Hisuian Samurott having the ability to freely setup hazards in front of Hatterene is always going to be valuable. Aside from itself and Kleavor, no one has that unique characteristic
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion
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Yeah H-Sam may be useful in OU for its spikes and ability to check the ghosts and even if drops to UU, I see it being really good there.
As for OG Sam, the poor thing has nothing going on, useless abilities, bad speed, he's cursed.
As for OG Sam, the poor thing has nothing going on, useless abilities, bad speed, he's cursed.
Besides STAB priority I think there is also credit to be given for Samurott's typing simply being better than Gallade (Resistances of note include Kingambit, STABs from Gholdengo and Skeledirge, and at least one STAB on many higher ranked mons like Roaring Moon, Greninja, Hisuian Zoroark, etc.), so there is some kind of defensive profile to exploit as a Spiker. It's also important to note that Samurott is compressing that "Sharpness Beatdown" with literally unblockable Spikes (to my knowledge it doesn't even block them from going up on a faint from Rocky Helmet or such) for OU, on a mon that threatens the tier's best Rapid Spinner amidst a general dearth of good removal and isn't checked by Hatterene on top of not blocking the Spikes.
252 Atk Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Razor Shell vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 192-228 (44.2 - 52.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Ceaseless Edge vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Hatterene: 109-129 (34.2 - 40.5%) -- 48.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Considering how hard hazards are to get off the field this Gen, something that sets them up easily might contribute more damage to your battle than almost any Attacker overall, even if all they do is stack a bunch of Hazards and then faint while you maintain them. Even then I think H-Samurott's better off than Gallade; besides the above mentioned Spikes help and Priority access, Hisuian Samurott just has a better base Speed Tier to work with than Gallade, being able to outrun Gholdengo at comparable Boosts in addition to the expected getting over Dragapult with a Scarf, and Encore is always a neat trick to have up the sleeve (combined with Taunt giving chances to potentially mess with offensive or defensive targets).
4 SpA Samurott-Hisui Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 392-464 (90.3 - 106.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
4 SpA Samurott-Hisui Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 392-464 (90.3 - 106.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
252 Atk Samurott-Hisui Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Hatterene: 109-129 (34.2 - 40.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
don't mind me just comin on through.
but yes H-Samu is a very decent mon and I definitely think it has a place in OU. Its done me very well overall in the home tours sometimes hosted in the OU room on PS, and I personally think itll carve out its niche in OU. You can run just about any (viable) item on it and expect to do okay and to curve certain MUs.
You can use boots with a slow pivot to ensure longevity, Band if you wanna just click ceaseless and deal a bunch of damage, LO on HO, AV as discussed to check/wall special ghosts and the list goes on!
Furthermore, one thing I don't think people have noted on is its ability to ALWAYS MAKE PROGRESS. its actually crazy how much you can do with it in one game, especially with the aforementioned slow pivots such as slowking to bring it in safely. knock off allows you to get rid of those pesky boots users and force them to deal with hazards, ceaseless edge is just better spikes in that mons switching in are forced to take some form of chip and Spunch allows you to revenge kill decently. the water moves themselves really only have 2 options in Hpump and razor shell, but that's okay. razor shell has a 50% chance to drop defense which softens mons up, and Hpump as seen in the calc above has a decent chance to send tusk to the afterlife and catch other physical walls offguard. And of course we have some of the other discussed support option such as taunt. it also partners well with popular mons such as gholdengo and tusk, for more than obvious reasons, and of course slow pivots let you just do more over the course of a game.
4 SpA Samurott-Hisui Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 392-464 (90.3 - 106.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
252 Atk Samurott-Hisui Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Hatterene: 109-129 (34.2 - 40.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
don't mind me just comin on through.
but yes H-Samu is a very decent mon and I definitely think it has a place in OU. Its done me very well overall in the home tours sometimes hosted in the OU room on PS, and I personally think itll carve out its niche in OU. You can run just about any (viable) item on it and expect to do okay and to curve certain MUs.
You can use boots with a slow pivot to ensure longevity, Band if you wanna just click ceaseless and deal a bunch of damage, LO on HO, AV as discussed to check/wall special ghosts and the list goes on!
