel too quickly, and a good Flying type hold a lot of current threats in check. I think it'll be a healthy addition.
Can't really say much about fairy genie but I suppose looking at it, it reminds me of Iron Valiant, and it doesn't look too bulky once you actually hit it. I haven't seen it make waves in NatDex and I doubt it'll be some monster due to tera.

I'm not advocating for any of these mons to be banned because as you say they're not even out yet :)
But here's my reasoning for including them in the first place:

Heatran has very few counters - Gastro, Dnite, Slowking, Lati@s, Pelipper and Balloon Ditto are generally your answers. This is of course what makes it the best and most common stallbreaker in like every gen since its release. But, with the ability to gain a Ground resist/immunity or a Water resist or STAB grass/ice moves at will, Heatran will have essentially no real counters. Its trapping set becomes even better than before, letting it trap and kill almost every defensive mon in the tier. Heatran will easily be a top 5 mon in Home meta and will definitely benefit from Tera.

True, its STABs do have easy immunities but Tera Normal Facade will again be an insanely strong stallbreaker, 2HKOing literally everything. Every viable ghost is OHKOed by a predicted Headlong Rush ( ). Tera Ursaluna forces a sack every time it comes in unless the opponent runs something weird like Mismagius. You will be able to revenge-kill it, but I'm sure it will be an effective Tera abuser and so will naturally gain some support for a ban at some point post-Home.

Yeah this one is hard to judge, it's still a really good mon and would be healthy for the tier but Tera can help it offensively and defensively, allowing any team to easily fit a bulky Regenerator of any type. It keeps Nasty Plot and although accuracy is still an issue, it will be tough to switch into and this will be worsened by Tera. I've seen it's the best mon in Natdex right now so I wouldn't be surprised if this will apply to post-Home OU, too - and whilst I'm not convinced yet, it is possible that Tera will be the thing that pushes Torn over the edge.

I agree it's comparable to Valiant but to me its niche seems to be Moonblast/Earthpower coverage allowing it to hit pretty much every Fairy resist super-effectively (Volcarona and Corv are the exceptions, who struggle with Mystical Fire). Tera Fighting superpower, even on mixed sets, will likely be an effective tech to force out otherwise-checks like Kingambit and Balloon Heatran. I think this is least likely new mon to be banned due to Tera but since we've never seen it in a real format before I thought I'd lean on the safe side and include it just incase.

Overall my argument was an attempt to "steelman" the pro-ban arguments by listing as many realistic examples for banworthy Tera abusers as possible. Personally I don't think all of those guys will be banned but the fact is that there will be at least a few more examples of Tera abusers that will get sufficient community support for a ban. Everyone has individual opinions on how they would vote if a suspect were to happen + thoughts on how many banned Tera abusers is too many, so I tried to account for the worst-case so people could see that the number of bans will probably be pretty low - imo between 5 and 10 total.

 

[Alternator]

Wasn't Ape banned because fat teams couldn't do anything against taunt+bulk up? Yeah, Tera was nice against offense but the main reason it got banned was that it could 6-0 fat teams alone.

It can also run ChestoRest instead of Taunt, which beats teams that try to handle it with status and chip.

 

[1LDK]

It has been confirmed that this February 27th we are going to get a Pokémon Direct! With this in hand, time to do some intrusive questions

1) Any hopes for HOME?

2) Any Pokémon that you are hyped to see back?

3) Any Pokémon on the banlist that may or may not change thanks to the new environment?

 

[Mega Breloom]

Eh, not really tera is what put it over the top. If tera didn't exist I think it was more manageable because you can bring out counters, but if you brought out a counter and hit Ape when it teras you're powering up Rage Fist. That's the SAME logical fallacy with Espathra (It Teras when it doesn't like the matchup then you stay in and continue to setup)

Besides unaware Donbozo, which pre-tera counter Ape had? Nothing really liked to switch-in into its stabs since they are unresisted, even if you predicted a bulk up the risk of getting OHKO or 2HKO even by its unboosted attacks could cost you the match. That was really the issue with Ape, yeah, pre-tera had a few checks that could force it out, but for Ape being forced out wasn't a big deal as it is for Espartha which 100% depends on stacking buffs since rage fist is just that stupid. For a good Ape user was easy to kill all the momentum of a rival by just getting it on the right moment since it forced several mind games where the risk-reward was on the Ape user's favor most of the time, because again, just had a real counter (which Ape could beat if RF had enough boost) and its checks really didn't want to switch directly since could get punished by an unresisted stab combination.

