Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

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finch should have the mag verdict up sometime very soon, considering when he uploaded the last respects verdict around the same time last night

I don’t see Magearna dropping to OU unless some reason GameFreak decides last minute to not give it Stored Power. Or Smogon decides to ban Stored Power like they did with Last Respects, letting it and Espathra drop.
Also no stored power won't be banned lmao, the move isn't shed tail/last respects/baton pass level broken, and stored power isn't broken at all
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In the realm of battles fierce and grand, Where strategies clash, where legends stand, I bring forth words, a poet's plea, To question the presence of Magearna, you see.

With gears that gleam, a heart of steel, Magearna arrives with a mystic appeal, But deep within its circuits lies, An imbalance that leaves battles compromised.

Oh, Magearna, you disrupt the flow, With Fairy and Steel, a formidable woe, A typing so potent, defenses so high, Countering you becomes a daunting try.

In OU's domain, where fairness should reign, Magearna's might brings forth disdain, Its arsenal vast, its moves diverse, A versatile force that can't be coerced.

The famed Shift Gear, a dance of speed, Boosting its power with no real need, A sweep machine, it swiftly becomes, Leaving opponents defeated, lost in their sums.

With Fleur Cannon's might, a blast untamed, Shattering foes as its power is aimed, A Special Attack that leaves none unscarred, Unleashing destruction, leaving them marred.

But the issue lies not in its potent moves, Nor in its stats, where strength approves, It's the metagame's balance that's at stake, When Magearna reigns, opponents quake.

For lesser beings, restricted they feel, As Magearna's presence becomes too real, A force that overshadows and diminishes, The thrill of battles, where diversity finishes.

Let OU reclaim its harmony lost, With strategies varied, no line crossed, For Magearna's reign, it's time to cease, And bring back balance, and battles of peace.

So, dear players, let fairness prevail, Let battles in OU once again exhale, For it's through balance and diverse play, That the spirit of competition shall find its way.

tl;dr: Magearna is not fit for OU, banish it to the lower tiers!
I think the Tera's problems can be divided into two parts:
1: The pressure to account for all the different mons with their different Tera types in the teambuilder (see the Kingambit post), and...
2: The in-game mind games

1: The pressure to account for all the different mons with their different Tera types in the teambuilder

This is the one that I see less people complaining about, primarily because its symptoms (losing) can be attributed to playing badly or building bad teams. However, I think this one is the more broken aspect of Tera simply because there's very little way to get around it. When building a team in the Tera generation, you WILL be extremely weak to some Tera'd threat, and it's probably not even a gimmick set. The best you can do is account for the most common Tera users like Garg or Gambit and hope you don't run into something random like Tera Ice Sandy Shocks. Ctann already demonstrated how hard it is to build a team not weak to some form of Kingambit, but there are many common pokemon that abuse Tera and need different checks for different Tera types: Iron Valiant, Volcarona, Garganacl, Baxcalibur, Dozo, and Dragonite are just some of them. To prove my point, I'm going to analyze several OU teams that have been considered pretty good on the Teams of the Week threads.
Slither Wing Balance by mimilimi (wk 24)
Tera Fighting Gholdengo, Tera Dragon/Ground Bax, Tera Fire Dragonite, Tera Ground Iron Moth, Tera Ground Volcarona, Tera Rock Breloom
Choice Band Tera Flying Dragonite Balance by Pinkacross and Srn
Tera Fairy Garganacl, Tera Grass Moth, Tera Dragon Bax, Tera Flying Iron Hands, Tera Flying Bulkarona, Tera Fairy Ting-Lu
AV Slowking Balance by Mimikyu Stardust
Tera Fairy Skeledirge, Tera Water SD Valiant, Tera Water Azumarill, Tera Ice Shocks, Tera Bug Ceruledge

I limited myself to only OU (except UUBL Hands and UU Shocks, both of which are legitimately used) pokemon, and only types on the pokemon that are in the Tera Type Index. Even with those restrictions, you run into a startling number of Pokemon that can win 1v1 against the whole team aided by Tera (relying on bad prediction to beat them is unreliable.) I'd like to emphasize here that these don't need much, if any team support to break these teams if played well. If you notice a theme, it's that Tera gives a pokemon the ability to either set up on something that threatened it or break past a counter or check, which leads right into point 2

