Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

[yNot Mence]

I would like to gather some of your thoughts regarding a specific Pokemon that's shaping the Metagame right now :

View attachment 502348
Kingambit @ Leftovers / Lum Berry
Ability: Supreme Overlord
Tera Type: Flying / Fire / Dark / Fairy
EVs: 96 HP / 252 Atk / 160 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Kowtow Cleave
- Iron Head / Low Kick / Tera Blast

We need to talk about Kingambit.

Who can confidently say they've never been reversed swept by a single Kingambit ?
While this Pokemon in itself seems easy to deal with while building your team, you all know that you won't click Earthquake nor Close Combat safely against him with your Great Tusk.

Indeed, the unpredictability of Kingambit's Tera Type leads to undesirable gameplan conditions that will bait you into choosing the wrong strategy :
- Will-O-Wisp users such as Volcarona, Cinderace, Skeledirge, Rotom and Dragapult are all denied by Kingambit's Tera Fire
- Super Effective Attacks in Earthquake, Close Combat, or other moves are twisted into Resistances by Kingambit's Tera Flying or Fairy
- Defensive Options in the form of Dondozo, Iron Defense Corviknight or other defensive strategies relying on Teracristallization can be overwhelmed by Iron Head's Flinch, Critical Hits and by Kingambit's Tera Dark

While it's true you can force the opponent to use their Tera and then adapt to the Kingambit's variant, it is not difficult for a smart player to first wear down your whole team to put it in range of a +2 Kingambit, and then attempt to set up their Kingambit with a preserved Tera against your would-be check.

Though, Kingambit is prown to Trick Users in Rotom, Iron Valiant and Gholdengo, fears Spore from Amoonguss, Breloom or Brute Bonnet and has to avoid getting consistently crippled by eventual Hazards and sheer burst from Specs Dragapult's Draco Meteor or Gholdengo's Make it Rain.
Kingambit can also be surprised by Low Kick users such as Meowscarada or Kingambit itself, and Choice Specs Iron Valiant is a solid choice to Revenge Kill it due to its x4 resistance to Sucker Punch.


Kingambit seems important in the current Metagame as an offensive option to check Dragon / Ghost Typed attacks, it is very splashable on any team thanks to its typing allowing him to freely come in Defensive Pokemons such as Toxapex, Slowking or Amoonguss.

Over the last 5 SPL Weeks (Post Chien-Pao Ban), only Kingambit has managed to maintain positive Win Rate (above 50%) with a decent top 3 usage and tends to become the 2nd most used Pokemon of this tournament after Great Tusk.

Knowing new Pokemons will be added soon, there's no time for a new Suspect Test.
However, regarding the metagame in its actual state I definitely think it has the making of a Suspect-Worthy Pokemon.

Now I would like to know the following about your thoughts :
- What do you think about Kingambit in the current Metagame ?
- What are your ways to deal with Kingambit in most of your teams ?

Thanks for your attention !

I think you explained Kingambit's influence on the metagame perfectly, so there's not much to add. It's definitely one of the top dogs in the tier right now, and it's a threatening presence that always needs to be considered during teambuilding.
I believe that the main contributor to Gambit's "balance" is the almost omnipresence of Tusk, which is by far the most reliable and consistent answer to it. Rotom-W and Volc are also great checks thanks to Wisp and Flame Body, although they are not as reliable as Tusk (because of Tera Fire mainly, but also cause they fear Supreme Overlord's boosted Kowtow Cleave). I do like Dondozo as a check, but even with its great bulk it risks getting worn down during the match, and since Unaware does not ignore Supreme Lord's boosts it may even lose 1v1 against Kingambit in the late game. The lack of a reliable recovery move also doesn't help.
Overall, my go-to answers for Gambit are Bulk Up Tusk, which works phenomenally even against Tera Flying (unless they already SD'd), Defensive Volc with Wisp and Iron Defense Corvi with Body Press. The only problem with the latter is that Kingambit may often have an EV spread that allows it to outspeed Corvi, therefore not giving it the chance to use Iron Defense and Roost.
AndViet also mentioned a cool Kingambit set that deals with the opponent's by running Low Kick.