 

[MrE]

I mean, fat teams have to do cheap damage until the rival dies, against Ape doing that is basically making rage fist stronger with taunt or rest negating the other options they could use to stop it. Similar to Espartha it basically could just win in team preview if you got the right match up, with tera not having much impact in the end.

I am meme'ing...

 

[SpritePony]

It has been confirmed that this February 27th we are going to get a Pokémon Direct! With this in hand, time to do some intrusive questions

1) Any hopes for HOME?

2) Any Pokémon that you are hyped to see back?

3) Any Pokémon on the banlist that may or may not change thanks to the new environment?

I want Cinccino back. Technician Loaded Dice sounds like a god damn bop of a time to play with as a better alternative to Maushold.

 

[Skyuchi]

I'm not advocating for any of these mons to be banned because as you say they're not even out yet :)
But here's my reasoning for including them in the first place:

Heatran has very few counters - Gastro, Dnite, Slowking, Lati@s, Pelipper and Balloon Ditto are generally your answers. This is of course what makes it the best and most common stallbreaker in like every gen since its release. But, with the ability to gain a Ground resist/immunity or a Water resist or STAB grass/ice moves at will, Heatran will have essentially no real counters. Its trapping set becomes even better than before, letting it trap and kill almost every defensive mon in the tier. Heatran will easily be a top 5 mon in Home meta and will definitely benefit from Tera.

True, its STABs do have easy immunities but Tera Normal Facade will again be an insanely strong stallbreaker, 2HKOing literally everything. Every viable ghost is OHKOed by a predicted Headlong Rush ( ). Tera Ursaluna forces a sack every time it comes in unless the opponent runs something weird like Mismagius. You will be able to revenge-kill it, but I'm sure it will be an effective Tera abuser and so will naturally gain some support for a ban at some point post-Home.

Yeah this one is hard to judge, it's still a really good mon and would be healthy for the tier but Tera can help it offensively and defensively, allowing any team to easily fit a bulky Regenerator of any type. It keeps Nasty Plot and although accuracy is still an issue, it will be tough to switch into and this will be worsened by Tera. I've seen it's the best mon in Natdex right now so I wouldn't be surprised if this will apply to post-Home OU, too - and whilst I'm not convinced yet, it is possible that Tera will be the thing that pushes Torn over the edge.

I agree it's comparable to Valiant but to me its niche seems to be Moonblast/Earthpower coverage allowing it to hit pretty much every Fairy resist super-effectively (Volcarona and Corv are the exceptions, who struggle with Mystical Fire). Tera Fighting superpower, even on mixed sets, will likely be an effective tech to force out otherwise-checks like Kingambit and Balloon Heatran. I think this is least likely new mon to be banned due to Tera but since we've never seen it in a real format before I thought I'd lean on the safe side and include it just incase.

Overall my argument was an attempt to "steelman" the pro-ban arguments by listing as many realistic examples for banworthy Tera abusers as possible. Personally I don't think all of those guys will be banned but the fact is that there will be at least a few more examples of Tera abusers that will get sufficient community support for a ban. Everyone has individual opinions on how they would vote if a suspect were to happen + thoughts on how many banned Tera abusers is too many, so I tried to account for the worst-case so people could see that the number of bans will probably be pretty low - imo between 5 and 10 total.

I could very well be wrong on Ursaluna, and kinda hope I am because I'd love to see a Normal type hit Ubers for things only a Normal type can do, but I still don't see it. Yes, with elemental punches on its side it can 2HKO everything, but it's going to be outsped by everything and it puts itself on a hard timer where it can be switched around or hit with something else to bring it down quickly. It also requires a decent bit of team support and itself is going to have to use Tera to really break down some walls. You have to predict right to be able to take some down (eg Corviknight) and misread predictions really hurt when you're taking burn every turn. It really can't afford to switch into too much because unless it's taking something it's immune to, two hits will really hamper its ability to do more than down one Pokemon only to be revenged by what comes in, and team support to only do that isn't very meaningful. Your opponent can also mess with you via Tera themselves to earn a free turn and punish you.
It's only marginally more powerful than Ursarang was, and while it is significantly bulkier, I don't think it's bulky enough to be more than a gimmick.
It could probably do wonders with the usual dual screens shenanigans but so can things capable of full sweeping teams like Volcarona. I've seen too many hyped super powerful slow wallbreakers become rendered UUBL or close to it to put any stock into any these days.