2: The in-battle mind games

This is far less of a substantial point but I feel that playing around Tera in-battle is extremely difficult. By virtue of all the different sets it gives everything, you have to pretty much be constantly guessing. For example, say I brought out a Volcarona against a team with Dondozo, Dragapult, and Toxapex. You have to predict whether it's the Tera Grass set, which beats Dozo, Tera Fairy for Pult, or Tera Ground for Pex. If you predict wrong, you lost a pokemon, which means in every battle you must balance the likelihood of the set vs the importance of that pokemon against the opponent's team, but often there is no good answer. If I had, say, Roaring Moon in the back, which beats Pult and Pex but not Dozo, then you would gamble on it being Fairy or Ground for Dragapult or Pex. However, this leaves you open to my Solar Blade Ceruledge in the back, common on the sun teams RM excels on. No part of this is competitive or balanced. However, we've had lure sets that could turn the tables on checks since gen 2's DBond Gengar, what makes this mechanic any different? Two reasons:
A: It has very little opportunity cost. If you have a matchup in which the thing you were trying to lure wasn't there in previous generations, you were down 1-2 moveslots or an item, which are significant. If you have a matchup in which the thing you're trying to lure isn't present in this generation, you can just not Tera and have your Pokemon work mostly as effectively as normally.
B: Everything can beat everything. In previous generations, there were guaranteed safe switches into things like Volcarona. Most fire types, especially Heatran, bulky waters, and some Dragons walled it. Sure, it could run coverage in HP ground or Giga Drain, but those were still pretty weak and took up a moveslot, meaning there was opportunity cost. And even if you didn't have a completely solid defensive Volc check, you could still be sure that your priority Aqua Jet from CB Azu would at least force it out. All those things go completely out the window with Tera. Your coverage is suddenly a lot more scary with STAB on it, meaning it will be used outside of that matchup, and you're never guaranteed your revenge killer will be able to do its job.
I don't think Tera will be a huge deal on Magearna, as its defensive typing is one of its greatest assets and it already covers everything with Fleur Cannon/Stored Power. That said, if Espathra was too much for OU, then I don't see Magearna staying. Dropping it to OU was a strange decision, but hey maybe we'll get a D1 quickban.
We’ll okay.

So if (when) mag is deemed broken in the future will it be cause of Tera or will it be cause it’s natural ability.

I’m asking. Use I think Mag will be a huge decider in a Tera retest
We’ll okay.

So if (when) mag is deemed broken in the future will it be cause of Tera or will it be cause it’s natural ability.

I’m asking. Use I think Mag will be a huge decider in a Tera retest
I doubt the most broken Mag sets would even use Tera, for reasons I explained above. Magearna's sweeping sets only need Stored Power and Fleur Cannon to nuke the entire metagame, and its Fairy/Steel typing gives it more benefits than any potential defensive Tera. There probably will be niche situations where Magearna could benefit from Tera, but it would function so well without it that teams would likely run a different Tera abuser alongside Magearna.


Como me cagan estos qls
is an official Team Rater
Come on guys, its not gonna be that bad, besides, its a steel type, therefore, she gets checked by garganacl, therefore, garganacl is broken
>but the covert cloa-
Shut the fuck up, you need lefties and/or pain split or else you'll die too fast to any decent player with fire/ground type
>but tera
Steel/fairy is too good unless you're in an extremely dire emergency

It's all gonna be fine
Hey, even though I'm more banhappy than most here, I'd be okay with most mons on the slate (including Magearna) being unbanned as long Chi-Yu stays on the banlist. Chi-Yu is just a stupid nuke that adds nothing to the tier aside from going hurrr durrrr big damage. Magearna at least defensively checked many mons and has new checks like Skeledirge, Iron Moth, Clodsire, and Tera Fire Wallbreakers. Other mons on the slate, if they're broken, will probably deservedly be banned in due time. We don't need to spend any more time on testing Chi-Yu, which was an utter cancer to OU when it was around.
mag is going to be so busted
it's like greninja on steroids
hits too hard, pivots, lays spikes
greninja has slightly better offensive typing, speed, and protean while magearna has defensive value and a solid typing, as well as setup
you either nuke stuff with specs or set up with calm mind and nuke stuff as if specs
its specs set is no longer remotely wallable with Tera
all the good grounds besides clodsire (and clodsire doesn't wanna switch in on TB ground) don't want to switch in because they get nuked by fleur cannon
even if it doesn't wanna commit to tera or is using fairy tera for the nuke power it can just pivot out or lay spikes
also skeledirge isn't a check b/c it can do this
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fairy Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Skeledirge: 202-238 (49.1 - 57.9%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO
iron moth and clod are also cleanly 3HKO'd
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fairy Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 168-198 (36.2 - 42.7%) -- 97.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fairy Magearna Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Iron Moth: 99-117 (32.8 - 38.8%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO
and they all get nuked regardless with tblast ground
going to be the progress forcer of all time
it's like tusk, gambit, and clefable combined
great offensive and defensive value, low speed, weirdly good movepool, setup, great typing, great ability, great everything
all of the "checks" its specs set has die to volt switch or tb ground
amoongus is 2hko'd, slowking avoids the 2HKO with assault vest and max spdef but takes 40% from volt switch, toxapex is 2hko'd through vest
blissey is the only reliable specs "counter", even though it can't be under 80% for fear of dying to two TIMID specs tera fairy fleur cannons with no spdef investment
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I can't wait to be able to use Magearna once again !
If Magearna was around during the Shed Tail meta it would have been total chaos, I almost wished I could play a metagame like that for a day haha.

But more seriously I'm happy she was given a chance once again especially with the power creep each gen and the fact that she won't be able to use Z-moves anymore. I'm pretty sure Tera is going to make Magearna broken but I wonder if she would be fine in a Tera less meta with Skeledirge and Clodsire being pretty consistent answers.