Furthermore, one thing I don't think people have noted on is its ability to ALWAYS MAKE PROGRESS. its actually crazy how much you can do with it in one game, especially with the aforementioned slow pivots such as slowking to bring it in safely. knock off allows you to get rid of those pesky boots users and force them to deal with hazards, ceaseless edge is just better spikes in that mons switching in are forced to take some form of chip and Spunch allows you to revenge kill decently. the water moves themselves really only have 2 options in Hpump and razor shell, but that's okay. razor shell has a 50% chance to drop defense which softens mons up, and Hpump as seen in the calc above has a decent chance to send tusk to the afterlife and catch other physical walls offguard. And of course we have some of the other discussed support option such as taunt. it also partners well with popular mons such as gholdengo and tusk, for more than obvious reasons, and of course slow pivots let you just do more over the course of a game.
A fun fact: When Clodsire has tera water, it gets clapped by Electro Ball
252 SpA Choice Specs Kilowattrel Electro Ball (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Tera Water Clodsire: 456-536 (98.4 - 115.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Electro Ball (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Tera Water Clodsire: 470-554 (101.5 - 119.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
These are the only two pokemon that are good with that move, Electrode is just shrafted, It needs Electric Terrain to OHKO a Tera Water Clod with Timid Choice Specs (Hisuian Electrode does the same with Chloroblast, but it needs Grassy Terrain instead).
252 SpA Choice Specs Kilowattrel Electro Ball (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Tera Water Clodsire: 456-536 (98.4 - 115.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Electro Ball (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Tera Water Clodsire: 470-554 (101.5 - 119.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
These are the only two pokemon that are good with that move, Electrode is just shrafted, It needs Electric Terrain to OHKO a Tera Water Clod with Timid Choice Specs (Hisuian Electrode does the same with Chloroblast, but it needs Grassy Terrain instead).
To play devils advocate, going Tera Water against an Electric Type might not actually be the worst play ever as a ground-type if you assume they are going to Tera & hit you with a super effective Tera Blast. That being said, you better be damn sure that you'll be able to KO them back on that turn lol.
Okay then, while the mods are not here, let's play a game, make an interesting topic post and post the most irrelevant and dumbass calc imaginable, the best contrast between the 2 wins
I'll start
Gholdengo is low-key the TRUE most influential Pokémon in the metagame, while not the strongest or the one with the most use, Good as Gold, combined with the Ghost typing has made him the king of the hazard monopoly, while hazards are always a monopoly, they have been distributed to a healthy amount of mons to combat them, now, the presence of Gholdengo is one of the key factors on why Great Tusk is the most used Pokémon in the tier, it also explains stuff like the good amount of Kingambits, the fall of corviknight, lead glimmora, lead meowscarada, and a large list of etc. Gholdengo IS the hazard meta and both Stall and HO appreciate its offensive and defensive capabilities alike to not only keep hazards on, but to also do stuff like speed control, stall breaking, spread status, sweep with nasty plot, or just being a Make It Rain brainless spammer. In conclusion, while not the biggest threat on paper and in the field, the mere idea of him in battle has changed how we approach this vastly new generation of competitive Pokémon
+6 252+ SpA Choice Specs Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Tera Dragon Meowscarada: 2876-3386 (981.5 - 1155.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I'll start
Gholdengo is low-key the TRUE most influential Pokémon in the metagame, while not the strongest or the one with the most use, Good as Gold, combined with the Ghost typing has made him the king of the hazard monopoly, while hazards are always a monopoly, they have been distributed to a healthy amount of mons to combat them, now, the presence of Gholdengo is one of the key factors on why Great Tusk is the most used Pokémon in the tier, it also explains stuff like the good amount of Kingambits, the fall of corviknight, lead glimmora, lead meowscarada, and a large list of etc. Gholdengo IS the hazard meta and both Stall and HO appreciate its offensive and defensive capabilities alike to not only keep hazards on, but to also do stuff like speed control, stall breaking, spread status, sweep with nasty plot, or just being a Make It Rain brainless spammer. In conclusion, while not the biggest threat on paper and in the field, the mere idea of him in battle has changed how we approach this vastly new generation of competitive Pokémon
+6 252+ SpA Choice Specs Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Tera Dragon Meowscarada: 2876-3386 (981.5 - 1155.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Do you really like Overkills so much? There's mine:
+6 252+ SpA Choice Specs Quark Drive Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. -6 0 HP / 0- SpD Hydreigon: 24612-28956 (7572.9 - 8909.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
As a general rule of thumb, you should only post about interactions you have actually experienced in a reasonable game of SV OU.
These are not that.