 

[UnusualBoy]

I would like to gather some of your thoughts regarding a specific Pokemon that's shaping the Metagame right now :

View attachment 502348
Kingambit @ Leftovers / Lum Berry
Ability: Supreme Overlord
Tera Type: Flying / Fire / Dark / Fairy
EVs: 96 HP / 252 Atk / 160 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Kowtow Cleave
- Iron Head / Low Kick / Tera Blast

We need to talk about Kingambit.

Who can confidently say they've never been reversed swept by a single Kingambit ?
While this Pokemon in itself seems easy to deal with while building your team, you all know that you won't click Earthquake nor Close Combat safely against him with your Great Tusk.

Indeed, the unpredictability of Kingambit's Tera Type leads to undesirable gameplan conditions that will bait you into choosing the wrong strategy :
- Will-O-Wisp users such as Volcarona, Cinderace, Skeledirge, Rotom and Dragapult are all denied by Kingambit's Tera Fire
- Super Effective Attacks in Earthquake, Close Combat, or other moves are twisted into Resistances by Kingambit's Tera Flying or Fairy
- Defensive Options in the form of Dondozo, Iron Defense Corviknight or other defensive strategies relying on Teracristallization can be overwhelmed by Iron Head's Flinch, Critical Hits and by Kingambit's Tera Dark

While it's true you can force the opponent to use their Tera and then adapt to the Kingambit's variant, it is not difficult for a smart player to first wear down your whole team to put it in range of a +2 Kingambit, and then attempt to set up their Kingambit with a preserved Tera against your would-be check.

Though, Kingambit is prown to Trick Users in Rotom, Iron Valiant and Gholdengo, fears Spore from Amoonguss, Breloom or Brute Bonnet and has to avoid getting consistently crippled by eventual Hazards and sheer burst from Specs Dragapult's Draco Meteor or Gholdengo's Make it Rain.
Kingambit can also be surprised by Low Kick users such as Meowscarada or Kingambit itself, and Choice Specs Iron Valiant is a solid choice to Revenge Kill it due to its x4 resistance to Sucker Punch.


Kingambit seems important in the current Metagame as an offensive option to check Dragon / Ghost Typed attacks, it is very splashable on any team thanks to its typing allowing him to freely come in Defensive Pokemons such as Toxapex, Slowking or Amoonguss.

Over the last 5 SPL Weeks (Post Chien-Pao Ban), only Kingambit has managed to maintain positive Win Rate (above 50%) with a decent top 3 usage and tends to become the 2nd most used Pokemon of this tournament after Great Tusk.

Knowing new Pokemons will be added soon, there's no time for a new Suspect Test.
However, regarding the metagame in its actual state I definitely think it has the making of a Suspect-Worthy Pokemon.

Now I would like to know the following about your thoughts :
- What do you think about Kingambit in the current Metagame ?
- What are your ways to deal with Kingambit in most of your teams ?

Thanks for your attention !

Things like Gambit make me appreciate Tusk because without it, that thing would be hella broken and we probably wouldn't King Gholdy brighting our days

- What do you think about Kingambit in the current Metagame ?
It's one of the top threats for sure and it's learned to evolve in the meta hence its huge rise in usage and viability.

- What are your ways to deal with Kingambit in most of your teams ?
Tusk is the best and most reliable option since it can check most of the tera options except the tera one but even that one falls to Ice Spinner. Volc and RWash can deal with most of the variant not named tera fire.

 

[Magcargo]

I hate to admit it, but I am finding Kingambit to be a necessity on a lot of my teams thanks to its critical defensive utility vs key threats like Dragapult, Meowscarada, Gholdengo, etc. Sucker Punch drastically expands its utility too since it can revenge kill an even wider pool of Pokemon. Because its so bulky, it can practically "blanket" check most things at full health, living a hit and KOing back, which also make it a perfect sweeper and recipient of something like Shed Tail. One of the best users of Tera too, since it can use it for defensive purposes. Personally, I like using Tera Fire to check Volcarona (though IDK how well this works higher ladder since Volcarona has outs for this). Its bulk + Sucker Punch makes it one of the best users of Leftovers too since it can rack up a lot of recovery by forcing the opponent to go for useless moves in fear of being revenge killed. Because its so bulky, Leftovers recovery ends up mattering more on it because it will put it out of KO range from neutral / resisted attacks. That being said, its also a great user of HDB since that eliminates another one of its weaknesses, which is chip from entry hazards.