 

[awyp]

Besides unaware Donbozo, which pre-tera counter Ape had? Nothing really liked to switch-in into its stabs since they are unresisted, even if you predicted a bulk up the risk of getting OHKO or 2HKO even by its unboosted attacks could cost you the match. That was really the issue with Ape, yeah, pre-tera had a few checks that could force it out, but for Ape being forced out wasn't a big deal as it is for Espartha which 100% depends on stacking buffs since rage fist is just that stupid. For a good Ape user was easy to kill all the momentum of a rival by just getting it on the right moment since it forced several mind games where the risk-reward was on the Ape user's favor most of the time, because again, just had a real counter (which Ape could beat if RF had enough boost) and its checks really didn't want to switch directly since could get punished by an unresisted stab combination.

A counter is something that's able to switch in on any of its moves and able to revenge kill it and if we're referring to its Resto Chesto Sp.Def Bulk set, Specs Iron Valiant did that well

252+ SpA Choice Specs Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. 240 HP / 252+ SpD Annihilape: 372-440 (88.3 - 104.5%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO (Probably higher chance to OHKO if SR is out on the field)

Kilowattrel also did that pretty well, especially of SR is out on the field:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Kilowattrel Hurricane vs. 240 HP / 252+ SpD Annihilape: 392-464 (93.1 - 110.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

Gallade as well:

252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpness Gallade Psycho Cut vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Annihilape: 572-678 (135.8 - 161%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpness Gallade Psycho Cut vs. +1 240 HP / 0 Def Annihilape: 382-452 (90.7 - 107.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO (After 1 Bulk up)

Most of its counters have to be faster than it and be able to at least take 1 hit from it and revenge kill it. If you're talking about its 252 HP / 252 Speed Jolly set its worse off with the 2 mons above not named Gallade.

Disclaimer where I don't want you to get it twisted, I think Annihilape is pretty broken with or without tera but I think if tera didn't exist there would be a bigger argument to keep in OU.

Edit, read what the council said about Ape during the ban specifically the 2nd paragraph:

Annihilape escaped most people's sights before the tier was formally released and during the chaos of the first few days, but it quickly emerged as one of the most important threats of the metagame. Rage Fist is a hellish move to face off against, as it forces Pokemon to withhold damaging Annihilape if they don't do significant enough damage to either OHKO or put it out of commission for the rest of the game. Against the common Bulk Up / Rage Fist / Drain Punch / Taunt (or sometimes Rest) set, using weak moves against it can not only make little progress on your end but directly enable Annihilape itself to become a bigger threat. With very servicable natural bulk of 110/80/90 and decent offensive stats, once it gets Bulk Up boost or two while shutting down status moves through Taunt it becomes surprisingly tough to take down and incredibly strong at the same time. Passive sources of damage such as Rocky Helmet or Gargarnacl's Salt Cure (the latter especially against a Water Tera Annihilape) can be very effective against it, but are highly specific and not particularly difficult to overcome anwyay. Annihilape also has access to Stealth Rock and Final Gambit and can be used as a potent and highly forceful hazard lead for more offensive teams, giving it another useful niche albeit not a particularly broken one.

Despite its typing being one of the best possible offensively, hitting every Pokemon at least neutrally, it can be fairly lackluster defensive. This is where Terastallization comes in - Annihilape is one of the best abusers of Terastallization in OU. Most commonly Terastallizing to Water, but feasibly being able to become other types such as Steel, Fire, Normal and more, the ability to change checks and potential stops while changing into a harder to OHKO type on a whim is particularly powerful on a Pokemon as punishing as Annihilape. Reducing the amount of non-lethal damage Annihilape takes or making extremely powerful moves such as Chi-Yu's Overheat no longer lethal makes Rage Fist stronger and lets Annihilape stick around and potentially recover anyway through Leftovers and Drain Punch. This is a very common way Annihilape spirals out of control against teams that don't overprepare for it, and sometimes even those can be very much overwhelmed.