I'm not saying it's an OU staple or anything, but Tinkaton has some good matchups as a lead. I've been playing with 224 HP/32 Atk/252+ Spd.
Glimmora gets smashed.
32 Atk Mold Breaker Tinkaton Gigaton Hammer vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Glimmora: 308-366 (100.3 - 119.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Glimmora Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tinkaton: 190-224 (61 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Tink outspeeds Glimmora, so you survive Scarf and Sash variants, and any other item means you OHKO.
Meowscarada isn't a threat:
4 Atk Meowscarada Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 224 HP / 0 Def Tinkaton: 71-84 (19.3 - 22.8%) -- possible 5HKO
252 SpA Overgrow Meowscarada Leaf Storm vs. 224 HP / 0 SpD Tinkaton: 111-131 (30.2 - 35.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
32 Atk Mold Breaker Tinkaton Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Meowscarada: 216-254 (73.7 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Max rolls for the one-two cat punch and you're still over half health. Worth noting that a two attacks set (something like Gigaton/Knock/TWave/Rocks) has a decent chance to not activate Overgrow:
32 Atk Mold Breaker Tinkaton Gigaton Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Meowscarada: 190-225 (64.8 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Somebody misjudges your team, and actually leads Hatterene?
32 Atk Mold Breaker Tinkaton Gigaton Hammer vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Hatterene: 218-260 (68.5 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Hatterene Mystical Fire vs. 224 HP / 0 SpD Tinkaton: 136-160 (37 - 43.5%) -- 99.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Gigaton - Rocks - Gigaton kills, and you can survive the two Mystical Fires you'll take in return.
Great Tusk?
0 Atk Great Tusk Earthquake vs. 224 HP / 0 Def Tinkaton: 338-398 (92 - 108.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
Haha you get clapped by even defensive Tusks. You NEED a Tusk answer if you're going to lead Tinkaton, because his set doesn't matter, he wins, and the most you're going to accomplish is some chip. There's an excellent chance that Tusk is switching into Tinkaton regardless what they initially lead, so be ready for that.
Glimmora gets smashed.
32 Atk Mold Breaker Tinkaton Gigaton Hammer vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Glimmora: 308-366 (100.3 - 119.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Glimmora Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tinkaton: 190-224 (61 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Tink outspeeds Glimmora, so you survive Scarf and Sash variants, and any other item means you OHKO.
Meowscarada isn't a threat:
4 Atk Meowscarada Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 224 HP / 0 Def Tinkaton: 71-84 (19.3 - 22.8%) -- possible 5HKO
252 SpA Overgrow Meowscarada Leaf Storm vs. 224 HP / 0 SpD Tinkaton: 111-131 (30.2 - 35.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
32 Atk Mold Breaker Tinkaton Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Meowscarada: 216-254 (73.7 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Max rolls for the one-two cat punch and you're still over half health. Worth noting that a two attacks set (something like Gigaton/Knock/TWave/Rocks) has a decent chance to not activate Overgrow:
32 Atk Mold Breaker Tinkaton Gigaton Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Meowscarada: 190-225 (64.8 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Somebody misjudges your team, and actually leads Hatterene?
32 Atk Mold Breaker Tinkaton Gigaton Hammer vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Hatterene: 218-260 (68.5 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Hatterene Mystical Fire vs. 224 HP / 0 SpD Tinkaton: 136-160 (37 - 43.5%) -- 99.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Gigaton - Rocks - Gigaton kills, and you can survive the two Mystical Fires you'll take in return.
Great Tusk?
0 Atk Great Tusk Earthquake vs. 224 HP / 0 Def Tinkaton: 338-398 (92 - 108.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
Haha you get clapped by even defensive Tusks. You NEED a Tusk answer if you're going to lead Tinkaton, because his set doesn't matter, he wins, and the most you're going to accomplish is some chip. There's an excellent chance that Tusk is switching into Tinkaton regardless what they initially lead, so be ready for that.