Offensively, this Pokemon is also quite OP. Its ability rewards you for playing bad. Its bulk makes setting an SD very easy, esp when combined w/ Tera. Its STAB combo is also top tier, mainly being resisted by... other Kingambit. However, its low speed is its achilles heel vs faster Pokemon that resist Sucker Punch like Iron Valiant. However, even these Pokemon can lose pretty easily to Kingambit if they don't pack a fighting move since Kingambit can live a Moonblast from full.

 

[1LDK]

(Im in phone so sorry if bad grammar)

Kingambit is something you MUST account for in the building, the common answers to it are also pretty popular mons

From a person who likes BO, my ways out are Tusk, sometimes rotom on a defensive basis and stuff like valiant, moth, volc and bax on an offensive bases

 

[Foufakirby]

I would like to gather some of your thoughts regarding a specific Pokemon that's shaping the Metagame right now :

View attachment 502348
Kingambit @ Leftovers / Lum Berry
Ability: Supreme Overlord
Tera Type: Flying / Fire / Dark / Fairy
EVs: 96 HP / 252 Atk / 160 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Kowtow Cleave
- Iron Head / Low Kick / Tera Blast

We need to talk about Kingambit.

Who can confidently say they've never been reversed swept by a single Kingambit ?
While this Pokemon in itself seems easy to deal with while building your team, you all know that you won't click Earthquake nor Close Combat safely against him with your Great Tusk.

Indeed, the unpredictability of Kingambit's Tera Type leads to undesirable gameplan conditions that will bait you into choosing the wrong strategy :
- Will-O-Wisp users such as Volcarona, Cinderace, Skeledirge, Rotom and Dragapult are all denied by Kingambit's Tera Fire
- Super Effective Attacks in Earthquake, Close Combat, or other moves are twisted into Resistances by Kingambit's Tera Flying or Fairy
- Defensive Options in the form of Dondozo, Iron Defense Corviknight or other defensive strategies relying on Teracristallization can be overwhelmed by Iron Head's Flinch, Critical Hits and by Kingambit's Tera Dark

While it's true you can force the opponent to use their Tera and then adapt to the Kingambit's variant, it is not difficult for a smart player to first wear down your whole team to put it in range of a +2 Kingambit, and then attempt to set up their Kingambit with a preserved Tera against your would-be check.

Though, Kingambit is prown to Trick Users in Rotom, Iron Valiant and Gholdengo, fears Spore from Amoonguss, Breloom or Brute Bonnet and has to avoid getting consistently crippled by eventual Hazards and sheer burst from Specs Dragapult's Draco Meteor or Gholdengo's Make it Rain.
Kingambit can also be surprised by Low Kick users such as Meowscarada or Kingambit itself, and Choice Specs Iron Valiant is a solid choice to Revenge Kill it due to its x4 resistance to Sucker Punch.


Kingambit seems important in the current Metagame as an offensive option to check Dragon / Ghost Typed attacks, it is very splashable on any team thanks to its typing allowing him to freely come in Defensive Pokemons such as Toxapex, Slowking or Amoonguss.

Over the last 5 SPL Weeks (Post Chien-Pao Ban), only Kingambit has managed to maintain positive Win Rate (above 50%) with a decent top 3 usage and tends to become the 2nd most used Pokemon of this tournament after Great Tusk.

Knowing new Pokemons will be added soon, there's no time for a new Suspect Test.
However, regarding the metagame in its actual state I definitely think it has the making of a Suspect-Worthy Pokemon.

Now I would like to know the following about your thoughts :
- What do you think about Kingambit in the current Metagame ?
- What are your ways to deal with Kingambit in most of your teams ?

Thanks for your attention !

hey, (yes it’s me again) I sent you a message on discord.

 

[Magcargo]

Is anyone else seeing Mismagius on more teams lately? I've faced it in a few battles and it can be pretty annoying. If I were to guess, I think its niche is to be a counter to Great Tusk, blanking both its stabs and not taking much from Knock Off due to Colbur Berry. It can completely cripple Tusk with Will-O-Wisp, which most of the other resident Dark-types in the tier don't want to switch into due to either lacking recovery or being completely crippled by burn.