Also I'm glad that I'll be able to use another good Trick Room setter even though it's a terrible playstyle
OU’s heavy hitters can barely deal with hatterene and its weak 50 BP draining kiss augmented by a trivial defensive statline and punitive psychic typing.

one calm mind from magearna and it’s kisses will be demolishing entire teams of dragonite, valiant, baxcalibur, roaring moon, et. al.

unlike Hatte, magearna doesn’t [innately] underspeed kingambit, and doesn’t GAF about Gholdengo. It can still take a ground hit from anything that is comfortable switching in on it, if it absolutely has to.

and CM might not even be it’s best set. OU isn’t really super well equipped to take 130 BP Stab fairy type attacks from 130 Spa. There’s probably a whole list of other viable sets that might be top dog bunny.

who’s keen to see how calm mind + shift gear Mag makes stored power great again.
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CM Magearna is not hard to stop, just like Shift Gear or Trick Room. If it was for these sets, Magearna would easily remain OU, despite being one of the best Mons there.
It's Specs set the one that will make Magearna broken. It has too many options for coverage and the few Mons that somehow avoid the 2HKO are crippled by Trick. I do think the situation (even with Tera, which can go both ways) is better than in SS:
-Clodsire eats most moves and can be used with Black Sludge to fuck Trick (this would mean you commiting for Clod to not use Tera, however)
-Gholdengo eats most moves too and isn't crippled by Trick.
-Blissey is only crippled by Trick (also smashed by CM, but that set is easier to check with teammates)
-Iron Treads blocks Volt Switch and eats everything except Focus Blast, Tera Blast or Trick. It's like Sdef Excadrill in SS, which was a good check.
-Toxapex, Amoonguss and both Slowkings can be good AV users, tanking everything and not suffering from Trick.
-Finally we have a lot of good Special Fire Mons this time. These are only weak to Tera Blast and don't suffer from Trick (too much). Skeledirge, Heatran, Volcarona, Iron Moth, Hisuian Typhlosion, ugly Armarouge and even Rotom-H could make a comeback if he recovers Pain Split. All of these Mons can become a threat if they receive a Specs.

Magearna will also bring some positive things to OU, like being a good TR user and a Chien Pao check.

I do think however that eventually it will break OU and end up banned, since it really has too many options that will allow it to overcome any check. This post was just to show that Magearna isn't as obviously broken as it was in SS since the options to check it are more and meta is better prepared for it.
Ima be honest, I'm kinda excited for magearn. We've already got so many powerful Pokémon running around anyways ( ghold, gambit, volc, d-nite, ect ) magearn might actually balance the meta a bit. It helps with gambit, one of the meta's biggest threats right now, and :iron valiant: too suffers from magearna, so magearn I think will be a positive one, not a negative one
In anticipation for Magearna's arrival I want y'all to say at least one nice thing about her. I'll start:

One nice specific thing about Magearna and its lore is that it's like the ultimate multitasker of the Pokémon world. Not only is it a magnificent Mythical Pokémon with a unique Steel/Fairy typing, but it's also equipped with a built-in tea set! Talk about being prepared for a party at all times!

Imagine this scenario: You're exploring a mysterious dungeon, battling tough trainers and wild Pokémon left and right. Suddenly, you feel exhausted and in desperate need of a break. That's when Magearna comes to the rescue! It gracefully transforms its body into a charming tea tray, complete with delicate cups and a steaming kettle. It's like having your very own personal butler on the go!

So there you are, sipping a hot cup of tea in the midst of an epic adventure, surrounded by your Pokémon companions, and feeling rejuvenated by the magical flavors of Magearna's tea. It's the perfect blend of comfort and whimsy, and it's all thanks to this marvelous automaton.

Not only does Magearna bring power and grace to battles, but it's also a tasteful companion, making sure you never miss your teatime, no matter how chaotic life gets. It's a Pokémon with the uncanny ability to brew up smiles and warm hearts, one cup of tea at a time. Who knew a robotic Pokémon could also double as a tea connoisseur?

tl;dr: prepare the tea, since OU's gonna have quite the tea party very soon, with robotic maids abound!
Magearna will start the post-HOME metagame as legal in SV OU:

brace yourselves
Welp I doubt this is ending well...

Anyway I am kinda hoping we get the vote on Zamazenta-Hero or Chien Pao soon revealed, or one of the ones that is very blatantly gonna start uber like Lando-I, Spectrier, Iron Bundle or Flutter Mane since nobody in their right mind wants them back in OU
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excellent prediction.

Seriously though, I don't see it being healthy. Nasty Plot + SF LO Boosted attacks will rip through the entire tier, esp since it has natural coverage for the triple unaware core (EP + Grass Knot). Tera Flying Clodsire and Skeledirge could check it, except I honestly think beyond Earth Power and Sludge wave it can run whatever the fuck it wants, so Taunt will 1v1 normal Clodsire and force Skeledirge to remain basically at full to hope to stop it. Fat teams will be rolled over by him, bigstall aside Ape was banned for its fat/stall mu so Lando-I probably will too.
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