While we're (somehow) on the topic of Samurott-H, I already made a post about it in this very thread earlier:
I see Samurott-H as a Perfect Partner for Enamorus at best, with that being possibly the biggest reason it stays OU - otherwise, the power and bulk drop-off from Kingambit is pretty noticeable. (Jolly Choice Band Sucker Punch isn't even guaranteed to OHKO Scarf Gholdengo and you can only switch Samurott-H into Make It Rain once or maybe twice, ouch. At least you can switch Samurott-H into Heatran, unlike Kingambit.)While we're on the topic of post-HOME mons, Showdown's Tours Plaza room held a post-HOME-OU-simulating tournament, and I found this mon to be quite underrated in it:
Samurott-Hisui @ Choice Band
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Ceaseless Edge
- Razor Shell
- Sacred Sword
Samurott-H's Water/Dark typing lets it switch into a surprisingly high percentage of the meta. It resists and/or is immune to the STABs of Gholdengo, Skeledirge, Kingambit, Heatran, Greninja, Volcanion, Hoopa-U, Dondozo, Chien-Pao, and more, and it can dish out the hurt to those it switches into and outspeeds while often laying Spikes at the same time:
252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Samurott-Hisui: 139-164 (43.3 - 51%) -- 5.5% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Samurott-Hisui: 115-136 (35.8 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after trapping damage
252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Samurott-Hisui: 141-166 (43.9 - 51.7%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Samurott-Hisui: 141-166 (43.9 - 51.7%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Volcanion Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Samurott-Hisui: 147-173 (45.7 - 53.8%) -- 45.7% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Volcanion Steam Eruption vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Samurott-Hisui: 127-150 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Samurott-Hisui: 230-272 (71.6 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Samurott-Hisui: 161-190 (50.1 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0- Atk Protean Greninja U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Samurott-Hisui: 156-186 (48.5 - 57.9%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Sacred Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Samurott-Hisui: 298-352 (92.8 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Razor Shell vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 458-542 (118.6 - 140.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Samurott-Hisui Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 314-372 (99.6 - 118%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Ceaseless Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gholdengo: 312-368 (82.5 - 97.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
252 Atk Choice Band Sharpness burned Samurott-Hisui Ceaseless Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Skeledirge: 208-246 (50.6 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Sacred Sword vs. 112 HP / 0 Def Kingambit: 660-780 (178.8 - 211.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Razor Shell vs. 112 HP / 0 Def Kingambit: 205-243 (55.5 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Ceaseless Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 178-211 (59.1 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Ceaseless Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 315-372 (104.3 - 123.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Samurott-H gets access to Swords Dance, Taunt, and Knock Off for messing with bulkier mons, and it also gets access to Aqua Jet for further harassing offence. Samurott-H has to balance carefully between outspeeding all non-Scarf Gholdengo variants and having enough bulk to get 3HKOed by Specs Greninja Hydro Pump, though.
I misplayed Samurott-H against Dondozo (also missed Ceaseless Edge twice in a row that tour) and it got Body Pressed into oblivion, but Samurott-H partners with Enamorus really well due to switching into a lot if not all of its checks, and I might be able to get away with no Stealth Rock setter in my team! (I want to abuse both Enamorus and Hoopa-U, I need to check opposing Enamorus/etc. with defensive Gholdengo, Great Tusk will still likely be the best hazards remover and now it needs STAB/anti-Enamorus/Knock Off...)
Ironically I think the evil otter (H-Samurott) is an amazing partner for Gholdengo. Near perfect switch in typing for both, covered by the other.
I could easily see an offensive hazard stacking core of H-Samurott, Gholdengo, and then something like Garchomp/Hippodon to cover for samurott's electric weakness. Furthermore, while H-Sam's attack stats are flipped, a lead variant can go either physical or special while still utilizing Ceaseless edge and possibly a priority clean up move.
As for Unovian Samurott, there honestly isn't much to say. It really doesn't have a niche in OU that some other water type doesn't cover better. The only gimmick I could see it having is using shell armor + Tera to bait Meowscarda to Flower Trick and revenge kill it. Absolutely terrible idea, but really it doesn't add anything new given its basic typing and mediocre ability.
I could easily see an offensive hazard stacking core of H-Samurott, Gholdengo, and then something like Garchomp/Hippodon to cover for samurott's electric weakness. Furthermore, while H-Sam's attack stats are flipped, a lead variant can go either physical or special while still utilizing Ceaseless edge and possibly a priority clean up move.
As for Unovian Samurott, there honestly isn't much to say. It really doesn't have a niche in OU that some other water type doesn't cover better. The only gimmick I could see it having is using shell armor + Tera to bait Meowscarda to Flower Trick and revenge kill it. Absolutely terrible idea, but really it doesn't add anything new given its basic typing and mediocre ability.
Couple talking points to bounce a little discussion off here; some are a little theorymon-y, some are a little more current.