 

[1LDK]

Is anyone else seeing Mismagius on more teams lately? I've faced it in a few battles and it can be pretty annoying. If I were to guess, I think its niche is to be a counter to Great Tusk, blanking both its stabs and not taking much from Knock Off due to Colbur Berry. It can completely cripple Tusk with Will-O-Wisp, which most of the other resident Dark-types in the tier don't want to switch into due to either lacking recovery or being completely crippled by burn.

OHIO FLUTTER MANE
DOWN IN OHIO
SWAG LIKE OHIO
:Skull:

But for real, I have used in the past, around the Chien Pao meta with a Choice Scarf on sun, shit was wild, while not as good as Flutter Mane, it could still do some fun shit, and scarf out speeds the golden Dragapult threshold so its not bad.

Mismagius @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dazzling Gleam
- Mystical Fire
- Shadow Ball
- Trick

It was something like this, I don't exactly remember the tera so let's just say electric to farm hahas

 

[AndViet]

OHIO FLUTTER MANE
DOWN IN OHIO
SWAG LIKE OHIO
:Skull:

But for real, I have used in the past, around the Chien Pao meta with a Choice Scarf on sun, shit was wild, while not as good as Flutter Mane, it could still do some fun shit, and scarf out speeds the golden Dragapult threshold so its not bad.

Mismagius @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dazzling Gleam
- Mystical Fire
- Shadow Ball
- Trick

It was something like this, I don't exactly remember the tera so let's just say electric to farm hahas

I've used Mismagius in December, this was mainly to beat Nacl (Enough HP / Def EVs) where Salt Cure wouldn't break substitute. NP, Pain Split, Substitute, Shadow Ball. I don't know it would work now because of Zoroark-Hisui existing (There weren't much normal types running around outside of Dragonite [Tera Normal]). It also was a fantastic set to beat Non Haze Clodsire (Toxic / EQ couldn't touch you). If I had to fix it, I probably go with a move over Pain Split. But I really liked Mismagius, solid speed tier but overall I don't know if it would work in the current environment of the meta.


Mismagius @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 32 HP / 100 Def / 140 SpA / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Draining Kiss
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute

I lowkey see a Calm Mind / Stored Power (Psychic Tera) set under Psychic Terrain working

 

[Athyestic]

- What do you think about Kingambit in the current Metagame ?

I think the fact that I ran into a Low Kick Grimmsnarl speaks enough to how good Kingambit is, lmao.
The best part? I still won that game. And Kingambit won that game. It's so stupid, I love using it.

 

[Cheryl.]

Kingambit + Pawmot is the funniest cheese I've ever run, you can so easily get the maximum Supreme Overlords and you can play with your Kingambit a bit more recklessly in the early-mid game as well. Really underrated core and Pawmot is a super underrated mon in general right now, one of the better offensive Kingambit checks too even though it gets melted by any boosted hit.

 

[DiscoDucky]

Lol no way, Glimm as a lead is definitely much better than meowscarda. The only real benefit to meow over glimm is taunting Orth not to shed tail for free.

Just run Tera Fire Tera Blast Glimmora. What could go wrong?

 

[Ctann]

I like iron moth as a 4A offense Pokémon that can take some common hits from gholdengo, hatte, etc.

it also absorbs spikes, which is useful.

 

[1LDK]

My Iron Moths are after something like HDB + Agility + 3 attacks when I want it as a sweeper/cleaner, and 3 attacks + a support move with HDB if I want it for utility, the support move can be Morning Sun, U-Turn or Toxic Spikes. And even tho I haven't tried it yet, I wanna see if Whirlwind works to get some memes out of it

 

[yNot Mence]

Glaceon too op pls ban

 

[Local Dog]

To add something here beyond the ol' Glaceon shit post

I think having coverage for water types is probably more important than ever, making freeze dry even better than last gen. It's a very popular tera type and we have lots of water type threats with rather limited access to offensive grass and electric mons and moves. I would go as far and say that water type is the strongest in gen 9, before steel and fairy

 

[1LDK]

type is the strongest in gen 9, before steel and fairy

1. Garganacl food
2. needs to invest in some way to not become garganacl food
3. Garganacl food

SUS

Now that people are speaking about Freeze Dry, has someone tried Scarf ? It has freeze dry, a good speed and while lacking power, might as well be a new meme to use.