- At the risk of getting a little too theory mon-y, are there any hypothetical trappers coming back that will relevantly change the meta? Obviously tera ghost defeats the purpose, but outside of that. Like I can see Tran + Taunt potentially beating down Dirge + Pex + Clod (If tran has balloon). Are we gonna see anything like that for Garg?
- Since we have Tera and wayy more dark types right now, (not to mention normal Dnite everywhere), what are the chances of Spectier getting re-tested?
- Everyone knows that Eleki is gonna be broken with Tera, but I haven't seen mention of Regidrago. Base 200 hp with tera steel or fairy makes this thing deceptively bulky, especially if it goes for some kind of AV set. (I doubt this will have real viability since we are also getting Goodra-H, a much better AV abuser, but hey, i thought I'd mention it).
- Loom is still like... really good. I keep expecting it to be super mid, given how basically everything in the tier feels like it can theoretically check it, but keeps performing.
- Do we think Gren is going to stay OU? I doubt it, Meowsc feels like a better protean-er, fast pivot and spikes setter, and battle bond is just... ugh.
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not too sure about gren honestly, I think it has a chance to stay but everytime I want a strong specs water on a team I’ve been picking walking wake, but i do think gren has some merit because of dark pulse keeping ghosts in check (but in a similar vain wake has draco + flame thrower to do the same stuff) so I would say probably not
and as you said meow is a waayyy better spikes setter and it’s an awesome offensive pivot, I prefer sub + over grow but choice sets are still awesome for meow, but gren def feels outclassed by wake especially with the battle bond nerf
tldr use wake
Regarding to Spectrier, if the new move it got was Moonblast, I would maybe give him a chance. But Draining Kiss + NP + that speed and power is too much if it recovers health apart from killing stuff. Tera Blast gives him too many options as well.
I defended Spectrier staying OU last Gen due to the potential it gave to low usage Mons like Umbreon, Regigigas or Exploud hard countering it, but this Gen I see 0 positive things for it to bring to the meta.
The only former Ubers (planned to be released, so no Zygarde here) I would test would be Zamazenta Hero, Giratina-A and Zamazenta Crown, in this order.
I defended Spectrier staying OU last Gen due to the potential it gave to low usage Mons like Umbreon, Regigigas or Exploud hard countering it, but this Gen I see 0 positive things for it to bring to the meta.
The only former Ubers (planned to be released, so no Zygarde here) I would test would be Zamazenta Hero, Giratina-A and Zamazenta Crown, in this order.
Heatran only lost toxic, so it hasn't changed at all, taunt, rocks, flash cannon, solar beam, protect, WoW, its gonna work, honestly, trappers are on the "memes that work" stuff like Tailwind Z garganacl, Hidden Power Ground Skarmory, BU Power Trip Corviknight, so its on that level
Spectrier is getting tera blast now, that means better coverage, the horse is ugly as shit, so I would keep him banned
Gren is still good, stop using spikes on gren, just no, and gren is special attacker while meow is physical, there are very few points of comparison IMO
Testing Zamazenta-Crowned would be a horrible idea. That shit got quickbanned from natdex and we have even less tools to deal with it than they do.
Thats why I said the order. This would be the last one of the 3 and very unlikely. Also, while we have less tools do deal with Zamazenta Crowned, we also have less partners for Zamazenta that deal with what stops Zamazenta (Z Moves are very powerful lures for Zamazenta counters that some smart teammate can use to break them before Zamazenta comes).
I think in this part of your post I miss seeing a VERB. Also, I also hate legendaries, hopefully someday they all get banned without distintion. Until that day comes, though, I will always be supporting the Bans of Top Legendary Mons of OU (see: Heatran or Tapu Lele if they come back) and the retests of some formerly banned ones, like Zamazenta or Giratina (or Zygarde, if he ever comes back).
Its a dumb meme i see
Please do not the +2 calm mind choice specs glaceon
Honestly, i would support the ban of most legendarys, but Heatran is a necesarry evil, you really dont appreciate heatran untill you tank a +2 hydro pump from cloyster
I think Greninja may drop out of OU usage for a bit given Walking Wake and Meowscarada step on his toes for splashability on two fronts, but his actual viability I see lasting at the minimum until Home, given OU still has a severe lack of good Special Tanks/Sponges that can switch into Greninja's coverage (especially with people teching in stuff like Grass Knot)
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