 

[Magcargo]

To add something here beyond the ol' Glaceon shit post

I think having coverage for water types is probably more important than ever, making freeze dry even better than last gen. It's a very popular tera type and we have lots of water type threats with rather limited access to offensive grass and electric mons and moves. I would go as far and say that water type is the strongest in gen 9, before steel and fairy

Yeah, Glaceon's access to the strongest Freeze Dry in the game is 100% a point in its favor. Very little wants to switch into it, espicially since a random Freeze could happen. Lots of teams are loaded up on weaknesses to the move. However, it is in an awkward spot rn since Kingambit is on almost every team, which is one of its hardest Glaceon counters in the game next to Chi-Yu and Chien-Pao. Other hard stops like Iron Moth and Volcarona are also rising in popularity. Doesn't help that the meta is transitioning to a more offensive state, which hurts it even more rn than before lol. Still, def not the worst thing I've used and was pretty fun when it worked (which was more often than I thought).

 

[yNot Mence]

Using Glaceon on the ladder for the memes just made me realize how broken Kyurem would be in this metagame. No joke if Glaceon had 90 base Speed it would get banned.

 

[DiscoDucky]

Using Glaceon on the ladder for the memes just made me realize how broken Kyurem would be in this metagame. No joke if Glaceon had 90 base Speed it would get banned.

And that's why we banned Iron Bundle

 

[AndViet]

 

[Eeveeto]

Yeah, Glaceon's access to the strongest Freeze Dry in the game is 100% a point in its favor. Very little wants to switch into it, espicially since a random Freeze could happen. Lots of teams are loaded up on weaknesses to the move. However, it is in an awkward spot rn since Kingambit is on almost every team, which is one of its hardest Glaceon counters in the game next to Chi-Yu and Chien-Pao. Other hard stops like Iron Moth and Volcarona are also rising in popularity. Doesn't help that the meta is transitioning to a more offensive state, which hurts it even more rn than before lol. Still, def not the worst thing I've used and was pretty fun when it worked (which was more often than I thought).

Kingambit is just a check, and so is Iron Moth. Both can be defeated on the switch-in, even without Tera. Volcarona does require Tera Water for that, but still isn,t a hard counter. Look this post in which I explain all the options Glaceon has in OU (Context of the post: I had to lure a Kingambit): https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...king-wake-voting.3712577/page-12#post-9516344

 

[mikeguylol]

Haven't played Gen 9 OU for a while; only played a little when it just came out. I was wondering why Baxcalibur is now considered a strong offensive mon in the metagame now, especially since I think it dropped to UU at some point earlier in the metagame?

 

[yNot Mence]

Haven't played Gen 9 OU for a while; only played a little when it just came out. I was wondering why Baxcalibur is now considered a strong offensive mon in the metagame now, especially since I think it dropped to UU at some point earlier in the metagame?

You can read my analysis if you want, it showcases some points that explain Baxcalibur's influence on the metagame:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/choice-band-baxcalibur-qc-1-2.3718429/

Too summarise it: strong AF with a 145 base Atk, strong STABs boosted by Tera, strong sweeper with DD and also incredible Choice Band abuser thanks to a great priority move in Ice Shard.

 

[1LDK]

Incredibly funny meme
needs more garganacl tho :eyes:

Anyways, speaking of visual pleas, has someone been on the OU spring seasonal? Any mons you have seen lately that have caught your attention?

 

[ant4456]

Yeah, Glaceon's access to the strongest Freeze Dry in the game is 100% a point in its favor. Very little wants to switch into it, espicially since a random Freeze could happen. Lots of teams are loaded up on weaknesses to the move. However, it is in an awkward spot rn since Kingambit is on almost every team, which is one of its hardest Glaceon counters in the game next to Chi-Yu and Chien-Pao. Other hard stops like Iron Moth and Volcarona are also rising in popularity. Doesn't help that the meta is transitioning to a more offensive state, which hurts it even more rn than before lol. Still, def not the worst thing I've used and was pretty fun when it worked (which was more often than I thought).

something I've never ever seen anyone else mention is glaceon has the same special attack as magearna

its a shitmon but i think in lower tiers it is underrated

in SWSH NU with freeze dry basically 3 mons in the entire tier could switch in. Those three were really good, but almost all exploitable by other common mons you could run